What are "Other" expenses, and why are mine so high?

[Weston]

Why would I suddenly have to pay over a million in "advertising, supplies, and other general expenses"? I got promoted, but the league switched over on Dec 15, and these expenses appear in Feb. I can't think of what this would be, why it happened, or how to avoid it in the future...

[Andros]

interesting question.  a thread on this a few years ago: 

 

It didn't come up with anything concrete but a suggestion of friendly match expenses was put up.  I couldn't find anything else in my searches.

 

The Manual doesn't help much.

 

 

 

[alian62]

Traveling 

[vara]

2 minutes ago, alian62 said:

Traveling 

Travel Costs are there individually.

I've always wondered what makes up the 'other' category, specifically.

[phnompenhandy]

One I recently discovered is the fees involved in setting up a friendly. I now arrange away pre-season friendlies with fees attached and check after the game how much profit we made - it's in the income/other figure.

[Weston]

My thought was maybe trials, as I took on a lot of players for a while, but the timeline doesn't match up, and it would be a bit cruel to not tell you upfront that you'd have to pay for it and then hit you with a hidden bill afterward.

As for friendlies, that can probably be ruled out on account of the expenses taking place in February, a month in which I played a solitary friendly, sandwiched in between other months where I played a ton and see no such cost. (Regardless, I usually try to schedule friendlies that have me turn a small profit, but when that's not possible, I pick ones that are 0 expense 0 income.)

Surely playing in the group stage of a Finnish cup didn't come with a cool milly in advertising. Really at a loss here.

@herne79@HUNT3R Would either of you know?

[herne79]

16 hours ago, Weston said:

Why would I suddenly have to pay over a million in "advertising, supplies, and other general expenses"?

Sounds like someone has overstocked the club shop.  Or the chairman wanted a new yacht.

I don’t know but as you seem to have had a peak of costs in Feb that might indicate the cost is a lump sum rather than spread over the year.  So perhaps a simplification for coding purposes to reflect annual costs of stocking the club shop, advertising, cleaning the toilets and buying a year’s worth of pies rather than evening it out over the year.  That’s just speculation though.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Maviarab]

The hookers and blackjack late promotion party?

[Mars_Blackmon]

Is your chairman Vince McMahon?

[Weston]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

Sounds like someone has overstocked the club shop.  Or the chairman wanted a new yacht.

I don’t know but as you seem to have had a peak of costs in Feb that might indicate the cost is a lump sum rather than spread over the year.  So perhaps a simplification for coding purposes to reflect annual costs of stocking the club shop, advertising, cleaning the toilets and buying a year’s worth of pies rather than evening it out over the year.  That’s just speculation though.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Could be, but those seem like pretty standard annual costs - why is it only appearing as a massive peak this one season? We've been a yo-yo club as of late (I took over in D2 and got us promoted) so I can tell there's no correlation with position in the Finnish footballing pyramid.

Who would be able to give us a definitive answer on this?

Edited February 16, 2023 by Weston

[Weston]

2 hours ago, Maviarab said:

The hookers and blackjack late promotion party?

Maybe this is why FM won't let us use our manager man's money from wages in game.

[DominicForza]

9 hours ago, herne79 said:

Sounds like someone has overstocked the club shop.  Or the chairman wanted a new yacht.

I don’t know but as you seem to have had a peak of costs in Feb that might indicate the cost is a lump sum rather than spread over the year.  So perhaps a simplification for coding purposes to reflect annual costs of stocking the club shop, advertising, cleaning the toilets and buying a year’s worth of pies rather than evening it out over the year.  That’s just speculation though.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

2 hours ago, Maviarab said:

The hookers and blackjack late promotion party?

 

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Is your chairman Vince McMahon?

 

21 minutes ago, Weston said:

Maybe this is why FM won't let us use our manager man's money from wages in game.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. 

 

From here on out I will get a  grin, even a an occasional chuckle from Other Expenses.

 

Thank you for making my life a little bit better!

[Weston]

Maybe @Neil Brockcould give us a definitive answer?

[Zero_Soul]

Valentine's day?

[Weston]

I mean this shouldn't be one of those "this is a gray area intentionally left vague for realism" aspects of the game when someone in finance absolutely would've written down what it's for on a spreadsheet somewhere.

[Sunstrikuuu]

Especially when it's one of the largest areas of expenditure and you as a manager can be judged on financial performance, an area where you have no control whatsoever beyond player/staff wages, where you're already working to a budget set by the board.

