Does anyone else feel the new ME is unplayable?

[gunner86]

Like the title says, the winter update for me has taken a tactic that has brought me relative success to one that just does not work.

My midfield, previously the most effective area of the team, is now pointless. They wait to be tackled, they pass off target, they press with the intensity off a wet sock - stopping 2 metres away from any opposition. And the AI with its new combinations and more effective countering just cuts through or around me. 
Nothing I try works, I force the opposition inside, they pass their way through, I show them outside, they score from crosses.

it’s completely ruined my save, and I feel maybe FM23 for me. It feels like it’s gone from one of the very best MEs to one of the very worst.

Or is it just me?

[FrazT]

Is your definition of unplayable when a tactic that worked before is not as effective after an update?  Whatever the definition, the answer to your question is no.  The ME is not perfect by any means but it is far from unplayable and is as good as it has been for a while IMO.

[gunner86]

It’s not that it’s not effective, it’s just completely useless, what was crisp fluid attacking movement, is now clunky, plodding, laboured play that ultimately culminates in 8 of my players clogging the opposition box before passing back to the half way line.
Perhaps it is just me, but having spent 5 months honing a tactic, only to have it all undone is a bit of a gut punch.

[Poison]

21 minutes ago, gunner86 said:

It’s not that it’s not effective, it’s just completely useless, what was crisp fluid attacking movement, is now clunky, plodding, laboured play that ultimately culminates in 8 of my players clogging the opposition box before passing back to the half way line.
Perhaps it is just me, but having spent 5 months honing a tactic, only to have it all undone is a bit of a gut punch.

Sounds like opponents play way more defensively resulting in tough to break tactics. So maybe AI "adjusted" due to change in team reputation.

[g1nh0]

I've had to tweak all of my tactics as well. Well I have to say I was extremely critical of the last patch as the ME was extremely imbalanced, unrealistic and unenjoyable to say the least - and believe stating so was highly justified.

But from what I've experienced so far, I will give credit when it is due and I think SI have done a really good job in making the game playable - and again, enjoyable. It's not perfect by any means but importantly it feels less scripted, the decisions / interactions you make in game now at times, do seem to make a difference, the matches play really well and the fun has been brought back. This is a real step forwards.

Again it's early days and haven't experimented a lot tactically thus far to see how flexible it is since this update (being able to use cautious and defensive / low block football effectively), but it also seems nice that you're not seeing over 30 goals from corners being scored in a 38 game league season too. I'm all for less exploitation at set pieces as that is another game ruiner.

I guess my only gripe is that there are actually significantly more injuries and i wouldn't mind it toned down a tad - but I guess, that's a personal preference of game enjoyment vs perceived realism. 

But, do understand the frustration when your tactics that worked previously no longer work especially when in theory they should do. Just have to try and adapt to suit the style the ME is more receptive towards. That in itself is annoying but, it's not an easy job to create a perfect engine - but I'll always hope that many tactical styles in the future can be feasible to use successfully.

[gunner86]

9 hours ago, Poison said:

Sounds like opponents play way more defensively resulting in tough to break tactics. So maybe AI "adjusted" due to change in team reputation.

I don’t think it’s this, it’s definitely something I’ve experienced. I’m playing as Bournemouth and have gone through this already with them, but was a relatively easy fix. I’m also experiencing the same issues in my multi-title winning Arsenal save where I use a very similar tactic which is also now seemingly obsolete.

 

9 hours ago, g1nh0 said:

I've had to tweak all of my tactics as well. Well I have to say I was extremely critical of the last patch as the ME was extremely imbalanced, unrealistic and unenjoyable to say the least - and believe stating so was highly justified.

But from what I've experienced so far, I will give credit when it is due and I think SI have done a really good job in making the game playable - and again, enjoyable. It's not perfect by any means but importantly it feels less scripted, the decisions / interactions you make in game now at times, do seem to make a difference, the matches play really well and the fun has been brought back. This is a real step forwards.

Again it's early days and haven't experimented a lot tactically thus far to see how flexible it is since this update (being able to use cautious and defensive / low block football effectively), but it also seems nice that you're not seeing over 30 goals from corners being scored in a 38 game league season too. I'm all for less exploitation at set pieces as that is another game ruiner.

I guess my only gripe is that there are actually significantly more injuries and i wouldn't mind it toned down a tad - but I guess, that's a personal preference of game enjoyment vs perceived realism. 

