Can't seem to press high enough (4-4-2)

[_Nutty_]

Hello!

I’ve played FM for over 20 years, since it was called CM. Now, in FM23, I am struggling to get my preferred tactic to work, so much that it’s my first time in this forum!

Over the years I’ve seen many flaws in the ME, but I am yet to find something eyecatching in this years' ME. It leads me to believe that something is really wrong with my tactic and not that my tactic does not work in this ME.
But I believe that there’s indeed a problem in this ME regarding park the bus tactics! Ive never seen  IRL a strong team struggle for possession against a lesser team. It happens to me a lot in this years FM! A lesser team will have over 65% possession and since I don’t have the ball I cannot create goal scoring situations!

Below are some screenshots of my defeats this season. I’m managing a good team, some very good players, and I’m exceeding expectations. Still I’ve managed to loose 4 games 3-0 and one against PSG, away, 5-1. In all of those 3-0 defeats I feel I was never on top of the game. I’ve tried almost everything but I can’t seem to press high or hard enough to get the ball back! The opposing defenders exchange the ball between themselves for as long as they want. 

I’ve started with a 4-2-3-1 formation but got no real success so changed to two strikers to see if I could outscore my opponents. So far so good but… I’m conceding too many goals. I have one of the best offenses and one of the worst defenses. I’ve managed 3 teams so far and it’s a pattern.

What can I change? I like to play a possession, quick, high pressing, wing play game so I ticked all the boxes I could find.

Starting to think I’ll have to wait for FM24 to possibly find success…

Thanks!
 

[CARRERA]

2 hours ago, _Nutty_ said:

The opposing defenders exchange the ball between themselves for as long as they want. 

That’s a known issue in the ME since the last update. I really hope they can fix it with the next patch. You can’t really fix the problem, you can just get over it :-/

[Yisz]

Have you tried OI?

[Andros]

would it help the press to push more players into the AM strata? then they would be naturally closer to the defenders.  Also like Yisz says - try OIs - like try marking specific players to get them closer to where you want them to be.  this can have some obvious problems as your shape will change, but maybe worth a shot to see if it achieves what you want.

[woolymuffler]

Assuming those instructions are the ones you are using and wanting to press high with, you aren't counter-pressing and you are using a mid-block and standard line of defense. So you are not telling your team to press high or immediately try to win the ball back on turnover with those instructions. If you are wanting to do a prime Messi-era Barcelona-type tactic (high immediate press but then hold possession with short passing once the ball is recovered), I would try:

1) High Block (line of engagement); this tells your players to start defending/pressing higher up the field

2) Raise Defensive Line; if you are starting your defense higher up the field, you generally want to raise your defensive line to have your players closer together (front to back). This helps with pressing and reduces the space for the opponents. 

3) Turn on Counter-Press; this encourages your players to try to win the ball immediately rather than fall back to their defensive positions. So if you want more immediate pressure on their defenders near their goal, you want this turned on.

4) Personally, I always specifically mark the opponents FBs/WBs (position, not specific player) with my outside midfielders. This will place them closer to the opposing FBs when pressing and this seems to encourage my outside mids to come back on defense more and helps your FBs/WBs not be outnumbered on the flanks as often. It's a trade off though as they won't be as high up the pitch when starting attacks.

5) With a 4-4-2 being weaker in the middle than most modern formations (only 2 CMs and no DM), you could try "trap outside" to encourage the opponent to play to the flanks, where you are at least equal in numbers and can trap the opponent against the sideline.

6) You can also set your players to "Get Stuck In" as this will make them tackle more aggressively when they close down the opponents. It's risky of course (especially with a strict referee), considering your attackers will be the ones pressing high and aren't usually very good at tackling. But if the other team is kicking lumps out of your players without getting carded or giving away a lot of free kicks, it might be worth trying. I would not do this until I had a good feel for how the referee is calling the game and even then i would hesitate unless I'm losing and unable to get the ball back. If they are giving out cards even without getting stuck in, I tend to actually go with "Stand Off More" to avoid cards, especially if I'm winning by one goal or we are tied.

