Simple crafting of a 4-3-3 DM

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Sometimes I think I overcomplicate it...why did I fell in love exactly with this one, in a topic with so many options and permutations? 

2 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

Maybe it is part of my prejudice and thoughts that a small team should use very simple tactics, which is not necessarily true. And I have been training different strategies for different kinds of match so I will probably be fine.

Depends how simple, these are designed to be simple barring one or two that use roles you wouldn't find at every club in the World but they can be worked around. The False 9 is one I realised I haven't touched on yet

7 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

 

I will put my scouts to dig out RPMs and Registas around and I will look for them myself too, maybe I can find another good options or maybe a young player to be retrained. I think it will be much easier than trying to tweak and adjust a tactic that is exactly build around these roles.

 

 Sounds like a plan  Look for one with the Dictates Tempo trait 

[Socerer 01]

On 28/07/2023 at 22:59, Johnny Ace said:

On request for @HanziZoloman

4-3-3 DM - RPM(S) at Centre Midfield - LLM style

I've tried fitting it to your players from your tactic, keeping it simple and straight forward

The backline is nothing out of the ordinary, I've used a FB(A) with the Dribble Less PI at rightback to try and get that interaction with the RPM, the leftback is free to go forward and create the overlap on the left, he can be bumped up to Attack if needed

If your 'keeper can't play Sweeper Keeper, drop the D-Line and just play a GK(D)

The midfield, Anchor to keep it simple, a BWM to break up play and the RPM. The FB(A) helps tuck in a little more than a WB to help keep midfield solidity with the RPM's roaming on the right hand side. I've added Dribble More to my RPM because he's a fantastic ball carrier and I love to encourage those runs on the ball from midfield 

 

I've used an IF(S) on the left to offer threat and create chances, if you want your RPM as the team's "risky passer" use an IW(S) instead or use it on a situational basis ie more offense needed use the IF, less offense needed use the IW. The Wingback will stay wide to allow the left attacker to move infield. The Winger to provide the width on the right, FB can then drift infield. So two different combinations on the flanks for variety 

 

Feel free to use a Poacher, PF(A) or an Advanced Forward, either way you want them pushing on and looking for balls over the top

Full tactic, including TI's 

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I prefer the Midblock in the YAC, no point in chasing high up the field with the players you have. I like to push the D-Line up and use a SK for team compactness. The Trigger Press is up to you.

Counter, of course, it's a great shape to counter and with pace in the front 3, it can be vital. Distribute to centre backs to try and encourage progressive passes into the RPM.

Passing length is up to you but I like to keep it short with an influential playmaker. Fairly Narrow helps the team on and off the ball, with the Wing players there's natural width so you can go Narrow if you wish and open it up as needed. 

I tried out my version for a match and the RPM picked up two assists, bonus GIFS 

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I tried out the above version too, GIF time 

  Hide contents

 

what changes would you make to this if you were managing an elite team like you said you were? Bump up the press for eg? 

[Mutumba]

Ive noticed a lot are using Mezzala AT along with a Cms/BBM.

But I feel that its difficult to pinpoint what exactley the Mezzala needs to be good at. Sure, I can look at the role within the game but there are so many attributes taht are highlighted. I mean, is the mezzala predominantly a dribbler that carries the ball (touch, dribbling, speed), is he a playmaker-ish (passing, vision) or is he a player that shows up late in the box and smashed them in (speed, off the ball movement, decision). 

Im using a mezzAT with a BBM and DLPd, balanced mentality and higher tempo. But I dont know how to recruit it properly.

 

What attributes do you hold higher? Is speed more important than work rate? Is passing more important than balance? and so on. What have you noticed to be key attibutes for that role?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mutumba

[Johnny Ace]

4 hours ago, Socerer 01 said:

what changes would you make to this if you were managing an elite team like you said you were? Bump up the press for eg? 

Yeah, I bumped up the press, lines, Counter Press and used a CF(A) so he was always pushing up

39 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

Ive noticed a lot are using Mezzala AT along with a Cms/BBM.

But I feel that its difficult to pinpoint what exactley the Mezzala needs to be good at. Sure, I can look at the role within the game but there are so many attributes taht are highlighted. I mean, is the mezzala predominantly a dribbler that carries the ball (touch, dribbling, speed), is he a playmaker-ish (passing, vision) or is he a player that shows up late in the box and smashed them in (speed, off the ball movement, decision). 

