Defence-First Football Tactics

[OYTNANAK]

On 09/04/2024 at 02:39, HanziZoloman said:

Your tactic looks great for an underdog, just plain and clear. Would you also play the wide men in AML/AMR? 
would you explain some of your thoughts when creating this tactic?
It’s for the learning lesions. 

Thank you 

I created this tactic using 4-4-1-1 (or 4-4-2 at times) because of Sean Dyche's Everton (not a tactical recreation though, just inspired). The reason why I don't play my wide men in AM strata is because there aren't roles that I am looking for. And besides that, placing my wide men in AM strata will push them up more out of possession. I feel like WM(su) or DW(su) is important in my Everton side as I require the defensive work the roles provide and I have the players for it. Renato Veiga and Dwight McNeil as WM(su), and Dan James (yep, Dan James) as my DW(su). And from what I see in recent times, many football teams (for example: Sean Dyche's Everton) are not afraid to challenge their opponents when they try to build up from the back, hence the use of 'Prevent Short GK Distribution'. The risk is that my 'high press' at that moment gets bypassed and I have less men behind the ball. But, when the press is successful, a dangerous turnover and things like this can happen.

Spoiler

Picture 1. Man City were trying to play out from the back, my players were ready to disrupt their attempt.

 

Picture 2. Danjuma quickly shadow marked their RB (Kyle Walker), forcing Stones to play a risky ball to their RCM (Matheus Nunes, marked by my LCM (Doucoure).

 

Picture 3. Danjuma tackled Nunes, Doucoure got the ball and struck it from +- 30 m. Beautiful goal! 

 

The result:

Man City were using Foden as F9 instead of Haaland. My OI for him was to never tight mark him, since I didn't want my line of back 4 to get dragged by Foden.

 

On 11/04/2024 at 02:11, HanziZoloman said:

Here is another defense first approach which is strongly influenced by @OYTNANAK. In fact I just pushed the wingmen up and switch the TF with an AF sometimes, also some PI's slightly different. It works like a charm, thanks @OYTNANAK 

shot! I forget, the defenceline looks different, too

Hey, I'm glad if it works for you! 

Edited April 15 by OYTNANAK

[HanziZoloman]

vor einer Stunde schrieb OYTNANAK:

I created this tactic using 4-4-1-1 (or 4-4-2 at times) because of Sean Dyche's Everton (not a tactical recreation though, just inspired). The reason why I don't play my wide men in AM strata is because there aren't roles that I am looking for. And besides that, placing my wide men in AM strata will push them up more out of possession. I feel like WM(su) or DW(su) is important in my Everton side as I require the defensive work the roles provide and I have the players for it. Renato Veiga and Dwight McNeil as WM(su), and Dan James (yep, Dan James) as my DW(su). And from what I see in recent times, many football teams (for example: Sean Dyche's Everton) are not afraid to challenge their opponents when they try to build up from the back, hence the use of 'Prevent Short GK Distribution'. The risk is that my 'high press' at that moment gets bypassed and I have less men behind the ball. But, when the press is successful, a dangerous turnover and things like this can happen.

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

Picture 1. Man City were trying to play out from the back, my players were ready to disrupt their attempt.

 

Picture 2. Danjuma quickly shadow marked their RB (Kyle Walker), forcing Stones to play a risky ball to their RCM (Matheus Nunes, marked by my LCM (Doucoure).

 

Picture 3. Danjuma tackled Nunes, Doucoure got the ball and struck it from +- 30 m. Beautiful goal! 

 

The result:

Man City were using Foden as F9 instead of Haaland. My OI for him was to never tight mark him, since I didn't want my line of back 4 to get dragged by Foden.

 

Hey, I'm glad if it works for you! 

Thanks for all the insight

[AceCream]

I really love simple, intuitive and defensively-minded tactical styles and formations so this thread has been a revelation to me. Thank you @crusadertsar and everybody who has contributed!

Over in the Calcio thread on the Good Player and Team Guide sub-forum I summarized my first season managing Bologna using a fluid counter attacking style. But I want to go into a bit more detail behind the tactics here, if I may. 

I wanted to emulate the how Bologna are playing in real life today. Thiago Motta plays a very fluid-defensive-possession-based approach for lack of a better word. So naturally, I decided to use the Fluid Counter-Attack tactical style with defensively-minded roles and enough support duties so that the Team Fluidity label was always at least Fluid or Flexible but preferably Very Fluid. My thought process was to start off with a cautious tactical style and use that for a few months before introducing more possession based instructions like playing out from the back and working the ball into box. 

I started with the 4-3-3 but changed to the 4-2-3-1 after having difficulties with positional play in the former. In both formations, I wanted to create the popular 3-2 build-up shape when in possession. I started off by using Calafiori as a Libero that would move into the DM position while in possession. I adore Calafiori in this game, and am excited to use him as a libero, BPD, inverted wing back or full back. A really complete player. 

Spoiler

However, when playing the 4-3-3, I found the DM and the right-sided midfielder (BWM) were always running into each other. 

So I opted for a 4-2-3-1 with a DM double pivot and the right-sided full-back inverting with a wingback on the left side. This also got the most out of left wing-back Kristiansen and Lewis Ferguson, who I played as a Shadow Striker in the AMC position. 

Spoiler

 

I kept with this formation and roles until tactical familiarity was 100% and ensured the players were also training in the role and position selected. This greatly increased the speed at which tactical familiarity grew, and I think it was a key reason for our success.

Spoiler

Every player knew exactly where to be and how to behave. Regardless of the opposition, I did absolutely no tinkering and stuck with this system for about half a season. Then I decided to use the Control Possession preset when playing at home against teams where the odds were in my favor. I used exactly the same roles and formation and kept things really simple. I focused heavily on rotation and created a 22-man squad (2 players for each position and role), ensuring everybody's playing time happiness was always at least happy and ensuring that the player's match sharpness was always green. This guaranteed that any time any substitutions or changes were made, players were both ready tactically and physically.

 

Spoiler

 

Control Possession and Fluid Counter-Attack synergize really well together with both of them utilizing shorter passing, mid-blocks and counter-pressing. This meant that the players were already tactically familiar with many instructions and I could switch seamlessly between the two styles. A problem that I have experienced before is that my team is maybe only used to play in, for example, a high-pressing style and then when narrowly defending a lead or playing against a lot superior oppositions suddenly switching to a midblock and low defensive lines left my players really confused with the new style, resulting in less than optimal performances. So this defensive first approach will help a lot with transitioning to a more attacking style in the future. 

Defensively we were superb, preforming well above average in almost every defensive metric. We actually managed to win the league with 84 points in our first season using the Fluid Counter-Attack preset for 90% of the matches, in the other using the control possession preset. In the XG table we overperformed our XPts by 26 . So a lot of luck was involved, and Inter, Milan and Napoli all had rather bad seasons for their standards. 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 16 by AceCream

[TheMartello]

5 minutes ago, AceCream said:

I really love simple, intuitive and defensively-minded tactical styles and formations so this thread has been a revelation to me. Thank you @crusadertsar and everybody who has contributed!

Over in the Calcio thread on the Good Player and Team Guide sub-forum I summarized my first season managing Bologna using a fluid counter attacking style. But I want to go into a bit more detail behind the tactics here, if I may. 

