Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[themadsheep2001]

26 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

For those asking for constructive posts, this one is the best I've seen in this thread and basically sums up everything that is/has been wrong with the ME and can be improved. But I doubt a post like that will be taken into consideration because there is no .pkms, screenshots, proofs, etc etc 

But anyone who watches football and would like better representation of the sport in the ME can clearly see what akkm says here. And it won't get better. RDF post above and this one says it all about what's missing in the ME and what could be better, and repeating it is worthless because SI probably is fine with wide players running down the pitch qnd dembeles and Adama traores owning top tier leagues. If you want your Isco to play better or your false 9 role to work, sorry that will not happen. 

The main issue is that what is wrong with the ME can't be called a bug, it's just perception from the eyes of those who watch football and see the massive gap between what goes on in a real match and FM match engine. People dissatisfied with the ME will not bug report that final third central play does not happen, simply because it is not a bug, therefore this will not change.

Thats basically the main frustration with the ME. I watch a lot of matches in full detail, to get the real manager experience, and seeing players making the same forced mistakes every version hurt my eyes. 

I honestly don't see much difference between an intelligent player and a dumb one on the pitch anymore, since physicals have taken over the ME for good.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

See, posts like this are just fundamentally wrong in a lot of ways, saying non bug issues dont get listened to. Where do you think stuff like positional play came from? From concise posting about the need for more positional movement and creating better overload and work in the half spaces. From people posting that we needed a role that tucked in more in the full back position. From others wanting wingers to be really wide but still also cut. So SI took all of those various suggestions and tried to put them together because so much of it is interlinked - hence the position play we see. But these things take time, sometimes an iteration or two. 

Even with the F9 and rotating attackers, SI actually stated they would have liked to have added more rotations but then positional play would have missed FM24. 

Not only that everyone has different constructive thoughts and there are lots of them. And SI might not necessarily agree. But even if you have an constructive idea and SI agree and the devs want to go with it - taking that to a fully fledged action takes as long as a piece of string. Can be in the next patch, or might be a major thing that takes an interation or two, depending on whats being asked 

 

[gggfunk]

13 minutes ago, Polando said:

Miles mentioned that there will be another update in a month. I understand that it will only apply to squads and matters that do not affect the match engine? So there will be no more interference in ME in FM24? Can i finally start a long save without any worries?

I strongly believe so. If there was no ME changes within the yesterday's Main Winter update, there shouldn't be any in the last one which, I suppose, will be only a small data update.

[tezcatlipoca665]

I'm guessing that any tweaks to the match engine will be saved for FM25. If they've split the development team between a minority tidying up FM24 and the majority getting ready for FM25, any potential updates made to the match engine for FM24 would probably disrupt what's going on with them working on the match engine in FM25, since I'm almost certain some of the more recent animations etc. have been carried over to Unity for them to continue work there.

[IrishRovers]

I'm having a fun save with Bristol Rovers, although 2 playoff losses in 2 years tested my patience. 

My two main bits of feedback are firstly that squad building feels two easy - in the Championship I've managed to bring in players on a free, sell them for loads of money, replace them with better players on a free, year on year. I know it's always been a bit like this but I think it's easier than ever in spite of the shonky scouting mechanisms. 

Secondly a specific goal where a corner gets cleared once or twice and a player, often the corner taker, pops up on the angle of the box to score, recurs incredibly often. Again there's always been patterns of play you start to see recurring if you play too much but this one feels especially egregious (and not like something that happens v often in Real Football). 

Overall though I'm enjoying it. The Premiership is beckoning this year, trust the process.

 

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Ive said this for a few years, id like to see them to a more detailed road map with greater communication but I'm not convinced that it wouldn't be ruined by a sizable minority on there. And we've seen it the few times they have tried to map it ahead, the womens football thread in particular. Communication goes both ways, its not about SI simply telling people what they would like to hear

And that's exactly the problem.  Like I said, I'd like that too, but I can completely see why SI would be reticent to do that with the way things are.  And I'm not pretending like it's death threats and anarchy (we've not gotten that bad, luckily) but look at Dynamic PA Dynamic Youth Rating (oops) as an example.  Communicated as a new feature, and everyone got excited.  Way too excited in a lot of cases, because what they imagined that meant was way off what SI imagined it meant (the latter being a lot closer to reality in my opinion).  Could that have been communicated more effectively to stop the hype train?  Possibly, but it shows that positivity can be a problem too when it gets out of hand.  

Ultimately, certain people just have a stance in mind, and they'll twist anything to fit that.  I see nothing but negatives to SI really starting to communicate more.  Anything that lessens that pushes it into "what's the point" territory.

