"The future of football manager" discussion

[Zapoleon]

Wish we knew a little more about how carrying over saves will work. Kinda brings up a lot of questions like if you are using custom DB'S will that work? 

Sometimes after they do an update you need to start a brand new save to get some bug fixes etc So are you going to miss out on some improvements and features by carrying over a save? 

I also wonder what happens to some bugs and issues from 23 if you carry over a save are you stuck with those issues or does playing on 24 resolve/fix them. 

If you can use olds saves with customs db's and there is a smooth transition from 23 to 24 where you get access to all the improvements will be a great feature. 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Zapoleon

[(sic)]

Now that I've had time to read the article again, I'll sum up some of my thoughts. 

First off, I'm definitely looking forward to FM24, and I'm wondering what are the features that didn't make it to FM23. While the whole save compatibility is great, it's not something that's gonna impact my experience at all.

 

Now onto FM25...oh boy.

The brand new engine is definitely the way forward for this game. It's something I (and many others) have talked about on these forums. The current engine is holding the game back, in terms of development, graphics, performance, etc. and it's honestly amazing to hear they're going to a brand new engine. 
Now whether or not it's a good choice for FM it remains to be seen, and it definitely depends on how the SI implements it. But it's definitely one of the best engines out there.

Overall, the whole part of the FM25 announcement looks like a response to us that have been complaining about the state of the game here on forums. It addresses the key concerns we had, such as:

• "How can we bring new people to the series, whilst not alienating our existing audience? How can we cater for all the different ways that people play our games?" - a concern we had about the game not being up to modern standards
• Whilst what we did in 2017 was good for the 3D engine, some other things actually went backwards from a consumer-facing perspective. The rendering engine we chose to use also didn't keep pace with other engines - and nor did our own internal engine." - basically addresses the downgrade in graphics
• "back in January 2020 a small group in the team were assigned to start discussing the future more intently across the studio, to work out what to do to really push our technology forward." - something that we had hoped was true, turns out to be true
• "The switch to Unity is going to give us a lot more power graphically, across all formats, alongside powerful user interface tools. We’ve been working closely with Unity over the last few years to be able to deliver a whole new UI which will dramatically improve the ways you are able to interact with the game, both inside and outside of a matchday  ...in simple terms, FM25 will have a significantly better looking matchday experience - both on the pitch and the supporting stadium environments, alongside a vastly improved user interface that will dramatically improve how you navigate through screens and access all the information available to you as manager." - better graphics, better UI/UX, overall the game will feel more modern and it will probably move away from being a spreadsheet simulator, just a tiny bit more (also, are we going to get UI sounds by any chance? it definitely looks like a possibility)
• "however it should be expected that there will be some changes to the minimum spec requirements, which will be communicated ahead of FM25’s release" - we always knew this would be the case, but I'm really glad they decided to go forward with this for the betterment of the game
• "We’ll also have new technology for Newgens and manager creation which are already looking really promising at this early stage." - newgens might finally look normal
• "The first part of a multi-year shift will happen in FM24, so you’ll get some of the benefits in our next instalment, with a particular focus on ball physics and player locomotion." - again, better and more realistic animations greatly help with the visuals and immersion
• "Simply put, the way that everything looks and moves will be far more true-to-life than ever before with FM25. This obviously requires considerable investment – but with the aforementioned growth of the studio in recent years, we now have the resource available to ensure both FM24 and FM25 are progressing simultaneously." - this definitely isn't cheap to do, but I'm really glad they decided to do this, rather than just update the current version of the game and earn money without really making big improvements

 

Overall the new engine has all the possibilities to completely transform the game, while still keeping a familiar FM experience we all know and (mostly) love. The UI/UX improvements, graphics and animations, all have a great effect on how it feels to play the game, they add immersion and realism in areas that are necessary (as opposed to realism in areas that completely aren't necessary, and yes I'm talking about press conferences - among other things). There's an opportunity to add a more interactive UI, that visually looks more pleasing, but also, more importantly, improves UX massively. There's an opportunity to move away from being a spreadsheet simulator, at least visually. 