I wanted to emulate the how Bologna are playing in real life today. Thiago Motta plays a very fluid-defensive-possession-based approach for lack of a better word. So naturally, I decided to use the Fluid Counter-Attack tactical style with defensively-minded roles and enough support duties so that the Team Fluidity label was always at least Fluid or Flexible but preferably Very Fluid. My thought process was to start off with a cautious tactical style and use that for a few months before introducing more possession based instructions like playing out from the back and working the ball into box. 

I started with the 4-3-3 but changed to the 4-2-3-1 after having difficulties with positional play in the former. In both formations, I wanted to create the popular 3-2 build-up shape when in possession. I started off by using Calafiori as a Libero that would move into the DM position while in possession. I adore Calafiori in this game, and am excited to use him as a libero, BPD, inverted wing back or full back. A really complete player. 

However, when playing the 4-3-3, I found the DM and the right-sided midfielder (BWM) were always running into each other. 

So I opted for a 4-2-3-1 with a DM double pivot and the right-sided full-back inverting with a wingback on the left side. This also got the most out of left wing-back Kristiansen and Lewis Ferguson, who I played as a Shadow Striker in the AMC position. 

 

I kept with this formation and roles until tactical familiarity was 100% and ensured the players were also training in the role and position selected. This greatly increased the speed at which tactical familiarity grew, and I think it was a key reason for our success.

Every player knew exactly where to be and how to behave. Regardless of the opposition, I did absolutely no tinkering and stuck with this system for about half a season. Then I decided to use the Control Possession preset when playing at home against teams where the odds were in my favor. I used exactly the same roles and formation and kept things really simple. I focused heavily on rotation and created a 22-man squad (2 players for each position and role), ensuring everybody's playing time happiness was always at least happy and ensuring that the player's match sharpness was always green. This guaranteed that any time any substitutions or changes were made, players were both ready tactically and physically.

Control Possession and Fluid Counter-Attack synergize really well together with both of them utilizing shorter passing, mid-blocks and counter-pressing. This meant that the players were already tactically familiar with many instructions and I could switch seamlessly between the two styles. A problem that I have experienced before is that my team is maybe only used to play in, for example, a high-pressing style and then when narrowly defending a lead or playing against a lot superior oppositions suddenly switching to a midblock and low defensive lines left my players really confused with the new style, resulting in less than optimal performances. So this defensive first approach will help a lot with transitioning to a more attacking style in the future. 

 

Did you use any specific Player Instructions?

[AceCream]

2 minutes ago, TheMartello said:

Did you use any specific Player Instructions?

I used Hold Position on the left sided defensive midfielder and told my right sided winger (Orsolini) to cut inside when in possession. 

[HanziZoloman]

@AceCream wow that’s fantastic with Bologna! Great work and great, inspiring write up. Thanks 

[HanziZoloman]

Am 16.4.2024 um 16:33 schrieb AceCream:

I used Hold Position on the left sided defensive midfielder and told my right sided winger (Orsolini) to cut inside when in possession. 

I created something similar like you and especially try to find a fluid formation with max tactical familiarity. Right now we are close. I started with a careful, fluid counter-attack approach. The matches are close but we’re almost always against top teams from the league or league above where we conceded less than before, I am content at the moment. 
did you only use the above roles or did you have some players training other roles and played them in these different roles? For example did you sometimes use a BWM and sometimes a SV depending on the player profile? Also, did you switch training from tactical familiarity player roles into attribute growth at some point?

thanks!

[AceCream]

3 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

I created something similar like you and especially try to find a fluid formation with max tactical familiarity. Right now we are close. I started with a careful, fluid counter-attack approach. The matches are close but we’re almost always against top teams from the league or league above where we conceded less than before, I am content at the moment. 
did you only use the above roles or did you have some players training other roles and played them in these different roles? For example did you sometimes use a BWM and sometimes a SV depending on the player profile? Also, did you switch training from tactical familiarity player roles into attribute growth at some point?

thanks!

Hi! Cool to see you use similar philosophies 😉.

Yes I did use different combinations of roles when using different players to keep the fluidity. For example, Lewis Ferguson is my Shadow Striker (which is a really attacking role) so I only used him with a Complete Forward on Support (Zirkzee). However when rotating Ferguson with Nikola Moro (my other AMC in the squad), who is more of an Advanced Playmaker or a simple Attacking Midfielder on Support, I use an Advanced forward on Attack (Ndoye) to keep the balance and penetration up front. Same goes for the wide players. To have the label "Fluid" I need top have 6 outfield players on support. I don't do this because it is necessarily better, it just a fun little restriction to role-play as a manager that uses "Fluid" tactics. I have been experimenting with changing the right sided fullback into a fullback on support and instructing him to hold position and sit more narrow. This allows me to have an extra attacking player on attack, for example.  

Does that answer your question? 

Edited April 19 by AceCream

[HanziZoloman]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb AceCream:

Does that answer your question? 

Yes! That’s perfect. The 4231 is a good option because of the two attacking roles up front.

At the moment I am playing with a 433 and the (A) player is the one in MC, which means my striker is a (S) and it creates wonderful movements. Depending on situations in the match or in the planning before I can just play a BWM and an AF. Wonderful! 
do you believe that fluidity has a different impact than maybe structured shapes?

[AceCream]

 

3 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Yes! That’s perfect. The 4231 is a good option because of the two attacking roles up front.

At the moment I am playing with a 433 and the (A) player is the one in MC, which means my striker is a (S) and it creates wonderful movements. Depending on situations in the match or in the planning before I can just play a BWM and an AF. Wonderful! 
do you believe that fluidity has a different impact than maybe structured shapes?

The only thing I can say, is it just looks nicer in possession. But I feel it does sacrifice the defensive positioning. Only using 2-3 players with a defensive duty leaves us rather vulnerable on the counter. I would normally have 1 more player on attack and 1 more player on defend if I were trying to win at all costs as I feel that gets better results, but that's no fun . When looking at the current most "Meta" tactics they all have 4 players on support, 4 players on attack and 2 players on defend with a balanced mentality, resulting in a "Flexible" team fluidity. 

BTW: It seems like my luck at Bologna has run out! So don't take my word as gospel 

I am currently hovering above relegation zone in my second season after about 10 league games  In my defense I had to sell Zirkzee for €56M (who had a 50% sell percentage clause with Bayern) and Orsolini for €42M to Saudi and only got 60% of the transfer revenue for my budget. I also got a really tough beginning schedule playing against Napoli, Roma, Juventus, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina and PSG by October. 

Edited April 19 by AceCream

[OYTNANAK]

6 hours ago, AceCream said:

 

The only thing I can say, is it just looks nicer in possession. But I feel it does sacrifice the defensive positioning. Only using 2-3 players with a defensive duty leaves us rather vulnerable on the counter. I would normally have 1 more player on attack and 1 more player on defend if I were trying to win at all costs as I feel that gets better results, but that's no fun . When looking at the current most "Meta" tactics they all have 4 players on support, 4 players on attack and 2 players on defend with a balanced mentality, resulting in a "Flexible" team fluidity. 

BTW: It seems like my luck at Bologna has run out! So don't take my word as gospel 

I am currently hovering above relegation zone in my second season after about 10 league games  In my defense I had to sell Zirkzee for €56M (who had a 50% sell percentage clause with Bayern) and Orsolini for €42M to Saudi and only got 60% of the transfer revenue for my budget. I also got a really tough beginning schedule playing against Napoli, Roma, Juventus, Inter, Milan, Fiorentina and PSG by October. 

Who's the replacement for Zirkzee? Can already imagine the headache. 

[AceCream]

1 hour ago, OYTNANAK said:

Who's the replacement for Zirkzee? Can already imagine the headache. 