Edited March 1 by forameuss

[Kloppy]

My game will not update. Keeps starting and pausing straight away.....

Verified files and all seems to be good.

 

[-Jef-]

6 minutes ago, forameuss said:

And that's exactly the problem.  Like I said, I'd like that too, but I can completely see why SI would be reticent to do that with the way things are.  And I'm not pretending like it's death threats and anarchy (we've not gotten that bad, luckily) but look at Dynamic PA as an example.  Communicated as a new feature, and everyone got excited.  Way too excited in a lot of cases, because what they imagined that meant was way off what SI imagined it meant (the latter being a lot closer to reality in my opinion).  Could that have been communicated more effectively to stop the hype train?  Possibly, but it shows that positivity can be a problem too when it gets out of hand.  

Ultimately, certain people just have a stance in mind, and they'll twist anything to fit that.  I see nothing but negatives to SI really starting to communicate more.  Anything that lessens that pushes it into "what's the point" territory.

When was dynamic PA communicated as a new feature? Or you mean dynamic youth rating?

[forameuss]

3 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

When was dynamic PA communicated as a new feature? Or you mean dynamic youth rating?

Ah, sorry, you're right.  Dynamic Youth Rating, will edit that.

[Carambau]

6 minutes ago, Kloppy said:

My game will not update. Keeps starting and pausing straight away.....

Verified files and all seems to be good.

 

Maybe your hard drive is full?

[Kloppy]

7 minutes ago, Carambau said:

Maybe your hard drive is full?

 

Will uninstall game and try again

 

Edit: Seemingly worked. Now to see did my bug reports be acted on..............

Edited March 1 by Kloppy

[Davienene]

2 hours ago, Iakovenko said:

But always a goal conceded, never picking out someone in space that leads to me scoring 

That happens,even to ederson ,and I imagine your gk or your team duel winning esp on areals is a lot worse than city and ederson 

[diLLa88]

3 hours ago, XaW said:

This, really. Mods or SI will never remove negative comments as long as they don't are insulting. Actual good constructive negative feedback is very good, as it's something that helps the game improve.

Bugs should be reported in the bug tracker with examples of it. Here is the place for general how the game feels or if a feature is good or bad.

For anyone who want to post something, feel free to do so, but in additon to say what you dislike, also try to explain how it would be better. The more detail the better.

Just want to highlight the bold statement here, because does it really?

Bugs currently present in the game have been reported for years, with no fixes anywhere to be seen. If you want constructive posts, let us dig into our post history a few years back and we will probably find reports that are still relevant to this day. I don't really see the point in reiterating the same points again and again.

And that is precisely why people are dissappointed in this edition. It was supposed to be the most complete edition ever, and most promises have not been fulfilled.

[Iakovenko]

2 minutes ago, Davienene said:

That happens,even to ederson ,and I imagine your gk or your team duel winning esp on areals is a lot worse than city and ederson 

And where have I said this should never happen? It shouldn't only happen that I concede from my keeper going long rather than short as instructed 

[-Jef-]

10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Ah, sorry, you're right.  Dynamic Youth Rating, will edit that.

Got me all excited I missed it somewhere

[Iakovenko]

One thing I am pleased to see is that half a season in and Ipswich haven't transfer listed Leif Davies because he didn't have a future at the club. As an Ipswich fan that used to drive me wild 

[Fieldsy]

Just my thoughts....

I think the most disappointing thing through the last 2 days is the silence from SI.  Previous posts have suggested more transparency but to have a patch called 'data update' and no match engine changes without any reasoning why just makes me think 'they don't care'.  I'm not necessarily SI don't care but that is the perception the past 48 hours has given.   All it has caused is frustration and anger.

I would have had more respect if SI had come out to either say 'we are happy with the current match engine and wont be making any changes' - at least that gives clarity as to how they think about THIER game and we can make a choice of continuing to play or leave it.

Or, that we have now focused all our attention onto FM25 with getting that right and therefore the final match engine changes for FM24 was the December update.

Whether people would have been happy about either of those statements is unknown but at least they would have said something......

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, diLLa88 said:

Just want to highlight the bold statement here, because does it really?

Bugs currently present in the game have been reported for years, with no fixes anywhere to be seen. If you want constructive posts, let us dig into our post history a few years back and we will probably find reports that are still relevant to this day. I don't really see the point in reiterating the same points again and again.

And that is precisely why people are dissappointed in this edition. It was supposed to be the most complete edition ever, and most promises have not been fulfilled.