Im using a mezzAT with a BBM and DLPd, balanced mentality and higher tempo. But I dont know how to recruit it properly.

 

What attributes do you hold higher? Is speed more important than work rate? Is passing more important than balance? and so on. What have you noticed to be key attibutes for that role?

Depends what you want him to do and what you see him doing in your system. There's loads of threads on here about Mezzalas 

This is an interesting one 

 

[Vizzini]

44 minutes ago, Mutumba said:

Ive noticed a lot are using Mezzala AT along with a Cms/BBM.

But I feel that its difficult to pinpoint what exactley the Mezzala needs to be good at. Sure, I can look at the role within the game but there are so many attributes taht are highlighted. I mean, is the mezzala predominantly a dribbler that carries the ball (touch, dribbling, speed), is he a playmaker-ish (passing, vision) or is he a player that shows up late in the box and smashed them in (speed, off the ball movement, decision). 

Im using a mezzAT with a BBM and DLPd, balanced mentality and higher tempo. But I dont know how to recruit it properly.

 

What attributes do you hold higher? Is speed more important than work rate? Is passing more important than balance? and so on. What have you noticed to be key attibutes for that role?

Look at what the role is asked to do:
Gets further forward: Pace, stamina, off the ball, anticipation, work rate
More risky passes: Technique, passing, first touch, vision, composure

The role also gets in the box and a lot (and occasionally goes wide) so other important (but not vital) attributes would be finishing, crossing, and maybe long shots.

Traits are also important, so I would look for gets forward whenever possible/gets into opposition area, tries more risky passes, plays one-twos.

As for model players, think Bruno Fernandez, Kevin de Bruyne, Dominik Szoboszlai.

[Johnny Ace]

I was certain I'd posted a simple overload 4-3-3 DM on here but I don't see one, basically helps open up space for an IF(A)/ RMD(RIP). I've been looking at Pressing Forward on Defend and Regista/ F9 versions too so this a reminder to post them up some time   

[Oppiiz]

A fantastic thread that has gotten me thinker around shapes, tactics and how things work.

Just started a save with Valencia where my main aim is to play 4-3-3. But change out some roles depending on the opposition.

 

This will be my main shape. I've never used a Pressing Forward before, but Cavani's mentals and workrate is something else. So wanted to see how that goes.
When I am facing stronger oppositions I might change the BBM to a BWM, the CM(a) to a BBM, and the right wingback to a fullback. 

I also think about giving it a go using the "Focus play down the left" to free up the "space" for the CM(a) to attack.

Am I on to something here, or totally lost?

[Johnny Ace]

2 minutes ago, Oppiiz said:

I also think about giving it a go using the "Focus play down the left" to free up the "space" for the CM(a) to attack.

Am I on to something here, or totally lost?

Give it try!  Sounds a good idea, wether it works out or not is up to you. 

[Johnny Ace]

2 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

I was certain I'd posted a simple overload 4-3-3 DM on here but I don't see one, basically helps open up space for an IF(A)/ RMD(RIP) ....

It's the False 9 one that includes the overload but I've already drafted up another with a DLF so I may as well post that one up too

[Tsuru]

Em 28/07/2023 em 18:29, Johnny Ace disse:

On request for @HanziZoloman

4-3-3 DM - RPM(S) at Centre Midfield - LLM style

After a little consideration I decided to keep and develop a tactic based in this version. As a LLM it will be much easier to find an Anchorman and it can be very difficult to play without a holding DM, especially when teams try to send though balls using the middle of my defence. At the same time, using a Roaming PM in a more advanced position seems less risky and less demanding.

My version has some small tweaks, like an IW instead of a normal W and a higher focus on ball control (although it is not a possession tactic). I will bring it here soon and I will let you know how is it going.

Thanks again @Johnny Ace!

[Vladis]

I`m absolutely in love with 4-3-3 and this thread Probably I`m not so patient or smart enough to set-up other formations working how I want them to. 

What I found (not only regarding to 4-3-3) is that simplicity is a key. I`m in the end of 3rd season with Lyon and though we have a lot of success in all competitions I was tinkering a lot with tactic this season and lost stability and balance in the game. I think I overdid it with the number of tactical instructions and risky player roles. So near to the end of April I returned it back to basics, starting from the scratch.

