[FM24] The Traipsing of the Shrew

[Muttley84]

7 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Thoughts

I would stay, and try to build for promotion playoffs. But most of times I have one-club careers. If you are to jump to Serie A, at least make it for a club fighting for Europe, not relegation.

[Shrewnaldo]

9 minutes ago, Muttley84 said:

I would stay, and try to build for promotion playoffs. But most of times I have one-club careers. If you are to jump to Serie A, at least make it for a club fighting for Europe, not relegation.

I get what you're saying but there aren't many Italian clubs that I'd want to join. Other than Parma, I would probably consider Fiorentina and Roma. Fiorentina's board wants high-tempo pressing football, which is against Toporagno's instincts, and Roma are probably just a bit too big for my preferred type of game - maybe right at the end of a career but not now. Having said that, Parma's board wants possession football and to develop youth players... also not Toporagno's style... hmm....

[Lestri]

Probably the biggest issue I had with playing in the Italian leagues was the only way out of not going broke was promotions. I'd say Parma. Great history and narrative of a fallen giant which I think will go nicely with your save objectives.

[Matty Aqua]

I think it might be worth continuing with FeralpiSalo, the long-term challenge is there!

[Matty Aqua]

Ultimately it's whatever you find enjoyable to play, if you think it's time for change then go for it!

[SteinkelssonFM]

One more stab at promotion (if you don't secure it via the backdoor). I quite like the realism of the save, given a significant amount of clubs in Italy have serious financial problems.

Did you see the article on Inter the other day, they are making significant losses year on year! We aren't talking pennies. 

[Lasson]

I'd give it one more go for promotion before looking elsewhere and hopefully one of your desired destinations will be available at that time. I think you'll be able to grind out the promotion next season.

[Shrewnaldo]

Thanks for the input @Lestri @Matty Aqua @MattyLewis11 @Lasson

 

I've decided to stick with FeralpiSalò. My contract runs until the end of next season and I'm going to give it until then to get promotion. I think there's a good, realistic story to tell that, should we not go up by May 2027, Toporagno would be keen to move on. Having come in to a club that was rock-bottom in Serie B, rescue them in the first season and then create a team that challenges at least a playoff position but is hamstrung by financial matters beyond his control, it seems entirely logical that an ambitious manager would take that opportunity to go elsewhere.

Teams such as Parma are already coming offering interviews, so I think we should be able to get something decent if we somehow manage to eek out another solid campaign despite the ever-decreasing wage budget.

I also like the idea of seeing out my contract rather than leaving mid-way through. It'd feed into the sort of old-school, no-nonsense, "stand by my word" sort of manager I imagine Toporagno being.

[Shrewnaldo]

One more season of Serie B

Leoni del Garda - FeralpiSalò

Come what may, Naldo Toporagno is (hopefully) heading into his last season in Serie B. Having decided to stay with the Lions of Garda, we made our way all the way to the playoff final - limping through the final league games before absolutely battering local rivals Brescia in the semi-final. Sadly Cagliari, relegated the previous season and still undoubtedly of Serie A quality, were just too good for us in the two-legged final. A 1-1 home draw gave us hope before we were comprehensively outclassed in the return game.

Still, we are progressing season-on-season. 

We'll face *another* cut to our wage budget this summer - taking us from £130k a week when I first started the save, to £84k a week despite three consecutive Serie B seasons and the tantalising prospect of promotion. That cut is going to force out a handful of our highest earners - most notably Eklu Shaka Mawuli and Alessio da Cruz, both of whom I considered selling last season. With 36 and 25 starts respectively, that's quite the gap to fill.

Wahbi Khazri joins them out the door but, in truth, he'll be no loss whatsoever. An impulse signing on a free, he was the only "miss" of our 8 signings last summer.

We couldn't spend anything last year and we won't be able to spend any this. So it'll be more of the same. Literally in the case of Adam Bakoune who we have managed to keep on loan for another season. Sadly, Youssef Chermiti will return to Merseyside and leave the biggest gap - 21 goals and 5 assists in 34 starts is outstanding for our level and he led the line beautifully. Targetting similar loans, I've been sending my scouts out to get team reports of B teams and unders sides... but finding the sweet spot of talent and affordability is becoming increasingly difficult.

The mooted takeovers never arrive and, with literally zero transfer budget, it looks like I'm going to need to sell someone just to get some funds for free transfers' signing-on fees. In case that never happens, I've asked the board to find me a senior affiliate that can give us some free loans... so fingers crossed.

As it stands, I'm going into next season with a squad of 14 players - including one loanee. Those 14 will absorb £40,415 a week of my £84,000 per week budget - the one ray of hope that I might be able to cobble together some sort of squad that can continue our progression and take that final step into Serie A.

If not, Senor Toporagno will see out the final days of his contract and say ciao to the bonny banks of Lake Garda. My own patience for the struggle has worn thin, so I can imagine that a real manager facing three and a half seasons of this will start to look favourably on the offers coming his way from far richer clubs.

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more... can our final effort get FeralpiSalò to the big time?

Forza Feralpi!

[keeper#1]

Have you thought about robbing a couple of banks to get the money you need?  

[Shrewnaldo]

10 hours ago, keeper#1 said:

Have you thought about robbing a couple of banks to get the money you need?  

The FM - GTA6 crossover mod

[keeper#1]

7 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

The FM - GTA6 crossover mod

The Italian Job mod.

[_Ben_]

Who came down from Serie A last season? I'm guessing that they'll be your biggest challengers for promotion! However, you're doing wonders on (less than) a shoestring! 

[Shrewnaldo]

4 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Who came down from Serie A last season? I'm guessing that they'll be your biggest challengers for promotion! However, you're doing wonders on (less than) a shoestring! 

Empoli, Parma and Torino came down. To give you an idea of the quality we're then up against, Parma have Arkadiusz Milik up front... Torino, meanwhile, have Raoul Bellanova, Malacia, Hannibal, Vlasic, John McGinn, Antonio Nusa, Antoine Semenyo, Pietro Pellegri, Josh Cullen and Brian Ocampo. Their centre back Jordan Beyer, or Burnley fame, is paid £66,000 a week. That's 80% of what my entire squad gets paid.

I strongly suspect that Toporagno will be leaving Salò come the end of the season.

[higgins]

13 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Empoli, Parma and Torino came down. To give you an idea of the quality we're then up against, Parma have Arkadiusz Milik up front... Torino, meanwhile, have Raoul Bellanova, Malacia, Hannibal, Vlasic, John McGinn, Antonio Nusa, Antoine Semenyo, Pietro Pellegri, Josh Cullen and Brian Ocampo. Their centre back Jordan Beyer, or Burnley fame, is paid £66,000 a week. That's 80% of what my entire squad gets paid.

