Team talks need to be nerfed

[busngabb]

Teamtalks ruining the game for me at the moment. It's just not enjoyable. I get that modern players are frail human beings at the best of times, but it's beyond a joke how many goals go in between 45-50 minutes. It just feels like all the options you have available are there to trip you up, just to varying degrees. It's particularly potent when you are winning a game at half time. 1-0 up away in a game you should win comfortably, say 'don't get complacent' and it's like clubbing them over the head with an emotional brick. The opposition shoot off like they've got firecrackers up their shorts and before you know it the ball is in your net. It's the same with praising them. The reaction of players to being told they're playing well is just ridiculous. If you're 4-0 at home to City in a game you're not expected to win and you tell them you're happy, it'll be 4-3 by the 50th minute. You can get some positive reactions the other way when you're not doing well, but it's virtually impossible to continue a good performance after half time, at best you can sustain the scoreline or add one in the second half. You can't leave it to your assistant either, as even with 20 attributes for motivating and the like, you'll still be hiding behind the couch until the deadly five minutes is over.

You just don't see this kind of mad reactions in games in real life. Teamtalks will have an impact in real life and should in the game. But it should be a case of it upping the quality of the effort or the overall performance over the half, not the gaming equivalent of being slapped in the face for the first five minutes of the second half.

There should also be contextual links to it too. If you're winning a game you aren't favourites for, praising the players shouldn't be a big negative. If you're winning a game you should, telling them not to be complacent and concentrate shouldn't offend them. The more extreme reactions, like throwing the water bottle and hammering them should potentially have more of a noticable impact if it doesn't reflect either the score vs expectations or the general flow of the game. I.e drawing a game you should be winning, but your XG is miles higher, hammering them should get a bad reaction, but being 2-0 down and playing terribly it shouldn't.

 

[enigmatic]

You do realise you have opponents and they can do things to change the game too, right?

 

 

[busngabb]

15 hours ago, enigmatic said:

You do realise you have opponents and they can do things to change the game too, right?

 

 

Yes, of course. But it shouldn't be so extreme. Games are rarely extremely different directly after the break. Yet on the game it's madness between 45-50 minutes. An inspirational teamtalk from a manager or coach can lift a team and it can change the course of a game, but more subtly than the team just shooting round like pinballs for the first five minutes of the second half. It's like the team talk only impacts those minutes and once it's past that it settles down to the usual flow of the game.

[Furmanbp]

On 09/08/2023 at 17:14, busngabb said:

Teamtalks ruining the game for me at the moment. It's just not enjoyable. I get that modern players are frail human beings at the best of times, but it's beyond a joke how many goals go in between 45-50 minutes. It just feels like all the options you have available are there to trip you up, just to varying degrees. It's particularly potent when you are winning a game at half time. 1-0 up away in a game you should win comfortably, say 'don't get complacent' and it's like clubbing them over the head with an emotional brick. The opposition shoot off like they've got firecrackers up their shorts and before you know it the ball is in your net. It's the same with praising them. The reaction of players to being told they're playing well is just ridiculous. If you're 4-0 at home to City in a game you're not expected to win and you tell them you're happy, it'll be 4-3 by the 50th minute. You can get some positive reactions the other way when you're not doing well, but it's virtually impossible to continue a good performance after half time, at best you can sustain the scoreline or add one in the second half. You can't leave it to your assistant either, as even with 20 attributes for motivating and the like, you'll still be hiding behind the couch until the deadly five minutes is over.

You just don't see this kind of mad reactions in games in real life. Teamtalks will have an impact in real life and should in the game. But it should be a case of it upping the quality of the effort or the overall performance over the half, not the gaming equivalent of being slapped in the face for the first five minutes of the second half.

There should also be contextual links to it too. If you're winning a game you aren't favourites for, praising the players shouldn't be a big negative. If you're winning a game you should, telling them not to be complacent and concentrate shouldn't offend them. The more extreme reactions, like throwing the water bottle and hammering them should potentially have more of a noticable impact if it doesn't reflect either the score vs expectations or the general flow of the game. I.e drawing a game you should be winning, but your XG is miles higher, hammering them should get a bad reaction, but being 2-0 down and playing terribly it shouldn't.

 

Lol and I am thinking for last couple of years that team talk does not do anything at all. I guess we have completely different experience in that term. 

[busngabb]

1 minute ago, Furmanbp said:

Lol and I am thinking for last couple of years that team talk does not do anything at all. I guess we have completely different experience in that term. 

