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FM23: The Secrets of Successful Goalscoring


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This is a really great post. Loads of really useful insights, particularly regarding how the defenders move the ball forwards. That’s one of the areas I’m looking to improve in my use of the 3 CB system.

Are you able to talk through any team or player instructions you’ve used to aid your tactic? I often find that the hardest part of building and effective tactic so would be interested to see what you’ve done with yours. Are you still using the high line and low block that you implemented on your Ibis thread?

Edited by OrientTillIDie
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I already read this on your site. And it was brillant. I'm a little disappointed because i'm still on fm 22 and the stats are not the same. But it's brillant.

By the way, i played with your possession stuff, and it work on fm 22. I just need to have better player, i think. But great work.

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2 hours ago, OrientTillIDie said:

This is a really great post. Loads of really useful insights, particularly regarding how the defenders move the ball forwards. That’s one of the areas I’m looking to improve in my use of the 3 CB system.

Are you able to talk through any team or player instructions you’ve used to aid your tactic? I often find that the hardest part of building and effective tactic so would be interested to see what you’ve done with yours. Are you still using the high line and low block that you implemented on your Ibis thread?

All the info is in that thread about player instructions, Team instructions etc. The low block post, if you read it, it shows I flipped the style and went from low block to a high possession game instead within the same post :)

It’s really indepth, I wrote 4 articles each one more than 7k words all about the formation. Along with analysis about the tactic too and how to spot issues before the happen and how to fix them. 
That’s what the Íbis thread is about.

1 hour ago, coach vahid said:

I already read this on your site. And it was brillant. I'm a little disappointed because i'm still on fm 22 and the stats are not the same. But it's brillant.

By the way, i played with your possession stuff, and it work on fm 22. I just need to have better player, i think. But great work.

Thanks mate.

1 hour ago, warlock said:

Brilliant post :applause:

Cheers :)

18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I reckon someone should do an experiment using a fullback as a striker….😉

Great post mate 👍.

Ha I was reading that post recently, was looking through some old stuff to see if I could put a spin on it and update it 😂

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  • 2 weeks later...

Read it all in Ibis Thread and I’m getting more and more comfortable, especially the tweaks during a match are really important adjustments and I’m in the promotion race now. Last time you congrats for 7th place @Cleon (remember?) it’s still the same season and now I’m 2 points behind 3rd. I‘m really happy. 

Meris Skenderovic is my goalgetter with 22 goals it’s all working out amazing

Wonderful! We secured the play off spot with the last match. Incredible! 

Edited by HanziZoloman
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One of the guys here asked how I figured @Cleon tactic out. I had some real difficulties with that because I am just a part time player and not a football genius. I tried to describe the steps I took to get closer to Cleon’s way of playing and will post it here as well as it might be useful to others:

Sure, first I took his whole tactic, the possession based with counter-press and high-block, with that it was easy to receive promotion from 3rd division. I didn’t need to adopt to anything because in the end results were mostly in my favour.
After promotion things got a lot harder. 
teams were more difficult to counter-press, cleon described it with his men „running around like chicken“, that’s what I was seeing. Then it was time to switch off counter-press and play in a high or midblock, usually my team could do that and maintain high possession. I always try to dominate possession.
Next there were balls over the top and crosses which caused my team a lot of trouble. I dig into Cleon‘s text and answers and found how he emphasised to adopt with Defense dropping off or stepping up and I tried to figure out which is it that I need in this particular game and tried it. With crosses the same, funnel the opposition out or in was the question. Are they trying to attack via the flanks or via central long balls and I did the opposite, flanks- funnel them inside, long balls - funnel them outside. 
next was attack, usually I was afraid to change anything to avoid mistakes, but digging into Cleon’s I found that he is going for a higher tempo when he wants to irritate and confuse a solid Defense. I tried it, now I am more then ever adopting to the situation on the pitch and it’s good.

if someone is having a bad game, missing chances, sloppy passes I take him off, even in first half. Often the fresh man uses his chance and makes an impact.

While doing all this I tried to figure out who is the best for a specific role with the stats the players were producing and tried to ignore the attributes. 
I can’t blind the attributes because I don’t know how (but would like to), I just simply ignore them (except for the wonderful gains in youth development). My team is the same team like 3rd division and is now in play offs to 1st division. I have no money for players and rely on my youth. I hope the great performances will result in some good offers for my players.

