Questions on Mentoring

[permanentquandary]

1) Do players in a mentoring group all have to be capable of playing the same position?
2) Do players in a mentoring group have to be from the same training unit? Eg can I take Hugo Loris (Model Citizen) and get him to work on mentoring with Japhet Tanganga?
3) If players are not the same social group, does that mean mentoring will have no effect, or does it mean the effect will be reduced/take longer to actualise?

[Cloud9]

13 hours ago, permanentquandary said:

1) Do players in a mentoring group all have to be capable of playing the same position?
2) Do players in a mentoring group have to be from the same training unit? Eg can I take Hugo Loris (Model Citizen) and get him to work on mentoring with Japhet Tanganga?
3) If players are not the same social group, does that mean mentoring will have no effect, or does it mean the effect will be reduced/take longer to actualize?

1. No
2. Mentors /mentees don't need to be in the same training group either. That said, you can gain traits from mentoring that you may not want on the player, so keep an eye out for the Mentors existing traits. Your "professional" striker with "tries first time shots" may not be a good fit for your young centers-back with 6 finishing. Hugo Lloris can mentor anyone, but as Tanganga is 23 he may be past the mentoring period, but you'll be able to see what's up in the mentoring tab.
3. So the hierarchy/a players reputation is what it's important here. It affects how much influence they exert on the group (Significant/average/low/none).  When you sign a youth player, give them the lowest promised playing time (ex: Fringe player) for them to gain more from mentoring. Mentoring will be most successful when they're young (16-20ish), and with diminishing returns as they start to play well within the squad. Loaning a player out can be a good way to get him playing time, but you won't have the time to influence his personality (if he's a gem, consider keeping him in and around the first team and nurturing that development in house).

A couple of general tips: General squad personality will influence other players personalities, particularly when they're younger (Josh Vickers is a great back up goalkeeper, a model citizen, who can mentor a little and boost this). Another Model citizen, Sean Mcloughlin, can provide solid cover to elite squads or slot into a championship starting 11. Keep mentoring groups as small as possible to ensure good results. Check a players media handling when setting up the mentoring groups. "Evasive" and "unflappable" are the two I look for as really positive indicators. Some traits are only learnable through mentoring (like curls the ball or gets crowd going). "Consistency" and "enjoys big matches" are not attributes that are influenced by mentoring. 

• Players personalities generally improve as they age, but don't try to "save" anyone. Besides once they hit 22-23, they may start negatively influencing the next generation coming through. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Cloud9

[Manden]

Fantastic answer Cloud9. I never really thought about the squad status of the trainee. 

[ryandormer]

On 03/02/2023 at 05:10, Cloud9 said:

1. No
2. Mentors /mentees don't need to be in the same training group either. That said, you can gain traits from mentoring that you may not want on the player, so keep an eye out for the Mentors existing traits. Your "professional" striker with "tries first time shots" may not be a good fit for your young centers-back with 6 finishing. Hugo Lloris can mentor anyone, but as Tanganga is 23 he may be past the mentoring period, but you'll be able to see what's up in the mentoring tab.
3. So the hierarchy/a players reputation is what it's important here. It affects how much influence they exert on the group (Significant/average/low/none).  When you sign a youth player, give them the lowest promised playing time (ex: Fringe player) for them to gain more from mentoring. Mentoring will be most successful when they're young (16-20ish), and with diminishing returns as they start to play well within the squad. Loaning a player out can be a good way to get him playing time, but you won't have the time to influence his personality (if he's a gem, consider keeping him in and around the first team and nurturing that development in house).

A couple of general tips: General squad personality will influence other players personalities, particularly when they're younger (Josh Vickers is a great back up goalkeeper, a model citizen, who can mentor a little and boost this). Another Model citizen, Sean Mcloughlin, can provide solid cover to elite squads or slot into a championship starting 11. Keep mentoring groups as small as possible to ensure good results. Check a players media handling when setting up the mentoring groups. "Evasive" and "unflappable" are the two I look for as really positive indicators. Some traits are only learnable through mentoring (like curls the ball or gets crowd going). "Consistency" and "enjoys big matches" are not attributes that are influenced by mentoring. 

• Players personalities generally improve as they age, but don't try to "save" anyone. Besides once they hit 22-23, they may start negatively influencing the next generation coming through. 

 

 

That's incredibly helpful. A couple of questions:

1. Is there a way to stop players in the group picking up traits? Is it position specific?

2. Would you recommend adding youth team players to first team training just for the sake of mentoring? Or would it be better to keep them in the youth teams for training purposes?

