How to soak up pressure and hit a team on the counter as an underdog? [UPDATED for FM24]

Cloud9 · November 8, 2023

On 06/11/2023 at 02:40, ultrAslan said:

Did someone already tested counter attacking tactics on the match engine for FM 24?

SV works a lot better with the PP changes for a counter attack, basically fluid styles are much more accessible than before which is great. Would recommend constructing on Postive mentality for counters this year. No more fining of players for poor performances is a big nerf for our counter attacks, you'll need to prioritize recruitment for Determination, and more importantly Workrate, in a way you didn't have to previously. Set piece rework has the potential to be quite cool since "play for set pieces" is big for counter attack teams IRL, but my concern is that it will be easy to exploit. Defensive set pieces however, don't have this problem so you can invest heavily here. As always setting up the boys to launch a counter from defensive set pieces I would strongly recommend.

I'm experimenting about with a 5-3-2 in the Atletico Madrid/Spanish style of defensive football in my own save. 4-2-4 looks particularly interesting with the positional play (featuring an SV in the DM slot), but I'm not overly fond of this formation IRL. I don't see too many teams running it since controlling the midfield is pivotal to most matches and PSG's comprehensive defeat to Newcastle in the Champions League utilizing the tactic has made me question its relevance in modern football altogether. 3-4-2-1 looks great under positional play changes but it's always a big ask of your solo striker in this setup (good once you've good your players in the door, but difficult to get promoted from the Championship with). 4-3-3 is the other option I'd look to in late stages of a save (w/high quality players running a counter attack).

5-3-2 with a Regista as a DM in particular was my favored style at the end of FM23 and I'm looking to transition that to 24. I've been trying to add "play out from the back" to my counter attacks with more success this year and the 5 at the back system helps that greatly while keeping those mean central pressing traps and cover for the wide defenders. I'm also looking to play without advanced forwards altogether in this edition. Time wasting is something I'm trying to add successfully to my counter attack as well, w/out slowing it down.

Will try to write something when I have a bit more experience with the new system :thup:

Edited November 8, 2023 by Cloud9

kazm · November 8, 2023

I'm trying to use a 3421 tactic with Atalanta. Not going horrible but also not going great atm, still trying to figure out how to play exactly.

Some things I noticed:

- I switched from DLP to DMC-s (with PI's for passing), but then my team started focusing a lot on the right flank, the side the DMCs (Koopmeijners that game) was on. I'm hoping using a DLP-s fixes this a bit. Because a DLP seems to be more involved in the play.

- During this game I noticed my WBR (Hateboer that game), often was in a lot of space, but even though I was using 'pass into space' the ball was pretty much always passed either into his feet, or short. Meaning he either had to wait or come to the ball, both costing time. This seems to be a trend in general.

- Made worse by players being static. I pretty much use the 3421 posted on the 2nd page of this thread with Koopmeijners as AMC-s (trying him there because he is more a playmaker then de Ketelaere) and Ketelaere or Lookman AMC-a. It feels like my team responds sluggish in attacking transitions and static in possession. I have seen some nice attacks but those usually come at the end of games and I only see a few of them per game.

Basically I rarely see counters and not a lot of interplay between the amcs and the striker. I am trying Scamacca both as an ADF-a and a CF-a btw.

Cloud9 · November 8, 2023

6 hours ago, kazm said:

I'm trying to use a 3421 tactic with Atalanta. Not going horrible but also not going great atm, still trying to figure out how to play exactly.

Some things I noticed:

- I switched from DLP to DMC-s (with PI's for passing), but then my team started focusing a lot on the right flank, the side the DMCs (Koopmeijners that game) was on. I'm hoping using a DLP-s fixes this a bit. Because a DLP seems to be more involved in the play.

- During this game I noticed my WBR (Hateboer that game), often was in a lot of space, but even though I was using 'pass into space' the ball was pretty much always passed either into his feet, or short. Meaning he either had to wait or come to the ball, both costing time. This seems to be a trend in general.

- Made worse by players being static. I pretty much use the 3421 posted on the 2nd page of this thread with Koopmeijners as AMC-s (trying him there because he is more a playmaker then de Ketelaere) and Ketelaere or Lookman AMC-a. It feels like my team responds sluggish in attacking transitions and static in possession. I have seen some nice attacks but those usually come at the end of games and I only see a few of them per game.

Basically I rarely see counters and not a lot of interplay between the amcs and the striker. I am trying Scamacca both as an ADF-a and a CF-a btw.

I think the core of the issue is around your striker. You're running a solo striker w/out pace, which means you just aren't too much of a threat to the opposition when you turnover the ball. If you've got Scamacca I would strongly recommend running him in a striker partnership w/a role where he can hold up the ball for a striker with pace. From your squad Lookman and El Bilal Toure are the players I'd use for that spearheading role. Of the two, I would run Toure as the number one (train up his off the ball as much as possible). On the issue you mention about players playing the ball into feet too much, that can happen with a DLP(s) who will primarily look to recycle possession when he's on the ball. Tinkering with his PIs can help, but a role like regista will offer more line breakers into space.

On Fm24 the roles that trigger rotations in the midfield are: HB, SV, RPM, BBM, CM(a), AP, MEZ. I would try introducing a couple of those roles to address the static issue you mention/to play to the formations strengths (also for fun ). On your midfielders, putting the flair/technical players on the side of their strong foot (De Ketelaere on the left etc.) can help unlock their crossing ability, which is always great for counter play. Dropping the directness a notch could help here as well.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Cloud9

Cloud9 · November 13, 2023

So uh SOS.

I've abandoned my cute 4-4-2 w/this little announcement from the board after my promotion. RIP fun 4-4-2.

I've attached the 4-4-2 anyways. It concedes a lot of goals but it also lets you score great goals like this while still running a low block counter attack (and w/out the usual high tempo/direct etc.). Jovic is the WP who makes the dipping run before playing the through ball. Also disclaimer the score of this game was 5-3 against Southampton so that's the shenanigans you're signing up for.

(Sorry about the horrendous quality, the file was too big previously and idk how to do these things properly).

In other news, any ideas how to stay up with a negative warchest from the board and a 10% transfer revenue available? I would have to sell 110m pounds of players before even being allowed to sign a free transfer or adjust the wage/transfer budget...not sure how this is going to work. I'm going to put together a more practical 5-3-2 to attempt to scrap survival in the prem, will try to keep some of the principles from the 4-4-2 if I can.

Unless anyone has other ideas, I'm going to do some loans and then just give new contracts to keep the current squad as is to battle against relegation. Weakest teams other than us are Southampton, Leeds, and Nottingham Forest who are all titans compared to my boys. Any tips or ways to navigate the current predicament would be greatly appreciated

Edit: I found two work arounds, both of which I think might break the rules of my save so I'm not sure I'm going to use them. I play w/out paid loans + all transfer fees paid up front.

You can offer a player a contract w/high enough wages + no signing on fee/agent fee which will allow you to sign player's on a negative budget w/ a future transfer fee arranged. It also makes free transfers possible.
Loans with a future fee arranged are another loop hole. This one is only possible if you have funds allocated for the following season.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Cloud9

November 13, 2023

19 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

So uh SOS.

I've abandoned my cute 4-4-2 w/this little announcement from the board after my promotion. RIP fun 4-4-2.

I've attached the 4-4-2 anyways. It concedes a lot of goals but it also lets you score great goals like this while still running a low block counter attack (and w/out the usual high tempo/direct etc.). Jovic is the WP who makes the dipping run before playing the through ball. Also disclaimer the score of this game was 5-3 against Southampton so that's the shenanigans you're signing up for.

(Sorry about the horrendous quality, the file was too big previously and idk how to do these things properly).

In other news, any ideas how to stay up with a negative warchest from the board and a 10% transfer revenue available? I would have to sell 110m pounds of players before even being allowed to sign a free transfer or adjust the wage/transfer budget...not sure how this is going to work. I'm going to put together a more practical 5-3-2 to attempt to scrap survival in the prem, will try to keep some of the principles from the 4-4-2 if I can.

Unless anyone has other ideas, I'm going to do some loans and then just give new contracts to keep the current squad as is to battle against relegation. Weakest teams other than us are Southampton, Leeds, and Nottingham Forest who are all titans compared to my boys. Any tips or ways to navigate the current predicament would be greatly appreciated

Edit: I found two work arounds, both of which I think might break the rules of my save so I'm not sure I'm going to use them. I play w/out paid loans + all transfer fees paid up front.

You can offer a player a contract w/high enough wages + no signing on fee/agent fee which will allow you to sign player's on a negative budget w/ a future transfer fee arranged. It also makes free transfers possible.

Loans with a future fee arranged are another loop hole. This one is only possible if you have funds allocated for the following season.

I don't have any tips you probably don't already know, I just wanted to comment that after doing a Wednesday save myself I can't believe you haven't gotten rid of Windass yet 🤣

Cloud9 · November 14, 2023

3 hours ago, BlitzkriegBob25 said:

I don't have any tips you probably don't already know, I just wanted to comment that after doing a Wednesday save myself I can't believe you haven't gotten rid of Windass yet 🤣

He's not so bad! He scored that great goal to send us back to the Championship last year, difficult for me to sell him after that. In game, he partners well with Smith in a big man/little man combo. I think he would struggle as a solo striker.

All I want from my spearheading forward is off the ball and some pace and he's got some of that. Although I agree that he'll struggle to be as effective this season with the step up in quality to the prem + being over 30 now.

Cool to see them implement actual finical repercussions for clubs this year, will be an interesting challenge.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cloud9

November 14, 2023

14 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

He's not so bad! He scored that great goal to send us back to the Championship last year, difficult for me to sell him after that. In game, he partners well with Smith in a big man/little man combo. I think he would struggle as a solo striker.

