Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[The Danimal]

The amount of injuries I'm getting is staggering. 

A twisted ankle per week. It's satire at this point.

[NineCloudNine]

1 hour ago, The Danimal said:

The amount of injuries I'm getting is staggering. 

A twisted ankle per week. It's satire at this point.

Still less than real life. Have you seen Newcastle’s injury list this season?

Plenty of players use a mod which *increases* injury rates to something more realistic.

Edited January 19 by NineCloudNine

[KingCanary]

Just had another great example of transfer AI being all over the place.

I'm managing Norwich, in the 27-28 season. Last 3 seasons we've finished 6th, 1st and 2nd in the League, won the FA Cup, got to the Champions League final and won the Europa League.

I'm interested in Rav van den Berg at Feeyanord. He's a great central defender and has a clause meaning a Champions League club can have him for £24m. Lovely. Make a bid, accepted. Juventus and West Ham are also bidding, although West Ham aren't in the Champions League so have to pay more. Agent tells me he's very interested in signing for Norwich. Great. 

Negotiations kick off. He wants to be an Important Player £175k rising to £235k after 5 international caps (he already has one). I go back with £180k, no international rise (exclude that from negotiations. He says £210k. I say £185k, he says £210k, I say £190k, eventually I call off negotiations as I don't need him that badly and I find players/agents who aren't open to negotiating **** me off.

Two days later he's rejected Juventus (in the Champions League) in favour of West Ham (10th, 11th and 13th last three seasons, no European football). Not only that but he's signed a deal as a regular starter being £100k p/w, rising to £130k after 5 international appearances. So we have a player who wouldn't budge of £210k signing a deal for less playing time, no European football and, even if he hits that wage increase, £80k less per week! 

 

[KingCanary]

Another thing to flag (sorry for the multiple posts, I'm mid game and post if I see something).

Star striker was annoyed I rejected a bid from PSG. Had the chat, said I'll let you go if anyone triggers your release clause (£105m). Nobody has done. Happy days. I've just had a message saying 'he understands recent injury problems will affect when I'll be in a position to keep my promise of selling him but he does expect to see swift progress on this front in the near future.'

Huh? I promised I'd sell if anyone bid. They didn't. At no point was it agreed I'd be proactive in trying to sell him so what 'swift progress' he's expecting to see from me I do not know. 

[NineCloudNine]

46 minutes ago, KingCanary said:

Negotiations kick off. He wants to be an Important Player £175k rising to £235k after 5 international caps (he already has one). I go back with £180k, no international rise (exclude that from negotiations. He says £210k. I say £185k, he says £210k, I say £190k, eventually I call off negotiations as I don't need him that badly and I find players/agents who aren't open to negotiating **** me off.

Two days later he's rejected Juventus (in the Champions League) in favour of West Ham (10th, 11th and 13th last three seasons, no European football). Not only that but he's signed a deal as a regular starter being £100k p/w, rising to £130k after 5 international appearances. So we have a player who wouldn't budge of £210k signing a deal for less playing time, no European football and, even if he hits that wage increase, £80k less per week! 

 

The first paragraph here describes a perfectly normal situation - you couldn't agree, walk away - that happens all the time IRL.

The second is weird ofc, so I suspect what has happened is that he has systematically rejected all the good offers and been left only with the West Ham one. He didn't 'choose' West Ham as such, just that the AI somehow sequences things such that the player can't play clubs off against each other as would happen IRL - instead, each negotiation is treated as a standalone take-it-or-leave-it event.

Edited January 19 by NineCloudNine

[KingCanary]

39 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

The first paragraph here describes a perfectly normal situation - you couldn't agree, walk away - that happens all the time IRL.

The second is weird ofc, so I suspect what has happened is that he has systematically rejected all the good offers and been left only with the West Ham one. He didn't 'choose' West Ham as such, just that the AI somehow sequences things such that the player can't play clubs off against each other as would happen IRL - instead, each negotiation is treated as a standalone take-it-or-leave-it event.

Yeah I think this is it- irl the player would likely come back to me and say 'hey, about that contract we were discussing.' Instead it seems like they have a wage they'll accept from me and a wage they'll accept from West Ham so when one meets his club specific demands he signs.