Edit: Also, why is marketing spend lumped into 'Other' when Tax gets broken down into granular detail?  Marketing spend would at least correlate to some vaguely football-related thingies, not that the game gives you any control at board level to make looking at the Finances screen a worthy use of time.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Sunstrikuuu

[GreenTriangle]

In real life there are, indeed, some additional costs in case of a promotion to a higher league. Also, there are additional costs (other than salary costs) in case of a status change (for example, when a semi-professional club becomes professional). I don't know if those costs are really that high (one million), but any of these changes are quite expensive, this being one of the reasons why some clubs are't even interested to promote, although the players they have would allow them to do it.
On the other hand, it seems obvious why FM opted for a generic heading instead of detailing those additional costs. Those costs do exist, but it would probably be impossible to allocate them a specific numerical level due to the fact that they vary from one season to another, from one competition to another and even from one club to another. Probably FM takes into account a percentage from "something", although I couldn't say what exactly that "something" could be.

Edited February 21, 2023 by GreenTriangle

[Weston]

1 minute ago, GreenTriangle said:

In real life there are, indeed, some additional costs in case of a promotion to a higher league. Also, there are additional costs (other than salary costs) in case of a status change (for example, when a semi-professional club becomes professional). I don't know if those costs are really that high (a million), but any of these changes are quite expensive, this being one of the reasons why some clubs are't even interested to promote, although the players they have would allow them to do it.
On the other hand, it seems obvious why FM opted for a generic heading instead of detailing those additional costs. Those costs do exist, but it would probably be impossible to allocate them a specific numerical level due to the fact that they vary from one season to another, from one competition to another and even from one club to another. Probably FM takes into account a percentage from "something", although I couldn't say what exactly that "something" could be.

It would be totally fair for me to have an opaque onslaught of costs associated with turning professional, but 1) why doesn't it just say that, 2) I turned pro months earlier, and the new season started months after, so I don't know why they'd arbitrarily land in Feb, and 3) this club also turned pro when they went up 2 years prior, but that didn't register even a blip, and wouldn't you see a similar dip in expenses when the club went down the year before and after that? It's just not reflected, as far as I can tell.

[DarJ]

@WestonWhile I agree that the finance page can be better, what would it change if they listed everything? It's not like you can influence it anyway, you will still look at it and go "okay"

[Weston]

23 minutes ago, DarJ said:

@WestonWhile I agree that the finance page can be better, what would it change if they listed everything? It's not like you can influence it anyway, you will still look at it and go "okay"

How do I know I can't influence it if I don't know what it is??

This club got promoted and relegated before I took over and never saw this level of expense until I joined as a human manager, so I'm inclined to wonder if something I did is responsible for the skyrocketing costs.

At this point it's pointless to speculate in circles until someone with some authority can clear things up for us...

[DarJ]

47 minutes ago, Weston said:

How do I know I can't influence it if I don't know what it is??

But in the history of football manager what part of the finances have you been able to control apart from the transfers, players sales then staff and players contract?

[Andy1979]

Have you had any staff go on a course or players? Could be scouts claiming expenses back maybe. It seems rather high though when your not a rich club.

[Sunstrikuuu]

12 minutes ago, Andy1979 said:

Have you had any staff go on a course or players? Could be scouts claiming expenses back maybe. It seems rather high though when your not a rich club.

Scouting costs are a separate line item.

[GreenTriangle]

2 hours ago, Weston said:

It would be totally fair for me to have an opaque onslaught of costs associated with turning professional, but 1) why doesn't it just say that, 2) I turned pro months earlier, and the new season started months after, so I don't know why they'd arbitrarily land in Feb, and 3) this club also turned pro when they went up 2 years prior, but that didn't register even a blip, and wouldn't you see a similar dip in expenses when the club went down the year before and after that? It's just not reflected, as far as I can tell.

Well, I stated what I stated because exactly in the season in which the team I manage was promoted to the higher league, these "other expenses" increased from almost zero to over 75,000, which for my club means more than 1/3 of the usual yearly expenses we have. Also, these expenses increased two months after the end of the competition and two and a half months before the start of the next season. But if you prefer to believe that there is no connection between these expenses and promotion, no problem. Everyone is free to believe what they want.

[chipspice1974]

Some official answer from si would be good for clarification 

Edited February 21, 2023 by chipspice1974

[Weston]

1 hour ago, GreenTriangle said:

Well, I stated what I stated because exactly in the season in which the team I manage was promoted to the higher league, these "other expenses" increased from almost zero to over 75,000, which for my club means more than 1/3 of the usual yearly expenses we have. Also, these expenses increased two months after the end of the competition and two and a half months before the start of the next season. But if you prefer to believe that there is no connection between these expenses and promotion, no problem. Everyone is free to believe what they want.