Yeah, it was quite a blow, especially since Bayern sneaked in a 50% sale percentage. I actually have two players; both play in a similar style. Large, physical, and complete players who can perform the Complete Forward role.

First off Hugo Ekitiké from PSG on loan with a very reasonable €6.75M optional future fee. He has been rather underwhelming, to say the least, with 14 games, 1 goal, 1 assist, and a 6.57 average rating. 

Spoiler

The other is the Albanian Armando Broja, also on loan. He has a hefty €75M optional future fee, which I will not afford. He started brilliantly, scoring a hat-trick on his debut. But then he tore his knee ligaments leaving him out for 3 months. 

Spoiler

 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb AceCream:

Yeah, it was quite a blow, especially since Bayern sneaked in a 50% sale percentage. I actually have two players; both play in a similar style. Large, physical, and complete players who can perform the Complete Forward role.

First off Hugo Ekitiké from PSG on loan with a very reasonable €6.75M optional future fee. He has been rather underwhelming, to say the least, with 14 games, 1 goal, 1 assist, and a 6.57 average rating. 

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

The other is the Albanian Armando Broja, also on loan. He has a hefty €75M optional future fee, which I will not afford. He started brilliantly, scoring a hat-trick on his debut. But then he tore his knee ligaments leaving him out for 3 months. 

  Unsichtbaren Inhalt anzeigen

 

Shot! That’s bad luck. I like the style of play as well but it’s difficult to get results at the moment. The performance is not bad, it looks beautiful at times but mistakes cost us at the moment. Red cards, own goals and up front: nothing serious. 
now I took a look at your loaned players: wow! Those are complete packages.

Edited April 20 by HanziZoloman

[chris.jeeves]

Hello there. First-time poster / long-time lurker loving this thread and learnt a lot, especially from @crusadertsar

My Deportivo la Coruna side has just been promoted to La Liga in our 2nd season. Back-to-back promotions are great but need a robust tactic for the top flight. The Board have said I need to play in a Defensively sound, counter-attacking and set piece-utilising style.

With this in mind, I have developed the following tactic trying to imbue it with what I have learnt here.

 I am using the following PI's:

• FB (A) — Run wide with ball
• FB (S) — Cross more / Run wide with ball
• CD (D) - Both Fewer risks
• DM (S) — Direct pass / More risks / Hold position / Close down more / Tackle harder
• CM (S) — Close more / Tackle Harder
• CM (A) —More risks / Dribble more / Close More / Tackle Harder
• IF (S) — Sit narrower / Tackle Harder / Mark tightly
• IW (S) —Tackle Harder / mark tighter
• AF — Tackle Harder

To aid the Trap inside I will be asking players to show the opposition wide players onto their weaker foot

A big summer rebuild is on the cards with £6m to spend. Above is my squad for next year minus players retiring / contracts expiring. I have the following players joining on free transfers:

• Will Fish  — DC, Man Utd
• Roberto Lopez — AM, Real San Senastien
• Sebastiano Esposito — AM St, Inter
• Alvaro Valles — GK, Las Palmas

Any input/suggestions to improve the tactic are greatly welcomed as I am a bit of a novice, thanks!

[crusadertsar]

5 hours ago, chris.jeeves said:

Hello there. First-time poster / long-time lurker loving this thread and learnt a lot, especially from @crusadertsar

My Deportivo la Coruna side has just been promoted to La Liga in our 2nd season. Back-to-back promotions are great but need a robust tactic for the top flight. The Board have said I need to play in a Defensively sound, counter-attacking and set piece-utilising style.

With this in mind, I have developed the following tactic trying to imbue it with what I have learnt here.

 I am using the following PI's:

• FB (A) — Run wide with ball
• FB (S) — Cross more / Run wide with ball
• CD (D) - Both Fewer risks
• DM (S) — Direct pass / More risks / Hold position / Close down more / Tackle harder
• CM (S) — Close more / Tackle Harder
• CM (A) —More risks / Dribble more / Close More / Tackle Harder
• IF (S) — Sit narrower / Tackle Harder / Mark tightly
• IW (S) —Tackle Harder / mark tighter
• AF — Tackle Harder

To aid the Trap inside I will be asking players to show the opposition wide players onto their weaker foot

A big summer rebuild is on the cards with £6m to spend. Above is my squad for next year minus players retiring / contracts expiring. I have the following players joining on free transfers:

• Will Fish  — DC, Man Utd
• Roberto Lopez — AM, Real San Senastien
• Sebastiano Esposito — AM St, Inter
• Alvaro Valles — GK, Las Palmas

Any input/suggestions to improve the tactic are greatly welcomed as I am a bit of a novice, thanks!

Looks like a very nicely balanced tactic mate! I don't think you will have trouble staying up, especially if you improve your players to match the division. Eventually, you might have difficulty breaking down more defensive sides, especially as your reputation improves.

For those times I would maybe switch one or both of your fullbacks to wingback role to improve your overlaps and give better support to your forwards. A very good BPD in the backline could do wonders too with his timely long balls to kick-start counterattacks. In terms of instructions I would play wider and with lower tempo when facing those pesky parked buses. But for now enjoy the promotion! La Liga is an amazing competitive division. It's never boring haha. 

And Roberto Lopez is an excellent attacking midfielder. I managed him for 4 seasons at Real Sociedad before replacing him with a better newgen.

Edited April 20 by crusadertsar

[Raymond85]

Long time lurker and reader of your posts and blogs, i have been very often inspired by your work.

I have been using heavily your principles in my Ajax (only academy signings) save that i have just started, and gave the tactics my little twist to suit the mess of a squad they have this year. It was a real challenge to sort it out with friendlies, but i have hit a magnificent sweet spot, and knoking Man utd out of Europa League prompted me to chime in with the appreciation of this playing style.

I adapted the defensive 3-2 to suit my players, set up in a 4-3-3 with a little more gegen kick to it, and ended up with this

 

And results have been astinishing, when i was expecting it to be a real struggle to compete with Feyenoord. The team just became more and more solid as the season progressed

 

 

Some very interesting defensive statistics show how we are compact and concede almost nothing to our opponents, straight from buildup and ball recycling. We don't lose much of the ball, we are compact when we do and we don't concede much.

 

 

 

When we lose the ball, we are very good at winning it back and playing it to look for chances

 

 

 

Something to work on is the offensive side of the game. We score a lot, but we are not as clinical as i would like to be. I think it's down to pure player quality, our forwards are not the best goalscorers, but are much more suited at retaining the ball and distributing it with quality. So i'm not really concerned with this, but it can get frustrating at times. It cost us top of the group in Europa League, but it gave me the fantastic win with Man Utd in return, where Brobbey steps up with his big match quality.

 

 

 

I can't wait to develop the squad with this playing style DNA, i am already imprinting it in Jong and under 18 players with training, and identifying some to promote when big money offers come for my stars.

[TheMartello]

46 minutes ago, Raymond85 said:

Long time lurker and reader of your posts and blogs, i have been very often inspired by your work.

I have been using heavily your principles in my Ajax (only academy signings) save that i have just started, and gave the tactics my little twist to suit the mess of a squad they have this year. It was a real challenge to sort it out with friendlies, but i have hit a magnificent sweet spot, and knoking Man utd out of Europa League prompted me to chime in with the appreciation of this playing style.