[kiingallen]

1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:

The first paragraph here describes a perfectly normal situation - you couldn't agree, walk away - that happens all the time IRL.

The second is weird ofc, so I suspect what has happened is that he has systematically rejected all the good offers and been left only with the West Ham one. He didn't 'choose' West Ham as such, just that the AI somehow sequences things such that the player can't play clubs off against each other as would happen IRL - instead, each negotiation is treated as a standalone take-it-or-leave-it event.

The problem is, this is just trying to make sense of it and almost making an excuse for the whole situation. If you were the only offer at the time and only offer on the table, it’s the same take it or leave it scenario right?

This situation has been in the game for years, with countless players complaining about it. You would think, maybe at this point, a solution would/could be to allow AI players to accept/stall contract offers to possibly wait for other offers to alleviate this, but no. A player may provisionally accept a low contract, in case no other/better offers come in, but are instead forced to make a decision there and then. 

Edited January 19 by kiingallen

[NineCloudNine]

2 minutes ago, kiingallen said:

The problem is, this is just trying to make sense of it and almost making an excuse for the whole situation. 
 

I agree, it's not good programming. There is a theme here with player interactions, promises, press conferences and contract negotiations where the logic trees simply aren't up to the ambition of including more human interation and personality in the game world. I have a slight dread that SI are hoping some advanced AI will come along to solve this problem for them, rather than the harder, time-intensive but more reliable method of teams of humans painstakingly mapping out, writing and testing better conversational logic.

Or they could just take 90% of it out. I really doubt many players would mind.

[Sunstrikuuu]

Even the way the game has you speaking with coaches is over-aggressive.  If you ask a coach to teach a player a PPM that's critical to your tactic -- let's say a technical DM/CM with high passing, and you want to teach them to come deep to get the ball and to dictate tempo -- and the coach doesn't think it will work, your options are 'don't start the training', 'what do you think we should do?' or 'shut your absolute hole you complete incompetent, just do what i tell you'.  Seriously, imagine being a manager with, like, Daniele de Rossi as your coach and saying "I have much greater experience of what benefits a player's game".  And then imagine that coach saying 'ok but it's going to be a waste of time'.

[Arnar]

So i just played vs Liverpool and lost 2-1. 

These are the ratings of my players. I dont understand why my cbs got so low rating?

Both of them lost 1 aerial duel with 1 key header each. 

My rb apparently lost all his aerial duels... but gets a credit for winning 1 key header? checked the highlight and he did win the header.

 

Do attacking aerial duels have that much influence on player ratings?

Also in player statistics it shows the same amount of headers if you select attacking or defending.

[Sunstrikuuu]

In the screenshot above, my right attacking midfielder is assigned to tightly mark the right of two DMs.  As Atletico play out from the back, you can see that he's there.  Nice.  My CAM, though, is wide right, but is assigned to tightly mark the left of the two DMs, so he's on the wrong side of the pitch.  The LAM is assigned to mark tightly the left of the two centerbacks, and he's way too deep, marking another player entirely.   And then we get that classic passing move where the ball goes tap-tap-tap down the pitch as players 'mark' their assignments by standing behind them.  When the ball gets into the final third, the Atletico attacker turns into an idiot and trips over the ball, letting a defender take it away.

[Iakovenko]

Keeper injuries are still ridiculous. 

Had Raya break a finger saving a pen, it was Haaland so I can kinda forgive that. 

But in the same evening but a different game,  Remiro has just broken his hand 'attempting to catch the ball'

They've all got poppadom hands

Edited January 19 by Iakovenko

[juju56721]

First time on here so please Bear with me. I've noticed that the days until a player is homegrown isn't showing anymore which makes it hard to plan for future registration purposes. Then I noticed the champions league registration has been removed and doesn't show until you have to register which can really ruin a save since you can't open your squad. I normally click on it and see how many spots I have left. I can't do that anymore. Because of that my squad became unbalanced and it's basically ruined my save. Team cohesion is in the mud and I'll have to start a new one now. I was supposed to challenge for the title this year but now I'll have to start over. Is this a glitch or something that was done purposely?

