Recreating Eddie Howe's Newcastle United 4-3-3

[Smallen]

In the 2022/23 season Newcastle have exceed expectations, currently sitting 3rd in the Premier League and managed to make it to the League Cup final. Along the way they've played some exciting high energy football with some interesting tactical ideas implemented. At their best they've forced lots of high turnovers and pressed teams into oblivion with very aggressive defending. They've also been criticised for their use of "the dark arts" in some games, but mostly they've played positive football, created lots of chances and ran teams off the park. 

Analysing Newcastle IRL

The Press

In most games - particularly at home - Newcastle look to play a high press. They do this from their fairly standard 4-3-3 shape. 

There is a good twitter thread here from Mar’tics analysing a recent game against Brighton highlighting how Howe set up to press them; but more generally it is the same pressing tactic that has been a consistent feature of Newcastle's play this season. They play a narrow press which looks to force the ball into the opposition full backs whilst the midfielders are tightly marked. Once they force the opposition into these positions, the full back is either forced to play long where the Newcastle centre backs usually mop up from playing an aggressive man to man marking system; or the full back is forced to play a risky pass into a marked midfielder which often results in a turnover. 

Just a couple examples from that Brighton game c/o Mar’tics 

The RW (Almirón) looks to press the opposition centre back whilst the opposition midfield pivot is tightly marked

The opposition full backs are not marked tightly and can receive the ball, but this is a trigger and they usually find themselves pressed aggressively, with most short passing options tightly marked. The work rate and energy of Almirón regularly allows him to cover two men at once. 

If the opposition successfully plays through the press, Newcastle do not have much pace in the back line and will look to retreat into a mid block with Nick Pope sweeping quite aggressively when the opponent goes long. Sometimes this doesn't come off and they are left exposed - Aston Villa's 3-0 victory being a particular example of this where Newcastle's press was poorly timed and Ollie Watkins thrived by running in behind the aggressive but slow Fabian Schar. 

Here you can see how effective they are at pressing, with this chart showing they are one of the best teams in the league at thwarting opposition build up:

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Build up

Newcastle's shape in build up deviates away from the the 4-3-3 shape somewhat. Out of possession Newcastle adopt a flat back 4; but in possession the 6ft 7" left back Dan Burn often becomes part of a back 3 whilst chief ball progressor and creator Kieran Trippier looks to aggressively attack up the right wing. 

The best way to illustrate this is with some pass maps, so here are some pass maps to look at courtesy of @markstatsbot on twitter:

    

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Defenders

As we can see there is a clear back three shape in possession here formed with Burn #33, Botman #4 and Schar #5.

This frees Trippier (#2) to roam up the right wing as much as he possibly can. You will often notice when watching Newcastle that most of their attacks are built up the right hand side, and this is mostly because they are able to create overloads by adding the right back as an extra man.

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Midfielders

Guimaraes (#39) will act as the main pivot player, with Longstaff (#36) as a box-to-box player who will occasionally look to form a double pivot with Guimaraes in deeper areas; but will also look to get into the opposition's box in an attempt to get on the end of cut backs and crosses. In possession Newcastle will either look to attack in a 3-2-5 or even a 3-1-6 shape. 

In the latter half of the season Joe Willock has featured more heavily as the left sided central midfielder and will play very aggressively. For example, here is a pass map where Willock (#28) has ended up in advance of the left winger (#7 Joelinton) and almost alongside the central striker:

In this one you can also see how Longstaff sometimes operates in a much deeper position of the pitch; operating as a link player for Guimaraes and Trippier in build up. 

On Willock, it's important to recognise just how aggressively he plays. It's going to be a big feature of how this translates to FM. Here's a look at his PL comparison with other midfielders this season:

Some points here:

- Few passes indicates how he his rarely involved in build-up
- High amount of progressive passes received, touches in the penalty and xG shows how he is mostly a player who features in the opposition penalty area. 
- Lots of progressive carries indicates that he is a player who looks to dribble first. This is usually when he receives the ball in a counter attacking scenario. 