Will all bugs be fixed? Or all feedback implemented? No, of course not, but I've personally reported bugs and given suggestions that are now in the game. It's all part of prioritizing from their side, and I don't agree with many things they've done. I'd personally focus more on bug fixes and polish if I had my say.

And I'm not saying you shouldn't be disappointed, that's something that is individual to each and everyone of us, and you can have your view.

For what it's worth, I think SI should be more open and transparent with users both in terms of expectations and roadmaps, etc.

[JamieTC13]

20 hours ago, WelshMourinho said:

3 out of 4 of my attackers are on support roles there and not one of them decides to drop into that absolute ****ing sea of space behind the City midfield. 

That's the sort of nonsense this match engine produces regularly, and here we are after months with a mere data update. 

This is why i've stopped playing the game its gone way to far now to be even decent, i've noticed so many little things like that, its unreal and it totally ruins it for me, so i just hope that FM25 will be the real deal but not banking on it tbf

Edited March 1 by JamieTC13

[diLLa88]

5 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

Just my thoughts....

I think the most disappointing thing through the last 2 days is the silence from SI.  Previous posts have suggested more transparency but to have a patch called 'data update' and no match engine changes without any reasoning why just makes me think 'they don't care'.  I'm not necessarily SI don't care but that is the perception the past 48 hours has given.   All it has caused is frustration and anger.

I would have had more respect if SI had come out to either say 'we are happy with the current match engine and wont be making any changes' - at least that gives clarity as to how they think about THIER game and we can make a choice of continuing to play or leave it.

Or, that we have now focused all our attention onto FM25 with getting that right and therefore the final match engine changes for FM24 was the December update.

Whether people would have been happy about either of those statements is unknown but at least they would have said something......

Data updates are relevant for FM25, so might as well include them as a patch in FM24 to keep us "happy" I'm sure. Match engine updates are worthless for FM25, so no efforts put into that I assume.

[NineCloudNine]

One thing I've not seen mentioned among the complaints: this is an enormous data update. In fact the changes are SO huge that it's made me wonder if something went wrong with the initial database! Yet even with all this work there are some egregious errors. There is still very little consistency in how player histories and achievements are included and formatted. Many players' entries - and not by any means obscure ones - contain errors that a simple Google search would correct. And when the Spanish national team goalkeeper has all zeros (random) for his character attributes, something has gone awry. I greatly admire the dedication and effort of the research teams but I sometimes wonder if the sheer scale of the task is overwhelming. This stuff really matters to me. Given that it's unlikely to change, my #1 feature request for FM25 is to be able to edit playing histories and acheievements with the IGE as well as the PGE. Yes, I'm that much of a nerd !

Edited March 1 by NineCloudNine

[JamieTC13]

16 hours ago, makavali said:

No changes to the match engine. I'm speechless. 

This whole FM24 thing together with the disgusting lack of communication is so bad you can't believe it's real. What a truly sad day. 

Same here mate, and its pretty shocking really and very disappointing considering Miles said it will be the most complete edition yet and tbf its very far from being that 

[zeza]

5 horas atrás, -Jef- disse:

Did you put PA to 0 stars as well or are you just stubborn?

No need to call out names, Jef.

In my opinion if I put 0 stars (5 gray ones) it should return basically every player available in the area of my scouting range, that's why Recommendation Focuses exist, to make custom searches automatically.

If I'm trying to find a 1 CA, 3 PA player, it should have a good pool of players being found. but somehow this year's game simply doesn't find the players at ALL.
If I try to find a 5 grey star CA, 1 PA player, it should return 90% of the players of the database, but I can bet I won't get near 20 recs.

[-Jef-]

Being stubborn is not calling out names, zeza.

 

6 minutes ago, zeza said:

No need to call out names, Jef.

In my opinion if I put 0 stars (5 gray ones) it should return basically every player available in the area of my scouting range, that's why Recommendation Focuses exist, to make custom searches automatically.

If I'm trying to find a 1 CA, 3 PA player, it should have a good pool of players being found. but somehow this year's game simply doesn't find the players at ALL.
If I try to find a 5 grey star CA, 1 PA player, it should return 90% of the players of the database, but I can bet I won't get near 20 recs.

Maybe try what I suggested and then come to conclusions. You'll never get 90% of the database with extensive knowledge after 2 weeks in any focus.

[zeza]

8 minutos atrás, -Jef- disse:

Maybe try what I suggested and then come to conclusions

Ongoing or Normal priority?

[D-Foxx]

One of those days ..

[-Jef-]

10 minutes ago, zeza said:

Ongoing or Normal priority?

Ongoing.