7) (Optional if above doesn't do enough of what you want) Use OIs on opposition FBs and/or CBs and possibly even the GK. Specifically mark the positions/players you don't want to get the ball (plus tight marking OI) and set trigger press always on the players you want to try to steal the ball from. Generally the CBs are the weakest technically, so specifically marking the FBs with your outside mids (plus tight marking) to make them a bad choice to pass to and Trigger pressing "always" on the CBs can be effective. If you would prefer they cleared the ball long, you could turn on "Prevent short GK distribution". However, OIs can get you in a lot of trouble if you aren't sure what you are trying to accomplish so I tend to only use a few at most unless I just can't get going in a match and I'm losing. Don't press all defenders plus the GK, have a specific target or two you want to steal the ball from and try to tight mark the other players so that your target is more likely to get the ball if they are passing short in their defense.

Keep in mind a good team will be able to handle the pressure and these settings are going to pull your team out of defensive shape. So if you don't win the ball quickly, you are going to be vulnerable. Also, pressing high will encourage the other team to go more direct; if they have pacy forwards this could be suicidal, especially if your CBs are not very fast. You can help a bit with this by setting "Drop off more", but a high line is just going to be more vulneable to long balls over the top.

[Rashidi]

You aren't asking your team to press high as others have pointed out. If you want to see your team pressing high, you need to play with a high block. Then if you want to see more than one player applying a lot of pressure you also need the defensive line to be higher than the standard dl it is set to now. You could also tell players to step up more to constrict the space the opposition is trying to play through.

Finally those wingbacks on auto will follow the team mentality which is positive, there is a change they may play shorter passes.  I have a 442 that works very well on FM23, and is played both with a mid block and a high block, but I will opt to use regroup when I am seeking to control the game after taking a lead and seeking to see the game out.

What i have suggested is in reference to you saying you are "high pressing" when you are really on pressing on max intensity but hot doing a "high press"

[ElJefe4]

Definitely need to up the defensive line and pressing instructions.

Be prepared to be frustrated anyway though, I'm messing around with a Barcelona save and trying to press high in a 433. Sometimes players, despite TIs and being instructed to mark individual players/positions, decide to wander off into the middle of nowhere and give the opposition an easy route out. Look at Raphina here, any chance of being remotely in your position so the left back hasn't got 40 yards of space!?

[(sic)]

7 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

Definitely need to up the defensive line and pressing instructions.

Be prepared to be frustrated anyway though, I'm messing around with a Barcelona save and trying to press high in a 433. Sometimes players, despite TIs and being instructed to mark individual players/positions, decide to wander off into the middle of nowhere and give the opposition an easy route out. Look at Raphina here, any chance of being remotely in your position so the left back hasn't got 40 yards of space!?

Basically, pressing (and defending in general) just doesn't work properly in FM, and it never has worked before (though it does seem worse this year). I've seen this happen over and over again in all my saves, so trying to make a high press, that actually does work in any realistic way isn't really possible. You'll often see things like that image above, where players have very questionable positioning. They often don't position themselves properly, meaning they wont be there to intercept/mark/press the opponent when needed.

 

If you want to make a high press, it's absolutely doable. Just don't expect it to have any logic to it or for it to work like it does in real-life, because it won't.

 

Edited January 11, 2023 by (sic)

[_Nutty_]

Thanks guys!

I agree that changes must be made to my tactic to efectively press high up the field. Nonetheless I believe that there's also an issue with the ME. Like I said in the first post, lesser teams have more possession. That does not happen IRL.

Again, thanks!

[The3points]

On 11/01/2023 at 14:04, ElJefe4 said:

Definitely need to up the defensive line and pressing instructions.

Be prepared to be frustrated anyway though, I'm messing around with a Barcelona save and trying to press high in a 433. Sometimes players, despite TIs and being instructed to mark individual players/positions, decide to wander off into the middle of nowhere and give the opposition an easy route out. Look at Raphina here, any chance of being remotely in your position so the left back hasn't got 40 yards of space!?

Is Raphinha manmarking? That's the only sensible explanation for that shape

[ElJefe4]

On 03/02/2023 at 02:02, The3points said:

Is Raphinha manmarking? That's the only sensible explanation for that shape

Nope. Just decided to wander off for some reason.