I strongly suspect that Toporagno will be leaving Salò come the end of the season.

The fact you're having troubles to reach promotion to Serie A with a club like Feralpi Salò is quite realistic, I'm still unsure if we prefer realism or fun in this game. 

[Shrewnaldo]

29 minutes ago, higgins said:

The fact you're having troubles to reach promotion to Serie A with a club like Feralpi Salò is quite realistic, I'm still unsure if we prefer realism or fun in this game. 

100% fair comment. I would prefer to err on the side of realism. I'm not sure how realistic the money troubles are... I guess FeralpiSalò are naturally a Serie C level team so it's always going to be a struggle in Serie B, nevermind Serie A. All of which is leading me into the decision to leave come the end of the season. Having built up his rep by overperforming with a small side, it feels realistic that Toporagno would look to pick up a job with a bottom-half Serie A team, or perhaps further afield.

[Chris_ANZFM]

On 14/11/2023 at 11:21, Shrewnaldo said:

So it looks like this is a wider FM24 bug. I thought our terrible defending was because our players were terrible... turns out the match engine is churning out quite ridiculous numbers of goals just now. People might think I'm being over-dramatic about this but the more I look at this the more game-breaking it feels. The immersion has just completely broken. It's like the glass-smashing moment in How I Met Your Mother. Going to sleep on it and see how I feel tomorrow but might just put this on hold until it's patched.

I’ve not read the rest of the thread yet, I will do momentarily, but the HIMYM reference demanded I stop and acknowledge it. 😍

[Shrewnaldo]

Will we be good enough?

Leoni del Garda - FeralpiSalò

It was a *really* difficult summer window. We needed a lot of players and had no money. Indeed, we needed to sell just so we could afford some signing on fees. In the end we brought in a little over £600k and spent... nothing whilst bringing in no fewer than 12 players. That's way more than I'd usually be comfortable with and I think has led to some early season lack of cohesion. Beggars, though, can't be choosers - something I found out to my detriment when most of the players that I wanted to choose went elsewhere, and I was left begging for scraps.

Brackelmann and Cabraja were two of our starting defence last year, the former being one of our best players. With a third member of the back four (34 year old Filippo Scaglia) released, three-quarters of our starting back-line are new players. Hungarian international Ákos Kesckés is the only one on a permanent deal, with Milan's Adam Bakoune, Cagliari's Juan Gutiérrez and Palermo's Giuseppe Aurelio all on season-long loans.

I ended up going for a few loans, considering that if the players I can get won't be good enough for the squad in Serie A then there's no point. Where this proved the biggest problem was at 9. Everton simply refused to let the excellent Chermiti come back for another season on loan, instead sending him back to Portugal for a free season at Moreirense. I couldn't find anyone of the same quality - either on loan or a free. Udinese's Vivaldo Semedo is fine, but the primary starter will probably be Kristian Fucak.

I'd liked his stats in 2024/25 whilst at Osijek and had tried to get him on loan but he'd gone to Bravo in Slovenia instead. Again his numbers were good but what I really liked was the option to play a 6'4" aerially dominant option on the left-flank. With Juve's newgen Fabio Bottone providing a 6'2" option on the opposite flank, it's something we're committing too. It also fits in nicely with the general switch to using two holding DMs and letting the wing-backs come forward to provide the width. Without a quality 9 that can contribute 20-25 goals, I'm instead hoping the front three can get 12-16 each.

So far it's going well. Fucak has 5 in 7 starts, Bottone 4 in 9 and Quina 2 in 11 - with the alternative 9, 6'6" Norwegian Kristoffersen chipping in with 3 in 3. 

But I think that 5th spot is going to be about our level. The three we've lost were 3-0 at Torino, 2-1 at Frosinone and 2-0 at Sampdoria. All teams above us and, in truth, we were completely outclassed in all three. We've then slipped up in two other games - a 1-1 draw in Modena and a horrible 3-3 home draw against Juve Stabia. The minnows scored with 3 of their 5 efforts, including a penalty. If we want to challenge for promotion, we can't afford many slips like this.

But whilst we're no longer the team with the lowest total salary in the league, there's still an order of magnitude between us and the teams we're trying to compete against. Torino's squad is, quite frankly, ridiculous for this level and I would be amazed if they don't walk the league. That leaves one automatic promotion spot which I'd expect to go to Samp who have made some excellent moves, particularly Brazilian striker Kaio Jorge.

I'd expect us to be there and thereabouts in the playoffs. If and when we get there, I'd be worried about Parma, Frosinone and Empoli simply due to the quality at their disposal. Sydney van Hooijdonk is doing a good job of carrying Benevento up the league but they don't have much else outside of their solid defence and I'd expect them to drop back a bit.

In truth, I'm keeping one eye on the jobs market already and wondering what sort of job I'll be able to get if I'm off come the end of the season. A lower Serie A side seems reasonable, or perhaps a solid team in some of the Eastern European leagues that I have loaded? Serbia or Slovenia maybe? What do you reckon - what sort of level do you think I should be looking at?

Forza Feralpi!

[Chris_ANZFM]

Just now caught up on everything. 
 

First up, thanks for taking the time to delve into and explain the spreadsheet process. Something that I’ll definitely return to in future. Even just for the fun of creating the sheet.

As for the save though. I am very glad you came back to it despite the bug. This has been a tremendous journey so far. The financial issues really fascinated me as I’ve just started to encounter the same types of cuts in my own save (Czech Republic).

Can’t argue that you haven’t put up a hell of a fight here and like you have acknowledged the club is probably punching above its weight just by being in Serie B never mind gunning for promotion. 
 

You’ve earned your move Sir Shrew. Enjoy it when it comes. 

[Shrewnaldo]

We started great but, slowly, it's all unravelling.

In the past 5 games we've conceded 3 penalties - twice against direct rivals for playoff positions. Our form is rancid and only the dire form of everyone else has prevented us falling any further than 6th. But we're just 2 points above 9th spot - the first non-playoff position. 

Ideally, we'd bring in a couple of new faces to freshen it up - particularly a striker as, predictably, we're struggling up top without Chermiti. But we all know why we can't bring anyone else in so I'll just have to put faith in the improving form of loan striker Vivaldo Semedo. We also might need to freshen it up tactically a bit, otherwise this sort of stagnation is going to see a rather underwhelming end to the Toporagno era at FeralpiSalò

[Shrewnaldo]

Not good enough

Leoni del Garda - FeralpiSalò

We said we'd give it one more shot and, whilst it started well, we really fell away come the end of the season. In truth, the lack of squad depth absolutely killed us. Our first XI could compete with everyone outside Torino but, whether off the bench or covering suspension and injury, the second string was just far too much of a drop.

