Gaming - Are people obsessed with 'new features'?

[Dagenham_Dave]

I was having a nostalgic look back at the feature reveals from some of the older FM's, and for some of them, it was quite startling how little differences there was or what minor new features were actually added. People whined the building down last year with the FM23 feature reveal, even though a few genuinely new features were added in. 

Looking back at the FM16 feature reveal for example, and the third big headline feature was being able to customise your manager's avatar. (and the first two were 'create a club' and 'fantasy draft', neither of which added anything to the core single player mode). People would be going NUTS if that was a major feature reveal nowadays. 

So, the question is, have we now become so obsessed with the concept of 'new features' in a yearly game cycle that unless the wheel is re-invented, the new game is always going to fall short? Can't we just accept that evolution is sometimes more important than revolution? I think this also puts so much pressure on SI to come up with new stuff every year, sometimes to the detriment of the game. Nobody asked for, or even needed a 'manager timeline', but the intense pressure to add something different, something new must be insane in the current entitled generation. 

SI got a bit of a free pass this year with the news FM25 is going to be a whole new game, and kudos to them for still putting in some killer new features for this year's game. 

Personally, I would be happy if SI updated the database and ironed out some of the things that needed improved upon, and only putting shiny new features in when they are 100% ready. How often do we see a new feature shoehorned in when it's clearly not finished. Squad planner anyone? Data hub? 

[Jonthedon26]

Yep, I agree completely. It is the same with practically every annual sports title, they all get hammered by most people. I would be perfectly happy with a database update and updates to match engine, media handling, squad planner, transfer activity and AI squad building etc none of which are "new features" but then people just call it an update to FM23 or FM23.5 or something. 

[kevhamster]

I don't play many annual release games outside of FM these days, and with FM I'm happy with refinement as much as anything.  New features are all well and good, but if it's not adding anything valuable to the game then what's the point?

[trevjim]

1 hour ago, Jonthedon26 said:

Yep, I agree completely. It is the same with practically every annual sports title, they all get hammered by most people. I would be perfectly happy with a database update and updates to match engine, media handling, squad planner, transfer activity and AI squad building etc none of which are "new features" but then people just call it an update to FM23 or FM23.5 or something. 

I think the issue then is, if they are doing incremental improvements. Why are they still charging full price?

 

I think the reason people want "new features" is because they want a new experience from the previous year.

 

For the record, I agree with you that I would prefer fundamentals such AI and Match engine to be improved the most over some new feature that no one will use after a couple of goes. (Which thankfully seems to be the case this year)

It's also a bit cheeky having things such as "set pieces" as new features when they have always been in the game in different forms.

 

QOL and UI improvements are not new features either despite being marketed as such. 

 

As someone who has played since CM 98/99, what appeals to me the most is Tactics and Transfers. All the fluff like tedious player interactions are negative additions for me (which is why FM touch was so good for PC as it streamlined them)

 

The focus from SI in previous years has seemed to be mostly on the fluff and less on the core aspects of the game, which is absolutely fine, because although I don't like that side, there are many players who do.

 

So to summarise, I think people are just getting frustrated that the improvements each year are so incremental for the price point we pay.

[phd_angel]

Agree with @Dagenham_Dave.

I typically cringe when I hear the words "revolutionary" "new" "features" combined in the same sentence...

I'm happy to see some broken feature being fixed for good, along with a nice database update.

Edited October 17, 2023 by phd_angel

[phnompenhandy]

I believe that I myself am not "obsessed" with new features at all. I take them on an individual basis. None of the 'new features' announced for FM23 interested me, but as I'd skipped FM22, I felt it was a sufficient upgrade. Actually, the main reason I buy new FMs is not due to anything SI do, but to keep up with the fantastic fan-created mods and dbs. That in fact is the sole new feature that prompts me to purchase FM24 - the facility to port over my FM23 save into the new game. I'm not bothered by any other announcement.

[mibsweden]

Yeah, I agree with the OP.

 

On an added note - considering the value you get per hour from this game I am surprised it is not more expensive than it is. Soo much fun for so little money, it is amazing.

[kiwityke1983]

I can't remember the last genuine new feature we got in FM, so no I don't agree people are obsessed with new features. I think rightly the new features last year were roundly criticized as they were useless fluff and most people probably haven't used them beyond a handful of times.

Also this years features are an example of what people actually want which is core gameplay features being upgraded or modified to fix issues with them and they've gotten an almost universal positive reaction.

[alian62]

1 hour ago, mibsweden said:

Yeah, I agree with the OP.

