Do staff mental attributes make any difference?

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

Do better motivators gets more out of players? Does having a disciplined fitness coach matter? Do personalities of staff impact players or the club atmosphere at all? Should you take the time to build your back room staff or just leave it? 

[Dotsworthy]

Motivation, Determination and Level of Discipline effect the coach rating of the staff member. To get a five star coach requires at least fairly high in some/all of these.

HOYD and youth manager personalities can influence the personalities of your youth intake.

Your Assistant will do better in press conferences and give better team talk/interaction advice with good man management I believe.

[phnompenhandy]

3 hours ago, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Do better motivators gets more out of players? Does having a disciplined fitness coach matter? Do personalities of staff impact players or the club atmosphere at all? Should you take the time to build your back room staff or just leave it? 

You can see yourself that coaches with high DDM have more coaching stars than coaches with low DDM.

[Marko1989]

I always wondered something similar - is there any proof that more coaching stars really have impact on anything?

For example is there any proof that if you have a coach with 20 attacking 20 motivation and 20 lod ( 5 stars ) will make your player attributes in that department grow faster/better than if you have 3 stars?

I remember before, I think it was FM2015, sometimes I didn't bring good coaches because I hate to search for them, and I didn't notice any difference in player development or in my game even if I had coaches with 2-3 stars, and I was always buying the same wonderkids, their development was the same no matter how good my coaches were. So I am really curious if there are any real proofs that coaches with good technical and mental attributes really have an impact on players

[Daniel Evensen]

I played around with this in an old save that was unfortunately abandoned due to computer errors.

I strongly believe that staff personality makes more of a difference than we think.  We know that the Head of Youth Development personality has a huge impact on the personalities of newgens that come through each year.  However, I suspect that the personalities of other staff members can also have an impact on the overall level of team professionalism, as well as on the type of players that come through.

If you actually pay attention to it, you can sometimes get better bargains on staff members with high levels of potential by signing less experienced staff that haven't yet completed coaching courses.  The attributes of your staff grow similar to how your attributes grow.

As far as coaching attributes are concerned, Evidence Based Football Manager has shown that they do have an impact on player development, though it's not as powerful as that famous combination of player Determination, Professionalism, and Ambition.

[upthetoon]

Someone needs to run a soak test on this. After playing this game so many years, I always felt staff attributes are irrelevant and makes no difference. 

This is my gut feel about this. Someone needs to test it out and see the outcome. 

But staff personality affects your young player traits. This much is proven. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by upthetoon

[kingjericho]

When looking for staff I only look to the following:

• adaptability, determination, JPA and JPP for Scouts
• negotiating for the DOF
• JPA and JPP for the Ass Man
• for coaches / physios / sports scientists I add a "rating" column on staff search and get the ones with most stars

[Dotsworthy]

10 hours ago, Marko1989 said:

I always wondered something similar - is there any proof that more coaching stars really have impact on anything?

For example is there any proof that if you have a coach with 20 attacking 20 motivation and 20 lod ( 5 stars ) will make your player attributes in that department grow faster/better than if you have 3 stars?

I remember before, I think it was FM2015, sometimes I didn't bring good coaches because I hate to search for them, and I didn't notice any difference in player development or in my game even if I had coaches with 2-3 stars, and I was always buying the same wonderkids, their development was the same no matter how good my coaches were. So I am really curious if there are any real proofs that coaches with good technical and mental attributes really have an impact on players

Evidence Based Football Manager has videos on the subject on YouTube and proved it has some impact. The impact is smaller than people think as game time is more important from 18 onwards but with a lot of systems in FM every little helps.

[fc.cadoni]

CA 200 with Level of Discipline 20 is 5*
CA 200 with Level of Discipline 1 is 4,5*

Is it worth? Not 100% sure, but I don't overlook star rating for coaches.

[eXistenZ]

Followup question: how much does a language barrier matter for coaches?

[phnompenhandy]

23 hours ago, upthetoon said:

Someone needs to run a soak test on this. After playing this game so many years, I always felt staff attributes are irrelevant and makes no difference. 

This is my gut feel about this. Someone needs to test it out and see the outcome. 

 

Evidence-Based Football Manager on YouTube did test this. I get slaughtered for linking to him here, so have a look yourself if you're interested.

[rsihn]

On 09/03/2023 at 10:52, bielsadidnothingwrong said:

Do better motivators gets more out of players? Does having a disciplined fitness coach matter? Do personalities of staff impact players or the club atmosphere at all? Should you take the time to build your back room staff or just leave it? 

Yes, motivating is an absolutely key component of coaching.  Inability to motivate means that a staff member is no longer suitable to be a coaching staff member and needs to move over to working as a scout.  This is the exact progression you see as a coaching team member gets older and naturally loses their points in their motivating stat in FM. 