 

thats all what’s football about: 

Play offs against the rival, got behind and in 2nd half my striker Meris Skenderovic puts in four into the net and we got the promotion. It’s the best! That’s why we’re playing this game. Amazing! Four goals! Imagine! And two seasons from 3rd to 1st with 1860 Munich.

great! Not possible for me without this great stuff here in this forum. Thx all

Edited by HanziZoloman
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On 03/03/2023 at 07:10, HanziZoloman said:

One of the guys here asked how I figured @Cleon tactic out. I had some real difficulties with that because I am just a part time player and not a football genius. I tried to describe the steps I took to get closer to Cleon’s way of playing and will post it here as well as it might be useful to others:

Sure, first I took his whole tactic, the possession based with counter-press and high-block, with that it was easy to receive promotion from 3rd division. I didn’t need to adopt to anything because in the end results were mostly in my favour.
After promotion things got a lot harder. 
teams were more difficult to counter-press, cleon described it with his men „running around like chicken“, that’s what I was seeing. Then it was time to switch off counter-press and play in a high or midblock, usually my team could do that and maintain high possession. I always try to dominate possession.
Next there were balls over the top and crosses which caused my team a lot of trouble. I dig into Cleon‘s text and answers and found how he emphasised to adopt with Defense dropping off or stepping up and I tried to figure out which is it that I need in this particular game and tried it. With crosses the same, funnel the opposition out or in was the question. Are they trying to attack via the flanks or via central long balls and I did the opposite, flanks- funnel them inside, long balls - funnel them outside. 
next was attack, usually I was afraid to change anything to avoid mistakes, but digging into Cleon’s I found that he is going for a higher tempo when he wants to irritate and confuse a solid Defense. I tried it, now I am more then ever adopting to the situation on the pitch and it’s good.

if someone is having a bad game, missing chances, sloppy passes I take him off, even in first half. Often the fresh man uses his chance and makes an impact.

While doing all this I tried to figure out who is the best for a specific role with the stats the players were producing and tried to ignore the attributes. 
I can’t blind the attributes because I don’t know how (but would like to), I just simply ignore them (except for the wonderful gains in youth development). My team is the same team like 3rd division and is now in play offs to 1st division. I have no money for players and rely on my youth. I hope the great performances will result in some good offers for my players.

 

thats all what’s football about: 

Play offs against the rival, got behind and in 2nd half my striker Meris Skenderovic puts in four into the net and we got the promotion. It’s the best! That’s why we’re playing this game. Amazing! Four goals! Imagine! And two seasons from 3rd to 1st with 1860 Munich.

great! Not possible for me without this great stuff here in this forum. Thx all

This is great and you deserve a lot of credit for taking the advice from what I wrote and making it work for you. At the end of the day that's what my writings are for. For people to take the workings and implement it in their own saves and adapt it to fit them. Well done mate :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Cleon that’s the knighthood I was hoping for! Thx man. I kneel down and bow my head. 

Man! Now it’s time for 1st division soccer. I don’t know if my men are ready but we got some new prospects from the academy and they are all looking just great (I simply ignore the bad attributes and knowing them just makes it more adventurous). One of them just has 20 Bravery and 19 Teamwork and 18 Work Rate the rest is 5 and he will start (of course) because he fits. My squad is like 40 players because I promoted every over 18 year old player and did so last season as well. Every one of them could make a difference because attributes doesn’t matter anymore. Ah it’s so great, I hope we‘ll survive. 
Edit: it’s not working out well. We get slammed in every away game. 
@Cleon how did you keep possession up when climbing the leagues? It’s still the 5221 tactical approach. 

Edited by HanziZoloman
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19 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

@Cleon that’s the knighthood I was hoping for! Thx man. I kneel down and bow my head. 

Man! Now it’s time for 1st division soccer. I don’t know if my men are ready but we got some new prospects from the academy and they are all looking just great (I simply ignore the bad attributes and knowing them just makes it more adventurous). One of them just has 20 Bravery and 19 Teamwork and 18 Work Rate the rest is 5 and he will start (of course) because he fits. My squad is like 40 players because I promoted every over 18 year old player and did so last season as well. Every one of them could make a difference because attributes doesn’t matter anymore. Ah it’s so great, I hope we‘ll survive. 
Edit: it’s not working out well. We get slammed in every away game. 
@Cleon how did you keep possession up when climbing the leagues? It’s still the 5221 tactical approach. 

My possession numbers kept around the same. 