All I want from my spearheading forward is off the ball and some pace and he's got some of that. Although I agree that he'll struggle to be as effective this season with the step up in quality to the prem + being over 30 now.

Cool to see them implement actual finical repercussions for clubs this year, will be an interesting challenge.

For me it's his mentals, low teamwork and aggression. Not the end of the world for either but also not someone I minded moving on either.

Domoboy23 · November 14, 2023

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

He's not so bad! He scored that great goal to send us back to the Championship last year, difficult for me to sell him after that. In game, he partners well with Smith in a big man/little man combo. I think he would struggle as a solo striker.

All I want from my spearheading forward is off the ball and some pace and he's got some of that. Although I agree that he'll struggle to be as effective this season with the step up in quality to the prem + being over 30 now.

Cool to see them implement actual finical repercussions for clubs this year, will be an interesting challenge.

Oooh what have they added this year?

Also for Windass with how he is on twitter and from stories I heard when he was at us (Huddersfield) and who his dad is, thought his aggression and shithousery would be 20's all round!

Cloud9 · November 14, 2023

1 hour ago, Domoboy23 said:

Oooh what have they added this year?

Also for Windass with how he is on twitter and from stories I heard when he was at us (Huddersfield) and who his dad is, thought his aggression and shithousery would be 20's all round!

Basically if your club is heavily in debt, you're handed a negative transfer budget as a reward. That's regardless of performance, for example I was promoted from the Championship and got a -11m balance to sort out my relegation scrap with since the club has debt over 100m IRL and in game. It's also more difficult to move players on this year, with the AI less willing to do terrible business.

On previous versions your debt didn't impact you at all. I think my annual save with Sheffield Wednesday saw an allocated budget of 40m or something on FM23 when I gained promotion.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cloud9

November 14, 2023

3 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

Oooh what have they added this year?

Also for Windass with how he is on twitter and from stories I heard when he was at us (Huddersfield) and who his dad is, thought his aggression and shithousery would be 20's all round!

That's the version of him I need right now lol

Cloud9 · November 28, 2023

Here's a structured 4-3-3 that sets you up to counter attack and offers the ability to trap inside or outside depending on the opposition you're facing. I'd recommend utilizing some sort of trap this year if you're looking to attempt a more conservative approach to the game.

Width can be dropped down to fairly narrow + more direct passing vs especially difficult opposition.
The defensive line can be bumped up vs slow frontlines.

I've avoided wingbacks in favor of a more stable backline and as always, the winger(a) is a right footed player off the left hand side. DM(s) has hold position, FB(s) I ask to run wide with the ball. The Stopper/Cover combo I've stepped away from as the impact on defensive structure seemed too high.

See earlier posts here on attributes to look for when executing a mid block (general guidelines is no passengers), ways to execute a pressing trap itself, and how to tailor passing instructions to more efficiently launch the counter. That being said, I'd prioritize some height on the DM for this setup.

I was running into some troubles with 5 at the back systems and was a little bored of the 3-4-2-1 approach to the game, so this was my solution.

The systems strong point is its flexibility imo, so I'd recommend tailoring your game to the specific opposition you're playing for the best results.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Cloud9

ultrAslan · November 30, 2023

Thank you for your contribution again on this topic @Cloud9. Great to see that you picked up the counter philosophy on FM24.

On 28/11/2023 at 23:27, Cloud9 said:

Width can be dropped down to fairly narrow + more direct passing vs especially difficult opposition.

The defensive line can be bumped up vs slow frontlines.

Im also applying these points against any opponent when I analyze them. Especially when they have slow frontplayers. I move up the D-line.

just wondering why you step up from the defensive mentality. How do you like the idea of pass into space with a high d-line? And you are not covering the center or is the DM-s role enough to cover because that he is not roaming so much?

Nice trick you did with the wingers with the wrong foot so they play as an winger and inside forwardish role.

will try your setup or a mix of that on my save, because the 4-3-3 is my favourite formation.

Cloud9 · November 30, 2023

9 hours ago, ultrAslan said:

Thank you for your contribution again on this topic @Cloud9. Great to see that you picked up the counter philosophy on FM24.

Im also applying these points against any opponent when I analyze them. Especially when they have slow frontplayers. I move up the D-line.

just wondering why you step up from the defensive mentality. How do you like the idea of pass into space with a high d-line? And you are not covering the center or is the DM-s role enough to cover because that he is not roaming so much?

Nice trick you did with the wingers with the wrong foot so they play as an winger and inside forwardish role.

will try your setup or a mix of that on my save, because the 4-3-3 is my favourite formation.

I was using a Positive mentality since I wanted to be a little more proactive with a 4-3-3. With a 5 at the back system or compact 4-4-2 I feel pretty comfortable soaking up pressure and playing more passively (and you don't have those extra layers of protection with a 4-3-3).

On TIS:

Pass into space shouldn't be affected by the high defensive line since the LOE is the same, it just compacts the defensive area which we press in. I mostly just use it to exploit a lack of pace from the opposition (tackle harder, step up more can be useful additons combined with a HDL), which gives a more efficient pressing area + reduces the potential for fouls in dangerous areas.
- If the goalkeeper is capable, switching him to SK w/ a high line is then preferable. I prefer a standard GK in my counter attacks as they're more conservative with their passing and I primarily want to prioritize shot stopping attributes.
If the paces of the two teams are similar, I would just keep the line of engagement at standard.
When the opposition are much quick than you, adding "drop off more" to a standard line of engagement can help to deal with through balls.

On Roles:

DM(s) is my go to role these days for a solo DM.
- HB is a great aggressive sweeper, but channels play down the flanks too much (FM does this a lot already).
  - Effective, but a plays to the ME strengths I think. Avoiding HB's (in a back 4) like I've avoided AF's these days.
- I'd consider a RGA swap if you've got a complete star boy DM, in which case I would run a RGA, BWM(s), MEZ(s) trio.
  - The Regista's passing range is excellent for any counter attack style, but it would introduce a ball magnet playmaker into the buildup play.
  - In the current setup the MEZ(a) is the main creative outlet in our midfield 3.
- DM(s) gives me pretty much everything I'm looking for in a DM, and doesn't require anything too fancy to make it work (aside from height).
  - With two hard working 8's in front of him, he should have plenty of support to hold down the center of the pitch.
  - The higher start position is what I prefer over its DM(d) counterpart.

Hope it works well for you I've enjoyed the hands on approach this requires. I think the style of football is Newcastle United esque if you wanted a real world team comparison.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Cloud9

Cloud9 · December 8, 2023

Another little update after some more tinkering on my end:

Set pieces!

I would spend a significant amount of time setting these up defensively this year. A huge amount of the goals (1 in 3 or 4?) scored are coming from set pieces in my own save, and if you've set up incorrectly the AI can be clever. They're happy to play a cute little ball around your wall and the free man pokes the ball in, very annoying. The indirect free kick did my team 2-3 times before I did a deep dive on my set piece setup.
Via corners: Defender height, aggressive/tall GK are therefore helpful in shutting down those headers off a corner.
- This is one of the reasons I'd recommend a back 4 atm, the shorter CBs in a back 3 are less impactful defending a set piece.

Trapping inside/Outside

Almost every back 4 AI I run into is utilzing an IWB, which means they'll put 4 midfielders against you. This can make trapping outside for a lot of matches a very effective approach, on previous FMs you could trap inside for fun.
- I mentioned this in the earlier post, but using some kind of trap helps a lot this year.
The AI is also better at breaking you down than before w/the IWB (they're not just running at you w/their WBs). Structured play is still workable, but I would recommend playing less passively.
- A role like the RGA can help you play on lower mentalities as he will frequently play those line breaking passes.

Back 3 formations

I'm still trying to work out a strong mid block 5-3-2 that feels defensively resolute. I've found the 5-2-3 (2 wide attackers) to work effectively on a low block, and although the style is extremely direct, it can help to expose the weaknesses in an IWB set up.
4-4-2/4-3-3 would be my recommendation for anyone struggling to set up defensively with the new changes.

Hope that is helpful! Big takeaway I think are preparing for those pesky set pieces.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Cloud9

Vinay17 · December 8, 2023

hace 2 horas, Cloud9 dijo:

Trapping inside/Outside

Almost every back 4 AI I run into is utilzing an IWB, which means they'll put 4 midfielders against you. This can make trapping outside for a lot of matches a very effective approach, on previous FMs you could trap inside for fun.

I mentioned this in the earlier post, but using some kind of trap helps a lot this year.

The AI is also better at breaking you down than before w/the IWB (they're not just running at you w/their WBs). Structured play is still workable, but I would recommend playing less passively.

A role like the RGA can help you play on lower mentalities as he will frequently play those line breaking passes.

Would you trap inside or outside in this tactic?

Do you recognize any flawless by the way? Im trying to play counterattack with double pivot, but Im unexpierenced, need advice thanks.

What type of recruitment would you do for counter attack systems?

Cloud9 · December 9, 2023

21 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

Would you trap inside or outside in this tactic?

Do you recognize any flawless by the way? Im trying to play counterattack with double pivot, but Im unexpierenced, need advice thanks.

What type of recruitment would you do for counter attack systems?

I like the current setup! Some cool combos like the SV/W and less used roles in here :thup:

My main concern would be bypassing the IF, and particularly the EG, in the direct approach. The Enganche will be pretty static, and you'll probably have to carry him in defensive phases of play. A tall Enganche acting as a deep TF could be a way to take advantage of your Poacher's positioning and the Enganche's ball magnet status as a playmaker (This combo was originally @Johnny Ace idea btw). I might look to recycle the IF role for one that combines a bit better with the Poacher, an off footed winger on attack would give you some real punch and goal threat but you could equally run an IW(a) on that left hand side. If the Enganche ends up making your approach play too one dimensional, swapping him out for an AMC(s) can give a more varied approach w Passing Meter adjustments among the rest of the squad.

