Creation 3-4-2-1

[Mik_Fe]

I have been working on this tactical project for some time, and it all starts from the fact that when FM24 comes out, when the ME is "stable" I will want to use it in a career with Roma.

Starting from the tactical idea, I briefly describe:

Possession Phase:

The team must play direct football, by direct I don't mean the passes but the pace, sustained and decisive, with passes that are on average short but of high intensity. Specifically, as regards the departments, the defense must think without sweeping. Once the pressing line has been overcome, and therefore theoretically with the ball under the control of the CC or TRQ, we target the opponent or play first, opening up on the sides for the WB who will have passed the CC line in the meantime, on the attacking midfield we can opt for a backward discharge for offensive and non-offensive midfielders, or crossing it in the middle for the striker.

 

Non-Possession Phase:

The team must absolutely try to avoid being overtaken by long balls, so the 3 in front will have to act as disturbers for the start of the opponent's action. We will not remain with very high lines and our pressing will start in midfield.
The defenders in the non-possession phase will have to remain in position with the central defender ready to run behind with the two CMs who will have to work hard!

 

Transition instant:

Loss of the ball, ideally in the opponent's back three, I want a re-aggression having coverage of 3 defensive players, but if we win it back, ideally in our back three, considering that we remain compact just below the midfield line, I want a decisive restart towards the striker with the two adv.midfield that will be found in support or a verticalization on they.

 

 

Considering this, I am working on 3 tactics to apply in the various slots, 3-4-2-1 will be our basic formation, depending on the progress of the match or the opponent to be faced, I will also build a 3-4-1-2 more offensive and vertical and a 3-5-2 with a compact wall that maintains possession.

But let's go step by step, analyzing and commenting with you on the basic tactics;

It is a known (especially in recent years) 3-4-2-1 or 5-2-2-1.

 

Once we have seen and analyzed the basic tactics in terms of structure and timing of the game, we move on to the individual instructions of the players:

Sweeper keeper - Defense (standard without any instructions and therefore without posts)

Central defender - Covering (NB: for those who are more attentive, they will have noticed the pressing notches with the covering task and the notches with defense/marking, with the consequent analysis)

Wide Centre Back - Defense

Wing-back - Support

Deep Lying Playmaker - Defence

Ball winning midfielder - Support

Advanced Playmaker - Support

Attacking Midfielder - Support

Pressing Forward - Attack

 

 

A little insight into the players and the "roles" assigned to them...

SK-De: Modern goalkeeper. Nothing more and nothing less, a good goalkeeper with sufficient feet, we didn't ask him anything except to save everything 

CD-Co: The Last Man. He is nothing other than our central defensive bulwark, the one who doesn't set but who only has to move the ball from right to left in the back department, theDLP and the AP take care of taking good risks in case, he has to escape on long balls and make defensive diagonals if the opposing attackers cut behind the WCB coming out while pressing or doubling. basic skills of a DC with attention to speed.

WCB-De: Technique, physicality and speed. Defender who "would like to set" but doesn't, I don't want throws and risks but just turn the ball over to attract the opponents, so they stay wide and double helping the full-back, marking the opposing midfielders/IF/IW. Classic DC skills plus techniques for handling the ball.

WB - Su: A train. We ask a lot of him, both in offensive and defensive terms, even if we can turn a blind eye to the latter. having to travel a lot of kilometers during the match, it goes without saying that his physical qualities must be really good, he has no particular offensive tasks other than bombarding the area with crosses into the area or behind, in the defensive phase he must know how to position himself and must not be short of stature acting as a defensive fifth.

DLP-De: The exhaust. The ball comes out of him on the turn that the defense makes, the ball launches from him on the flanks or passing through his teammate, it remains between the midfield and the defense in the possession phase and will be used to turn the ball from side to side something else when we are in the last third of the pitch. basic DPL skills with the addition of physical skills.

