[FM24] The Norsemen

_Ben_ · January 29

Ten more games down and we've made strides towards retaining our league title, despite losing the first league game of my tenure: a home tie to Malmo. Whilst not scoring freely as my youth side, we've been pretty sharp in front of goal, moving to nearly three per game across the entire season. It does, somewhat, feel a bit processional and, as such, I've lost a little interest in the tactical nuances that make this squad and this style so engaging for me, relying on - essentially - just being the better team.

The bulk of the above goals have come from the emergence of Junior Boukama-Kaya, the returning academy graduate, who had spent time on loan in Germany. His pace and finishing ability, as seen from both the metrics and game-by-game breakdown have been immense, scoring in eight successive games, including two back-to-back hattricks. When playing a more traditional striker in a Trequartista role, I've ended up with a very free player; he's certainly not a creative hub - averaging just over twenty-two passes and just under three dribbles but is given license to get himself into dangerous areas, as seen by his average shot xG of 0.35 and his outputs of nearly two and a half goal contributions a game over this period. It's a role and, arguably, a player type, that I've not always been convinced by but JBK is really strutting his stuff, continuing from Brusberg before him and, remarkably, keeping Pontus Dahbo out of the starting eleven.

---

I think this is the right thing to do but, if not, it's certainly the in thing at the moment as I follow in the footsteps of Jurgen Klopp and Xavi in announcing that I'll be leaving my post at the end of the season. Despite not being here for that long - just under two years - I've achieved what I set out to do: dominate the league and push on in Europe. a 3-0 romp over Anderlecht shows that we're not messing around in the Champions League and two league titles in a row will cement myself as a club icon. I have, however, pondered. Five years in Sweden, building GIF Sundsvall up to maintain as a strong team at this level prior to this appointment - is it enough? Do top class managers, striving to be the best, spend longer in their homeland? Jose didn't - four years from Leiria to Chelsea. Roberto De Zerbi took eight years to get out of Italy but Xabi Alonso only took four to leave Spain.

I don't think you can put a timeframe on it, personally. Have I done enough to secure a job in the Bundesliga? Probably not. Is the 3.Liga too much of a drop? Probably, yes. I'm doing my research into the 2.Liga sides, looking to find myself either a rebuild job or a nice stepping stone.

Of course, I won't allow myself to leave here on a whimper. Elfsborg have been a wonderful team and I have learnt and achieved so much in such a short time and will have, importantly, set the team up financially and in terms of it's playing squad, to dominate this level for years to come. It'll be sad to move on but, harking back to the Viking within, it's part of the quest. Sweden is nearly conquered.

danielgear · January 29

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Probably, yes. I'm doing my research into the 2.Liga sides, looking to find myself either a rebuild job or a nice stepping stone.

Do you think Germany is where you’re heading in your head or is there anywhere else you have in mind?

Shrewnaldo · January 29

Looking at that table, it's not hard to see why you're leaving and I think 'processional' sounds like the perfect word. In FM terms, it's just mashing the space bar and knowing that you'll win regardless because your players are so much better.

Mad 43 minute hat-trick there against GAIS.

Will be really interested to see where you end up. Realistically, I'd be thinking a lower Bundesliga side is entirely realistic. Like maybe a Mainz who have a track record of giving up-and-coming managers a shot.

SixPointer · January 30

Sounds like your ready for a change of pace, as shrew says it sounds like space bar smashing.

Anything out there that has caught the eye?

Slipky · January 30

I understand the logic behind leaving Sweden at the end of the season. Looks like you achieved all you can without sticking around for 5-6 more years and building a late-UCL worthy squad.
Looking forward to see where you'll end up.

john1 · January 30

Will be interesting to see where you head next :thup:

_Ben_ · January 30

21 hours ago, danielgear said:

Do you think Germany is where you’re heading in your head or is there anywhere else you have in mind?

Yes, probably.With the difference in calendars, there isn't a lot going on at the moment.

21 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Like maybe a Mainz who have a track record of giving up-and-coming managers a shot.

They're currently at risk of falling out of the second tier!

6 hours ago, Slipky said:

I understand the logic behind leaving Sweden at the end of the season. Looks like you achieved all you can without sticking around for 5-6 more years and building a late-UCL worthy squad.

21 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

In FM terms, it's just mashing the space bar and knowing that you'll win regardless because your players are so much better.

I think that this is absolutely correct. It's early enough that I can dominate the league but still a long way from being able to really challenge in Europe!

_Ben_ · February 4

Annnnddd...job done!

Whilst I have taken a short hiatus to complete some more skinning jobs, I played through the remainder of the season and, sadly, feel a little less well-connected to Elfsborg as I once did. In 'real life' terms, I've been managing them for a little over a month - a not too short time frame in the scheme of the game - and, in that time, have led them to two Allsvenskan titles, losing just once in sixty league games. However, two flops in Svenska Cup finals, once recently, and a tough start to life in the Champions League tells me that this project either needs to end now or continue for another five to six years. Yet my short stint here and, to be fair, the completion of my time in Sweden following the spell at GIF Sundsvall has been nothing short of incredible. Here, I have garnered a thorough understanding of the game: moving tactically over the past year into a really fluid shape and style that gives me both pleasure to watch and a great amount of attacking potency carefully balanced with a strong defence.

But now, it is time to move on. Resignation tendered. The sacking of Stefan Leitl, Bochum manager, is of interest to me. An ex Bundesliga club now sat precariously near the bottom of the 2.Liga with significant financial constraints, yet a culture of youth development:

This could be that long, long term project that I now crave. It's not even quite a sideways step as they are rated as a more reputable club than our own and, wages alone, have plays who earn 900% of our top earners. My eggs aren't quite in one basket but, as a soon-to-be free agent, I don't feel that I'm particularly a hard get if they want me!

Edited February 4 by _Ben_

danielgear · February 4

I had a great time at Bochum on FM23, a great stepping stone club for you before a top club.

rich ruzzian · February 4

Would be a nice move to Germany, if they give you the job.

Shrewnaldo · February 4

Given the timing of the respective seasons, I'm assuming it's something like December or January? Any likely candidates other than Bochum?

Cracking shirts at Bochum too.

_Ben_ · February 4

Despite keeping my cards close to my chest, potentially waiting for the Hamburg (16th in Bundesliga) or even the Eintracht Frankfurt (6th in 2.Bundesliga), I felt that the project here at Bochum was the right one for me. My appointment was swift, with just one further Champions League game played at Elfsborg, a 0-0 draw at Young Boys. I know that the idea of the Champions League to where I am, right now, feels a million miles away but I feel that the board are ambitious and that this is a five year project for us - here to the Champions League. I've done quite a lot of reading into VFL Bochum and, aside from their lovely kits - as @Shrewnaldo demonstrated - they appear to be one of the oldest clubs in the world. The general information states the date that they reformed but the clue from the 1848 in their name, tells me that a gymnastics and sports club was set up, some 180 years prior to the game date of my arrival. A current Bundesliga team, this side stayed for two years before relegation and have been on a bit of a decline ever since, unable to return to the top flight. I was drawn to their affiliates, particularly Brommapojkarna, allowing me to keep a foothold in Swedish football and benefit from their young academy players. Remarkably, the team is listed as more reputable than current Swedish champions and Champions League side Elfsborg but I really do think the skeleton is there, at least in terms of the 26,000 seater stadium, superb youth facilities and excellent training facilities.

The problem, though, lies in the day to day running:

We look to incur around €8m in losses per season with a projection of more than €15m of debt and, despite the hefty 2.Liga prize money, look like we will have to sell in order to stay afloat, certainly in the short term. My aim for a club - particularly one that fits in with the straight through process (no B team at all), means that I intend to create a playing time pathway as well as a conveyor belt of talent leaving the north east of Germany, taking through the Bochum-way and, in the much longer term, performing with it on the big stage. In the short term though, there will have to be considerable discussion around recruitment and retention of staff and players as I need to balance the books and balance them, fast. A quick scan through the books tells me that the board invested over €900k this month but that has never happened before - maybe this was to do with my appointment. Sponsorships and combined gate receipts bring in just shy of €10m a year but last season's €26m wage bill is a huge problem (and, looking at the salary commitments right now, doesn't seem to be going away) that needs to be rectified and brought under control, fast. Add €4m in loyalty bonuses, €5m in contract bonuses and €11m in transfer spend and you can see why we're in this hole but, amazingly, we are debt free and have no outgoing monthly payments. On the other hand, though, the youth setup, at a mere €1m a year, is here to stay!

