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[FM24] Russian clubs in AFC Champions League


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Another simple one along the line of my FM23 version, this puts the Russian cup winner and top two league teams - currently banned from UEFA - into the Asian Champions League, starting in the second season. Teams from the Ural Federal District and eastwards play in the East prelims, teams from west of the Urals, in the West:

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Also contains the new prize money from next season. Haven't bothered with the new restructuring as teams qualify for continental comps in the background already and it's best not to mess with.

Note that the hard-coded sanctions on Russian teams mean that their "home" games are at neutral venues, and because they're still European, the games don't actually show in their fixture lists.

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Edited by themodelcitizen
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Nice! Definitely interested in this. Just feels weird having a nation as big as Russia completely left out of continental competition permanently. TBH I've wanted to see Russian teams in the ACL since long before the current sanctions too.

For this part "and don't show in their fixture lists. " would moving Russia to Asia fix that? I think it might be an issue with them playing in a tournament set for a different continent rather than part of the sanctions.

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24 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

Nice! Definitely interested in this. Just feels weird having a nation as big as Russia completely left out of continental competition permanently. TBH I've wanted to see Russian teams in the ACL since long before the current sanctions too.

For this part "and don't show in their fixture lists. " would moving Russia to Asia fix that? I think it might be an issue with them playing in a tournament set for a different continent rather than part of the sanctions.

That's true, I think the same thing happened with Spanish teams in the African CL, but oddly CONCACAF teams in the Libertadores were fine. It might be an exception dating back to the days when Mexican teams were allowed in IRL (and in-game, presumably). I wonder what other side effects would arise (if any) from changing them to Asia

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33 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

That's true, I think the same thing happened with Spanish teams in the African CL, but oddly CONCACAF teams in the Libertadores were fine. It might be an exception dating back to the days when Mexican teams were allowed in IRL (and in-game, presumably). I wonder what other side effects would arise (if any) from changing them to Asia

If you moved them to Asia it would also make Russian players eligible to win Asian player awards. IIRC the international sanction for Russia is done on a per tournament basis too, with all European tournaments having a specific "Ignore Russia" instruction, so moving them to Asia would probably get them playing internationals again in the Asian WC qualifiers and Asian youth tournaments.

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Gonna experiment with that now. The only downside to my club solution is they're hard-wired to 3 spots (no AFC Cup), but the rest of the co-efficients seem to rise and fall around them as usual (mind you, the "nation club coefficient ranking" for Asia has blank spaces instead of country names by default, hopefully they patch that up).

EDIT: you might just have to rebuild the AFC system to account for the extra ranking spot but that wouldn't be too difficult

Edited by themodelcitizen
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Trying to keep the default fixture rules and everything but it's giving the dreaded "no squad selected" for the first round. In 23 I could move the dates around a bit (still getting that first round done before Copa Lib groups) and it seemed to settle itself but not this time. Might have to shift the CONCACAF qualifying into the Libertadores prelims and see if that helps (can seed them so they only play each other). Also looking at CONCACAF CL default rules it's a bit of a mess, I think they wanted to account for situations where the same team took multiple top seedings (i.e. won MLS and Leagues Cup) but it's not pretty 

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13 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Trying to keep the default fixture rules and everything but it's giving the dreaded "no squad selected" for the first round. In 23 I could move the dates around a bit (still getting that first round done before Copa Lib groups) and it seemed to settle itself but not this time. Might have to shift the CONCACAF qualifying into the Libertadores prelims and see if that helps (can seed them so they only play each other). Also looking at CONCACAF CL default rules it's a bit of a mess, I think they wanted to account for situations where the same team took multiple top seedings (i.e. won MLS and Leagues Cup) but it's not pretty 

Ah that's too bad. Wonder if it's issues with CONCACAF teams in the Libertadores or just a fixture congestion issue. Thinking about it, North American teams really do have a lot of games! So do South Americans actually so I can see why moving dates can be hard there.

If you could get it working, how were you planning on adding them? As in, how many CONCACAF teams would join the Libertadores?