But, do understand the frustration when your tactics that worked previously no longer work especially when in theory they should do. Just have to try and adapt to suit the style the ME is more receptive towards. That in itself is annoying but, it's not an easy job to create a perfect engine - but I'll always hope that many tactical styles in the future can be feasible to use successfully.

I think I may well be at the opposite end to where you are. For me the last version was great. And that’s gonna come down to personal tastes. I think it’s annoyed me most that it’s happened during a season, so I don’t have a preseason to try and fix anything. 
And with the amount of time I’ve put into this save, I’m loathe to start again.

[TEday36]

21 hours ago, gunner86 said:

Like the title says, the winter update for me has taken a tactic that has brought me relative success to one that just does not work.

My midfield, previously the most effective area of the team, is now pointless. They wait to be tackled, they pass off target, they press with the intensity off a wet sock - stopping 2 metres away from any opposition. And the AI with its new combinations and more effective countering just cuts through or around me. 
Nothing I try works, I force the opposition inside, they pass their way through, I show them outside, they score from crosses.

it’s completely ruined my save, and I feel maybe FM23 for me. It feels like it’s gone from one of the very best MEs to one of the very worst.

Or is it just me?

I feel the same way.. been playing this game since 2005 and this update just ruined it.. my GK would make at least one blunder per game, my defence is useless, went from being the best defence in the league to conceding 14 goals in 4 matches.. I'm a defensive-minded player and this ruins it for me. And just like you, I spent sooo much time trying to find the perfect tactic for me, this one worked like a charm and now poof, it's gone. Ruined it.

[kiingallen]

I was mix feeling about it, but now that I’m starting to nice flaws, it’s bothering me even more than before. There as positives: more “chaos” unpredictability, more interceptions, quicker thinking/reactions, players making space for themselves, wider passing range, attributes more visible. However what I’m struggling with is defensive positioning from ALL players, shape and pressing is killing me. Pressing trap just doesn’t work in my opinion. 
 

only way I can keep a clean sheet is if a team doesn’t commit players forward. 

it’s disheartening at this moment in time. 

[Daniel Evensen]

This exact same complaint comes up with every single new version of Football Manager and every single match engine update.

The threads usually devolve into some sort of blanket criticism of how the game is irretrievably broken, and how Sports Interactive are simply money hungry scoundrels who don't care at all about the quality of their flagship product.

Then it all calms down once the tactic creators figure out what is going on, and we have relative peace and calm before the next round begins.  It's the circle of life on these boards.

There's a really good chance that it's actually not your tactic.  What personalities do your players have?  Are they fatigued?  Are you playing against stronger opposition?  Has morale taken a hit recently?  Are their underlying happiness issues that you're ignoring?

[gunner86]

16 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

This exact same complaint comes up with every single new version of Football Manager and every single match engine update.

The threads usually devolve into some sort of blanket criticism of how the game is irretrievably broken, and how Sports Interactive are simply money hungry scoundrels who don't care at all about the quality of their flagship product.

Yeah, 100% agree. But I, for one was praising the match engine at release this time round. I was also a fan of FM22’s ME where I had 0 issues with my tactic when updates rolled out (at least nothing that couldn’t be quickly fixed).

I’ve also been around long enough to have seen these threads myself, but the mere fact it looked like no one else had made one was the reason that I started one, because I was a little surprised that I was the only one with these issues.

For what it’s worth, because I primarily used a 4-2-3-1 on 22, this had to be a whole new tactic because 23 uses the 2 MCs as DMs and I couldn’t replicate the style of play I wanted like that. I could make something usable, something that would win games, but it wasn’t visually right, and fundamentally, because I wanted to use an IWB, that role doesn’t perform in the same way when you have 2 players in the DM strata because the space isn’t available for them to move into.

17 hours ago, Daniel Evensen said:

There's a really good chance that it's actually not your tactic.  What personalities do your players have?  Are they fatigued?  Are you playing against stronger opposition?  Has morale taken a hit recently?  Are their underlying happiness issues that you're ignoring?

I don’t think it is this to be honest. My main save now is with Bournemouth, where admittedly, yes, I had been overachieving, but there is such a big contrast between how the team was playing last week to how they play now. It’s not even that I’m losing games that previously I was winning, the whole way the game plays out has changed, pass completion has dropped, I’m losing out on possession, I’m creating less chances, and the way my team does attack when it gets the ball forward is completely different. This is also true when I load up my Arsenal save where the quality of players is vastly better.