We managed to hold on to the last playoff spot - putting us into a single leg shootout at Pisa. We had a terrible record against the Nerazzurri but dominated the 90 minutes and should have been more than one up when that lack of depth cost us a 92nd minute equaliser. Pisa then had the better of extra time despite neither team being able to score. By virtue of the Italian rule that the highest rank side wins after extra time, we were then defeated.

And so we're left with a choice. Stay or leave?

8 loan players will be leaving, as well as three first teamers out of contract and likely at least two more who we will have to sell. That would leave me with a squad of 12 and needing to start again. Again.

The mooted takeovers have collapsed three times this season. Again.

The board has cut our wage budget. Again.

We have literally no transfer budget. Again.

Yet there's a small part of me that wants to do it. Perhaps switch away from the direct, counter game and go with something a little more in line with my usual preferences... 

If we were to leave then I think I'd need to self-manage where we go next. My experience is that FM offers you up unrealistically good jobs far too early in your career. I think if we were to move on having over-achieved in Serie B then I'd be looking for something in the bottom half of Serie A. Perhaps something like Hellas Verona - geographically close to Salò too, bringing with it some realism there.

If not, then perhaps something top-tier mid-table in Switzerland, Austria, Czechia or Slovenia? I don't want to take a step down in budget - I think it'd be realistic to look for a personal wage rise, as well as a bump in the financial muscle of the club I'm looking to take over.

Any and all thoughts welcome.

Forza Feralpi?

[Lestri]

Time to leave! You deserve better

[BML]

It feels like the constant board cuts are going to make it harder and harder to compete, regardless of what style you use for your team, so I'd say leave and see what's around.

As for destination? Lower Serie A would be realistic based on overachievement in Serie B, as would something in Switzerland - which would offer a realistic stepping stone into Germany or France (or a tube to North London).

As you've already said there are only a few other Italian teams you'd consider, something mid-tabley Swiss would get my vote.

[Shrewnaldo]

👀

 

Going to need a new name for the thread.

[Shrewnaldo]

From Lions to Dogs

I Mastini - Hellas Verona

So perhaps it didn't work out quite as planned at FeralpiSalò. After three full seasons at Leoni del Garda brought clear over-performance with the cash-strapped club and we came so, so close to promotion in 2025/26 - losing in that playoff final to a far superior Cagliari side. 2026/27 was undoubtedly a season of regression, however. The defence might have improved but, without a quality 9, we were always going to struggle to replicate the previous campaign.

Around Christmas, it was clear to me that we weren't good enough for promotion and I rather 'dialled it in' for the second half of the season. I've kept a save file in case I decide that should give Feralpi another shot but it felt like a clear decision for me to leave. What eventually sold it for me was the likelihood of the Hellas Verona job. I know very little about the club (and don't like the sounds of some of the fan base), but Verona is just 40-odd miles down the road from Salò - a trip I have literally taken myself on a pre-child holiday in Italy with Mrs Naldo.

Whilst FM tends to offer you up unrealistic early job opportunities at bigger clubs, I feel like Hellas would be aware of an over-performing up-and-coming manager at a Serie B club just down the road. Having finished 14th in Serie A last season, and typically being a club that bounces between the two top tiers, it just feels like the right sort of step up in a realistic career.

Changing club also provides me with the opportunity to implement a skin with graphical attributes. One wasn't available at the start of my save and it felt a little odd to introduce it halfway through... plus I was loving Rensie's skin. There's a good choice of graphical attribute skins these days and they're all brilliant. I've decided to go with Sebastian's Stars / Non-numeric attributes skin. Just my preference for skins which improve, rather than revolutionise, the base skin.

After three and a half seasons of being, literally, penniless this is a quite ridiculous amount of money. I've also managed to take charge just in time to have last season's statistics and Data Hub available to analyse the squad. (It also means the current spend includes players who are likely to leave the club over the summer)

A proper analysis will have to wait until I have more time and preferably when I'm not suffering from some ridiculous cold. What I will say now, though, is that the players I've identified as key components of the existing squad are not aligned with the Leoni del Garda style of play. Only two of them are over six foot, for a start, and I think a transition away from the low-block counter game might be inevitable. At least in the short-term. There are also a handful of obvious gaps to fill - at right back where the incumbent is a loanee, and in wide areas due to the previous régime's preference for a narrow diamond.

This means I'll be back out with my spreadsheets and, for a chance, won't be restricted to free transfers. Instead, I'll be looking for value - £3.3m might be a lot to me but it's not going to buy many Serie A players. So it could bring back a return to the original recruitment focus - specifically identifying Romania as a market to exploit.

So no more Forza Feralpi but I'm definitely not saying Forza Hellas. Veterans of The Dugout will understand.

[lfds89]

Em 06/12/2023 em 21:29, Shrewnaldo disse:

From Lions to Dogs

Sorry, but I couldn't help having the sound in my head: "Dags... Do you like dags?" 

Good luck with the new challenge!

[Shrewnaldo]

On 08/12/2023 at 22:30, lfds89 said:

Sorry, but I couldn't help having the sound in my head: "Dags... Do you like dags?" 

Good luck with the new challenge!

Afraid that is another cultural reference that would have gone way over my head so thanks for the link 😁

[lfds89]

16 horas atrás, Shrewnaldo disse:

Afraid that is another cultural reference that would have gone way over my head so thanks for the link 😁

You should see the movie. It's brilliant (IMO)

[Shrewnaldo]

Different league, same identity?

I Mastini - Hellas Verona

The premise, when this thread started as a FeralpiSalò save, was to mould the club into an identity matching the club's nickname - Leoni del Garda. A low-block, counter-attacking system with a physical, aggressive squad. From the feline FeralpiSalò, we've moved to the canine Hellas - nicknamed I Mastini or The Mastiffs. Rather oddly, the moniker seems to have evolved from an initial reference to Mastino I della Scala - the founder of a Veronese ruling family in the 13th and 14th centuries. Regardless, the nickname is, similar to Feralpi, embedded into the club's identifty and logo.

So whilst my initial analysis of the squad was that it wouldn't immediately fit into the direct style I used in Salò, I've decided that I'll definitely take aspects of that game to the Marcantanio Bentegodi. Recruitment will prioritise physicals - size and strength through the middle, pace out wide; whilst we will still prioritise counter-attacking as a key facet of our game. Rather than the longer ball game we used at Feralpi, based around a target forward 9 bringing others into the game around him, we've arrived in Verona to find 5'10" Pablo Rodríguez first-choice up front. The Spaniard is lightning quick with the Likes to Try to Beat the Offside Trap trait. So we'll adapt in an effort to exploit this opportunity.