I'd primarily look to trap outside w/ this tactic, since most tactics w/an inverted wingback will look to play in the central areas, out number you, and break you down. Not every game though.

On attributes, I think I detailed what I look for on defensively sound players earlier in the thread but @crusadertsar did a comprehensive review of them on a recent write up you can check out here:

For a counter attacking midblock the majority of principles apply, except we want to prioritize aggressive attributes within the midfield itself (Aggression, Bravery, Anticipation, Tackling) where we want to primarily challenge for the ball. On the backline I'm looking for strong mentals + physical profiles, who I want to be able to count on in defensive situations. Once I hit the Championship I'm looking for players w/mentals of a minimum of 11/12 to not be a liability.

On recruitment:

I'd look for a complete poacher, someone who's tall and quick w/good off the ball. As your main goal threat you'll need him to perform every week so consistency is a must.
Quick wide players will make you a real threat on the break. The quicker the better really. I look for one of my two wide attackers to be strong in attributes like Teamwork/Work Ethic as well.
A quick/tall center back partnership is pivotal for a counter attack back 4 approach since there's more 1v1 battles.
- A fun bonus is a BPD with the ability to dribble (and the PI).
A reliable GK is key to any defensive tactic, Aerial reach is #1.
I'd also look for a DM capable of passing the ball a bit more than the Anchor. Height on that player can be really nice as well.
Finally, good personality players go a long way in a defensive counter style of play. I don't think I can stress enough how important this is in your recruitment.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Cloud9

dannyfc · December 9, 2023

On 28/11/2023 at 22:27, Cloud9 said:

Here's a structured 4-3-3 that sets you up to counter attack and offers the ability to trap inside or outside depending on the opposition you're facing. I'd recommend utilizing some sort of trap this year if you're looking to attempt a more conservative approach to the game.

Width can be dropped down to fairly narrow + more direct passing vs especially difficult opposition.

The defensive line can be bumped up vs slow frontlines.

I've avoided wingbacks in favor of a more stable backline and as always, the winger(a) is a right footed player off the left hand side. DM(s) has hold position, FB(s) I ask to run wide with the ball. The Stopper/Cover combo I've stepped away from as the impact on defensive structure seemed too high.

See earlier posts here on attributes to look for when executing a mid block (general guidelines is no passengers), ways to execute a pressing trap itself, and how to tailor passing instructions to more efficiently launch the counter. That being said, I'd prioritize some height on the DM for this setup.

I was running into some troubles with 5 at the back systems and was a little bored of the 3-4-2-1 approach to the game, so this was my solution.

The systems strong point is its flexibility imo, so I'd recommend tailoring your game to the specific opposition you're playing for the best results.

How defensively sold is a DM(s) compared to an Anchor man or DM(d)? How would they differ positionally? Doesn't it risk exposing the CBs?

I'm always be weary of not having any defensive roles in midfield, so be interested to know if that's too risk adverse.

Also in regard to quickness, my front three all have 14 pace which feels just on the threshold of 'quick'. You think that's adequate or should I adopt a less direct style?

Edited December 9, 2023 by dannyfc

Cloud9 · December 9, 2023

10 hours ago, dannyfc said:

How defensively sold is a DM(s) compared to an Anchor man or DM(d)? How would they differ positionally? Doesn't it risk exposing the CBs?

I'm always be weary of not having any defensive roles in midfield, so be interested to know if that's too risk adverse.

Also in regard to quickness, my front three all have 14 pace which feels just on the threshold of 'quick'. You think that's adequate or should I adopt a less direct style?

They're my go to DM role these days. I think it's more about the attributes of the DM player I'd prioritize over a specific role.

The higher positioning is nice, both in and out of possession.
- I want them challenging for the ball a bit earlier and to offer a central passing outlet to link defence and attack
You can play them w/or w/out hold position on them.
- Since they're a blank role, you don't have added baggage under the hood and can completely customize the PIs as you'd like as well.
If in a pairing, two support position DM's will keep them in line with each other, which I prefer for defensive structure.
- A solo DM(s) works great as well.

But yea I'm more picky about the profile of DM I recruit to play the position. Height is a big deal, which is a shift you see in the modern game w/ French center backs converted to play the position.

What level are you playing at? That will dictate how quick the forwards are. For a top flight level, I would say 14 pace is pretty slow, but the acceleration you'd need to take into account as well (ie. can they hit top speed). My general feeling is that 15 is decent, but once you hit 16 you're starting to threaten with the pace specifically.

Once you've got an attribute at 17, they're probably better at that specific thing than anyone else on the pitch, so you can start to play to that strength. In a counter attack, having one attacker with 17 pace makes you scary to the opposition when they're in possession.
I'd try to have at least one of your attackers be rapid, it's one of the reasons a traditional Winger role can be nice. These players don't have to have good mentals to be effective for you, and w/dribbling, flair + pace and a bit of crossing you've got a brilliant player.
- I picked up Largie Ramazani, a Belgian winger, on my save in FM23. I don't think he had crazy potential or anything but he had that profile (18 acceleration, 17 pace + two footed) and he made us a huge threat when the ball turned over.
You can check out the 1v1 match ups in their defensive line and see where you have an advantage.

If you don't have a rapid frontline you can still counter attack, but you might not want to pass into space + play a little more actively within the match itself.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Cloud9

dannyfc · December 10, 2023

16 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

They're my go to DM role these days. I think it's more about the attributes of the DM player I'd prioritize over a specific role.

The higher positioning is nice, both in and out of possession.

I want them challenging for the ball a bit earlier and to offer a central passing outlet to link defence and attack

You can play them w/or w/out hold position on them.

Since they're a blank role, you don't have added baggage under the hood and can completely customize the PIs as you'd like as well.

If in a pairing, two support position DM's will keep them in line with each other, which I prefer for defensive structure.

A solo DM(s) works great as well.

But yea I'm more picky about the profile of DM I recruit to play the position. Height is a big deal, which is a shift you see in the modern game w/ French center backs converted to play the position.

What level are you playing at? That will dictate how quick the forwards are. For a top flight level, I would say 14 pace is pretty slow, but the acceleration you'd need to take into account as well (ie. can they hit top speed). My general feeling is that 15 is decent, but once you hit 16 you're starting to threaten with the pace specifically.

Once you've got an attribute at 17, they're probably better at that specific thing than anyone else on the pitch, so you can start to play to that strength. In a counter attack, having one attacker with 17 pace makes you scary to the opposition when they're in possession.

I'd try to have at least one of your attackers be rapid, it's one of the reasons a traditional Winger role can be nice. These players don't have to have good mentals to be effective for you, and w/dribbling, flair + pace and a bit of crossing you've got a brilliant player.

I picked up Largie Ramazani, a Belgian winger, on my save in FM23. I don't think he had crazy potential or anything but he had that profile (18 acceleration, 17 pace + two footed) and he made us a huge threat when the ball turned over.

You can check out the 1v1 match ups in their defensive line and see where you have an advantage.

If you don't have a rapid frontline you can still counter attack, but you might not want to pass into space + play a little more actively within the match itself.

Great, thanks. Maybe I'll drop pass into space in the meantime.

I'm in the Championship, my team is probably below average hence the desire to play on the counter. However paradoxically I'm dominating the ball but just can't seem to unlock defences.

I've always assumed that direct passing is a necessity for counters, but based on your mentality which determines short I'm assuming that's not true. Would you say high tempo is a requirement?

With regards to wingers, I'm looking at few in pre-season but with my budget it's rare to find 16+ pace without extreme deficits in other areas.

Bit of a tangent but how important are balance/agility? I've got my eye on this guy but unsure if he'd be that effective in the Championship. My targetman is dominant so as look as he can whip in some crosses it might work

These are my current wingers. Technically decent but struggling to make much impact

Edited December 10, 2023 by dannyfc

Cloud9 · December 11, 2023

15 hours ago, dannyfc said:

Great, thanks. Maybe I'll drop pass into space in the meantime.

I'm in the Championship, my team is probably below average hence the desire to play on the counter. However paradoxically I'm dominating the ball but just can't seem to unlock defences.

I've always assumed that direct passing is a necessity for counters, but based on your mentality which determines short I'm assuming that's not true. Would you say high tempo is a requirement?

With regards to wingers, I'm looking at few in pre-season but with my budget it's rare to find 16+ pace without extreme deficits in other areas.

Bit of a tangent but how important are balance/agility? I've got my eye on this guy but unsure if he'd be that effective in the Championship. My targetman is dominant so as look as he can whip in some crosses it might work

These are my current wingers. Technically decent but struggling to make much impact

I wouldn't say the mentality is making the pass directness short. I do most of the passing instructions within the PIs of the player's themselves. A Positive Counter attack will progress the ball quite quickly. I mostly pick mentality in a counter setup based on how high I want the overall intensity to be/how passive the team can afford to defend. You could play with the tempo bar in the middle of the slider, but below that would be difficult. Direct/high tempo are the fundamentals I'd fall back.

These wingers look great, especially for the Championship. I think as along as they've got around 14 pace/acceleration they should be able to cut it just fine in that league. They don't get too involved in buildup play (so they don't need to pass) and you're just asking them to do one aspect of the game (take on their man) so mentals aren't that key for them either. W/ frontline players like these you can look to pass into space to get the most out of them.

The 21 year old Spanish kid looks like a player you might look to play centrally. Think I'd want him as a MEZ(a), but you'd have to carry his defensive work (he can take set pieces so it might be worth doing that). That role can pair nicely with a winger.