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Attack

The three across the front are nothing unusual really. The central striker stays quite central whether it's Isak or Wilson. They will look to both link play and also run in behind. The wide forwards are high energy players who need to be capable of pressing aggressively and getting into the box or supplying cut backs. Both wide players will typically look to play close to the central striker in order to support and create chances for them. 

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Some other features to consider

Transitions

Newcastle have been identified as a team that's strong in transition. They have high energy players who will look to attack quickly when they win the ball. They'll regularly use counter attacks to take advantage of the speed, dribbling ability and power of the likes of Wilson, Isak, Almirón, ASM, Willock and Joelinton. 

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Kieran Trippier

Newcastle look to get the ball to Trippier whenever they can and he is effectively the main playmaker of the team; with a similar role in possession to what TAA had at Liverpool before his recent move to more of an inverted full back. If we look at just how effective his build up is, his open play xThreat is second only to KdB in the premier league this season; implying that most of Newcastle's build up comes from him:

You will regularly see this kind of thing from Newcastle games, where Trippier is Newcastle's main source of ball progression by some distance:

  

It's important to recognise this when building our tactic for FM. 

Trippier's set-pieces are also a key feature, with Newcastle having the highest xG from set-pieces in the league this season. 

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Mentality

When we look at whether Newcastle are an attacking team or not, we can see that they have the 5th highest field tilt (share of possession purely measured in opposition third) in the league this season, so it's fair to say they play with a fairly positive mentality in FM terms:

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Patience around the box

Whilst Newcastle look to play with speed and are fairly direct with the ball (they have a fairly average 77.6% passing accuracy), they are not a side who will take low percentage shots from distance:

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Time wasting

It's well documented that Newcastle are amongst the teams with the lowest ball in play duration this season. They regularly take their time with set-pieces and goal kicks and look to make the most of them - especially when they're already ahead or are not the favourites in the game. 

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Translating this into FM

Let's get straight into the team shape and player roles:

In terms of overall shape you can see we've gone for this lopsided 4-3-3 shape featuring 3 centre backs and an attacking wing back. The DM is offset to the left in order to allow our right sided box-to-box midfielder to occasionally drop deep to receive the ball. 

In possession this will generally translate to our 3-2-5 in deeper areas and the 3-1-6 shape higher up the field.

3-2-5:

3-1-6 where you can see we've managed to get Trippier free by overloading the right side:

In defence it becomes more of our standard 4-3-3 shape with the RWB dropping back to make a back 4:

In terms of pass maps, here's a fairly average example from my last match which nicely illustrates what they tend to look like:

Happily this is looking pretty close to the real life pass maps posted earlier!

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Team Instructions

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Mentality

- Positive to reflect that we want to play the game in the opposition's third.

In Possession

- Play out of defence to help us achieve our 3-2 build structure.

- Slightly higher tempo to help us be rapid in transitions.

- Work ball into box to reflect that only really Trippier will cross from deep areas, and that Newcastle rarely shoot from distance.

- Frequently time waste to reflect time taken over set-pieces. Should in theory help with player's condition. 

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In Transition

- To replicate Newcastle we want to be rapid and aggressive in transition so we've gone with the obvious choices of counter, counter press and distribute quickly. Nick Pope will occasionally go long so we're happy to allow that rather than restricting him to shorter passing options.

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Out of Possession

- High press and prevent short GK distribution allow us to press aggressively when the opposition is trying to build up from the back.

- We've left the defensive line as minimise potential damage from the lack of pace in the back 4 once the press is broken through. 

- Trigger press is also left neutral as we only want this to press aggressively in certain situations. We will implement this with player and opposition instructions instead. 

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Player Roles & Instructions

 

GK - Nick Pope - Sweeper Keeper (support)

This role should reflect that Nick Pope comes fairly far off his line to sweep up long balls played behind Newcastle's defensive line. We've not added any additional instructions for him beyond the default ones.