Perhaps if you're struggling, maybe look at a slightly modified approach until you can strengthen/develop players more suited.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb Cleon:

My possession numbers kept around the same. 

Perhaps if you're struggling, maybe look at a slightly modified approach until you can strengthen/develop players more suited.

But how, it’s very difficult. We lost 7 games straight and it’s very difficult, my striker up front is lost. I managed to bring possession numbers up to 50-60% but still the opponents just run at my players and catch the ball and score a goal. 
I need some help to stay up and develop the players I need because we don’t have the money to buy them. My team is really hard working. 
at the moment I switched the SVa into SVs and play a midblock witch works out but the problem is getting the ball up and on the goal.

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Okay so you know what the issue is, getting the ball up to the striker. But do you know why the striker isn't getting the service he needs? When you look at the stats from the game or pause it and look around and build up phases, what exactly is the problem?

If the opposition is just running at you and getting the ball from you no matter what, then don't focus on team instructions that dwell on the ball. That way you might be able to get it forward quick enough. An example of what playing out for the back can do for example;

5-2-2-1-example-1-1024x396.png

The goalkeeper had the ball which meant the wide centreback and ball-playing defender dropped deeper and spread wide to give us passing options. The ball was played to the central centreback. But as soon as it’s played to him, you can see the opposition has already started to press us quite aggressively. 

They’re not going to give us much time on the ball at all, this is why I didn’t want us to play out from the back. As that would add an enormous amount of pressure on ourselves for no reason. I want the ball to move up the field quickly, to help the players beat the press. Asking them to pass it around more at the back or hold onto the ball for longer periods is risky in itself.

You increase the risk of the opposition forcing an error or giving the ball away cheaply.

5-2-2-1-example-2-1024x468.png

We see how space opens up when the wide centreback receives the ball. Now he can drive forward here if he wants or has multiple passing options. Either way, we’ve beaten the initial press and now the opposition is shifting their position across the pitch to deal with the player in possession on the left side of the pitch.

This is where wide centre-backs and ball-playing defenders excel. They can choose the safer passing options like the wingback or the attacking midfielder. But this isn’t why I’m using these roles, I want them to be riskier to open up the entire pitch with quick switches of play. What he does here is dwells on the ball for no more than a second or so.

Once the opposition has shifted over more, he hits a risky ball between the pressing forward and the advanced playmaker, to run onto. One simple pass and he’s taken out five opposition players in one move. Now we are on the front foot and a possible 2v1 scenario.

As we are the underdog in every game, we face this kind of press a lot. You need to be aware of these types of things when playing in the game, so you can adapt quickly. Had I not noticed the opposition playing this way early in the game, then I'd have still had the team instruction to play out of defence activated. And that could have cost us the game.

5-2-2-1-example-3-1024x485.png

We still commit numbers forward when we see there is a chance to attack. We also have plenty of support and passing options too or we can be really direct. Here we are direct and the wingback goes forward, crosses into the box to a free pressing forward, who heads the ball home to make it 1-0.

Or you can use the opposition scout reports and maybe take an advantage of the opposition that way too.

FM23: Data and Analysis Strengths and Weakness 

If we dig a little bit deeper into the scout report, we can see the strengths and weakness page;

Next-Opponent-3-1024x576.png

Personally speaking here, I don’t really use this page much but still wanted to highlight it and talk about ways you could possibly use it. The reason I don’t use it is I don’t think a lot of the information in the weaknesses is that helpful to me, especially as I’m attributeless. So I’m aware of my own players too.

From the strengths, we can see that they have a few relating to goalkeepers. Straight away we know this is a strength and just exactly how by the descriptions. So what we’ve learnt here is;

  • Aerial reach
  • Keepers like to catch the ball
  • They can organise their defence with a strong command of the area.

If we wanted to use this information to our advantage then we know any type of crosses into the box from open play or set pieces will likely fail or have to be very accurate to find success. Now, I play a possession-based brand of football and limit crosses. You can find more about the actual tactic I’m using here, rather than me posting about it here. As it was the last part of this series we did;

The 5-2-2-1: A Comprehensive Guide

So for me, crossing won’t be a big deal as we look to retain the ball and do passes to feet rather than play an aerial game. But if you did play a crossing game then you could find your usual play might not be an effective strategy. It’s something you’d either need to adapt for before the game or (this is what I’d do if it was me) keep an eye on during the game. This way you could see exactly how it was impacting you, if at all.