On the agi/balance question:

They're similar attributes, a bit like the attacking/defending version of each other (Agi attacking, balance defending). If they've got both it's a great bonus for any player looking to run with the ball & makes them more difficult to knock off it. In combination, it can also serve as a substitute for low strength on a player. This applies to defensive situations as well w/decent tackling.
Balance is the more important attribute imo and is a key on several positions. Playmakers, aerial threats, goalkeepers, & those who hold up the ball will all benefit from the attribute. If a player's got high balance you can build around them a bit.

On the winger in question, his 10 balance isn't ideal, but nothing unfixable. Just put him on an individual training regime for it and he'll be a great W(a) for you who will fall over less often His crossing isn't great, but his main strength is that he can reliability threaten to beat his man in 1v1.

Traits like "rounds the keeper" are great on players like this.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Cloud9

Vinay17 · January 29

I don't want to let this awesome thread finish so I'm gonna show you what I came up with.
Currently I´m managing Sociedad Deportiva Huesca which is on the second division at Spain in my journeyman save. I take the job when the team was on relegation zone, after 12 games, we could leave the relegation zone, and reach till 14th (we were 19th).

I take control of the team on the last day of transfers, so I move fastly to get a pacey winger knowing that I need to play a counterattack style. One of the best players on the squad is a Gambian right footed-only who can cross, finish, heading, very pacey and can play on the left wing so after twinkering a little bit I came up with this.

Have to say that the whipped crosses didn't help me yet so far. The aim and what I´m trying to do here is to create an overload on the left, to switch quickly to the right after recycling possesion through the DM(s) or the AM(s) where the VOL(s) and the W(a) can play a 2v1 against the respective FB, that´s the aim when in possesion, I haven´t reached so many goals like this idk why yet.

The other thing that I have success with is playing the counters with a low block instead of a mid block, dont really know why it is more complicated for me to play counters at a mid block. Maybe team´s lack of aggression is one of the reasons, if you noticed I don´t play with more often trigger press because I like to use more OI, for more orientated traps and more often when I play Stopper/Cover combo on my CBs (I have a CB that has really low agression as low strenght and jumping reach).

My W(a) and my WTM(s):

Sometimes I try to change the approach of the tactic, as you can see the WTM has very good finishing skills and is really good in the air, so I play one of the subs, that are more reliable as they are right footed wingers on the right to get better crosses to the far post.

This are them (I play the second one as an IW on the left):

ultrAslan · February 7

Coming back with an update on my quest to master soaking up pressure and hitting teams on the counter in Football Manager! After posting my original question during my FM 23 days, I've since moved on to experimenting with counter-attacking tactics in FM 24.

I'm excited to share the tactic that I've fine-tuned, which has served me incredibly well against top-tier teams in the Champions League, helping me secure back-to-back Champions League trophies. The screenshot attached shows the setup that has brought my team great success. By setting up with a cautious mentality and focusing on a quick transition play, my team has been able to capitalize on the counter-attacks effectively.

Here's the screenshot of the tactic that made it all possible:

In depth about the player roles and duties:

Advanced Forward (AF): This player is the tip of our spear, constantly probing the defensive line and ready to exploit any space behind the opposition's backline.
PI: Close Down More

Winger (W - Attack) and Inverted Winger (IW - Support): Flank players with contrasting roles; the Winger provides width and direct runs, aiming to stretch the play and deliver crosses, while the Inverted Winger cuts inside to overload central areas and link-up play. The player I use as a Winger is right-footed, effectively a hidden inside forward, combining flank runs with cutting inside. For the Inverted Winger, it's crucial to have a left-footed player with a playmaker style, capable of spraying passes to the advanced forward, mezzala or the winger in space. He is the hidden playmaker in your team as the DM is marked by the opponent. I had the privilege of playing Arda Guler in this role.
PI: Close Down More for both flanks

Mezzala (MEZ - Attack): Operating in half-spaces, the Mezzala offers forward thrust from midfield, combining with wide players and the striker, making late runs into the box and supporting the attack dynamically.
PI: Close Down More, Shoot More Often, Dribble More, Tackle Harder (the last three PIs were extra, tailored to my player's capabilities)

Central Midfielder (CM - Support): The engine of the midfield, balancing defensive solidity with support in attack. This role circulates possession and offers a passing outlet, ensuring smooth transitions and also an extra late attacking threat when you counter.
PI: Close Down More, Get Further Forward, Dribble More, Shoot Less Often(Dribble More & Shoot Less Often was based on the attributes of my player)

Deep-Lying Playmaker (DLP - Support): Positioned deeper in the midfield, the DLP dictates the tempo from a withdrawn position, providing defensive cover as well as initiating attacks with their range of passing.
PI: More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Wing-Back (WB - Support): The attacking threat on the right side as he runs behind the Inverted Winger. He is the lungs of my wings with a pace of 17. With the TI: overlap right, his individual mentality becomes balanced, taking more risks than usual.
PIs: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Cross More Often, Stay Wider, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Inverted Full Back (IFB - Defensive): A new role in FM24, the Inverted Full Back provides excellent cover. When the team counters and the Wing-Back moves forward, the IFB tucks into the middle to provide defensive coverage alongside the central defenders, ensuring solidity if the ball is lost during a counter.
PIs: None

Centre Backs (CD - Defensive) and Ball-Playing Defender (BPD - Defensive): The traditional Centre Backs focus on defensive duties, while the BPD is given more freedom to step out with the ball and play adventurous passes to start counter-attacks.
PI for BPD: Dribble More, Close Down Less (Dribble more, because his dribbling was 13 and this is a very underrated PI. I saw some goals or assist from this role when the player was literally taking the ball and dribbles his way to the final third and bangs for a goal or passes the ball for an assist. Thanks for the tip @Cloud9).
PI for CD: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Close Down Less

Sweeper Keeper (SK - Support): An active participant in the team's counter attacking play, with his vision he can start a counter from his hands.
PI: None

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In-Game tweaks against higher reputation clubs with superior players:

For away games, I set the mentality to Cautious.
For home games, I opt for a Balanced mentality.

What did you do when you were 1-0 behind?
Even if we fall behind 1-0 or 2-0, I switch the mentality to Balanced so that the team is pushing the opposition back and take more risk then the cautious mentality.

Did you use Opposition Instructions?
I chose not to use Opposition Instructions in any of my matches. In FM24, opponents frequently alter their tactics, roles, and player positions, which can make micromanagement exhaustive and overwhelming. While Opposition Instructions can be beneficial, I didn't utilize them in my save game while I was refining this counter-attacking approach. I got this tip from @crusadertsar

Optional: You can change the duty of a Mezzala from attack to support and the Wing Back on the right on Attack. Remove the overlap from the right TI as this do not change the mentality of the Wing Back. And you will also have an agressive Inverted Winger. So your wings wil be the major threat when you counter.

Key Attributes
In addition to my tactical setup, I want to highlight the key attributes that I prioritize when scouting and selecting players for my team. This strategy is crucial for ensuring each role is filled by the best-suited player, allowing the tactic to function on its best.

Underrated PI: Dribble more on a Ball Playing Defender can save your day:

Some example videos of where we win the ball from the opponent and counter them:

How to win a game with lesser possession then the opponent(A picture tells more than a thousand words):

After many years of playing Football Manager, I gathered a wealth of knowledge and experience. Winning against the top teams was always my biggest struggle, and I've learned that such achievements don't happen overnight. Patience and trust in the process are essential. I set a 10-year goal for my Galatasaray save to win the Champions League, and after 5 years, my squad was perfectly assembled with the right kind of players. The provided screenshots and example videos showcase the fruits of many years of dedicated team building – it really does pay off.

I would like to extend my special thanks to @Cloud9 and @crusadertsar for their knowledge on the counter attacking systems that enable smaller teams to take on the elite. Also, a heartfelt thanks to @Cleon and @Rashidi for their in-depth content, which has greatly enhanced my understanding of game mechanics.

Edited February 10 by ultrAslan

rich ruzzian · February 10

Stunning @ultrAslan. Do you use this tactic also in the regular games? With higher mentality or do you always play the same?

crusadertsar · February 10

On 07/02/2024 at 11:07, ultrAslan said:

Coming back with an update on my quest to master soaking up pressure and hitting teams on the counter in Football Manager! After posting my original question during my FM 23 days, I've since moved on to experimenting with counter-attacking tactics in FM 24.

I'm excited to share the tactic that I've fine-tuned, which has served me incredibly well against top-tier teams in the Champions League, helping me secure back-to-back Champions League trophies. The screenshot attached shows the setup that has brought my team great success. By setting up with a cautious mentality and focusing on a quick transition play, my team has been able to capitalize on the counter-attacks effectively.