New engine also offers a better base for all the future updates to the game, more stuff can be added that previously/currently maybe wasn't possible. It's also going to offer multi threaded support (you think so at least), so the game properly utilizes all cores/threads, which means better performance overall - even though the requirements are obviously going up, which again, is necessary, and it's gonna be 2024 at that point, with my current PC being 10 years old at that point. 

 

Now this obviously doesn't address ALL of the issues I have with the game, but it addresses the main and biggest point. Simply by upgrading the game engine, it offers countless possibilities, which in turn will allow for all other issues/requests to be solved more easily, and it allows the game to actually progress and keep up to modern standards. It's also worth mentioning that it all depends on how the SI implement all of this, because it's not a simple task. We can expect bugs and stuff to occur obviously, but my main concern is how the game will work, and whether it's really going to feel like a modern game or not. That remains to be seen, and we wont really know much, until we see it in action.

 

I'm really glad SI decided to do this, and I'm glad they decided to communicate that with us. Now, does anyone have a time-machine or something by any chance, I'd like to go a year ahead pls.

[jmb1403]

2 hours ago, DarJ said:

I don't think so or at least I didn't get that from reading the article. I will probably read it again in a few hours 

I am an idiot haha, didn't even realise there was an article, just got a twitter notification and thought that was it 

[gunner86]

I do share some of the concerns around save games moving from one version to another, having had a save ruined inexplicably by an ME update - although I think I inadvertently stumbled on an exploit that was allowing me to overperform my teams ability, and was basically closed off.

In terms of edited databases though I would expect those to carry over, because the leagues, clubs, players etc become part of the save, and as someone else has mentioned, you can transfer between users and PCs without having the edt files on the new device.

big question from me for FM25 outside of what the game will look like and the features is how is this going to affect graphics and things like face packs and logos. I strongly suspect though, this will be a “wait til it’s out” discovery.

Excited for the future though. Looks like good things are coming.

[(sic)]

4 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

big question from me for FM25 outside of what the game will look like and the features is how is this going to affect graphics and things like face packs and logos. I strongly suspect though, this will be a “wait til it’s out” discovery.

That definitely remains to be seen, as the UI definitely wont work like it currently does (which also means skins aren't going to be made the same way, as it's not going to be just a bunch of colored rectangles and images). 

Unity engine definitely allows for a lot of modding (it will be way "easier" to mod this game in Unity than it currently is - easier as in it will allow for more possibilities, won't necessarily be easier as you'd have to know a bit more of coding I'd imagine), so I feel like the logos and face packs won't go anywhere, but the way they work and the way you install them might change.

Edited June 28, 2023 by (sic)

[aj6658]

In Some ways Is cant win - Announce this early like they did means they are being transparent which is something we all wanted but I take it as they are setting people up for a timid FM24 release. Think is down overhyping so many features of the game that I cant trust them.

For me, FM24 is a skip. FM23 had some of the worst headline features (Manager timeline is not HL feature, Uefa license is not a HL feature). Found Fm23 to lose its appeal incredibly quickly and just got bored. Feel like FM24 is gonna be what Fm23 should of been.

 

Now FM25 - so glad that a new technological revolution is coming (hopefully) and my thoughts 

• A graphically update has been needed for awhile. The game looks no better than FIFA 2002. The world has moved on massively in 20 years and it's no excuse. Im not looking for the latest FIFA graphics. I would be happy with FIFA 12 graphics as its not the most important aspect 
• I want them to get rid of all the utter rubbish they've added over the years unless it actually adds something 
  • Supporter confidence - added nothing to the game
  • Social media - added nothing to the game 
  • Too many press conferences (tunnel interviews...) - I don't want it replicated if there's nothing added or no purpose 
• Transfer - please just spend time building a smart squad builder for teams. The further you go in, the worse it gets 
• Fix youth development - when are we gonna see people good at crosses 

 

[FourFiveOne]

I think its a very exciting -and long awaited- announcement. Im happy that they have communicated their plans for the future of FM, because everyone likes transparency and communication from devs.

HOWEVER.. I do hope that we will also get the full fat PC FM on mobile. Why, you might ask? Because this will bring millions of new players to the game as mobile gaming is the most accessible and makes the biggest revenue for games. To give an example; even CODM is still what makes the most money despite COD releasing MW2 & Warzone 2 less than a year ago. Ofcourse, these are different game genres, but it doesn't change te fact that mobile is the fastest growing gaming platform that brings the most benefits (income) to games, because everyone has a phone and it is the most accessible/mobile (easy to travel with).