Edited by rusty217
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It's annoying because it's the same default dates, unless I've messed up seeding somehow in my chopping and changing. Will start again with a clean set of rules.

6 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

If you could get it working, how were you planning on adding them? As in, how many CONCACAF teams would join the Libertadores?

It actually fits perfectly, CONCACAF whittles itself down to a final 16 just in time to add to the 32-team Libertadores group stage, making 48.

Group winners and best runners-up progress, leaving 8 runners-up to drop to the Sudamericana (used to be 8 third-place teams).

The CONCACAF last 16 isn't played and is just decided by a 16-team league phase (getting results from the Libertadores groups). This could probably be dropped entirely but you want to account for Club World Cup stuff in the background as much as possible.

It's great for MLS, same calendar year as Brazil and now it all leads up to a big final in winter. MX teams and fans would love it too. Plus the guaranteed Caribbean spot in CONCACAF's last 16 makes for some great Tivoli Gardens vs. Flamengo-type clashes

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5 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

It's annoying because it's the same default dates, unless I've messed up seeding somehow in my chopping and changing. Will start again with a clean set of rules.

It actually fits perfectly, CONCACAF whittles itself down to a final 16 just in time to add to the 32-team Libertadores group stage, making 48.

Group winners and best runners-up progress, leaving 8 runners-up to drop to the Sudamericana (used to be 8 third-place teams).

The CONCACAF last 16 isn't played and is just decided by a 16-team league phase (getting results from the Libertadores groups). This could probably be dropped entirely but you want to account for Club World Cup stuff in the background as much as possible.

It's great for MLS, same calendar year as Brazil and now it all leads up to a big final in winter. MX teams and fans would love it too. Plus the guaranteed Caribbean spot in CONCACAF's last 16 makes for some great Tivoli Gardens vs. Flamengo-type clashes

Nice! Didn't realise you'd already done it last year. Definitely seems interesting.

Impressive work with the ACL too, especially splitting Russian teams between the East/West playoffs depending on which part of the country they're from. Must've taken awhile putting in all the local regions!

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2 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

Nice! Didn't realise you'd already done it last year. Definitely seems interesting.

Impressive work with the ACL too, especially splitting Russian teams between the East/West playoffs depending on which part of the country they're from. Must've taken awhile putting in all the local regions!

LOL, I took it as a lesson in geography. Who knew how dense some of those areas in "Central Russia" are. Plus it was worth it the first time seeing Khabarovsk or whoever drawn in the East

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I'm sure it adds a good 30 seconds or so when it's setting up the ACL on a slower machine :lol: but it's worth it

EDIT: Wow, I just spotted they went ahead and included FC Sevastopol's (still in "based nation" Crimea) move to the Russian Second Division this year. Will have to include AR Crimea in the list of regions now

Edited by themodelcitizen
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14 minutes ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

I've even spend the last 5 days trying to add the new ACL structure but it all goes to ***** lol. 

I'm gonna say good, I hate the new structure, although ig for realism purposes I could see why

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1 hour ago, Vakama2619 said:

I'm gonna say good, I hate the new structure, although ig for realism purposes I could see why

Why do you hate it?

I'm not too keen on the new ACL Elite. But I think the ACL 2 and Challenge League are massive improvements over the AFC Cup. Granted, the AFC Cup is the stupidest competition ever and literally anything would be better than that mess, but still I'm definitely looking forward to having tier 2 (and 3) tournaments that aren't terrible!

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1 hour ago, rusty217 said:

Why do you hate it?

I'm not too keen on the new ACL Elite. But I think the ACL 2 and Challenge League are massive improvements over the AFC Cup. Granted, the AFC Cup is the stupidest competition ever and literally anything would be better than that mess, but still I'm definitely looking forward to having tier 2 (and 3) tournaments that aren't terrible!