Here's the screenshot of the tactic that made it all possible:

In depth about the player roles and duties:

Advanced Forward (AF): This player is the tip of our spear, constantly probing the defensive line and ready to exploit any space behind the opposition's backline.
PI: Close Down More

Winger (W - Attack) and Inverted Winger (IW - Support): Flank players with contrasting roles; the Winger provides width and direct runs, aiming to stretch the play and deliver crosses, while the Inverted Winger cuts inside to overload central areas and link-up play. The player I use as a Winger is right-footed, effectively a hidden inside forward, combining flank runs with cutting inside. For the Inverted Winger, it's crucial to have a left-footed player with a playmaker style, capable of spraying passes to the advanced forward, mezzala or the winger in space. I had the privilege of playing Arda Guler in this role.
PI: Close Down More for both flanks

Mezzala (MEZ - Attack): Operating in half-spaces, the Mezzala offers forward thrust from midfield, combining with wide players and the striker, making late runs into the box and supporting the attack dynamically.
PI: Close Down More, Shoot More Often, Dribble More, Tackle Harder (the last three PIs were extra, tailored to my player's capabilities)

Central Midfielder (CM - Support): The engine of the midfield, balancing defensive solidity with support in attack. This role circulates possession and offers a passing outlet, ensuring smooth transitions and also an extra late attacking threat when you counter.
PI: Close Down More, Get Further Forward, Dribble More, Shoot Less Often(Dribble More & Shoot Less Often was based on the attributes of my player)

Deep-Lying Playmaker (DLP - Support): Positioned deeper in the midfield, the DLP dictates the tempo from a withdrawn position, providing defensive cover as well as initiating attacks with their range of passing.
PI: More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Wing-Back (WB - Support): The attacking threat on the right side as he runs behind the Inverted Winger. He is the lungs of my wings with a pace of 17. With the TI: overlap right, his individual mentality becomes balanced, taking more risks than usual.
PIs: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Cross More Often, Stay Wider, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Inverted Full Back (IFB - Defensive): A new role in FM24, the Inverted Full Back provides excellent cover. When the team counters and the Wing-Back moves forward, the IFB tucks into the middle to provide defensive coverage alongside the central defenders, ensuring solidity if the ball is lost during a counter.
PIs: None

Centre Backs (CD - Defensive) and Ball-Playing Defender (BPD - Defensive): The traditional Centre Backs focus on defensive duties, while the BPD is given more freedom to step out with the ball and play adventurous passes to start counter-attacks.
PI for BPD: Dribble More, Close Down Less (Dribble more, because his dribbling was 13 and this is a very underrated PI. I saw some goals or assist from this role when the player was literally taking the ball and dribbles his way to the final third and bangs for a goal or passes the ball for an assist. Thanks for the tip @Cloud9).
PI for CD: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Close Down Less

Sweeper Keeper (SK - Support): An active participant in the team's counter attacking play, with his vision he can start a counter from his hands.
PI: None

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In-Game tweaks against higher reputation clubs with superior players:

For away games, I set the mentality to Cautious.

For home games, I opt for a Balanced mentality.

What did you do when you were 1-0 behind?
Even if we fall behind 1-0 or 2-0, I switch the mentality to Balanced so that the team is pushing the opposition back and take more risk then the cautious mentality.

Did you use Opposition Instructions?
I chose not to use Opposition Instructions in any of my matches. In FM24, opponents frequently alter their tactics, roles, and player positions, which can make micromanagement exhaustive and overwhelming. While Opposition Instructions can be beneficial, I didn't utilize them in my save game while I was refining this counter-attacking approach. I got this tip from @crusadertsar

Optional: You can change the duty of a Mezzala from attack to support and the Wing Back on the right on Attack. Remove the overlap from the right TI as this do not change the mentality of the Wing Back. And you will also have an agressive Inverted Winger. So your wings wil be the major threat when you counter.

Key Attributes
In addition to my tactical setup, I want to highlight the key attributes that I prioritize when scouting and selecting players for my team. This strategy is crucial for ensuring each role is filled by the best-suited player, allowing the tactic to function on its best.

Underrated PI: Dribble more on a Ball Playing Defender can save your day:

Some example videos of where we win the ball from the opponent and counter them:

How to win a game with lesser possession then the opponent(A picture tells more than a thousand words):

After many years of playing Football Manager, I gathered a wealth of knowledge and experience. Winning against the top teams was always my biggest struggle, and I've learned that such achievements don't happen overnight. Patience and trust in the process are essential. I set a 10-year goal for my Galatasaray save to win the Champions League, and after 5 years, my squad was perfectly assembled with the right kind of players. The provided screenshots and example videos showcase the fruits of many years of dedicated team building – it really does pay off.

I would like to extend my special thanks to @Cloud9 and @crusadertsar for their knowledge on the counter attacking systems that enable smaller teams to take on the elite. Also, a heartfelt thanks to @Cleon and @Rashidi for their in-depth content, which has greatly enhanced my understanding of game mechanics.

Very well-thought-off tactic. Finely balanced and very nicely chosen roles that work together perfectly. I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into this @ultrAslan :applause: It's rare to see a tactic these days which doesn't just lazily spam the current popular cookie-cutter collection of heavy pressing attacking instructions, hence "easy win" button. So Bravo for that mate!

Edited February 10 by crusadertsar

ultrAslan · February 10

8 hours ago, rich ruzzian said:

Stunning @ultrAslan. Do you use this tactic also in the regular games? With higher mentality or do you always play the same?

In my own league, I play differently because there isn't a real challenge for me. I manage the top club in Turkey and we have the best team. The AI managers in Turkey don't seem to strengthen their squads effectively, so it's relatively easy to dominate the league every year. The real competition comes from the Champions League. After winning the Champions League two or three times, there's not much of a challenge left, as that was the only trophy missing in Turkey.

The tactic I use in Turkey is fundamentally similar to my counter-attacking strategy, but it's more focused on possession-based play and pressing the opponent in their half. You might have noticed that I use the same roles from my counter-attacking tactic to hold the tactical familiarity. If I were to change roles and duties for my counter-attacking tactic, I wouldn’t be able to play the tactic's full potential. I prefer my players to consistently play in the same roles across different tactical systems to ensure they are comfortable and familiar with their responsibilities.

This is what I mean by no challenge left in my country:

3 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Very well-thought-off tactic. Finely balanced and very nicely chosen roles that work together perfectly. I can see that you put a lot of time and effort into this @ultrAslan It's rare to see a tactic these days which doesn't just lazily spam the current popular cookie-cutter collection of heavy pressing attacking instructions, hence "easy win" button. So Bravo for that mate!

Thank you for the kind words! Learned a lot from your topic on these types of systems. It opened up a new enjoyment in FM for me, moving away from the high-press meta in previous years.

Edited February 10 by ultrAslan

CapitalismReimagined · February 11

On 08/02/2024 at 00:07, ultrAslan said:

Coming back with an update on my quest to master soaking up pressure and hitting teams on the counter in Football Manager! After posting my original question during my FM 23 days, I've since moved on to experimenting with counter-attacking tactics in FM 24.

I'm excited to share the tactic that I've fine-tuned, which has served me incredibly well against top-tier teams in the Champions League, helping me secure back-to-back Champions League trophies. The screenshot attached shows the setup that has brought my team great success. By setting up with a cautious mentality and focusing on a quick transition play, my team has been able to capitalize on the counter-attacks effectively.

Here's the screenshot of the tactic that made it all possible:

In depth about the player roles and duties:

Advanced Forward (AF): This player is the tip of our spear, constantly probing the defensive line and ready to exploit any space behind the opposition's backline.
PI: Close Down More

Winger (W - Attack) and Inverted Winger (IW - Support): Flank players with contrasting roles; the Winger provides width and direct runs, aiming to stretch the play and deliver crosses, while the Inverted Winger cuts inside to overload central areas and link-up play. The player I use as a Winger is right-footed, effectively a hidden inside forward, combining flank runs with cutting inside. For the Inverted Winger, it's crucial to have a left-footed player with a playmaker style, capable of spraying passes to the advanced forward, mezzala or the winger in space. He is the hidden playmaker in your team as the DM is marked by the opponent. I had the privilege of playing Arda Guler in this role.
PI: Close Down More for both flanks

Mezzala (MEZ - Attack): Operating in half-spaces, the Mezzala offers forward thrust from midfield, combining with wide players and the striker, making late runs into the box and supporting the attack dynamically.
PI: Close Down More, Shoot More Often, Dribble More, Tackle Harder (the last three PIs were extra, tailored to my player's capabilities)

Central Midfielder (CM - Support): The engine of the midfield, balancing defensive solidity with support in attack. This role circulates possession and offers a passing outlet, ensuring smooth transitions and also an extra late attacking threat when you counter.
PI: Close Down More, Get Further Forward, Dribble More, Shoot Less Often(Dribble More & Shoot Less Often was based on the attributes of my player)

Deep-Lying Playmaker (DLP - Support): Positioned deeper in the midfield, the DLP dictates the tempo from a withdrawn position, providing defensive cover as well as initiating attacks with their range of passing.
PI: More Direct Passes, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Wing-Back (WB - Support): The attacking threat on the right side as he runs behind the Inverted Winger. He is the lungs of my wings with a pace of 17. With the TI: overlap right, his individual mentality becomes balanced, taking more risks than usual.
PIs: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Cross More Often, Stay Wider, Close Down More, Tackle Harder

Inverted Full Back (IFB - Defensive): A new role in FM24, the Inverted Full Back provides excellent cover. When the team counters and the Wing-Back moves forward, the IFB tucks into the middle to provide defensive coverage alongside the central defenders, ensuring solidity if the ball is lost during a counter.
PIs: None

Centre Backs (CD - Defensive) and Ball-Playing Defender (BPD - Defensive): The traditional Centre Backs focus on defensive duties, while the BPD is given more freedom to step out with the ball and play adventurous passes to start counter-attacks.
PI for BPD: Dribble More, Close Down Less (Dribble more, because his dribbling was 13 and this is a very underrated PI. I saw some goals or assist from this role when the player was literally taking the ball and dribbles his way to the final third and bangs for a goal or passes the ball for an assist. Thanks for the tip @Cloud9).
PI for CD: Pass It Shorter, Take Fewer Risks, Close Down Less

Sweeper Keeper (SK - Support): An active participant in the team's counter attacking play, with his vision he can start a counter from his hands.
PI: None

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In-Game tweaks against higher reputation clubs with superior players:

For away games, I set the mentality to Cautious.

For home games, I opt for a Balanced mentality.

What did you do when you were 1-0 behind?
Even if we fall behind 1-0 or 2-0, I switch the mentality to Balanced so that the team is pushing the opposition back and take more risk then the cautious mentality.

