Football Manager 2024 Official Feedback Thread

[Dadecane]

1 hour ago, Muja said:

Yeah, I'm sure that's true for you, because you probably don't like to play on the flanks, and that's cool!
But as I replied earlier to Darj:

 

Actually I play on the flanks. My wing back in attack role is always one of my best players and most creative players. Racking up assists, key passes, chances created, etc but ive just never had them with more assists than my CM, ever. 

[StevehFC]

15 hours ago, Gee_Simpson said:

Even worse when it happens in a Derby! 😭

[Dadecane]

IRL today fullbacks are a key part of attacks, most the time occupying a sole wing by himself and blasting off passes into the area. It is not uncommon for fullbacks on top teams to finish top 5 in assist yr after yr, jordi alba, marcelo, dani alves, alexander arnold, cancelo, many come to mind in recent memory. 
 

that being said in my current save, 20 games into the season there are 3 fullbacks in the top 17 in assist. Thats Loureiro, Olivan and Luis Perez at 8th, 12th and 13th. 
 

the claim that u made that fullbacks rack up assist at will due to some flaw by the ME or whatever u claim is completely false. 
 

almost every player before loreiro is a midfielder or winger. U can see my cm, Toni Moya, who I alternate a lot (only 13 starts of a possible 20) is on the list. 
 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Dadecane

[RealRed]

2 hours ago, Muja said:

Just check the top assist-men of your league right now. 
I have zero doubts most of them will be full-backs and wingers.

Left IF(s) and AMC (AM(a) are top assisters for my league. First fullback is at nr 14 with 7 assists.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by RealRed
more info

[Muja]

19 minuti fa, Dadecane ha scritto:

IRL today fullbacks are a key part of attacks, most the time occupying a sole wing by himself and blasting off passes into the area. It is not uncommon for fullbacks on top teams to finish top 5 in assist yr after yr, jordi alba, marcelo, dani alves, alexander arnold, cancelo, many come to mind in recent memory. 
 

that being said in my current save, 20 games into the season there are 3 fullbacks in the top 17 in assist. Thats Loureiro, Olivan and Luis Perez at 8th, 12th and 13th. 
 

the claim that u made that fullbacks rack up assist at will due to some flaw by the ME or whatever u claim is completely false. 
 

almost every player before loreiro is a midfielder or winger. U can see my cm, Toni Moya, who I alternate a lot (only 13 starts of a possible 20) is on the list. 
 

Paulino De La Fuente: winger;
Djouara: winger;
Braithwate: striker-winger;
Chapela: winger;
Miguel Baeza: AM L/R/C
Romario Ibarra: winger
Tony Moya: CM
Loureiro: wingback
Carlos Lazo: winger
Marco DaGraca: striker
Corpas: right-back, right winger
Olivàn: left-back
Luis Pérez: right-back
Edu Exposito: CM

From that list of players, only two play as CM, and one of them is your player. Only ONE of them can play as ACM (Miguel Baeza) but he can also play as a winger on both flanks, so he's probably playing there, too.
And this is what I told you earlier:

2 ore fa, Muja ha scritto:

Just check the top assist-men of your league right now. 
I have zero doubts most of them will be full-backs and wingers.

And I also wrote:

1 ora fa, Muja ha scritto:

I've done countless tests. It appears evident to me that most assists come from the flanks or from deep, very very rarely from just outside the penalty box.

As you can see, therefore, you haven't disproven what I said earlier. In fact, you've confirmed it.
So, in your league, there are few teams playing with wingbacks, or at least relying more on their wingers. In Serie A, there are many more teams that play with only full-backs on the flanks, so they prevail in the assist rankings.

The point is that in this ME (but for years now, actually), the overwhelming majority of assists come from the flanks, or to a lesser extent, from deep positions (CM - DCM). Occasionally from the strikers, too.
But the AMCs are useless as playmakers. They mostly make assists from corners and free-kicks.

I mean, I've run countless tests; COUNTLESS. I'm not saying this based on perception, but on raw data.

[Muja]

29 minuti fa, RealRed ha scritto:

Left IF(s) and AMC (AM(a) are top assisters for my league. First fullback is at nr 14 with 7 assists.

 

Winger, and Calvin Stengs has 16 in corners.
So, once again:

2 minuti fa, Muja ha scritto:

The point is that in this ME (but for years now, actually), the overwhelming majority of assists come from the flanks, or to a lesser extent, from deep positions (CM - DCM). Occasionally from the strikers, too.
But the AMCs are useless as playmakers. They mostly make assists from corners and free-kicks.

 

[harrycarrie]

Setting your GK to take corners and putting everyone forward works wonders. Here's Bart Verbruggen the corner assist king

 

 

Best thing being I haven't conceded a single goal or chance on an AI counter attack against my GK who is 90 yards away from his net.