In real life, Schalke may struggle for a 3.Liga license and, in game, the now-3.Liga outfit have been restricted to just youngsters and now languish near the bottom of that league, potentially looking at two possible relegations. Our league position would suggest that relegation is a real concern for us, too, but, given our recent form and the xG table, I think it's safe to say that the squad is stronger than it appears and there is potential to turn this around, make some money and then look to grow organically in the future. Having left a club with over €60m in the coffers and a pretty much unlimited financial handle over the entirety of their domestic scene, I'm excited to make the move here and have to do things slightly differently!

----

The staffing situation is pretty threadbare, in all honesty. I was able to bring over a couple of members of staff, and, particularly pleasingly, Michael Jorgenson was willing to head to Germany with me to continue as my Head of Youth Development, a role he performed well. In my interview, I promised to work with current DoF Marc Lettau but, with our financial situation looking so tight, I do not necessarily feel it appropriate to delegate everything to him, yet, despite the realism within that option. I was also able to bring in a few youth staff with me as I continue to make a concerted effort to develop the best players and, ultimately, the most profitable assets.

---

I must admit to not deeply looking at the team before the takeover. I never do. I didn't have the knowledge of the country when at Elfsborg to see many attributes but, also, I like to come in and write a post like this whilst looking through the players for the first time, setting up their training and development plans as well as forming ideas of how I plan to use them. I was immediately drawn to the three players below judging by their current ability: Lawrence, Nduquidi and Alvarez.

However, I never take that for gospel and I am certainly not overly keen on their statistical outputs, which you can see by clicking on the thumbnails above. However, walking into a club mid-season is always provides a difficult task to compare statistical outputs, especially when Leitl, my predecessor, favoured a wholly different style and formation. That being said, here are the first team players at the club:

Gebhart appears to be the better of the two keepers here but I can see that we're absolutely nowhere near the level that I really want as he's criminally weak on the ball. Early into my time here, I'll look to see just how bad he is at player as a Sweeper Keeper but this is an area that drastically needs reinforcements, particularly as we have no u19 players who can fill this role, either.

Passlack - club captain and ex-Dortmund star - is the best wide defender at the club but is certainly not of the same style as Jeng or Mbacke in Sweden. He's small and certainly favours an attacking situation rather than a defensive one, making me really consider how I set out my backline and whether building with a 2-3 or a 3-2 is what is needed and, importantly, possible, at the moment. Lawrence is a monster but neither he or Hajziri are particularly good with the ball. In terms of youngsters, Kozic is decent and Adams is the only left-footed left-back we seem to have at the club at the moment but, as is going to be my style, these two will see a significant amount of time spent micromanaging their development and a significant number of minutes on the pitch.

Masovic is an incredibly high earner and is probably best suited to a DM role as he doesn't excel in the air but will be able to win the ball back. As a team leader, I am conscious of his slight lack of professionalism but his Determination will be a useful thing to pass on to others. Another really expensive commodity is Malik Tillman, who, on sale price alone, must be playing to get himself into the shop window. Probably the only true creator in the team, I need to consider whether the play goes through him or we work the lines and spaces more in a counter-attacking style. I do know, though, that he'd clear a significant portion of debt and the 18 months on a wage plus bonus deal of €60k per week would save us €3.6m before we factor in any transfer fee. Teenager Max Maier could be the heir to his throne though as he looks to step up into the first team along with pacey winger Kohler. Nduquidi would be the perfect box-to-box player if only for his trait, which will see him not go forward.

Chibozo looks more suited to the wider areas whilst Alvarez can lead the line in another underwhelming area of the squad. I must say that I really didn't expect the team to look this poor but, maybe, that's why they are struggling to go anywhere and require the injection of new blood into the team, something that has been handled badly prior to my arrival. Fortunately, the youth squad looks like it could compliment that!

This is where the money will be made. I'm delighted with the potential we have here and there are some really interesting characters, namely the three below, but also with some depth to it. Since moving to attributes for the v1.5 of my skin, I feel that it has rejuvenated my interest in talent development and I can't wait to really dig into how these players are developing and performing at youth level before making the move to our senior side or elsewhere.

Defenders:

Patrick Meijerman | Yassir Cherkaoui | Maik Fischer | Florin Maier

Midfielders:

Wingers:

Daragh Murphy | Marc Drexler | Christoph Kuhn

Attackers:

Carlos Molina | Kim Neuer | Augustine Tchetchoua

Cherkaoui looks to be the a nice IWB style players, if I'm honest - given his passing and vision outweigh his ball carrying ability. He'll sit opposite the star of this team, certainly based on quality at given age, in Fischer - who has all the credentials to be a really good inverted full back - given his height and not too shabby ability on the ball. Sommer isn't far away from the first team by the looks of his attributes - a hard worker but also someone who has an eye for a pass whilst Theide may be a decent ball winner, or, even another IWB/IFB kind of player. I really like how Molina's attributes look - the stereotypical Spanish flair is evident in the young man whilst Augustine is quite similar to JBK in that I think he could do a job quite soon given his strong mental attributes.

My initial job is to create, very much like @MattyLewis11 and @Shrewnaldo have done, a squad of these youngsters and then create a tactical setup for them. It must mirror that of the first team but, if needs are different in terms of the player types - i.e. use of an IFB at left back isn't common in the first team but, with Fischer, it is in this team - then I need that shape to be played. I won't control games at this level but will spend time watching youth fixtures as I look to take as much interest in this group of eighteen as I do with the first team.

---

Feet under the desk. 13 days until Sandhausen, the bottom side, come to town - so much to do in that time! I'm hoping Germany treats me well but I've got myself a really nice little project!

SixPointer · February 4

Feels like the project. I’ve actually seen Bochum play, when visiting Berlin I went to a Union game when they were less famous and in the 2.liga. 2019 I think It was. I agree with shrew lovely kits especially the colour of the home kit.

The German leagues along with the Dutch leagues are definitely up there with my favourites to manage in.

I feel like this is going to be a fantastic place for you. Especially with the money issues driving you towards youth development, bring through another Leon Goretzka, İlkay Gündoğan or even a more recent Armel Bella-Kotchap.

Rikulec · February 4

Feels like a natural step up. Good luck in Germany!

danielgear · February 4

Great move Ben, nice step in career. And great introduction as always to the club

Shrewnaldo · February 4

Love it, you can tell that you've reignited your interest in the game after the waning at Elfsborg.

That link with Brommapojkarna is fantastic, particularly given the state of their academy. I'm never sure if their real-life success translates into FM given the game's over-reliance on reputation as a deciding factor but it'll surely help.

I'm liking the look of Carlos Molina - someone to build around?

Slipky · February 4

Great angle going into Germany like that. Got a soft spot for Bochum, had a super fun save with them on FM22.

Good luck!

Lestri · February 5

Plenty to do to get things back on track but that is what makes it so more exciting! Good luck

_Ben_ · February 5

@Lestri, @Slipky, @danielgear and @Rikulec:

Thanks for the kind words and best wishes as I head to Germany. I think that this, like you say, has really caught my imagination and will be a fun project. Glad to hear that, despite my extensive reading, they're not a club (like Hoffenheim or RB Leipzig) that are not thought favourably of!

11 hours ago, SixPointer said:

I feel like this is going to be a fantastic place for you. Especially with the money issues driving you towards youth development, bring through another Leon Goretzka, İlkay Gündoğan or even a more recent Armel Bella-Kotchap.

Oh, it absolutely will be! The change to my skin to show attributes has started this and I want to really dig into some of the things that I used to love about FM.

8 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

That link with Brommapojkarna is fantastic, particularly given the state of their academy. I'm never sure if their real-life success translates into FM given the game's over-reliance on reputation as a deciding factor but it'll surely help.

I'm liking the look of Carlos Molina - someone to build around?

We shall see! At minimum, I have more knowledge of Sweden and the link may give me some youth players, although I never feel it really works properly.