"But the screen if too small for a game like FM". No, its not! People are playing PC FM on the Steam Deck and the Asus Rog Ally without much trouble. The touchscreen and zoom capabilities can make it a comfortable experience for everyone. Not only that, you can already customize tab icons (general, training, etc.) aswell as stat screens. Removing half of the standard stat screens creates space which means other content on a particular page/screen will be bigger/magnified if you wish. There are solutions, SI can make it happen, if they want..

Full fat PC FM would be a success in so many ways. Not everyone likes slimmed down versions like Touch or Console. Each player should have the option to choose what format of FM they want to play. When purchasing FM we should have both options (full FM or Touch) and decide which one to use before the start of each career. My request to the devs: please don't leave mobile behind! I have read the full blog post and mobile will improve -obviously- but SI needs to go all the way in their revolution!

[gunner86]

9 minutes ago, (sic) said:

That definitely remains to be seen, as the UI definitely wont work like it currently does (which also means skins aren't going to be made the same way, as it's not going to be just a bunch of colored rectangles and images). 

Unity engine definitely allows for a lot of modding (it will be way "easier" to mod this game in Unity than it currently is - easier as in it will allow for more possibilities, won't necessarily be easier as you'd have to know a bit more of coding I'd imagine), so I feel like the logos and face packs won't go anywhere, but the way they work and the way you install them might change.

Interesting.

I mean, it’s by no means a deal breaker, but I’ve always found it adds immersion. Particularly when managing in non licensed leagues. Like I said, I will wait and see.

[Deisler26]

I'm cautiously optimistic for the save transfer for FM24.

The worst part of any save is the first 3/4 seasons, so I'll be excited to be deep in the timeline with all the new bells and whistles

[Haiku]

I couldn't find an answer to my questions:

1. Will there be a match engine overhaul in addition to the graphics engine? I mean, will there be a difference in how the game plays out and how it responds to user tactics?

2. Will there be an improved transfer system and player interaction, along with UI improvements?

All I understood is that there will be a major graphical overhaul, but nothing regarding the game mechanics.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Haiku

[metal_guitarist]

8 minutes ago, Haiku said:

I couldn't find an answer to my questions:

1. Will there be a match engine overhaul in addition to the graphics engine? I mean, will there be a difference in how the game plays out and how it responds to user tactics?

2. Will there be an improved transfer system and player interaction, along with UI improvements?

All I understood is that there will be a major graphical overhaul, but nothing regarding the game mechanics.

I'm sure they'll release specifics closer to the time but I'd expect most, if not all areas of the game to get an uplift once they move to Unity. 

[ViG1980]

Great news. Can’t wait for 2025. Smart marketing for when we get a crappy 2024. It’s because they’re working on 2025 which will be amazing so I want to give them my money!! 😂 

[Fredrik]

1 hour ago, Domoboy23 said:

Sounds promising, also slightly worrying.

We've seen how much quality can drop and how many bugs and knock on effects can appear even from small changes from one patch to another, never mind one version of FM with small changes to another nevermind when making big changes. 

I have a feeling this is why this will happen in FM 25 and not in next version. It will give them more time to iron out some of the kinks. 

[DarJ]

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

Basically they're already saying that FM24 won't have much news, possibly just the save compatibility and not much else,

That's not what I got from reading it. They said there were features that were removed from FM23 at the last minute because they were not ready so I imagine those will be in FM24 and since the game will be released this year it is still very early for them to announce any features because if they did that now the hype will go down before release day.

[Marc Vaughan]

4 hours ago, jmb1403 said:

It would be a great idea but are they saying that the next years game will not be improved much on the previous year? (ie. to make the save compatible it will need to be in a similar state?)

No they aren't saying that at all

[zakbrown96]

Very exciting future! But I do think people are being harsh to the developers on FM24, It’s still going to have thousands of hours of work from developers working on it, and new features. I get all of the excitement is in FM25 and rightly so, But let’s also look forward to FM24 which has potential to be quite good as well! 

[Martini]

Unity is great, but it all depends about what SI does with it.