 

Depending on a player I switch DLF to CF and to add more dynamic to the midfield sometimes I switch CAR to B2B. Only few PI: left full-back is told to get further forward, IW - stay wider, BPD and CD - close down less.

I found compactness crucial so higher D-line with mid-block is my way to go. If I face dangerous opponent with quick attacking players, I add Drop Off More instruction.  Later in the game when we are leading, I add instructions like waste time and/or slow pace down. 

Some results: below are the matches with top French sides Monaco and PSG (still with Neymar-Messi-Mbappe trio), CL quarter final game with Villareal (in the first game we lost 0-3 and It was the signal for tactical changes) and absolutely mad game with Nantes.

   

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Vladis

[Johnny Ace]

That misses a lot of the points I've made in this thread @Vladis but these are only my own "guild lines" and suggestions, you're free to play as you like and you've hit onto something that works well for your team, well done   

[Johnny Ace]

The one nobody asked for .....

4-3-3 DM - The Pressing Forward (Defend)

Bit of a novelty tactic this one, I wouldn't really recommend a PF(D) in a 4-3-3 but thought I'd have a go anyway, it was quite fun and plays out alright. It started out using two wide "strikers" but I switched up with a goal threat from deeper 

There's nothing special about the backline but note the Fullback

Into midfield and we use a trio we've used before but includes everyone's favourite, the CM(A), lethal these things are 

He's over on the left where we have the FB(S), he'll help lockdown that left hand side for us, the DM(S) will shove up just a little in possession to help fill the void 

 

Now the interesting bit the PF(D), don't be fooled by this guy, he will score goals, he's still a striker. Even with Shoot Less Often, given a good chance, he will. Out of possession, he'll be dropping into midfield to cause havoc, when possession is turned back over, he'll move back up the pitch. Obviously there will be time's where he can't get back forward quick enough, this is where the IF(A) comes in. We can designate a wide forward to be a goal scorer without an issue. On the left is just a Winger, him being out wide can draw the fullback over to him leaving extra space the CM(A) to punch threw but he's still important for getting balls into the box and scoring the odd goal 

 

Play out of Defence is optional, Tempo again, could be slowed down, depends how you want to play and I used Fairly Narrow to try and bring the IF(A) a bit closer to goal 

The Midblock with the Higher D-Line was to try and compress things a little, I didn't want us pressing high up the field, keep it tight and snap at them in midfield. The main issue I had was long shots, too many for my liking so things could be tweaked 

Full tactic

Spoiler

 

 

[w_x]

What about a 433 which moves to a 235 in build up, wide wingers, centre midfields moving up, inverted wing backs?

[Johnny Ace]

28 minutes ago, w_x said:

What about a 433 which moves to a 235 in build up, wide wingers, centre midfields moving up, inverted wing backs?

Something you could try, would think it would be easier to use two Wingbacks on attack and invert the wide forwards though 

[ejleal]

5 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

That misses a lot of the points I've made in this thread @Vladis but these are only my own "guild lines" and suggestions, you're free to play as you like and you've hit onto something that works well for your team, well done   

the midfield probably works in because he reduced the space between the lines, as he's playing with high line but mid block.

[ejleal]

Tactic for second season in my braga save. What you think? @Johnny Ace

 

 

[Johnny Ace]

Looks sound to me @ejleal  You having fun with it?

[ejleal]

yeah. In the last third of the previous season I started to use the mezzala in attack duty and it definitely helped to create more chances. Also I put the left fullback in attack duty (as shown) instead of the right and was good seeing the combinations he made with the IF down the left side.

However I had various games where i struggled to create goal opportunities, which resulted in several points lost (only finished 4th place). I suspect it had to do with lack of space I had in attack due to using a very high dline.

 

[Johnny Ace]

8 minutes ago, ejleal said:

yeah. In the last third of the previous season I started to use the mezzala in attack duty and it definitely helped to create more chances. Also I put the left fullback in attack duty (as shown) instead of the right and was good seeing the combinations he made with the IF down the left side.

It's very similar to something I'm putting together now, a simple overload, trying to get the IF scoring 

9 minutes ago, ejleal said:

However I had various games where i struggled to create goal opportunities, which resulted in several points lost (only finished 4th place). I suspect it had to do with lack of space I had in attack due to using a very high dline.