Now, it may be that my tactic should never have worked as well as it did and that I’ve stumbled across some sort of exploit. Or it’s that the latest ME changes have done something that makes it far less effective. And looking at the change list, they list the AI having new midfield pairings to choose from and more effective use of players in counters. So it could be that my role and duty combos are now out powered by these new pairings, or that I’m now more vulnerable to counters, or both, or something else. But it sure feels tactical more than anything else.

[XaW]

For what it's worth, I really like the new version. I feel I mostly win when I deserve it and lose when I deserve it, and my changes are shown to me by the game.

This is my current results playing a team trying to avoid relegation. I had to change a defender towards the end of the bad run there, but the one I had was making a lot of stupid mistakes leading to goals. I wondered why, then I noticed what had been screaming at me...

Ahh, that's why he got caught out all the time...

[Oliver Roland]

 5 straight red cards for two footed challenges since update  

[kiingallen]

I’m also currently struggling to implement my style. And I’m almost certain is a ME flaw at this point. I would love to find out, if anyone is noticing wide players staying out wide when defending, rather than tucking in. 
now I understand this tactic is of preference, but it’s literally uncontrollable, at least from what I can see. 
pressing trap does not work, and thus nor does defensive width. 

[Domoboy23]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

For what it's worth, I really like the new version. I feel I mostly win when I deserve it and lose when I deserve it, and my changes are shown to me by the game.

This is my current results playing a team trying to avoid relegation. I had to change a defender towards the end of the bad run there, but the one I had was making a lot of stupid mistakes leading to goals. I wondered why, then I noticed what had been screaming at me...

Ahh, that's why he got caught out all the time...

I had a CB who I noticed on my first game was getting bullied, and I mean absolutely tormented by the opposition striker. I checked his stats and he'd won 0 of his challenges in the air.  Clicked on him... 6 jumping reach

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Domoboy23 said:

I had a CB who I noticed on my first game was getting bullied, and I mean absolutely tormented by the opposition striker. I checked his stats and he'd won 0 of his challenges in the air.  Clicked on him... 6 jumping reach

Surprisingly often the issue is blatantly obvious, but we are all just blind!

Quite obvious when you finally spot it though. Also why I try to ask people to spot why they are conceding chances when they struggle. The tactic might be perfect, but if you use the wrong player type in a few key spots, you are bound to fail.

[Domoboy23]

27 minutes ago, XaW said:

Surprisingly often the issue is blatantly obvious, but we are all just blind!

Quite obvious when you finally spot it though. Also why I try to ask people to spot why they are conceding chances when they struggle. The tactic might be perfect, but if you use the wrong player type in a few key spots, you are bound to fail.

I think that's one of my favourite things about the current ME, especially since the update.

It's not only easy to see the difference in quality between teams in the same league, and then when managing in leagues of different quality. But it's very easy and apparent to see the difference in quality in players throughout your own side as well as any glaring weaknesses and strengths from watching an actual match itself. It's great.

[zachalxnder]

If you want to see really frustrating in the match engine, try starting a save with a high rep team/low rep manager. Players will not play for you at all. But it is always a glaring difference when you gain their respect and they start following your instructions on the pitch. 

[Hux88]

On 04/03/2023 at 21:39, gunner86 said:

Like the title says, the winter update for me has taken a tactic that has brought me relative success to one that just does not work.

My midfield, previously the most effective area of the team, is now pointless. They wait to be tackled, they pass off target, they press with the intensity off a wet sock - stopping 2 metres away from any opposition. And the AI with its new combinations and more effective countering just cuts through or around me. 
Nothing I try works, I force the opposition inside, they pass their way through, I show them outside, they score from crosses.

it’s completely ruined my save, and I feel maybe FM23 for me. It feels like it’s gone from one of the very best MEs to one of the very worst.

Or is it just me?

I dont think its the worst match engine and I do think there have been some good improvements, but i do share your frustration. Since the update, my Reading team have completely fallen apart. We haven't scored in four straight games, after a really solid start to life in the PL. Now, I know that this could all be due to the AI taking us more seriously, playing more cautiously etc. However, the way my team plays now is completely different post patch. Everything feels disjointed and we don't even look like creating anything. It's a very different experience now.