Honestly I prefer the traditional group format stuff, isn't the ACL Elite similar to the CL new format except divided into east/west. I do agree with the AFC Cup tho, these zones are confusing and the middle east just gets a free pass to the final :confused:

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15 minutes ago, Vakama2619 said:

Honestly I prefer the traditional group format stuff, isn't the ACL Elite similar to the CL new format except divided into east/west. I do agree with the AFC Cup tho, these zones are confusing and the middle east just gets a free pass to the final :confused:

Yeah, probably worse than the UCL though. Going to be 2 groups of 12, with 8 games each and the top 8 from each group going through. Could just do 3 groups of 9 (only 3 extra teams) by adding in a central group and play everybody in the group once instead or something. 8/12 progressing to the next round is weird too. Only 25% of teams getting knocked out in the group stage makes the groups seem kind of pointless.

At least the knockout stages of the ACL Elite sound interesting though, with the QFs, SFs and final all taking place over about 9 days at a host location (hopefully with no east/west split). Could definitely make for a fun end to the season. It's just the group stage that seems worse to me.

Still excited to see how it works out though, and my local team is 1 win away from qualifying too, so I may even go to a game or 2 of it!

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20 minutes ago, rusty217 said:

Yeah, probably worse than the UCL though. Going to be 2 groups of 12, with 8 games each and the top 8 from each group going through. Could just do 3 groups of 9 (only 3 extra teams) by adding in a central group and play everybody in the group once instead or something. 8/12 progressing to the next round is weird too. Only 25% of teams getting knocked out in the group stage makes the groups seem kind of pointless.

At least the knockout stages of the ACL Elite sound interesting though, with the QFs, SFs and final all taking place over about 9 days at a host location (hopefully with no east/west split). Could definitely make for a fun end to the season. It's just the group stage that seems worse to me.

Still excited to see how it works out though, and my local team is 1 win away from qualifying too, so I may even go to a game or 2 of it!

Yeah, not a fan of that knockout, who is your local club btw?

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8 hours ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

yeah especially with continental competitions there are always bound to be loophoples. I've even spend the last 5 days trying to add the new ACL structure but it all goes to ***** lol. 

I considered that but it seems like way too much work, i think you'd have to rebuild the entire coefficient system? Looks daunting

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5 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

I considered that but it seems like way too much work, i think you'd have to rebuild the entire coefficient system? Looks daunting

I got it to work with the current system as well but as soon as I go to replace or delete the official ones, they either all dissapear or game crashses lol.

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2 minutes ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

I got it to work with the current system as well but as soon as I go to replace or delete the official ones, they either all dissapear or game crashses lol.

That makes sense. I wonder if you could keep them around just to hold, like, a hidden stage that would sort teams (and maybe distribute them to other competitions). Maybe just an early qualifying stage.

In FM23 I edited the ACL by wiping the groups and knockouts, so you can make wholesale changes like that as long as it's still there. But it wouldn't surprise me if it crashed anyway with the degree of changes we're talking

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1 minute ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

huh, you know that would probably work. like actually.

Or it would be even better to use the hidden stage for both ACL and AFC Cup and use a total seeding method to then distribute to the three leagues.

This is the type of seed I plant in my head, then go for a walk or something and come back ready to stop butting my head against the wall with a new editing plan :lol:

If you go that route, maybe copy and/or remove the coefficient win/draw settings (points for win and draw etc) and place them in the new comps instead (save a backup first obviously)

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9 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

This is the type of seed I plant in my head, then go for a walk or something and come back ready to stop butting my head against the wall with a new editing plan :lol:

If you go that route, maybe copy and/or remove the coefficient win/draw settings (points for win and draw etc) and place them in the new comps instead (save a backup first obviously)

will do, gonna try and fix my lower league japan stuff first. teams jumping divisions horizontally and I have no idea why

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6 minutes ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

will do, gonna try and fix my lower league japan stuff first. teams jumping divisions horizontally and I have no idea why

I'm sure you've seen but there are some new settings for parent/child comps, in the parent comp under "child competition/regional rules" there are boxes that might need to expressly be checked to "don't reorganize teams into child comps every season". Plus all the normal stuff like the club's "regional division" setting

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5 hours ago, josuts said:

Hello guys.Just a question i have.It regards fm23 but is it possibe to bring back Russia national team to competitions? As i understand this file here is only transfering clubs to competitions only