You should be alright with the DLF, you could pop him on Support, he might be breaking forward too soon 

[HanziZoloman]

How about a IF(A) with a P and a W(S) in counterattacking 433 could that work (?) with the other roles accordingly

I suddenly have massive trouble in the YAC and need to stabilize the team with a counter tactic

Edited August 3, 2023 by HanziZoloman

[Johnny Ace]

11 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

How about a IF(A) with a P and a W(S) in counterattacking 433 could that work (?) with the other roles accordingly

Yeah, an IF(A) will be fine in that one I did for you 

12 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

I suddenly have massive trouble in the YAC and need to stabilize the team with a counter tactic

Shipping goals not scoring?

[HanziZoloman]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Johnny Ace:

Yeah, an IF(A) will be fine in that one I did for you 

Shipping goals not scoring?

yes basically ... plus red cards, penalties ... you know all that. The one with the RPM fits counterattacking. too?

[Johnny Ace]

5 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

yes basically ... plus red cards, penalties ... you know all that. The one with the RPM fits counterattacking. too?

There's nothing the tactic can do about the red cards and penalties unless you've added tackle harder or have a load of angry players or something 

Just plugging in one of my templates probably isn't the solution, in fact if you're getting played through easily, I'd lose the playmaker, you can always just use a CM(S) and add Take More Risks. Have you looked it why any of the issues are occurring? Are you seeing patterns that bother you etc? Like I said, get a good idea of the issues and start a fresh thread. The YAC is a tough tough challenge where you have to deal with a lot of poor players  

[Tsuru]

4 horas atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

There's nothing the tactic can do about the red cards and penalties unless you've added tackle harder or have a load of angry players or something 

Just plugging in one of my templates probably isn't the solution, in fact if you're getting played through easily, I'd lose the playmaker, you can always just use a CM(S) and add Take More Risks. Have you looked it why any of the issues are occurring? Are you seeing patterns that bother you etc? Like I said, get a good idea of the issues and start a fresh thread. The YAC is a tough tough challenge where you have to deal with a lot of poor players  

I would say a simple CM-S with "Take more risks", "Roam from position" and maybe "Get Further Forward", to mimic the playmaker's behaviour without the burden of being the team's playmaker. CM is very simple to find and with PIs you can have a very nice and balanced role.

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, Tsuru said:

 CM is very simple to find and with PIs you can have a very nice and balanced role.

I agree, PPMs and Attributes can also massively influence how they play, no two CM(S)'s will play the same. Vastly underrated role  

[HanziZoloman]

Wow need to open a thread for it. I need help we're going down ...

[mikcheck]

@Johnny Ace being a top team is "Be More Expressive" something you normally use? Another question related to that TI is, does it still make sense to use it if your playing style is a medium block?

[Johnny Ace]

26 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

@Johnny Ace being a top team is "Be More Expressive" something you normally use? 

Absolutely! It's one of those TI's that makes me think "When else should I use it?!" 

 

27 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

 Another question related to that TI is, does it still make sense to use it if your playing style is a medium block?

I normally use it when I'm pushing up the field and compressing the space, I want the players to be a bit more fluid and creative, to help find space and do something off the script. I don't usually use it in a mid block but I don't see why you couldn't  

[josel15]

Don't really post much, usually, but with my gripes with the ME this year, I didn't really post at all, except for criticism.

But I saw this thread and had to login and give an applause to you, @Johnny Ace. Such a great thread, one of those that is bookmarked when I will be facing difficulties and friends ask me help on Football Manager.

Great thread.

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by josel15

[Johnny Ace]

Thank you @josel15 hope you find it useful 

[josel15]

This thread gave me the itch, and as so...I am going back to FM21. 

 

The tactic

Spoiler

The key players, and why I'm copying a bit of your third tactic, but putting a mezzala (honestly, thinking of putting a AP on support there).

Spoiler

 

Would you make any change, @Johnny Ace

[Johnny Ace]

That looks coherent to me @josel15!

Jeremie Boga is a blast from the past

[Yisz]

I'm running this 4-3-3 at Stade Rennais over in France season 36/37. We're expected to finish 5th but are sitting in 7th (XG puts us in 5th and from what I can see in highlights we're missing lots of chances).

Would love to get your insights and I have a couple of questions. 