[Cloud9]

6 hours ago, ryandormer said:

That's incredibly helpful. A couple of questions:

1. Is there a way to stop players in the group picking up traits? Is it position specific?

2. Would you recommend adding youth team players to first team training just for the sake of mentoring? Or would it be better to keep them in the youth teams for training purposes?

Just make sure the mentor in the mentoring group doesn't have traits you don't want on his mentees. This is the easiest way to stop unwanted traits getting picked up. Sometimes players pick up traits from the squad, this sucks but there's not really anything you can do about it.

• Ideally you should look for traits on the mentor you actually want to transfer to the mentees when setting up the groups. Traits don't take up PA, but they're additional training that will slow a players development. Getting them for free is a big deal. On traits: less is more usually and they can mess up your tactics. Try to give players traits who have something exceptional about them or a clear problem the tendency (trait) fixes. For example: training rounds the goalkeeper on a flair dribbler w/no end product can be a great solution for a player who will miss all his chances. If you train "tries killer balls" on all your regens with decent passing, everyone will start thinking they're a playmaker in your squad and you'll be in trouble.
• I would recommend promoting them to the first team  If a gem comes through your youth system: promote him to the first team and then have them play with the u21/u18 squad. That way you can mentor them and they can still get their development in until they turn 18.
• A positive general squad personality and strong mentoring group gives a young player tons time to develop his personality and get those traits you want on him. When he turns 18 he'll be ready start his development as a squad player in the first team. If you start bringing them off the bench for appearances before they turn 18, just be really careful about it, and make sure most of their development is focused on training. 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[HanziZoloman]

At the moment I have a professional team mentality, turns out almost everyone turns fairly professional from balance, even those who were no good mentees anymore due having played too many games. 
Squad personalty is a big influence together with mentoring. 
I promote my best youth prospects into first team like @Cloud9 said for mentoring and it works well.

also you have these training reports from your assistants, there are helpful hints how the mentoring is working, check them out. Watch out for determination, work rate and teamwork within your mentors because if they are low they lead to a slight decline with your mentees. 
Had a 18 teamwork youth player and didn’t mentor him because no one else did have this high teamwork. 

[Cloud9]

22 minutes ago, HanziZoloman said:

At the moment I have a professional team mentality, turns out almost everyone turns fairly professional from balance, even those who were no good mentees anymore due having played too many games. 
Squad personalty is a big influence together with mentoring. 
I promote my best youth prospects into first team like @Cloud9 said for mentoring and it works well.

also you have these training reports from your assistants, there are helpful hints how the mentoring is working, check them out. Watch out for determination, work rate and teamwork within your mentors because if they are low they lead to a slight decline with your mentees. 
Had a 18 teamwork youth player and didn’t mentor him because no one else did have this high teamwork. 

"Balanced" personalities are either because SI doesn't know or doesn't want to say (because they could get sued). That's why only newgens have bad personalities. If it's a young player IRL and he's "balanced," his hidden attributes are probably around 10 (a balanced older player is more of a concern since it's more likely to be the "they don't want to say" category). 

I believe "balanced' means 1-14 in everything. So a "Balanced" player could be sitting at 14 professionalism and can get bumped up into that "fairly professional" range (15 professionalism) like you're seeing. He could also be sitting at like 5 professionalism which is a serious problem. 

Here's a handy guide: https://www.fmscout.com/a-guide-to-player-personalities-football-manager.html

Edited April 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[Cleon]

Quote

• I would recommend promoting them to the first team  If a gem comes through your youth system: promote him to the first team and then have them play with the u21/u18 squad. That way you can mentor them and they can still get their development in until they turn 18.

The fault with this is if you promote them and make them available for u21/u18's, they miss training because the first team train different days and play matches different days. So aside from the benefit of mentoring, it has a negative effect on training. As the training days are out of sync with match days. Personally I'd only ever promote if they are getting used in the first team as you're sacrificing training if not.

[HanziZoloman]

sure @Cleon but if you play one match a week in 2nd division it's not so bad (?)