[Dotsworthy]

1 hour ago, juju56721 said:

First time on here so please Bear with me. I've noticed that the days until a player is homegrown isn't showing anymore which makes it hard to plan for future registration purposes. Then I noticed the champions league registration has been removed and doesn't show until you have to register which can really ruin a save since you can't open your squad. I normally click on it and see how many spots I have left. I can't do that anymore. Because of that my squad became unbalanced and it's basically ruined my save. Team cohesion is in the mud and I'll have to start a new one now. I was supposed to challenge for the title this year but now I'll have to start over. Is this a glitch or something that was done purposely?

You seem to be using a custom skin. Have you checked if that is the issue?

[juju56721]

1 minute ago, Dotsworthy said:

You seem to be using a custom skin. Have you checked if that is the issue?

Yeah, I changed back to the original skin and still same thing

[Nick_CB]

8 horas atrás, Arnar disse:

So i just played vs Liverpool and lost 2-1. 

These are the ratings of my players. I dont understand why my cbs got so low rating?

Both of them lost 1 aerial duel with 1 key header each. 

My rb apparently lost all his aerial duels... but gets a credit for winning 1 key header? checked the highlight and he did win the header.

 

Do attacking aerial duels have that much influence on player ratings?

Also in player statistics it shows the same amount of headers if you select attacking or defending.

My friend, aerial duels have been a problem since FM22 and they haven't solved it. In addition to affecting the rating, it affects the way the match progresses with infinite long balls

[Ti Ago]

9 horas atrás, juju56721 disse:

Yeah, I changed back to the original skin and still same thing

Happens to me too

[KingCanary]

16 hours ago, juju56721 said:

First time on here so please Bear with me. I've noticed that the days until a player is homegrown isn't showing anymore which makes it hard to plan for future registration purposes. Then I noticed the champions league registration has been removed and doesn't show until you have to register which can really ruin a save since you can't open your squad. I normally click on it and see how many spots I have left. I can't do that anymore. Because of that my squad became unbalanced and it's basically ruined my save. Team cohesion is in the mud and I'll have to start a new one now. I was supposed to challenge for the title this year but now I'll have to start over. Is this a glitch or something that was done purposely?

Yep I also can't see these. In order to see when players qualify for what though you can go to the squad page and select 'homw grown status' which will show you the date of any changes coming up...

[janrzm]

EDIT: Deleted, resolved issue. 

 

Edited January 20 by janrzm

[bahmet]

What does this column mean?  What does it affect?

Edited January 21 by bahmet

[The About Average Jake]

On 19/01/2024 at 21:41, juju56721 said:

First time on here so please Bear with me. I've noticed that the days until a player is homegrown isn't showing anymore which makes it hard to plan for future registration purposes. Then I noticed the champions league registration has been removed and doesn't show until you have to register which can really ruin a save since you can't open your squad. I normally click on it and see how many spots I have left. I can't do that anymore. Because of that my squad became unbalanced and it's basically ruined my save. Team cohesion is in the mud and I'll have to start a new one now. I was supposed to challenge for the title this year but now I'll have to start over. Is this a glitch or something that was done purposely?

Same for me too.

Once a player is HG it appears but it's completely random. I can sign a 18 year old player and a year later he's HG in nation and club. Massive bug. 

[The About Average Jake]

Massive transfer bug and has killed my 15 season save.

The amount of hours I've put into this game just for this to happen when I'm finally building a good squad. The programming/coding of this game is amateur at times.  

So apparently the A.I can just do whatever they want and activate a release clause even though a pre contract has been agreed.  

On top of that, I've finally upgraded my training and youth facilities to the max they can e, but i'm still yet to have any decent youth players come through.

The videogame sometimes needs to remember its a video game and reward the player when progress has been made .... Just a thought. 

[fc.cadoni]

50 minutes ago, The About Average Jake said:

Massive transfer bug and has killed my 15 season save.

The amount of hours I've put into this game just for this to happen when I'm finally building a good squad. The programming/coding of this game is amateur at times.  

So apparently the A.I can just do whatever they want and activate a release clause even though a pre contract has been agreed.  