Did you use Opposition Instructions?
I chose not to use Opposition Instructions in any of my matches. In FM24, opponents frequently alter their tactics, roles, and player positions, which can make micromanagement exhaustive and overwhelming. While Opposition Instructions can be beneficial, I didn't utilize them in my save game while I was refining this counter-attacking approach. I got this tip from @crusadertsar

Optional: You can change the duty of a Mezzala from attack to support and the Wing Back on the right on Attack. Remove the overlap from the right TI as this do not change the mentality of the Wing Back. And you will also have an agressive Inverted Winger. So your wings wil be the major threat when you counter.

Key Attributes
In addition to my tactical setup, I want to highlight the key attributes that I prioritize when scouting and selecting players for my team. This strategy is crucial for ensuring each role is filled by the best-suited player, allowing the tactic to function on its best.

Underrated PI: Dribble more on a Ball Playing Defender can save your day:

Some example videos of where we win the ball from the opponent and counter them:

How to win a game with lesser possession then the opponent(A picture tells more than a thousand words):

After many years of playing Football Manager, I gathered a wealth of knowledge and experience. Winning against the top teams was always my biggest struggle, and I've learned that such achievements don't happen overnight. Patience and trust in the process are essential. I set a 10-year goal for my Galatasaray save to win the Champions League, and after 5 years, my squad was perfectly assembled with the right kind of players. The provided screenshots and example videos showcase the fruits of many years of dedicated team building – it really does pay off.

I would like to extend my special thanks to @Cloud9 and @crusadertsar for their knowledge on the counter attacking systems that enable smaller teams to take on the elite. Also, a heartfelt thanks to @Cleon and @Rashidi for their in-depth content, which has greatly enhanced my understanding of game mechanics.

What happens when you try playing on positive mentality against top teams?

crusadertsar · February 11

4 hours ago, CapitalismReimagined said:

What happens when you try playing on positive mentality against top teams?

He already beat Man City and PSG with Cautious mentality. On Positive he would probably leak more goals against them and lose. Increasing mentality does not equal more goals my friend. Just more risk. And you don't want to take too many risks against top teams.

Edited February 11 by crusadertsar

ultrAslan · February 11

7 hours ago, CapitalismReimagined said:

What happens when you try playing on positive mentality against top teams?

As @crusadertsar mentioned, increasing mentality raises the risk level for the entire team. For instance, my wing-back might surge forward too quickly after regaining possession. Taking on more risk can leave my team exposed, especially against superior teams, creating unwanted gaps. It really boils down to trial and error. There's no one-size-fits-all strategy for perfecting the counter.Feel free to experiment. If your squad has the ability to handle more risk and can play on it, then adjust the mentality. The cautious approach has served my team well in my save, and I've shared my strategy in the hopes that it might provide a solid starting point for you to adapt and fine-tune to fit your own team's needs.

Safe Hands · February 13

Loving reading this thread, learning a lot.

My favourite save every year is the journeyman starting as an unemployed nobody, getting any job and working my way up the ladder. One thing I love most is at the start being at a small club and getting so ex star in on a free whose legs have gone and watching him shine. Roles I think are best suited to this is Treq or an Engache. I've never managed to get even working and usually end up changing to an AP or AM. Determined to give it a good crack this year. My goal was be to recreate 4312 like classic Roma trio off Totti, Montella and Delvecchio and take the system to me at every club I go too.

My current save I'm in my 2nd season and 2nd club. I'm currently stuck to what I can do as several over wage budget when I took over so can't bring anybody in , teams have 4 high earners who are taking up 80% of the budget, can't shift them and noone wants them so got to wait until summer when they leave and can't start again. Teams stacked with some pacey wingers so playing 4411 on counter. Been playing around today to try and incorporate the Treq or Engache and come up with the below to try and get it working before evolving into the 4312 next season.

I have 3 really hard working CMS(one got really good dribbling hence the mezzala)but back up is poor so any injury id struggle why I'm playing with wingers. Cautious mental, mid block, counter, pass into space, dribble more and will probably focus play down the right side to give the Treq/Engache more space. I have a CB on loan from Brighton who decent Ball playing defender and has traits like to play long passes so think below could work.

HanziZoloman · May 22

This is some wonderful content which is why I push it back up. Just now I am with Billericay in my second Championship Season and I am facing really strong teams. I am the complete underdog and this year I don't have the euphoria of promotion in the back.

here is my first approach on countering, I am aware that I have to adapt a bit. The SV could change into a DM(S) when opposition is strong. I like to play a fluid counter-attacking style of play which suits my strongest area of the game, the hard working and good passing. I also like it to be at least fluid, usually I have this right FB on FB(S) but for more security and a 3-1 or 3-2 rest defense I sacrificed it.

Both creators are on the left hand side maybe it's useful to switch one to the other side (the DLF?) but I'd like at least some players to have positional play elements.

Spoiler

Falahk · May 22

@ultrAslan have you tried using the cautious version of the tactic for a full league season?

Falahk · May 23

On 14/11/2023 at 00:29, Guest said:

I don't have any tips you probably don't already know, I just wanted to comment that after doing a Wednesday save myself I can't believe you haven't gotten rid of Windass yet 🤣

Windass is kinda decent as a spearhead in a 2 striker formation or 4-2-3-1, since he is reasonably fast, got good otb, decent workrate and finishing, I renewed his contract 😉

Cloud9 · May 23

20 hours ago, Falahk said:

@ultrAslan have you tried using the cautious version of the tactic for a full league season?

I would recommend using the same mentality throughout the season regardless of approach. The mentality will impact everything in your tactic so changing it can cause problems.

As teams sit back against you more, you may look to play a less direct/less narrow counter (remove counter + pass into space if you have them on, players will still launch counters naturally) and look to play on the ball a bit more. Ultimately just watch what the opposition is doing durring the match. If they're sitting deep against you it might be time to step up the pitch a little and take control of things yourself.

jcafcwbb · May 27

Apologies for putting this in this thread rather than its own but I am not sure if it needs its own thread.

After watching the FA Cup Final I wonder whether Ten Hag's tactics can be used well in FM.

He defended with a narrow 4-2-4 principally to frustrate Man City's desire to play in the half-space. The other was Rashford and Garnacho were closing down their full-backs but still leaving three centrally. It forced Man City to change their tactics throughout the match. They got most out of Doku but the 4-2-4 still shut down Man City's play only conceding to a goalkeeper error.

The narrow 4-2-4 expanded to a wide 4-2-3-1 with McTominay being prepared to sit and allow Mainoo too make forward runs - which happened for their second goal. In defence the two pivots would be Aramabat and Mainoo but in attack two of McTominay, Mainoo or Aramabat. Rashford and Garnacho exploited the space down the flanks - especially in the quick counter. Fernandes played a False 9 and with no striker to mark the defenders struggled to know who to mark. The was also a numbers superiority for United in central midfield.

It was a low block, counter which worked to perfection but I always struggle when I play defensive tactics in FM.

Is Ten Hag's master tactic possible in FM?

bababooey · May 27

5 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Apologies for putting this in this thread rather than its own but I am not sure if it needs its own thread.

After watching the FA Cup Final I wonder whether Ten Hag's tactics can be used well in FM.

He defended with a narrow 4-2-4 principally to frustrate Man City's desire to play in the half-space. The other was Rashford and Garnacho were closing down their full-backs but still leaving three centrally. It forced Man City to change their tactics throughout the match. They got most out of Doku but the 4-2-4 still shut down Man City's play only conceding to a goalkeeper error.

The narrow 4-2-4 expanded to a wide 4-2-3-1 with McTominay being prepared to sit and allow Mainoo too make forward runs - which happened for their second goal. In defence the two pivots would be Aramabat and Mainoo but in attack two of McTominay, Mainoo or Aramabat. Rashford and Garnacho exploited the space down the flanks - especially in the quick counter. Fernandes played a False 9 and with no striker to mark the defenders struggled to know who to mark. The was also a numbers superiority for United in central midfield.

It was a low block, counter which worked to perfection but I always struggle when I play defensive tactics in FM.

Is Ten Hag's master tactic possible in FM?

I think it's doable, but you're probably better off trying to take certain aspects of the approach rather than attempting to replicate it entirely.

United's gameplan was designed specifically to counter City's attack, and you can see in the second half that City eventually changed their approach and started creating good chances.

Why did it take Pep so long to make changes? I dont know. He's known to overthink things in cup finals, and maybe that was the case here.

billmatic · May 27

7 hours ago, jcafcwbb said:

Apologies for putting this in this thread rather than its own but I am not sure if it needs its own thread.

After watching the FA Cup Final I wonder whether Ten Hag's tactics can be used well in FM.

He defended with a narrow 4-2-4 principally to frustrate Man City's desire to play in the half-space. The other was Rashford and Garnacho were closing down their full-backs but still leaving three centrally. It forced Man City to change their tactics throughout the match. They got most out of Doku but the 4-2-4 still shut down Man City's play only conceding to a goalkeeper error.

The narrow 4-2-4 expanded to a wide 4-2-3-1 with McTominay being prepared to sit and allow Mainoo too make forward runs - which happened for their second goal. In defence the two pivots would be Aramabat and Mainoo but in attack two of McTominay, Mainoo or Aramabat. Rashford and Garnacho exploited the space down the flanks - especially in the quick counter. Fernandes played a False 9 and with no striker to mark the defenders struggled to know who to mark. The was also a numbers superiority for United in central midfield.

It was a low block, counter which worked to perfection but I always struggle when I play defensive tactics in FM.

Is Ten Hag's master tactic possible in FM?

It's funny you should ask that because I was thinking of asking myself. I have City next game, too. I'd love for someone more tactically astute to attempt a recreation, but as bababooey said above replicating certain aspects instead is probably the way forward. Happy to be proven wrong, of course.