Well now that you've explained this, it does seem to more or less correlate with my experience as well. I do wonder why 1) they would happen in this timeframe and 2) these fees only appeared for one promotion to this league and not the prior one.

Regardless, it's not a question of what I choose to believe or not - I'm asking because I don't know.

[Weston]

1 hour ago, chipspice1974 said:

Some official answer from si would be good for clarification 

Agreed. Is there anyone else who would be appropriate to tag?

[Sunstrikuuu]

4 hours ago, GreenTriangle said:

Everyone is free to believe what they want.

That's not a great answer in a sim.  We're looking at a balance sheet.  It's accountancy; 'believe what you want' shouldn't be in play here.

[Etebaer]

Afair language courses i.e. go into "other" and i had to stop them bcs my low league club goes bankrupt over them - they are tens of thousand of euros or pounds like 25k to 40k for a single player.

[Weston]

18 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Afair language courses i.e. go into "other" and i had to stop them bcs my low league club goes bankrupt over them - they are tens of thousand of euros or pounds like 25k to 40k for a single player.

This is the best answer I've seen so far - I admit I started throwing around language courses fairly easily until I really stopped and thought about the total cost relative to my bank balance.

However, this still doesn't make sense, as the message for these course specifically says that it is billed monthly, so why would they all be dumped in February together? Either the expenses are something else, or the real issue needing fixing is that 1) language course costs are explained incorrectly and 2) the "Other" section should specifically state that it includes language courses.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Weston

[JimbobWWFC]

With fluctuating income and expenditure without any explanation I always used to put that down to the game balancing out the finances to keep things as 'realistic' as possible for a team at that level.

Not that I've got any proof to bacl it up; it's just an assumption and I moved on. E.g. a team seems to be overarching financially and as a way of 'rubber-banding' to stop things getting too out of control, the game increases the outgoings via the 'Other' category

[jcp1417]

the "Other" expenses category includes a wide range of expenses that are not included in the other categories, such as legal fees, agent fees, travel expenses, insurance, etc. These expenses can vary greatly depending on the size of your club, the country you are playing in, and your board's expectations.

If your "Other" expenses are unusually high, there may be a few reasons why this is the case:

- High agent fees: If you are signing a lot of players or renewing contracts with high-profile players, you may be paying a lot of money in agent fees. Try negotiating lower fees with agents or reducing the number of transfers.

-Travel expenses: If you are playing in a country with a large geographic area, you may be spending a lot on travel expenses. Try reducing the number of friendly matches or arranging travel in a more cost-effective way.

-Legal fees: If your club is involved in legal disputes, you may be spending a lot on legal fees. Try to avoid disputes or resolve them quickly and amicably.

-Board expectations: If your board has high expectations for the club's performance or finances, they may be requiring you to spend more money on certain expenses. Try negotiating with the board or finding ways to reduce expenses in other areas.

[Weston]

7 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

If your "Other" expenses are unusually high, there may be a few reasons why this is the case:

I appreciate this explanation, but none of these apply.

7 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

- High agent fees: If you are signing a lot of players or renewing contracts with high-profile players, you may be paying a lot of money in agent fees. Try negotiating lower fees with agents or reducing the number of transfers.

I signed only 2 players all of February, a very small minority of the large amount of players I signed in all other months around Feb.

7 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

-Travel expenses: If you are playing in a country with a large geographic area, you may be spending a lot on travel expenses. Try reducing the number of friendly matches or arranging travel in a more cost-effective way.

I played only 1 away match this entire month, which is very small compared to the average month, and I make this trip at least one other time in the season, yet there is no comparable explosion in costs then.

7 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

-Legal fees: If your club is involved in legal disputes, you may be spending a lot on legal fees. Try to avoid disputes or resolve them quickly and amicably.

No idea what this could be referring to. What lawsuits could I even get involved with?

7 hours ago, jcp1417 said:

-Board expectations: If your board has high expectations for the club's performance or finances, they may be requiring you to spend more money on certain expenses. Try negotiating with the board or finding ways to reduce expenses in other areas.

My board refuses to do anything that costs money, they won't even lift the cap on how much I can pay my assistant manager, so I don't see how this is it.

 

---

 

I'm strongly leaning toward it being language courses that are incorrectly logged, but would still love for someone with real knowledge or authority to just clear things up so we can stop speculating.