BWM-Su: The Equalizer. He doesn't have any particular task, standard dribbling, standard risk, standard shooting. Do what needs to be done based on the situation, be more defensive if necessary or push if you can, but hit anything that comes near you. basic skills of a supporting CC, it is essential that he is an intelligent and physical player so as not to leave the DPL alone together with the DCs.

AP-Su: THE Playmaker. Our number 10 for excellence, technique and flair above all, he will be our last pass in the offensive phase and with freedom of movement he must do it in a wider range of action. AP skills are good with excellent mental and technical skills.

AM-Su: Half and half. Half playmaker and half shadow striker, he must overcome the opponent and communicate with the 2 offensive teammates by inserting himself into the spaces created by the striker and also remain in the "external finishing zone" if the wing-backs pass him behind. Skill of a support attacker mixed with a finisher, therefore technical, offensive mental and agility.

PF-At: Fulcrum. Basically this is... the only difference is that I don't end up wasting game time holding the ball like the default TM role does and talks me back like a real fulcrum. He must be a physical beast, strong in the head and fast, a complete attacker who does not need excellent technical skills, therefore the basic skills of a center forward with an absolute focus on physical size and physical skills. we ask him to score goals, to pass simple and not lose the ball because we will be in the pushing phase at that moment, nothing else special.

I would say that the tactic has been explained far and wide, the pleasant thing about the forum is that you can compare yourself with other people who can help you in commenting and growing, modifying and testing... this is what I ask of you, ask and comment why this tactic was created on a total theoretical basis and tested only in one season with West Ham (1 season with 31 games in the season and they are in 4th place -5 from third and +2 from fifth) therefore it needs more in-depth analysis.

I have some small doubts and curiosities but I first want to discuss with you what you see of this tactic, then maybe we'll get there.

Thank you all for your attention on this post!

 

PS: Sorry for the English Google 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Mik_Fe

[Arijit]

Hey, I like your tactical idea. I am a total tactical noob, I always visit this forum to get an idea. I was gonna start a new save for quick 5-10 seasons tonight. I might give your tactics a go.

[Mik_Fe]

Thanks for you comment Arijit.

 

Trty this tactic and tell me something about this. if you find some problems, some mistake or other. 

 

Thanks you!

[Mik_Fe]

I try one thing in this tactic, and i see that works good…

l change defensive line from higher to standard and nothing instruction relative drop off or step up.. 

works well…

 

[De Nile]

Looks good - similar to last years Roma

Edited October 18, 2023 by De Nile

[Arijit]

Small update: I am using this tactic with my team Monopoli. That's a real team in Italian Serie C, who knew.

Anyway, Monopoli is very small lower league team, hence it might be the lack of good players, I am not able to get better results yet. I have played 11, Won 3, Draw 4 and currently sitting in 11th. Although my goal is to achieve top half this season, which I think feasible, I am going to give this tactic little more tweak and more time. 

One thing for sure, typically most of the tactics from the community are geared towards big/semi-big teams, so I was not expecting magic when I started my save in lower league. But I'd say, whatever the goals I have scored are very beautiful and eye-pleasing and I can say with good teams/players this tactic will shine.

[WhyMe]

I had a lot of success with a 3-4-2-1 in FM23 and based on that experience I would expect you to have a couple of problems firstly a lack of a goal threat/penetration if your striker gets marked out the game and secondly a lot of congestion in the middle of the park leading to either pointless possession that doesn't go anywhere until someone gets fed up and takes a pot shot or a low quality chance.

There are lots of options to try and mitigate this if it happening but my two main suggestions would be drop the 2 CMs back into the DM strata, this would also allow you to swap the DLP up to support (or make him a DM-s with hold position and creative PIs).

I would also increase the duty of the left wing back and right AMC to attack and the left WCB to support (in some games you may need to drop the DLP back to defend if you find the left flank a bit too attacking).