I do like Molina and, given that I'm going to be using slightly different instructions and roles for the U19 team, feel he'll play an important part. My thoughts, currently, are somewhat of an AP/IW/IF hybrid, cutting in from the right wing. We shall see how that goes!

SixPointer · February 5

38 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

@Lestri, @Slipky, @danielgear and @Rikulec:

Thanks for the kind words and best wishes as I head to Germany. I think that this, like you say, has really caught my imagination and will be a fun project. Glad to hear that, despite my extensive reading, they're not a club (like Hoffenheim or RB Leipzig) that are not thought favourably of!

Oh, it absolutely will be! The change to my skin to show attributes has started this and I want to really dig into some of the things that I used to love about FM.

We shall see! At minimum, I have more knowledge of Sweden and the link may give me some youth players, although I never feel it really works properly.

I do like Molina and, given that I'm going to be using slightly different instructions and roles for the U19 team, feel he'll play an important part. My thoughts, currently, are somewhat of an AP/IW/IF hybrid, cutting in from the right wing. We shall see how that goes!

Where can I find the update for the skin Ben. Now it has attributes and I’ve changed clubs it maybe time to give it a go!

danielgear · February 5

22 minutes ago, SixPointer said:

Where can I find the update for the skin Ben. Now it has attributes and I’ve changed clubs it maybe time to give it a go!

https://www.mediafire.com/file/18t2zkf2llgpumu/Statman24+v1.5.rar/file

SixPointer · February 5

2 minutes ago, danielgear said:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/18t2zkf2llgpumu/Statman24+v1.5.rar/file

Thanks 👍🏻

_Ben_ · February 5

1 hour ago, SixPointer said:

Thanks 👍🏻

Change the preferences, below, if you’d rather see the attributes opposed to the performance when clicking on a player.

rich ruzzian · February 5

5 hours ago, SixPointer said:

Where can I find the update for the skin Ben. Now it has attributes and I’ve changed clubs it maybe time to give it a go!

You wont regret it. I am using it now.

_Ben_ · February 5

I've really wanted to sit down and write some words about my initial thoughts around tactical and training development: from my attempt to mentor first teamers, U19 training units to how I plan to setup both sides on and off the pitch.

Initially, I had hoped to be able to play quite a similar style to Elfsborg but it became abundantly clear, straight off the bat, that it wouldn't be possible. Previously, Bochum lined up in either a 442 or a 532 shape, neither of which I really feel allow me to demonstrate my tactical ideology that is made up of direct counter attacking play once spaces and avenues can be worked, with a big emphasis on fluidity of movement and positional overloads. The absolute lack of a left back means that my initial shape, whilst also a 433, feels quite different to how I ended in Sweden. I can create a 3-2 in build up, arguably my preferred style through an IFB and two centre backs, making use of the positional play elements, whilst allowing Passlack to get forward and inside down the right. He's wholly unsuitable to an inverted role given his attributes and traits, which isn't ideal for me, really but I've not yet been able to create a shape that allows for a really offensive wide full back but it is certainly on my list of things to do.

To put it to the test, I invited Schalke for a behind-closed-doors kick about. The shape played out as a pretty basic 3-diamond-3/3-box-3 as I started with just the basic team instructions, those that can't really be altered by player roles: low crosses, play through the middle, counter and mid block with us balancing risk vs reward on a Balanced strategy. Honestly, it all felt a little vanilla and lacked a bit of inventiveness from my time at Elfsborg but that was to be expected, really. We scored three nice goals and conceded from a mix up in the penalty area from a corner, of which is being trained by a man also new to this job. I was expecting to win this game and win it well but there will certainly be a shift towards experimental shapes within this style as we go forward.

Today I learnt that I am able to play different shapes for my senior and youth sides, by setting the first tactic as the one that the youth side use. Therefore, I can create a shape for my youth side that will both suit their needs, rather than fit into the needs of the first team but also to experiment and try new shapes that hopefully will allow familiarity in certain roles that they could play for me. My intention is to keep the same theme as my first team have - a 433 shape with a counter attacking element, therefore using roles that encourage dribbling and positivity. My first draft looks like this. I want to see if I can create a different pattern to the 3-2 build up, opting here, initially at least, for a 2-3 shape, with the DC and IFB forming the back two whilst the IWB and L join the DM in transition. I do feel that, given my knowledge of shape and how many vertices a square has, that this will not meet that objective of a box midfield, so I may look to use a HB as this project progresses. However, the intention is to then create spaces for the right winger, mainly Molina, who is my most creative player. I have really liked how a T plays so would like to continue with this role going forward even if I'm not quite able to yet use it in the first team.

Like the first team, to test this new shape, my U19 team played a hastily arranged friendly against minnows Hulser SV. The opposition was pretty much irrelevant as I wanted to just explore how we do what I want us to do. The 4-0 result was great, as was 3.39xG at 0.10xG/shot and 65% of the ball. Individual performances were strong, too: Molina accrued 1.10xA in just forty-five minutes, whilst his replacement, Maier, then went on to accrue a further 0.71xA himself. Despite us lining up in a standard 433 shape, our OOP shape resembled a compact 4141, which is ideal for us to restrict space for our opponents. I was most interested in our build up play with the roles I've chosen. We start in a 2134 shape, as Thiede, the Libero, is slower at moving forward but are able to go one further than a box midfielder now; enter the pentagon! I'm not - honestly - completely sold on that shape and that is clear in a slower build up, where the CM(a) on the right side of midfield is too aggressive, pushing the left footed Tchetchoua out to the left hand side. My shoddily drawn diagram, where I swap over the two CM roles may allow the Cameroonian forward to move to the right but also continue to give as much space as possible for the AP(s) on the right wing, who is clearly the creative mastermind. It does make us rather narrow there as both players are left footed and are looking to come inside, particularly with an IWB behind them but I feel that the link up between and IWB(s) and a CM(s) on the same side will allow for easier verticality. It's just one match but there are some interesting observations already: Fischer looks great for his age and Weber broke the lines well with two chances and two key passes. However, it was the aggressive Kuhn, whose Decisions and Technique made him the standout, with seven key passes, four chances, a goal and two assists as often the most advanced player on the pitch.

What is clear to me from these two games - one managed by me and one set up by me, that we are playing variants of the same style, which is exactly what I want:

The left is the Schalke pass map and the right, as expected, is the more ball-heavy showing against Hulser. The back three, #3,#5,#4 makes a nice clear three, whereas, with the Libero as #5 in the second image, this build up becomes ever so more slightly staggered and gives me the opportunity to be more direct as a route to the number six, who remains a DM(s) in both shapes. The difference between an IW(s) and an AP(s) - left to right - is clear but that overload created by the AP/CM is nice, even if I want that with the creative striker rather than a runner, giving me more space centrally for a running midfielder to exploit. With two backs instead of three, the play spreads wider quicker and brings more combinations between my wide men, although the lower risk means that there are also more backwards passes there, too.

From writing this down I can really see that one game is far too early to make wholesale tactical reactions as I barely know the players, their attributes and traits nor the opposition and their roles. What it has done is excited me for what I can create long term and focussed me on the how of 'how will I get my players better' - the key performance metric of any good coach. My squad will, all being well, develop and change considerably over the coming years, largely based upon the eight eighteen year olds I have in my youth team - for they will need to be moved on or into the first team squad at the end of this season, meaning that the timeframe for moulding and developing is really short.

To ensure that I do my best here, I've spent some time looking at exactly what I want to develop with my youth players. Since going back to attributes, I can now create a nice average of each attribute value within my youth team to check progress and identify whether or not this plan is working, or not. Similarly to the squad building work done by @MattyLewis11, I have always been intrigued by youth attribute development and, with that, you naturally get a link to the Ajax model. I feel that our systems are hugely benefited by speed, technique and intelligence so - just like at Ajax - these are my foci at a formative age. For my youth sides, I'm going to taper the training across the week a little less than I would in the first team and will ensure specific focus on the areas that are key to the development of what we need:

From my averaging, I am already aware that Technique is one of the strongest attributes, with an average of just shy of 12 across all players with only Determination, Stamina and Natural Fitness ahead of that - three fantastic things to see as neither really will grow during these times. At the other end, Corners, Long Throws and Penalties are weakest but my first whole squad area of weaknesses are Composure and First Touch, which both sit below 10. My plan, using the above schedules, with huge focus on Technical work, is to get the players comfortable on the ball as well as used to the kind of styles we play - Direct Attacking and Overlap being key to our offensive structures. This will, in my eyes, grow and develop as I really learn what works best but I must thank the German FA for the relatively easy scheduling, whereby, at this level, I only have to worry about Saturday games and can plan ahead and also bring in Saturday friendlies in empty weeks, without overworking players or disrupting micro-scheduling.