Short answer yes, just lots of work. I think whether Europe or Asia, you'd still have to rebuild a bunch of the competition structures to account for the extra team and keep everything moving smoothly. Maybe a project for when the final patch is out (so no chance they release a fix that throws things off)

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8 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

I'm sure you've seen but there are some new settings for parent/child comps, in the parent comp under "child competition/regional rules" there are boxes that might need to expressly be checked to "don't reorganize teams into child comps every season". Plus all the normal stuff like the club's "regional division" setting

yeah, its a nightmare, 92 teams in the competition and yet somehow can only find like 60, then I add in another regional division and it can only find 44 even though they are not linked in any way.

image.png.40c3fca34df0d7762e900fcde71df054.pngimage.thumb.png.c1cef1d24147bc8f914a50e23ec59ab6.png

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its not getting confused since they teams are still in game but not active in their or a neibouring league. 

it seems everytime I create a new competition, some teams from the previous competition gets assigned the new competition during testing or some other ffed up reason. tried setting regional divisions, made sure they all had stadiums or lcoal regions, no luck

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1 hour ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

its not getting confused since they teams are still in game but not active in their or a neibouring league. 

it seems everytime I create a new competition, some teams from the previous competition gets assigned the new competition during testing or some other ffed up reason. tried setting regional divisions, made sure they all had stadiums or lcoal regions, no luck

I saw something like that with my parent comp in USA D3 but seemed to have got around it by re-setting everyone's "competition" (even where already set by default) and giving them the same for "next division". Not sure if it's a durable fix mind you

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8 hours ago, themodelcitizen said:

I saw something like that with my parent comp in USA D3 but seemed to have got around it by re-setting everyone's "competition" (even where already set by default) and giving them the same for "next division". Not sure if it's a durable fix mind you

ill try that, theres so many B/reserve teams though lol

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22 hours ago, Robbles Quin ®™ said:

yeah, its a nightmare, 92 teams in the competition and yet somehow can only find like 60, then I add in another regional division and it can only find 44 even though they are not linked in any way.

image.png.40c3fca34df0d7762e900fcde71df054.pngimage.thumb.png.c1cef1d24147bc8f914a50e23ec59ab6.png

I did also find a similar situation - needed 64 teams, it could only "find" 55 - so I changed the stage to have a minimum 55 teams, maximum 64. Thankfully it was a group stage that could accommodate it. In-game, though. it drew with all 64 teams anyway :confused:

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3 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

I did also find a similar situation - needed 64 teams, it could only "find" 55 - so I changed the stage to have a minimum 55 teams, maximum 64. Thankfully it was a group stage that could accommodate it. In-game, though. it drew with all 64 teams anyway :confused:

yeah and setting real life trams for the first season does work but then its the same the second season so no luck.

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Hey, just wondering how you got the continental rules file for this? My usual copy/paste method doesn't seem to work (there's a very slight difference in the output which results in it using the old qualifying system for the 32 team group format instead which causes errors). I kind of want to make changes to the AFC Cup too, but not sure how to extract it like you've done here.

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Oh really? I did the change ACL to Serbia thing to get the rules, and then copied and pasted that entire list into a fresh set of advanced continental rules (and then re-added the entry for the continent again). What's happening with yours? Did you miss a newer version maybe when you copied it over?

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20 minutes ago, themodelcitizen said:

Oh really? I did the change ACL to Serbia thing to get the rules, and then copied and pasted that entire list into a fresh set of advanced continental rules (and then re-added the entry for the continent again). What's happening with yours? Did you miss a newer version maybe when you copied it over?

The only difference I noticed was it was missing the File, Folder and Version boxes on the description page, that's it. I suppose I did copy it over individually rather than the full list at once. Pretty mad that such a small difference could make it revert to the format from 2? years ago though.

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That's so bizarre. Just went to double check and there's only the one set of ACL rules in the DB (no old rules with "end year" set to 2022 or anything). I wonder if something about the missing template made it use a set of rules that used to be in the editor, but isn't there anymore, but maybe is kind of still there? Just not accessible by getting at the continental rules. Glad I haven't seen that.

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