Like I said there are lots of other ways you could improve penetration/goal threat but this would be my starting point

[Arijit]

4 hours ago, WhyMe said:

I would expect you to have a couple of problems firstly a lack of a goal threat/penetration if your striker gets marked out the game and secondly a lot of congestion in the middle of the park leading to either pointless possession that doesn't go anywhere until someone gets fed up and takes a pot shot or a low quality chance.

This is exactly happening to me. I am always having less of xG against my opponents, even if I win the match. 

Right now at work, but I've a plan for a few hours of FM session tonight. I'll try your suggestion.

[Arijit]

@WhyMe Thank you man. Your advice worked. I have changed my above tactic slightly based on your suggestion. 

• Moved CMs to DMs position.
• Made AM more attack minded.
• I don't play LWB in attack minded in every match, only against weaker teams. I am little bit defensive in my first season.

And I played 6 games afterwards. I won 4 of them and although it's very weak team now (I am in my first season), I'd say the xG and possession and clear cut chances are definitely improved. If I get some better players next season, this can help me a lot.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Arijit

[Mik_Fe]

Beautiful guys…

so, your test is important for me..

CM to DM is a good option, i think that the best option is DLP-S and BWM-S, and change CAM from support to attack..

so, i think that WCB to Support i dont like, i prefer this setting..

@Arijit you change only CM to DM  and the duty of CAM correct?

@WhyMe did you think that Team Instruction and Players Instruction is correct? Or there are all ok?

only change DM and CAM-Att?

in your opinion is better if i put slightly narrow TI and not Narrow?

thanks guys..

[Arijit]

14 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

@Arijit you change only CM to DM  and the duty of CAM correct?

I moved both CM to DM position. Left one changed to DLP(su) and Right one to BWM(su). I put both WBRs to stay wider too. Now my Forward and 2 AMCs were attacking the goal and 2WBRs were feeding the crosses along with DLP was pulling some amazing through balls from middle of the field.

I will say, it took 10/12 matches to make the tactic click. Once all the familiarity pointers hit Fluid and Position/Role/Duty reached to Competent, my team's performance upped few notches.

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Arijit
image will resized

[Mik_Fe]

I like your changes.. did you try LWB in support and WCB in defense also?

did you change some Pi instruction?

beacuse i think sometimes that i put “stay wider” at AP and AM.. 

with your changes did you think that the tactic is complete?

[WhyMe]

3 hours ago, Mik_Fe said:

Beautiful guys…

so, your test is important for me..

CM to DM is a good option, i think that the best option is DLP-S and BWM-S, and change CAM from support to attack..

so, i think that WCB to Support i dont like, i prefer this setting..

@Arijit you change only CM to DM  and the duty of CAM correct?

@WhyMe did you think that Team Instruction and Players Instruction is correct? Or there are all ok?

only change DM and CAM-Att?

in your opinion is better if i put slightly narrow TI and not Narrow?

thanks guys..

I tend not to play narrow when using a formation that is already narrow unless facing a flat 4-4-2 which has gaping holes in the middle to exploit.  I usually leave it as default or slightly wider if I see my players getting in each others way.  However, I don't have FM24 yet and I suspect there is a lot of potential for positional transitions feature in the match engine in this formation.  But not having tried it yet I'm reluctant to offer any advice as there would be a good chance it would be rubbish.

 

Other instructions wise nothing looks crazy, you seem to be setting up to play progressive possession football with a medium press.  The only thing I'd keep an eye on is the two transition instructions, counter press might not be very effective with a bottom heavy formation and only 3 players in the front line and no one to press the fullbacks (easy out ball to play round the press).  It might be ok, particularly if you end up camping with your wingbacks high up the pitch, but against better opposition it could be a problem.  Similarly with counter (though less so) you are playing possession football so against some opposition it might just end up with you losing the ball and not really helping.  Most of the time it is probably a good thing, but might be worth keeping an eye on.

