Unity changes and Football Manager 2025

[DPM128]

Unity has announced some new changes to their pricing model that are a bit surprising. It is adding a fee based on each individual installation. This includes reinstalling the game as well.

 

Does this change anything with the plans for developing FM25 in Unity? At the very least I imagine it throws a wrench in the revenue estimates.

 

According to the previous article announcing the FM changes, they had over 5 million players. This means it could be as little as a $50,000 fee or as high as a $1,000,000 fee assuming one single install per user.

 

While this is not a large fee for a company of this size, the randomness of it might give them a pause to potentially using Unity as a development platform. Especially since this could potentially be used by malicious actors to attempt to punish SI.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/unity-will-start-charging-developers-each-time-their-game-is-installed-214851801.html

[BML]

They're starting to roll back on it already, which is good in a way, but does imply they'll probably go back on this sometime again in future.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten

[wazzaflow10]

6 hours ago, BML said:

They're starting to roll back on it already, which is good in a way, but does imply they'll probably go back on this sometime again in future.

https://www.axios.com/2023/09/13/unity-runtime-fee-policy-marc-whitten

Yeah I can't see major game developers allowing this to happen at all. They struggle to turn a profit even on popular games. Don't see how they're going to enforce it and limit "install bombing". Sounds like typical CEO nonsense trying to squeeze every last drop of blood from a stone.

Also SI probably negotiated their terms already. It might affect them at contract renewals but I doubt it would have an effect on the current development cycle. Don't think a good lawyer would allow Unity to change the terms like that especially given how recently they would have purchased the license. That'd be negotiating on unity's terms in bad faith, especially if something like this was known/in the works prior to the contract being initiated/signed.

I also don't see how developers would allow old games to have this placed in their code. So this all sounds like the beginning of the end for unity to me if they don't roll it back all the way.

[Tony Wright 747]

With SI putting all their eggs in the Unity basket, is this going to cause problems in years to come.  I hope not, just when there are potentially big improvements on the horizon

[angelo994]

Honesty, it’s not good. It’s very concerning as Unity as a platform may be dead soon. I can’t see this working out well. I agree that it probably won’t effect FM25 but I don’t think we can say for sure if it’ll have any impact on future games. It’s not a good sign. 

[danielgear]

It says it mainly affects the free tier, SI won’t be on the free tier 

[Dotsworthy]

The unity news feels like a play. Announce an egregious policy change that has everyone up in arms for a few days and then backpedal to a smaller change that might still be bad, but now looks reasonable compared to the original one.

Unity will probably shoehorn in some kind of royalty system, but their is no way they can get away with an install fee.

Edited September 14, 2023 by Dotsworthy

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, Dotsworthy said:

The unity news feels like a play. Announce an egregious policy change that has everyone up in arms for a few days and then backpedal to a smaller change that might still be bad, but now looks reasonable compared to the original one.

Unity will probably shoehorn in some kind of royalty system, but their is no way they can get away with an install fee.

If enough people kick up a stink about it, Unity will almost certainly change course.

Waves Audio, who produce a vast number of very popular plugins for music production software, recently announced a change in their pricing model in that you could no longer buy a single plugin for a one-off cost (which would also come with a year's updates - you'd have to then buy an update plan if you wanted updates beyond the first year from purchase).  Rather, to use any Waves plugins you didn't already own, you would have to go for their monthly subscription of $25 per month, which would come with every single plugin, but if you stopped paying you'd lose access to all the plugins you didn't already have a perpetual licence for.

It was an absolute PR disaster for Waves.  There was a massive stink kicked up.  Many people swore to never use a Waves product ever again, even the ones they already owned a perpetual licence for.

Waves did a complete u-turn and within days of announcing the switch to the subscription-only model, they confirmed they'd be bringing back the option to buy perpetual licences and have the subscription thing as an option for those who wanted it.

https://musictech.com/news/industry/waves-subscription-only-u-turn-licenses/

I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of similar u-turn from Unity if enough people kick up a big enough stink.

[RinusFM]

People could easily bankrupt SI games or any other dev using Unity. Create a bot/script that unistalls/installs the game. Every time it's 20 cent. Imagine lots of people doing this. Yes, bankrupt, lol. Hope for the devs around the world unity will indeed change their policy.

[kevhamster]

1 hour ago, RinusFM said:

People could easily bankrupt SI games or any other dev using Unity. Create a bot/script that unistalls/installs the game. Every time it's 20 cent. Imagine lots of people doing this. Yes, bankrupt, lol. Hope for the devs around the world unity will indeed change their policy.

Unity have since backpedalled to a degree in that multiple installs on the same device wouldn't be charged each time, only for the first install, but a player downloading game on two different PC's would mean 2 install fees.

From the perspective of even someone who's not a developer, changing their fundamental T&Cs in this manner screams extremely bad faith to me.  

[Iggy Hassan]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-66810296

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, Iggy Hassan said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-66810296

It would be interesting to hear SI's take on this

[Dagenham_Dave]

12 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

The unity news feels like a play. Announce an egregious policy change that has everyone up in arms for a few days and then backpedal to a smaller change that might still be bad, but now looks reasonable compared to the original one.