 

RCB - Fabian Schar - Wide Centre Back (defend)

Fabian Schar has a lot of player traits that mean he will play out for the back, play long and get forward. We want to mitigate some of these with instructions so that he doesn't go overboard with it, so we've checked the following:

Spoiler

 

CB - Sven Botman - Central Defender (defend)

The only additional instruction here is to add the take fewer risks option. This reflects that Botman is more conservative on the ball and has a high pass completion of 86% irl (compared to Schar's 76.6%). He will still look to switch play with his "likes to switch ball" player trait.

 

LCB - Dan Burn - Wide Centre Back (support)

We've given Dan the support duty to reflect that he will occasionally get forward to support attacks, but only when the attack is being made down the left hand side. If he plays as a pure LB rather than LCB I've found he stays too wide and plays too aggressively regardless of which role you give him. In this shape he will still defend out of possession as a LB in most situations. We also want to restrict him on the ball somewhat so he has the following instructions:

Spoiler

 

RWB - Kieran Trippier - Wing Back (attack)

As mentioned previously this is a massive role in the team. He'll be your set-piece taker but he'll also be key for chance creation with crosses and creating overloads down the right hand side. With and inverted winger ahead of him it allows him to operate high and on the touchline. The only instruction we've added outside the default for this role is shoot less often. And here he is in game, with a massive amount of open play key passes and open play expected assists per 90:

 

DM - Bruno Guimaraes - Regista (support)

I wanted to use the regista role here to reflect that Bruno doesn't just stay in the 6 position but regularly makes runs forward to support attacks and counter attacks. He will also still press very aggressively too. We've added dribble less and shoot less often as player instructions to make him more of a pass first player. We've got him progressing play very nicely considering we're not set up to be a possession side:

 

RCM - Joelinton - Box to Box Midfielder (support)

Note: It'd be nice to play Sean Longstaff here, but unlike real life he's simply not very good in the game. He also has the unsuitable shoots from distance and likes ball played to feet player traits which just don't work in our system. I've been using him as a backup player for both Bruno and Joelinton instead.

Regarding the role, we want this player to be full of running and able to support our attacks and cover defensively down the right hand side, so we've got a whole host of instructions added:

Spoiler

We want this player to win the ball, keep the ball and allow the more creative players around him to flourish. Joelinton is actually perfect for this role in game with his high work rate, stamina and tackling attributes. 

 

LCM - Joe Willock - Mezzala (attack)

This player ought to be a goal and assist machine from midfield. As mentioned in previous analysis this role isn't involved in build up much at all and instead is very aggressive and seeks to occupy the opponents defenders. He will look to dribble with the ball and break lines that way rather than passing. We also don't want Joe Willock just shooting willy nilly from anywhere because he's not very good at it; we want him to get into the box to take his chances there instead. Again we've added a range of instructions to achieve this:

Spoiler

So far I'm really happy with this role's output in terms of xG, xA and dribbles. In true Joe Willock style he is underachieving his expected output :

 

RW - Miguel Almirón - Inverted Winger (attack)

With the inverted winger role, this player will look to occupy the channel between the opposition full back and centre back, which is exactly what we want with our attacking wing back operating outside him. We want him to get on the end of pull backs from the opposite side and keep possession around the box, so we've added some restrictions:

Spoiler

 

 LW - Alexander Isak or Allan Saint-Maximin - Inverted Winger (attack)

You can go with either of these players. Personally so far I've found Isak to be more effective there and his higher work rate attribute should help us press better. 

With no full back behind them, this player will primarily look to run at the opponent full back. We also have to be weary that the LCM is a mezzala who will look to occupy a similar area of the field, so we've added the stay wider instruction to create some width out there. With most of our attacks going down the right hand side, this player will often get chances from the opposition full back being isolated against him, which is exactly what we want. Again, we don't want them shooting from anywhere or taking too many risks around the area so we've added some restrictions:

Spoiler

 

ST - Callum Wilson or Alexander Isak - Complete Forward (attack)

This player should be aggressive in the press and clinical in front of goal. Callum Wilson is an ideal kind of profile for this role. We've added the pass it shorter instruction to simplify their passing, and we've also taken the close down more instruction for our high press.