For me that I've been playing each version since more than a decade with +1000 hours each... I just want realistic lower league stadiums, been requesting this for like 10 years, just a few benches, wooden stands, and grass, a realistic LLM experience.

Honestly that's all I want and should be easier than ever with Unity, the game is nearing perfection... that and better opponent AI, especially with transfers. 

[webeto]

If we have used the SI Games in-game editor, will that affect the ability to transfer the FM23 save to FM24 etc?

[gunner86]

40 minutes ago, webeto said:

If we have used the SI Games in-game editor, will that affect the ability to transfer the FM23 save to FM24 etc?

I would think it would be fine. It’s essentially just making a DB change

[Jops14]

I love the transparency and it feels really positive. Good to know there is more stuff coming for FM24 (and I like the point that it got cut late in FM23) and the acknowledgement (finally) tat the graphics severely stagnated.

 

I remember reading a discussion a while back that there had been no significant steps forward in FM in forever. Back in CM days every 4/5 years there'd be a massive leap forward, and there hasn't really been with FM. This feels like a massive leap forward is coming... FM2?

[cerud]

Lots to be happy for here, but as always, it's a cautious optimism.

- Moving to Unity is just necessary. Its uniform across much of the gaming world and, as others have said here, enables FM to continue to grow from a new starting point.

- Really happy about the addition of women's football. And coming in 2025 is good because it means Project 8 in my country will be implemented. For those who don't know, Project 8 is bringing a brand-new women's professional league to Canada. And it will be up and running by that time. Given that the best player our country has ever produced plays in the women's game, I' hoping she'll still be around at this time. She may be retired by then, but here's hoping.

[andu1]

Ability to carry the current save into FM 24... That sounds good.

Also FM 25 sounds promising with the revamped Graphics.

[ben carter]

Carrying over saves, new business models. Sound like in part from FM25 they're going to try a service model.

Switching to Unity on it's own doesn't sound enough to call FM24 the last of it's kind. Seems like a pretty big shift in focus or how you actually pay to play. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by ben carter

[aiston]

Sounds promising, really hope it works out as well.

Hopefully this kind of communication comes often!

 

[RiverReveal666]

I reckon they should have shown at least a screenshot. By the time some peoples imaginations have finished it will be a few levels above FIFA. Then they will show something in 2024 and instead of 'wow', it will be....that looks last gen / rough / PES 5 looked better....

Can't wait though. Long overdue an revamp and freshness.

[aj6658]

Its says revamped graphics but tbh I rather I had a revamped ME 

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, RiverReveal666 said:

I reckon they should have shown at least a screenshot. By the time some peoples imaginations have finished it will be a few levels above FIFA. Then they will show something in 2024 and instead of 'wow', it will be....that looks last gen / rough / PES 5 looked better....

Can't wait though. Long overdue an revamp and freshness.

Considering this is more than a year in the future, I assume they are still doing the technical part, and haven't added much of the graphical stuff yet, at most placeholders I'd wager.

I also would like to see how it looks, but I think it's far too early to show off.

[Bigpole]

I wonder if games with editor data files will work in next year's edition. I like to start a lower league save with lower leagues loaded (poland/germany/spain), and I hope we could continue the journey in new fm.

[kingjericho]

1 hour ago, DarJ said:

That's not what I got from reading it. They said there were features that were removed from FM23 at the last minute because they were not ready so I imagine those will be in FM24 and since the game will be released this year it is still very early for them to announce any features because if they did that now the hype will go down before release day.

They'll never say it clearly, but when there's an announcement in the likes of "our game in 2025 will be huge but we still have 2024 first" it's not hard to get the message. I'm not complaining, though. If a big overhaul is coming in 2025 I can wait and still have FM24 in between.

[Dotsworthy]

Fair to say this is a very positive announcement. I'm intrigued to know what features that did not make 23 will make it into 24.

The move to Unity sounds like a major step forward in terms of graphical fidelity and perhaps the ability to mod the game going forward.

[Weed07]

I imagine that the save game moving to new versions works the same as an update patch works so you get the new Match Engine, graphic changes, any new UI changes and new features and bug fixes but it keeps the database and leagues etc the same as thats in the save file. 