[Cloud9]

Interesting @Cleon

Using an u18 player you can also create the best mentoring groups IMO, where the u18 player has no influence. Here Vedat Muriqi is a Driven (overriding his Resilient) Evasive & Unflappable mentor for two hot shots for the first team. We're trying to iron out some of the Perfectionists undesirable Media Handling, and get some ability to handle Pressure on him. Since the minimum is three to a mentoring group, we've basically created a 1 on 1 situation like the old (and overpowered) tutoring system. The u18 will also benefit from both positive personalities, although primarily from the big man. This is how I like to set up the groups:

Just a side note: Driven personalities are not necessarily good ones (they have priority over a lot of personalities) and sticking them in a mentoring group like this could end poorly. However since we know Muriqi, it's a different situation here.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Cloud9

[Cleon]

When SI brought the new training module in and the new mentoring system, I was one of 3 people giving feedbackon it and was privy to how it all worked before anyone else. SI even asked me (all 3 of us)to write the guides for it. I wrote this at the time and it still holds true, this is a little bit from it;

Quote

 

Another thing I see mentioned is people wanting to promote entire youth teams to the first team, just for the benefit of mentoring. Don’t do this, it’s a bit silly. Mentoring isn’t that powerful and it’s something that is considered long-term compared to tutoring. Before tutoring was this powerful tool that unrealistically allowed you to change personality in a few short months. Allowing you to turn unambitious players into model professionals in a very short amount of time. Forget this mindset and think of mentoring as part of everything overall and not the governing factor in everything.

Promoting everyone to the first team to be mentored is also very unrealistic and does have some implications. One of those implications is the training they get in the youth squads is actually more demanding from a workload perspective as the players can do more due to playing fewer games. This is reflected in the sessions and schedules. So technically the players would be doing less training by promoting them, as the game would think you planned on actually using them. This is why you should only promote those who you plan on using and giving game time to, or to take a closer look at specific players in general.

Another reason for not promoting everyone is actual match days. The youth team match days would likely be out of sync with the first team. Meaning they’d be losing training days because they’re on the first teams training schedule but still playing youth games (if you made them available that is) on a youth schedule. So any training that would take place on a youth game day wouldn’t happen for those playing in the youth game. Then on the senior teams match day, you don’t have training so the players wouldn’t be making up for it there either. So think wisely and weigh up the benefits of everything before being hasty and thinking promoting everyone would be a good idea and strategy. Because in truth, it wouldn’t and you’d be wasting possible training days

The full article can be found here: 

 

Edited April 7, 2023 by Cleon

[HanziZoloman]

Thanks that makes sense. I promote the best youth prospects always at the end of season who are already 18. just this year made an exception for a 16 year old and will cancel this decision now due to training.

[Duracellio]

Hi @Cleon,

I was digging in this topic for some answers regarding mentoring has I've noticed what I think it is a bug, and saw that you're kind of experienced on this part of the game.

I noticed something about mentoring and was wondering if anyone else was talking about this but couldn't find anything about it:

25 minutos atrás, Duracellio disse:

Those young players indeed don't appear when you try to choose them to be mentored but If you ask your assistant manager to handle the mentoring group, he might, in some cases, pull those kids, even if they are in U19's, U23's, reserves, etc has long has they are added to the trainning units with senior squad.

This make me think that it is either a bug that wasn't supposed to happen or a feature that should work and apparently isn't and I think it is the second case because it makes total sense for those young players to be mentored by older players if they are trainning with them every day right? Either way should be fixed as it is very annoying, but I am not sure if SI is aware of this issue...

 

Edited February 16 by Duracellio

[HanziZoloman]

Am 6.4.2023 um 20:01 schrieb Cloud9:

I would recommend promoting them to the first team  If a gem comes through your youth system: promote him to the first team and then have them play with the u21/u18 squad. That way you can mentor them and they can still get their development in until they turn 18.

edit: didn't noticed everything was answered before .. sorry

Edited February 16 by HanziZoloman

[Bahnzo]

15 hours ago, HanziZoloman said:

edit: didn't noticed everything was answered before .. sorry

I think I know what you were talking about, but I wanted to show this, and give an example why I think it's a bad idea to move youngsters to the first team simply for mentoring. You can see this week from the schedule, where the U19 game is on a different day from the first team. And then, you have a midweek champions league game. Any youngsters brought up for mentoring will miss multiple days of training, which isn't worth it. Not only will they miss Tuesday, but the days around it will be setup with recovery and whatnot, which isn't great for the youngster not playing in that champ league game. Then the U19 game on Saturday is offset from the first team game on Sunday, which leads to more missed days. 

So I really do believe it's never worth it. It might be different if you are a league 2 team where you only play 1 game a week and the U19 games are usually on the same day.