Stop / Invite crosses and Trap In and Out

[wazza]

Looking for some advice, the way I understand Stop / Invite crosses is that it's the old defensive width instruction. Please correct me if I'm wrong!. I'm also led to believe that the trap inside and outside also affects the defensive width to a degree

What attributes do your players need to carry out both instructions.  Had a look for some old posts and you tube vids but couldnt find anything

Also, how does stop invite / crosses  work with trap inside/ outside as if you trap inside  wouldn't this reduce the width of your defense and a trap outside increase the width of your defense.

You could be reducing the width of your defence with the trap but then increasing it with the stop crosses instruction,  which conflicts so wondered how this works or are you not supposed to trap and stop invite crosses at the same time

 

 

 

 

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, wazza said:

Also, how does stop invite / crosses  work with trap inside/ outside as if you trap inside  wouldn't this reduce the width of your defense and a trap outside increase the width of your defense.

You could be reducing the width of your defence with the trap but then increasing it with the stop crosses instruction,  which conflicts so wondered how this works or are you not supposed to trap and stop invite crosses at the same time

They apply for different parts of the pitch. Stop / invite crosses applys in your defensive third while pressing traps apply in the middle and final third. So any combination can basicly work. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by CARRERA

[wazza]

14 hours ago, CARRERA said:

They apply for different parts of the pitch. Stop / invite crosses applys in your defensive third while pressing traps apply in the middle and final third. So any combination can basicly work. 

Thanks for the feedback - thats what I thought, but could not remember and wanted to double check which is why I was looking for some old posts.

[CARRERA]

1 hour ago, wazza said:

Thanks for the feedback - thats what I thought, but could not remember and wanted to double check which is why I was looking for some old posts.

I think they mentioned it in one of the blog posts for FM23 when these instructions were introduced, if I remember correctly.

 

[Rashidi]

Basically they kinda work together in setting a trap. They affect the whole team too.

When you use cross engagement like stop cross you will see your players on the flank adjust themselves going slightly wider to block lanes along the flanks. This makes it harder to create easy crossing chances. This is meant to encourage opposing sides to look elsewhere, like inside, and  this is how the traps then can work. So if you were to stop cross and trap inside your players will look to allow play to funnel inside where they can look to wait for triggers.

Trap inside will naturally then create counter attacking chances through the middle.

Say you were playing against a team that had wingers who were playing on the flank opposite their preferred foot, I would be wary about stop cross, since it could leave more space in the middle for them to attack. 
 

 

[nugatti]

On 28/10/2023 at 18:03, Rashidi said:

Basically they kinda work together in setting a trap. They affect the whole team too.

When you use cross engagement like stop cross you will see your players on the flank adjust themselves going slightly wider to block lanes along the flanks. This makes it harder to create easy crossing chances. This is meant to encourage opposing sides to look elsewhere, like inside, and  this is how the traps then can work. So if you were to stop cross and trap inside your players will look to allow play to funnel inside where they can look to wait for triggers.

Trap inside will naturally then create counter attacking chances through the middle.

Say you were playing against a team that had wingers who were playing on the flank opposite their preferred foot, I would be wary about stop cross, since it could leave more space in the middle for them to attack. 
 

 

Does this mean that selection normally should work better if you combine in a certain way?

Example:

With FBs with good skills for duels, is this a good combination? Make them run wide, then pounce on them when entering defensive third wide on the pitch. Also, what are the effects on midfielders and attackers?

Vice versa, with weaker FBs, trap inside and use strong ball winners as DM/CM?

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by nugatti

[Rashidi]

Cross engagement is about how your players position themselves, and pressing traps is about how your team funnels attacks. That is basically it. If you want to do what you are doing, then there will be space in central areas, players will be wider, opposition inside forwards can make runs inside, since the positioning is being affected by your Cross Engagement instruction.  What happens to your mids and attackers depends very much on the roles you have chosen. 