So not exactly the same but definitely within the same principles - and that's a theme I'm trying to stick to. Whenever I've been faced with one of these choices in the save, then I'm trying, where at all possible, to commit to the premise that was originally set out. Hellas thought they were buying a counter-attacking manager, after all - so that's what they'll get.

And I've also taken the same recruitment strategy to Serie A.

We've moved on a handful of players whose wages were exceeding their likely playing time - specifically Neyou, Ounas and Zinckernagel. Coming in, we identified the obvious weak areas of right back and wings. For the former, we picked up a player that we knew well from our time at FeralpiSalò. 6'5" Adam Bakoune was excellent whilst on loan from Milan with 16 assists over the last two seasons.

Our scouts and coaches reckon he's not quite Serie A material yet but he absolutely embodies the prioritisation of physicals. Bakoune can also operate as both an over-lapping wingback and an inverted option, giving me flexibility further forward too. This, too, suits the inherited squad with first-choice left-back Jordan Zemura an out-an-out wingback and academy newgen Alexander Barbaro an interesting prospect as a genuine winger.

To supplement these options, Joel Mvuka is a one-dimensional speed merchant on the right and Landry a graduate from La Masía that can cover for Bakoune at right-back and, at 6'2", cover centrally too.

The biggest outlay is, by some distance, Emanuel Vignato. The Brazilian / Italian came through the academy at now-defunct city-rivals Chievo and always impressed us in Serie B when we played against Pisa. In the last three campaigns, he had 18, 16 and 17 goal contributions in the league alone. And he quickly became target number one when he topped the 'Creative Rank' from the data I extracted at the end of last season.

This calculates a score based on existing stats like Dribbles per 90 or xA per 90, and normalises them for aggregating with other statistics. Some of those stats I've pulled together myself - goal contributions per 90 being a pretty straightforward one (goals per 90 + assists per 90, as a percentage of team goals per 90). This helps me spot players that are performing well in poor sides.

Similarly, I've tried to find players who turn limited possession into chances regularly but whose nominal numbers are lower than players who play in dominant sides that get on the ball more often. To do this, I just divided the chances created, or expected assists, by the number of passes per 90 - which then indicates how many passes it takes each player to produce one expected assist. The fewer, the more creative that player is - yes, this comes with some caveats but this is the sort of player I'm looking for: one who can turn limited possession into regular output.

Taking all these stats into account, Vignato topped the entire database. Beating Neymar, Harry Kane and João Félix to top spot. So whilst my scouts weren't 100% convinced, I again decided to commit to the premise of the save and shelled out the big bucks (relatively speaking) to bring him in.

So it's speed out wide, strength through the middle and the prioritisation of counters - although more "fluid counter attack" than "direct counter attack" in FM parlance. 

Sadly, our reign has started inauspiciously with a defeat to Serie B SPAL in the cup.

Defeat but with clear signs that we're on the right track I think. We dominated the xG, particularly once you take out that injury time penalty for SPAL, and really should have put the game to bed in normal time. Vignato came off the bench to grab a silky debut goal, selling a lovely dummy to the defender on the edge of the box before powering past and finishing across the 'keeper on his weaker foot. So I'm not entirely unhappy with our first outing as Hellas boss.

The board expect us to " become an established Serie A team" and I'm feeling relatively confident that we'll be able to finish 12th to 15th, providing a full season of getting to know the squad and then moulding it further into the physical, aggressive outfit that I want. The only cloud on the horizon is a familiar old friend... the bank balance. Despite now playing at a proper stadium and having a proper wage budget to utilise, we're already £9m in debt and are projected to be £36m in the red come the end of the season... so that's a bit concerning.

First things first, though. Matters on the pitch.

[Shrewnaldo]

By the way, I need a new thread title. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

Having moved club once, I do intend to move again in the future. So maybe something journeyman or career related. Anything really.

[Shrewnaldo]

We need to talk about Pablo

I Mastini - Hellas Verona

10 games in and I'm loving it in Verona. Sometimes you switch clubs in Football Manager and it just doesn't "land", particularly if you've been used to a winning feeling at the old team and have stepped into a struggling team. We're not exactly struggling at Hellas but it's fair to say we've not had things all our own way. Despite, or perhaps because of, that I'm really enjoying it so far.

Whilst we're taking the counter-attacking principles with us, it's been different enough that I've a number of tactical issues to work out. We're also playing some really attractive football which always makes the game more fun. Regardless, 10 games in, there are a couple of issues so I thought I'd ramble and, taking a look back at the league matches so far, see if I can figure it out.

In the words of Gennaro Gattuso, sometimes good, sometimes sh.... not good. But looking at the opponents, neither the impressive start nor the sticky patch are entirely surprising. Atalanta away isn't the easiest start to the season but I'd have been pretty worried if we hadn't picked up decent points against Lecce, Bologna and Spezia. Similarly, losing to Roma, Inter and Fiorentina is hardly catastrophic whilst draws with Juve and Lazio were very pleasing. The one result which might raise an eyebrow is that loss at Cremonese.

We've been alternating between a 4-3-3 and a flatter 4-1-4-1, looking to play this more fluid counter-attacking system based on quick short passing and running a at the opposition more often. So what's the problem?

Well one issue is that I'd started looking to use Pablo Rodriguez, last season's top scorer at Hellas with a non-insignificant 16, as the 'Jamie Vardy' to our counter-attacking system - constantly looking to get in behind and use his pace to create shooting opportunities. This did not work. Not one bit. In Pablo's last four games as an AF, he mustered a grand total of zero shots. Nil. This despite us winning two of those games and scoring five goals.

I'd also been looking to use new signing Emanuel Vignato as the primary creator - defending from the left and then trying to get him into a more central area, somewhere akin to a wide 10, from which to pull the strings. Similarly, this just didn't work. As I complained on twitter, wide players just stay far too wide for me.

Here, Vignato is ringed in blue. I want him to be using that highlighted space inside. Instead, as an inverted winger from ML, he stays very wide and waits for the ball. Only once he receives the ball or we are established with possession in the final third, does he look to come inside. As a team that's looking to break from the middle third quickly, I want him to be looking for the ball between the lines and vacating the wide area for the onrushing left-back. This is an issue I've had with wide players' positioning in FM for years and is another example of my frustration at having to find the least-worst of the preset selections available.

So we switched things up. The creator role moved from the left to the centre, introducing a false nine that drops off the line to link the play, run at the defence and play through balls. With his 9 slot occupied, Pablo Rodriguez moved to the vacated left wing role to become an inside forward - the idea being that he'd use the aforementioned pace to run onto those through balls. Did this solve our problems?