On top of that, I've finally upgraded my training and youth facilities to the max they can e, but i'm still yet to have any decent youth players come through.

The videogame sometimes needs to remember its a video game and reward the player when progress has been made .... Just a thought. 

That why is release clause. If they meet the criteria will be accepted. You have agreed this before with the player. 

[NineCloudNine]

1 hour ago, The About Average Jake said:

Massive transfer bug and has killed my 15 season save.

 

No idea what you think the bug is. You agreed to those release clauses when you signed their contracts.

[Hovis Dexter]

2 hours ago, The About Average Jake said:

Massive transfer bug and has killed my 15 season save.

The amount of hours I've put into this game just for this to happen when I'm finally building a good squad. The programming/coding of this game is amateur at times.  

So apparently the A.I can just do whatever they want and activate a release clause even though a pre contract has been agreed.  

On top of that, I've finally upgraded my training and youth facilities to the max they can e, but i'm still yet to have any decent youth players come through.

The videogame sometimes needs to remember its a video game and reward the player when progress has been made .... Just a thought. 

 

Just to add to the previous two comments the signing of a pre contract doesn't prevent the activation of a release clause which is still in effect until the pre contract becomes live.

[The About Average Jake]

3 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

That why is release clause. If they meet the criteria will be accepted. You have agreed this before with the player. 

 

1 hour ago, Hovis Dexter said:

Just to add to the previous two comments the signing of a pre contract doesn't prevent the activation of a release clause which is still in effect until the pre contract becomes live.

 

2 hours ago, NineCloudNine said:

No idea what you think the bug is. You agreed to those release clauses when you signed their contracts.

When a player agrees to a pre contract you can't just decide to then bid for the player. The game won't let you. Look at Endrick for example. Pre arranged to join Madrid but you can't then bid on him at the start of a new save. Likewise a youth player that agrees a pre contract can't then be poached away by another club. By your logic anyone should be allowed to offer a deal until the player turns 17 and the contract comes into play.

Edited January 21 by The About Average Jake

[NineCloudNine]

37 minutes ago, The About Average Jake said:

When a player agrees to a pre contract you can't just decide to then bid for the player. The game won't let you. Look at Endrick for example. Pre arranged to join Madrid but you can't then bid on him at the start of a new save. Likewise a youth player that agrees a pre contract can't then be poached away by another club. By your logic anyone should be allowed to offer a deal until the player turns 17 and the contract comes into play.

This player was already at your club though, right? So he already has a contract with you (the one with the release clause) and you've agreed a new contract to start in a year's time. Meanwhile his current contract remains in force. He's not being 'poached'. Endrick has agreed a future transfer, not a new contract, so it's not the same thing.

[The About Average Jake]

33 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

This player was already at your club though, right? So he already has a contract with you (the one with the release clause) and you've agreed a new contract to start in a year's time. Meanwhile his current contract remains in force. He's not being 'poached'. Endrick has agreed a future transfer, not a new contract, so it's not the same thing.

The contract was signed. The ink still wet.

So if anything, the player should have returned on 25/6 when the contract he already signed with me comes into effect. 

You load up your game and try sign a player, any player that Has signed a pre contract and I'd wager the game won't let you do it. The option to buy won't even be available.

Imagine you approach a player with 6 months left on his deal and he agrees to join your club on a free. It's signed and sealed. Then another club just offer his release clause, don't you think that that is an oversight during development? 

Both players SIGNED new deals. Legally binding. Imagine the frenzy if this happens IRL. 

 

Edited January 21 by The About Average Jake

[The About Average Jake]

49 minutes ago, NineCloudNine said:

This player was already at your club though, right? So he already has a contract with you (the one with the release clause) and you've agreed a new contract to start in a year's time. Meanwhile his current contract remains in force. He's not being 'poached'. Endrick has agreed a future transfer, not a new contract, so it's not the same thing.

Clubs that consider signing a player who has signed a pre-contract with another club should also tread carefully, as the club and the player would be jointly and severally liable for any compensation payable if the player is found to have breached the pre-contract without just cause (Article 17 (2) of FIFA’s Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players 2012).