[nugatti]

5 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Cross engagement is about how your players position themselves, and pressing traps is about how your team funnels attacks. That is basically it. If you want to do what you are doing, then there will be space in central areas, players will be wider, opposition inside forwards can make runs inside, since the positioning is being affected by your Cross Engagement instruction.  What happens to your mids and attackers depends very much on the roles you have chosen. 

Then what would be the essential roles & skills for players to deploy the specific settings successfully as pointed at by wazza 1st post?

 

(My team has hard pressing WMs and FBs and good ball winners at CM)

Edited November 1, 2023 by nugatti

[robot_9x3]

@nugatti

I think one of the more important aspects for the cross Engagement is your central defenders jumping reach, compared to the oppositions strikers also your keepers aerial reach and command of area.
So if you play against 1. FC Cologne  who have Tigges and Selke two rather towering strikers upfront you either want to match them or try to stop anyone feeding them. That's obviously on you to decide.
If you want to stop crosses your Fullbacks should have good tackling as you're asking them to engage there and not lose. Other probably Acceleration, Pace and Agility to keep up with those pesky wingers. Probably other Attributes as well but listing all that might help is basically a what is needed to defend on the ground list...

Funneling for me at least is simply "where is my formation loaded with players" e.g. 442Diamond vs 442-Flat I want the opposition to play through the center as the diamond442 and I want them out of it and wide as the 442flat.

If there is no real advantage somewhere I often leave it on standard so neither.
You could check for mismatches though. Really good Fullback vs average Winger you want the opposition out wide to win the match up.
Your Def Mid is weak and they have a superb playmaker as a ten you might want to funnel play away from that match up.

Other since as stated your defensive width in different phases of play is affect you could opt for invite crosses & funnel out wide if your centerbacks are slow and you want to discourage any balls through the channels as much as possible.
Obviously if they have suberp crossers and a tower of a man with good heading in your box whom you can't match in the air you'll die that death.

That's footbal on defense, you try to decide which death to die if any hoping the opposition can't profit on what you give them.

[nugatti]

@robot_9x3 
Funneling for me at least is simply "where is my formation loaded with players" e.g. 442Diamond vs 442-Flat I want the opposition to play through the center as the diamond442 and I want them out of it and wide as the 442flat.

That's what I'm thinking as well in my example above. But as Rashidi explains, there will be gaps in CM, so not sure it will an advantage after all. At least not in every match

Edited November 1, 2023 by nugatti

[nugatti]

16 minutes ago, robot_9x3 said:

@nugatti

I think one of the more important aspects for the cross Engagement is your central defenders jumping reach, compared to the oppositions strikers also your keepers aerial reach and command of area.
So if you play against 1. FC Cologne  who have Tigges and Selke two rather towering strikers upfront you either want to match them or try to stop anyone feeding them. That's obviously on you to decide.
If you want to stop crosses your Fullbacks should have good tackling as you're asking them to engage there and not lose. Other probably Acceleration, Pace and Agility to keep up with those pesky wingers. Probably other Attributes as well but listing all that might help is basically a what is needed to defend on the ground list...

Funneling for me at least is simply "where is my formation loaded with players" e.g. 442Diamond vs 442-Flat I want the opposition to play through the center as the diamond442 and I want them out of it and wide as the 442flat.

If there is no real advantage somewhere I often leave it on standard so neither.
You could check for mismatches though. Really good Fullback vs average Winger you want the opposition out wide to win the match up.
Your Def Mid is weak and they have a superb playmaker as a ten you might want to funnel play away from that match up.

Other since as stated your defensive width in different phases of play is affect you could opt for invite crosses & funnel out wide if your centerbacks are slow and you want to discourage any balls through the channels as much as possible.
Obviously if they have suberp crossers and a tower of a man with good heading in your box whom you can't match in the air you'll die that death.

That's footbal on defense, you try to decide which death to die if any hoping the opposition can't profit on what you give them.