No. No, it didn't.

Or rather, it didn't solve all of them. The false 9 role is perfect and is doing exactly what I want. I love the whole "collapsing centre" approach, pulling the defenders forward to create the space in behind. But Pablo, despite having all the requisite attributes, has struggled. Ok, it was against Inter and Fiorentina but I'm looking for more than one shot a game from a player I expect to be one of our top scorers. But then Vignato suffered a thigh strain and Pablo was forced to deputise as the false nine - a role at which my assistant deems him completely (half a star) unsuited.

Hmmm... two goals against Lazio. Unsurprisingly he was so much more involved in the game as a false nine (on the left) than as an advanced forward (on the right) - but the key for me is how much more advanced his involvement was as the former. A one-off? Perhaps. He'll have another couple of games to prove himself as the false nine before Vignato returns from injury and let us find out for sure.

The second problem is at the back. Ok, we've faced 6 of the top 8 clubs, but conceding 1.6 goals a game from 1.47xGA/90 is more than I am comfortable with. What's particularly noticeable is how many early goals we concede. 6 of those 16 (37/5%) have been conceded in the first 10 minutes of matches.

Roma scored in the 4th and 8th minutes, Juve in the 7th, Inter and Fiorentina both scored in the 3rd minute and Lazio scored in the 8th. Why? I don't believe it's a coincidence that we've conceded 6 early goals in the last 5 matches, but I'm at a loss to explain it.

Is it a team-talk problem? A mental attributes issue? Concentration doesn't appear to be an issue. Any ideas are gratefully received.

We're already starting games in a 'Cautious' mentality. I'm loathe to start Defensive and invite any more early pressure. Perhaps the opposite would be better - look to keep the ball early and settle into a bit of confidence before then dropping back into the counter game?

We're also making far too many mistakes. In 10 games, we've had 5 "goal mistakes" from our defenders. It's hard to tell if these are linked to the 6 early goals - unfortunately SI removed the 'mistakes' tab from the game analysis in FM22. All goals look like defensive mistakes to me but, without the commentary clue, it's hard to be sure if the game records it as such.

Regardless, we can't be too disappointed with that after 10 games. To take us to the halfway point, we have a generally gentler set of fixtures. We have only Milan and Napoli left to play from the big sides and I'll be expecting maybe 15-18 points from the other games to take us to 28-ish. That'd be a great return for my first season in Serie A, with 50 my overall season target.

Let's just hope we don't keep giving the opposition a head-start with these early goals.

[-Jef-]

Do you use stay narrow PI on your inverted winger to force him to stay a bit narrower?

[Shrewnaldo]

4 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

Do you use stay narrow PI on your inverted winger to force him to stay a bit narrower?

Hi, I do indeed. Vignato also has the "cuts inside from both wings" player trait.

Unfortunately this is a problem I have with almost all wide roles in Football Manager. Only the AP from AML/R ever gets the pre-pass movement that I want from the player - and even then it isn't exactly what I want. I'd basically like the player to defend at ML then play as an AMCL AP(S) when we're in possession.

[_Ben_]

I really like the narrative behind this -  a manager has been rewarded with a step up after sticking to his guns and overachieving for a few years. I’d like it very much if Verona had appointed you based on your style but that seems to be an area that’s not quite perfect within the game yet. It’ll be interesting to see whether they view this as a ‘risk’ - affording you less budgets and time or whether they’ve (rightly - you’re a great manager), given you free reign.

I also really feel your pain with wingers who don’t complete their defensive duties! 

[-Jef-]

9 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Hi, I do indeed. Vignato also has the "cuts inside from both wings" player trait.

Unfortunately this is a problem I have with almost all wide roles in Football Manager. Only the AP from AML/R ever gets the pre-pass movement that I want from the player - and even then it isn't exactly what I want. I'd basically like the player to defend at ML then play as an AMCL AP(S) when we're in possession.

Can you post your tactic if you'd like some help? I've no problem getting my wingers in the game in my save. If you've set the width wide IF/IW gonna stay extra wide during two thirds of an attack and only in final third, last 30 meters from opponents goal, will he move into space. AP and trequartista have hard coded movements to drop deeper and roam more. And whilst AP-S will help a lot defensively, trequartista needs a lot of help defensively and is definitely a luxury role reserved for out of the world (relatively) players.

 

Sorry if it's a bit detracting from the story and all but tactics are most interesting part for me

 

Enjoying the journey so far

Edited December 13, 2023 by -Jef-

[Shrewnaldo]

12 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

I really like the narrative behind this -  a manager has been rewarded with a step up after sticking to his guns and overachieving for a few years. I’d like it very much if Verona had appointed you based on your style but that seems to be an area that’s not quite perfect within the game yet. It’ll be interesting to see whether they view this as a ‘risk’ - affording you less budgets and time or whether they’ve (rightly - you’re a great manager), given you free reign.

I also really feel your pain with wingers who don’t complete their defensive duties! 

I've no real problem with the defensive cover at the moment, more just the in-possession starting positions.

Agree entirely on the narrative - I like sticking to this as much as possible. Helps to make the save memorable as well I think. You must find the same thing with your regional careers making each game unique.

12 hours ago, -Jef- said:

Can you post your tactic if you'd like some help? I've no problem getting my wingers in the game in my save. If you've set the width wide IF/IW gonna stay extra wide during two thirds of an attack and only in final third, last 30 meters from opponents goal, will he move into space. AP and trequartista have hard coded movements to drop deeper and roam more. And whilst AP-S will help a lot defensively, trequartista needs a lot of help defensively and is definitely a luxury role reserved for out of the world (relatively) players.

Sorry if it's a bit detracting from the story and all but tactics are most interesting part for me

Enjoying the journey so far

No problem at all with detracting from anything. This is the basic starting set-up for the 4-1-4-1. But I'm not really looking for help, I was just complaining about the way the wide players are coded. It's been like this for years and I just find it very frustrating

I tweak quite a lot but this is the basic starting point. Eventually, I'd like to have the left back become another inverted wingback, switching the left side to become a winger and then releasing the MCL as another runner.

[Shrewnaldo]

I Mastini - Hellas Verona

When I started this thread with Feralpi, I wanted to commit to a defence-first strategy with the prioritisation of clean sheets - not least because, statistically, a clean sheet is worth an average of 2.4 points. Whilst the bugged match engine meant this was not initially possible with Feralpi, I've embraced that notion whole-heartedly at Hellas. And the value is clear, with 11 clean sheets in 26 games bringing us a very healthy 10th spot and an outside chance of European football next season.

Incidentally, those 11 clean sheets have brought us 27 of our 39 points - an average of 2.45... I absolutely love that it's trending accurately.