TI's:

None in possession

Distribute to CB and counter in transition

Mid block out of possession

These alter between games though, I might have a high block with counter press and no counter and a SK-D in goal against weaker opponents

In a mid block I sometimes change my CF to AF if I'm the underdog. 

Sometimes I even go low block vs the top 2 teams.

 

Questions:

- My best player is the left winger, which makes me wonder if I should put him on attack? His work rate makes me think not to do so...

- I absolutely love Andersen, he's a hard working ball stealing demon. He plays well in the anchor role although that might limit him? Should I change to DM(d)?

- Mejri is my RPM, I think he's more than suitable enough to play that role?

[josel15]

7 horas atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

That looks coherent to me @josel15!

Jeremie Boga is a blast from the past

I've only played one game with the tactic, and if it is any indication, Boga will feast this season.

One thing that I am really finding now, is the concept of putting Ince as the CM(s) and give him the more direct/riskier passing and having a box to box on the right, since I have Mady Camara as that runner and someone who is very versatile and has the "gets further forward" player trait (or keep him as the mezzala), The concept of balancing everything instead of putting roles and everything will work out fine and thinking more "real life" instead of trying to break the game is a shift that I had to do, but never wanted.

But from what I've seen so fair, eveything ticks very beautifully.

Edited August 5, 2023 by josel15

[Johnny Ace]

On 05/08/2023 at 13:37, Yisz said:

Questions:

- My best player is the left winger, which makes me wonder if I should put him on attack? His work rate makes me think not to do so...

I think no too

On 05/08/2023 at 13:37, Yisz said:

- I absolutely love Andersen, he's a hard working ball stealing demon. He plays well in the anchor role although that might limit him? Should I change to DM(d)

Yeah, an Anchor is a bit like a limited DM and Anderson can pick a pass for sure, look at those Traits, very much like a Playmaker and he's got the physicals to boot 

On 05/08/2023 at 13:37, Yisz said:

- Mejri is my RPM, I think he's more than suitable enough to play that role?

Yeah, he sure looks it, some great players there!!

The overall setup looks good, I think the FB(S) could offer a bit more, an FB(A) or WB(S) might be worth a try 

[hotredabyss]

@Johnny Ace i've read most of your topic and it's great, it gave me some good ideas, as a big 4-3-3 fan its amazing seeing many different concepts being applied to it, but i don't think i've seen what i wanted to understand. My concern rn is more about 1) taking the best out of a Winger as a "disruptive" player, someone wide with the freedom to dribble more, bomb the area and scoring, and 2) using a midfielder who gets on the area to score, making runs but also being the playmaker of the team, pretty much a De Bruyne replica. I tried the Mezzala(A) but i dont want him to drift wider, just to stay on the center of the pitch with many passing options. As i've said on another topic, i also wanted to know, if i want the winger on the opposite side of the winger to be more of a creator/runner than a scorer without being too wide, which role and PI you think fits that idea? I don't want him to be way too wide, but also not too much on the center of the pitch ( is that even possible to achieve on current FM? ). I'm not at home rn so i can't give any screenshot to use as basis, so im using a third rate apo just to illustrate and make easier to understand what i want 😁

[Johnny Ace]

An AP(A) and an IW(S)? Unless you have a great team though I think the midfield will struggle, I'm not one for pairing DM(S), BBMs and Mezzs/playmaker etc with Wingers(A) tbh, you've seen my thread 

[hotredabyss]

14 minutos atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

An AP(A) and an IW(S)? Unless you have a great team though I think the midfield will struggle, I'm not one for pairing DM(S), BBMs and Mezzs/playmaker etc with Wingers(A) tbh, you've seen my thread 

It's more of a concept tbh, not putting this on pratice, but i simply don't know which roles could fit in. I really want to get the best out of those two (Winger with great flair and dribbling on left staying wider and the central midfielder with good passing/technique/flair/vision) as they're my 2 best players and i think a system gettin the best out of both would be cool to play with. (Tbh i have a 35 years old Lucas Pérez with good passing, technique and first touch for second division of la liga being my starter on the Right wing, but he doesn't really have the pace and agility to keep up with the play, which is why im asking a role besides AP 💀)

