Why is it so hard to sell players on FM23?

[busngabb]

I've been pretty late in picking up Football Manager this time and am just embarking on my first career on the latest version. I'm really, really struggling to sell players. It seems like the AI is simply not interested in paying anything like a decent amount for players.

I've got Gbamin, Alli, Gomes, Iwobi, Keane, Tarkowski and Doucoure on the list. Now in real life I think Everton would struggle to sell a couple of those for much, but not this badly.

Gbamin - Gets interest in real life and moved abroad on loan last season and had a reasonable season. He expects to move on loan again if a permanent deal doesn't materialise.

Alli - Wages are probably stupid and is a bit of a mess career wise, so understand him not being wanted.

Gomes - Had a season on loan in France and did really well. Rumoured to be in talks with three or four teams in real life, with sorting out a deal in terms of wages and structure being the delay IRL, rather than no interest. He will definitely move.

Iwobi - Everton could sell if they wanted to, there would definitely be interest.

Keane - Again, has attracted interest in real life, the newly promoted sides would likely want him and certainly there would be 2 or 3 in the Championship who would find a place for him.

Doucoure - Would be plenty of interest in England and also abroad.

Tarkowski - Would be interest from Championship sides at least if not a few in the Premier League.

Getting a transfer offer of any kind for any of the above seems almost impossible. On the rare occasion you do get a bid (E.g. Spartak Moscow bidding £4m for Iwobi who the game rates at £20m) the player always turns it down, despite being on the unwanted list, being in the U21 squad and not registered for the Premier League. It's like it's a switch based decision, i.e is the club a higher rank than Everton? No, reject move.

You do get a lot of loan interest for them. The offers are usually from Russian or minor French or Spanish teams, but are always pitiful. E.g £32k a month contribution, no wages covered, no fee. I even had repeated offers from Bordeaux with absolutely no financial contribution at all and them immediately pulling out when I asked for any contribution at all. Even though the player expresses a strong desire to move to one of the two or three clubs that make an offer and threatens a mutiny if I reject the offer, the player always turns it down. Would Gomes really prefer sitting unregistered in the Under 21 squad at Everton to playing for Mallorca or Alaves for a year on the same money?

I'd expect to be paying a contribution towards the players wages for the above to move possibly, but Alli apart, they would all move eventually in real life, even if just on loan. In previous versions you'd get a few million for most of them, or at least a reasonable loan, and a decent amount for Iwobi, Keane and Tarkowski. Why is it so hard on the game this year?

In better news I have 53% of my weekly wage budget coming out of contract at the end of the season and absolutely none of them play. I'll get a gold sticker from the FFP people.

 

[rinso]

you're actively telling other teams you do nt want these  players. What's a "fair" price?   on the flip side, if you go  for a transfer listed player from the AI that you want, how low you start ?? 

 

edit.. plus you're Everton lol

Edited July 22, 2023 by rinso

[Brother Ben]

What kind of league setup and database of players are you running?  I find it's harder to sell players if there are too many players in the game compared to active leagues.  It's a supply and demand thing.  All anecdotal though mind you.

[Spurs08]

The Premier League is by a huge distance the most expensive league in the world in terms of wages. The amount Everton pays to very average players is multiples more than relegation-threatened clubs in Italy, Germany or Spain. You're trying to sell players not good enough for a bad PL team, and the only clubs who can afford their wages are the top few sides in each European league and the other PL sides they're probably also not good enough to play for. 

[busngabb]

1 hour ago, Spurs08 said:

The Premier League is by a huge distance the most expensive league in the world in terms of wages. The amount Everton pays to very average players is multiples more than relegation-threatened clubs in Italy, Germany or Spain. You're trying to sell players not good enough for a bad PL team, and the only clubs who can afford their wages are the top few sides in each European league and the other PL sides they're probably also not good enough to play for. 

That would apply to SOME of them. There's no way Everton wouldn't be able to sell Iwobi, Tarkowski and Keane for example. I'm also not expecting full payment of Gomes £120k a week wages, in fact nothing like it. But you'd expect a French or Spanish club to be interested, a few million fee and me paying £100k a week of his wages. Something like that. But you get loan offers from teams like Spartak Moscow, Alaves, Torino, Lille etc for £0 monthly contribution, £0 wages and no fees. Even if you accept them, the players always turn them down. So Gomes would rather spend 12 months unregistered in Everton's Under 21s squad than on loan as a regular starter in France/Spain on the same money? It doesn't make sense.

Alex Iwobi another example. Everton could sell him in real life. I've had offers from four teams, willing to pay £4m, despite the game valuing him at £20m, now dropping to £18m. The price fixing the game does is something they need to fix, why would all the clubs collude on the offers they make? You accept them, he still turns them down despite being unregistered and told he isn't wanted. That might make sense as he's out of contract in 12 months and may want to cash in, but two of the offers are from Champions League teams and one is a Saudi Prem Team.