Edited December 3, 2023 by harrycarrie

[Muja]

1 minuto fa, harrycarrie ha scritto:

Setting your GK to take corners and putting everyone forward works wonders. Here's Bert Verbruggen the corner assist king

 

 

Best thing being I haven't conceded a single goal or chance on an AI counter attack against my GK who is 90 yards away from his net.

LOL!!
How much does he even have in the corners attribute?
I know it's hidden for GKs, but I doubt it's high.
That's what I meant earlier when I said that corners are OP.

[akkm]

32 minutes ago, Dadecane said:

the claim that u made that fullbacks rack up assist at will due to some flaw by the ME or whatever u claim is completely false. 

where was that claim made re full backs racking up assists at will

Historically the match engine has favoured wing play/assists from wider areas disproportionately...the engine had an over reliance on width and crossing to create and score. In fm21/fm22 that had improved.

Last year creativity outside the wider areas/crosses came a lot through the air so really that gave a faux impression of things were ok there but it wasn't simulated that well or realistically.

This year creativity just isn't up to scratch again from central areas and from players who have requisite skillsets to do better...current engine especially. Decision making and weighting of passes is off.

And yeah before anyone comes back re 'oh well things are hard to create irw' and all that. Of course it is...but when scenarios arise in the FM engine and space is there big and small to thread balls through into and into players the decision making and weighting isn't well simulated. It's stifling certain ways of playing and is imbalanced currently. Overall it's not a tactical issue either as it's a core issue within the match engine itself.

If things improve in that area then we will have a wonderful match engine...if not then we won't in terms of realism. Fingers crossed SI can address it this year and we won't have to wait yet another year where this is off

[southside]

Been enjoying the game since the update, noticed a strange thing and not seen it reported but playing in league 1 ive had a midweek game in november played at 3pm on the official teamsheet and its light. A full card of fixtures

[harrycarrie]

17 minutes ago, Muja said:

LOL!!
How much does he even have in the corners attribute?
I know it's hidden for GKs, but I doubt it's high.
That's what I meant earlier when I said that corners are OP.

I don't think corner attribute matters a jot. I've had guys with like 4 corner taking get tons of assists from them.

 

Verbruggen ended up with 31 assists across the season, and I only added that routine in November.

[Rodrigogc]

Who is saying the game is broken ? It is just a  fact. De Bruyne more than 20 assists in Premier League. I think Ozil did the same with arsenal some years ago. Of course, these players are top players, but that happens IRL more than in the game, that is the point. Meanwhile you have players assisting from set pieces without having the technique to do so. I'm currently playing in Australia, of course a low level league. My corner taker is my central defender, because I forgot to pick the right one. Turned out he gave already 5 assists from corner taking and I'm just letting him do the job now 

[Meraklija Vujevic]

why set pieces are broken only scored 3 in first 16 games  as Luton

I want again to see 40 goals from corners to win instant title much easier

BRING BACK 40 GOALS FROM CORNERS THIS IS POOR TO SEE LUTON ON TOP WITH 3 GOALS FROM CORNERS

Edited December 3, 2023 by Meraklija Vujevic

[Weed07]

Before the patch I felt like I was playing a different game to everyone else. I'm another of those players that started in the 90s and have played every version, the only one I didn't really like was FM23. Since playing FM24 from the early access I have loved it, I've not had any issues, good match engine, realistic scores, no being FM'd, I've not seen the high score lines others were seeing, in fact most of my games were no more than 3 goals with only the occasional one off big wins or defeats but they all felt realistic to the game performances and stats.

Sine the patch however the game feels like its back to FM23 where my strikers could never score, where my players would miss sitters, where opposition teams would have super keepers, where we would outplay teams only to lose or draw as they score with their only shot and we waste chance after chance. I've played 4 seasons where I've enjoyed it, since the patch in my 5th season I'm finding myself frustrated with the game again, just like in FM23.

This is my last game for example, at home to the bottom side thats not won a game this year. Since the patch this is typical of the stats, we usually still win our games but teams will score from their only shots on target that have a low xG while we will have loads of shots, lots of clear cut chances and half chances with a high xG but struggle to score because keepers play world class, even the part time ones in the Gibraltar league and my players miss sitters and hit the woodwork.

Also I know the Gibraltar league isn't the best but I've built a team now that is clearly so much better than the rest of the league and we shouldn't be struggling to score against the bottom side, especially given those stats. If this is how its going to be going forward I'm going to lose my enjoyment playing the game just like I did in FM23.

