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Help - should i pass into space?


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I won promotion with a very tall, very slow target man up top, so I had "pass into space" turned off and crosses set to float.

Now I've signed a very fast advanced forward to pair him with.

I still want to my midfielders to float crosses to the slow, tall target man, and pass to his feet (or head). But now I also want them to pass into space and hit low crosses for his striking partner.

The crosses I suppose should be set to mixed - I just have to hope my guys don't float to the short guy and hit 'em low and hard to the tall guy. Unless I should keep them to float and leave the "aim crosses at target man" setting on, so it's specified.

But what about passing into space? I only have the option to turn it on or off - I can't tell them to change it up depending on who they're kicking it to.

So what should I do? Obviously I don't want them kicking it in front of someone with pace/acceleration of 10/9 or to the feet of someone with pace/acceleration of 16s. I vaguely recall asking this question some years ago, but I don't remember what the consensus was.

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They'll seek out playing it directly to the target forward more anyways due to the role itself. Pass into space will work fine as long as the attacking forward has space to run into (medium/low lines). His job will be to sit on the defenders shoulder and wait for the ball over the top, or the TF to knock it down to him. If you're playing with a high press flip off pass into space and go for hit crosses early instead.

The AF and TF is one of the best combinations in the game I believe (they perfectly compliment what the other one lacks and push back hard on the oppositions backline).

I'd go for mixed. 

Side note: Such a wombo combo benefits a lot from looking at the opposition CBs and lining up the striker who can exploit the opposition center back best. So for example: if the CB on their right is short and fast, you're going to want your TF starting on the left of your formation. If a CB is slow, lining up the AF will give him more space to get away and in behind.

Edited by Cloud9
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8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

They'll seek out playing it directly to the target forward more anyways due to the role itself. Pass into space will work fine as long as the attacking forward has space to run into (medium/low lines). His job will be to sit on the defenders shoulder and wait for the ball over the top, or the TF to knock it down to him. If you're playing with a high press flip off pass into space and go for hit crosses early instead.

But would hit early crosses completely take my lumbering TF out of the game as he'll be too slow to get into position if the ball is whipped in immediately? I wish there was an option to set instructions for individual players, ie "hit it delayed and slow to x," "hit it fast and low to y."

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

I'd go for mixed. 

Do intelligent players actually hit high balls to tall guys and vice versa, or does this just basically make it 50/50 and you have to hope for the best? I've been in lower leagues and basically moneyballing it by focusing on one type of play for one type of player, but now that I have multiple styles available to me at the same time I'm not sure how to get this squad ready to exploit them all.

So maybe I'm overthinking it - but should I try to mix it to benefit everyone and risk benefitting no one, or stick to aiming crosses slow and high to the big guy hoping he could always flick it on to the short fast guy as well as shoot if he wants? I don't know.

8 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

Side note: Such a wombo combo benefits a lot from looking at the opposition CBs and lining up the striker who can exploit the opposition center back best. So for example: if the CB on their right is short and fast, you're going to want your TF starting on the left of your formation. If a CB is slow, lining up the AF will give him more space to get away and in behind.

I usually put the right-footed one on the left and vice versa no matter what. Do the benefits of this outweigh the benefits of that?

Edited by Weston
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2 hours ago, Weston said:

But would hit early crosses completely take my lumbering TF out of the game as he'll be too slow to get into position if the ball is whipped in immediately? I wish there was an option to set instructions for individual players, ie "hit it delayed and slow to x," "hit it fast and low to y."

Do intelligent players actually hit high balls to tall guys and vice versa, or does this just basically make it 50/50 and you have to hope for the best? I've been in lower leagues and basically moneyballing it by focusing on one type of play for one type of player, but now that I have multiple styles available to me at the same time I'm not sure how to get this squad ready to exploit them all.

So maybe I'm overthinking it - but should I try to mix it to benefit everyone and risk benefitting no one, or stick to aiming crosses slow and high to the big guy hoping he could always flick it on to the short fast guy as well as shoot if he wants? I don't know.

I usually put the right-footed one on the left and vice versa no matter what. Do the benefits of this outweigh the benefits of that?

I'd consider the TF to be where your line of engagement is on the field, I've only ever used one as a TF(s) role which means he's dropping back anyways, looking to receive the ball and play in the AF (the main goal threat). If you want your target forward to be scoring a lot, and he will anyways from set pieces, you'd need to play with a higher line of engagement. In my opinion though the TF really shines as a way to beat a high press against better teams.

TF is similar to a playmaker in that the other players will look to pick him out more regardless if you tell them to or not. If you want it to happen more often, you can tell the GK to do so, and tell the crossers of the ball to do so. I think that's a little redundant in most cases. If you're looking to counter (which you should be, given the pass into space) I wouldn't worry about neglecting him in the build up. I'd only ever ask the boys to distribute directly to the TF against a team we didn't have the capability to play against (so the long ball straight to the TF are the best way to progress) or if we were facing a high press.