I think its perfectly valid to feel disappointed when something out of your control affects something you have spent a lot of time cultivating. It's not always easy to start again tactically. I personally am already quite fatigued and am going to use the opportunity to take a break. Maybe fresh eyes will be able to see where I can improve in a few months.

Fingers crossed you can find a solution to your tactic soon. 

[XaW]

4 minutes ago, Hux88 said:

I dont think its the worst match engine and I do think there have been some good improvements, but i do share your frustration. Since the update, my Reading team have completely fallen apart. We haven't scored in four straight games, after a really solid start to life in the PL. Now, I know that this could all be due to the AI taking us more seriously, playing more cautiously etc. However, the way my team plays now is completely different post patch. Everything feels disjointed and we don't even look like creating anything. It's a very different experience now.

I think its perfectly valid to feel disappointed when something out of your control affects something you have spent a lot of time cultivating. It's not always easy to start again tactically. I personally am already quite fatigued and am going to use the opportunity to take a break. Maybe fresh eyes will be able to see where I can improve in a few months.

Fingers crossed you can find a solution to your tactic soon. 

As a general comment, and I will put emphasis on this since I don't know your tactical setup, so I could be wrong, but I've found out that most tactics that "break" from updates are, willingly or unintentionally, exploiting something in the game. I say this as someone who is playing with just about the same tactic as I did in FM17 with just minor changes. Sure, sometimes it's become a bit better or worse, but it's always looked the same in the matches, and the positives and negatives have always been very close.

I can't say for certain this is the reason things have happened, but either that or non-ME factors such as you mention is most likely I think. Before I created that tactic I often downloaded something from around the net and changed it to fit my team, but it always got ruined from updates. When I created my current one I tried to think "football first" and not what I thought worked in the game and just went from there. So I think tactics that mainly focus on footballing concepts don't break from updates, but those who don't might. With the exception of actual bugs in the match engine, of course!

This is just my opinion though, and I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Just putting it out there.

[priority76]

4 hours ago, Oliver Roland said:

 5 straight red cards for two footed challenges since update  

Yes similar for me.  Extremely frustrating.  Don't have get stuck in or tackle harder on, no need for it.  I wish my players would stop with the moronic tackles.

[Mcfc1894]

On 04/03/2023 at 21:39, gunner86 said:

Like the title says, the winter update for me has taken a tactic that has brought me relative success to one that just does not work.

My midfield, previously the most effective area of the team, is now pointless. They wait to be tackled, they pass off target, they press with the intensity off a wet sock - stopping 2 metres away from any opposition. And the AI with its new combinations and more effective countering just cuts through or around me. 
Nothing I try works, I force the opposition inside, they pass their way through, I show them outside, they score from crosses.

it’s completely ruined my save, and I feel maybe FM23 for me. It feels like it’s gone from one of the very best MEs to one of the very worst.

Or is it just me?

ME before this was so predictable and boring feel now it always keeps you guessing what makes the game more enjoyable yes also frustrating at times and of course it isn't perfect but I'm enjoying fm more than ever right now 

[Jonthedon26]

14 hours ago, Hux88 said:

I dont think its the worst match engine and I do think there have been some good improvements, but i do share your frustration. Since the update, my Reading team have completely fallen apart. We haven't scored in four straight games, after a really solid start to life in the PL. Now, I know that this could all be due to the AI taking us more seriously, playing more cautiously etc. However, the way my team plays now is completely different post patch. Everything feels disjointed and we don't even look like creating anything. It's a very different experience now.

I think its perfectly valid to feel disappointed when something out of your control affects something you have spent a lot of time cultivating. It's not always easy to start again tactically. I personally am already quite fatigued and am going to use the opportunity to take a break. Maybe fresh eyes will be able to see where I can improve in a few months.

Fingers crossed you can find a solution to your tactic soon. 

I second this. I got promoted with Birmingham City in my 2nd season, finishing as the leagues top scorers and creating loads of chances. I started the PL pretty well, scored 3 against Arsenal, 2 against United and went unbeaten in my first 6 games. Since the update my team literally has like 4 shots per game and has blanked in 3 of my last 4 games. I am tinkering with my tactic to try and fix it, but I play an extremely basic 442 get it out wide and cross it and there isn't really much you can tinker with that and I don't want to rip up my style and start again. I agree it is very frustrating when you find a tactic that works for your team/players then it seems to go to pot post update, but going to keep persisting as I have signed some really good younger players that I am looking forward to seeing develop. 