[Domoboy23]

On previous FM's I was always a bit disappointed by the lack of rotated sides when playing top teams in the cup as a lower team (for e.g 3rd round ties versus Man City etc). Just been drawn against them and about to play and they've rested as you'd expect a lot of key players. Really nice and refreshing, and increases my chances from 0.04% to about 0.12% 

[sanela.hodzic79]

Good evening. I have to share my impressions about the new upgrade and I've been a big fan of the FM series for many years. Specifically, before the 24.2 update I played with Southampton and struggled to survive in the Premier League. After the update, I suddenly achieve 8 wins by the end of the championship with the same tactic swap and my players play that tactic so dominantly that it doesn't matter which team is against me at that moment. That was suspicious to me and I'm starting a new game with Valencia, and in 19 rounds there are 18 wins, 1 defeat I deliberately lost because I test AI intelligence. At that point I am making a new manager and taking over the last Lecce in Serie A which at that moment is last in the table. And look at the miracles with the same tactics the next 5 matches Lecce plays as Man.City. I say this because I have the impression that Ai no longer has aggression in attack and does not change players when they lose, maybe only from 85 minutes onwards. Ai formations no longer change as well as their style of play, and their players look totally uncompact. High praise for SI on the engine of the game. Many things visually look very good, but this now looks more like a children's game in which I will win regardless of whether my first team or substitute players play. I can't send screenshots because I deleted everything and now I'm going to try to take some much weaker team to see what's going on so if it's the same problem then this game isn't what it used to be, which is that you had to think a lot and compete with AI intelligence to beat them. It looks easy and gets boring. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I got lucky, Maybe I chose the right tactics for the listed three teams I played, but this is no longer the level of difficulty it has been so far. Greetings.

[Chris_FM]

Which skin is this please someone? 

[Muja]

1 ora fa, krkyseventwo ha scritto:

 

All this talk of assists is pretty exhausting. The central players In this list (Alvarez, Maddison and JWP) are all set piece-takers for their respective clubs. Watkins is a striker. The rest is dominated by wide players. Just because your AMC isn't an assist machine, doesn't mean the game is broken. One of the most common goals scored in football nowadays is the cutback from either side of the box, more than likely by a wide player. I swear some people on this forum don't actually watch football.

Playmakers don't even necessarily have to assist much, they often start moves with clever touches and movements on the half-turn to create an attack. 

I mean, you're not wrong.
But on the other hand, you're not completely right, either.


Nobody's saying that the game is broken (though corners are OP and I think we've had enough proof of that with the Goalkeeper example a few comments before) but chance creations from the middle of the final third could certainly be improved.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Muja

[RealRed]

2 hours ago, Muja said:

Winger, and Calvin Stengs has 16 in corners.
So, once again:

 

Calvin Stengs is not my main coner taker and neither is Ivanusec.... Sadly it doesn't fit your narrative. 

[Rodrigogc]

 

How often do you see that in FM ? I like to test the game, when I wanna win I simply put on a 433 tactic with an attacking CM and he will score lots of goals. I like to play 4231 because it is a difficult tactic to master, and I've already had my ACM performing like 10 gols, 10 assists in 35 games, that is not a problem at all. (Achieved that with Baumgartner managing Hoffenheim). The problem is how he scores the goals and assists his teammates. It is usually through balls coming from the flanks, not the middle, even though he is a AMC. You don't see your team building up play in the opponent's side without the move ending up in a cross that results in goals. Man city scores a lot this way, that's okay, but you see Arsenal creating lots of chances through the middle, which is hard to do in FM, even though you have the proper players to do so. I mean, I've been playing FM since FM06, I'm an experienced player and I love the game, but sometimes I just feel one has to fight against the ME to achieve an specific type of playing. Not to mention the problem with Full backs being in line with the wingers without doing anything at all, it feels like the ball has to reach a certain space on the pitch so that the Full backs are "activated".

[Muja]

12 minuti fa, RealRed ha scritto:

Calvin Stengs is not my main coner taker and neither is Ivanusec.... Sadly it doesn't fit your narrative. 

If what you're saying it's true, and your AMC(A) really did 16 assist in open play, I'd really, really like to know how you did it since I've been doing lots and lots of experiments to make the AMC perform better, and I've never had that much success!
But it's not enough for me to see your tactic, I want to watch your games, too. Could you please share your save with me?

[steve.bs69]

Did 12 matches after the patch with Brescia, My hometown, in Italian Serie B

I must say that imho main problem are cross, i explain. Before the patch many Times players were unable to cross because they were strictly marked or opponent was in front of them, so they were obliged to give the Ball back and restart attack patiently

Now every time they are in position, crosses arrive into the area, nobody can Mark wingers or fullback or even deflect cross, so there are so many and consequently many balls in area from the flanks and then many assist and goals from the flanks

Consider that i play with 3421 and My attacking leftback Fares already did 6 assist in 11 matches, My right one Dickmann did 5 in 11 matches, so i already had 11 assist in 11 matches from My Two attacking fullbacks

First of the League with 7/11 assist is Sudtirol left back Davi then with 5 we have Bari right back Pucino, so 4 fullbacks in first 4 positions, that's honestly absurd, moreover they are Serie B players with 12/20 in crossing but they even always cross well.......and that is another problem........