I adapted the defensive 3-2 to suit my players, set up in a 4-3-3 with a little more gegen kick to it, and ended up with this

 

And results have been astinishing, when i was expecting it to be a real struggle to compete with Feyenoord. The team just became more and more solid as the season progressed

 

 

Some very interesting defensive statistics show how we are compact and concede almost nothing to our opponents, straight from buildup and ball recycling. We don't lose much of the ball, we are compact when we do and we don't concede much.

 

 

 

When we lose the ball, we are very good at winning it back and playing it to look for chances

 

 

 

Something to work on is the offensive side of the game. We score a lot, but we are not as clinical as i would like to be. I think it's down to pure player quality, our forwards are not the best goalscorers, but are much more suited at retaining the ball and distributing it with quality. So i'm not really concerned with this, but it can get frustrating at times. It cost us top of the group in Europa League, but it gave me the fantastic win with Man Utd in return, where Brobbey steps up with his big match quality.

 

 

 

I can't wait to develop the squad with this playing style DNA, i am already imprinting it in Jong and under 18 players with training, and identifying some to promote when big money offers come for my stars.

This looks great as well!

 

Do you use any Player Instructions in this? If so, which ones? 

[Raymond85]

40 minuti fa, TheMartello ha scritto:

This looks great as well!

 

Do you use any Player Instructions in this? If so, which ones? 

I sometimes have one or both wingers cut inside with the ball, especially the one on attack, but depends on the player. I don't think it makes much of a difference, since in this system they play in a very varied way. I i like them to do their thing. Nothing else at the moment.

[chris.jeeves]

On 20/04/2024 at 12:45, crusadertsar said:

Looks like a very nicely balanced tactic mate! I don't think you will have trouble staying up, especially if you improve your players to match the division. Eventually, you might have difficulty breaking down more defensive sides, especially as your reputation improves.

For those times I would maybe switch one or both of your fullbacks to wingback role to improve your overlaps and give better support to your forwards. A very good BPD in the backline could do wonders too with his timely long balls to kick-start counterattacks. In terms of instructions I would play wider and with lower tempo when facing those pesky parked buses. But for now enjoy the promotion! La Liga is an amazing competitive division. It's never boring haha. 

And Roberto Lopez is an excellent attacking midfielder. I managed him for 4 seasons at Real Sociedad before replacing him with a better newgen.

Amazing, thanks for the feedback, very much appreciated

[HanziZoloman]

Am 23.4.2024 um 15:27 schrieb Raymond85:

can't wait to develop the squad with this playing style DNA, i am already imprinting it in Jong and under 18 players with training, and identifying some to promote when big money offers come for my stars.

Sounds great! would like to read a bit about that part with training and DNA building. 

[Szellef]

Hello everyone, another lurker here to share tactic.

I love defence-first, pragmatist football and I wanted to try it in this year's game when I see this post. I wanted to somewhat create the Simeone's 3-5-2 when I take over A.S Roma, a low-block cautious mentality football.

The main tactic looks like this with mark tighter and tackle harder on 3 midfielders and 2 wingbacks. My tactic tweaks was going balanced mentality when I play at home against worse teams. I would go attacking mentality and mid block when I am chasing a game etc. but the main philosophy remain the same for all season.

The league race was tight but Napoli was the winner at the end. But as you can see we are the best team defensively by far. Only conceding 27. Also another exciting news is I did not lose a match against big teams. My only loses were against Catanzaro (lol), Empoli (again, lol), Udinese and Fiorentina. 

After this over-achieving season AC Milan offered me a job. That is an offer which I can not refuse, so I will continue the new season as coach of AC Milan. I want to play a defensively solid 4-2-3-1 DM AM with Milan. The tactic will be slightly more aggresive from my Roma tactic due to board expectations and squad quality of Milan. 

If anyone interested, I will update this with my first season at Milan.

 

[caco4003]

hace 5 horas, Szellef dijo:

Hello everyone, another lurker here to share tactic.

I love defence-first, pragmatist football and I wanted to try it in this year's game when I see this post. I wanted to somewhat create the Simeone's 3-5-2 when I take over A.S Roma, a low-block cautious mentality football.

The main tactic looks like this with mark tighter and tackle harder on 3 midfielders and 2 wingbacks. My tactic tweaks was going balanced mentality when I play at home against worse teams. I would go attacking mentality and mid block when I am chasing a game etc. but the main philosophy remain the same for all season.

The league race was tight but Napoli was the winner at the end. But as you can see we are the best team defensively by far. Only conceding 27. Also another exciting news is I did not lose a match against big teams. My only loses were against Catanzaro (lol), Empoli (again, lol), Udinese and Fiorentina. 

After this over-achieving season AC Milan offered me a job. That is an offer which I can not refuse, so I will continue the new season as coach of AC Milan. I want to play a defensively solid 4-2-3-1 DM AM with Milan. The tactic will be slightly more aggresive from my Roma tactic due to board expectations and squad quality of Milan. 

If anyone interested, I will update this with my first season at Milan.

 

Great stufff!! Did you use any opossition instruction?

[Raymond85]

Il 24/04/2024 in 21:57 , HanziZoloman ha scritto:

Sounds great! would like to read a bit about that part with training and DNA building. 

I’m away for a week, italian holidays. Might do something when i get back, a new thread maybe to not sidetrack crusadertsar’s awesome work. I’ll tey and get some ideas together and see of it works out

[Szellef]

11 saat önce, caco4003 said:

Great stufff!! Did you use any opossition instruction?

Thanks. No I did not use any OI

[kennypavey]

Reading this I can't help thinking of my team AIK in the Swedish league. Looking at our three latest league titles it has looked like this:

• 2018: Won the title letting in 15 goals in 30 games playing a 5-3-2 with a large focus on "shape" and defensive solidity.
• 2009: Won the title letting in 20 goals in 30 games, scoring only 36 in the process. Played a pretty straight 4-4-2, with a coach mentioning stability and "doing the simple things great" as their motto.
• 1998: Won the title leeting in 15 goals in 26 games, however 9 out of 15 was let in during the first 9 games before we switched keeper. More impressive, we scored only 25 goals in 26 games, meaning that we won the title while being the team with the least goals scored in the entire league.

Needless to say, opposition fans are calling us boring quite often. Sometimes it is correct, but sometimes it just seems to be a matter of "you keep a lot of clean sheets therefor you must be boring". 

Since 2018 we have had our ups and downs, a lot due to the board thinking that the supporters need "entertaining" football to watch the games (could not be more wrong...), so we had a few bad seasons playing entertaining football, but now it seems like we are finally back on track with new manager Henning Berg. Under Berg we do not really care about possession, but we're not a passive team either. When the ball is lost or when there is an opposition goal kick AIK press high, but if the ball is not won we settle in a low/midblock, waiting for a mistake to pounce and attack with speed. Some examples of goals scored during 2024 (example_1,example_2, example_3)

Trying to emulate it, I have the following so far:

Formation: 4-2-3-1
In defense it is basically a narrow 4-4-1-1, but went for a 4-2-3-1 to get Modesto's aggressive runs into space from the right side.

In attack, the left winger tucks in while the other stays high and wide, running into channels. The left back goes forward and wide, while the right side plays more like a traditional full back.

Team Instructions

• Balanced mentality
• Play out of defence - Nordfeldt in goal is no stranger to kicking it far, but most often he's distributing it shorter to defenders. 
• Fairly Narrow in attack
• Counter attack
• Counter press
• Mid block
• High defensive line - To get a tight mid block
• Press more often
• Press outside

Players

The goalkeeper is nothing weird, it is national team keeper Kristoffer Nordfeldt playing as a GK (D)

The defensive line is a bit lopsided, with a WB (S)  to the left and a FB (S)  to the right. In some cases it might be a FB (A)  to the right, as they are somewhat frequently popping up in the penalty area. In the center we have one CD (D) and one BPD (D).