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Opposition Instructions

You'll have to set these manually but the principles are quite simple: close down the back line aggressively and attempt to force them into their full backs by man marking the central players. Show their full backs inside and either force them long to man marked forwards, or a risky pass into their marked central midfield.

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Corners

We need to be a threat from set-pieces, so set Trippier to take your corners and I've gone with this corner setup (left side is just a mirror of this) with deliveries left on mixed:

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Results So Far

I've played up to the world cup break and after a wobbly-ish start where I was still tweaking things, we've played very well and much like Newcastle in real life:

League table:

Spoiler

Results:

Spoiler

Player performance:

Spoiler

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Download

I've added the tactic so that you can try it yourself and work from it; though this is not really meant to be plug-and-play at all. The intention is to try and recreate some of the tactical principles that Eddie Howe has used this season.

Eddie Howe 4-3-3.fmf

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Discussion

Has anyone else tried a Newcastle recreation? I'm interested to see what your ideas are or how you'd do things differently. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by Smallen

[cocoadavid]

Amazing! I think this is how a post about recreating a team's tactic should look like, backed up by data and charts. One of the best post I've seen in a while.

[Smallen]

45 minutes ago, cocoadavid said:

Amazing! I think this is how a post about recreating a team's tactic should look like, backed up by data and charts. One of the best post I've seen in a while.

Thanks!

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I've just finished the season using this recreation and we actually managed to take the title race to the last day, with an 89th minute Jack Grealish goal clinching a 0-1 win away at Brentford to break our hearts . It was quite a low points tally to win it, but I'll certainly take 81 points and 104 goals!

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Despite only managing 2 goals in his first half of the season, Big Dan Burn went on a big scoring run in the second half of the season and it turns out the corner tactic I posted earlier might be a bit of an accidental exploit! . He managed 16 goals in total haha. 

We had Trippier out for 6 weeks and Isak out for 3 months in the back end of the season which was a bit of a blow. We had to rely on Wilson as the sole striker at the club, but fortunately he stayed fit.

We also made a couple of verstaile January additions to add for squad rotation in James Maddison who could cover 4 positions for us, Alex Scott as back up right wing back and regista and Angelo as a prospect. 

Here's our typical starting XI and how individuals performed over the whole season:

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and our results post WC:

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Some other data that came out of the season which I was pleased with:

We had Trippier fulfilling his role as chief creator and progressor very well, with lots of open play creation in addition to his set pieces.

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One feature of Newcastle's defensive play which I forgot to mention was that in his hybrid LCB/LB role, Dan Burn basically prevents the opposition from being able to switch the ball to his flank in the air due to his size. I was please to see he's made a large amount of interceptions for us despite us being a front foot side. 

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B

Bruno Guimaraes continued his role as one of the most progressive passers in the league. 

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Our midfielders and forwards ran a lot

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We managed to achieve our aim of getting Joe Willock into goalscoring chances from midfield. He ended the season with 12 goals and 10 assists in the league. 

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Our left sided forwards carried the ball a lot whilst our right sided ones were more conservative with their dribbling. 

[De Nile]

That looks really good, this is the second recreation I've seen that uses a back 3 to get a back 4. The WCB has to be really good to cover the left half space and the left flank, I suppose the regista defends the space in front of the defence and mezzala helps when the ball goes out wide.