It seems to me that the wages the players are on has too much impact on loan offers for them. For example Gomes. Clearly a top division quality player, played last season on loan in the top division in France and played well. You get loan offers of £0 for him. You ask for 10% wage contribution, £12k,that should be reasonable for a top division side in France/Spain/Italy. No, always immediately rejected. The fact he's on £120k is irrelevant, the club should still offer what they consider his value to be, ie. £12k, £20k, £25k a week etc. But they won't offer a penny. It's like the formula behind it it saying 'club can't afford £120k, so offer £0k' when it should be saying 'club can't afford £120k, so offer appropriate value £18k' etc.

The reputation of the club also seems to have too big an impact. For example Gomes rejecting top division sides in France/Spain/Italy to sit unregistered in the Under 21s on the same money. The only reasons I can figure are either Everton or the Premier League having a higher reputation, or both. It maketh no sense.

[Spurs08]

Let's take Iwobi for example.

 

First of all, he's on £100k per week before bonuses!!! And, if we're at the end of the first season*, he's only got a year left on his contract. You offering to subsidise that isn't very tempting, because it would only apply for those 12 months - he'd still find himself on a much lower wage after that, with probably 3 years left to run on his new deal. It makes much more sense for him to just stick around for the season, take the money you're going to have to pay him anyway, and hope a more attractive club comes in for him once he's a free agent - especially because there's a chance you'll end up playing him out of desperation. It's very rare a player really ends up just banished to the U21s, not least because of the impact on squad harmony and the fact that you aren't freeing up funds to spend on a replacement.

We're therefore looking at clubs who can afford to spend at least close to £100k per week on a player, who Iwobi would actually want to move to, who are allowed to sign him as a non-EU foreigner under their league rules, and who he's good enough to play for.

 

This is a list of every European club outside England, who have at least three £100k per week players at the start of the game:

 

Atletico Madrid

Barcelona

Borussia Dortmund

Bayern Munich

Inter Milan

Juventus

PSG

Real Madrid

 

That's literally it. You're talking about him being either a strong squad player for one of the best clubs in the world, or a star player for the likes of Sevilla or AC Milan just below that level. Alex Iwobi is clearly neither of these things, he's the 7th best player for a team that made a really good attempt at getting relegated two seasons in a row. The only likely route out for him on a transfer at this point is going to be to another Premier League team. But they can all attract and buy players from, again, any club that isn't an absolute giant of world football. They've got a lot of options if they want to spend that kind of money - and most will have better options than Iwobi. It's not impossible you'll get an offer, but the most likely outcome is that he'll pocket your wages for a year, hope to get at least some game time, and then walk on a free into a club who can pay in the £60-70k range.

The only option that leaves is loans. These aren't generally all that attrative to clubs - they get a player who isn't gelled with the squad or adapted to the league, probably doesn't get fully up to speed immediately, takes game time away from their own prospects, and is then going to leave next year with the club needing to replace them all over again. The clubs willing to do this will probably either be teams who see Iwobi as a big upgrade on what they've got, or are a bit desperate. In either case, those clubs aren't going to have the finances to offer much, and won't be very attractive options.

I don't think the game's perfect on this - I agree there should be a bit more room for negotiation with interested clubs than there currently is. But struggling to sell players on extreme wages who aren't actually that good is fundamentally unsurprising, and it's an issue Premier League clubs often face in real life too.

 

(if it's the first season, everyone has a much lower budget, since their money has already mostly been spent)

[busngabb]

But if loans aren't attractive, why do I get four or five offers a week for them now? All £0 value financially, which is just stupid, but the players reject them anyway. Valencia for Gomes on deadline day. £0 offer on loan till the end of the season. He rejects it. Marseille want Iwobi on loan now too, he rejects them. Even moving players on for absolutely no financial benefit is impossible.

[2feet]

Best way to sell is wait for an offer on a player, then negotiate with them to increase price.

 

It's really best when you have a player doing really well and getting high ratings, and this attracts interest.

They may not even be in your top bracket of players, but their performances mean you'll get above market value offers.

Edited July 23, 2023 by 2feet

[busngabb]

On 23/07/2023 at 18:56, 2feet said:

Best way to sell is wait for an offer on a player, then negotiate with them to increase price.

 

It's really best when you have a player doing really well and getting high ratings, and this attracts interest.

They may not even be in your top bracket of players, but their performances mean you'll get above market value offers.

Really, really struggling with it. I've only sold minor youth players so far. I've decided to cash in on Calvert-Lewin to fund some signings elsewhere. He's been doing well, playing and scoring a decent amount. He's valued by the game at £66m and is on £100k a week. Wolves, Juventus, Inter and PSG are interested. The only team that ever bids, but never show as being interested are Marseille who aren't willing to pay the asking price and are only willing to pay £16m. I've tried the suggestions the youtubers have made, like offering him out for a low price, then edging that upwards until a negotiable offer comes in, but they low ball the initial offer like Marseille and it's negotiable, but as soon as you move it any higher, they pull out. I guess Marseille only have £16m in the bank and that's their maximum, but the other club's are just lowballing. I'd probably sell him for £25m,  less than half what the game values him at, but he's been on the market three months including the whole of the transfer window and they just won't stump up the money. When you look at people playing Everton careers, they talk of selling him for £70m first season.