The double pivot is really depending on the players. Anton Saletros is the star, a complete midfielder that can take both offensive and defensive responsibilities. If he is paired with Bersant Celina, Saletros is playing like a DM (S)  with hold position, and Celina is playing like a RPM (S) or SV (S). But if he is playing with Martin Ellingsen or Abdihakim Ali, Saletros is taking the attacking role. 

On the wings, we have Rui Modesto on the right. He is a natural wing back, but now he's our top scorer. He plays high and wide, but has constant runs in the channels. So I have tried him as an IF (A) with stay wider. The left side is tucking in into the AM strata if Celina or Ayari are playing there, so then I have a IW (S) with sit narrower, cut inside with the ball and roam from position. But if Coulibaly is playing there, he tucks in into the CM strata, so then it is a WM (S)  in the CM strata with the same instructions.

In the AM position, we play with a SS (A) or AM (S). Omar Faraj is a beast, playing like a AM target man and bullying opponents with his physicality while being surprisingly good in his passing and dribbling game. We also have Ayari and Besirovic who are smaller and more technical "pure" attacking midfielders.

As a striker we have Ioannis Pittas, the Cypriot striker who never stops running. In fact he covered the 4th most ground of strikers world-wide per game last season. He really is a PF (A) with move into channels. Here is a typical Pittas goal. In the future we will also have former top talent John Guidetti returning from injury. He will either play the Pittas role or the Faraj role when returning.

Currently not far into my testing, but went through the cup (played during pre-season) without conceding a single goal through 5 games, so it is looking promising. Will report back when I have more tangible results.

[crusadertsar]

30 minutes ago, kennypavey said:

Reading this I can't help thinking of my team AIK in the Swedish league. Looking at our three latest league titles it has looked like this:

• 2018: Won the title letting in 15 goals in 30 games playing a 5-3-2 with a large focus on "shape" and defensive solidity.
• 2009: Won the title letting in 20 goals in 30 games, scoring only 36 in the process. Played a pretty straight 4-4-2, with a coach mentioning stability and "doing the simple things great" as their motto.
• 1998: Won the title leeting in 15 goals in 26 games, however 9 out of 15 was let in during the first 9 games before we switched keeper. More impressive, we scored only 25 goals in 26 games, meaning that we won the title while being the team with the least goals scored in the entire league.

Needless to say, opposition fans are calling us boring quite often. Sometimes it is correct, but sometimes it just seems to be a matter of "you keep a lot of clean sheets therefor you must be boring". 

Since 2018 we have had our ups and downs, a lot due to the board thinking that the supporters need "entertaining" football to watch the games (could not be more wrong...), so we had a few bad seasons playing entertaining football, but now it seems like we are finally back on track with new manager Henning Berg. Under Berg we do not really care about possession, but we're not a passive team either. When the ball is lost or when there is an opposition goal kick AIK press high, but if the ball is not won we settle in a low/midblock, waiting for a mistake to pounce and attack with speed. Some examples of goals scored during 2024 (example_1,example_2, example_3)

Trying to emulate it, I have the following so far:

Formation: 4-2-3-1
In defense it is basically a narrow 4-4-1-1, but went for a 4-2-3-1 to get Modesto's aggressive runs into space from the right side.

In attack, the left winger tucks in while the other stays high and wide, running into channels. The left back goes forward and wide, while the right side plays more like a traditional full back.

Team Instructions

• Balanced mentality
• Play out of defence - Nordfeldt in goal is no stranger to kicking it far, but most often he's distributing it shorter to defenders. 
• Fairly Narrow in attack
• Counter attack
• Counter press
• Mid block
• High defensive line - To get a tight mid block
• Press more often
• Press outside

Players

The goalkeeper is nothing weird, it is national team keeper Kristoffer Nordfeldt playing as a GK (D)

The defensive line is a bit lopsided, with a WB (S)  to the left and a FB (S)  to the right. In some cases it might be a FB (A)  to the right, as they are somewhat frequently popping up in the penalty area. In the center we have one CD (D) and one BPD (D).

The double pivot is really depending on the players. Anton Saletros is the star, a complete midfielder that can take both offensive and defensive responsibilities. If he is paired with Bersant Celina, Saletros is playing like a DM (S)  with hold position, and Celina is playing like a RPM (S) or SV (S). But if he is playing with Martin Ellingsen or Abdihakim Ali, Saletros is taking the attacking role. 

On the wings, we have Rui Modesto on the right. He is a natural wing back, but now he's our top scorer. He plays high and wide, but has constant runs in the channels. So I have tried him as an IF (A) with stay wider. The left side is tucking in into the AM strata if Celina or Ayari are playing there, so then I have a IW (S) with sit narrower, cut inside with the ball and roam from position. But if Coulibaly is playing there, he tucks in into the CM strata, so then it is a WM (S)  in the CM strata with the same instructions.

In the AM position, we play with a SS (A) or AM (S). Omar Faraj is a beast, playing like a AM target man and bullying opponents with his physicality while being surprisingly good in his passing and dribbling game. We also have Ayari and Besirovic who are smaller and more technical "pure" attacking midfielders.

As a striker we have Ioannis Pittas, the Cypriot striker who never stops running. In fact he covered the 4th most ground of strikers world-wide per game last season. He really is a PF (A) with move into channels. Here is a typical Pittas goal. In the future we will also have former top talent John Guidetti returning from injury. He will either play the Pittas role or the Faraj role when returning.

Currently not far into my testing, but went through the cup (played during pre-season) without conceding a single goal through 5 games, so it is looking promising. Will report back when I have more tangible results.

Really nice write-up! Good tactical analysis and well-realized realistic recreation in the game. Just the way I like it 

[Szellef]

On 25.04.2024 at 20:30, Szellef said:

Hello everyone, another lurker here to share tactic.

I love defence-first, pragmatist football and I wanted to try it in this year's game when I see this post. I wanted to somewhat create the Simeone's 3-5-2 when I take over A.S Roma, a low-block cautious mentality football.

The main tactic looks like this with mark tighter and tackle harder on 3 midfielders and 2 wingbacks. My tactic tweaks was going balanced mentality when I play at home against worse teams. I would go attacking mentality and mid block when I am chasing a game etc. but the main philosophy remain the same for all season.

The league race was tight but Napoli was the winner at the end. But as you can see we are the best team defensively by far. Only conceding 27. Also another exciting news is I did not lose a match against big teams. My only loses were against Catanzaro (lol), Empoli (again, lol), Udinese and Fiorentina. 

After this over-achieving season AC Milan offered me a job. That is an offer which I can not refuse, so I will continue the new season as coach of AC Milan. I want to play a defensively solid 4-2-3-1 DM AM with Milan. The tactic will be slightly more aggresive from my Roma tactic due to board expectations and squad quality of Milan. 

If anyone interested, I will update this with my first season at Milan.

 

UPDATE!

2nd Season in Italy - AC Milan

As you know after a succesfull season with Roma, I approached by Milan and started the new season as the manager of Milan. I still wanted to continue to play with a defence first mentality. I wanted to create a balanced 4-2-3-1 tactic which emphasizes the strengths of the squad.