 

Another thing to consider is that through my limited tests with Barca, players that will not sign (interest) or are too expensive to buy will not appear in focus.

[endtime]

7 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

Ongoing.

 

Another thing to consider is that through my limited tests with Barca, players that will not sign (interest) or are too expensive to buy will not appear in focus.

This has not been my experience, players who are uninterested still appear in focuses and can be filtered out using the "not interested" checkbox.

Can someone check if scouting competitions now produces any results?

[zeza]

2 minutos atrás, -Jef- disse:

Ongoing.

 

Another thing to consider is that through my limited tests with Barca, players that will not sign (interest) or are too expensive to buy will not appear in focus.

 

It should appear in the Focus regardless of their interest. That's why we have a filter for it.

 

[-Jef-]

3 minutes ago, zeza said:

 

It should appear in the Focus regardless of their interest. That's why we have a filter for it.

 

Iirc someone with blue name said that interest plays a part. I do agree with you on this.

Edited March 1 by -Jef-

[whatsupdoc]

On 01/03/2024 at 05:35, WelshMourinho said:

3 out of 4 of my attackers are on support roles there and not one of them decides to drop into that absolute ****ing sea of space behind the City midfield. 

That's the sort of nonsense this match engine produces regularly, and here we are after months with a mere data update. 

 

This is one of many reasons why "play out from the back" isn't overly useful at the moment (putting it kindly).

Hopefully all the detailed posts in various forums on this kind of issue are closely looked at before FM25. 

I question how much interest there is from SI in making detailed changes to things like this. I made a detailed series of posts in November on playing out, some of which i'll copy below:

 

Playing out from the back with a half back is not coded well. 

If you want to emulate "positional play", the 10 (Baldanzi) should be "level and outside" of the opponent's central midfielder, or between the lines behind him.

The idea being that to actually use the 3v2 you have created by dropping the 6 between the centre backs, you cannot have your 10 drag their midfield closer to your goal and congest the space with numbers by also dropping in. His job is to do the opposite, to create space so the 3v2 can play.

The idea when playing out is to "break lines". To do this players need to position themselves between lines, or in a position where their first touch can break a line. The half back against two strikers drops in to create a 3v2 and break the first line. The 10s job is to help break the midfield line.

In FM the 10 ("advanced playmaker") is hard-coded to come short when he is on the near (ball) side. This is the opposite of what a 10 or an advanced playmaker should do if you're playing "positional" football. 

 

 

Similar with the "8" on the other side. Coaches either decide to "stagger" the 8 and 10 (have them diagonally linked on different lines, as pictured above) or just have them both start as 10s with their positioning to create space. 

Probably not something you can code for fm24 but hopefully in the future.

 

Posts like the above seem to get zero engagement from SI (the thread is still sitting there, listed as "open" with no comments). 

Presumably changing something like this would require them to re-code how a "playmaker" moves and not have him always sucked toward the ball. A big piece of work no doubt, but an important one if you do want to emulate football.

It doesn't help that it's one of a few big issues with playing out. The other that comes to mind immediately is how the full-backs move. After the initial playing out setup kicks in, they often play in a similar way, getting sucked towards the ball facing their own goal and congesting space rather than stretching the pitch. 

I think what it all comes down to is that the match engine code is so complex that making these kinds of changes now borders on impossible due to the knock on effects. 

I hope one day they re-write it from scratch with the help of some serious coaching professionals. 

Edited March 1 by whatsupdoc

[Kaminsky]

4 hours ago, JamieTC13 said:

Same here mate, and its pretty shocking really and very disappointing considering Miles said it will be the most complete edition yet and tbf its very far from being that 

"A love letter to Football Manager........"

You've got to admire the man. I'll always think of that line when I hear Miles' name from now on.

[g1nh0]

4 hours ago, JamieTC13 said:

Same here mate, and its pretty shocking really and very disappointing considering Miles said it will be the most complete edition yet and tbf its very far from being that 

I'll always remember this as the most disappointing because it was the least complete, the least cared for, and the worst of the most recent FM games in the most important aspect resulting in not a realistic management sim, but an unrealistic one.

[SPE3D]

I read the problems other people have and yet I don't seem to get them. I've logged almost 500 hours playing this game and in that time I have seen poor player interactions but they made sense to me and I understood why they happened.  I've had times where I had very few scout reports but then again I had very few scouts at that time and they were of poor quality.

I have a lot of leagues loaded and I play the game with a maturity and experience of a man of my age. Is it perfect? No but this game is the most realistic version I have ever played. 

