Mentoring is Good

[phd_angel]

I never spent much time with Mentoring, just clicking the automatic button, until I watched a YouTube video (there are many) with some tips I started to apply recently. A few FM months later, I've never seen so many players acquiring so many, mostly positive attributes.

Spend some time with your mentoring to develop your players psychologically.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by phd_angel

[frank_olaf]

Which specific YouTube video did you watch? Thanks

[Johnny Ace]

It's very handy for YAC, so make best use of your mentors before they retire 

It's really cool once you get into it 

[Johnny Ace]

4 hours ago, frank_olaf said:

Which specific YouTube video did you watch? Thanks

I imagine any video on Youtube will help, just don't auto it, it's worth the few minutes it takes to set them up 

[eXistenZ]

Yeah like so many things, dont hand it to the assman, he will cock it up

 

Mentoring setup is probably the easiest to do in the game right now. Just keep in mind that players need to be in the same training unit. So i my groups tend to turn out "def1, def2, attack1, attack2, etc... And it gives you imediately feedback who will have influence and who will be influenced

Edited April 18, 2023 by eXistenZ

[phd_angel]

17 hours ago, frank_olaf said:

Which specific YouTube video did you watch? Thanks

There are many good videos, but I don't want to spend hours studying any given feature, so a good and concise one that works for me is this one by FM Scout:

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by phd_angel

[paz]

Corr I probably need this. I have a player who is described as a model citizen. I thus set him to mentor a group.

On the first month, I got this response in the picture.  Has anyone experienced similar. The player does only exert medium influence over the group. Perhaps that's why?

[Johnny Ace]

Can you post a screenie of the mentoring groups page @paz? Sometimes others in the group can rub up off on other players

Controversy isn't covered under Model Citizen

Pressure is 14-20 so it's possible Brown's higher rated than Cunningham in that 

Determination, hard to say without seeing Browne's profile 

If this is a one off, it's nothing to worry about but if it's a regular thing, just rejig the groups  

[paz]

I can't show you the mentoring groups anymore because I closed them all down to stop any further decrease. I've actually noticed Browne's determination has fallen from 18 to 14!! The progress graph below shows him at 17, but he was 18 before that. 

And when you say controversy isn't covered under model citizen, what do you mean by 'isn't covered'. Do you mean that can't be causing it? Perhaps he's just knocking around with an agent who is asking him to be controversial?

[vikeologist]

11 minutes ago, paz said:

I can't show you the mentoring groups anymore because I closed them all down to stop any further decrease. I've actually noticed Browne's determination has fallen from 18 to 14!! The progress graph below shows him at 17, but he was 18 before that. 

And when you say controversy isn't covered under model citizen, what do you mean by 'isn't covered'. Do you mean that can't be causing it? Perhaps he's just knocking around with an agent who is asking him to be controversial?

the modal citizen has 14 det. he caused it, but he's still having good effect. 

[paz]

19 minutes ago, vikeologist said:

the modal citizen has 14 det. he caused it, but he's still having good effect. 

How do you know he's still having a good effect?

[vikeologist]

34 minutes ago, paz said:

How do you know he's still having a good effect?

Because he's a Modal Citizen, and it's the best personality. The worst that can possibly be happening is that he only has an ambition of 12, although sometimes you don't want a really high ambition if you're hoping the player will stay. (His ambition could very well be 20 though).

I've been there. I had a Modal Citizen mentoring my best player, and he went from f pro to F sporting, and that was worrying, but even the worst possible scenario for a MC is still good. (The mentoree in question went to resolute once i got his determination up to 15. Frankly a determination of 14 (which is the lowest that a MC can possibly have) isn't great, but it can be easily fixed if you know how, (and if you don't, and you ask, there's lots of people can clue you in, but it's sort of a trick, so I try not to constantly say how). (You do seem very interested in determination though, so you could always search for fining players for poor performance affect on determination). or send me a message, and I'll give you the secret sauce.

 It was a mistake to mess up his determination, but it's done now. I doubt he can do any more harm, and he will do lots of good for those who he mentors. Just best not to have him mentoring those with 15+ determination unless you change that stat.

Trust the process. it's not always a straight line. Modal citizens aren't perfect, but if they don't have loads of nutritious hidden attributes, they're not Modal Citizens.

One last thing. The level headed MHS worried me a bit, but if i understand it correctly, it does mean that the controversy must be 14 or less, so, again, if he has done any damage to the mentoree's controversy, he's probably done as much as he's ever going to do. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by vikeologist

[enigmatic]

Tbf, its a pretty classic example of how the mentoring and personality system is a crapshoot

What happens is that the hidden attributes of young, uninfluential players converge on the attributes of the senior, influential players(Less influential members of a group also have some influence, which makes figuring out the effects more complicated)

Since Model Citizen means "at least good in all areas" it will tend to make them have better attributes all round, but it can lower young players' best attributes as well (including important ones). But at least you'll tend to end up with a better spread of attributes overall. But that personality is very rare. With some of the other "good" personalities like "Professional" it's not so clear that they will end up with a better spread. A Professional player can be pretty bad at more or less everything other than Professionalism.