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by steve.bs69

[Freakiie]

God players can be petty.

"Yeah I know I earn €12.8m a year, but I still want €575k compensation for making this transfer!"

[akkm]

8 minutes ago, krkyseventwo said:

ll this talk of assists is pretty exhausting. The central players In this list (Alvarez, Maddison and JWP) are all set piece-takers for their respective clubs. Watkins is a striker. The rest is dominated by wide players. Just because your AMC isn't an assist machine, doesn't mean the game is broken. One of the most common goals scored in football nowadays is the cutback from either side of the box, more than likely by a wide player. I swear some people on this forum don't actually watch football.

Playmakers don't even necessarily have to assist much, they often start moves with clever touches and movements on the half-turn to create an attack. 

Absolutely there’s nuance to this whole thing. Creativity manifests itself in many ways besides the final pass/assist for goal. And it's this that's missing in FM and hence why they've needed that width/crossing for many years to provide that creativity. This has manifested itself in FM in other forms besides excessive crossing…with long shots/balls over the top and through the air being overpowered at times. Bar FM21 & FM22 that over reliance on these has been far too pronounced.

As you allude to...anyone who watches football should have noticed this.

One of the main differences between real world football and FM is how the middle of the pitch gets attacked.

In real world football the middle of the pitch is the most valuable real estate. This is how teams want to attack by default. There's a reason you see defensive teams stack the central areas and try to force opposition teams out wider. You don't see too many (if any) teams stack the wide areas by default and leave glaring holes down the middle of the pitch...for obvious reasons. 

So as said...by default a team should want to attack and create through the central areas. When that space is closed off and severely closed off then of course teams will move the ball wider. Of course though in the real world teams often move it wide to stretch teams whilst continuously recycling the ball to move opposition player/players out of position to slot one of their own players in on goal. Really that is to move it wide to move it back inside to thread a player in on goal...but that won’t always be doable. That of course then means play can be circulated for cut backs but the way the ball gets worked by a Man City, for example, is to get the ball into inside channels between full back and central defenders…so it’s as near to the goal as they can as it increases the quality of the chance they can create with these cut backs.

One thing to note is how the ball gets worked into that inside channel for the cut back. It’s often coming from moving the ball back inside and threading the ball into there for a cutback. It’s not really that the ball goes wide and stays there and gets worked down the line for a cross out wide. Obviously distance from the goal and requirement for a more accurate cross means this won’t consistently create high quality chances so this isn’t an optimal way of playing.

This is one of the main differences between real world football and FM.

FM doesn’t value the central areas as highly as it should and tends to move the ball too quickly out wide and it stays there before coming back in from wider areas to create that way either via a cross or inside for a long shot just too much at times. FM doesn’t work the ball into inside channels as well as it should either.

In FM the play in central areas, especially in the top third really, isn’t simulated at all well as to how the ball gets moved and should get moved through there to create openings and even link up play well. It’s like a repellent at times and players view it as a forbidden zone. It’s almost like the evaluation of space in there in 3 dimensions isn’t capturing real world human players ability to identify space, move into space and move the ball through space…ie that said space in FM is viewed as way tighter than human players in the real world view it. In the real world players will attempt to move the ball inside and up the middle more where in FM it’s more like “nope…middle isn’t on lets go wide” and view that space as being too tight to move themselves or the ball through/in…where the space isn’t as tight as they view it comparably to the real world. It seems to value passes to wide areas too highly in the hierarchy meaning the default attack can be out wide which is at odds/the opposite of real world fundamentals. This means the engine has great difficulty in producing creative passes in the form of threaded passes/through balls/progressive passes/'guiled' passes and all that good stuff.

That impacts how players in FM are then able to operate in central areas and tighter areas in general…they don't/can’t dribble, receive the ball or retain possession as well as they do in real world football. This has knock ons in the engine in terms of creativity and quality play overall..essentially in FM it’s too limited…and thus means the engine has to create goals/chances in less realistic ways. Last year, for example this caused central areas top third to be bypassed at times and a necessity to loft the ball to create chances and goals from too deep on the pitch or too many diagonals out wide…rather than work the ball better up top along the ground and into the box with the threaded passes in tighter spaces you see in the real world.

This ability to operate in tighter areas and the pass decision making hierarchy to value passes into central areas higher is required to bring the engine more in line with real world fundamentals of how players and teams operate. Even then within FM when the correct pass choice is made the weighting of the creative pass can be off all adding to the frustration (I mean disproportionately so…as obviously that can be off in the real world at times…this is the case currently in FM…it happens too much as sort of a protective mechanism).

For too many years in FM all this has been off. This of course always keeps the requirements for whackamole balancing year in year out where changes to one thing causes too disproportionate a knock on to something else and overall then. Things just keep moving from one thing to another too easily and too often.