 

On an added note - considering the value you get per hour from this game I am surprised it is not more expensive than it is. Soo much fun for so little money, it is amazing.

You can expect a price rise for FM25 . That will be inevitable 

[santy001]

I think often times it depends on the game genre. Some do need to move on to keep interest, or to avoid the game becoming a solved equation. 

Putting features in only when they're 100% ready will never work for a game that is developed in an iterative manner like SI does. Some future systems, maybe those not even on the 5-10 year down the road stage, need some things to be in place through other systems before they can come to fruition. Some are new things to the game but turn out to be a little underwhelming. Look at Starfield, as far as I'm aware Bethesda never had a procedural generation module/aspect to any of their games before. It's hardly revolutionary to games, but they've got that working in their engine now and I feel its fairly likely it will somehow come to use in the next Elder Scroll/Fallout games (probably to adjust caves & dungeons to have a bit more variation than the 10 or so tilesets they had before in different arrangements). 

[rdbayly]

My personal obsession is that the core gameplay needs to improve. I have become increasingly frustrated with the patterns of play that are presented to me during matches. It seems there have been a new set of issues with every release of late. This year it was the blocked shots that endlessly loop into the keepers hands or players running to the byline and doing a 180 before passing it back to a full back (who squares it for someone to blaze it over the bar). I should not be able to predict a highlight in such a dynamic sport.

Elsewhere in the game, my long-term save declined into a farce this year after 10 seasons, as the average age of international squads was about 32 There were zero U21 players of sufficient quality to transition into the team as they had not been developed at their clubs. The transfer market seizes up at the this point, with every player of the quality needed for your squad valued at £250m (!). All of this needs to be fixed big time. If there is one thing I can't stand is the introduction of issues that have not been a historical problem; presumably due to knock-on effects of trying to address something else entirely.

It has become increasingly obvious that the engines were taken as far as could go, and the 2025 announcement was the best thing that we could have hope for.

In summary, I don't care about new features, just fix the existing ones.  

[DarJ]

I have said it before and will say it again.

The “problem” with yearly releases of sport games is the fact that these games are replicating something that exists in real life and doesn’t change from year to year. We are also at the point with these games where you can’t really add anything new because almost everything that could be added is already there in some form or the order so all that’s left to do is to keep refining them.

For that reason I personally don’t expect anything new in the game, I just want them to improve what they already have. Of course that won’t help to market the game so they have to keep repackaged things that are already there and call them a different name so they can be able to market it.

[Dagenham_Dave]

What doesn't help is the insufferable glut of YouTubers falling over themselves to bring out a 'new features' video, then marking each feature out of 10. 

[DP]

The problem is the word ‘features‘. It implies that new things are added and that’s not always required - I’d suggest too many things have been added and the game suffers from bloat. This is definitely the view of a lot of older players. 

What the game does need year on year though is incremental change - things can always be improved. If ‘new’ things are not added but existing things get a good refinement or improvement, I’ll be happy. I do get the issues with this though from a marketing/buzz perspective. 

Edited October 17, 2023 by DP

[bigmattb28]

6 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

What doesn't help is the insufferable glut of YouTubers falling over themselves to bring out a 'new features' video, then marking each feature out of 10. 

A simple thing to do in this case is not watch any of them. Not 1 of them I like.

[Mars_Blackmon]

On 16/10/2023 at 06:50, Dagenham_Dave said:

I was having a nostalgic look back at the feature reveals from some of the older FM's, and for some of them, it was quite startling how little differences there was or what minor new features were actually added. People whined the building down last year with the FM23 feature reveal, even though a few genuinely new features were added in. 

Looking back at the FM16 feature reveal for example, and the third big headline feature was being able to customise your manager's avatar. (and the first two were 'create a club' and 'fantasy draft', neither of which added anything to the core single player mode). People would be going NUTS if that was a major feature reveal nowadays. 

So, the question is, have we now become so obsessed with the concept of 'new features' in a yearly game cycle that unless the wheel is re-invented, the new game is always going to fall short? Can't we just accept that evolution is sometimes more important than revolution? I think this also puts so much pressure on SI to come up with new stuff every year, sometimes to the detriment of the game. Nobody asked for, or even needed a 'manager timeline', but the intense pressure to add something different, something new must be insane in the current entitled generation. 

SI got a bit of a free pass this year with the news FM25 is going to be a whole new game, and kudos to them for still putting in some killer new features for this year's game. 

Personally, I would be happy if SI updated the database and ironed out some of the things that needed improved upon, and only putting shiny new features in when they are 100% ready. How often do we see a new feature shoehorned in when it's clearly not finished. Squad planner anyone? Data hub? 