@wazza

[robot_9x3]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb nugatti:

That's what I'm thinking s well. But as Rashidi explains, there will be gaps in CM, so not sure it will an advantage after all. At least not in every match

There will be yes if you funnel into the middle that's the basic idea lure them there so your trap can spring an win back the ball.
The players position themselves to encourage the opposition to play into the middle which for one means the cms to block passing lanes out wide opening lanes into the middle. The idea behind that is to apply pressure there if you have more men in the center you should win the ball at some point, because you outnumber the opposition and can hassle them down until you have the ball. Obviously it's not always fool proof.
With a diamond you'll still have a DM or Central-CM to cover the center, and against a flat 442 you should have a idealy 4vs2 if none of the four is able to win the ball or force a bad pass that's not an issue with the idea but with the execution (so the Players, if they all can't tackle or position themselves to force a mistake there is not much you can do other than bring in better suited players).
Same with stop/invite crosses you'll leave space somewhere which can be exploited the idea being you deem that space less impact full for the opposition.

[Rashidi]

Like the others have said, it depends on a lot of factors. There is no such thing as the best setting. When in doubt I will always suggest don’t pick these options. All instructions in the game are situationally good against different setups and it requires experimentation and learning

Let’s say I was playing a 433 with attacking wingers and an AF. In defence I could opt for an NCD\BPD combo and a DLP in front. If I see a team with IFs coming against me and I have great defenders I might invite the cross and trap outside, knowing I will draw their fullbacks higher exposing their flanks. 
 

From this point onwards there will be a lot of “ifs”. If I can force them wide, will they change roles? if I can win the headers can I launch direct counters? If my defenders don’t concede corners am I safe? If I concede corners then I have set pieces to contend with it. Is it worth the risk?

Situationally it could be great if the team isn’t that good. It’s a feature of the game that can be very good to use, but you need to be constantly paying attention to any change in role duty or formation. 
 

These instructions help you funnel the play, you could for example create a system that’s a mid block, inviting crosses and trapping outside in the hope that your wingers can race off and hit on the counter. It’s a great way to play but if the AI swaps to a 325 in attack you could be overwhelmed. You will need experience using this, and I don’t recommend people use this if they have to ask what roles are good with different cross engagement strategies.  It is great for those who enjoy comprehensive highlights, evil for those who play on key highlights and absolutely the worst option for people who don’t know how mentality shifts the 6 main settings in the game.

[Domoboy23]

So does Trap Outside and Invite Crosses make sense for a side looking to defend low and which has confidence in their CB aerial Prescence 

[Fritz13]

On 01/11/2023 at 19:09, Rashidi said:

Like the others have said, it depends on a lot of factors. There is no such thing as the best setting. When in doubt I will always suggest don’t pick these options. All instructions in the game are situationally good against different setups and it requires experimentation and learning

Let’s say I was playing a 433 with attacking wingers and an AF. In defence I could opt for an NCD\BPD combo and a DLP in front. If I see a team with IFs coming against me and I have great defenders I might invite the cross and trap outside, knowing I will draw their fullbacks higher exposing their flanks. 
 

From this point onwards there will be a lot of “ifs”. If I can force them wide, will they change roles? if I can win the headers can I launch direct counters? If my defenders don’t concede corners am I safe? If I concede corners then I have set pieces to contend with it. Is it worth the risk?

Situationally it could be great if the team isn’t that good. It’s a feature of the game that can be very good to use, but you need to be constantly paying attention to any change in role duty or formation. 
 

These instructions help you funnel the play, you could for example create a system that’s a mid block, inviting crosses and trapping outside in the hope that your wingers can race off and hit on the counter. It’s a great way to play but if the AI swaps to a 325 in attack you could be overwhelmed. You will need experience using this, and I don’t recommend people use this if they have to ask what roles are good with different cross engagement strategies.  It is great for those who enjoy comprehensive highlights, evil for those who play on key highlights and absolutely the worst option for people who don’t know how mentality shifts the 6 main settings in the game.

Think you might do a video about this @Rashidi?

[Aoyao]

6 hours ago, Fritz13 said:

Think you might do a video about this @Rashidi?

Good advice