Another element of change, this time stolen from @GIMN's PAOK save, is that I'll be changing the whole-squad additional focus each month. Many, many times have I read that foci are short term but, yet, have forgotten to change them for months if not years; therefore, the plan is to rotate between four: attacking movement, defensive movement, passing and ball control, for a total of three months each per year and see the impact that it has on their positional development and key skills. To help create rounded players, I'll use quite generic roles for their training - such as CF, RPM and BPD, looking to minimise any really weak areas before they enter the first team at just nineteen years old. Combine this with a monthly note that reminds me to praise and (hopefully not) criticise their performances, along with a three-monthly check in on their progress, should allow me to have a nice tight hold of the players I have in the youth sector of this side.

Once a player reaches the first team, my work with them on the training pitch is around creating the best player I can - traits and roles are then considered plus an even tighter check in with discussions around performances every time they rate below 6.50 or above 7.50. The plan is to really get to know the personalities of the first team as well as create a fit and high morale squad that puts work in earlier in the week before tapering to match day, potentially even using a more aggressive Monday where those involved are rested. This is an area I have seen talked about in professional football but have never once tried to integrate into FM, mainly for fear of forgetting to do the resting! If a player has not exerted themselves over the weekend, then their sharpness and fitness will drop so some more intense training on a Monday may be beneficial to them. It's an area to really consider. Again, schedules here are built around the core needs: disengaged defending first before engaged defending, lots of shadow play and direct, overlapping attacking. The remainder of the sessions are filled in with needs around technical work and are streamlined with the upcoming opposition and, as such, the match preparation, in mind.

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I don't really know if this has come across as any more than just a stream of conscious thoughts; I haven't actually settled on a style for my first team nor my youth team but have just expressed an interest in keeping them following the same core ideologies, despite potential differences in roles as well as looking at how I can get the best from my youth development. Now, I need to put it into practice. Sort out the coaching staff, utilise the scouting team to build knowledge of the teams in this league (I use the Team Report feature for every 2.Bundesliga team to get a rough idea of ability etc) and fine tune a few things before we get going, for real...

Edited February 6 by _Ben_

Shrewnaldo · February 5

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

For the Schalke match, is the #11 the AP(S) on the right-wing? He seems to have held his width a lot more than I would have expected - which I'm assuming is down to the positioning of the IWB behind him. So I'm just wondering how that works through build-up - does he stay wide to receive the ball then cut into his left foot looking for the pass inside, or does he still roam off the touchline as he would if there were an overlapping fullback behind him?

Quote

potentially even using a more aggressive Monday where those involved are rested

Love this idea. Definitely stealing that.

_Ben_ · February 6

7 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

For the Schalke match, is the #11 the AP(S) on the right-wing? He seems to have held his width a lot more than I would have expected - which I'm assuming is down to the positioning of the IWB behind him. So I'm just wondering how that works through build-up - does he stay wide to receive the ball then cut into his left foot looking for the pass inside, or does he still roam off the touchline as he would if there were an overlapping fullback behind him?

No. The image on the left - the Schalke game - has an IW(s) on the right wing. Tillman could do that job but I don't feel that we've got the necessary creativity anywhere else for us to use that in the first team. Plus, you can see that the AP(s) has pulled the IWB(s) closer to him, giving him more of the ball. For the youth side, Cherkaoui isn't bad - for his age and stage of development - on the ball but that does not suit Passlack's game and I don't need an excuse to pull him higher, despite his top speed which would, hopefully, aid his recovery. On the left, below, is the heat map of the IW(s) from the Schalke game and the right is the AP(s) from the Hulser game - very different applications of the ''wide right' role! I have the IW(s) to stay wider because it helps in the build up play but that isn't the case with the AP(s), who I want to get on the ball in the pockets of space between the lines and between the full back and centre back.

Then, add that to the IWB(s) positioning, again with the left being against Schalke, and you see what it does, too:

The playmaker invites more possession and occupation centrally but obviously I have to take into account that Passlack will get forward whenever possible and work the line more, despite that space already sometimes being filled by the IW(s).

I've really got to consider this build up shape but, as with any new job for me, I want to work from the backline upwards, so will probably ignore the wide men for some time until I have become happy with my defensive shape and early transitional play. That, for me, always feels harder without my squad, particularly when some - if not all - of these defenders are really not the type that I'd want to be using.

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8 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Love this idea. Definitely stealing that.

In theory, this should work! I know you can only have a Match Review on Match Day +1 so that brings into play the question of 'is it worth it?' or 'do I add that tough day on Match Day +2? If I go for the latter, those who haven't played will go through a Match Review and then a Recovery session, despite already being recovered. Therefore, if the below areas are already pretty solid, I could easily remove it.

I then have to weigh up what is better for those that have played:

I lose some of the benefits of increased condition but I regain sharpness much better...

milenec11 · February 6

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

No. The image on the left - the Schalke game - has an IW(s) on the right wing. Tillman could do that job but I don't feel that we've got the necessary creativity anywhere else for us to use that in the first team. Plus, you can see that the AP(s) has pulled the IWB(s) closer to him, giving him more of the ball. For the youth side, Cherkaoui isn't bad - for his age and stage of development - on the ball but that does not suit Passlack's game and I don't need an excuse to pull him higher, despite his top speed which would, hopefully, aid his recovery. On the left, below, is the heat map of the IW(s) from the Schalke game and the right is the AP(s) from the Hulser game - very different applications of the ''wide right' role! I have the IW(s) to stay wider because it helps in the build up play but that isn't the case with the AP(s), who I want to get on the ball in the pockets of space between the lines and between the full back and centre back.

Then, add that to the IWB(s) positioning, again with the left being against Schalke, and you see what it does, too:

The playmaker invites more possession and occupation centrally but obviously I have to take into account that Passlack will get forward whenever possible and work the line more, despite that space already sometimes being filled by the IW(s).

I've really got to consider this build up shape but, as with any new job for me, I want to work from the backline upwards, so will probably ignore the wide men for some time until I have become happy with my defensive shape and early transitional play. That, for me, always feels harder without my squad, particularly when some - if not all - of these defenders are really not the type that I'd want to be using.

---

In theory, this should work! I know you can only have a Match Review on Match Day +1 so that brings into play the question of 'is it worth it?' or 'do I add that tough day on Match Day +2? If I go for the latter, those who haven't played will go through a Match Review and then a Recovery session, despite already being recovered. Therefore, if the below areas are already pretty solid, I could easily remove it.

I then have to weigh up what is better for those that have played:

I lose some of the benefits of increased condition but I regain sharpness much better...

The day one after the match put the team on double training load with this schedule recover ,recovery match review , do not left gaps with the option rest because reduced match sharpness use recovery . My experience…..

Chris_ANZFM · February 6

Welcome to Germany.

This move seems better timed than the original move to Elfsborg; can already sense your enthusiasm returning.

I’ll very graciously accept your return to attributes as I will most definitely take advantage of your skin now, I tried without atts but it’s just too much to take in without appropriate playing time to sink into it all.

Lestri · February 7

16 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

No. The image on the left - the Schalke game - has an IW(s) on the right wing. Tillman could do that job but I don't feel that we've got the necessary creativity anywhere else for us to use that in the first team. Plus, you can see that the AP(s) has pulled the IWB(s) closer to him, giving him more of the ball. For the youth side, Cherkaoui isn't bad - for his age and stage of development - on the ball but that does not suit Passlack's game and I don't need an excuse to pull him higher, despite his top speed which would, hopefully, aid his recovery. On the left, below, is the heat map of the IW(s) from the Schalke game and the right is the AP(s) from the Hulser game - very different applications of the ''wide right' role! I have the IW(s) to stay wider because it helps in the build up play but that isn't the case with the AP(s), who I want to get on the ball in the pockets of space between the lines and between the full back and centre back.