[Smallen]

3 hours ago, De Nile said:

That looks really good, this is the second recreation I've seen that uses a back 3 to get a back 4. The WCB has to be really good to cover the left half space and the left flank, I suppose the regista defends the space in front of the defence and mezzala helps when the ball goes out wide.

yes, I think the LCB being more athletic profile could be a major upgrade to this tactic. Occasionally if the ball is on the other flank they are caught too far inside and leaving the opposition winger free, so some speed to get out and engage if the ball is switched would be useful. If you added a Gvardiol or Nathan Ake-type there I daresay that would be the ideal kind of profile for the role. I have retrained Matt Targett to play there and he has done well as a back up to Burn.

The LW actually comes back to help on defence more than I expected, but I am tempted to try changing the role to a support duty in an attempt add a bit more defensive stability and to get them to pick the ball up deeper to be a pure ball carrier. The only worry is the tactic might lose some of the half space dominance on that side - so far having two players (LCM and LW) seeking to abuse the channel between the opposition's right full back and CB whilst we overload and build down the right flank seems to be a very effective tactic. 

The mezzala plays almost exactly how I wanted them to. They are basically a pure transition player who is great on the counter, and Joe Willocks speed, dribbling and off the ball attributes are perfectly suited to the role. I just wish he could finish better!

In my next season I am focussing on trying to add some more defensive solidity, but rather than changing the tactic too much I am doing this mainly by signing players who are better at defending. 

So far I have signed Declan Rice to play as the b2b midfielder, and I'm going to try moving Joelinton into the mezzala role to see if he can start winning some more tackles (tackling 17, work rate & stamina 18) higher up the field from our press. He may not get the goals that Willock gets though, so we will have to see if I can train him to gain the gets into opposition area trait and see how that goes. I've also signed Skriniar to play as the CB, so Botman has moved to take the LCB role and Maxence Lacroix has come in to add some badly needed pace to the backline at RCB. I think if I were the Newcastle recruitment team these are the kind of profiles I would be looking to sign IRL this summer to improve this system - strong, tall, athletic players who can play a bit but understand their defensive duties above all else.

Edited May 22, 2023 by Smallen

[Robson 07]

Comment removed. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Robson 07

[Lasson]

👏

Phenomenal work. Really intriguing how you’ve managed to defend with a back four without a left back. 

[RiverReveal666]

On 21/05/2023 at 17:30, Smallen said:

- Frequently time waste to reflect time taken over set-pieces. Should in theory help with player's condition. 

Excellent OP, thank you for taking the time and sharing this with the community.

in regards to the quoted - Have you seen if this has helped with player condition as your save progressed?

[Smallen]

2 hours ago, RiverReveal666 said:

Excellent OP, thank you for taking the time and sharing this with the community.

in regards to the quoted - Have you seen if this has helped with player condition as your save progressed?

It's not something I've been able to prove, no. But in theory, the less time the ball is in play the less my players will be sprinting about and tiring themselves out. I posted the physical output data earlier and the team is managing a lot of high intensity sprints, but is largely avoiding injuries and managing to complete full games, so perhaps it's contributing? I'm not sure. 

[mrjun]

great post! love your Eddie's interpretation tactic. Qn, is there a reason you're not using Winger Role for your LW ? since there's a Mezzala next to him, Winger provides natural width. @Smallen

[Smallen]

32 minutes ago, mrjun said:

great post! love your Eddie's interpretation tactic. Qn, is there a reason you're not using Winger Role for your LW ? since there's a Mezzala next to him, Winger provides natural width. @Smallen

I will maybe get some examples later when I’m home of how this works, but I don’t want the LW to always be a touchline player like the winger role would be. I also don’t really want them crossing the ball much as that’s not something the left side of Howe’s team does. They prefer to either cut inside for a shot or through ball, or recycle possession around the box.

Sometimes I want them to hold width (and in the ME they do tend to do this in the first phase of build up as my screenshot of the 3-2-5 shape shows), but I also want them to combine with the mezzala to overload the channel between the full back and centre back.

Sometimes I also want the mezzala to overlap them on the outside too.

