Initial heavy physical boot camp pre-season training - How to optimize it (details please)?

[danej]

So, what is a good way to do this part?

 

IIRC, the single source that I appreciate the most, BustTheNet/Rashidi/Daljit thinks one should do such a regime for at least the first 1-2 weeks of pre-season.

 

However, I am uncertain when it comes to the details, how to min max this.

 

Questions:

1. For how many days should you do a boot camp/heavy physical training regime? I think that pre-season pretty much always starts on a Monday. So, for how long? Untill Sunday week 1? Sunday week 2?
2. Along the same lines, when should you play your first friendly? Saturday week 2 for instance? Something else?
3. Should you stop boot camp training after the first friendly match? After the second match? Something else?

 

Input regarding these questions, as well as regarding other relevant similar aspects, is greatly appreciated.

[Cloud9]

On 28/07/2023 at 03:37, danej said:

So, what is a good way to do this part?

 

IIRC, the single source that I appreciate the most, BustTheNet/Rashidi/Daljit thinks one should do such a regime for at least the first 1-2 weeks of pre-season.

 

However, I am uncertain when it comes to the details, how to min max this.

 

Questions:

1. For how many days should you do a boot camp/heavy physical training regime? I think that pre-season pretty much always starts on a Monday. So, for how long? Untill Sunday week 1? Sunday week 2?
2. Along the same lines, when should you play your first friendly? Saturday week 2 for instance? Something else?
3. Should you stop boot camp training after the first friendly match? After the second match? Something else?

 

Input regarding these questions, as well as regarding other relevant similar aspects, is greatly appreciated.

I go really hard on physical training for the first few weeks of bootcamp.

You will play friendlies throughout to build match fitness/team cohesion. You then transition to a more general, if still demanding phase of preseason training where you add in a few more matches to make sure they're ready to start. In terms of how many friendlys, the minimum to make sure they arrive match fit at the start of the season. The last transition is to taper it back so they're ready to hit the ground running. 

Err on the side of pushing them harder in pre-season, just make sure you're not picking up injuries. Adding in "rest" in the schedule is still important, running the players into the ground entirely will be counter productive to development. A strong pre-season will see your team not only fighting fit when the season kicks off, but also able to sustain their fitness levels over the course of the year.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Cloud9

[danej]

2 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I go really hard on physical training for the first few weeks of bootcamp.

You will play friendlies throughout to build match fitness/team cohesion. You then transition to a more general, if still demanding phase of preseason training where you add in a few more matches to make sure they're ready to start. In terms of how many friendlys, the minimum to make sure they arrive match fit at the start of the season. The last transition is to taper it back so they're ready to hit the ground running. 

Err on the side of pushing them harder in pre-season, just make sure you're not picking up injuries. Adding in "rest" in the schedule is still important, running the players into the ground entirely will be counter productive to development. A strong pre-season will see your team not only fighting fit when the season kicks off, but also able to sustain their fitness levels over the course of the year.

Interesting, thanks.

I wonder what Daljit/Rashidi does specifically. In one of this FM23 videos he says pretty much like you, do heavy physical pre-season training at least two weeks. However, in another video he seems to only do a boot camp training regime for the first week.

In any case, in my experience it is impossible to avoid a fair amount of moderate to major injuries with a heavy physical training regime, even if only for 1-2 weeks. The injury prone players are at major risk. In my most recent save with Man Utd, Luke Glass Legs Shaw broke his ankle during the first week and was out for three months. Something similar usually happens for me. On average I would say that around 3-4 first team players get injured for at least a couple of weeks during the first two weeks of heavy physical pre-season training.

However, I guess it is still worth it. That still makes at least 80% of the players making it through this phase without getting injured, or only for a few days.

By the way, I don't use any weird training regime for this initial phase. Just the preset heavy early schedule.

[Rashidi]

My videos are meant to be a safer approach, most people panic when they see me stream. I do heavy preseason training all weeks except the final week when they play their first competitive game.  
 

I doubt anyone can remember a single player being seriously injured. Small knocks and a week out don’t count. 

[danej]

22 hours ago, Rashidi said:

My videos are meant to be a safer approach, most people panic when they see me stream. I do heavy preseason training all weeks except the final week when they play their first competitive game.  
 

I doubt anyone can remember a single player being seriously injured. Small knocks and a week out don’t count. 

Thanks for the clarification, this is very helpful.

 

By the way, I am curious as to how our experience with injuries is so different. Even with just two weeks of heavy physical pre-season training which has been my standard so far (I'll probably change it according to your tip), I would think that on average I get three 2+ weeks injuries, about one of those injuries being 4+ weeks.