Then, add that to the IWB(s) positioning, again with the left being against Schalke, and you see what it does, too:

The playmaker invites more possession and occupation centrally but obviously I have to take into account that Passlack will get forward whenever possible and work the line more, despite that space already sometimes being filled by the IW(s).

I've really got to consider this build up shape but, as with any new job for me, I want to work from the backline upwards, so will probably ignore the wide men for some time until I have become happy with my defensive shape and early transitional play. That, for me, always feels harder without my squad, particularly when some - if not all - of these defenders are really not the type that I'd want to be using.

---

In theory, this should work! I know you can only have a Match Review on Match Day +1 so that brings into play the question of 'is it worth it?' or 'do I add that tough day on Match Day +2? If I go for the latter, those who haven't played will go through a Match Review and then a Recovery session, despite already being recovered. Therefore, if the below areas are already pretty solid, I could easily remove it.

I then have to weigh up what is better for those that have played:

I lose some of the benefits of increased condition but I regain sharpness much better...

I would love to have a played vs not played training schedule option for this exact reason. Though I haven't tried it, I wonder whether the effectiveness of the Match Review reduces when your team is in the upper levels of Team Cohesion and Tactical Familiarity, usually when you are post pre-season and playing a regular number of games, thus itself keeping things going on that front. So my hypothesis, so to speak, is that manually resting players, and having MD+1 to be a normal day of training may work until we can have different schedules for players vs non-players.

Hootieleece · February 7

2 minutes ago, Lestri said:

I would love to have a played vs not played training schedule option for this exact reason. Though I haven't tried it, I wonder whether the effectiveness of the Match Review reduces when your team is in the upper levels of Team Cohesion and Tactical Familiarity, usually when you are post pre-season and playing a regular number of games, thus itself keeping things going on that front. So my hypothesis, so to speak, is that manually resting players, and having MD+1 to be a normal day of training may work until we can have different schedules for players vs non-players.

I usually do a Recovery, Match Review, and Team Bonding on a day after a match. If I only have 2 periods because of travel, I always do Recovery and either Match Review or Team Bonding. Team Bonding if it was a bigger team and we were expected to lose. I find it more important to keep morale up and that tactical cohesion and familiarity come from rotation of the squad.

Shrewnaldo · February 7

The only issue there is that Recovery sessions reduce injuries and injury susceptibility of the players who were picked on pitch day, cf a rest.

Rest, meanwhile, is marginally better for fatigue and general condition recovery.

But if you want that injury protection, then you can't rest players on MD+1

Lestri · February 7

45 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

The only issue there is that Recovery sessions reduce injuries and injury susceptibility of the players who were picked on pitch day, cf a rest.

Rest, meanwhile, is marginally better for fatigue and general condition recovery.

But if you want that injury protection, then you can't rest players on MD+1

Great point re injury protection - In the "Rest" tab under Training screen, you can select "No Pitch or Gym Work". Now from what I can read of the Recovery tab, this has the weights symbol, so not too sure if this counts as "gym work". If it doesn't, you could argue that selecting one session of Recovery and then straight into it would give those players who played a day off and allow the non-players to get one to two sessions on that day of training? Just spitballing ideas.

RogerC · February 7

6 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

The only issue there is that Recovery sessions reduce injuries and injury susceptibility of the players who were picked on pitch day, cf a rest.

Rest, meanwhile, is marginally better for fatigue and general condition recovery.

But if you want that injury protection, then you can't rest players on MD+1

I've tested the resting the first XI MD+1 in a save over a few seasons and I didn't really notice any change in injuries. I did not do it always, but I'd say for around 80% of the season.

Shrewnaldo · February 7

6 hours ago, Lestri said:

Great point re injury protection - In the "Rest" tab under Training screen, you can select "No Pitch or Gym Work". Now from what I can read of the Recovery tab, this has the weights symbol, so not too sure if this counts as "gym work". If it doesn't, you could argue that selecting one session of Recovery and then straight into it would give those players who played a day off and allow the non-players to get one to two sessions on that day of training? Just spitballing ideas.

I didn't know that re the Rest option. Sadly, the icon would indicate that this would include Recovery. Otherwise, you could blast an Endurance session (which the utilised players would skip) and then Recovery for all

44 minutes ago, RogerC said:

I've tested the resting the first XI MD+1 in a save over a few seasons and I didn't really notice any change in injuries. I did not do it always, but I'd say for around 80% of the season.

EBFM's tests indicated Recovery sessions improved average injury time from 12 days to 8. Might not seem that significant if it were every spread as 4 days per player, but reducing injuries by a third sounds pretty good to me.

Sorry for hijacking your thread Ben!

_Ben_ · February 9

The passage below very much feels to be an exert from the diaries of a madman. I wrote it live, documenting each game as if it were a standalone part of the update and then found myself arguing with my own thoughts from previous. Essentially, the TLDR version is that I am losing a little bit of engagement with the save because I can’t quite work out what I want to do! The results are great – really great – but I just haven’t quite found pleasure in the build up style that I crave an understanding and a hold of!

---

We got off to the perfect start against bottom side Sandhausen as Lawrence and his 6’7” frame jumped highest to nod home an Osterhage corner – with this strike somehow being his first of the season. I feel that Bakayoko, the Ivorian who joined my coaching team at Elfsborg before moving on to just join me here in Germany will have a field day working on set pieces with such a dominant aerial force to aim for. Our lead was doubled as a well worked throw in from Adams, via Osterhage was converted neatly into the corner by top scorer Chibozo just after the half an hour mark, leaving me in dreamland. A strong save from a Malone header was then tucked away by the Sandhausen winger as he reacted quicker than Passlack at the back post to cut the deficit in half. Pleasingly, we didn’t allow the momentum to change hands and kept the lion’s share of dangerous possession for the final twenty minutes to secure a big victory for us. 2.12xG from a total of twenty-four shots with three shots against the woodwork, against 0.92xGA from 8 shots is a strong start but I will need to continue to identify defensive frailties that we may have. Whilst this is not a new shape to me, there are concerns – for me – around the effectiveness of our early transition as we bring Passlack into play very early in this phase: and he’s not the ideal creator from deep. I need to consider how to do this: do I want to push the wingback high and wide early on, bringing a more creative player in place or continue with this safer build up that does go through him. With centre backs that aren’t exactly great on the ball, I also need to consider the type of passes that they are playing and the success of them. I like the link up but an average of 92% pass completion with a total of just sixty-eight of the one hundred and eighty-five (36.8%) going forward tells me that even the added risk of the BPD(d) role still is keeping this lot from ‘launching defence splitting passes’ when it is, naturally, their longer balls that are unsuccessful.

I don’t dislike Felix Passlack - far from it – but he’s just not disciplined enough to play a part in our defensive and early transitional phases, which prompted me into a different shape – a 4231 – against Furth’s 442. The IFB-BPD-HB will form a nice aggressive passing back three in transition and allow me to drop in the more creative Nduquidi, pushing Passlack high and wide. With the new elements of positional play, I’ll see more shapes like this, where Passlack and Kohler are wide right and Osterhage comes out to the left with Chibozo, leaving huge spaces for the Libero, Hajziri. Sadly, he’s also unsuited for this role really so it’s kind of a ‘six of one, half a dozen of another’ situation, although his limited passing will not necessarily catch us out in the same way as the aggressive forward movement of an IWB in the other shape. My reasoning for using a L(s) and a HB(d) is all around creativity and fluidity in movement, despite, essentially, creating the same shape as a traditional defender and a playmaker ahead of him would do. The HB(d) also gives me a more creative man in the first line of the build-up and, despite using Tillman as a SS(a) in this picture, I think it opens up space beautifully for a creative #10 to float around the centre of the pitch and look to receive the ball from the L(s). Also, using Alvarez as a T(a) means I open us up for more third man runs and it was one that brought the first goal, as Tillman tapped in from close range. Youngster Kohler had a penalty saved just after the hour mark but Konig, a late substitute, sealed the points from a nicely worked free kick in injury time. 0.48xGA from nine shots is a great return away from home, even if (penalty aside) we were somewhat profligate, scoring twice from our 2.88xG. All of a sudden, the shape feels less of a pipedream and more of a realistic outcome, even if I’ve just seen it once and against a flat 442 shape.