Level of discipline is another absolutely key component of coaching.   Low discipline means the staff member is allowing the players to cut corners in training and the players won't get as many of the benefits of that training session as they should. 

Coaching staff need 45 combined points in determination, level of discipline, and motivating to be able to achieve a 5 star coaching level.  Determination and discipline are largely fixed stats that don't change for staff members (there are some small exceptions but I'm going to ignore those situation as they are fairly rare) which leaves motivating as the only stat in the DDM that can change.  You can easily do the math from here and realize that you need at least 25 points in determination and discipline to begin with and then you need to develop motivating up to reach 45 points.  There are various coach calculators on the net that you use to evaluate any of your current or prospective staff members. 

Build your backroom staff.  They are more valuable than players to me. 

[bielsadidnothingwrong]

51 minutes ago, rsihn said:

Build your backroom staff.  They are more valuable than players to me. 

Thank you for the detailed reply!

[DominicForza]

What about other "personality" attributes like sportsmanship, temperament, controversy etc?   I've always HOPED and acted as if they impact player/squad personalities (my understanding is Head of Youth Development's personality traits have some influence on personalities of regens).  I dont know if any of this is true...I fear finding out it is not and losing the illusion (delusion?).

[Daniel Evensen]

On 11/03/2023 at 08:18, phnompenhandy said:

Evidence-Based Football Manager on YouTube did test this. I get slaughtered for linking to him here, so have a look yourself if you're interested.

I'm surprised people would be upset with you for linking him here.  Max's work is excellent, and I haven't noticed any backlash for linking to him (which I do often).

Here's the link to his channel.

[Maviarab]

On 11/03/2023 at 17:01, rsihn said:

Yes, motivating is an absolutely key component of coaching.  Inability to motivate means that a staff member is no longer suitable to be a coaching staff member and needs to move over to working as a scout.

Surely that would make them awful scouts too.  So it either matters, or it doesn't...

"James..I need this kid scouting in the Icelandic 15th tier...wrap up warm...will be cold".

*James, sat at home in front of the fire with his pipe and slippers*..

"Sure thing boss....headin' out the door right now..."

*james puts the phone down*...meh....I'll go later....or tomorrow...I could just say I went and he was rubbuish...not like the boss would know....time for a nap...."man I love being a scout instead of a coach."

 

Edited March 14, 2023 by Maviarab
Formatting and grammar

[Daniel Evensen]

LOL!  Yeah, you need scouts who have at least some kind of adaptability rating.  It does make a difference, as I've learned.

However, I've grown weary of trying to min/max my staff.  I just let the technical director make those signings and work with what I've got.  Except for the HOYD, of course — nobody can touch that but me.

[rsihn]

8 hours ago, Maviarab said:

Surely that would make them awful scouts too.  So it either matters, or it doesn't...

"James..I need this kid scouting in the Icelandic 15th tier...wrap up warm...will be cold".

*James, sat at home in front of the fire with his pipe and slippers*..

"Sure thing boss....headin' out the door right now..."

*james puts the phone down*...meh....I'll go later....or tomorrow...I could just say I went and he was rubbuish...not like the boss would know....time for a nap...."man I love being a scout instead of a coach."

 

Is Motivating highlighted as an important stat for scouts? Who would the scout be motivating exactly?  Motivating is described in the game as "the mental ability of a staff member to motivate their players."  It goes on to say "high motivation will allow them to suitably prepared the players for a variety of situations."  It doesn't sound like any of the applies to the work of a scout.  I think you are probably confusing Motivating with Determination. 

[Rashidi]

On 11/03/2023 at 21:18, phnompenhandy said:

Evidence-Based Football Manager on YouTube did test this. I get slaughtered for linking to him here, so have a look yourself if you're interested.

Videos need to be part of the discussion, not the start of one. Here the discussion is detailed enough. And yes for years now people have been running soak tests which show the predominant mental attributes, motivating, determination and discipline. The first real soaks were done in the 2000s, and these consistently showed their importance. Since FM22, coaching qualifications and reputation have also become important but not nearly as those 3 attributes. 
 

Finally the personality of your youth staff also rubs off on younger players. A player whose personality has a good dose of determination, professionalism and ambition is valuable, because he generally develops well if you create the right conditions.

[samuelawachie]

17 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Finally the personality of your youth staff also rubs off on younger players. A player whose personality has a good dose of determination, professionalism and ambition is valuable, because he generally develops well if you create the right conditions.

I think this is the extent to which those mental attributes matter from my own experience with the game. You also often see those backroom staff in the favored personnel of the Youth products of your academy which shows that their personality definitely rubs off on the young whippersnappers. 
As for the difference an attribute or two here and there makes, I’m not quite sure.