This is reflective of core decision making being not simulated as well as it should be. The other thing is if attacking play is simulated to a high level then defending/pressing can be simulated to a higher standard to attempt to stop that and it will be much more accurate simulation requiring less effort to balance it. Currently as attacking creative play isn’t good enough…then improvements to defending/pressing impacts attacking too detrimentally meaning that gets too stifled meaning defensive/pressing changes have to be tempered meaning attacking can’t be enhanced too much and so on and on and on. One thing 'breaks' the other a little and vice versa. The consequence of this is the match engine gets developed in small incremental steps far far too slowly which is frustrating.

This hierarchy of passing to value central areas more (with more astute weighting of passes) and the ability of players to evaluate space and move themselves and the ball into and through said space is the crux of how to develop and enhance the engine to make it more realistic, easier to balance and to a higher level than we currently have.

Until that we really just see pieces getting moved around the board…only to be moved back again when something else gets moved then

[Sunstrikuuu]

11 minutes ago, akkm said:

It’s almost like the evaluation of space in there in 3 dimensions isn’t capturing real world human players ability to identify space, move into space and move the ball through space…ie that said space in FM is viewed as way tighter than human players in the real world view it. In the real world players will attempt to move the ball inside and up the middle more where in FM it’s more like “nope…middle isn’t on lets go wide” and view that space as being too tight to move themselves or the ball through/in…where the space isn’t as tight as they view it comparably to the real world. It seems to value passes to wide areas too highly in the hierarchy meaning the default attack can be out wide which is at odds/the opposite of real world fundamentals. This means the engine has great difficulty in producing creative passes in the form of threaded passes/through balls/progressive passes/'guiled' passes and all that good stuff.

I completely agree with this.  Defenders cast bigger shadows than they should and deny larger spaces than they ought to because creative players are unwilling to play chipped passes over the top. 

[Muja]

24 minuti fa, akkm ha scritto:

Absolutely there’s nuance to this whole thing. Creativity manifests itself in many ways besides the final pass/assist for goal. And it's this that's missing in FM and hence why they've needed that width/crossing for many years to provide that creativity. This has manifested itself in FM in other forms besides excessive crossing…with long shots/balls over the top and through the air being overpowered at times. Bar FM21 & FM22 that over reliance on these has been far too pronounced.

As you allude to...anyone who watches football should have noticed this.

One of the main differences between real world football and FM is how the middle of the pitch gets attacked.

In real world football the middle of the pitch is the most valuable real estate. This is how teams want to attack by default. There's a reason you see defensive teams stack the central areas and try to force opposition teams out wider. You don't see too many (if any) teams stack the wide areas by default and leave glaring holes down the middle of the pitch...for obvious reasons. 

So as said...by default a team should want to attack and create through the central areas. When that space is closed off and severely closed off then of course teams will move the ball wider. Of course though in the real world teams often move it wide to stretch teams whilst continuously recycling the ball to move opposition player/players out of position to slot one of their own players in on goal. Really that is to move it wide to move it back inside to thread a player in on goal...but that won’t always be doable. That of course then means play can be circulated for cut backs but the way the ball gets worked by a Man City, for example, is to get the ball into inside channels between full back and central defenders…so it’s as near to the goal as they can as it increases the quality of the chance they can create with these cut backs.

One thing to note is how the ball gets worked into that inside channel for the cut back. It’s often coming from moving the ball back inside and threading the ball into there for a cutback. It’s not really that the ball goes wide and stays there and gets worked down the line for a cross out wide. Obviously distance from the goal and requirement for a more accurate cross means this won’t consistently create high quality chances so this isn’t an optimal way of playing.

This is one of the main differences between real world football and FM.

FM doesn’t value the central areas as highly as it should and tends to move the ball too quickly out wide and it stays there before coming back in from wider areas to create that way either via a cross or inside for a long shot just too much at times. FM doesn’t work the ball into inside channels as well as it should either.

In FM the play in central areas, especially in the top third really, isn’t simulated at all well as to how the ball gets moved and should get moved through there to create openings and even link up play well. It’s like a repellent at times and players view it as a forbidden zone. It’s almost like the evaluation of space in there in 3 dimensions isn’t capturing real world human players ability to identify space, move into space and move the ball through space…ie that said space in FM is viewed as way tighter than human players in the real world view it. In the real world players will attempt to move the ball inside and up the middle more where in FM it’s more like “nope…middle isn’t on lets go wide” and view that space as being too tight to move themselves or the ball through/in…where the space isn’t as tight as they view it comparably to the real world. It seems to value passes to wide areas too highly in the hierarchy meaning the default attack can be out wide which is at odds/the opposite of real world fundamentals. This means the engine has great difficulty in producing creative passes in the form of threaded passes/through balls/progressive passes/'guiled' passes and all that good stuff.