 

I guess it is a random thing. Or because I almost always play short saves and stick to the original squad. And that I often have a few injury prone players in the first team squad, like the mentioned Luke Shaw with Man Utd. I haven't kept track, but I think the injury prone players are much more likely to pick up moderate to major injuries during a heavy physical training period, compared to non-injury prone players.

Edited July 31, 2023 by danej

[Cloud9]

11 hours ago, danej said:

Thanks for the clarification, this is very helpful.

 

By the way, I am curious as to how our experience with injuries are so different. Even with just two weeks of heavy physical pre-season training which has been my standard so far (I'll probably change it according to your tip), I would think that on average I get three 2+ weeks injuries, about one of those injuries being 4+ weeks.

 

I guess it is a random thing. Or because I almost always play short saves and stick to the original squad. And that I often have a few injury prone players in the first team squad, like the mentioned Luke Shaw with Man Utd. I haven't kept track, but I think the injury prone players are much more likely to pick up moderate to major injuries during a heavy physical training period, compared to non-injury prone players.

Will take some trial and error. Injury prone players should be sold if you're not up for micro managing them I think. Can be a real problem for your team.

• If you're picking up big injuries on non injury prone players in pre-season I would think it's more than just bad luck. Just try to make adjustments season to season and you will start to feel more comfortable with it.
• If your team is seemingly running out of gas after Christmas, pushing the pre-season is a good idea. This is pretty noticeable symptom where your form quite literally falls off a cliff for seemingly no reason (esp important if you're in Europe or in lower league football where the schedule is relentless). 

On training in general this year: Match Practice & the Blue Defending (and Attacking to a slightly lesser extent) are important to incorporate into your schedules. 

• I find players aged 21-24 to be really good indicators of the squad rotation/training schedules ticking over well. If you have that group improving consistently, you're doing things nicely  

Edited July 31, 2023 by Cloud9

[Rashidi]

On 31/07/2023 at 08:05, Cloud9 said:

If your team is seemingly running out of gas after Christmas, pushing the pre-season is a good idea. This is pretty noticeable symptom where your form quite literally falls off a cliff for seemingly no reason (esp important if you're in Europe or in lower league football where the schedule is relentless). 

If this happens it’s 100% down to a poor pre-season.

[nick1408]

1 hour ago, Rashidi said:

If this happens it’s 100% down to a poor pre-season.

What constitutes a good pre-season? I use your Boot Camp schedule for a week then the rest of your schedules as per your training video so I assume that is a good pre-season but I was wondering in general what is good (or bad).

[bosque]

1 hour ago, nick1408 said:

What constitutes a good pre-season? I use your Boot Camp schedule for a week then the rest of your schedules as per your training video so I assume that is a good pre-season but I was wondering in general what is good (or bad).

Yes, I came to ask the same questions because I never know if I'm doing a good job during pre-season.

[danej]

@nick1408 and @bosque, Rashidi gave his input on this already, see above. If I understand him correctly, he thinks that the best course is to train boot camp style for the entire pre-season except for the week where you play your first important match. I think his idea is good, he is usually spot on. Besides, I have never seen anyone argue convincingly for another approach.

 

If you want to spend more time optimizing, you could micro manage injury prone players, occasionally lowering their training intensity if needed. For most of us it might be too much work for too little gain though. As Rashidi/Daljit one time pointed out to me during a live disussion on Twitch. And I think he is right.

[Prolix]

How do you quantify or observe the effects of pre-season training? In other words, how does the game tell you the sustained fitness you've attained on a player by player basis?

Edited August 6, 2023 by Prolix

[danej]

Interesting experiene regarding this topic. Just finished my first season since beginning to experiment more with pre-season training. See pic below.

Form was excellent up untill April. Then it totally tanked. Cost me the Premier League title.

In theory this could be because I only did two weeks of heavy physical pre-season training. Enough to keep up the form untill April, but not enough to last the entire season?

Although it could be random as well. Not a big sample, and an absurdly congested fixture list during that time, 18 matches during April and May.

Btw the 0-3 defeat vs. Aston Villa should be disregarded, I fielded the U18 team for that match since there was nothing to play for.

 

[Rashidi]

On 06/08/2023 at 09:21, Prolix said:

How do you quantify or observe the effects of pre-season training? In other words, how does the game tell you the sustained fitness you've attained on a player by player basis?

There is no quantification or objective message that appears telling u ur players have benefitted from aggressive preseason training. What you might notice is no one gets jaded in winter and very few players need extended periods of rest towards the tail end of the season.  
 

It bears repeating that if you play someone sporadically that player too could have poor match conditioning. He might be physically ready but he will usually have the “FIT” icon above his head. Play him a bit more regularly and he should be fine. 
 

I have noticed when I have a light preseason I tend to have to rest more players. When I don’t I am usually drilling through the season with my preferred eleven barring injury and rotational needs.