Edit #1: Leading 2-0 at halftime!

Edit #2: Won 3-0!

Edited May 27 by billmatic

Falahk · May 29

On 23/05/2024 at 17:20, Cloud9 said:

I would recommend using the same mentality throughout the season regardless of approach. The mentality will impact everything in your tactic so changing it can cause problems.

As teams sit back against you more, you may look to play a less direct/less narrow counter (remove counter + pass into space if you have them on, players will still launch counters naturally) and look to play on the ball a bit more. Ultimately just watch what the opposition is doing durring the match. If they're sitting deep against you it might be time to step up the pitch a little and take control of things yourself.

That's what I normally do, stick to the same mentality/system with minimal changes done during the season, I do tactical changes during matches with substitutions rather then tamper with my tactical setup (for instance bannan/hendrick wouldn't play the cm/a role in the same way as poveda/musaba would)

Kinda why I was a bit surprised when the op mentioned he change things up for big games

A bit offtopic, but how on earth did you manage to finish first with wednesday? I feel the best I can possibly do with this squad is a 90 points season (which on my save wouldn't have been enough for automatic promotion), and that would probably have required me to be more familiar with the players at my disposal and not being so hellbent on playing 3-5-2

Edited May 29 by Falahk

Cloud9 · May 30

23 hours ago, Falahk said:

That's what I normally do, stick to the same mentality/system with minimal changes done during the season, I do tactical changes during matches with substitutions rather then tamper with my tactical setup (for instance bannan/hendrick wouldn't play the cm/a role in the same way as poveda/musaba would)

Kinda why I was a bit surprised when the op mentioned he change things up for big games

A bit offtopic, but how on earth did you manage to finish first with wednesday? I feel the best I can possibly do with this squad is a 90 points season (which on my save wouldn't have been enough for automatic promotion), and that would probably have required me to be more familiar with the players at my disposal and not being so hellbent on playing 3-5-2

On changing the mentality, I think it's as much stylistic as anything else. You could use different mentalities if they're trained on a second tactic as @ultrAslan mentions, but it will really change up the way your team approaches the match. I prefer to have all three of my tactics be variations of the same mentality for maximized familiarity which I think is especially nice for defensive approaches. That being said, different approaches to tactical setups are totally valid :thup:

On performance: overachieving in FM is mostly down to how you'll score goals, squad management (a strong preseason, rotation + morale), and making sure you get your transfer windows right. The squad have a great strike partnership already in Smith + Windass who both require a bit of man management (Windass via personality and Smith in injuries). I would struggle to get promoted at all w/ a solo 9.

The squad itself is not technically gifted, but you have the superb Barry Bannan who you can constantly give the ball to progress through the thirds and threaten off set pieces.

That 4-4-2 was kinda crazy, but it played to our best players strengths --- and the big signing (the goalkeeper for a 1million pounds or so) was exceptional. We would not have been promoted w/out him as an inconsistent or poor quality goalkeeper will see you drop points based on his performances alone. A good goalkeeper prevents this and gives you points on days you don't deserve it.

Domestic cup football is one of the best things the game has to offer...but I would recommend sacrificing it if you're looking for automatic promotion.
In any season you should have two big power spikes over other teams that are determined by you as the manager.
- The first few weeks of the season coming off a strong pre-season and the post January period where your squad rotation can see your players stay fresh as opposition teams blow up from lack of rotation or a poor pre-season.

There is also just an element of luck. Some saves Leeds or Southampton will struggle and suddenly it's not so bad. If they're charging then the best you can do is likely a playoff spot.

Falahk · June 1

@Cloud9 I have yet to figure out a good way on how to make screenshots on my new laptop (there's something I need to activate to make paint function like it should), so the image quality will not be perfect, regardless, this is the tactic I used in the championship (and the players sellected will probably be my first XI heading into next season):

The counter attacking play have been fantastic and the defending/soaking up pressure part have been somewhat questionable to say the least, I think this is mostly down to me asking the players to play in a manner they are not good enough to pull off every single time, rather then a tactical problem, very much a risk vs reward kind of thing

Cloud9 · June 2

9 hours ago, Falahk said:

@Cloud9 I have yet to figure out a good way on how to make screenshots on my new laptop (there's something I need to activate to make paint function like it should), so the image quality will not be perfect, regardless, this is the tactic I used in the championship (and the players sellected will probably be my first XI heading into next season):

The counter attacking play have been fantastic and the defending/soaking up pressure part have been somewhat questionable to say the least, I think this is mostly down to me asking the players to play in a manner they are not good enough to pull off every single time, rather then a tactical problem, very much a risk vs reward kind of thing

I would look at where your players end up when the ball turns over. Usually a WCB(s) is a bit of a liability in a counter attacking system and you've got two on attack. I usually opt for a BPD w Dribble more or a WCB(D) for the wide area. At most I would use on WCB(s), but you've got to accept he's leaving a gap that can see you exposed.

Aside from , moving one of the CM(a)s to a more balanced role is something I'd recommend. BWM(s) is one of my favorites in a counter attacking 8 and Vaulks fits the profile perfectly. Smith is, as you mention, not capable of playing the CF(s) role which is extremely demanding. I'd go with a simple TF(s) and he'll do great for you. Palmer may struggle to perform on attack w/his legs.

Going a bit more direct in your passing will play to a 5-3-2's strengths and taking counter-press will help as well in making you a bit more resolute. Step up more can work, but I frequently use it on a highline system where it's already high risk high reward, leaving it blank might be appropriate.

Edited June 2 by Cloud9

carloshcorbalan · June 2

En 7/11/2023 a las 23:42, Cloud9 dijo:

SV funciona mucho mejor con los cambios de PP para un contraataque, básicamente los estilos fluidos son mucho más accesibles que antes, lo cual es genial. Recomendaría desarrollar una mentalidad positiva para los mostradores este año. No más multas a los jugadores por malos desempeños es un gran debilitamiento para nuestros contraataques; necesitarás priorizar el reclutamiento por Determinación y, más importante, Tasa de trabajo, de una manera que no tenías que hacerlo antes. La reelaboración de las jugadas a balón parado tiene el potencial de ser bastante interesante, ya que "jugar a balón parado" es importante para los equipos de contraataque en la vida real, pero mi preocupación es que será fácil de explotar. Sin embargo, las jugadas a balón parado defensivas no tienen este problema, por lo que puedes invertir mucho aquí. Como siempre, recomiendo encarecidamente preparar a los muchachos para que lancen un contraataque desde jugadas a balón parado defensivas.

Estoy experimentando con un 5-3-2 al estilo de fútbol defensivo del Atlético de Madrid/español en mi propia parada. El 4-2-4 parece particularmente interesante con el juego posicional (con un SV en el espacio DM), pero no me gusta mucho esta formación en la vida real. No veo muchos equipos usándolo, ya que controlar el mediocampo es fundamental en la mayoría de los partidos y la amplia derrota del PSG ante Newcastle en la Liga de Campeones utilizando esta táctica me ha hecho cuestionar por completo su relevancia en el fútbol moderno. El 3-4-2-1 se ve muy bien bajo cambios de juego posicional, pero siempre es una gran pregunta para tu delantero solitario en esta configuración (bueno una vez que tienes buenos jugadores en la puerta, pero es difícil ascender del campeonato). 4-3-3 es la otra opción que buscaría en las últimas etapas de una salvada (con jugadores de alta calidad ejecutando un contraataque).

5-3-2 con un Regista como DM en particular fue mi estilo favorito al final de FM23 y estoy buscando hacer la transición a 24. He estado tratando de agregar "jugar desde atrás" a mi contador. ataca con más éxito este año y el sistema de 5 en la zaga ayuda enormemente a la vez que mantiene esas trampas de presión central y cobertura para los defensores abiertos. También espero jugar sin delanteros avanzados en esta edición. La pérdida de tiempo es algo que también estoy tratando de agregar con éxito a mi contraataque, sin ralentizarlo.

Intentaré escribir algo cuando tenga un poco más de experiencia con el nuevo sistema.

Could you expand your experience with Atletico Madrid and upload a link to the tactic?

loisvale · Wednesday at 17:43

On 10/07/2023 at 03:28, Cloud9 said:

Just for reference since a couple people have been interested in the box 5 at the back tactic. Here is the basic setup for how I like to set up with in the 3-4-2-1 setup.

I adjust width, wingback(s/a), backline based on opposition. Fairly narrow (shorter vs normal) are where I like to hangout w/ this setup.

Width changes are largely between fairly narrow (shorter vs normal) as well. Fairly wide is useful against a couple setups, but will neutralize the pressing box so be careful.

You can go double WB(s) and be fine. WB(a) is tiring for the wingback so just use it when you can.

Both wingbacks have mark tighter + show inside to funnel into the pressing trap of the box 4.

Counter press, get stuck in (in moderation), hit crosses early in sections of the match (watch momentum).

I also turn the Trigger Press up to "slightly more often" fairly liberally.

Special mention for time wasting (frequently), it cuts your counter attack a bit but can help you break up the match if things are going against you or you're trying to see out a match.

You can focus play through the middle via the box, esp if you've got a heavy numerical advantage there.

Don't be afraid to push your lines up against a team where you can dominate the midfield/cut off transitions.

AMC support, DM support have pressing meters increased.

Attributes on the box midfield is especially important, outlined above.

I'm not a huge fan of the SS with this setup. Great work off the ball, but they try to be a goal scorer from deep which leaves them caught in the middle of a counter. AMC can score bangers from a distance and play in the roles around them.

You can play this with 2 DM (s) as well. DLP(s) and BWM(d) are a trustworthy combo in a pinch, and can be a good fallback point if form goes out the window.