Our winning streak ended with a draw at Kaiserslautern, where I’d argue that we were unlucky not to come away with three points. As a Villa fan, someone who follows Talking Tactics on X and someone who is currently trying to work out a double pivot in FM, this post really stuck with me and is quite similar to how I’m trying to set up, as seen by this still from the Aston Villa vs Chelsea game where Cash and Moreno are wide and Kamara is the third centre back. I am currently dropping Nduquidi into the backline, in a very Kamara-esque style, which allows Passlack to bomb on, in the same way that Matty Cash does. Despite their goal coming from an already ‘set’ defensive shape, the 1v1 in each defensive area is a worry as is the general issue that I feel this shape creates when there is a transition. Furthermore, you look at the heatmap/touch map of Passlack and Tillman and you’ll see that the WB(a) and IW(s) both occupied the same areas, which massively restricts our entries to the box and our passes in Zone 14. Our lack of central key passes and the fact that virtually none of our ‘passes lost’ come outside of the penalty area widths tells me that there are inconsistencies between my ideology of central play and the actual enacted tactical plan. For me, this is really pleasing to see that, just a game ago, I was nothing but positive about the shape but now, with more depth to my viewing knowledge and different opposition, I am feeling that it’s not quite what I want it to be. It's not bad. But just not right for me.

With more thought of our 6,8 and 10 being too isolated, I went back to the drawing board for the Karlsruhe tie, using inverted wing backs again against their 442 shape. Bringing the HB(d) into the defensive line, again, allows me more creativity from the back but it was a little bit of a shoe-horn to get Passlack into that role. Lawrence struck early and Tchetchoua scored, on debut, to put us ahead of the side who started the day in fourth. They worked a central overload to get one back but we held on, again winning on xG and danger of possession. A mid-match change from HB(d) to DM(s), adding a L(s) and an IFB(d) instead of a BPD(d) and IWB(s) meant that our pass map was a little skewed but, again, it didn’t quite feel right. This time, it was Tillman who was virtually unknown throughout the game. Whilst these tweaks in roles are all well and good, I really need to settle on a style and build some familiarity with it!

Wurzburger visited and we played with the same shape that the youth team use – the 433 with an IFB, BPD, BPD, IWB backline, allowing a box with the DM(s) and then the CM(a) and CM(s) ahead with Molina – on debut – entrusted with the AP(s) role on the right wing, where he played in the youth setup. We absolutely battered them and, had Tchetchoua not missed a penalty, we’d have won the game. It felt a little nicer and more balanced, but I am not overlooking the fact that our opponents are among the weakest in this division. Our combinations feel stronger but I really think that Passlack’s traits make him move wider and more aggressively than he should!

Still unhappy with the player and role combinations, I played the same shape against Fortuna and escaped with a 1-1 draw despite conceding 4.04xGA – none of it from penalties! We then went on to win 2-0 against Keil with youngsters Molina and Tchetchoua netting early on, which is great for me but, again, I just messed around with shapes - an IWB(a) was used for the first time along with two HB(d) and all kinds of other things...

STOP!

I need to think about what my core principles are and how I want to play the game. I then need to rethink who I actually have at the squad who is good enough to get into the team and then I need to give it some time, with small match-by-match adaptations, not entire changes in shape! Another X post, below, caught my eye at the perfect time in this tactical minefield that I am going through:

Let’s adopt the Hammarby approach, then…

What do I want the play to look like?

Calm build-up through numerical advantages in a 3-2 shape
Progress the ball forward vertically through overloads in the centre of the pitch.
Get the ball into and around zone 14.
Run at the opposition defence and counter attack from turnovers in the middle third.
Win the ball back through a solid defensive line rather than committing to duels.

What metrics matter to me?

55% + Possession (league high is 58%)
Progressive passes/90 (player high is 6.66 per game)
High key pass: pass completed ratio
High passes into the final third (league high is 90 per game)
Dribbles/90 (league high is 14.64 per game)
Open play xA (player high is 0.37 per game)
Interceptions/90 (player high is 3.46 per game)

Now I need to look at how I can create that with what I have. Reading this article outlines three basic ways that I can create the bottom half of my box whilst employing a 433 shape, the one that I feel is the most suitable for us when facing defensive turnovers.

Quote

Mikel Arteta has used an inverted full-back, Pep Guardiola has finally settled on pushing a centre-back up, Xavi’s Barcelona sees the left-winger invert as an auxiliary No.10

Both of the first two shapes would require an IFB and I think I have that in Adams or, lately through my experimentation, Kozic. When you compare their heatmap, you’ll see that, actually, the latter is more positionally suited to that role as Adams has demonstrated – on numerous occasions – that he’s still a flying wing back when the opportunity arrives. That would then leave a choice of either the Arteta method of Passlack cutting in as an IWB, Hajrizi moving up as an L(s) in the Guardiola method or Tillman or even Molina cutting inside as an AP(s) on the right wing in the Xavi method. Next, I have to consider whether I want to create a flat double pivot where my DM and an MC would sit alongside each other or the DM and either the IWB(s) or the L(s) or create a diamond where the DM(s) sits behind a combo of something like a CM(d) and CM(a), with Xavi’s inverted playmaker at the top.

Right now, I think the players at my disposal suit the Xavi method. We are short at left back but I’ve been unable to source an optimal backup and Passlack’s aggressive nature does not lend itself to either an IFB or an IWB. Long term, I’d like to move away from this transitional style, maintaining my playing ethos but moving to either the Arteta or Guardiola method of box creation, as to not sacrifice creativity further up the pitch. With that thought in mind, the next job is to look at how the midfield works. I am, and always have been, loathed to play a shape that the AI cannot use and, as such, won’t move to changing the wide midfielder to a central one. I think I’ve covered most potential bases on how the midfield three could line up, with Molina/Tillman always being the AP(s) on the right wing.

I think that I’d prefer the shape on the left, as I do prefer the box to the diamond as it allows for more space between the lines to move into. The traits of the three players: Nduquidi: dictates tempo, looks for pass, moves ball to right, stays back at all times; Osterhage: gets forward, looks for pass rather than attempting to score and Tillman: runs with ball through centre shouldn’t negatively impact this idea but my biggest concern is getting Molina (or whoever plays in that AP(s) role) to come centrally and create a box, or, realistically, a pentagon with the T(a) sitting atop it. We need to be making more inroads in zone 14 and progressing the ball through the middle of the park. Our scoring rate is poor and, without the height of a Target Man or the creativity of two wide men, I really need to just focus on creating situations where I have more players who can make things happen!

That being said – results aren’t exactly bad! As you can see, we’re undefeated since I took over and moving up the table. We’re nailed on for another season at this level, at least, where I can really work on getting it right. My thoughts, since moving here and moving to, potentially, the last stop (country wise) within the game, is that I am going to be style over substance because I want to create something beautiful and, if that means another couple of years working through things, then so be it!

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With so much focus on getting it right tactically, the transfer window has somewhat passed us by. I was able to move on several high earners, in an attempt to give us some wiggle room but, sadly, none of that went into the actual budget and I was restricted to just the signing of Luca Podlech, a keeper who had played pretty well despite Schalke's demise over the last couple of years. It was important to find a keeper who is good with their feet and I think he fits the bill pretty well. My plans for the remainder of the season are to find something that works for me whilst I have Passlack - one of my best and most valuable players. At 30, however, I'll need to keep a close eye on what comes next, particularly as hot prospect Cherkaoui is of the IWB mould. I will also look at collecting some baseline team data so that I can begin to implement the Hammarby approach with both taking into account the match result and the match performance. A bit of a strange update and a much shorter match-spell than I anticipated or really even wanted but I got lost down a rabbit hole!

SixPointer · February 9

I think this years FM is when you can truly make these build up shapes. For a very long time I have been trying these things but never worked. This closest I could get was HB and wingbacks in the DM - slot. Now we have so many options.