That impacts how players in FM are then able to operate in central areas and tighter areas in general…they don't/can’t dribble, receive the ball or retain possession as well as they do in real world football. This has knock ons in the engine in terms of creativity and quality play overall..essentially in FM it’s too limited…and thus means the engine has to create goals/chances in less realistic ways. Last year, for example this caused central areas top third to be bypassed at times and a necessity to loft the ball to create chances and goals from too deep on the pitch or too many diagonals out wide…rather than work the ball better up top along the ground and into the box with the threaded passes in tighter spaces you see in the real world.

This ability to operate in tighter areas and the pass decision making hierarchy to value passes into central areas higher is required to bring the engine more in line with real world fundamentals of how players and teams operate. Even then within FM when the correct pass choice is made the weighting of the creative pass can be off all adding to the frustration (I mean disproportionately so…as obviously that can be off in the real world at times…this is the case currently in FM…it happens too much as sort of a protective mechanism).

For too many years in FM all this has been off. This of course always keeps the requirements for whackamole balancing year in year out where changes to one thing causes too disproportionate a knock on to something else and overall then. Things just keep moving from one thing to another too easily and too often.

This is reflective of core decision making being not simulated as well as it should be. The other thing is if attacking play is simulated to a high level then defending/pressing can be simulated to a higher standard to attempt to stop that and it will be much more accurate simulation requiring less effort to balance it. Currently as attacking creative play isn’t good enough…then improvements to defending/pressing impacts attacking too detrimentally meaning that gets too stifled meaning defensive/pressing changes have to be tempered meaning attacking can’t be enhanced too much and so on and on and on. One thing 'breaks' the other a little and vice versa. The consequence of this is the match engine gets developed in small incremental steps far far too slowly which is frustrating.

This hierarchy of passing to value central areas more (with more astute weighting of passes) and the ability of players to evaluate space and move themselves and the ball into and through said space is the crux of how to develop and enhance the engine to make it more realistic, easier to balance and to a higher level than we currently have.

Until that we really just see pieces getting moved around the board…only to be moved back again when something else gets moved then

I would go as far as to say that I skipped FM22 and FM23 and played FM mobile instead… because the match engine felt more realistic!

I’m not kidding. 

Sure, you can only see 2D dots, but that’s never bothered me. And I actually enjoyed watching a game on FMM more than on the “true” version. 

Maybe at times, simple is better.

[Rodrigogc]

One of the evidences that prove what akkm said, is how difficult (if not impossible) it is to simulate what Thomas muller has done so much in professional football. He is not a technically gifted player, but he's got numbers that exceed what you expect from a player that "only" knows how to interpret space. He is the true definition of a professional footballler, because I think he would have a hard time playing street football or something, but he does supremely well in professional football because he is very smart in his decision-making and off-ball movements. You can't simulate in FM what he does in real world football, simply because the ME does not understand how he moves into spaces to create chances for himself and his teammates. FM tried to create the role "raumdeutter" to simulate what he does, but it doesn't come near the complexity of his way of playing football. I mean, he's not a creative player like Ozil, De Bruyne, but you could see how many assists he gave to Lewandowski and how it rarely happens in FM the way he does in real life. This is just an example, but there are countless worth mentioning, like the way Riquelme played, retaining the ball, using his body to protect the ball and attract the opposition, this is something you don't see in FM. 

 

I don't expect the game to be perfect, I keep playing it gladly, but I think this game would jump to a whole new level if the ME could simulate how football works in the middle of the pitch and how specific players behave differently. 

[kazik]

My staff after two weeks in charge... Yeah, the game is broken.

 

 

[kiwityke1983]

9 hours ago, Muja said:

AMCs have no problem scoring - heck, a Shadow Striker might even score more than your forwards.
My concerns are mainly about assists. If I had to guess, I'd say your AMC is also taking corners and free kicks - or you're already using one of the "tricks" I've discovered.
But for the sake of my "study", would you mind sharing your tactics? (Also mentioning the AMC's role, duty and PIs).
It would be a great help!

EDIT: maybe privately, since we don't want to clog up this thread, which is for general game feedback.

In my league the top 8 assisters is made up of:

3 wingers (19 assists)

2 strikers (15 assists)

2 central mids (11 assists)

1 full-back (5 assists)

Looks like a nice spread at the level I'm playing.

I have noticed in my team my Amc makes the pass directly before the pass that is an assist a lot.

[j_t_87]

Can someone tell me the new release clause for Endrick and Victor Roque pst new patch? not sure if i miss anyone else that was affected by the low release clause before the patch

[whatsupdoc]

 

 

 

Playing a 4-3-3

Edited December 4, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[rjferguson90]

Scorelines like this are still a bit too common imo. Only a few months into the season and have had a few of these.