[roykela]

What a refreshing read that was.
Transparency with both good and bad stuff, short-term and long-term plan and a big change.
Can't get into FM23 at all but now i'm looking forward to FM24. And i'm very excited about FM25. Can't wait

Great article. More of this please  

[Choi seung won]

As someone who has played over 800 hours of every series since FM12, I am very excited about the new news. 

Here are my questions 
 How much of an upgrade will the new graphics be?

Obviously, it won't be as good as the Fifa series, but it will definitely be compared to Fifa if it's a sloppy upgrade. As a longtime user, I'm definitely not expecting Fifa graphics in FM, but I'm curious to what extent the graphics will be upgraded. 

[grade]

for the early announcement, really show some guts in telling the future plans of SI. Quite refreshing from these last few years of not sharing anything with the player base.

As for FM24, I will reserve my opinion to then.

As for FM25, it show really promise with the intention of revamping the game. No surprise, that likely the first announcement of FM25 is when around the period they cease suport of FM24 with the third and final patch.  I also will keep my reservations for then (we are about year away, so... ), but I have now expectations that we are gonna have proper new features.

However, I do wonder if we are having that announcement in Q2 of 2024, then have another announcement by September or October the rest of the announcement features, with the rest of the features for the players to find out, with some bread crumbs from Miles' twitter (which normally is status operandi of SI in the last few years). Or are we getting dev diaries, leading up to the release of FM25? I personally prefer the latter. Something probably in the lines what Paradox is doing for Cities Skylines 2).

Final say, I do wonder if editor is going to change aswell? Well me in October or November in 2024, is going to learn about it.

[Hsainty76]

Hopefully more stadium variations especially whilst playing in different countries. Most stadiums over 30k have three tiers which (for me at least) for my club Southampton holds around 32k and just looks a bit unrealistic. Only a minor gripe but with the unity engine fingers crossed.

[toon army 06]

6 hours ago, Weed07 said:

I'm excited for FM25, time to start saving for a new PC to be able to run it.

Not convinced FM24 will be much of an upgrade on FM23, it'll be interesting to see what the new features will be but the biggest ones may be getting saved for FM25.

Being able to continue a save on the next version is good as in the past I've had saves I would have liked to continue, I just hope that they fix long term AI squad building and player development so that it makes it viable to keep a save going over multiple versions, currently saves get stale long term because AI teams don't keep up with human teams and fill their squad with older players while not giving youth game time to improve. Also while carrying a save over might be good, it might also make it seem like less of a new version so not sure if I would carry on a save or start over but either way its a good addition.

What's needed to run it?

[gunnerfan]

My first thought upon reading the announcement was: well, that certainly puts paid to the oft-repeated charge around these parts that SI doesn’t pay attention to its player base. Miles made it clear that they’ve been aware of the dissatisfaction for quite some time. I also wasn’t surprised that the rollout of a new and vastly improved FM was delayed by the pandemic. Most everything else was affected. Could communication of the issues been better? Perhaps, but I doubt it would have helped. At this point, I’m genuinely excited about what’s to come. A vastly improved game engine and graphics, along with saved-game portability all hit the back of the net for me.

My second thought was, Fantastic! The long-term warranty on my laptop runs out in October of 2025, just in time for me to splash out for a new top-of-the-line model for FM25. Saving and focus on the laptop market will commence shortly. And my playing of my current save, which began in Brazil at Santos, thence to Spain with Celta Vigo, and most recently to France with Olympique Lyonnaise, can continue uninterrupted.

Made my day, this did.

 

[\'Appy \'Ammer]

Save game feature is a very appealing feature BUT I'd like to know a couple of things....

- can any iteration of an FM save move on to the new FM, or is it only the previous version that would work? 

- would an edited database save game be compatible with this feature or is it only possible if playing with the original database competitions?

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by \'Appy \'Ammer

[themadsheep2001]

42 minutes ago, gunnerfan said:

My first thought upon reading the announcement was: well, that certainly puts paid to the oft-repeated charge around these parts that SI doesn’t pay attention to its player base. Miles made it clear that they’ve been aware of the dissatisfaction for quite some time. I also wasn’t surprised that the rollout of a new and vastly improved FM was delayed by the pandemic. Most everything else was affected. Could communication of the issues been better? Perhaps, but I doubt it would have helped. At this point, I’m genuinely excited about what’s to come. A vastly improved game engine and graphics, along with saved-game portability all hit the back of the net for me.