[Mik_Fe]

ok.. great..

I think your thoughts about transition ticks make sense, I try not to use transition ticks.
In your opinion, would it be a wrong thing to set "stay wide" to the two attacking midfielders by removing the move into channel option?

Could you post me your tactical idea that you had in '23, so that we can compare and maybe exchange some more opinions on it?

[WhyMe]

I got FM24 today and loaded up my FM23 save and gave the tactic a whirl to see if it still worked.  I had to modify it slightly to take account of the positional play side of things (the AP was often an Engache and the AF usually a PF-a in the original, but I saw in Rashidi's post about positional play the Eng doesn't rotate positionally).

 

Once I made these changes it was fine and created good chances and was defensively solid still.  You will note that I do have the two transition instructions on, but I tended to turn CP off against top teams and Counter off against teams that were leaving no space to counter into (i.e. super defensive ones) if my possession was low and I wasn't creating chances.

Anyway hope this helps.

 

[Lennnn]

3 hours ago, WhyMe said:

I got FM24 today and loaded up my FM23 save and gave the tactic a whirl to see if it still worked.  I had to modify it slightly to take account of the positional play side of things (the AP was often an Engache and the AF usually a PF-a in the original, but I saw in Rashidi's post about positional play the Eng doesn't rotate positionally).

 

Once I made these changes it was fine and created good chances and was defensively solid still.  You will note that I do have the two transition instructions on, but I tended to turn CP off against top teams and Counter off against teams that were leaving no space to counter into (i.e. super defensive ones) if my possession was low and I wasn't creating chances.

Anyway hope this helps.

 

@WhyMe This is amazing. What PI do you use and any OIs?

[WhyMe]

Just a few:

DM-s hold position

AP-s Roam from position

Vol-A Move into channels

The right wingback is on auto specifically because its the only wing back role that doesn't have gets further forward.  I did occasionally add stays wider to him depending on opposition formation (i.e. if narrow formation with space to take advantage of on the flanks) but not all the time.

[Arijit]

On 05/11/2023 at 12:38, Mik_Fe said:

I like your changes.. did you try LWB in support and WCB in defense also?

did you change some Pi instruction?

beacuse i think sometimes that i put “stay wider” at AP and AM.. 

with your changes did you think that the tactic is complete?

I put WCB in defend mode. I now noticed it somehow switched to Support mode. Maybe I mistakenly changed it during player changes, but I believe it's for couple of matches only. I definitely use WCB-Defend.

[Arijit]

On 06/11/2023 at 12:43, WhyMe said:

I got FM24 today and loaded up my FM23 save and gave the tactic a whirl to see if it still worked.  I had to modify it slightly to take account of the positional play side of things (the AP was often an Engache and the AF usually a PF-a in the original, but I saw in Rashidi's post about positional play the Eng doesn't rotate positionally).

 

Once I made these changes it was fine and created good chances and was defensively solid still.  You will note that I do have the two transition instructions on, but I tended to turn CP off against top teams and Counter off against teams that were leaving no space to counter into (i.e. super defensive ones) if my possession was low and I wasn't creating chances.

Anyway hope this helps.

 

Thanks for coming back with an update. I will definitely continue with this tactic in FM24 . I will keep your suggestions in mind.

[Mik_Fe]

12 ore fa, Arijit ha scritto:

I put WCB in defend mode. I now noticed it somehow switched to Support mode. Maybe I mistakenly changed it during player changes, but I believe it's for couple of matches only. I definitely use WCB-Defend.

Great… WCB-Defense and WB-Support i think… or in attack?

[Arijit]

24 minutes ago, Mik_Fe said:

Great… WCB-Defense and WB-Support i think… or in attack?

Right.