And a "balanced" player can be the worst personality imaginable or a well rounded player that's decent in all areas and nearly as good as a Model Citizen...

[vikeologist]

I think mentoring is a good idea, but if you're doing something like a Youth Challenge, and you build tour initial mentoring upon people with poor underlying attributes, that can affect your whole squad, with your bad guy patient A as it were.

It's a lot less hazardous when you're bringing new players in, and probably letting players with good personalities go, so you have a bit of diversity in your main mentors and any bad things balance out.

It's probably even more of a danger with your HoYD, because if they have bad hidden attributes, you can't really tell because the affects are delayed and dispersed amongst all your intake.

Basically, be wary of inbreeding.

[enigmatic]

6 hours ago, vikeologist said:

It's probably even more of a danger with your HoYD, because if they have bad hidden attributes, you can't really tell because the affects are delayed and dispersed amongst all your intake.

and the youth intake are supposedly also influenced by other members of your coaching staff

plus 1/3 of newgens have the "unambitious" personality anyway, and there are inbuilt biases by nationality so it's hard to figure out if that's your HOYD's fault or not

[Johnny Ace]

On 23/08/2023 at 16:05, paz said:

And when you say controversy isn't covered under model citizen, what do you mean by 'isn't covered'. Do you mean that can't be causing it? Perhaps he's just knocking around with an agent who is asking him to be controversial?

It's not one of the hidden attributes that make up a Model Citizen

In spoilers in case people don't want to to know

Spoiler

 

So the Model Citizen could have 20 Controversy and be passing it on to his mentee's

[Brother Ben]

47 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

So the Model Citizen could have 20 Controversy and be passing it on to his mentee's

Not if he has a reserved personality iirc

I'm sure I've seen it mentioned in the coach reports

[Johnny Ace]

11 minutes ago, Brother Ben said:

Not if he has a reserved personality iirc

I'm sure I've seen it mentioned in the coach reports

Yeah, that's right, Reserved media handling has low Controversy but I can only go off the screenshot, shows Cunningham is Level Headed which is ...

Spoiler

1-14

...  so it seems it's higher than whatever Browne's is. That's excluding anyone else that has influence in the group too

[paz]

Thanks for the fascinating insights.

I only have 2 players in my squad with determination of above 15. And from everything my gut, experience, and this thread tells me, I think I want to avoid having anyone be a mentor if they have determination of 15 or less.

One of the 2 players in question doens't speak English, so it would be a bad idea him being a mentor. The other one has a 'media friendly' style, which could indicate controversy?  Also he's a bit part player and isn't in a prominent social group, so perhaps would be a bad choice. I think I may try him with some low determination youngsters and see how it goes.

[paz]

Actually scrap that, I have noticed that the player in question is selfish (low teamwork) so that would be a bad idea. I'll have a look for a model pro in the jan transfer market to mentor some players.

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, paz said:

Actually scrap that, I have noticed that the player in question is selfish (low teamwork) so that would be a bad idea. I'll have a look for a model pro in the jan transfer market to mentor some players.

I might be wrong but I don't think Team Work rubs off on the mentee, only Determination and the hiddens  

You're right on the whole Determination thing, when setting your groups, always check the Mentor has the highest Determination in the group, unless you don't mind the drops  

[fc.cadoni]

Increasing Pressure hidden attribute is good, actually very good sign. Can impact player performance a lot.

[enigmatic]

14 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

Increasing Pressure hidden attribute is good, actually very good sign. Can impact player performance a lot.

Yeah, pressure is probably one of the most underrated attributes  (generally one you get more indication from "media handling" than "personality")

[Iggy Hassan]

My absolute biggest bugbear with mentoring young players is, you have to place the youngsters in your first team for them to be mentored by your older players. Seems daft to me.

[fc.cadoni]

5 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Yeah, pressure is probably one of the most underrated attributes  (generally one you get more indication from "media handling" than "personality")

Which one is better you think, about Media Handling Style for Pressure? Evasive, Reserved or Media Friendly?

[enigmatic]

Evasive and Unflappable means high Pressure

They stack, so an "Evasive, Reserved" player has good pressure (and low controversy compared with a player who is just "Evasive"), and a player who is Reserved but not Evasive has Pressure below 14

Media Friendly is meaningless with respect to Pressure

This very good resource someone made gives you all the combos https://kelron1.github.io/FMScouting/personality.html

 

 

 

 

[fc.cadoni]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

Evasive and Unflappable means high Pressure

They stack, so an "Evasive, Reserved" player has good pressure (and low controversy compared with a player who is just "Evasive"), and a player who is Reserved but not Evasive has Pressure below 14

Media Friendly is meaningless with respect to Pressure

This very good resource someone made gives you all the combos https://kelron1.github.io/FMScouting/personality.html

 

 

 

 

Super nice! Thank you!