I’ve yet to find a player in my Andes save capable of playing the libero role well, but I would say this is the most exciting role in terms of build up shapes.

Lawrence was a goal machine for me at the near post in Austria in FM23. He is basically a corner exploit.

The hammarby philosophy is something very interesting Ben, I feel as a modern day fan we are more interested than ever in club tactical style. It used to only be about getting three points now we want to win three points a certain way!

Shrewnaldo · February 9

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

What do I want the play to look like?

Calm build-up through numerical advantages in a 3-2 shape

Progress the ball forward vertically through overloads in the centre of the pitch.

Get the ball into and around zone 14.

Run at the opposition defence and counter attack from turnovers in the middle third.

Win the ball back through a solid defensive line rather than committing to duels.

What metrics matter to me?

55% + Possession (league high is 58%)

Progressive passes/90 (player high is 6.66 per game)

High key pass: pass completed ratio

High passes into the final third (league high is 90 per game)

Dribbles/90 (league high is 14.64 per game)

Open play xA (player high is 0.37 per game)

Interceptions/90 (player high is 3.46 per game)

Love this. I find myself in similar situations where I will fall into a trial-and-error mindset of just finding something that works, unless I force myself into more strategical thinking where I have a defined end goal and some metrics to judge the success of that. This is right up my street - although we definitely have a few key differences in preferred approach, there are obvious overlaps.

Will you be coming back at the end of each season to 'report' against these metrics?

Quote

I am, and always have been, loathed to play a shape that the AI cannot use

Amen.

Edited February 9 by Shrewnaldo

Slipky · February 9

Amazing as always, Ben. Pretty analytical and well documented - I love it! Closely following, can't wait for more! Really looks like the Bochum move reignited the save with some much needed fuel.

john1 · February 9

Amazing write up once again :applause:

_Ben_ · February 10

On 09/02/2024 at 10:36, Slipky said:

Amazing as always, Ben. Pretty analytical and well documented - I love it! Closely following, can't wait for more! Really looks like the Bochum move reignited the save with some much needed fuel.

22 hours ago, john1 said:

Amazing write up once again

Thanks! The reignition does really feel like it's there because this team is so poor! I'm having to work overtime to get anything decent out of them and I'd say we have been really, really lucky, so far. Around 75% of this squad is 'up for sale' in my eyes - if we want to seriously make progress!

On 09/02/2024 at 08:28, SixPointer said:

I think this years FM is when you can truly make these build up shapes. For a very long time I have been trying these things but never worked. This closest I could get was HB and wingbacks in the DM - slot. Now we have so many options.

I’ve yet to find a player in my Andes save capable of playing the libero role well, but I would say this is the most exciting role in terms of build up shapes.

I had a Libero at Elfsborg and I think I can develop one here but the lack of two really solid IFB is holding me back. Passlack is so offensive yet a strong player for this team without true sell on value, so I may as well make the most of him! It's forcing me to think of different ways to create the shapes I want.

On 09/02/2024 at 08:28, SixPointer said:

The hammarby philosophy is something very interesting Ben, I feel as a modern day fan we are more interested than ever in club tactical style. It used to only be about getting three points now we want to win three points a certain way!

On 09/02/2024 at 10:19, Shrewnaldo said:

Will you be coming back at the end of each season to 'report' against these metrics?

The team stats are a little harder to judge compared to player ones (end of season stat subtract overall stat when taking over divided by minutes played times ninety is fine) so it's likely that I'll create some new ones at the start of next season, given an anticipated squad overhaul, too.

On 09/02/2024 at 10:19, Shrewnaldo said:

Love this. I find myself in similar situations where I will fall into a trial-and-error mindset of just finding something that works, unless I force myself into more strategical thinking where I have a defined end goal and some metrics to judge the success of that. This is right up my street - although we definitely have a few key differences in preferred approach, there are obvious overlaps.

I think the key word for me is focus. I'm happier than ever now to play around with things in the match engine but a goal to work towards stops this becoming a silly exercise of tactical gymnastics.

_Ben_ · February 10

I want to keep my tactical thoughts a little more condensed in this update but the major concerns that I felt were not with the solidity of our defence; the goals conceded are hugely skewed towards defensive mistakes and just not being as good. Instead, I felt that our midfield was not giving us the most opportunities to overload the middle. Early in transition, our shape was lending itself to trying to recreate the box with the central mid – Osterhage – dropping deeper to collect the ball. However, that was stifling us of on-ball opportunities higher up the pitch. That, combined with the frequency of facing a 442, meant that the 3-2 shape had become a little obsolete – five defensive players around just two of their forwards as their wide midfielders rarely press centrally. With thoughts of ‘remove the attacking WB and go central again’ thoroughly, and forcibly, removed from my head, I changed the idea of the box midfield to encompass more of a 3151/3133 shape (with different combinations) and even a 235, with a holding midfielder sitting in front of the defence and then a CM(a)/BBM(s) combo that gave me two players in zone fourteen, with the addition of the AP(s) pulling inside as the WB(a) overlapped. Possibly not end-game with this but, given the shape restrictions due to the players I have, it certainly felt more useful.

I must say, things worked out pretty well...

A strong end to the season with just one defeat in the last twelve sees us end up in sixth place. We've shot up the table, moving from fourteenth to seventh by the end of the transfer window but have pretty much performed on a par with those above us, failing to close the gap with too many dropped points. That being said, we've been on top in most of these games and have been somewhat held back by a little lack of creativity and a lack of a proper scorer up top. Alvarez finishes the season as top scorer but has barely contributed anything since his goal against Braunschweig back in March and, despite all of Tillman's praise, just five assists for our best player isn't the greatest of returns. Summer will be difficult - we're losing money and have some high earners, meaning that I'm going to be heavily restricted and will have to look at both integrating more and more youth but also selling players and replacing them with cheaper options, almost certainly harming any attempts at a promotion push next year. That being said, I must take the rough with the smooth and be thankful that I've not suffered similar to Schalke's plight as they now drop out of the third tier and out of the playable leagues that I have running.

What I am excited for - given the move from a calendar schedule to an autumn-spring schedule is a break! It's been eighteen months since an off season, where I can begin to analyse, create and adapt for our next push.

---

Looking further down the line, our youth intake was strong and has given me a number of options to work with over the coming years. With nine players reaching the upper threshold for age in the U19 and the purposeful decision to move to a team without a II club, questions must be asked about their longer term playing pathway and whether I realistically see them being able to be a part of the first team, or not. From this group – and this is not solely based on potential ability – I believe that Molina, Tchetchoua, Sommer, Voss and Thiede all have the attribute balance, personality and have performed well enough in my youth tactical approach to be considered for first team football. Upon this intake, I moved those five to the first team in order for them to experience training, mentoring and some game time. This then left me with the decision of what to do with the others; my initial thoughts are to try and sell them for a tiny fee with a buy back clause involved, just in case they are able to kick on and develop. With these places up for grabs, I signed eleven of the youth intake and have really high hopes for the six below:

A Japanese centre back who has the potential to become a Libero in my system: what else could I ask for! Katsuhiro is pretty well rounded and, with his potential in a role that is empty, I feel he can slot in next to Fischer, who occupies the IFB role on the left. He needs some physical work and to improve a little bit in the defender part of his job, but, for his age, looks mentally strong and pretty well suited to progress the ball from deep. Nils Lennart Schonwalder was designated as the star of this intake and it’s clear to see why. At just sixteen, he’s incredibly well developed technically and has a good level of intelligence. His area of development, later in this cycle, will certainly be around his physicality – right now he looks unable to fulfil a demanding midfield role, particularly that false sense of bravery – getting into the tackles but then being muscled off the ball far too easily. Klussman’s personality, lack of natural fitness and smaller stature very much make him second fiddle in the now-vacant DM role. However, he’s not too bad when it comes to creativity from deep – although that’s not currently something that I’m necessarily looking for.