You do it by setting a foundation and building upon it. Some new features this year isn’t fully integrated but I personally wouldn’t want to wait until it’s fully integrated because that could take years and some of the concept they would have been working on might become outdated. As long as everything works as intended, setting foundation to build upon new features is fine for a yearly release game.

[p7aymaker]

i miss Championship Manager 01/02

[rusty217]

Feel like they kind of need it for marketing purposes. They need something to show off as shiny and new and a reason to buy the game. Can't say I particularly care about the new features they've added recently though. I actually think the manager timeline thing is a downgrade from what we had before and the manager avatar stuff is just an annoyance.

That said, new features are definitely something that would hype me up for a new FM, it's just the features I care about (editor stuff) isn't good for marketing so there often isn't much and when there is it doesn't get any announcement or anything.

[phnompenhandy]

58 minutes ago, bigmattb28 said:

A simple thing to do in this case is not watch any of them. Not 1 of them I like.

I followed a few for about a year. Over that time I saw a few of their egos grow to obnoxious proportions. Got sick of them and unsubscribed from the lot.

[p7aymaker]

yo!

Edited October 17, 2023 by p7aymaker

[phd_angel]

4 hours ago, p7aymaker said:

i miss Championship Manager 01/02

[forameuss]

FM is one of those games where it's not about the individual new features, but about how everything combines to add up to the entire product.  One amazing new feature might be received very well, but if your day-to-day interactions with the game are still a depressing grind, it's not going to mean much.  If they added no major new features, but a million little quality of life improvements that do the opposite, that's going to hit a lot more.

It's why the marketing for this game - and to a lesser extent, any title - is becoming less and less relevant as time goes on.  It'd be an interesting hypothetical experiment for them to release a product with pretty much no hype or marketing and leave the users to form their own opinions.  I think it would end up far more positive generally to be honest.

[odigweg]

Interesting thoughts here, honestly. I think the practice of unveiling new games every year is one that needs to, and probably will, go away. It bugs me more for FIFA than it does with FM - maybe because sometimes it seems EA Sports are being intentionally obtuse. I also agree with some here in saying that the term "new features" probably doesn't cut it. In any case, I am excited about the new role interactions this year because it's something I have been crying out for for ages. I thought for a while the tactics engine was too static. Now SI just need to introduce pressing structures next year :)) 

[SPE3D]

I don't know if people are obsessed with new features or that is the perception of the game developers. Either way I feel from reading these forums the majority of people here would prefer existing features perfected over new features.

[KeiranShikari]

Flash new features sell games unfortunately. SI love their feature drops.

[Andros]

Whilst it is obviously for a different audience, a game that doesn't progress much could end up like this:

 

[p7aymaker]

[Damedius]

I would be happy if they just improved the existing features in the game. I would go further and say I would like a lot of these features removed if they can't improve them. I find the game has had the same issues every year for years. I would much rather these were addressed and made better than adding more features.

[Damedius]

On 19/10/2023 at 00:07, Andros said:

Whilst it is obviously for a different audience, a game that doesn't progress much could end up like this:

 

That's not the problem with the NBA 2K series. The problem with NBA2k is that they slow down progression to try and force players to spend real world money to improve your player. That's right, the game is designed in order to encourage players to spend real world money to improve their players attributes.

Imagine the outrage if developing players was slowed down to a fraction of what it currently is and you had to pay real money in order to get your players to improve faster.

The only changes they do seem to make is to the My Player Career mode. Every year it's an awful story with boring cut scenes and cheesy lines. On top of that there have been versions where you can't skip certain parts of the story so you are forced to watch it again and again.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Damedius

[Amarante]

On 19/10/2023 at 01:07, Andros said:

Whilst it is obviously for a different audience, a game that doesn't progress much could end up like this:

 

Actually as someone who owns 2K on Console 24 is by far and large gameplay wise one of the best 2Ks with the introduction of Pro Play your player animation is the best. The problem with 2K on PC is that they've been copy paste the same game for the past 4 years on PC refusing to do anything about cheaters and charging 70 dollars 

[FM'd-BRO]

With the announcement of FM25 and the bells and whistles that came with it, I personally fear for SI, expectations are high, announcing it 2 years from release is an own goal imo. I've seen the mixed reaction to this year's title and the game hasn't officially released. I'm optimistic about the future FM titles, but remain pessimistic. 

[Etebaer]

I disagree that Create a Club did nothing for the players as it was the sole reason i started playing FM Games again.

My motivation to have a career at different clubs or to manage a single but existing club is nil!