[Delicate Dave]

This is a very simple request - When a assistant manager recommends a first-team selection can they please put the players in the right positions when the are two similar positions to fill? Ie if there is a BWM and AP in a two man midfield please put the BWM in the BWM position and not the AP. This happens too with 2 strikers and the CBS. The system seems to like putting them the wrong way around just to see if you are paying attention. Makes me wonder what goes on when I go on holiday :-)

[rlipscombe]

9 hours ago, dannyo666 said:

I had this...i logged out of steam..logged out of the steam client itself but also i was logged in to steam on my web browser(chrome) so i logged off both of these.....restarted my pc and i followed what @Mush1983 said and bingo-Im running windows 11 also and have been having problems with certain issues....Not sure which method actually worked but it did work so hope this helps you...

@dannyo666 @Mush1983 thanks ever so much for your help.  my game is working again now.  Life savers!! 

[Jellico73]

10 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

It’s interesting how often people use what the graphics highlight shows as evidence of weaknesses in the match engine. They aren’t the same thing.

Player sprites do weird stuff and the selection of “highlights” can be eccentric, but then I go into the data centre and see that my players are doing pretty much what I asked of them.

I wonder also if the positive reaction to positional play is partly because we can see it happen right before our eyes, whereas pressing and defensive actions are poorly depicted by the graphics engine, even if they obviously are happening.

I think that's some of it, but not all of it, if that makes sense.

[Jellico73]

5 hours ago, zeza said:

No need to call out names, Jef.

In my opinion if I put 0 stars (5 gray ones) it should return basically every player available in the area of my scouting range, that's why Recommendation Focuses exist, to make custom searches automatically.

If I'm trying to find a 1 CA, 3 PA player, it should have a good pool of players being found. but somehow this year's game simply doesn't find the players at ALL.
If I try to find a 5 grey star CA, 1 PA player, it should return 90% of the players of the database, but I can bet I won't get near 20 recs.

 

It's a recruitment focus.  How many different game/practice sessions do you think a scout can attend in a week, and then how many reports are you going to get back in two weeks?  Even a geographically "small" country  getting a 90% return on players is next to impossible.

That said, if you want to build up your player pool size even in countries you aren't scouting use screenflow.  Works at any level, regardless of what team you are.  Just invest in a wrist brace though. :-)

[glenjamin]

On 29/02/2024 at 22:56, glenjamin said:

• Tweaks to AI logic when evaluating whether to loan list young players

Can an SI member of staff clarify more regarding this change? My biggest gripe has been the lack of development in young players with enormous potential sitting in their club's reserves for season after season. Has this change been seen to rectify the problem and to what degree?

Could one of you guys answer this for me instead seen as though I don't think any SI member is going to? 

It's a big factor in me deciding whether to start a new game or not. 

[Itego]

how do I fix this, I can't load game after updating 

[akkm]

13 hours ago, Rodrigogc said:

For those asking for constructive posts, this one is the best I've seen in this thread and basically sums up everything that is/has been wrong with the ME and can be improved. But I doubt a post like that will be taken into consideration because there is no .pkms, screenshots, proofs, etc etc 

But anyone who watches football and would like better representation of the sport in the ME can clearly see what akkm says here. And it won't get better. RDF post above and this one says it all about what's missing in the ME and what could be better, and repeating it is worthless because SI probably is fine with wide players running down the pitch qnd dembeles and Adama traores owning top tier leagues. If you want your Isco to play better or your false 9 role to work, sorry that will not happen. 

The main issue is that what is wrong with the ME can't be called a bug, it's just perception from the eyes of those who watch football and see the massive gap between what goes on in a real match and FM match engine. People dissatisfied with the ME will not bug report that final third central play does not happen, simply because it is not a bug, therefore this will not change.

Thats basically the main frustration with the ME. I watch a lot of matches in full detail, to get the real manager experience, and seeing players making the same forced mistakes every version hurt my eyes. 

I honestly don't see much difference between an intelligent player and a dumb one on the pitch anymore, since physicals have taken over the ME for good.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Well said. You're fundamentally correct about some of the fundamentals missing from the match engine simulation . It is a concern that SI isn't seeing it as well as it should on this and most years leans towards the more rudimentary way of playing (width/crossing/balls through the air) to produce goals/chances and seems content with that or at least happy enough to keep putting out (broadly speaking) the same fare year in year out.

Of course certain elements have been attempted development wise (chaos factor/increased effects of pressing most notably in the last couple of years) so it's not to say nothing has happened but they seem to have displaced certain elements of creativity which were more prevalent in fm21 & fm22. This just shouldn't be the case however many years into the development of the match engine. I'm well aware of the how complex the code must be and to produce what it produces is already wildly impressive but the issue is the output is only as good as the inputs. Of course things have knock ons and can take time but there are too many knock ons which result in things going around in circles and something 'breaking' something else...then fixing that...resulting in breaking another thing ad infinitum.