I think lofting crosses will sacrifice some of the balls played over the top to the AF (your main goal threat) so I'd stay mixed. 

Left or right footed matters for build up play more in my experience, but for strikers it's not as important (a two footed striker is sick though because the defenders don't know what to do). The side he's shooting from if he's one footed doesn't seem too impactful. I'd prefer my 18 jumping reach TF to be standing next to the 13 jumping reach CB and my 16 pace striker sitting on the shoulder of the 10 pace CB than worrying about the side their shooting from. 

At the lower leagues, I think you are over thinking it. Physical attributes are all powerful there. I used a wide target forward in the lower leagues which isn't a super role and he just sort of transcended tactics and smashed everyone. Consistency (or lack there of ) also doesn't affect physical attributes so in a league of inconsistent players, being strong/fast is king. 

 

 

 

Edited by Cloud9
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13 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I'd consider the TF to be where your line of engagement is on the field, I've only ever used one as a TF(s) role which means he's dropping back anyways, looking to receive the ball and play in the AF (the main goal threat). If you want your target forward to be scoring a lot, and he will anyways from set pieces, you'd need to play with a higher line of engagement. In my opinion though the TF really shines as a way to beat a high press against better teams.

Yes, I have a high front line (positive mentality) but standard back line (slow defenders).

13 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

TF is similar to a playmaker in that the other players will look to pick him out more regardless if you tell them to or not. If you want it to happen more often, you can tell the GK to do so, and tell the crossers of the ball to do so. I think that's a little redundant in most cases. If you're looking to counter (which you should be, given the pass into space) I wouldn't worry about neglecting him in the build up. I'd only ever ask the boys to distribute directly to the TF against a team we didn't have the capability to play against (so the long ball straight to the TF are the best way to progress) or if we were facing a high press.

My keeper's kicking attribute (14)  is actually higher than most of my outfield player's passing attributes, and the TF is SO massive, that I have the keeper set to distribute to the TF, because he can knock it down to someone else. I originally wanted to play from the back, and while ironically one CB (14) is tied for best passer with my backup short CAM (14), the other CB is terrible at passing, so I don't want to instruct my keeper to distribute to CBs since there's no way to specify just the one.

I'm not usually countering, but I probably will away to the handful of clubs predicted to finish above me. Maybe I only pass into space in those games?

17 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

I think lofting crosses will sacrifice some of the balls played over the top to the AF (your main goal threat) so I'd stay mixed. 

Oh really? I thought forward through balls and crosses from wide were distinctly different things. I want to specify how they cross when they cross, not necessarily tell them to cross more. I'm guess if I choose mixed I should remove the instruction to cross to the TF, but if I keep that, then I should keep it to floated.

19 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Left or right footed matters for build up play more in my experience, but for strikers it's not as important (a two footed striker is sick though because the defenders don't know what to do). The side he's shooting from if he's one footed doesn't seem too impactful. I'd prefer my 18 jumping reach TF to be standing next to the 13 jumping reach CB and my 16 pace striker sitting on the shoulder of the 10 pace CB than worrying about the side their shooting from. 

Interesting. I feel like I notice their shooting benefit from being on the opposite side, but maybe my perception is skewed because I don't see them without it for comparison? In any case, the opposition CBs are usually all 11-13 attributes across the board for speed and height, so at this level there often isn't a huge distinction to exploit, but I'll pay more attention to this moving forward.

23 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

At the lower leagues, I think you are over thinking it. Physical attributes are all powerful there. I used a wide target forward in the lower leagues which isn't a super role and he just sort of transcended tactics and smashed everyone. Consistency (or lack there of ) also doesn't affect physical attributes so in a league of inconsistent players, being strong/fast is king. 

Yeah I agree, this is why I sought out the fasted and tallest strikers I could find. But usually I only get one or the other, and build the team around that one extreme style - it's having both simultaneously that's confusing me.

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12 hours ago, Weston said:

I won promotion with a very tall, very slow target man up top, so I had "pass into space" turned off and crosses set to float.

Now I've signed a very fast advanced forward to pair him with.

I still want to my midfielders to float crosses to the slow, tall target man, and pass to his feet (or head). But now I also want them to pass into space and hit low crosses for his striking partner.

The crosses I suppose should be set to mixed - I just have to hope my guys don't float to the short guy and hit 'em low and hard to the tall guy. Unless I should keep them to float and leave the "aim crosses at target man" setting on, so it's specified.

But what about passing into space? I only have the option to turn it on or off - I can't tell them to change it up depending on who they're kicking it to.