The impact is huge, but only really seems to impact the first 5/10 minutes of the second half. I'd rather be drawing at half time than winning, put it that way as you can slam them with the 'I'm not happy with your performance' and you won't get any negatives. If you're winning at half time in a game you should be winning, there doesn't seem to be an option that isn't a self-mutilation of some sort, especially if you're hammering them. If you're winning a game you shouldn't be, there's also a horrible choice between saying you're happy (Huge detriment to the outcome), saying don't be complacent (Massively upsets the players that have played well and almost guarantees a goal in the first five minutes of the second half) or choosing one of the random, meaningless ones and hoping it isn't going to drop a grenade on your team's fragile morale.

[wazzaflow10]

On 12/08/2023 at 15:59, busngabb said:

The impact is huge, but only really seems to impact the first 5/10 minutes of the second half. I'd rather be drawing at half time than winning, put it that way as you can slam them with the 'I'm not happy with your performance' and you won't get any negatives. If you're winning at half time in a game you should be winning, there doesn't seem to be an option that isn't a self-mutilation of some sort, especially if you're hammering them. If you're winning a game you shouldn't be, there's also a horrible choice between saying you're happy (Huge detriment to the outcome), saying don't be complacent (Massively upsets the players that have played well and almost guarantees a goal in the first five minutes of the second half) or choosing one of the random, meaningless ones and hoping it isn't going to drop a grenade on your team's fragile morale.

I've gone back to FM21 and often use the you're playing well keep it up with a cautious gesture at half time if they've played well only for them to play even better in the second half. Especially for games that are close where we've dominated but not run away with the score. Lots of times when you're struggling to finish chances your players are feeling the pressure. Encouraging them at halftime, especially after challenging them to start the game will help them relax. Giving them the hair dryer repeatedly will make it useless when you really need it. 

Also don't forget, if you've dominated in the first half the other manager is likely going to give them the same treatment you would if you were down 2-0. So its natural that they might come out flying and more aggressive. We'd all be on here complaining team talks have no effect if we just gave them the hair dryer and the first 5-15 mins of a half was more of the same.

Have you tried dropping your mentality by one/unticking gg press/playing more direct/pass into space after the break to weather the storm? You can likely hit them on the break much more easily during this period and that will probably kill off the game for you and negate their team talk effect.  

[enigmatic]

On 12/08/2023 at 00:39, busngabb said:

Yes, of course. But it shouldn't be so extreme. Games are rarely extremely different directly after the break. Yet on the game it's madness between 45-50 minutes. An inspirational teamtalk from a manager or coach can lift a team and it can change the course of a game, but more subtly than the team just shooting round like pinballs for the first five minutes of the second half. It's like the team talk only impacts those minutes and once it's past that it settles down to the usual flow of the game.

Quick look at my last opened save shows no goals conceded at all between 45 and 50 minutes, and only 4 in the 10 minutes after half time. So much for the madness!

(and no, I'm not doing anything other than the obvious teamtalks, and my defence is good but nothing remarkable)

If your team actually is unable to defend against sides coming out after the break, that's probably on you to fix not SI

 

[themadsheep2001]

Yeah the impact of team talk isnt very big and it doesnt last very long at all

[Mst82]

I can’t say I’ve ever had any noticeable issues with this but am certainly going to pay attention from now on!

FTM

[busngabb]

On 14/08/2023 at 19:19, themadsheep2001 said:

Yeah the impact of team talk isnt very big and it doesnt last very long at all

It is very big. You can almost guarantee a goal by choosing certain options.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, busngabb said:

It is very big. You can almost guarantee a goal by choosing certain options.

 

This is factually incorrect. SI have previously stated the effect is minor and lasts for approximately 5 or so minutes. They arent going to nerf it because there's nothing to nerf. 

[busngabb]

On 14/08/2023 at 17:00, enigmatic said:

If your team actually is unable to defend against sides coming out after the break, that's probably on you to fix not SI

 

The old classic blind support of the game, 'it's your tactics'. I don't see how goals conceded 14 seconds after the restart can be blamed on tactics.

To me there are instances where all of the options bring negative responses and some are just morale grenades, such as saying don't be complacent when winning a game you are favourites for, or saying you are happy and keep it up when you're winning unexpectedly.

[enigmatic]

11 hours ago, busngabb said:

The old classic blind support of the game, 'it's your tactics'. I don't see how goals conceded 14 seconds after the restart can be blamed on tactics.

To me there are instances where all of the options bring negative responses and some are just morale grenades, such as saying don't be complacent when winning a game you are favourites for, or saying you are happy and keep it up when you're winning unexpectedly.

The old classic "I'm experiencing a problem that other people don't. SI must change their approach!"

I'm pretty sure tactics and team selection affect goals conceded 14 seconds after the restart