 

Thats would be an awful business strategy given the majority of businesses trade on reputation. 

[Woodmansee]

Feels bad man.

[kevhamster]

Statement from Kinetic Games, developer of Phasmophobia which is one of my other favourite games and also happens to use Unity:

Link to tweet: 

 

[Tony Wright 747]

Statement from SI ???????

[kevhamster]

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Statement from SI ???????

I'm sure that will follow. 

[alian62]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

It would be interesting to hear SI's take on this

Majority of the developers wouldn't be affected so what's the issue ? It's aimed at low end users obviously.  

[santy001]

There's no reason for a statement from SI on this. It's a business decision they will take just like the many other business decisions they take year in, year out without putting statement's on. 

[kevhamster]

48 minutes ago, santy001 said:

There's no reason for a statement from SI on this. It's a business decision they will take just like the many other business decisions they take year in, year out without putting statement's on. 

It depends really. If, like the vast majority of developers who have commented so far, SI don't agree with the stance Unity have taken (and there's every chance of this if it's going to affect SI's bottom line), lending their voice to the argument may help make Unity sit up and listen. SI are a big name with a game which tops the PC charts every year. The more big names speak out, the more pressure it puts on Unity. 

[Novem9]

39 минут назад, kevhamster сказал:

It depends really. If, like the vast majority of developers who have commented so far, SI don't agree with the stance Unity have taken (and there's every chance of this if it's going to affect SI's bottom line), lending their voice to the argument may help make Unity sit up and listen. SI are a big name with a game which tops the PC charts every year. The more big names speak out, the more pressure it puts on Unity. 

Don't forget that there are indie developers, literally independent ones. And SI is part of SEGA, so this decision cannot be made separately.

What SI probably regrets is the announcement on the Unity engine. And it's sad because they are very private guys, and this incident will probably make them completely silent.

[Gangor]

My guess is they're working out if it's too late to migrate FM25 to a new engine before making a statement.

[DivineOne]

For those that say that SI won't be affected by this:

Technically, you are correct. However, this is about trust. They are now working with a partner that clearly can't be trusted. 

[Hzano123]

7 hours ago, DivineOne said:

For those that say that SI won't be affected by this:

Technically, you are correct. However, this is about trust. They are now working with a partner that clearly can't be trusted. 

Yup just like this guy said do you really trust a company  ( as your partner) that

1. Potentially involve with Insider Trading

3. Their CEO is an ex EA employee that have bad rep already

2. Changing their TOS on the fly and find a dodgy way to cover that up? 

 

SI will surely think hard about this. But overall this is some nice drama 😂

Edited September 15, 2023 by Hzano123

[EvilWolf1980]

I came to post this exact thing 

John Riccitiello is the head of unity.

if you dont know who he is he was in charge of EA during its worst time ever. 

he is the one who tried to charge players simply for reloading their gun in COD. 

John Riccitiello, current CEO of Unity and then CEO of EA, proposed a model where players in online multiplayer shooters (such as Battlefield) who ran out of ammo could make an easy instant real money payment for a quick reload.

if he manages to get his hands into and ruin Football Manager I will stop buying it I have been buying it every yearfor 20 years if you count championship manager 2003 my first game.

I said that I would stop buying fifa games and I stuck to that I stopped buying FIFA and all other EA SPORTS GAMES. just because of this guy. 

if I have to boycot unity and all its products I will do. 

[phantombandit]

well this is going to be fun to watch

Edited September 15, 2023 by phantombandit

[Novem9]

22 часа назад, EvilWolf1980 сказал:

he is the one who tried to charge players simply for reloading their gun in COD.

man of great imagination 

[Birnir Snær]

I am not a developer, but the disgusting greed on display by unity, would influence my purchasing decision of any game using its engine.

[Federico]

It seems they're going to "reword" their initial statement about the new Unity policy:

 

[wazzaflow10]

4 hours ago, Federico said:

It seems they're going to "reword" their initial statement about the new Unity policy:

 

That's a "we forgot we sold to corporations not people and therefore actually cannot f*** companies over like they're consumers. We've gotten a ton of threatening phone calls from lawyers and now need to come up with a way to legalese our way out of this mess to implement this new policy. We'll share an update microsoft, nintendo, and sony stop smacking us around for being complete morons."

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by wazzaflow10

[Swindon69]

Another issue with what Unity were proposing is the fact they can't actually track the actual installs and were going to bill on a 'trust me bro' basis.

[toolkit68]

This is not something unheard of and a common thing in corporate business. There are always 'uncertain' income streams or costs that cant be calculated precisely on a budget. That is why one calculates overheads and keeps security funds for these. Discussing something here that I am sure SI has already thought about is kind of pointless unless you know more about the SI books than their financial director

[Iggy Hassan]

On 19/09/2023 at 10:14, Federico said:

It seems they're going to "reword" their initial statement about the new Unity policy:

 

They knew exactly what they were doing and worded it fine. They were after making more money but it's completely backfired. What a complete PR & marketing disaster. Now they are trying to backpedal.