It could, perhaps should, be more though. Three 0-0s against at home to Atalanta, Cremonese and Spezia could easily have been turned into wins, whilst a 94th minute winner for Juve cost us a creditable point. Maybe 5 more points from those games would put us right on the heels of the European spots. With the Coppa likely to be won by Inter, Juve or Milan it means that 7th spot will take the last Europa Conference League place... something I'd love to target.

Those three 0-0s, particularly the two against Cremonese and Spezia, look likely to come back to haunt us. And it's that lack of firepower which is the next task tactically. The defence has been superb. In the 17 games since we've committed to working out the 4-1-4-1, we've averaged just 0.87 xGA - with the opposition only exceeding 1xG in four games: the first against Lazio, Napoli away, Bologna away when we were down to 10 men for 70 minutes and Juventus. I can't complain about that at all.

Clearly the issues are at the other end where we've taken just 8.8 shots per game and averaged 1.23 xG per 90. I like that this gives us a decent 0.14 xG/shot - again coming back to the original premise of the save, I was looking to create high-value opportunities rather than lots of low-value shots. But we clearly have a problem with consistently scoring. Let's take a look at the Atalanta game as a case study.

Atalanta are 4th and play with a relatively standard 4-2-3-1, using a target forward in Norwegian Alexander Sørloth. We have clearly completely nullified their attack with the 4-1-4-1, allowing them only 2 shots - one a freekick from the corner of the box and the other a shot from the second ball at a corner. This is their passes received map showing how well we've protected the centre - the only passes received anywhere near our box was out at the corners. I think it also shows how well we've engaged when they approach our final third whether down the flank or through the middle with a clear barrier showing at the edge of the middle third. All lovely.

I was also pretty pleased with our attacking stats in this game, to be honest. 9 shots for 1.49 xG gives us 0.166 xG/shot and the game registering two 'clear cut chances'. My mental model is that I want to average somewhere around 1.8xG per game with ~0.15xG/shot. I think this level of output, combined with the defensive strength, should see us win more often than not. So we weren't far off that in this game and against strong opposition. 

We can also see from the xG story that it wasn't just a flurry of chances during a short spell of pressure - we created good opportunities throughout the match with every single shot coming within the box and all but two within the width of the 6-yard box. 

Looking at the culprits, we have one of my centre-backs at the top of the list - unsurprisingly with two headers from corners. Not a lot we can do to improve matters there. Set pieces are a reasonably strong area for us, although the planned recruitment of taller, physical players should feed into more success in this area.

Then we have probably the best opportunity of the lot. Whilst 6'5" right-back Adam Bakoune missed one header from a corner, this was his key chance.

Playing as an inverted wingback in the '3' of our 2-3 build-up, he spots the space and drives into it then has a shot from around the penalty spot. He should absolutely score this. But he's a right-back and finishing is absolutely not his forté. (in the graphical attributes I use, his finishing is 'grey' - meaning that it's bottom quartile). I tend to use one IWB on defend to make sure we keep numbers back and a second, usually Bakoune, on support to provide some additional creativity. If opportunities like this become more frequent then perhaps I should be looking at the finishing attributes for future fullback recruitment... or even consider putting one of them on attacking duty.

We then have Vignato - our false 9. He's had one shot from a decent enough area, on his weaker foot, and hit the target. I don't so much have a problem with the chance here, or the personnel. It's the first bit that's clearly the issue. He's had one shot. Our left-winger has also had one, from out wide, and the sub right winger has had one, from the breakdown of a corner. Pablo Rodriguez came on as a late sub at 9 and also had one shot. Neither of our central midfielders, supposedly providing deep runs have had a single shot between them.

My idea has always been that the 9 drops off the line, pulls a defender or two with him and creates space for the runners. To that end, I've had two attacking wingers keeping the width, with a CM(A) and a B2B in the middle. The DM and IWBs then provide the '3' of the 2-3 to provide protection against the counter and an ability to recycle the ball. From the Atalanta game, here is a decent example. Vignato has dropped off and received the pass from Basic (B2B), who is then looking to run beyond.

The play runs on and Vignato plays it wide to Zemura, Basic has run on into the space that Vignato has created, whilst Sotiris (CM A) is also attacking on the other side. Sadly, Zemura doesn't play the pass to Basic but instead takes on his fullback and tries to play the cross. By this time, Atalanta have numbers back and Vignato, a diminutive false 9 rather than a hulking target forward, is easily contained whilst we have two other options in the box.

It feels like the opportunity was there for what I want to happen, but instead the play has developed into something which is unsuited to our strengths. And it clearly isn't an uncommon occurence.

Here's the attacking stats for the midfielders and forwards. The main protagonists, who I would be expected to be getting at least two shots per 90 each, are clearly not getting away enough opportunities. Their xG per shot is pretty good - particularly the two 9s, but Sotiris and Basic are the two that I want to be running onto the ball from deep and that's clearly not working. Basic is getting 1.29 shots per game, of which 0.93 are outside the box. Sotiris 1.17 and 0.76 respectively.

I've also highlighted the wingers, Joel Mvuka and Jordan Zemura - putting in over 4 crosses per 90 each for a paltry 7% success rate. Barbaro, the second choice right winger, appears to have had zero successful crosses. I think this is probably where my issue lies. I went with attacking wingers to stretch the play and get in behind out wide. Noting that our strikers are ickle, I've gone with low crosses - in my head this would be a through ball from the false 9 to the winger who would burst on and play a low ball across the box for the onrushing midfielders or even the 9 again.

Perhaps I would be better keeping these wide players as wingers on support - or perhaps wide midfielders with some PIs to stop them taking on their man and getting to the byline. Yes, their dribbles are impressive but there's a time and a place. Perhaps I should even be looking at the "run at defence" team instruction and taking this out - instead adding it to the central players' personal instructions as this is where I want those line-breaking runs to create numerical advantages...

Anyway, apologies. This has been a bit of a stream of consciousness. We're doing fine. Pretty well really. But there's definitely an issue with our goalscoring ability and I find posts like this useful to organise my thoughts and spot the issues. If anyone else has seen something that I've missed then please feel free to offer your suggestions.

Also, if anyone knows how I change the thread title, please let me know.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Shrewnaldo

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, Shrewnaldo said:

Also, if anyone knows how I change the thread title, please let me know

A beautiful post - one that I’ve skim read but will dig even deeper over the next few days. Like you said in my thread - I love the slight differences in styles - particularly that I favour a 3-2 build up to your 2-3. 

To answer your question in the quote - edit your first post and it’s available there. 