 

 

The difference between a pre-contract and a contract is that the parties to the pre-contract have not agreed the essential terms and so the pre-contract does not reflect the final agreement. However, if a pre-contract contains all the essential terms that have been agreed, then the pre-contract is effectively a final contract and is likely to be binding.

In the context of football, pre-contracts between clubs and players have become increasingly common. Pre-contracts come in many different forms but generally speaking, it is an agreement providing for the player to join the club on a future date. The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits

 

Edited January 21 by The About Average Jake

[NineCloudNine]

36 minutes ago, The About Average Jake said:

In the context of football, pre-contracts between clubs and players have become increasingly common. Pre-contracts come in many different forms but generally speaking, it is an agreement providing for the player to join the club on a future date. The enforceability of a pre-contract will depend on the specific terms of the agreement. FIFA’s Dispute Resolution Chamber has generally held that a pre-contract is binding if it contains essential terms such as the duration of the contract, remuneration and additional benefits

 

I've bolded the bit that I think you've tripped up on here. What you signed was not a pre-contract for a player you were signing from another club, it was an agreement for revised terms to start in a year for a player who was already at your club. So his existing contract was still in force. I think you'd need a sports lawyer to clarify for sure, whereas you and I are just two people posting on the internet using silly names.

Edited January 21 by NineCloudNine

[makavali]

I feel like there's a lack of interest from bigger teams for your players. For example, I'm managing Cercle Brugge in Belgium and my best player is Alan Minda, who's a 22-year-old Ecuadorian who has produced 20+ G/A in 3 back-to-back seasons in the Jupiler Pro League. He's valued at 18-24mil and I've had interest from a club playing in a better league once in these 3 years. It was from Bochum. 

In real life, if there was a 22-year-old that has a value of less than 30mil with such output in the Belgian league and UCL, he would be picked up immediately. Besides Minda being great, I've also won the league and got out of the league stage in the UCL. 

I get no transfer offers or interest for my players at all. I don't remember noticing such a thing in the previous versions. I wonder if there's an explanation. 

[Iakovenko]

It's been mentioned plenty of times that the game doesn't and cannot distinguish between player and non player managers so why am I not allowed to make a loan bid for a player because it would break the rules but City are?

[XaW]

A quick reminder, please post bugs in the bug tracker, not in here.

https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/

[The About Average Jake]

1 hour ago, NineCloudNine said:

I've bolded the bit that I think you've tripped up on here. What you signed was not a pre-contract for a player you were signing from another club, it was an agreement for revised terms to start in a year for a player who was already at your club. So his existing contract was still in force. I think you'd need a sports lawyer to clarify for sure, whereas you and I are just two people posting on the internet using silly names.

It's also worth mentioning that I couldn't withdraw the contract either or offer better terms that would come into effect immediately.

 

Just imagine if sports lawyers were added to FM25 😂

Edited January 21 by The About Average Jake

[nikkk]

Which release of the game is terrible match simulations. Full match or other modes are completely different simulations. Lots of scripts. No influence of tactics or substitutions. When watching the full match - 5 shots on goal per half. And again scripts scripts scripts. If you score a goal that is unexpected for the AI, the computer will definitely score a return in a minute or two. When will there be an adequate football manager?

[Iakovenko]

On 19/01/2024 at 21:35, Iakovenko said:

Keeper injuries are still ridiculous. 

Had Raya break a finger saving a pen, it was Haaland so I can kinda forgive that. 

But in the same evening but a different game,  Remiro has just broken his hand 'attempting to catch the ball'

They've all got poppadom hands

Onana fractures his upper arm catching the ball

[Bigpapa42]

This is just... confusing. Partway thru the 2nd season with Luton. After a successful first season, the board agreed to upgrade the youth and training facilities. I can't go back and check the email from the board now, but the youth facilities upgrade was supposed to cost a couple of millions. And then the chairman says this...

38m loan. We have 26m in the bank, no debt except transfer debt, a new stadium underway that isn't incurring debt (at least not yet), and somehow, covering a couple of million for the training facilities requires a loan that is ten times the size of the actual cost? A loan which will end up costing the club 50m after interest. The bank balance is still the same. So where did this money go? Does FM24 include financial fraud now? Because I smell some embezzlement going on...