I made a few transfer moves to strengthen our squad such as Eyüp Aydın, Fonseca and Kristiansen. Real Madrid wanted Maignan and I sold him for 86 M euros and replaced him with Ramsdale which I only paid about 48 M euros. After some trial and error for roles and duties (Especially for Striker role I tried CF-S CF-A PF-A PF-S and finally AF-A) this is the final version of the tactic.

The PIs I use are:

Dribble More for WB-At (Theo Hernandez)

Hold Position, Tackle Harder, Mark Tighter  for DM-Su (Adli and Aydın)

Take More Risks, Tackle Harder, Mark Tighter for VOL-Su (Musah and Bennacer)

Cut Inside With The Ball, Get Further Forward, Mark Tighter for W-Su (Chukwueze and Saelemaekers)

 

After the January transfer window, the league table looks like this;

The tactic is performing better than I expected if I am being honest.  We are having clean sheets almost every game and scoring a lot. Here is an example match against Internazionale;

They had 57 percent of possession but they only had 1 shot for entire match which came after the 80th minute. They did not had a single shot until 80th minute.

We also directly quailifed to the Round of 16 in Champions League and reached the Semi Final in Coppa Italia. Maybe a treble?

[kennypavey]

15 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Really nice write-up! Good tactical analysis and well-realized realistic recreation in the game. Just the way I like it 

It started as me trying to create a tactic similar to your pass and move framework, and I have laborated here with more generic roles in dm, wingers and full backs and try to let traits to their thing. I found that two FB (s) works brilliantly in creating a dynamic back 3 in build up, where one full back moves up and the other stays behind a bit (instead of forcing a IFB and a FBa). It didn't work as well for the winger position unfortunately. Celina on the left stays to wide for my liking, and it is hard to replicate the intense running of Ioannis Pittas and Rui Modesto even when they are pressing forwards and inside forwards.

Edited April 27 by kennypavey

[BennosGames0299]

Hi @crusadertsar

I know this is not the right thread for this topic but i have no idea how else to contact you. A while back I was reading an article of yours on dictate the game called "total football journeyman: creating my 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid". I read through the article as i was looking for help trying to recreate Ajax's diamond under Eric Ten Hag in 18/19. The match engine was far more limited than it is now when it comes to replicating positional play tactics so i don't think it was possible to do a 1-1 replica. My question is have you seen anything in this year's game that could potentially replicate the movement's of Ajax. Frankie De Jong dropping into the backline as a libero type etc. Every year i wait for someone to successfully replicate this tactic, and every year I'm disappointed, and it would seem that after the season Manchester United have had i won't be seeing many FM experts attempting to recreate his style anymore. 

 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb BennosGames0299:

Hi @crusadertsar

I know this is not the right thread for this topic but i have no idea how else to contact you. A while back I was reading an article of yours on dictate the game called "total football journeyman: creating my 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 hybrid". I read through the article as i was looking for help trying to recreate Ajax's diamond under Eric Ten Hag in 18/19. The match engine was far more limited than it is now when it comes to replicating positional play tactics so i don't think it was possible to do a 1-1 replica. My question is have you seen anything in this year's game that could potentially replicate the movement's of Ajax. Frankie De Jong dropping into the backline as a libero type etc. Every year i wait for someone to successfully replicate this tactic, and every year I'm disappointed, and it would seem that after the season Manchester United have had i won't be seeing many FM experts attempting to recreate his style anymore. 

 

I don’t know if it’s that but, you could try to play a HB dropping between the two CB. Two WB(D/S) going up the flanks. The second DM(S) with hold position or a DLP(S), incutting wide players like IW(S) or IF(S) and a striker. 
lots of support duties to create a fluid shape? Could be worth a try

[BennosGames0299]

Just now, HanziZoloman said:

I don’t know if it’s that but, you could try to play a HB dropping between the two CB. Two WB(D/S) going up the flanks. The second DM(S) with hold position or a DLP(S), incutting wide players like IW(S) or IF(S) and a striker. 
lots of support duties to create a fluid shape? Could be worth a try

The only issue is the hardcoded instructions included with the halfback position are not suitable for the movement I'm looking to create. Frankie was the progressive carrier in the team, he would drop into the left hand zone to form a back three and the bring the ball out of defense into midfield like a libero, but the half back is hardcoded to hold position and dibble less.

 

Thanks for the comment though mate. 

[crusadertsar]

4 hours ago, BennosGames0299 said:

The only issue is the hardcoded instructions included with the halfback position are not suitable for the movement I'm looking to create. Frankie was the progressive carrier in the team, he would drop into the left hand zone to form a back three and the bring the ball out of defense into midfield like a libero, but the half back is hardcoded to hold position and dibble less.

 

Thanks for the comment though mate. 

Unfortunately other than a halfback there is no other role that drops back like that. You could maybe try a halfback with some unique individual traits like brings the  ball out of defence ect. 

[HanziZoloman]

@BennosGames0299 there’s a good one on Ajax on dictate the game. Very inspiring 

[BennosGames0299]

14 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

@BennosGames0299 there’s a good one on Ajax on dictate the game. Very inspiring 

Yeah that's the article i was referring too by crusadertsar, the article is brilliant, just seems like there isn't a role in the game that suits Frankie. Thank You for the comment.

[chris.jeeves]

CORUNA — END-OF-SEASON UPDATE:

After back-to-back promotions, my Coruna team contested their first season back in the top flight. We were expected to finish last in the league...

We finished 7th, one place above arch-rivals Celta Vigo, hurrah! We also beat Barcelona 3-1 at Camp Nou. The XG table suggested we might of finished higher.

An incredible season made possible thanks to this thread so thanks to everyone and  @crusadertsar

Season review

After a slow start, I went quite defensive with this tactic and started to pick up results including the aforementioned Barcelona victory.

Player instructions

• FB — Run wide with ball, cross more
• CD (D) - Both Fewer risks
• DM (S) — Hold position / Close down more / Tackle harder
• CM (S) — Close more / Tackle Harder
• CM (A) —More risks / Dribble more / Close More / Tackle Harder
• IF (S) — Sit narrower / Tackle Harder / Mark tightly
• IW (S) —Tackle Harder / mark tighter
• AF — Tackle Harder

 

 

General observations

I managed to cobble together a decent enough first eleven, but the quality fell off a cliff with the subs/reserves on a tiny budget. Injuries and AFCON affected results too. We tended to only lose by a single goal and never really got battered apart from once against Real Madrid. We seemed to hold our own and often dominated XG only for the opposition to score with their only shot on target.

I found that my keeper and defence consistently performed well (aside from the odd brain fart costing us a goal), but the Wide players / Forward and DM were quite inconsistent and the MC's blue hot and cold. Bentaleb as DM was probably not ideal but he was free.  Some players went from a great run of form to useless. I guess that's football and what you get with very little rotation and depending on a small squad for lack of quality. Better depth I hope can partially rectify this.

Because we all love stats

Here are some stats for how the season unfolded.

All in all, I'm very pleased, but would like to try and take us to the next level next season, so any suggestions/tweaks would be very much appreciated.

My thoughts:

• Make Chris Mepham BPD (D)
• LFB — make either Fb (A) or Wb (S)
• CM (S) — Possibly a Mezzala (S)
• Not convinced about trap inside / Drop off more / stop crosses is a good way to go

Sorry for the long post, thanks in advance for your help.

Happy FM-ing

[Fox-7-]

5 ore fa, chris.jeeves ha scritto:

...