About the DM, i do have two decent DM's with good work rate, team work and bravery, so maybe an Anchorman would fit the idea of a player protecting the backline and being a safe passing option when my CM's are being pressured? I really don't know how to get a tactic off these, i usually like to have 3 technical midfielders with 1 of them being that Kanté-esque player, but i don't have the budget for that so i have to use more of a "DM(D)-B2B-playmaker/runner" trio bc its what i have rn 🤔

Edited August 6, 2023 by hotredabyss

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, hotredabyss said:

It's more of a concept tbh, not putting this on pratice, but i simply don't know which roles could fit in. I really want to get the best out of those two (Winger with great flair and dribbling on left staying wider and the central midfielder with good passing/technique/flair/vision) as they're my 2 best players and i think a system gettin the best out of both would be cool to play with. About the DM, i do have two decent DM's with good work rate, team work and bravery, so maybe an Anchorman would fit the idea of a player protecting the backline and being a safe passing option when my CM's are being pressured? I really don't know how to get a tactic off these, i usually like to have 3 technical midfielders with 1 of them being that Kanté-esque player, but i don't have the budget for that so i have to use more of a "DM(D)-B2B-playmaker/runner" trio bc its what i have rn 🤔

Alright, that's making more sense to me, is the BBM needed? If the player's technical does he need to be a surging and roaming role? If he's technically brilliant, even as a CM(S) he'll still show it off 

You know me, I've put up a dozen or so 4-3-3's, they're all pretty straight forward/ boring () I don't think any of them have more than one named role in midfield

Something like... 

 ... would be a starting point for me. Both flanks give something different and the middle 3 provide the defence, support and threat you want  

   

[hotredabyss]

11 minutos atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

Alright, that's making more sense to me, is the BBM needed? If the player's technical does he need to be a surging and roaming role? If he's technically brilliant, even as a CM(S) he'll still show it off 

You know me, I've put up a dozen or so 4-3-3's, they're all pretty straight forward/ boring () I don't think any of them have more than one named role in midfield

Something like... 

 ... would be a starting point for me. Both flanks give something different and the middle 3 provide the defence, support and threat you want  

   

That's a pretty good start, will work off this, thank you. My left WB is more of a defensive player, which is why i've using him as FB(S) and the B2B with "Gets futher forward" on, but i will try this. One more thing tho, which PI's would you use for the AP and IW? Both on gets further forward or just the AP? You think asking the IW to "Sit Narrower" could be better than not marking any? I was training both of them to make 1-2's, so maybe this isn't a bad idea?

[Panosgeo79]

Hi Johnny Ace

Brilliant thread indeed

What are your thoughts of using a roaming playmaker and a btb as 8s in front of a dm on defend or a halfback?

Do you think that you need a talented team to cover them in defence?

[Johnny Ace]

1 minute ago, hotredabyss said:

One more thing tho, which PI's would you use for the AP and IW? Both on gets further forward or just the AP? You think asking the IW to "Sit Narrower" could be better than not marking any? I was training both of them to make 1-2's, so maybe this isn't a bad idea?

I wouldn't use any PIs but this is your recipe, try them out and see how they play. The W(A) and AF(A) already have Gets Further Forward plus the Wingbacks if you use them, if you want Gets Further Forward on more players, a 4-3-3 might not be the shape you want    One Twos is always a nice Trait for the right player, I don't think it deviates away from a tactic  

[Johnny Ace]

3 minutes ago, Panosgeo79 said:

Hi Johnny Ace

Brilliant thread indeed

What are your thoughts of using a roaming playmaker and a btb as 8s in front of a dm on defend or a halfback?

Do you think that you need a talented team to cover them in defence?

Thank you! 

Yeah, with a strong DM and team, that would be fine by me 

[Bitner]

@TheMartello as you asked

PIs

RB - Run wide with the ball, stay wider

LB - Dribble More, Stay Wider

DM - more direct passes, take more risks

RCM - More direct passes, take more risks, moves into channels, Roam from position

RW/LW - Roam from position, Sit Narrower, They change positions between themselves. that creates a situation that they're not shown the outside everytime they got the ball, as both have the inverted foot as the stronger foot.