[Muja]

15 minuti fa, whatsupdoc ha scritto:

 

 

 

Playing a 4-3-3

The problem is this area of the field. 

I know you don’t use an AMC, so that’s why it’s zero… well, try using one and you’ll see. Barely nothing happens there. 
(By the way, how’s the second map called in-game?)

[whatsupdoc]

2 minutes ago, Muja said:

The problem is this area of the field. 

I know you don’t use an AMC, so that’s why it’s zero… well, try using one and you’ll see. Barely nothing happens there. 
(By the way, how’s the second map called in-game?)

it's in the data analysis section under "scoring".

 

It would be nice to be able to get an assist map. There are some highly detailed data things but simple stuff is missing.

Edited December 4, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[Muja]

47 minuti fa, whatsupdoc ha scritto:

it's in the data analysis section under "scoring".

I can't find it!  

[bigmattb28]

10 hours ago, Chris_FM said:

Which skin is this please someone? 

Unofficial dark skin elite_df11 faces version 9

[whatsupdoc]

25 minutes ago, Muja said:

I can't find it!  

Go to analysis, click on the second big bar titled scoring (from memory).

Then click on the assists tab near the smaller graphics. 

 

I think with the AMCs a lot of the roles make forward runs from an already high line so they won't be in position to receive in zone 14 as much as you'd like.

 

With the 4-3-3 they move into that space and mine do ok with "more direct passing" and "try killer balls" PPM on. 

But getting creativity from that area has been tricky in the last few FMs for me. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[Johnny Ace]

Very well put @akkm, you've hit the nail on the head there, I've been saying the same (just less well put) for years 

Like you said, last year the goal creativity came from balls over the top, this year it's back to balls down the flanks, FM19 had a major issue with this too. It leads to one dimensional football once you've seen a few matches, you'll know what the players will and won't do   

[Muja]

23 minuti fa, whatsupdoc ha scritto:

Go to analysis, click on the second big bar titled scoring (from memory).

Then click on the assists tab near the smaller graphics. 

 

I think with the AMCs a lot of the roles make forward runs from an already high line so they won't be in position to receive in zone 14 as much as you'd like.

 

With the 4-3-3 they move into that space and mine do ok with "more direct passing" and "try killer balls" PPM on. 

But getting creativity from that area has been tricky in the last few FMs for me. 

Ok, found it! Thank you very much!
Unfortunately, the second map is not showing who made the assists, but who's scoring goals. It'd have been more useful for my experiments if it did, but oh well.

 

[whatsupdoc]

27 minutes ago, Muja said:

Ok, found it! Thank you very much!
Unfortunately, the second map is not showing who made the assists, but who's scoring goals. It'd have been more useful for my experiments if it did, but oh well.

 

Click one tab over to the right and you'll see assists. 

Data hub - Analysis Report - then the picture on the right side, click ASSISTS.

Then one tab over again to see the assists by position.

Edited December 4, 2023 by whatsupdoc

[steve.bs69]

10 ore fa, steve.bs69 ha scritto:

Did 12 matches after the patch with Brescia, My hometown, in Italian Serie B

I must say that imho main problem are cross, i explain. Before the patch many Times players were unable to cross because they were strictly marked or opponent was in front of them, so they were obliged to give the Ball back and restart attack patiently

Now every time they are in position, crosses arrive into the area, nobody can Mark wingers or fullback or even deflect cross, so there are so many and consequently many balls in area from the flanks and then many assist and goals from the flanks

Consider that i play with 3421 and My attacking leftback Fares already did 6 assist in 11 matches, My right one Dickmann did 5 in 11 matches, so i already had 11 assist in 11 matches from My Two attacking fullbacks

First of the League with 7/11 assist is Sudtirol left back Davi then with 5 we have Bari right back Pucino, so 4 fullbacks in first 4 positions, that's honestly absurd, moreover they are Serie B players with 12/20 in crossing but they even always cross well.......and that is another problem........

 

The other problem after the patch is always related to cross but those from the baseline going behind towards the area limit. Opponents defensive line is too low and usually My midfielder coming from behind is left free to shot on target and usually scores.

Please developers fix those problems because Now i'm tired to see My goals always coming in these same Two ways and i'm 1st in the League with 11 wins and 2 draws on 13 matches While before the patch i was able to arrive at best 6th or 7th in the table.

Regards

 

[Rodrigogc]

Well, I play 4-2-3-1, this is what I found:

My AMC does score but like whatsupdoc said, it would be grea to be able to get an assist map. 

[Dadecane]

Top 10 in assists in La Liga TODAY irl

acm = 1 player

cm = 2 players

wingers = 5 players

fullbacks = 1 player

Center fwds = 1 player

Top 10 in assists in EPL today irl

acm = 1 player

cm = 1 player

wingers = 4 players 

fullbacks = 2 players

center fwds = 2 players

must I continue with every league?

fullbacks and wingers make up MORE THAN 50% of the top 10 assiStmen in football irl EVERY YEAR yet the game is broken?