Passing meter changes w/no playmaker are key + take more risks. This is pivotal for the tactic to work. Get some playmaking traits on talented players as well. No ball magnet + the passing meters creates a very quick/dynamic counter.

Passing "Slightly more direct" vs "More direct" based on opponent quality. I prefer "slightly more direct" with the box midfield but I think it's largely stylistic w/the passing meter changes.

You can play with 2 BPD (st) and one CD(c) but it requires higher quality players imo. Dribble more on both BPD.

WCB can leave you a little exposed so I'd avoid them (although on support they'll get great ratings). BPD are just really great this year and perfect for the counter. W/ Dribble more they can progress the ball via carrying or a line breaking pass while being defensively sound.

If you've got a talented keeper, go SK(s). I've had trouble with them booting the ball regardless, so play it by ear. Just a GK is fine as well.

I use roll it out because I prioritize a shot stopper.

Positive mentality is a fine choice for this set up as well.

I prefer defensive since it allows for more in game changes/less fatigue for your squad while the opposition tires themselves out.

This setup needs players that fit the system or you're better off opting for a direct counter with a TF/AF combo up top + playmaking roles

@Cloud9 Apologies for going back deep into the thread but I have just come across this excellent debate.

I'm very interested in this counter-attacking set up as it is very similar to the system that I use myself.

The system that I use currently is below.

I have tended to struggle turning it into an effective counter-attacking system when required and what you have posted here is very helpful.

I will certainly try some of the ideas you have posted here to make changes to this tactic to give me a Plan B.

From what you are suggesting below as well as the changes to the team instructions I need to consider changing the shadow striker to an attacking midfielder, the Segundo V to a defensive midfielder on support, the wide Centre backs to Ball playing defenders with dribble more as a PI. The PIs you suggest are not clear through the team

Adding mark tighter to both wingbacks (not sure what you mean by showing inside)

Other points for clarity:

When you say AMC support and DM support have pressing metres increased do you mean adding the PI closedown more?

Also not sure what you mean by "passing metres changes w/no playmaker are key + take more risks"

Are you also suggesting increasing passing to slightly more direct against better opponents?

Can the setup be alternated between defensive, cautious and balanced?

Sorry for the questions and hopefully I've made myself clear.

Many thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.any advice greatly received?

Falahk · Wednesday at 21:32

3 hours ago, loisvale said:

@Cloud9 Apologies for going back deep into the thread but I have just come across this excellent debate.

I'm very interested in this counter-attacking set up as it is very similar to the system that I use myself.

The system that I use currently is below.

I have tended to struggle turning it into an effective counter-attacking system when required and what you have posted here is very helpful.

I will certainly try some of the ideas you have posted here to make changes to this tactic to give me a Plan B.

From what you are suggesting below as well as the changes to the team instructions I need to consider changing the shadow striker to an attacking midfielder, the Segundo V to a defensive midfielder on support, the wide Centre backs to Ball playing defenders with dribble more as a PI. The PIs you suggest are not clear through the team

Adding mark tighter to both wingbacks (not sure what you mean by showing inside)

Other points for clarity:

When you say AMC support and DM support have pressing metres increased do you mean adding the PI closedown more?

Also not sure what you mean by "passing metres changes w/no playmaker are key + take more risks"

Are you also suggesting increasing passing to slightly more direct against better opponents?

Can the setup be alternated between defensive, cautious and balanced?

Sorry for the questions and hopefully I've made myself clear.

Many thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.any advice greatly received?

I played a very similar system on fm14, back then it was not really possible to use wide defenders in the wingback strata since they would just act like fullbacks on defend, hence why the line of four is higher up on the pitch, if I was to use a similar system again on fm24, it would probably converge and look a lot more similar to yours and the one posted by Cloud9

When I have time I will sit down and do a draft on how I would set it up on fm24, it will probably not be a finnished masterpiece, but probably good enough to overachive with a bad squad

loisvale · Thursday at 13:47

16 hours ago, Falahk said:

I played a very similar system on fm14, back then it was not really possible to use wide defenders in the wingback strata since they would just act like fullbacks on defend, hence why the line of four is higher up on the pitch, if I was to use a similar system again on fm24, it would probably converge and look a lot more similar to yours and the one posted by Cloud9

When I have time I will sit down and do a draft on how I would set it up on fm24, it will probably not be a finnished masterpiece, but probably good enough to overachive with a bad squad

👍

Cloud9 · Thursday at 17:54

On 02/06/2024 at 10:43, carloshcorbalan said:

Could you expand your experience with Atletico Madrid and upload a link to the tactic?

I ended up switching to primarily playing around w/back 4 systems this year. I got a bit frustrated w/how the wide defenders in a back 3 defended against some attacking movements as well as the current state of wingbacks in the DM strata. I feel good about the the midfield 3 and front 2 for a strong Atletico Madrid recreation though A lot of their tactics are about creating that central pressing trap between the strikers and midfield or wide from the striker, wingback + touchline. Atletico are in a strange place IRL as well...lacking players like Godin these days.

This was the basic setup I was playing around w/before I switched:

Cloud9 · Thursday at 18:21

On 05/06/2024 at 10:43, loisvale said:

I have tended to struggle turning it into an effective counter-attacking system when required and what you have posted here is very helpful.

From what you are suggesting below as well as the changes to the team instructions I need to consider changing the shadow striker to an attacking midfielder, the Segundo V to a defensive midfielder on support, the wide Centre backs to Ball playing defenders with dribble more as a PI. The PIs you suggest are not clear through the team

Adding mark tighter to both wingbacks (not sure what you mean by showing inside)

When you say AMC support and DM support have pressing metres increased do you mean adding the PI closedown more?

Are you also suggesting increasing passing to slightly more direct against better opponents?

Sorry for the questions and hopefully I've made myself clear.

Many thanks for sharing. Much appreciated.any advice greatly received?

Hello! I think this tactic was on a previous FM, so the big change will be positional play.

I would consider dropping Counter-press and Step up more. Those are TIs that fit well into a high line tactic but increase the element of risk in defensive situations. Play out of defense is a little wonky at the moment and can slow down your transitions w/out really adding too much to your tactic. I think that's more of a flaw in the way the TI is working atm than anything else.

On some of your questions:

Positional play adds a lot to what you'll look for in your box midfield. I personally like the 4 you've got w/except I'd switch the DM(d) to DM(s). In roles you're mainly looking for defensive structure + ways to progress the ball through the thirds.
- I like using BPD + dribble more for that progression from the defensive third. You can use a double WCB(d) as well but it places a lot on the wingbacks. I'd consider giving both the wingbacks progressive roles/duties if you're going w/ the double WCB(d).
On Tighter marking w/ the wingbacks:
- Using the tighter marking PI + trap inside TI + show opposition inside in the OI can help the wingbacks push the opposition into your central box.
- On FM24 a lot of teams want to play centrally (and the AI is more reactive overall), so you have to be a little more selective in its use.
On pressing meters, this is PI I've tinkered with:

On passing meters, this is the meter I'm referring to:
- Play makers act as ball magnets, so if you choose to play w/out one you can find the ball progression more evenly distributed from multiple sources. There is nothing wrong w/utilizing a playmaker though!
- Just adding "pass it shorter" on your weaker players will go a long way in making your counter attacks more effecient.

On mentality: You can setup a counter attack on any mentality. Usually positive/attacking mentality counter attacks are a little bit more user friendly (ie. quick frequent transitions forward) so I would recommend positive if you're struggling to get things to work.
- A lower mentality takes less risk and generally plays at a lower tempo. This can be quite useful as your team will have a fatigue advantage in certain parts of the match and will be less exposed. It requires you as the manager to micromanagement in game a bit more to step things up in the right moments when you can go for it.
On going more direct against better opposition:
- Basically if the opposition are way better than you, you want to play defensively resolute and counter very directly / quickly. Trying to outplay them on the ball will have diminishing returns. These matches you may only have a couple chances and it's important you're putting your players in positions to take them. Against weaker teams, coming out to play a bit more (and playing less direct) can benefit you.

Hope that clears things up! A 3-4-2-1 is a lot of fun to play w/positional play and is quite strong as well :thup:

Edited Thursday at 18:28 by Cloud9

loisvale · Saturday at 01:23

Very helpful. Thank you.

Falahk · Saturday at 15:27

On 02/06/2024 at 03:32, Cloud9 said:

I would look at where your players end up when the ball turns over. Usually a WCB(s) is a bit of a liability in a counter attacking system and you've got two on attack. I usually opt for a BPD w Dribble more or a WCB(D) for the wide area. At most I would use on WCB(s), but you've got to accept he's leaving a gap that can see you exposed.

Aside from , moving one of the CM(a)s to a more balanced role is something I'd recommend. BWM(s) is one of my favorites in a counter attacking 8 and Vaulks fits the profile perfectly. Smith is, as you mention, not capable of playing the CF(s) role which is extremely demanding. I'd go with a simple TF(s) and he'll do great for you. Palmer may struggle to perform on attack w/his legs.

Going a bit more direct in your passing will play to a 5-3-2's strengths and taking counter-press will help as well in making you a bit more resolute. Step up more can work, but I frequently use it on a highline system where it's already high risk high reward, leaving it blank might be appropriate.

I did managed to lock up a deal for Milan van Ewijk (loan + future fee), one day before the transfer window slamed shut, so the right side is a little bit better now. That said playing the crazy 3-5-2 against top half prem teams have understandably not gone well so far, so I might have to shelve it for the moment, go back to basics and play a tactic with wingers until I have the funds to reinforce the squad

carloshcorbalan · Saturday at 16:30

ok.... :thup:

Sign In

How to soak up pressure and hit a team on the counter as an underdog? [UPDATED for FM24]

Recommended Posts

Link to post

Share on other sites

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Guest

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites

Link to post

Share on other sites