Defenders (CBs getting no good match rating)

[DAMMO_23]

Especially Ball playing defenders (youll be 3-0 up) 80th min opps had 2 chances both cbs onm a 6.5- usually conceded 90th+ min as standard this year 

 

As such Cbs never get a good rating unless the score and as such never develop?? Any one else noticing this

 

Since the patch this has been a big pet peeve of mine.

 

In both examples below, I have either conceded a Pen which is why the XG is High for the opp or I have dominated and given up less than a .5xg (kinda means the defensive have bossed it) 

 

Match ratings less than 7.0 (6.5 no mistake for kana in one of them) Just doesnt make any sense, another thing broken with this game...................

 

[fc.cadoni]

6.8 is good, 6.5 is ok, 6.2 is time for bench, 7+ is making one the best appearance until next one.

No, it's not broken.

[DAMMO_23]

8 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

6.8 is good, 6.5 is ok, 6.2 is time for bench, 7+ is making one the best appearance until next one.

No, it's not broken.

See i would disagree anything below is a 6.8 is sup par and consider meh to poor form but the game, so i would beg to differ, 6.8 up is okay, just completely disagree how match ratings are done

 

Since this post as well have move to two cbs and getting 6.8+ even while conceding 

[fc.cadoni]

51 minutes ago, DAMMO_23 said:

See i would disagree anything below is a 6.8 is sup par and consider meh to poor form but the game, so i would beg to differ, 6.8 up is okay, just completely disagree how match ratings are done

 

Since this post as well have move to two cbs and getting 6.8+ even while conceding 

You can make feature request how the ratings should be counted then.

https://community.sigames.com/forums/forum/353-football-manager-feature-requests-pcmac/

Otherwise, 6.7 is the standard.

[eXistenZ]

While I cant chip in on the defenders discussion, i do agree that 6.5 and anything below is poor. Even the game agrees, as it will allow you to fine "for a poor performance" with those ratings.

 

My uneducated guess from the screenshots is that in those matches, your defenders didnt have much to do, but when they had to, they screwed it up (hence the only 2 shots on goals from marseille being penalties). personally in my last season defender ratings seemed  fine, although I had the occasional match (usually in the champions league against someone like Bayern) where they completly collapsed.

But thats kind of the nature of the defender role. Play brilliantly for 85 minutes but make a glaring mistake and everybody will remember that last bit. Like how the striker can be **** for the whole game but if he taps in the 89thmin winner, thats all forgiven

 

[DarJ]

Another thing people misunderstand about the rating system is that it depends on the role and how many times they do particular things. A classis example is GK, people often complain that the AI GK seem to be way powerful when they play against them because the usually have low to normal average ratings in other match but against you they always get 7 and above then you go to look at the match and you see that they had 20 shots or more and the GK saved 18 of them but still conceded 3 goals and you will as yourself why he got an average rating of 7.5 when he conceded 3 goals but the game doesn't see it that way, the seem to lean more towards the number of saves.

[enigmatic]

Getting a good rating for a central defender usually means either keeping a clean sheet or winning nearly all their headers (or making a lot of interceptions)

Some defenders (yours, I think...) aren't great in the air but otherwise make few errors. Some defenders will get consistently good ratings for being tall but might have other weaknesses

Ratings are overrated.

[DAMMO_23]

13 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Getting a good rating for a central defender usually means either keeping a clean sheet or winning nearly all their headers (or making a lot of interceptions)

Some defenders (yours, I think...) aren't great in the air but otherwise make few errors. Some defenders will get consistently good ratings for being tall but might have other weaknesses

Ratings are overrated.

hey lads thanks for the input! - Deffs think its just the CB Ball playing defender roll.  Move to CB for the 2nd half of the year and had good match ratings throughout most games.  Do agree height etc matters to the rating.  Seems like for ball playing defenders they need to be making key passes for good ratings. 

(never had this issue on previous fms)  

Ratings are overrated- I agree as long as the pts are on the board <3

(will say i get quiet obsessive with match ratings same way i get obsessive with my squad numbers ha) 

 

[FelixForte]

I’m not sure it works that way, but in principle it would make sense for match ratings of strikers and wingers to be more volatile than for holding midfielders and central defenders. A striker is often perceived to have played a ‘poor’ match if he does not score, while barring any major mistakes, a defender would not be judged on single actions but more on an average of how they’ve played. I suppose for attackers it is, in reality, more often hit or miss than for other positions

[glenjamin]

I'm constantly getting 6.2, 6.3 ratings. Ratings I would associate with shipping 3+ goals or making errors leading to goals but that isn't the case. 

[kingjericho]

You'll hardy have a CB over 6.8 without a goal/assist or a clean sheet.

[Etebaer]

Currently in Tier 4 in germany i get constantly good ratings above 7 for my CDs.

Ofc not every CD, some are at 6,8 (the squad players) some (first team) are at 7,5 avg.

I have wondered how even spread the good ratings are in FM23 compared to older FMs and only the Strikers and some Midefielders stand out for having most goals and assists - even my Goalkeeper is above 7.

Albeit i am in the Top places of the league so success plays for sure a role here.

Edited December 28, 2022 by Etebaer

[DAMMO_23]

5 hours ago, glenjamin said:

I'm constantly getting 6.2, 6.3 ratings. Ratings I would associate with shipping 3+ goals or making errors leading to goals but that isn't the case. 

yeah this is my issue- im getting 6.2-6.5 ratings and the ball playing defender hasnt done anything wrong.  I did find acutall Central defenders worked better for match rating. 