Cheers,
Bitner 

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Bitner

[hotredabyss]

3 horas atrás, Johnny Ace disse:

I wouldn't use any PIs but this is your recipe, try them out and see how they play. The W(A) and AF(A) already have Gets Further Forward plus the Wingbacks if you use them, if you want Gets Further Forward on more players, a 4-3-3 might not be the shape you want    One Twos is always a nice Trait for the right player, I don't think it deviates away from a tactic  

The AP also have some good finishing and he did score a couple of goalies appearing on the box, on this save i've been using both him and the CM(S) (and yes, hes a pretty decent B2B player with great technique, i actually think hes my third best player lmao) with gets further forward, i know it's a pretty different approach but as Jorge Sampaoli is the current manager of my irl club and he already said he always wants to attack with 6 players, i liked the idea and tried to fit that concept on this 4-3-3 ( in fact, at some point i tried to cook with the IWGB to act like the second B2B ) and using those 6 players to stretch opposition and attack the box, even tho we shaped differently than a 3-1-6, i dont know if that is possible on a 433, so that is also a reasoning for ticking those 😁

Again, great thread, really opened my eyes as i always used to only play the 4-3-3 on a generic gegenpress with IF, im gonna try other 2 variants for different scenarios in this same save and test it out if we get promoted 

Edited August 6, 2023 by hotredabyss

[HanziZoloman]

Am 2.4.2023 um 09:59 schrieb Johnny Ace:

The two midfield “8’s” serve an important job to link, supply, cover and create. Both wingbacks will be getting forward, both wide attackers will be moving infield, I don’t need either of these two trying to get too far forward and piling into the box. If they did that, they might break too far away from the DM and create a huge chasm of space in the midfield which would cause us problems in build-up and transition. Two Central Midfielders on Support here would do the job but let’s have some fun.

A natural ball winner could help patrol the right hand side of midfield with the WB(A) on that flank. A BBM(S) on the left side of central midfield would help offer something different. BBMs like to surge between the boxes and roam, having the WB(S) on his side of the field would tie up nicely.

I have a WB(A) and a WB(S) and A(D) and you know MC(S) and MEZ(S) you know my front teeth. 
the MEZ will get in the way of the IW(S) or they slump up as you said. If my MEZ is a creative player with great vision but slower or not as mobile like a B2B which roles are better suited? 
as you described, supply, cover and protect two MC(S) with PIs would do it (?) or a BWM and a MC(S) depends on the player who’s playing but it doesn’t need to be any fancy stuff (?) and if he is as well a good shooter and finisher and I don’t want the MC(A) because of compactness I just add shot more often (?)

[Johnny Ace]

The idea of the thread is keeping it simple, coherent and mixing up things in attack 

38 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

I have a WB(A) and a WB(S) and A(D) and you know MC(S) and MEZ(S) you know my front teeth. 
the MEZ will get in the way of the IW(S) or they slump up as you said. If my MEZ is a creative player with great vision but slower or not as mobile like a B2B which roles are better suited? 

I'm not sure what the question is pal 

39 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

as you described, supply, cover and protect two MC(S) with PIs would do it (?) or a BWM and a MC(S) depends on the player who’s playing but it doesn’t need to be any fancy stuff (?) and if he is as well a good shooter and finisher and I don’t want the MC(A) because of compactness I just add shot more often (?)

CM(S)'s with PMs is fine, so long as you're not adding Roam from Position or Get Further Forward, they won't affect the structure of the tactic. If you have a CM with great long shots go for it 

[HanziZoloman]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb Johnny Ace:

I'm not sure what the question is pal 

vor einer Stunde schrieb HanziZoloman:

Was just spilling my thoughts. I‘ve been reading the first sections of the thread again und stumbled over the tactics with WBs and how you described the triangle and realised that the MEZ even on (S) is maybe not the best solution for a midfield with a (D) in DM.

but your answer already helped.

Plus: if the Poacher is the only attack duty it’s no problem anyway?

Edited August 7, 2023 by HanziZoloman

[Johnny Ace]

7 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

Was just spilling my thoughts. I‘ve been reading the first sections of the thread again und stumbled over the tactics with WBs and how you described the triangle and realised that the MEZ even on (S) is maybe not the best solution for a midfield with a (D) in DM.

but your answer already helped.

With you 

To be honest, your players, even for the VNN, don't look that great, I'm being harsh again sorry  but Mezzalas or BBMs aren't going to make or break your tactic, tactics are such a small part of the YAC. You've been fighting for 10 years, keep on fighting, you're doing a great job and no doubt learning absolutely loads