This is my preferred method of playing, adapting to the game based on the actual context of how the match is playing out. You could do it before the game starts but that’s a lot of guesswork and there’s nothing to say your players can’t be successful. But it is certainly something you need to be aware of and ready to adapt to if it does actually cause issues during the game.

In the weaknesses, we again also see a lot related to the goalkeepers.

  • Bad reflexes
  • Poor at one on ones
  • It suggests they have low handling

So the opposite of the strengths, which means we could take advantage of this by trying to isolate the goalkeepers and get them into one on one situations. We could perhaps try and get our attacking players into areas that will force the goalkeepers to dive across the goal or try to hold onto the ball.

Every set-up will be different how they could do this. But if we are talking about the 5-2-2-1 formation we use, then our two attacking midfielders and the striker will be vital here. Things we could attempt to do here would be;

  • Shoot on sight to take advantage of the bad handling
  • Make the attacking midfielders more aggressive with a role or duty change
  • Pass into space to encourage the attacking trio to run onto the ball, rather than having it passed to their feet.

All of the above would be good ways of trying to test the goalkeepers, reflexes, handling and possible one on ones. It also says the squad in general is poor at positioning, concentration, anticipation, work rate and much more as I scroll down the list. This can all tie into what we do above.

We could also maybe try and take advantage of this in other ways too.

  • Higher tempo
  • More direct passing
  • More attacking width

A higher tempo would see us moving the ball around faster and players being more hurried in their approach overall. This can unsettle the opposition and you can take advantage of any positional issues they have.

More direct passing will also do the same and could take advantage of bad positioning along with a lack of concentration. If the scout is saying they have low concentration then it’s obvious that they switch off and can’t stay focused for a full 90 minutes.

Attacking width can really stretch the player as it increases the positioning between your own players, meaning the opposition would have to account for this somehow. We know they lack concentration and general work rate too. So if we are asking the opposition to do more and faster with the other changes, then we have the potential to take advantage of all the weaknesses I’ve mentioned so far.

I’ll not list all the weaknesses as I’ve already mentioned I don’t use them and just wanted to give you a few brief examples of how we can use this to our own advantage. It’s also important to note there that if you do adapt and make changes to take advantage of their weaknesses then you will likely stray from your own tactical approach and style.

So just be wary of that when adapting to the opposition. If you adapt too much you lose your own identity so try and find the middle ground and correct balance for you.

Comparison

Now as I’m attributeless this page is useless for me as it doesn’t show anything. But in essence, it gives you the average of all your attributes compared to the opposition. Here you can see how you pit against them based on attributes. The general tab shows you things like average age, international caps and so on. So you don’t really get anything useful from this tab.

On the other tabs though you can see how your defence matches up to the opposition and so on. Then you can even compare physical, mental and technical attributes. This information can be very useful if you want to target certain areas of the pitch. While initially, it compares your defence vs the opposition's defence, for example, we can still match this up with other areas.

If we know the opposition's defence has a low average in this category and our attack has better jumping, speed, finishing, heading and so on. We could then perhaps try and target this area to take advantage of it. Things we could try are;

Speed advantage - We can ask players to try and get in behind the opposition more. You can do this with team or player instructions such as passing into space, crossing early or running at the defence more. All of this would allow the player to use his speed. When I’m talking about speed here though I’m purely talking about acceleration.

Pace would only be useful if it was a distance of 20 yards or similar, as this is a player's top speed. In shorter distances, he is hardly going to use this. So acceleration becomes more vital in these types of scenarios. As that is the player's ability to reach his pace from a still position. But to actually reach the top of his pace he’d require time and distance.

You can apply the above logic to other areas too. Or if you’re the team who is lacking in an area, you can try and reduce the impact. So if we reverse the roles above and you’re the one lacking the speed advantage then here is what you could do to try and reduce the possible weakness.

Defensive Line - This is your best friend when you lack speed. If you believe your players are mentally strong then playing with a high line when you lack speed shouldn’t be a major issue. As the players should be strong enough mentally to be in the correct positions and react better. But if they don’t then it’s likely going to be a massive issue. Mental attributes can offset any physical or technical attributes in my opinion. Mental attributes are essentially how intelligent the player is and intelligence outweighs everything for me.

If your defence is lacking in both speed and mental aspects then perhaps playing a more standard defensive line could be beneficial. As can perhaps use a sweeper keeper to help with the balls that are played over the top of the defence.