 

Edited January 21 by Bigpapa42

[whatsupdoc]

57 minutes ago, Bigpapa42 said:

This is just... confusing. Partway thru the 2nd season with Luton. After a successful first season, the board agreed to upgrade the youth and training facilities. I can't go back and check the email from the board now, but the youth facilities upgrade was supposed to cost a couple of millions. And then the chairman says this...

38m loan. We have 26m in the bank, no debt except transfer debt, a new stadium underway that isn't incurring debt (at least not yet), and somehow, covering a couple of million for the training facilities requires a loan that is ten times the size of the actual cost? A loan which will end up costing the club 50m after interest. The bank balance is still the same. So where did this money go? Does FM24 include financial fraud now? Because I smell some embezzlement going on...

 

Lol.

[fc.cadoni]

58 minutes ago, Bigpapa42 said:

This is just... confusing. Partway thru the 2nd season with Luton. After a successful first season, the board agreed to upgrade the youth and training facilities. I can't go back and check the email from the board now, but the youth facilities upgrade was supposed to cost a couple of millions. And then the chairman says this...

38m loan. We have 26m in the bank, no debt except transfer debt, a new stadium underway that isn't incurring debt (at least not yet), and somehow, covering a couple of million for the training facilities requires a loan that is ten times the size of the actual cost? A loan which will end up costing the club 50m after interest. The bank balance is still the same. So where did this money go? Does FM24 include financial fraud now? Because I smell some embezzlement going on...

 

That bug carries from FM23.

[Bahoi]

8 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

This is just... confusing. Partway thru the 2nd season with Luton. After a successful first season, the board agreed to upgrade the youth and training facilities. I can't go back and check the email from the board now, but the youth facilities upgrade was supposed to cost a couple of millions. And then the chairman says this...

38m loan. We have 26m in the bank, no debt except transfer debt, a new stadium underway that isn't incurring debt (at least not yet), and somehow, covering a couple of million for the training facilities requires a loan that is ten times the size of the actual cost? A loan which will end up costing the club 50m after interest. The bank balance is still the same. So where did this money go? Does FM24 include financial fraud now? Because I smell some embezzlement going on...

 

 

It's part of the complete overhaul of financial system in fm24, which was announced as a major feature by SI.

 

Oh, wait....

[whatsupdoc]

This is a decent list of formations that currently CAN break the engine. Mostly the double DM on support roles and as usual the triple striker formations. 

[g1nh0]

22 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

This is a decent list of formations that currently CAN break the engine. Mostly the double DM on support roles and as usual the triple striker formations. 

Highlighted this, the double DM-S roles and 3 central strikers needs to be fixed for this last patch as it badly exploits the game at this moment. Hope this gets sorted.

[Cmdr Christoff]

12 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

This is just... confusing. Partway thru the 2nd season with Luton. After a successful first season, the board agreed to upgrade the youth and training facilities. I can't go back and check the email from the board now, but the youth facilities upgrade was supposed to cost a couple of millions. And then the chairman says this...

38m loan. We have 26m in the bank, no debt except transfer debt, a new stadium underway that isn't incurring debt (at least not yet), and somehow, covering a couple of million for the training facilities requires a loan that is ten times the size of the actual cost? A loan which will end up costing the club 50m after interest. The bank balance is still the same. So where did this money go? Does FM24 include financial fraud now? Because I smell some embezzlement going on...

 

Sounds normal to me.  The Builder/Contractor just adding on the usual "extras" that werent in the Contract! 

[Domoboy23]

1 hour ago, g1nh0 said:

Highlighted this, the double DM-S roles and 3 central strikers needs to be fixed for this last patch as it badly exploits the game at this moment. Hope this gets sorted.

Even on seasons when I have used DMs on Support (not trying to exploit or know the above) I've done... welll below average. And everything has seemed as I'd expect on the pitch both from myself and an oppositions point of view.

Pretty sure I've seen the opposition set up with two DM support duties and not noticed anything?

[Rodrigogc]

1 hora atrás, whatsupdoc disse:

This is a decent list of formations that currently CAN break the engine. Mostly the double DM on support roles and as usual the triple striker formations. 