[Rucious]

Can you believe it's working? 

 

[XaW]

1.79 xG from 27 shots... wow that's some poor chance creation! Unlucky with the disallowed goals though...

[kiingallen]

1 hour ago, Rucious said:

Can you believe it's working? 

 

Experienced this last night. I had to go off to do something else..

[Kingstontom88]

Have bought the demo to see if the ME has indeed become bearable - seems good to me, not perfect - some little annoying aspects but the fact the play is so much less predictable (or chaotic, as some would say) it's good to have the uncertainty of where the chance will fall.

I stopped playing FM22 due to the ME, this seems better already to me.

[Daniel Evensen]

We were undefeated before the new update came around.

We're still undefeated.

My guess, though, is that my squad is a bit stronger than the average Chinese third tier squad. 

[Konfuchie]

On 04/03/2023 at 22:39, gunner86 said:

My midfield, previously the most effective area of the team, is now pointless. They wait to be tackled, they pass off target, they press with the intensity off a wet sock - stopping 2 metres away from any opposition.

My midfield is as effective as ever. Maybe slightly less of through balls but I don't have large enough sample to claim that, since I mostly played less creative midfielders. They press, track back and win balls regularly.

[Mardy]

On 06/03/2023 at 15:57, Oliver Roland said:

 5 straight red cards for two footed challenges since update  

Yep, don’t have tackle hard or get stuck in on either. Really annoying 

[limey150781]

I probably slightly prefer to old engine but only because (and I have no idea if this is an issue that has been mentioned) the amount of times the woodwork is hit is crazy. Literally 2-5 every game. I find it really odd. 

[Daniel Evensen]

Yeah, I've run into the exact same issue with hitting the woodwork.  I think I'm averaging 3 times a game since the update.

[Oliver Roland]

Lewandowski is missing a lot of penalties, wonder why is that...could it be because we hardly train them? In first season he scored 5 from 8, in second 3 from 6, and in present third he missed 1 from 1...

[Dreambuilder]

Theres like two offside goal every match.

And almost zero penalties.

And alot of woodwork hits yes.

And I dont feel going more defensive works after conceding first goal. Then they just score 2-0 and 3-0.

Also my best penalty taker has missed like 4 out of 6 penalties :S

Loosing many games despite leading both possession and shots on goal by far. 

I'm into the third season of my save and I'm still waiting to be happy.

Hardest version so far I say for the first time ever.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Dreambuilder

[eXistenZ]

2 hours ago, Oliver Roland said:

Lewandowski is missing a lot of penalties, wonder why is that...could it be because we hardly train them? In first season he scored 5 from 8, in second 3 from 6, and in present third he missed 1 from 1...

penalties are a pure lottery i feel. missed all 6 of them with different takes in my very first savegame (so "old" ME). And in FM21 i had Vlahovic (composure + penalties 16) miss the majority as well.

 

Defo have seen an increase in disallowed goals for offside though since the update

[Dreambuilder]

On 07/03/2023 at 14:34, XaW said:

1.79 xG from 27 shots... wow that's some poor chance creation! Unlucky with the disallowed goals though...

It's flawed. There are like 2-3 disallowed goals every game

[XaW]

39 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

It's flawed. There are like 2-3 disallowed goals every game

No there is not. I've played a few seasons on the new ME, and I've yet to see more than 1 in any match.

Just for you, I went through my last season and look at all of the ~40 matches my team played. There was a total of 5 disallowed goals in all those matches, and I counted for BOTH my team and the opponent. That's about 1 disallowed goal in every 8 matches it happened last season.

If you have a save showing 2-3 disallowed goals every match, then please report it as a bug and upload it, as I'm certain SI would want to look at it! Heck, I'd love to see it myself, upload it somewhere and let me take a look.

[Dreambuilder]

56 minutes ago, XaW said:

No there is not. I've played a few seasons on the new ME, and I've yet to see more than 1 in any match.

Just for you, I went through my last season and look at all of the ~40 matches my team played. There was a total of 5 disallowed goals in all those matches, and I counted for BOTH my team and the opponent. That's about 1 disallowed goal in every 8 matches it happened last season.