Both Samake and Sadirov excite me! As wrong-footed wingers who are more than just wingers, I see this as becoming a nice double header. The young part-Ivorian lad is nippy and agile and has an eye for a pass whereas the Russian has that but is also a little stronger when presented with a scoring chance. These two perfectly suit the IW(s)/IW(a) combo I envisage us running with going forward. Both are a little unathletic but are both young enough that there will be natural gains here. By training both on the T(a) schedule, I hope to develop clever, technical, agile wide men who are able of carrying the ball and finding the final pass. I do have some concerns around the personality traits of Sadirov but will look to learn what is working well in terms of praise and criticism in order to get the most from his development. With the vacancy made by Molina’s age and Kohler already in the first team, this feels like a strong area for the academy at present. Maik Bothmann really excites me for a creative striker role but also as a player who can finish a chance on the last man. He’s pacey and agile even if a little blinkered when on the ball. His need is clear – technical ability – but, providing that he naturally grows stronger, this can be his focus for the next four to five years.

---

As I said, the summer will be tough. I've already utilised the help of intermediaries and will be hopefully offloading the below bit-part players:

Some money will be recouped here and I will be moving on those who haven't played or have really underperformed in the first team, after being brought in by the previous regime. Furthermore, I will have choices to make about the over-age players from the youth team who will hopefully clear some extra money on the wage bill and give me an opportunity to bring them back, should they develop with first team football. Lastly, I have the sell if needed pile, currently with two men - below - who could help generate funds and, in Hajziri's case, not leave for nothing, in order to strengthen elsewhere:

Let's see what happens!

SixPointer · February 10

Already looks like some high potential players are on the way.

In terms of build up shapes I usually go with the 2-3-5 as I feel it covers well against counters, but with the improved positional play the 3-1-3-3 you have looks very good, i think you can make the build up shapes so fluid now with the the IWB’ IFB and LIB. Could potentially have a HB rotating in there as well. So many moving parts.

i really can’t wait to get stuck into some game time tomorrow you’ve spiked my tactical thinking and now at a better club it could take on a new shape

Edited February 10 by SixPointer

Shrewnaldo · February 10

Loving this. Are you having the same issue I'm having with the getting the right wing-back's starting position to be high enough? I like that he plays relatively deep through the defensive and into the middle third, but as the ball progresses through the middle-third I'd really like him to play as high and wide as possible but feel like the only way I can do this is by changing the team's overall mentality - which I'm loathe to do.

You mentioned Mentoring too - how successful are you finding that? I noticed that in a previous screenshot you'd gone with multiple senior mentors to a single mentee. This is not how I've done it in the past, but I've been having very little success with this. Is your method more fruitful?

Hootieleece · February 10

5 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

You mentioned Mentoring too - how successful are you finding that? I noticed that in a previous screenshot you'd gone with multiple senior mentors to a single mentee. This is not how I've done it in the past, but I've been having very little success with this. Is your method more fruitful?

I have success with mentoring either one Mentor or many mentors to mentees by having them divided up by position types. Usually, I keep the GK's and Defenders together, midfielders in a group, Attacking players in another. If I have a lot of players vying for one type of role and position I will create at mentor group for that.

The Most important things for Mentors are Personality and Social Status within the team. It is better if the mentees are from the same social circle or part of the core and mentor is also.

If the mentor has ppm's you want him to teach bonus!

Shrewnaldo · February 10

51 minutes ago, Hootieleece said:

I have success with mentoring either one Mentor or many mentors to mentees by having them divided up by position types. Usually, I keep the GK's and Defenders together, midfielders in a group, Attacking players in another. If I have a lot of players vying for one type of role and position I will create at mentor group for that.

The Most important things for Mentors are Personality and Social Status within the team. It is better if the mentees are from the same social circle or part of the core and mentor is also.

If the mentor has ppm's you want him to teach bonus!

Yeah I'm aware of all of that - the only thing I was wondering was the multiple mentors to single mentee, versus single mentor to multiple mentees. I'd always gone with the latter. But I just generally find mentoring to be of limited use these days. I was going to say "completely ineffectual" but literally just now my mentee has ticked over from Temperamental to Balanced so effectual... just very slowly.

And it's that pace which irritates me. Doing all the right things with hierarchy, social group, training unit etc yet the impact of Mentoring is way slower and less reliable than the impact on Determination to general squad members. Surely, if anything, mentoring should just be faster than non-mentoring impacts?

Anyway, I'm at danger of derailing Ben's threads again :-D

Hootieleece · February 11

@Shrewnaldo

Training in general has been slowed down not just mentoring. Have you tried retraining a player to be "natural" in another position. Even when he plays there every match and trains every day with Double Sessions it often takes the Whole Season.

I think that it is just a little more realistic.

The General upticks due to Squad means you have created a good club culture.......just keep following the "NFL Patriot Way" LOL!

@_Ben_ Do you have anything to contribute to this discussion?

_Ben_ · February 11

13 hours ago, SixPointer said:

In terms of build up shapes I usually go with the 2-3-5 as I feel it covers well against counters, but with the improved positional play the 3-1-3-3 you have looks very good, i think you can make the build up shapes so fluid now with the the IWB’ IFB and LIB. Could potentially have a HB rotating in there as well. So many moving parts.

11 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Loving this. Are you having the same issue I'm having with the getting the right wing-back's starting position to be high enough? I like that he plays relatively deep through the defensive and into the middle third, but as the ball progresses through the middle-third I'd really like him to play as high and wide as possible but feel like the only way I can do this is by changing the team's overall mentality - which I'm loathe to do.

The shape issue, for me, has been the most successful part of my time here at Bochum, so far. I identified an issue (likelihood of facing a 442) and then adapted to it (removing an extra player from the early transition) so to see it work so nicely is great! I agree about the WB though - which is infuriating considering the amount of time I've spent thinking about this because of the players I have. I don't want to go any higher risk because it'll mean I end up playing fast paced hoofball and my squad isn't able to do that but he's just a little lethargic in moving to become that extra winger.

11 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

You mentioned Mentoring too - how successful are you finding that? I noticed that in a previous screenshot you'd gone with multiple senior mentors to a single mentee. This is not how I've done it in the past, but I've been having very little success with this. Is your method more fruitful?

I only tried it because I was having no success the other way - with multiple groups with one mentor in them. This one hasn't sped anything up really, either. It's giving me more focus on getting their development plan spot on to limit the potential that a poor personality, or - at least - a slower change to personality, doesn't impact them as much.

8 hours ago, Hootieleece said:

Have you tried retraining a player to be "natural" in another position. Even when he plays there every match and trains every day with Double Sessions it often takes the Whole Season.

A lot of this depends on those hidden attributes that mentoring does not impact. I like how it works, to be fair!

BillHoudini24 · February 11

Finally caught up with your thread Ben! Took me a week of slow reading, as I wanted to understand your thought process and how to get the most out of your skin.

I want to achieve something similar with you in the tactical department, but I play a Youth-Only save, which is even more frustrating as you can imagine.

I've tried 2 different combinations:

Var1 - Halfback drops deep to form a "3 at the back" shape, while the wing backs provide width.

This allows for more options in the attacking phase, but leaves me more vulnerable to crosses.

Spoiler

Var2 - IFB on the left creates the "3 at the back" shape, my midfield is more fluid/creative and the IWB is the "free role" player.

This was my preferred option for at least 4 seasons, but it is highly dependent on the IWB. If he plays well, everything ticks. Otherwise, we become way too predictable.

Spoiler

I don't know if my rumbling helps, but I think you're getting somewhere. It's tough to see exactly what you want in tactics, especially since you had a different approach in the previous FM editions.

Shrewnaldo · February 11

9 hours ago, Hootieleece said:

@Shrewnaldo

Training in general has been slowed down not just mentoring. Have you tried retraining a player to be "natural" in another position. Even when he plays there every match and trains every day with Double Sessions it often takes the Whole Season.

I think that it is just a little more realistic

@_Ben_

49 minutes ago, _Ben_ said:

I only tried it because I was having no success the other way - with multiple groups with one mentor in them. This one hasn't sped anything up really, either. It's giving me more focus on getting their development plan spot on to limit the potential that a poor personality, or - at least - a slower change to personality, doesn't impact them as much

I think I just find the inconsistency in the feature irritating and, like I say, that the squad influences outside of mentoring (squad culture or traits) can happen faster and completely randomly. The latter particularly irritates my need for control.

I tried your multiple tutor way, Ben, and it does appear to have had an impact (obviously no control against which I can test the impact). Will keep experimenting

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