At this stage I've seen some really good stuff in some years but generally things are off so it seems SI CAN code certain fundamentally good behaviours at times but overall it seems there aren't enough good behaviours being input (ie width/crossing dependency has generally been too overpowered) which is indicative of views of football not seeing what's missing.

Even the positional play this year...sure it's decent and different from before but so much more is needed. As @whatsupdocpointed out above elements that are still missing. To me these are basics that should have been 'inputs' from the conception of the match engine. Call it whatever you want (positional play) but it's really elementary elements of how to pass and move the ball around situationally. Players need to be dynamically aware of their team mates and opposition to offer themselves to move the ball around offering angles/positions to receive passes to break lines and build a move up and around the pitch. I've posted on this to SI years back that this stuff was needed to improve fundamentals to better simulate football passing and movement from a decision making point of view. This would wean the engine off it's dependency on width crossing and mean balancing would be far easier to achieve. Teach the AI better fundamentals and the output will be better. 

From there once passing and moving is on point the AI can be taught and learn better tactical and defensive elements to react to and cope better with well simulated offensive fundamentals. 

Unfortunately the stuck in the mud development seems to have become the norm with efforts to address core elements just not happening well and we are left with what we are left with currently

[kiwityke1983]

I've made it to the late 2030's so am seeing the last of the original real database players reach the ends of their careers and I have to say I've been really disappointed in the AI's ability to squad build across my entire career.

But in particular the amount of regen superstars is incredibly low, with most players progress seemingly being stalled out due to the fact they spend 4-5 years on loan in lower leagues then spend 2-3 years sat behind some 34 year old on 300k a week!

This has created a knock on effect at lower levels, with Championship and L1 clubs stocked to the brim with Premier League loanees and therefore blocking off those clubs producing their own talent who are loaned out further down the pyramid...you guessed it blocking those clubs player development.

You can see this in action across my entire career:

My first move was from a National league team to Relegation threatened L1 Barnsley.

They had 8 players on loan in the first team, had never sold a player for more than a few hundred thousand and had created 1 player of their own in 4 seasons and we're in a massive financial hole as a result.

I sold 24 million pounds worth of players who were first teamers but didn't fit my tactical approach in my first season and did what the club does IRL buy young promising players for a fraction of that.

The AI is seemingly incapable of doing this it will just hang on to a Callum Styles even if he isn't playing and pay him a relative small fortune to do so and even worse he isn't playing because they've got a player on loan from the Premier league.

My second move was to Celtic, whose squad had only one Scottish player in it Callum McGregor who was by this time in his late 30's (37 from memory).

The squad was also just full of players the AI had spent massive money (for Scotland) on who were the wrong side of 30.

Causing massive issues with European registration and no doubt had I not joined within a few season huge issues financially.

So I did what Celtic should be doing buying young promising Scottish players from other SPFL clubs, plus supplementing those with the odd player from more far flung places like Japan etc.

I think I brought in 7 in total for less than half the  money that the AI had spent on a 31 year old centre-back.

The AI again is seemingly incapable of doing what I did.

My third move was to Liverpool.

They were an utter mess. 130 million in the red, and 500k over the wage budget of 5.5 million per week.

At least 4 players 33+ with CA at championship level on 350-400k per week! (Who of course nobody wanted to buy not even the Saudis).

Having managed to move on some of them I brought in the kids with potential from the youth team to plug gaps in the squad as the transfer budget was 5 million pounds with only 30% of sales added to it.

Had I not joined Liverpool I seriously think the AI would have bankrupted them within a few years.

Which brings me to my fourth move into the England managers job and my squad has just 3 great regens in it and two of those I developed at Liverpool!

The other came through at Chelsea.

So although I think the AI's willingness to loan players out has increased massively, it hasn't actual led to regen players developing beyond just endlessly being loaned out to a level they stagnate at.

And this is one of the big problems with FM it's taken me playing solidly since day one to get to this point where I can say, yeah I think AI squad building and regen development is kind of woeful.

But still slightly better than FM23.

Edited March 2 by kiwityke1983

[sthptngomad76]

41 minutes ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've made it to the late 2030's so am seeing the last of the original real database players reach the ends of their careers and I have to say I've been really disappointed in the AI's ability to squad build across my entire career.

But in particular the amount of regen superstars is incredibly low, with most players progress seemingly being stalled out due to the fact they spend 4-5 years on loan in lower leagues then spend 2-3 years sat behind some 34 year old on 300k a week!