Edited May 23, 2023 by Smallen

[JonnyHughes]

Been trying this out and enjoying the results and football so far. Only issue I'm having so far is the LW getting poor ratings. Tried a few players there and nothing seems to work properly, could be an issue with personnel on my end tbf

[Smallen]

6 hours ago, Smallen said:

Sometimes I want them to hold width (and in the ME they do tend to do this in the first phase of build up as my screenshot of the 3-2-5 shape shows), but I also want them to combine with the mezzala to overload the channel between the full back and centre back.

 

here's an example of just this, @mrjun

 

The stay wider inverted winger holds their width until the mezzala attracts the full back; opening up the channel between full back and centre back for the inverted winger to attack. The IW then attracts the centre back, opening up the space for the ST. 

A lovely goal. Nice and direct. 

 

[Smallen]

17 hours ago, JonnyHughes said:

Been trying this out and enjoying the results and football so far. Only issue I'm having so far is the LW getting poor ratings. Tried a few players there and nothing seems to work properly, could be an issue with personnel on my end tbf

yeah, I'm yet to try this with other teams. There might be some player traits that don't work there, I'm not sure without testing further. I might try this out with Brighton for a season.

I'll also add that Allan Saint-Maximin started the season poorly for me at LW so I moved Isak there and he started playing well. Then Isak got injured for 3 months so I had to go back to ASM and he was on fire and became undroppable . I think players can be very streaky on FM this year. 

Another thing I've found - since changing my CB from a left-footed player to a right-footed player I don't think we are playing down the right as much as I'd like us to. I will keep testing this, but obviously a lot of this tactic is designed around building most attacks down the right so that might be a problem. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Smallen

[Cloud9]

 

6 hours ago, Smallen said:

yeah, I'm yet to try this with other teams. There might be some player traits that don't work there, I'm not sure without testing further. I might try this out with Brighton for a season.

I'll also add that Allan Saint-Maximin started the season poorly for me at LW so I moved Isak there and he started playing well. Then Isak got injured for 3 months so I had to go back to ASM and he was on fire and became undroppable . I think players can be very streaky on FM this year. 

Another thing I've found - since changing my CB from a right-footed player to a left-footed player I don't think we are playing down the right as much as I'd like us to. I will keep testing this, but obviously a lot of this tactic is designed around building most attacks down the right so that might be a problem. 

They've given Maximin pretty poor stats to be a IW: no end product, poor mentals, and no ability to help out in the buildup play.

• Try him as a Winger (a) on the right for a natural fit, although I get that he's an impact sub for Newcastle off the left this season. If you wanted a higher impact role for him on the left, try him as a W(a) on the left anyways, where he'll come inside a bit more before of his right footedness. 
• Sticking likes to round the keeper in his PIs will help unlock him as well

I've been experimenting with leaving time wasting on in my tactics as well, do you find it slows down your attacks too much? I've yet to see a player ever get booked for time wasting in the ME so that's nice!

Edited May 24, 2023 by Cloud9

[mrjun]

19 hours ago, Smallen said:

here's an example of just this, @mrjun

 

The stay wider inverted winger holds their width until the mezzala attracts the full back; opening up the channel between full back and centre back for the inverted winger to attack. The IW then attracts the centre back, opening up the space for the ST. 

A lovely goal. Nice and direct. 

 

perfect explanation, I see it. it does seem that the LW cuts in early (slightly above middle third) and cuts in. do you use the role 100% of the time, for 90mins? or do you vary it, with example the last 10mins of the game, you use Wide Target Man, or Winger.. to spread the RB away from his CBs ? @Smallen

Edited May 24, 2023 by mrjun

[Smallen]

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

They've given Maximin pretty poor stats to be a IW: no end product, poor mentals, and no ability to help out in the buildup play.

• Try him as a Winger (a) on the right for a natural fit, although I get that he's an impact sub for Newcastle off the left this season. If you wanted a higher impact role for him on the left, try him as a W(a) on the left anyways, where he'll come inside a bit more before of his right footedness. 
• Sticking likes to round the keeper in his PIs will help unlock him as well

Yeah, as I say he started poorly for me but when I brought him back in the second half of the season his form really picked up and he contributed goals and assists. 