My thoughts:

• Make Chris Mepham BPD (D)
• LFB — make either Fb (A) or Wb (S)
• CM (S) — Possibly a Mezzala (S)
• Not convinced about trap inside / Drop off more / stop crosses is a good way to go 

 

If I were you I'd start with the first two moves, with the LFB(A) option. I would leave LCM as CM(S), perhaps adding the 'Hold Position' PI to have greater control of the center of the pitch in the transition from attack to defense if a ball turnover occurs.

With a balanced 4-3-3, OoP I'd leave trap instructions, DL behavior and cross instructions all blank, and use them situationally based on the opponents you face from time to time.

I would also try to remove tackle harder at least from the front three, although I don't know them I think it is unlikely that they have good defensive skills, and you risk having a first pressing that would be outplayed too easily

[HanziZoloman]

I already posted the tactics in the 433 thread but post them here as well, as both threads are my "home" where I learned so much to get there. 

I am sitting top of the league after many painful years in the EFL One. It's the YAC which means, the team is the same for many years and this years tactics changed everything. 

The first is a fluid counter-attacking shape which we used mainly in the first half of the season and which brought us up. I sometimes switch the roles depending on who is playing and who are the opponents. For example I like a W(A) against an IWB or an IW(A/S) against a WB. I spend a lot of time figuring out my opponents weaknesses and countering them.

Spoiler

 After we were winning a lot of games we slightly moved into a counter-pressing style of play without sacrificing our defense first approach. We put the opponents defense line under pressure with OI and the Mezzala has a crucial role. He is to stay close to the CB to tight mark him or put pressure on him. The MC can also be a BWM depending on the player, a more creative player tends to play against the weaker sides for more creativity. Also I play with TIs during the match like "be more creative", "dribble more/ less" depending on what I see. I never touch the mentality which is always balanced.

I try to remain very fluid/ fluid with many supporting roles working together. I know it doesn't impact the game (much) but I found it looks exactly like I want to see my team playing. I think with a more structured approach it should work similar. 

Spoiler

We took the counter-attackinmg approach after the Burnley game in January before it was used only occasionally. 

I tend to prepare a lot for the matches figuring out the opponents weaknesses to counter them properly. I like playing the underdogs which is why I need to put in the work. This is the YAC I don't loan/ buy players but use my youth players only.

I recently made good progress by following the advice of @Duracellio here: You can learn a lot about how to approach the opponent team and countering them properly. It needs a bit of figuring it out but is a lot of fun when it finally works. Again doing a lot of teamtalks is helpful as well. Here I learnt a lot from @Cloud9 who helped out recently by describing how he addresses players before a match with personal talks to get the morale up on superb/ excellent. I believe by doing all this I am using much of what the game is offering to the player.

Spoiler

 

Edited May 5 by HanziZoloman

[mikcheck]

@HanziZoloman you're really advanced in the game. Have you been on the same team since the start and what are those numbers after the name?

[crusadertsar]

1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

@HanziZoloman you're really advanced in the game. Have you been on the same team since the start and what are those numbers after the name?

We will wait for him to respond. But he is doing a youth academy challenge from what I remember. Numbers like that is what some use to keep track of intakes in those kind of saves. I myself use a similar system where I put the year number that the player entered my academy after his name. It's just fun to see all the golden class graduates in the future, seeing how many were in the same year. I find youth development is really the only way I can keep interest in my long term saves. My current one is approaching 2030 mark so I guess it's working. But 2067 is indeed very impressive!

Edited May 5 by crusadertsar

[HanziZoloman]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb mikcheck:

@HanziZoloman you're really advanced in the game. Have you been on the same team since the start and what are those numbers after the name?

Yes it’s like @crusadertsar explained. It’s really fun especially if your opponent has former youth players from the own academy and you can recognise them immediately because of the numbers. I played Oxford recently and they had two strikers, both were long time servants and fan favourites of Billericay. One of them even leads the goalscorer list. Amazing. 
yes and it’s Billericay or nothing.

Edited May 5 by HanziZoloman

[billmatic]

I thought I'd try something different before doing my own save and told ChatGPT to create a "defence-minded tactic" and this is what it cooked up. Let's see how this goes!  

Quote

This setup focuses on maintaining a solid defensive shape, with a deep defensive line and narrow width to limit space for opponents to exploit. The defensive midfielder provides extra cover in front of the defense, while the fullbacks stay back to provide additional defensive support.

On the counter-attack, the team looks to exploit any spaces left by the opposition, with the goalkeeper distributing quickly to the fullbacks to initiate attacks. The overall aim is to remain compact and disciplined, frustrating opponents and looking for opportunities to hit them on the break. Adjustments can be made based on the strengths and weaknesses of your players and the specific tactics of your opponents.

Update: Simulated the first 10 games of the season to see how the tactic would fare and it's not looking good to say the least. 

Edited May 6 by billmatic

[Fox-7-]

9 ore fa, billmatic ha scritto:

I thought I'd try something different before doing my own save and told ChatGPT to create a "defence-minded tactic" and this is what it cooked up. Let's see how this goes!  

Update: Simulated the first 10 games of the season to see how the tactic would fare and it's not looking good to say the least. 

No wonder it's not working, I think the approach proposed by ChatGPT is too passive, especially for the possession phase where there is no real counterattack plan. In the end I believe that the result is to be under pressure for very large stretches of the match and therefore in the end it is almost inevitable to concede one or more goals

I would modify it with a W(a) on one side with a FB(s) behind it and a Mez(a) on the CM of the opposite side with a DW(s) or a WM(s) next to it

In TIs I would start by setting the tempo to Slightly higher and removing Prevent short GK distribution

[crusadertsar]

9 hours ago, billmatic said:

I thought I'd try something different before doing my own save and told ChatGPT to create a "defence-minded tactic" and this is what it cooked up. Let's see how this goes!  

Update: Simulated the first 10 games of the season to see how the tactic would fare and it's not looking good to say the least. 

Well you did use AI to create your tactic without putting any actual effort into thinking of role combinations and instructions that actually work well together in a Defence-First tactic.

The roles AI proposed are too predictable. There is also not a lot of tactical variety and almost nonexistent goal-scoring threat. It's a just a tactic that defends passively for the sake of defending. But guess effort put in equals results reaped. 

Edited May 6 by crusadertsar

[billmatic]

38 minutes ago, Fox-7- said:

I would modify it with a W(a) on one side with a FB(s) behind it and a Mez(a) on the CM of the opposite side with a DW(s) or a WM(s) next to it

In TIs I would start by setting the tempo to Slightly higher and removing Prevent short GK distribution

I'll keep this in mind when creating my tactics in my real save, potentially with Palace.

 

39 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Well you did use AI to create your tactic without putting any actual effort into thinking of role combinations and instructions that actually work well together in a Defence-First tactic.

The roles AI proposed are too predictable. There is also not a lot of tactical variety and almost nonexistent goal-scoring threat. It's a just a tactic that defends passively for the sake of defending. But guess effort put in equals results reaped. 

You hit the nail on the head there. 6 goals scored, the fewest in the league, no in-game tweaks, minimal effort or consideration, not sure why I expected anything more than bottom. Lack of sleep does that.

 

If anything this absolute failure has given me even more of an incentive to create my own tactic with the help of those in this thread.

[OYTNANAK]

On 05/05/2024 at 22:45, HanziZoloman said:

Yes it’s like @crusadertsar explained. It’s really fun especially if your opponent has former youth players from the own academy and you can recognise them immediately because of the numbers. I played Oxford recently and they had two strikers, both were long time servants and fan favourites of Billericay. One of them even leads the goalscorer list. Amazing. 
yes and it’s Billericay or nothing.