My drive is to start up a new club and lead it from the lowest available league into the topflight (there i most often lose my motivation bcs it changes from developing a club into managing a club and at my heart i am a player who likes to develop but managing is mostly boring to me).

It is imho a shame that SI has degraded the Create a Club mode so you no longer can use mods and i have to use the ingame editor and tricking with the league files to "simulate" Create a Club via the Career Mode so i can use league files and other mods.

 

I was thinking about to play F1 Manager but that thought ended right the moment when i found out you can not create your own F1 Team.

Aside of the somewhat lacking simulation and downturning UI that makes me not immersed but gives me the feel to look at a smartphone game.

I played Geoff Crammonds F1 games back in the day and they had an excellent race physic and realism and i ever wished someone would make a F1 Manager based on such a sim with the ability to create F1 Teams and have a driver your develop rpg style.

 

Creating my own Team is pretty much a must have for me in such games!

 

PS: The danger that comes with FM25 is the transition to a new tech they have little experience with but even more so from the burnt out influencers that will find out graphics is no solution to their burn out...

Edited October 31, 2023 by Etebaer

[trevjim]

5 hours ago, Etebaer said:

I disagree that Create a Club did nothing for the players as it was the sole reason i started playing FM Games again.

My motivation to have a career at different clubs or to manage a single but existing club is nil!

My drive is to start up a new club and lead it from the lowest available league into the topflight (there i most often lose my motivation bcs it changes from developing a club into managing a club and at my heart i am a player who likes to develop but managing is mostly boring to me).

It is imho a shame that SI has degraded the Create a Club mode so you no longer can use mods and i have to use the ingame editor and tricking with the league files to "simulate" Create a Club via the Career Mode so i can use league files and other mods.

 

I was thinking about to play F1 Manager but that thought ended right the moment when i found out you can not create your own F1 Team.

Aside of the somewhat lacking simulation and downturning UI that makes me not immersed but gives me the feel to look at a smartphone game.

I played Geoff Crammonds F1 games back in the day and they had an excellent race physic and realism and i ever wished someone would make a F1 Manager based on such a sim with the ability to create F1 Teams and have a driver your develop rpg style.

 

Creating my own Team is pretty much a must have for me in such games!

 

PS: The danger that comes with FM25 is the transition to a new tech they have little experience with but even more so from the burnt out influencers that will find out graphics is no solution to their burn out...

Just a side note. F1 manager is terrible. It looks good, but the management and simulation side is virtually non existent. Even tyre changes do virtually nothing.  It's essentially. Race. Get XP/Money, invest, Repeat. You can win the title in your first season easy with any team. 

[Etebaer]

Yeah, i bought instead Motorsport Manager, modded it to F1 Season  2023, created a custom team and fiddled around with it - i payed ~3 Euros.

I am convinced this ~2016 sim is not worse than F1 Manager 23...

[trevjim]

25 minutes ago, Etebaer said:

Yeah, i bought instead Motorsport Manager, modded it to F1 Season  2023, created a custom team and fiddled around with it - i payed ~3 Euros.

I am convinced this ~2016 sim is not worse than F1 Manager 23...

It's not worse. There's a deep dive somewhere that shows F1 Manager is absolutely awful under the hood and player choices and interaction's are almost pointless. It's pretty much and Idle game.

 

Motorsport manager was similar to a degree but at least the tyre choices had an impact etc.

 

The sad thing was the Devs of F1 manager 22 (frontier?) said it couldnt be fixed but community modded it and got it almost to a good level, and yet the Devs still denied it.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2023 by trevjim

[rambo55]

FM is great game. FM24 has many great improvements over 23 and its just beta. I been lot negative about 24 but honestly AI is too easy here. it seems easier than in 23 and i feel my points are valid. Afterall AI should have been improved.  Personally me i was interested getting 24 already over 23 as player stats will be different + they start different teams etc... so that will be always big thing why to get new FM. Tho im thankful for set pieces, its beautiful even tho maybe op? Anyways i know there will be some fixes sooner or later and im sure it will be best fm out there - thank you. 

____

About f1 manager, i nolifed it 3 seasons past few days as i always wanted to try it and as a f1 fan + its on gamepass.. Game overall = have potential. However idk if they even have passion there about the game or what as there are some things that should be super easy fix/ make it better but they havent done it (for example contract neg. is terrible). i played as Williams and first season getting finally p10 gave me really good feeling... p8 was my peak first season and i was super happy with it. this is why im saying it has potential, how i felt as player on some moments.  

Drunk idea: maybe they should hire me as a game tester for cheap money i can nolife strategy based game(s) a lot.