You can also still use a high defensive line even if they lack in all areas but perhaps take a more cautious approach and use the following setting;

Drop Off team instruction - This instruction is a defensive line modifier to how you want it to behave. So even if you are using a high line, you can still use this instruction. It then instructs the defensive players to be more cautious when someone is in a possibly dangerous situation. 

The players should drop deeper and be warier of danger. Let me show you a visual of how it should work in the game, to better explain the actions you should expect from the defenders.

Defensive-Line-1024x444.png

I use a high defensive line but in this scenario, we are slightly deeper than usual due to the shape of the opposition and how they set up. This impacts your own defensive line and can push it back. It’s worth noting that even with a high defensive line, it will look slightly different from game to game. So don’t expect high to always mean pushed up to the halfway line, lots of factors can alter the initial position.

So here we can see the defensive line we are holding. The opposition player, Souza is going to drive forward or pass the ball. This is where your defensive line setting kicks into action. If you don’t use the step-up or drop-off more instructions then the defensive line will just behave like usual.

But if you use the step-up instruction then in the image above, the players will be looking to step up at this point. As they know there is possible danger and you’ve instructed them to step up. So they’d look to reduce the space between the ball carrier/passer and play the attacking players offside.

With the step-up team instruction, you are possibly conceding space behind your defensive line to reduce the space in front of them between the ball and themselves.

If we were using the drop-off more instruction then they’ll be more cautious and if no one is pressing the ball immediately, then they’ll begin to drop deeper.  So in this type of scenario, you’d conceded space in front of the defence to reduce the space behind them.

This can be handy for cutting out those direct balls to the attackers or balls played over the top behind your defensive line. Rather than your defensive line remaining high and increasing the chance they’ll get turned and beat for pace, you can minimise the risk of this as they retreat backwards. Allowing you to stay tight and compact.

Jack Joyce who works on the match engine team for Football Manager, also posted about these settings. That post can be found here;

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/569916-step-up-more-drop-off-more-do-they-work/?do=findComment&comment=13808125

This is just one of the ways you can use this information and try and eliminate such issues. I’ll not write more about this page as I don’t have access to it but wanted to show you how you can use this information in your own save.

Before we move on to the team performance section of the article it’s also worth noting that the stats page of the team report can also be useful.

Stats-1024x576.png

Here we can get a quick snapshot of the basic stats and who is the best and worse at them. If you click on the little boxes it will take you to the team's overview page and will have filtered the stats to show you the entire metrics for the team in that particular thing.

You could use this page to find a possible weakness and try to exploit it. Or to identify a specific player, like the best passer, and check what position they play. If they’re a playmaker then you know that the likelihood is, the majority of the play goes through them. You could try and cut the supply off or mark the player tighter to try and limit how influential he could be.

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Thanks man! I‘ll dig into it and I‘m sure it will be of help

of course I’d already read it but fishing out the part for me to read is what helps the most. 

@Cleon Now watched some time and noticed that this kind of play you described does not happen. Usually my central defender gets the ball is being pressed like described, plays the ball to the BPD, opponents shift in pressing, he just slams the ball up front, my striker doesn’t have a chance against two or three defenders. 

sometimes if we manage to get past the pressing, the BPD or WCB plays the ball back inside towards the DMs who then tries to build up play with the APs which is working better and play is developing through the middle and resulting in a shot from outside the box. 

My WBs and WBa are usually bad rated and aren’t much more than passing outlets. It’s very difficult when opponents funnel my team outside, by then the ball is lost with my WB dribbling down the line.

I noticed if we try to soak the pressure in a mid block we are getting slammed and we play better with a high press but then are usually punished by a through ball and a fast striker.

Chances are rarely because we usually create chance by hoofing the ball up front or a through ball by APs towards the striker which happens around one time during match (it happens more often but usually working out one time)

My nightmare are Teams like Freiburg and Köln who defend in a mid block and hit me on a counter with fast strikers. I lose like 5:1 and 6:2 against them.

Edited by HanziZoloman
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  • 3 weeks later...

Bild_2023-04-06_211309336.thumb.png.8595495f32c8b2cd5c8f81bb50706913.png

here is the leading goalscorer in german 2nd division after 10 matches with 10 goals. finishing 7 / otb 10 (just last week it was 9). He plays as a shadow striker and is in the right spot at the right time. everything else is teamwork.

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