If you have a save showing 2-3 disallowed goals every match, then please report it as a bug and upload it, as I'm certain SI would want to look at it! Heck, I'd love to see it myself, upload it somewhere and let me take a look.

Yes you are right. Had a really bad streak. It's somewhat better now. I need better players too.

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

Yes you are right. Had a really bad streak. It's somewhat better now. I need better players too.

Yeah, it can happen at times. Everyone gets unlucky every now and again, it's the interesting thing with football, you can do everything perfect and still lose, or everything wrong as still win. But doing the right thing will more often work than not!  

[ExeChris]

Enjoying the update mostly, the football I'm seeing is better but I've moved clubs and gone up a division so the players are better quality.  Some of the goals and general play I'm seeing are superb.
Some points I've noticed:

More injuries for sure.  A lot of training injuries including serious ones of 1 month out plus.

Players get very tired during the games, but probably no more so than before.

Maybe not more offside goals than before but I've noticed strikers often run yards offside and so they look awful when they 'score' from being so offside.  There are sometimes a lot of disallowed goals but often the whistle has long gone before a 'goal' is scored so to me that's not a problem.

I've not really noticed a lot more woodwork being struck, but if it is it's flicking the top of the bar or outside of the post. 

I'll be polite and say the goalkeepers are unpredictable.

The UI is still clunky, set pieces I've given up getting people to stay where I want them to go,  and there are odd things during games like a header from a corner is described as 'a fine move' but I am enjoying it.  Maybe that'll change if I lose 5 in a row but for now things are good.

 

[sven78]

It has not improved it. Defending is rotten, despite playing a pressing style, defenders literally just stand passive as people run past them and the long punt from the keeper is just mind blowing.....defenders either never win a header or when they are in 30 yds of space with players either side, they just head it back into no mans land and opposition counter on you.

The shots/goals thing will never be fixed but its something that I just accept now....don't get bothered by it as its pointless. There are games in FM you simply will not win, I just move on now. Pointless dwelling on one game, tactic tweaks, obvious changes just don't have an effect in certain games. I doth my cap to players I see and read who are getting players into the 60+ goals a season, just don't see how its possible.

[jcafcwbb]

Cut and pasted my reply from another thread. Not too sure if that is frowned upon but I know different people read different threads.....

I think this match engine over-reacts to tactical tweaks.

I'll give you an example. As the newly promoted AFC Wimbledon I am expecting a more difficult time. After five matches I had 6 points. I was away at Plymouth who were third and I was fifteenth. They were playing a vertical tiki-taka so I thought I would try making them play outside, I would regroup, and hold shape. Well it backfired and I was 4-0 down after 20 minutes. 

I made changes and turned off making them play outside and added the counter press. By half time it was 4-2 and I had another goal disallowed. By full time it was 4-4 and I almost won the match but a header hit the inside of the post. So just two small tweaks turned an absolute drubbing into an almost win.

The next game I was rubbish in the first half and went in 1-0 down. Changed a neutral press /regroup into the counterpress and was 2-1 up after five minutes of the second half. Conceded from a corner against the run of play but went 3-2 up in the 88th minute. So I thought I will see this out and changed my wing-backs to  defensive full-backs. Cue, four highlights of them attacking where they eventually scored with a ball over the top to the wide striker with my full back out of position in the 93rd minute.

Whilst bad tactics can cost you the win in L1 and L2 the players are not good enough for that kind of swing in performance especially in the Plymouth match. 

[Dreambuilder]

I also complained in frustration earlier in this thread. The bad performance forced me to google som guides for team instructions. I stripped down my 4-2-3-1 to use only team instructions that I was sure of my team could execute after learning all about the team instructions. Also got some better players. Now I have 10 wins in a row and counting! 

 

It turns out that for your tactics, less is more, depending what instructions your players have skills enough to execute. So if you struggle, I addvise you to try once with your formation almost empty of instructions. Perhaps add only press and counter. See how it goes! It got better results immediately.

Good guides:

(1) GUIDE TO ALL TEAM INSTRUCTIONS : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) What are some common tactical traps beginners should avoid? : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) Guide to Team Instructions : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

[FM21] A Complete Guide to Quick Transitions and Counter Attacking Football - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

 

Basic principles of defending (an unofficial guide for tactical beginners) - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

[XaW]

17 minutes ago, Dreambuilder said:

I also complained in frustration earlier in this thread. The bad performance forced me to google som guides for team instructions. I stripped down my 4-2-3-1 to use only team instructions that I was sure of my team could execute after learning all about the team instructions. Also got some better players. Now I have 10 wins in a row and counting! 