Just cuz u cant get your ACM to get assists doesnt mean the game is broken

newsflash: FULLBACKS AND WINGERS MAKE THE MOST ASSISTS IRL TOO!!

 

[rp1966]

13 hours ago, Chris_FM said:

Which skin is this please someone? 

The skin is SAS24 - really nicely put together skin.  

(That screenshot is from my save)

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by rp1966

[Robioto]

Any chance the role requirement for loan players could be completely scrapped? Managers demanding a position I get, but this is too far and makes loaning players needlessly restrictive. I have two examples on my current save with Yeovil Town (I'm in the National League).

1. Striker on loan from Aston Villa - Is the best player in the league, has over 25 league goals by January playing as a Pressing Forward, I get barraged by the Aston Vila manager saying I agreed to play him as a Poacher. Wants to recall the loan in January... Completely ignoring the success of the loan and the player's huge attribute development over the first half of the season

2. Defensive Midfielder on loan from Norwich - Playing every match, is the engine room of my midfield often scoring goals desspite his deep role. Hugely successful loan spell. Norwich manager losing the plot becuase I'm playing him as an Anchor and not a Ball Winning Midfielder. Development has been huge too.

Now, I know I will be told "you agreed to this" and I accept that, what I don't accept is the terrible logic behind Emery and Farke constantly perstering me about the role the the players are being used in, it just doesn't work properly and kind of epitomises the logic in FM these days. In the meantime I'm deciding whether to buy the editor and change the loans to not being non-recallable or whether I press on with the save frustrated with the game, or of course, just give up altogether. Crap like this ruins saves every single year and it always hinges on player and manager interaction and the game having, or at least feel like having, one layer of logic in place when it comes to instances like this. The game logic or AI never see the bigger picture, whether that is loans, player interactions, manager interactions, media interactions... it's just terrible as it always has been since it was introduced.

What's frustrating, is the player interactions was a big part of the marketing push, yet the AI behind it is just as terrible as ever. I hate hitting continue and seeing "Player A has a problem", it's lottery time, who knows how the player will react as there is no sensible logic behind it. So I save scum these interactions. The fact that improving player interactions was touted as a big marketing point of the game is wholey dishonest and this seems to be a recurrring trend with each FM release...

Edited December 6, 2023 by Robioto

[rp1966]

2 hours ago, bigmattb28 said:

Unofficial dark skin elite_df11 faces version 9

Nope.  Maybe has the same tactic screen layout (I don't know the skin you're referring to), but I'm using SAS24.

 

[RDF Tactics]

On 03/12/2023 at 06:09, dzek said:

This is the official answer about woodworks..

but does that not still count as woodwork hit, no?

And still, when someone hits the woodwork but is offside. FM still counts as a shot and woodwork hit - similar with offside goals. Sometimes you score an offside goal, but shot still is recorded

Edited December 4, 2023 by RDF Tactics

[Elder]

5 hours ago, j_t_87 said:

Can someone tell me the new release clause for Endrick and Victor Roque pst new patch? not sure if i miss anyone else that was affected by the low release clause before the patch

Vitor Roque has a  release clause between €100 and €200 mil, irl he'll have € 500 mil so it's kinda fixed

Endrick has... €30 mil, so he hasn't been touched

[dzek]

1 hour ago, RDF Tactics said:

but does that not still count as woodwork hit, no?

Look, it was something I didn't know to be honest and I did some searching on the internet and it seems that this "regulation" is valid. But now if someone has video of a match where the ball hit the woodwork without hitting a player then that is surely a bug and should be reported.

It is also good to mention that if a shot hits another player and then the woodwork it should be recorded as a "shot blocked". If it’s not please report it inside Bug Tracker!

Edited December 4, 2023 by dzek

[herne79]

3 hours ago, Muja said:

I know you don’t use an AMC, so that’s why it’s zero… well, try using one and you’ll see. Barely nothing happens there.

That's not my experience.

For context I use an AMC in a 4411 2DM formation.  The Board (and the Media) think I use a Wingplay style.  My assists table (last 45 league matches) below says otherwise.  I play in English League 1 (Championship next season).

The main player I use in the AMC position has 13 goals and 7 assists in 28 league appearances (and no, he doesn't take corners or freekicks).

Things can be improved for sure, but saying "barely nothing happens there" may be the case for you but not for others, myself included.  I see similar results using the same tactic in my Premier League save.

As an aside there seems to be something wrong with the data - according to the data below I've scored 67 goals along with 57 assists (positional map) or 61 assists (assist types).  The funny thing is I actually scored 98 league goals in the last 45 matches, so something's not adding up.

I've included my tactic for reference but note that I will tweak it during some matches if I see issues which need addressing, so it's probably not something to copy.