My second thought was, Fantastic! The long-term warranty on my laptop runs out in October of 2025, just in time for me to splash out for a new top-of-the-line model for FM25. Saving and focus on the laptop market will commence shortly. And my playing of my current save, which began in Brazil at Santos, thence to Spain with Celta Vigo, and most recently to France with Olympique Lyonnaise, can continue uninterrupted.

Made my day, this did.

 

I think a lot of it would have been wanting to communicate, but for whatever reasons not being in a position to, whether its the nature of secrecy needed, or some things just not being a place to be confirmed. At least the delay in communication has meant quit significant reveals and crucially signposting more communication to come. 

[Kendo BKK]

I'm interested to see how the importing of saves will work in practice, and what benefits it would bring. I'm someone that usually buys about 1 game in 2-3 years.

The most eye opening part of the blog was Miles holding his hands up that the graphics engine has stagnated and their decision to use the in-game regen faces from the 3D engine was a wrong one.

[Gunnersmoke]

7 hours ago, CaptainSa said:

One thing people should be prepared for is for the match engine to actually be a worse game of football, despite better graphics. It took a couple of iterations for the 3d engine to find its groove.

Overall though, excited, despite the mention of a "Games as a Service" model.

Honestly this is what I'm worried about, that it'll be more like 2026/7 when we get a fully working match engine if they're completely starting from scratch

[rhydymwyn]

My first thought is: Please, please, please don't kill off 2D mode and/or put the game out of reach for people without a high-end graphics set-up. Graphics improvements are fine and dandy, but I still play in classic 2D mode. The game never looked "real" enough to bother watching, and honestly, I love the option to zip through a match using the fastest settings. Make all the improvements (and "improvements") you want, but please don't make the game inaccessible to those of us who don't bother with in-game graphics to begin with. Or maybe I'm the only one?

My second thought is: thank you for taking the time to get the women's game "right". Looking forward to lifting the Champions League trophy with Kerr & Co. at Chelsea in FM25. (Sorry, Emma, but you can take the men's team, if you'll have them.)

[Robioto]

Wow, I've been so disappointed with FM2023, I've been extremely vocal about my thoughts on the stagnation of the series and have kind of reached the end of my tether with the series. But...

I did not expect this news and I'm absolutely delighted. Can't wait to hear more about FM24 and 25.

This is fantastic and exciting news.

[wazzaflow10]

That was incredibly, incredibly refreshing read. Thank you SI. Looking forward to the new developments. 

[Nikki]

I'd be inclined to think that custom databases wouldn't be any issue, since FM saves essentially are the databases being used, so the relevant data should all be there regardless of what the starting point was. Except that sounds so obvious to me that I'm now wondering why no dev jumped in to point that out, with so many people asking about it, so maybe I'm missing something?

[SimonHoddle]

Wow. Just read the statement. They do listen (wipes away a tear). Can’t wait for 2025, apart from the fact ill be even more ancient by then.

acknowledging missteps is welcome. 

Graphics revolution is exciting. 

somtimes you need to hit a low to make a leap forward. I’ve played 23 quite a bit but never loved it. I’ve got a feeling I’ll be loving the series again very soon

[sanx]

Nice, but i didnt heard anything about ME

[fc.cadoni]

55 minutes ago, sanx said:

Nice, but i didnt heard anything about ME

With the introduction of women's football, pretty sure yes.

[Johnny Ace]

57 minutes ago, sanx said:

Nice, but i didnt heard anything about ME

There's always ME improvements and changes every year 

[StormenDK]

I am very happy about the announcement, and I concur with people saying that openness is the way forward. 

It is ok to f*** up. Just own it and then do your best to improve.

As for the switch to Unity, I think it will be a good thing. I just hope the match engine translates well to the new system. But I am sure they have explored that before making that decision.

I really, really hope that they open the game up for modding. Seeing what the community has done for Cities Skylines, I would think very interesting stuff could be done for FM as well. It could be complete overhauls of the UI, new systems integrated into the game, fixing issues etc.

Let the community help you in future developments. Cities Skylines 2 has implemented handfuls of mods into the new game.