[Shrewnaldo]

1 hour ago, _Ben_ said:

A beautiful post - one that I’ve skim read but will dig even deeper over the next few days. Like you said in my thread - I love the slight differences in styles - particularly that I favour a 3-2 build up to your 2-3. 

To answer your question in the quote - edit your first post and it’s available there. 

Nice one, much ta.

Changed the title from Leoni del Garda to Reigning Cats and Dogs. Was the best I could do considering we've moved from the feline Lions of Garda, to the canine Mastiffs of Hellas. We'll see where we go next

[Shrewnaldo]

Hmmm... switched to 4-4-2 at half time

[Shrewnaldo]

Might have solved the goals issue

[Shrewnaldo]

Is there any money in Italy

I Mastini - Hellas Verona

Football can be a cruel game, Football Manager all the more so. Going into the final minute of my first season in Verona, we were pulling off an improbable qualification for Europe. Fiorentina, who had gone into the final day holding 7th spot, were losing 2-0 at Lazio. We only needed to beat Sassuolo, already safe and playing for nothing, to steal into Europe at the final hurdle. Well there's final hurdles and then there's a banana skin just yards from the finish line. In the 95th minute, leading Sassuolo 1-0, we conceded a dreadful equaliser to a dreadful human being that I shan't name on these pages.

Pain.

Yet we can't be too disappointed with 8th. It's well ahead of our media prediction which meandered between relegation fodder and safe by the skin of our teeth. In the end, we were never troubled by the bottom half of the table, nevermind the drop, and were unsurprisingly the over-achievers of the season.

Milan won the Scudetto back from Juve, whilst the usual suspects filled out the upper echelons of the table - only Roma were surprisingly poor, finishing 10th. Benevento, Empoli and Spezia were relegated back to Serie B with Parma, Salernitana and Sampdoria (finally) making their way back to the top tier. FeralpiSalò finished a creditable 7th in my absence but failed, again, at the preliminary playoff round. The former Parma manager Gabriele Cioffi taking advantage of the match engine fixes to provide the defensive stability I never could - the Lions of Garda conceding just 30, scoring a paltry 40.

It was nice to see that Feralpi's best player was 6'4" holding midfielder Simone Panada, a deal I'd arranged before departing. Semuel Pizzignacco, a stalwart in goal during my time there, was also so impressive that he won the Serie B Goalkeeper of the Year Award... and a free transfer to Hellas Verona.

Pizzignacco joined Strasbourg's Abakar Sylla (centre half) and Sampdoria's Leonardo Benedetti in pre-arranged Bosmans to the Bentegodi. The former two are squad players more than starters, whilst Benedetti should get plenty of game time as a box-to-box midfielder. I've always liked doing my business as early as possible but here it caused me no end of problems.

Because, much like in Salò, the board has implemented a cut to my wage budget of about 10%. So those deals to bring in Pizzignacco, Sylla and Benedetti bust my budget immediately. With just £2.2m in transfer budget, I had to look at selling before buying.

We don't really have many sellable assets - or at least ones that I wanted to let go. Primarily I was looking at the highest earners and who I could do with getting off the bill. Mickael Malsa, earning £55k a week at 32, was therefore an easy target and he was joined at the exit by 30 year-old Toni Moya on £22k a week. Neither were first-choice players and could easily be replaced with cheaper options.

So far, they are the only ones out the door but there's a decent chance they could be joined by other high-earners. Centre back Bruno Amione (£59k), Ander Guevara at 6 (58k), left mid Jordan Zemura (£58k) and first-choice striker Pablo Rodriguez (£46k) are all decent but I think replaceable for those wages. My concern is that we are short on quality, rather than quantity, so my scouting has largely focused on potential replacements should either of these four move on. Without the wiggle room in fees or wages, what we've brought in so far has been primarily providing a solid second-string, with the exception of Giovanni Fabbian for whom I have high hopes.

They'll all look to fit into the evolving 4-1-4-1, and all with a view to improving that physical, aggressive element I've committed to.

Having given up on the notion of the wide midfielders moving into the 10 role for creativity, I'd been using a false 9 to drop off the line, create space and play through balls for runners from deep. Per my post above, this had been working to an extent but we'd really struggled for goals and a look into the details had indicated that we just weren't making the passes for the runners. So I've switched it up a bit again and changed the roles of the wide players. Rather than attacking wingers looking to get in behind with pace and running power, I'm holding them in deeper roles and looking for them to make the passes from wide.

In particular, I was looking to exploit the talents of newgen right mid Alexander Barbaro who came through our academy in 23/24. He has elite first touch, technique, balance and - most crucially - passing. So whilst he did ok as a winger, it really wasn't making the most of his potential. Instead, I'm looking for something much more like this. Hold the width, draw the fullback, don't look to take him on with a dribble but instead play the pass into space for the on-rushing CM(A) from MCR. Perfect.

With the fullbacks coming inside as inverted wingbacks, it also really helps our transition from through the middle-third. Here's a basic example where Barbaro is holding the width around halfway and receiving the ball from defence as the fullback behind him is moving into midfield.

The Empoli left-back has pushed right up to engage Barbaro on the turn, leaving the huge highlighted gap behind him. The Empoli centre halves should really shift across but our CM(A) is bursting into that space and receiving a very simple pass from Barbaro. Inside two passes we've bypassed their entire midfield and disrupted their defensive line. I haven't tended to use wide players in this way before but I'm absolutely loving the WM(S) role and its versatility through the PIs.

It also had a knock-on effect on the 9. As we're looking to build through these wide players, I didn't necessarily need the false 9 to be dropping off and looking to link play any more. I haven't entirely settled on what to do with the 9 but have gone with a DLF(A) for now - something of a halfway house really. I think ideally I'll go with a Complete Forward on Attack duty in time, but suspect that the real game-changer will be the quality of personnel rather than the role. And sadly we just can't get that quality at the moment. I nearly managed to sign Mateo Retegui on a free transfer from Genoa. Having scored 80 goals over the last 5 seasons, the nationalised Argentine would have been perfect and a real step up from our current options. Sadly he chose the riches of Saudi Arabia and a £725k per week salary. Fair enough, really.

The lack of such funds is probably the only thing holding us back now. I think one of two pieces of genuine quality would turn us into genuine contenders for the European spots. A quality 9, 6 and midfield runner would go some way to bringing the additional 20 points we need to bridge the gap. But we'll have to do without. Money seems to be in short supply in Italy - at least until we hit the Champions League. So it'll need to be more targeted signings, free transfers and unearthing quality bargains. 

And whilst we're at it, increasing the physical prowess of the side. I went back to FeralpiSalò in January to sign 6'6" Coli Saco for back-up in midfield. He heads a long list >6' signings including one I really like the look of, the aforementioned Giovanni Fabbian.