This has created a knock on effect at lower levels, with Championship and L1 clubs stocked to the brim with Premier League loanees and therefore blocking off those clubs producing their own talent who are loaned out further down the pyramid...you guessed it blocking those clubs player development.

You can see this in action across my entire career:

My first move was from a National league team to Relegation threatened L1 Barnsley.

They had 8 players on loan in the first team, had never sold a player for more than a few hundred thousand and had created 1 player of their own in 4 seasons and we're in a massive financial hole as a result.

I sold 24 million pounds worth of players who were first teamers but didn't fit my tactical approach in my first season and did what the club does IRL buy young promising players for a fraction of that.

The AI is seemingly incapable of doing this it will just hang on to a Callum Styles even if he isn't playing and pay him a relative small fortune to do so and even worse he isn't playing because they've got a player on loan from the Premier league.

My second move was to Celtic, whose squad had only one Scottish player in it Callum McGregor who was by this time in his late 30's (37 from memory).

The squad was also just full of players the AI had spent massive money (for Scotland) on who were the wrong side of 30.

Causing massive issues with European registration and no doubt had I not joined within a few season huge issues financially.

So I did what Celtic should be doing buying young promising Scottish players from other SPFL clubs, plus supplementing those with the odd player from more far flung places like Japan etc.

I think I brought in 7 in total for less than half the  money that the AI had spent on a 31 year old centre-back.

The AI again is seemingly incapable of doing what I did.

My third move was to Liverpool.

They were an utter mess. 130 million in the red, and 500k over the wage budget of 5.5 million per week.

At least 4 players 33+ with CA at championship level on 350-400k per week! (Who of course nobody wanted to buy not even the Saudis).

Having managed to move on some of them I brought in the kids with potential from the youth team to plug gaps in the squad as the transfer budget was 5 million pounds with only 30% of sales added to it.

Had I not joined Liverpool I seriously think the AI would have bankrupted them within a few years.

Which brings me to my fourth move into the England managers job and my squad has just 3 great regens in it and two of those I developed at Liverpool!

The other came through at Chelsea.

So although I think the AI's willingness to loan players out has increased massively, it hasn't actual led to regen players developing beyond just endlessly being loaned out to a level they stagnate at.

And this is one of the big problems with FM it's taken me playing solidly since day one to get to this point where I can say, yeah I think AI squad building and regen development is kind of woeful.

But still slightly better than FM23.

Great summary. Has anyone played long enough with daveincd’s realism mod to see what effect that has? 

[endtime]

1 hour ago, sthptngomad76 said:

Great summary. Has anyone played long enough with daveincd’s realism mod to see what effect that has? 

I played 10 seasons and there were two newgen players in the annual "top 50 players list", so not much really.

[ATV]

On 01/03/2024 at 01:29, dosh said:

Has a major .3 patch ever been released so poorly, with so few changes? Even if SI is focusing their manpower on FM25, they shouldn't be compromising the user experience of FM24. 

Don't forget. The overwhelming majority of people who buy the FM series are existing users.

Miles and co won't care - the number of players and purchases is ultimatley what they care about most. Evidently so, as the lack of improvements suggest its cash over quality

[Reiver]

The new way scouting system works makes no sense at lower level. I am playing a 4th tier team in Portugal. I want to scout players from the youth team of another team in the same city that my team is from - but since it's somehow outside my "scouting range", I can't afford to do it. The teams play in the same stadium, are you telling me my scout can't afford to go to a couple of under 19 games that are free?

[NineCloudNine]

6 hours ago, kiwityke1983 said:

I've made it to the late 2030's so am seeing the last of the original real database players reach the ends of their careers and I have to say I've been really disappointed in the AI's ability to squad build across my entire career.

But in particular the amount of regen superstars is incredibly low, with most players progress seemingly being stalled out due to the fact they spend 4-5 years on loan in lower leagues then spend 2-3 years sat behind some 34 year old on 300k a week!

This has created a knock on effect at lower levels, with Championship and L1 clubs stocked to the brim with Premier League loanees and therefore blocking off those clubs producing their own talent who are loaned out further down the pyramid...you guessed it blocking those clubs player development.

You can see this in action across my entire career:

My first move was from a National league team to Relegation threatened L1 Barnsley.

They had 8 players on loan in the first team, had never sold a player for more than a few hundred thousand and had created 1 player of their own in 4 seasons and we're in a massive financial hole as a result.

I sold 24 million pounds worth of players who were first teamers but didn't fit my tactical approach in my first season and did what the club does IRL buy young promising players for a fraction of that.