Asking him to take less risks, shoot less often and cross left often is what I've done to try and make him a good ball carrier in transition and I think he works well for that. There are reasons I've not used the winger role as I've outlined in a post above. 

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I've been experimenting with leaving time wasting on in my tactics as well, do you find it slows down your attacks too much? I've yet to see a player ever get booked for time wasting in the ME so that's nice!

No, I haven't noticed that. We managed 104 league goals with the original Newcastle squad so our attacking play wasn't a problem. We were just conceding too much which is what I'm trying to work on next...

Edited May 24, 2023 by Smallen

[Obaaa]

This was a really good read and an interesting take on Eddie's tactics, particularly your choice of formation. A little disappointing that it appears you happened upon some sort of corner exploit but impressive recreation all the same.

[Skywalk3r83]

What a great tactic! Start using this with my Ajax team and eventually I made a 433 of it.

TACTIC

Games played from January 1st.

Last match against Man City

2

If people want to us this, you can find my tactic here below.
OI is the same as @Smallen 

Howe's 433.fmf

[alanfishead]

Great read and the closest recreation I've seen to EH. Especially the link up down the right side and also the the way the Mez performs. Willock currently on 15 goals and 2 assists in 34 games.

@Smallen Interested to know what changes you make, if any, for games against bigger sides. I've tried going to a back four with a FBs with Hold potistion and Sit Narrower. Also switching the Regista to DLPs for more defensive solidity but I lose a lot of attacking threat. 

[Smallen]

7 minutes ago, alanfishead said:

Great read and the closest recreation I've seen to EH. Especially the link up down the right side and also the the way the Mez performs. Willock currently on 15 goals and 2 assists in 34 games.

@Smallen Interested to know what changes you make, if any, for games against bigger sides. I've tried going to a back four with a FBs with Hold potistion and Sit Narrower. Also switching the Regista to DLPs for more defensive solidity but I lose a lot of attacking threat. 

I've struggled against the big teams. 

However, one thing that seems to have started working for me - when I'm facing a bigger team with a central striker who has the "likes to beat offside trap" I've found them to be pretty deadly against this tactic. Rashford played there for Man U in a game and tore me apart, Haaland did and tore us apart (but we beat City when he didn't play) as well. So now on those games I've changed the central CB to a cover duty and that seems to work better for those games (but only those games - it's worse in other games when I've tried it).

I'm going to start trying a mid or even low block (but same PI/OIs) in these games too I think. Newcastle have played a lower block against these teams away from home at times IRL this season so it's worth trying to make it work.

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Another thing I'm going to try at some point is creating a second tactic for how Howe plays against teams who play with a 5-3-2 or 5-2-2-1. When the opposition have a very narrow pressing structure like this Howe changes the back four quite dramatically. He'll play Trippier much deeper and narrower, with Burn taking up a very similar position on the other side and he'll build with more of a 4-2 shape where both full backs are always free for a switch of play. He did this the other night against Leicester and has done it vs Spurs this season too. 

[Fudal]

Brilliantly written, and great results!

[alanfishead]

13 hours ago, Smallen said:

I'm going to start trying a mid or even low block (but same PI/OIs) in these games too I think. Newcastle have played a lower block against these teams away from home at times IRL this season so it's worth trying to make it work.

I've been trying something similar but still tweaking. Just played Liverpool at home and started with the standard tactic trying to get off to a fast start which worked. Went 2-0 up early. Towards the end of the half though, Liverpool really pushed forward and we struggled to contain them and they got one back. Switched to this at half time. 

  

Changes to PIs:

CMs

FBs

We were so much better defensively in the second half and great on the counter. Eventually finished with a 5-1 win. Obviously this is situational and was mainly driven by Liverpool wide players running riot cutting inside and getting in behind. So I dropped to a back 4 but still allowing Trips to get forward on the break. Dan Burn at LB still acted as a third CB when in possession so patterns of play still similar. Won't work in every game, but just and idea of what can work.