WBLsu - DLPsu - BWMsu - WBRsu

WCBde - CDde - WCBde

 

My main CB (Drudi) is very old, even for Serie C. I am already scouting a replacement for him, I will go for BPD next season, will see how it goes.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Arijit

[Mik_Fe]

Yes great… the central defender it s better if is a BPD…

thank you for your feedback…

if i understaid correclty, you don t change any players instruction correct??

i mean from default tactic that i ve posted.

[Arijit]

1 hour ago, Mik_Fe said:

if i understaid correclty, you don t change any players instruction correct??

 

No, I didn't. 

[Mik_Fe]

Super!!!

thanks for your feedback… now i do some matches, like 10/15… and i make a decision.. if i see something that dont work or other..

 

[Mik_Fe]

@WhyMe did you use a 3 back defenders tactic now? like the tactic in your photo in this thread?

 @Arijit did you use now this tactic? this 3421? did you have some feedback?

 

[WhyMe]

I am using a 3ATB formation yes, but I made a new one for FM24 as I wanted to play around with the new options with positional play.  I am currently using a 3-4-3 WB system which attempts to morph into a 2-2-4-2 double pivot system in attack.  I was considering doing a thread on it as its been getting good results and some nice football but I am struggling to get the striker and primary wide forward to fire quite as effectively as I would like, pretty good but not quite there yet.

[Mik_Fe]

8 minuti fa, WhyMe ha scritto:

I am using a 3ATB formation yes, but I made a new one for FM24 as I wanted to play around with the new options with positional play.  I am currently using a 3-4-3 WB system which attempts to morph into a 2-2-4-2 double pivot system in attack.  I was considering doing a thread on it as its been getting good results and some nice football but I am struggling to get the striker and primary wide forward to fire quite as effectively as I would like, pretty good but not quite there yet.

yes.. u Open thread.. i follow with pleasure..

[Arijit]

8 hours ago, Mik_Fe said:

 

 @Arijit did you use now this tactic? this 3421? did you have some feedback?

 

Yes, I am using the same tactic still. I never used 3atBack tactic before seriously. This is the first time I have used it fully for 2 seasons. I have become fan of the tactic. Overall I tweak few things here and there only during matches, but main tactic is still same.

My win% is currently about 55%, which is very good in my opinion as I am running a LLM save and it's difficult for me to get very good players fitting my team and plan. So I have lost few matches. hopefully in couple of more seasons, I will be able to get promotion to Serie B and will be able to attract better players.

[Mik_Fe]

good good.. I return to write in this post after many games and after many tests (considering the current ME).
So the start of this tactic was the one we talked about above, therefore 4231 with the midfielders and the AM in attack, as mentioned by other users, I will now post the current tactic tested with Leverkusen for two seasons:

Ok, that's it... but I want to tell you how these two seasons went with Leverkusen, I'll do a little analysis with the results obtained.

 

Season 1

 

First season and I win UEL and DFB Pokal, third place in Bundesliga and these are the results of the season 1:

 

Season 2

 

In second season we have fewer goals conceded, more clean sheets and fewer shots conceded, therefore an excellent defensive phase!

 

Into transfer window not a lot of new players in first season:

and in second season:

And now some stats, I want to analyze with you these statistics of goals conceded and goals scored. PS: if you need other stats just ask...

I am happy with these conclusions and I wanted to share all these statistics with you to better understand what to analyze and how to improve it further.

Thank you for reading..

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Mik_Fe

[juan6one]

Great stuff mate. Been looking for a tactic setup like this all week. Its working really well for me atm.  Have you had to tweak anything since the latest patch?

[Mik_Fe]

Hi Big Bro!! no.. nothing changes.. when I find a balance of this tactic (I mean what I post above) I leave all and I will put my attention in a career with Man Utd to create a DNA club for possession football (I mean, I want became only team in Manchester to build a squad based to possess football.. it s hard considering our cousins in Manchester, but it s Football Manager  ) I f i find time, i try to continue this career and post some advice for this tactic.. did you try this tactic? what are your opinion or your comments?