 

5 hours ago, kingjericho said:

You'll hardy have a CB over 6.8 without a goal/assist or a clean sheet.

Yeah i find this as well if they dont score or assist even with a clean sheet it will be a 7.2-6.8,  No asking for oh clean sheet he should get a 9 but 7.5-8 would be nice.  

 

4 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Currently in Tier 4 in germany i get constantly good ratings above 7 for my CDs.

Ofc not every CD, some are at 6,8 (the squad players) some (first team) are at 7,5 avg.

I have wondered how even spread the good ratings are in FM23 compared to older FMs and only the Strikers and some Midefielders stand out for having most goals and assists - even my Goalkeeper is above 7.

Albeit i am in the Top places of the league so success plays for sure a role here.

yeah success does indeed,  what roles you using for the back 4 and the gk (or back 5/3)

 

[Etebaer]

SK - WB,CD,CD,WB

SK - Support

CD - Defend

WB - Attack

My best CD has a 7,6 the worst a 6,8 the WBs are between 7,2 and 6,8 also, the SK is at 7,2 while the Backup is, aah, he has not yet played and only a 6,8 from internationals.

High defense, pressing, trap inside, stop crossing.

WBs are very fast - CDs especially supreme in the Air and quite fast.

The only place i use sometimes a single slow player is in the midfield when he is a very good captain (mostly bcs they are of age and have slowed down).

People underestimate the role a good captain plays in the success of a team and the midfield is an excellent position for a captain bcs there he is involed in any phase of the game and able to do the "captain things" as i call them.

The things above and beyond the normal capability of a player that sometimes decide between become a champion or a runner up...(or stay in the league).

Edited December 29, 2022 by Etebaer

[glenjamin]

I feel part of the issue of low ratings could be attributed to % of aerial duels won. And that % is not just down to a defensive aerial duels but also when attacking corners or other set pieces. 

[Neil Brock]

Definitely worth raising here with examples of when a ball playing CB gets a low rating when their stats suggest they shouldn't - https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2023-bugs-tracker/753_match-engine-ai-and-tactics/

Bear in mind different roles are judged differently under player ratings, so possession/passing stats will be judged heavier than a standard CB role. So if a ball playing CB has very little of the ball or inaccurate passes that will hurt their rating. 

[DAMMO_23]

11 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Definitely worth raising here with examples of when a ball playing CB gets a low rating when their stats suggest they shouldn't - https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2023-bugs-tracker/753_match-engine-ai-and-tactics/

Bear in mind different roles are judged differently under player ratings, so possession/passing stats will be judged heavier than a standard CB role. So if a ball playing CB has very little of the ball or inaccurate passes that will hurt their rating. 

thanks neil, will upload a bug tracker when im home as im away for new years now.  (going to have Fm withdrawals). 

[numbas2]

I’m having this issue too I’ve been through a lot of DC’s now and I can’t explain their poor ratings. Fine I do well but you still have to manage an individuals poor performances and media attention etc. I’ve reviewed statistics and cannot work it out. 
 

In my book 6.8 is barely acceptable. They’re getting 6.85 average over a season but that’s a lot of very poor match ratings 6.3-6.6 matches. 

[woolymuffler]

Somewhat unrelated (but still possible issue with center backs), has anyone else been having huge fatigue issues with specifically central defenders? They seem to tire more quickly than any other position on my teams. In previous FMs I almost never had to sub them unless they were playing poorly or injured. Never having them get tired was probably not realistic, but it seems to have gone to the other extreme.

It could very well be my tactics though; I hate giving away penalties so I tend to "stay on feet" and "drop off more" which probably makes them work harder than many tactics. Not sure.

[Etebaer]

Yeah, my defenders belong unlike older FMs to the more fatigued players thought they have also often less stamina than other players.

And in regard to the avg matchrating it seems air superiority is very helpful - it seems to me heading challenges occur more often than in older FMs.

I almost allways regret when i have to sub in a player that is weaker in heading in the defense.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Etebaer

[phnompenhandy]

5 hours ago, woolymuffler said:

Somewhat unrelated (but still possible issue with center backs), has anyone else been having huge fatigue issues with specifically central defenders? They seem to tire more quickly than any other position on my teams. In previous FMs I almost never had to sub them unless they were playing poorly or injured. Never having them get tired was probably not realistic, but it seems to have gone to the other extreme.

It could very well be my tactics though; I hate giving away penalties so I tend to "stay on feet" and "drop off more" which probably makes them work harder than many tactics. Not sure.

Yes. It happens for the first season or so in a lower league save before gradually reducing. Two possible reasons for me are (1) playing a high d-line meaning they run up and down more than if the d-line was lower, and (2) daveincid's mods.

[woolymuffler]

Interesting; I tend to actually play a lower line unless I am trailing and unable to get the ball and I'm not using Daveincid's files on my current save. I also haven't noticed it getting any better but I'm admittedly only a couple of years into my current save, so I'll see how it does going forward.

[dieu]

I play with two BPDs in my tactic and they both have an avrage rating well above 7. I have not noticed anything wrong with  the ratings in my save.

It may be a tactical/personell issue since a switch to DC improved their rating? Could it be that your PBD is a poor passer or has poor vision/decisions? If they try and miss a high amount of risky passes that may hurt their rating?