[Divvy]

I've pulled in money for Everton players in my saves but not massive amounts. Doucore & Keane for £5M each to French clubs and the likes of Townsend for a shade under £2M. Not massive amounts but wages will always play a part in what clubs will bid. I've found dumping them in the U21s and not playing them does little to motivate potential buyers.

I even got £20M for Maupay in the second season but he was playing fairly well and chipping in with goals.....on the back of winning the WC with Argentina so there was definitely something a little off there!

[XaW]

Personal experience, it's not hard to sell players in FM23, but it's hard to sell unwanted players, both in game and real life. Especially the last few years, there are more and more players leaving for a free after their contract runs out and not being sold for money. I think it's due to the inflated wages (especially in the PL). @Spurs08 had a great example for Iwobi above here, but pretty much anyone with a wage around that level is almost impossible to sell abroad (things might change in a future FM with the Saudi league going wild this summer).

[busngabb]

6 hours ago, XaW said:

Personal experience, it's not hard to sell players in FM23, but it's hard to sell unwanted players, both in game and real life. Especially the last few years, there are more and more players leaving for a free after their contract runs out and not being sold for money. I think it's due to the inflated wages (especially in the PL). @Spurs08 had a great example for Iwobi above here, but pretty much anyone with a wage around that level is almost impossible to sell abroad (things might change in a future FM with the Saudi league going wild this summer).

I've followed a lot of the Everton careers on here and on YouTube and they almost always sell DCL, as he kicks off about wanting to move to a bigger club in the first couple of months of the season. Most of them sell him for £40m-£70m. Are they just cheating? Or has a patch made negotiating less formulaic, as the tips the YouTubers provide about offering him out for a low price then edging up until you get a negotiable offer about the asking price doesn't seem to work anymore.

What process are you supposed to follow? I usually offer players out for just less than I'd accept for them, but don't transfer list them as that upsets them more, and try to negotiate from there. Is there a better way, like telling the DoF to do it, or telling the player to find themselves a new club?

[XaW]

11 hours ago, busngabb said:

I've followed a lot of the Everton careers on here and on YouTube and they almost always sell DCL, as he kicks off about wanting to move to a bigger club in the first couple of months of the season. Most of them sell him for £40m-£70m. Are they just cheating? Or has a patch made negotiating less formulaic, as the tips the YouTubers provide about offering him out for a low price then edging up until you get a negotiable offer about the asking price doesn't seem to work anymore.

What process are you supposed to follow? I usually offer players out for just less than I'd accept for them, but don't transfer list them as that upsets them more, and try to negotiate from there. Is there a better way, like telling the DoF to do it, or telling the player to find themselves a new club?

Well, there are a lot of variables that come into play. Database size vs active leagues can impact things greatly, for example. If you have many leagues but comparatively few players, then the best players will be in high demand, if you load a single league, but add players from loads of clubs, then there will plenty to go around. What I mean is, teams in playable leagues will be more active than in non-playable ones. I'm of course counting extremes here, but it can impact things. Also, where do these people sell him to? Other PL clubs or abroad? Is this in the first season, or after a few seasons? If he is part of a Everton team fighting for CL spots and does well, then he will be more attrative to clubs.

[busngabb]

It's just stupid how hard it is to sell players. Dwight McNeil had a good season for me and wants to move to a bigger club. I need funds to sign some new players with half the wage bill having left on frees as you can't sell anyone I have no depth (Iwobi, Alli, Gomes, Doucoure, Gueye, Holgate, Godfrey etc). Interest comes in from Arsenal and Real Madrid, along West Ham, Villa, Dortmund and RB Leipzig. For once the bids are decent and I negotiate it up to £35.5m up front with sell on clauses. Fine, everyones a winner.

Dwight McNeil, despite kicking off for a move to a bigger club and only being on his default Everton contract, turns them all down and is now moaning at me that he wants to leave to join a bigger club. There needs to be an option to slap players in the game. Now I might understand the Real Madrid thing, if they'd told him he'd never actually play, Arsenal even. But then he's got a choice between West Ham, Villa, Dortmund and Leipzig. Surely there's something for him there, even if I have to contribute to his wages? Surely they're all higher reputation teams than Everton at the moment? (Both the PL teams finished above me and are in Europe the following season and Everton are not).

The only player I've managed to sell in three transfer windows is Jordan Pickford, who moved to Inter when Onana left them.

[iAlwaysWin]

its pretty much always certain a player will attract interest and move club if A) Only has one year left on his contract or B) the player wants to leave and requests a transfer, otherwise it might be a struggle to move players on especially when there on big wages.