What are the letters behind the year though? For example 63 - YA1.

[HanziZoloman]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb OYTNANAK:

What are the letters behind the year though? For example 63 - YA1.

Y is for Youth 

A is for A rated (elite) talent

63 is for the year of intake

1 is for the best player, I name the best three players 1-3

w is for the worst 

[billmatic]

After six successive clean sheets (granted against lesser opponents, an intra-squad friendly, and a testimonial match) in pre-season I thought I'd finally cracked it, but five games into the actual season I'm sitting 14th with one win (1-0 vs Brighton), three losses, including back-to-back 2-3 to Villa and Forest, and a draw (1-1 vs Everton). Initially I wanted to have a W - At on the right, but Olise has a long-term injury and Ayew is 45 years old so I pinched an idea I saw on another thread. (I'll edit in credit once I remember whose idea it was.) I think the tactic itself is on the cusp of being affective, but any insight into where the problems lie or any tweaks you think beneficial would be appreciated.

Team Analytics (Suggestions welcome)

Spoiler

Squad (View courtesy of @ultrAslan)

Spoiler

[HanziZoloman]

Am 12.5.2024 um 03:45 schrieb billmatic:

After six successive clean sheets (granted against lesser opponents, an intra-squad friendly, and a testimonial match) in pre-season I thought I'd finally cracked it, but five games into the actual season I'm sitting 14th with one win (1-0 vs Brighton), three losses, including back-to-back 2-3 to Villa and Forest, and a draw (1-1 vs Everton). Initially I wanted to have a W - At on the right, but Olise has a long-term injury and Ayew is 45 years old so I pinched an idea I saw on another thread. (I'll edit in credit once I remember whose idea it was.) I think the tactic itself is on the cusp of being affective, but any insight into where the problems lie or any tweaks you think beneficial would be appreciated.

Team Analytics (Suggestions welcome)

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Squad (View courtesy of @ultrAslan)

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Pre season friendlies are rarely a good hint on how the team is performing.

I try and offer my thoughts: on first sight it looks straight forward and like a good setup but if I imagine the roles and where they are, when play breaks down the issues are really difficult.

Both WB(A) are pushing forward in a line of four with the forwards, the DLF(A) is dropping into AM but will drive forward again as soon as possible. The AP(S) is the only central player offering passing options. The BWM will be an option at times but he will be out of position a lot as he is charging opponents. the DM(S) will be an option behind. 
You want to play in a midblock and charge forward as soon as you win the ball but I don’t see that happen because when you retreat into a midblock, two strikers, both WB and the BWM at times will be out of position.

you need to cast a web of players which makes it very hard for the opponent to penetrate into final area.

maybe a DM and two central players are a better option, maybe dialing down the WB is an option too. 
maybe WB(S/D) and an attacking MC like a mezzala or MC(A) and a DLF(S) could help to bring more out of the shape.

[billmatic]

4 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

Pre season friendlies are rarely a good hint on how the team is performing.

I try and offer my thoughts: on first sight it looks straight forward and like a good setup but if I imagine the roles and where they are, when play breaks down the issues are really difficult.

Both WB(A) are pushing forward in a line of four with the forwards, the DLF(A) is dropping into AM but will drive forward again as soon as possible. The AP(S) is the only central player offering passing options. The BWM will be an option at times but he will be out of position a lot as he is charging opponents. the DM(S) will be an option behind. 
You want to play in a midblock and charge forward as soon as you win the ball but I don’t see that happen because when you retreat into a midblock, two strikers, both WB and the BWM at times will be out of position.

you need to cast a web of players which makes it very hard for the opponent to penetrate into final area.

maybe a DM and two central players are a better option, maybe dialing down the WB is an option too. 
maybe WB(S/D) and an attacking MC like a mezzala or MC(A) and a DLF(S) could help to bring more out of the shape.

Brilliant insight, thank you! I'll do some tinkering and get back to you with the results.

[Fox-7-]

Sorry for the long post, but I think that with this update I can give further insight into how a Defense-First approach can work.

Season 4 concluded. In the SPL we once again obtained a 2nd place which was never in question, and indeed we kept the SPL open until 2 games to go. We have broken the 80 point barrier for the first time, with many fewer drawn matches and more wins than last year (the defeats have also increased in number, but half of them are the three Regular Seasons matches against Celtic, an unfortunately insurmountable obstacle even in the final stages of domestic cups). The difference in the standing is therefore mainly due to H2H, also because they have worsened their overall performance compared to last season.

We combined a great campaign in the Conference League (to which we arrived after losing in the Champions League preliminaries against AEK Athens and in the Europa League playoffs against Ajax), where we reached the Semi-final lost against Tottenham.

The results were excellent, but in the end the taste was bittersweet, because I had the feeling that something more could have been achieved. The season literally had two different faces while maintaining the same tactical approach. In the first part we had the maximum expression of defensive stability, with many Clean Sheets and few goals scored, while in the second half the trend was reversed, the attack increased the goals with many different players finding the net, but at the same time the defense was no longer so impenetrable. For the first time, despite having used the same training plan as always, we suffered a high number of injuries, all rather short but frequent (for example our striker Hornby accumulated over 2 months of absence with 4 different injuries). Along with this, fixture congestion and lack of team depth in rotations have probably undermined our performance in some ways at some points in the season, with players forced to play many close games without a back up player available or out of position.

As for tactics, as always I stuck to the 4-4-2 with its variations. I changed the tactic to face the strongest teams, switching to this one

I switched back to the Balanced mentality, as I felt that with the Positive mentality my players were rushing decisions too much in attack, thus wasting many opportunities and reducing their chances of scoring. I put IW on Attack duty on the left wing and advanced the AMa in attack as a PFa to add some threat to the opponents, AM was often bypassed by direct passes, while when I tried it as an SSa it was not very dangerous given that his insertions were read well by very skilled opponents. As a PFa, however, he is more often able to go beyond their CBs without being hindered. In the center of the court I switched to a double pivot DMd and DMs to better protect myself against AMs and long shots.

The changes were translated on the pitch: in fact I remained unbeaten again against Rangers, while I almost always lost against Celtic (1W and 4L in the season), but the matches were much more competitive and the difference was mainly due to the quality gap of their players compared to mine which seems to have increased with their unattainable resources for anyone in the SPL. Even in European matches, high-ranking opponents have never crushed us (only Ajax and Tottenham have beaten us).

As mentioned in a previous post, I also introduced another variant of 4-4-2 inspired by my vision of the Czech Republic team from Euro 2004. For the moment I have used it in matches against inferior teams, but the results are were encouraging

 

Now a statistical overview of the championship season to give the right value to the tactical approach covered by the topic

- We are first for Clean Sheets, despite not playing on the front foot we defend very effectively

 

- Despite the Defense-First approach, we practically always manage to put ourselves in a position to score

 

- With the 4-4-2 there are many opportunities to attack from the wings with crosses, and we do it better than anyone

 

- By making a lot of crosses (and protecting the center in defense) we face numerous aerial duels, and we are by far the best in this field

 

- Our defense is based above all on the positioning of the players, we do little to tackle the ball, but we choose our battles quite well

 

- We let the opponents play with the ball enough, but our defensive organization makes it difficult for us to play through close to our penalty area

 

- In fact we are dealing with few shots against in general

 

- Even though we leave space for our opponents, we don't struggle in defending, we are second to last for Clearances

 

- Defense-First approach is feasible even with few resources, there is still good room for improvement