So what should I do? Obviously I don't want them kicking it in front of someone with pace/acceleration of 10/9 or to the feet of someone with pace/acceleration of 16s. I vaguely recall asking this question some years ago, but I don't remember what the consensus was.

Remarkably similar sounding to my team last season. 

I set wide players Cross Aim>Target Man, and turned on Floated Crosses and Pass Into Space and it worked well for me.

It manifested itself as my target man being my primary creator. If the ball came thru the middle, the target man would receive the ball, hold it up, and hit my other striker with a pass into space as he surges on the break. Or if the we transitioned down the wings, the target man would get in the box and head in the crosser himself.

So since my target man was the main one doing the break out passing, I didn't have to worry about him being the target of said passes as much. I tried different combinations, but from what I saw, distributing to the target man, aiming crosses at him and allowing him to pass into space created exactly the result I wanted. Granted he had good playmaking attributes for a forward at my level and there are A LOT of other moving pieces happening I'm not accounting for. But those specific instructions seemed to give me more of that player style I wanted than other things I tried (aforementioned mixing crosses, not passing to space etc)

 

Keep in mind this tactic was designed around running thru the Target Man entirely. I was running high tempo and basically spoon feeding him the ball in transitions. 

He led my team in assists and my team did pretty much what you are describing here. But again, it's not necessarily that simple.

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29 minutes ago, El-Ahrairah said:

Remarkably similar sounding to my team last season. 

I set wide players Cross Aim>Target Man, and turned on Floated Crosses and Pass Into Space and it worked well for me.

It manifested itself as my target man being my primary creator. If the ball came thru the middle, the target man would receive the ball, hold it up, and hit my other striker with a pass into space as he surges on the break. Or if the we transitioned down the wings, the target man would get in the box and head in the crosser himself.

So since my target man was the main one doing the break out passing, I didn't have to worry about him being the target of said passes as much. I tried different combinations, but from what I saw, distributing to the target man, aiming crosses at him and allowing him to pass into space created exactly the result I wanted. Granted he had good playmaking attributes for a forward at my level and there are A LOT of other moving pieces happening I'm not accounting for. But those specific instructions seemed to give me more of that player style I wanted than other things I tried (aforementioned mixing crosses, not passing to space etc)

 

Keep in mind this tactic was designed around running thru the Target Man entirely. I was running high tempo and basically spoon feeding him the ball in transitions. 

He led my team in assists and my team did pretty much what you are describing here. But again, it's not necessarily that simple.

Interesting. My TF isn't a great passer, but I guess you don't have to be to just knock it down over the defenders into the wide open space somewhere and hope for the best.

I think the reason I'm worried about this is because, last season, even without 'pass into space' and "slightly shorter" passes, my lower league guys would still just hoof it long fairly often, and I had no players that could really catch up to it. So I'm worried clicking this will exacerbate that, but perhaps this is a sign that I don't need it because they'll still panic and just wack it over the line anyway, and now I'll have someone ready to pick up on that.

Since I'm relying on physicality first and foremost before our technical ability, should I try to play faster like you did as opposed to trying to control possession more?

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2 hours ago, Weston said:

Yes, I have a high front line (positive mentality) but standard back line (slow defenders).

My keeper's kicking attribute (14)  is actually higher than most of my outfield player's passing attributes, and the TF is SO massive, that I have the keeper set to distribute to the TF, because he can knock it down to someone else. I originally wanted to play from the back, and while ironically one CB (14) is tied for best passer with my backup short CAM (14), the other CB is terrible at passing, so I don't want to instruct my keeper to distribute to CBs since there's no way to specify just the one.

I'm not usually countering, but I probably will away to the handful of clubs predicted to finish above me. Maybe I only pass into space in those games?

Oh really? I thought forward through balls and crosses from wide were distinctly different things. I want to specify how they cross when they cross, not necessarily tell them to cross more. I'm guess if I choose mixed I should remove the instruction to cross to the TF, but if I keep that, then I should keep it to floated.

Interesting. I feel like I notice their shooting benefit from being on the opposite side, but maybe my perception is skewed because I don't see them without it for comparison? In any case, the opposition CBs are usually all 11-13 attributes across the board for speed and height, so at this level there often isn't a huge distinction to exploit, but I'll pay more attention to this moving forward.

Yeah I agree, this is why I sought out the fasted and tallest strikers I could find. But usually I only get one or the other, and build the team around that one extreme style - it's having both simultaneously that's confusing me.

Cool cool, that all sounds good-- hope it goes well. I think it'll work great with just flipping off "pass into space" except when you're defending deeper. Distribute to the TF can feel wasteful in terms of turning the ball over to the opposition but if your gk is your best option for distribution I'd say go for it. 

On a high line: if you're noticing in games your playing with your forwards already in the opposition box you might experiment with changing the AF to a poacher role. 

Edited by Cloud9
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