The AI is seemingly incapable of doing this it will just hang on to a Callum Styles even if he isn't playing and pay him a relative small fortune to do so and even worse he isn't playing because they've got a player on loan from the Premier league.

My second move was to Celtic, whose squad had only one Scottish player in it Callum McGregor who was by this time in his late 30's (37 from memory).

The squad was also just full of players the AI had spent massive money (for Scotland) on who were the wrong side of 30.

Causing massive issues with European registration and no doubt had I not joined within a few season huge issues financially.

So I did what Celtic should be doing buying young promising Scottish players from other SPFL clubs, plus supplementing those with the odd player from more far flung places like Japan etc.

I think I brought in 7 in total for less than half the  money that the AI had spent on a 31 year old centre-back.

The AI again is seemingly incapable of doing what I did.

My third move was to Liverpool.

They were an utter mess. 130 million in the red, and 500k over the wage budget of 5.5 million per week.

At least 4 players 33+ with CA at championship level on 350-400k per week! (Who of course nobody wanted to buy not even the Saudis).

Having managed to move on some of them I brought in the kids with potential from the youth team to plug gaps in the squad as the transfer budget was 5 million pounds with only 30% of sales added to it.

Had I not joined Liverpool I seriously think the AI would have bankrupted them within a few years.

Which brings me to my fourth move into the England managers job and my squad has just 3 great regens in it and two of those I developed at Liverpool!

The other came through at Chelsea.

So although I think the AI's willingness to loan players out has increased massively, it hasn't actual led to regen players developing beyond just endlessly being loaned out to a level they stagnate at.

And this is one of the big problems with FM it's taken me playing solidly since day one to get to this point where I can say, yeah I think AI squad building and regen development is kind of woeful.

But still slightly better than FM23.

This does feel like something that could be much more aggressively addressed by SI. Development of young players for sale is fundamental to many clubs’ survival. I always play with the South American talent factories - Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay - in full detail and heavily scouted. Clubs there IRL actively push good young players into the first teams. This doesn’t happen in FM. Their kids don’t develop, they don’t get game time and they aren’t actively recruited by AI teams from richer leagues.

On the face of it this doesn’t seem like it should be hard to fix. Club, national, board and manager preferences/tendencies all exist which should guide this behaviour, but seem not to.

In one save I undid Endrick’s future transfer to Real Madrid. He was largely a bench-warmer for Palmeiras, he barely improved in 2 years and no European club tried to buy him. Luis Guilherme didn’t play a single minute for Palmeiras’ first team in this time.

My guess is that this is simply not something most casual FM players care about and thus is not an SI priority. 

Edited March 2 by NineCloudNine

[Bahoi]

58 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

This does feel like something that could be much more aggressively addressed by SI. Development of young players for sale is fundamental to many clubs’ survival. I always play with the South American talent factories - Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay - in full detail and heavily scouted. Clubs there IRL actively push good young players into the first teams. This doesn’t happen in FM. Their kids don’t develop, they don’t get game time and they aren’t actively recruited by AI teams from richer leagues.

On the face of it this doesn’t seem like it should be hard to fix. Club, national, board and manager preferences/tendencies all exist which should guide this behaviour, but seem not to.

In one save I undid Endrick’s future transfer to Real Madrid. He was largely a bench-warmer for Palmeiras, he barely improved in 2 years and no European club tried to buy him. Luis Guilherme didn’t play a single minute for Palmeiras’ first team in this time.

My guess is that this is simply not something most casual FM players care about and thus is not an SI priority. 

It's what would make you not buy fm25. They figured this one out a couple of editions ago. And right now it's working as intended.

[f.zaarour]

The fact that its impossible to sign Mbappe with Real Madrid in this FM24 is just utterly shamefull and so frustrating! Where is the realism in that!? 

In many ways trying and its just impossible, the club accepts the offer, then its saying Mbappe denied to negotiate contract as we dont have the financial power to get him! That makes no sense! Real Madrid not having the financial power, lol! 

 

Meanwhile in real life it seems that Mbappe is moving towards Real Madrid this summer! What a joke!  

 

Edit: Ah nvm, for the first time ever, im gonna try and use the pre editor to see if i can fix this. 

Edited March 2 by f.zaarour

[chris72]

match engine still bit boring anyone else agree?

 

I'm watching on extended highlights and spend most of my time reading commentary

 

passing is very slow and boring 

 

 

[Ronaldo Beckham]

Since the new winter update has come out I can't start a new game with any of the added countries/leagues files working now.

Any reason for this?