 

So... the mid center is the most important part of the pitch, controlling it is essential. But now, seems that FM places more emphasis on players positioning themselves there coming from their initial positions on the tactic, so if you have a Segundo volante on support duty, he will break forward and position himself on the area of the tactic where there is no players. Positional play at this version, now you can think of your tactic as "where the players will head to" instead of looking at their initial positions on the tactic, bute seems like it has become easy to break the game because all of these tactics rely on placing numerous players off the ball around the opponent's defense line, overloading it which the AI won't be able to deal with. 

 

Actually, FM23 was not different at all, with the AI not being able to deal with overloading, but now with positional play it seems like tactics without CMs will stand out because many players can position themselves in this area of the pitch, including inverted fullbacks.

[stevemc]

Is it better off to to just leave the scouting for the AI/staff to do, as no matter what I create for assignments, my scouts (which are top quality) are either pulling up 0 Reports or dog-muck reports for a couple of C, D rated players. I've watched YouTube videos on it too, and it doesn't seem great.

Is it broken?

[whatsupdoc]

22 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Even on seasons when I have used DMs on Support (not trying to exploit or know the above) I've done... welll below average. And everything has seemed as I'd expect on the pitch both from myself and an oppositions point of view.

Pretty sure I've seen the opposition set up with two DM support duties and not noticed anything?

Didn't say it was guaranteed to win, said it was massively overrepresented in the tactics breaking the ME. 

[g1nh0]

Yeah, you still need to know what you're doing when setting up your tactics for it to be effective - but if everything is right with it, having them two roles makes the system way too overpowered.

This also extends to the point you can use players not that well suited to this generic role but still be extremely effective in it, because the duo DM-S is broken.

[Rodrigogc]

It seems like setting up the right tactic will work with every team, given that some roles seem OP. The whole thing about GKs as AF scoring, DMs-S overachieving, CMs-At scoring many goals... do the level of the players really matter ? Because it seems like getting the right tactic + good morale and players confident = win. Not that IRL football is that different (see Girona), but people could test the same tactics using different teams in different leagues, to measure how the roles are perfoming. 

 

In FM23, managing Sparta Praga, I set up a tactic with a Inverted full back, CM-at, and on the attacking phase, had 4 ou 5 players overloading the opponent's defense, and I won all the games easily, even the derbys were easy, because the AI could not cope.

[g1nh0]

8 minutes ago, Rodrigogc said:

It seems like setting up the right tactic will work with every team, given that some roles seem OP. The whole thing about GKs as AF scoring, DMs-S overachieving, CMs-At scoring many goals... do the level of the players really matter ? Because it seems like getting the right tactic + good morale and players confident = win. Not that IRL football is that different (see Girona), but people could test the same tactics using different teams in different leagues, to measure how the roles are perfoming. 

 

In FM23, managing Sparta Praga, I set up a tactic with a Inverted full back, CM-at, and on the attacking phase, had 4 ou 5 players overloading the opponent's defense, and I won all the games easily, even the derbys were easy, because the AI could not cope.

Very much so, and in part why I've been highly critical of this year's game being a considerable downgrade to the last. The OP roles in tactics are considerably more prominent it seems this year. I mean, there are always going to be OP tactics that can break the engine, but it shouldn't be considerably worse like it has been this year where it can be utilised very easily just by duplicating roles with players that shouldn't be effective in it, but are still being effective.

I'm even seeing the 4231 setup with both DM-s with not even one holding position with x2 attacking wing-backs. That team should be so leaky at the back as there is zero balance to the offense and defense - but on this engine, is a masterful tactic. Plus the creativity going forward should be minimal both with only one prime creator role in the AMC slot and highly predictable in attack. So goals should be a struggle - but not this engine, it's goals galore. The only feasible way it should work well with two DM-S and at least one holder is having a Trequartista  employed in such a system.

Zero progress, but rather a significant regression and a complete lack of realism, which was supposed to be what SI are proud of, creating a "realistic" management sim.

Still FM23 was a shambles prior to the final patch, so can only hope the last patch can be a somewhat significant improvement, both balancing roles and use of tactical approaches, which in turn should hopefully increase the level of difficulty too.