[Smallen]

good stuff @alanfishead! Those seem like realistic and sensible tweaks for that kind of game. Liverpool’s biggest threat is their RW so it makes sense to move Dan over to deal with him directly.

 

[Smallen]

enjoyed this video on Howe's setup for anyone interested.

[janesy20]

Fantastic post and really interesting insight. As a Newcastle fan I've sat and thought how to replicate Howe's tactics for ages and in all honesty I was very close to this version and really thought about deploying Burn as a FB (def) or WCB (def) but didn't like the exposure to that flank. I also did not utilize the PIs as much as I should. I don't feel like this is a plug and play when I use this moving forwards, more so filling in the blanks. Thank you!

 

Edit: To add further critique to myself, I  was too structured in the formation trying to fit into a 4-1-2-2-1 and felt in my head I'd often seen Joelinton pop-up IRL on the left hand-side so was struggling with that. Shame Longstaff isn't more effective on FM23 he's been key for us this season, sorely missed him when he was injured. It has been a joy to watch every game this season which I never thought I'd say being a Newcastle fan

Edited June 2, 2023 by janesy20

[Smallen]

Have been tweaking my original tactic a fair bit since posting but not happy with it yet. Also been working on a secondary tactic for when we play against a narrow pressing shape (5-3-2, 5-2-2-1 etc). These are some principles I want to implement though:

- More often than not, from goal kicks the backline will set up for short distribution but Pope will go long anyway. Form a data standpoint Pope is one of the longest kickers in the league and Newcastle don't seem to mind if this loses possession because the counter-press or ability to win the second ball high up is so strong. 

- Allow creative freedom to deviate from the attacking structure occasionally as outlined in the video posted a couple of posts up

- Getting Bruno Guimaraes forward more often in transitions to support counters

- Fabian Schar's long passes, switches of play and through balls to the LW:

 

Edited June 3, 2023 by Smallen

[hbsssj]

Really like this topic, very interesting read. And what about secondary tactic and changes in the original? I'd love see them

[steesh86]

Interesting post and tactic. @Smallen what training regime do you use to ensure the squad plays with the intensity and fitness required to meet the demands of Howe's way of playing? I've done some research online, but there isn't much in the way of info out there as to what a general training week under Howe entails and looks like.

[Diverisma158]

En 25/5/2023 a las 12:32, alanfishead dijo:

I've been trying something similar but still tweaking. Just played Liverpool at home and started with the standard tactic trying to get off to a fast start which worked. Went 2-0 up early. Towards the end of the half though, Liverpool really pushed forward and we struggled to contain them and they got one back. Switched to this at half time. 

  

Changes to PIs:

CMs

FBs

We were so much better defensively in the second half and great on the counter. Eventually finished with a 5-1 win. Obviously this is situational and was mainly driven by Liverpool wide players running riot cutting inside and getting in behind. So I dropped to a back 4 but still allowing Trips to get forward on the break. Dan Burn at LB still acted as a third CB when in possession so patterns of play still similar. Won't work in every game, but just and idea of what can work.

hi, only u have 2 PI? or have more??

[alanfishead]

12 hours ago, Diverisma158 said:

hi, only u have 2 PI? or have more??

These are the 2 positions that are different to the original tactic that was created by @Smallen. I’ve changed the two I mentioned when moving into a back 4.

For reference, this same tactic doesn’t work that well in the FM24 ME currently but that might be down to initial bugs in the beta. Seen a lot of comments about high scoring games, poor goalkeeping etc which reflects what I see.

Using the new IFB role for Dan Burn sounds like it should work however IRL he still provides width albeit from a deep position. As an IFB he sits too narrow and doesn’t support the left wing enough. FBs is a closer replication of his positioning IMO with Schar staying wider on the opposite side.

Will start testing more once the full game is released.