His statistical output on loan at Bodø Glimt and a handful of games for Bologna was quietly impressive and my scouts were keen. Furthermore, he's a Model Citizen with good physicals and a suite of very handy traits that'll suit the CM(A) role perfectly. Even his negatives - "has a competitive streak which can occasionally lead to him bending the rules" - fits in nicely with the model we're going for. I have high hopes.

Given the finances, I should probably be going all 'meta' and buying wonderkids with re-sale value but I'm really enjoying this alternative way of playing. Now I just need it to work on the pitch too.

[ifinnem]

Very interesting Shrew, love the use of WMs, not too common

[_Ben_]

1 hour ago, Shrewnaldo said:

In the 95th minute, leading Sassuolo 1-0, we conceded a dreadful equaliser to a dreadful human being that I shan't name on these pages.

Sassuolo gave me an entry into Italian football last year, so I must admit to a soft spot for them! You'll have to share who scored though, for nothing else other than a collective shunning of said player!

2 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

We don't really have many sellable assets - or at least ones that I wanted to let go. Primarily I was looking at the highest earners and who I could do with getting off the bill. Mickael Malsa, earning £55k a week at 32, was therefore an easy target and he was joined at the exit by 30 year-old Toni Moya on £22k a week. Neither were first-choice players and could easily be replaced with cheaper options.

The first part of this is an issue I've faced this off-season, too. Have you got any young players who can be used, short term, as methods of income? The level I'm at means that anyone half good is already needed in the first team!

2 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

They'll all look to fit into the evolving 4-1-4-1

An interesting shape but one that shares a lot of similarities to mine in most areas bar the pressing. However, I try to use a lot of OI to trigger traps and the like.

2 hours ago, Shrewnaldo said:

He heads a long list >6' signings including one I really like the look of, the aforementioned Giovanni Fabbian.

I like him! Mentally and physically strong, which is what you need there and, given the style you're going for, probably allows him to be less technical.

---

What are your aims for the season ahead?

[Shrewnaldo]

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

Sassuolo gave me an entry into Italian football last year, so I must admit to a soft spot for them! You'll have to share who scored though, for nothing else other than a collective shunning of said player!

That'll be a certain ex-Man Utd forward who was facing criminal charges until not long ago. So I genuinely meant it when I said "dreadful human being". It wasn't hyperbole.

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

The first part of this is an issue I've faced this off-season, too. Have you got any young players who can be used, short term, as methods of income? The level I'm at means that anyone half good is already needed in the first team!

Sadly no. I've offloaded a few who wouldn't quite make it and were earning a few thousand a week each. We have, though, had a very nice intake this season so it's possible that we could have a couple coming through. I think a more likely route is existing clauses that I could sell. But even that will only bring in a few million at most.

2 hours ago, _Ben_ said:

What are your aims for the season ahead?

I think it's got to be Europe. We came so close this season that anything else would probably be considered a step back. And I think we'll need the extra money to take the step up. 

I'm also taking a closer look at the personality profile in the squad. We've got a couple of perfectionists and a model citizen now.

But I think it's a big ask. To catch Lazio in 6th, we'd have needed another 12 points. So maybe turning 3 losses and 3 draws into wins? We lost 14 games last season and only 2 of them weren't against the big 8 clubs. Similarly we drew 8 games and only 4 of those weren't against the big teams. So it's hard to find those extra points unless we can genuinely take on the big guns. We beat Milan, drew with Juve, Lazio and Atalanta (twice)... conceded last minute deciders against Inter and Juve... so it's not impossible. Just very, very difficult.

Perhaps not going into Europe this year will actually be a blessing, avoiding the fatigue and weakening with rotation.

[Shrewnaldo]

I didn't like 'Reigning Cats and Dogs' - too obscure and who knows if the next clubs will have any canine or feline references.

So 'The Traipsing of the Shrew' is next up. Because it's sort of like a journeyman... traipsing around Europe at different clubs... it's a shame The Taming of the Shrew wasn't one of Shakespeare's two plays set in Verona.

[Lestri]

I wonder whether a Mezzala might help a little to complement your use of Barbaro to sit a little inside. That way they hopefully stretch the midfield for the CM(A)/Striker to move into the space? Probably would have to go to a flat 5 in the middle though.

[Shrewnaldo]

7 hours ago, Lestri said:

I wonder whether a Mezzala might help a little to complement your use of Barbaro to sit a little inside. That way they hopefully stretch the midfield for the CM(A)/Striker to move into the space? Probably would have to go to a flat 5 in the middle though.

I did think about a mezzala but I want the WM to stay wide and pull the defence across, then the runner to get into the channel outside the centre back on that side. I found the mezz had the tendency to come too wide, whereas a CM(A) from MCR gets the more central movement that I want. I think the primary question now is what does the 9 do.

I really like the WM holds the width though - particularly deep width. I've always been focused on exploiting space. The space will always exist somewhere, it's just about moving the space to where I want it to be rather than where the defensive team wants it to be. 

A long time ago, I used the analogy of the sliding tile puzzles - Tactical case study – The Dugout (wordpress.com). I think it's still an apt comparison to make and I find it a useful mental model for both our defensive and offensive shapes. Using the WM helps me shift the space from in front of the defending fullback to space in behind him. That then disrupts the defensive line and forces the centre backs to react to our runner from deep - which in turn moves that space to the centre or potentially in behind.

[Lestri]

10 minutes ago, Shrewnaldo said:

I did think about a mezzala but I want the WM to stay wide and pull the defence across, then the runner to get into the channel outside the centre back on that side. I found the mezz had the tendency to come too wide, whereas a CM(A) from MCR gets the more central movement that I want. I think the primary question now is what does the 9 do.

I really like the WM holds the width though - particularly deep width. I've always been focused on exploiting space. The space will always exist somewhere, it's just about moving the space to where I want it to be rather than where the defensive team wants it to be. 

A long time ago, I used the analogy of the sliding tile puzzles - Tactical case study – The Dugout (wordpress.com). I think it's still an apt comparison to make and I find it a useful mental model for both our defensive and offensive shapes. Using the WM helps me shift the space from in front of the defending fullback to space in behind him. That then disrupts the defensive line and forces the centre backs to react to our runner from deep - which in turn moves that space to the centre or potentially in behind.

Fair point! Completely agree that it's about the 9 now, especially with the lack of quality CFs that are available for you due to budget constraints.

[Shrewnaldo]

Currently feeling very smug about the signing of Fabbian

Tough start to the season but pleased with the two away draws at the big clubs, particularly Napoli where we were the better side and suffered from a late freekick from Koopmeiners. Still, I got to see Fabbian do this.