 

It turns out that for your tactics, less is more, depending what instructions your players have skills enough to execute. So if you struggle, I addvise you to try once with your formation almost empty of instructions. Perhaps add only press and counter. See how it goes! It got better results immediately.

Good guides:

(1) GUIDE TO ALL TEAM INSTRUCTIONS : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) What are some common tactical traps beginners should avoid? : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) Guide to Team Instructions : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

[FM21] A Complete Guide to Quick Transitions and Counter Attacking Football - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

 

Basic principles of defending (an unofficial guide for tactical beginners) - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

Good on you for looking into this, and yes, less is often more, especially if you don't understand what each instruction does and how it works along the other ones. I always suggest to find the framework you want to create and try it out with next to no instructions. And when you see how it works, you slowly add the instructions you think would change into what you'd like to see happen. Sometimes you are right, sometimes it doesn't work, but either way you've learned. My tactic has 6 total instructions and 1 individual (I want one player to stay wider), that's it.

[Dreambuilder]

11 minutes ago, XaW said:

Good on you for looking into this, and yes, less is often more, especially if you don't understand what each instruction does and how it works along the other ones. I always suggest to find the framework you want to create and try it out with next to no instructions. And when you see how it works, you slowly add the instructions you think would change into what you'd like to see happen. Sometimes you are right, sometimes it doesn't work, but either way you've learned. My tactic has 6 total instructions and 1 individual (I want one player to stay wider), that's it.

Good to hear! My tactic is 5 instructions + sliders for passing, tempo, LOD and LOE +1 step  

 

Interesting about individual instructions. I set personal instructions for all players to minimize their weaknesses. If someone is crap at crossings I tell him to do that less. Centerbacks etc always crap at shooting and dribble so I tell them to shoot and dribble less etc ;P Not sure if personal instructions has a downside really

Edited March 15, 2023 by Dreambuilder

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Dreambuilder said:

Good to hear! My tactic is 5 instructions + sliders for passing, tempo, LOD and LOE +1 step  

Interesting about individual instructions. I set personal instructions for all players to minimize their weaknesses. If someone is crap at crossings I tell him to do that less. Centerbacks etc always crap at shooting and dribble so I tell them to shoot and dribble less etc ;P Not sure if that has a downside?

It depends, some instructions are less impactful than other, and it also ties into their role and the team instructions. Telling players not to do something they will rarely do anyway has a low impact, but asking a full back to cross less you might see him turn back and recycle the ball more instead of crossing for unmarked players in the box. Now, he might not be able to reach them often, but he might sometimes. So it's something you need to decide based on what you are seeing and what you want. If you have a tall striker with excellent heading moping around in the box doing nothing while you wide players pass the ball around, I'm not sure I'd keep that!  

Also, some instructions can impact in a severe way if the role and TIs are linked. So a high team press as well as individual press can make a player get dragged out of position a lot, and thus open up space for the opponent to exploit. And if you also have opponent instructions to close a player down, it can create a mess. So it's a dual edged sword if you make the wrong call at times. Everything is linked in that way. And it could also be good or bad a match by match basis at times.

[Daniel Evensen]

2 hours ago, Dreambuilder said:

I also complained in frustration earlier in this thread. The bad performance forced me to google som guides for team instructions. I stripped down my 4-2-3-1 to use only team instructions that I was sure of my team could execute after learning all about the team instructions. Also got some better players. Now I have 10 wins in a row and counting! 

 

It turns out that for your tactics, less is more, depending what instructions your players have skills enough to execute. So if you struggle, I addvise you to try once with your formation almost empty of instructions. Perhaps add only press and counter. See how it goes! It got better results immediately.

Good guides:

(1) GUIDE TO ALL TEAM INSTRUCTIONS : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) What are some common tactical traps beginners should avoid? : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

(1) Guide to Team Instructions : footballmanagergames (reddit.com)

 

[FM21] A Complete Guide to Quick Transitions and Counter Attacking Football - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

 

Basic principles of defending (an unofficial guide for tactical beginners) - Tactics, Training & Strategies Discussion - Sports Interactive Community (sigames.com)

These are excellent.  Thank you!