[jcp1417]

2 minutes ago, Weston said:

I'm strongly leaning toward it being language courses that are incorrectly logged, but would still love for someone with real knowledge or authority to just clear things up so we can stop speculating.

I'm not sure you'll get much of a response from them. It seems like the folks at SI may not have a full grasp of how everything fits together. From what I can tell, FM is made up of a bunch of different features and systems all mixed together.

[XaW]

2 hours ago, Weston said:

I'm strongly leaning toward it being language courses that are incorrectly logged, but would still love for someone with real knowledge or authority to just clear things up so we can stop speculating.

You'd have to report it in the bug tracker, I think. If you think it's too much, I mean. Then SI can look and give you an answer there.

[Nacaw]

Maybe increased payment for police to show up for your games? But all the guesses are just trying to make pieces fit a weird puzzle.

That leads me to believe it's not meant to be anything specific, just that as you enter the top flight of your country, your general expenses go up and this is what simulates that part.  

[Weston]

10 hours ago, XaW said:

You'd have to report it in the bug tracker, I think. If you think it's too much, I mean. Then SI can look and give you an answer there.

I don't have any reason to assume it's a bug other than its lack of explanation, which could be easily remedied by any one of the people I tagged giving an explanation. Also there are several issues I've posted in the bug forums weeks ago that still have no solid response, so...

[Jimmy Wong]

20 hours ago, Weston said:

I don't have any reason to assume it's a bug other than its lack of explanation, which could be easily remedied by any one of the people I tagged giving an explanation. Also there are several issues I've posted in the bug forums weeks ago that still have no solid response, so...

We would still suggest you to raise this in the Bug Tracker so our team can investigate for you. Especially if you have a save game prior to the issue. Thank you.

[Weston]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Wong said:

We would still suggest you to raise this in the Bug Tracker so our team can investigate for you. Especially if you have a save game prior to the issue. Thank you.

Will do.

[dalenichol]

Whilst not at the same level as yours, I'm currently managing in the Scottish lower leagues and having been promoted from the East of Scotland Premier to the Lowland league, so still a promotion away from the football pyramid, and our 'other' expenses have almost tripled....and it's not even midway through December yet. 

We spent £8k on 'other' last season, and we've spent £22k on 'other' by the 13th of December. 

[Weston]

1 hour ago, dalenichol said:

Whilst not at the same level as yours, I'm currently managing in the Scottish lower leagues and having been promoted from the East of Scotland Premier to the Lowland league, so still a promotion away from the football pyramid, and our 'other' expenses have almost tripled....and it's not even midway through December yet. 

We spent £8k on 'other' last season, and we've spent £22k on 'other' by the 13th of December. 

Have you been sending players out on language courses? That's still my personal leading theory.

[dalenichol]

2 minutes ago, Weston said:

Have you been sending players out on language courses? That's still my personal leading theory.

Nope, we've not really signed anybody except two young Scottish players. 

Ended up holidaying a bit towards the end of the season and it's only went up to £28k a few months later, but between that and "non football costs" also jumping up by £11k, it's a wee bit ****!

[Weston]

1 hour ago, dalenichol said:

Nope, we've not really signed anybody except two young Scottish players. 

Ended up holidaying a bit towards the end of the season and it's only went up to £28k a few months later, but between that and "non football costs" also jumping up by £11k, it's a wee bit ****!

Wow, well then I'm really at a loss...

You should consider adding your save to my bug post.

[Maviarab]

My money is still on the DoF and Sports Analyst's trips to the dodgy 'club' down Soho.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Maviarab

[Etebaer]

I looked recently into it and in germany tier 4 which is "Regionalliga" i have other expenses of ~4,5k per month and last fiscal year it was ~75k.

I dont do any language c(o)urses so i can not have any expense from it (but i know from expensive mistakes these count into "other").

So it seems a small amount of "other" expenses is allways running so maybe a modder like Daveincid (as he mods club finances in his reality mods) has a deeper clue what "other" means...

[Zachary Whyte]

Hi everyone, there are many different calculations that go into 'Other' finances,  the day to day running of the club such as player insurance is one example.

This is something we can look to make clearer in the future.  

[Weston]

1 hour ago, Zachary Whyte said:

Hi everyone, there are many different calculations that go into 'Other' finances,  the day to day running of the club such as player insurance is one example.

This is something we can look to make clearer in the future.  

Thanks - can you please take a look at this save and let me know what specifically is at play in this example?