For those who play lower leagues - has there been ANY changes for the better?

[rristola]

All you lower leagues fans, has SI made any improvements?

[dℍaisa]

Nope, on the other hand there is this one new  bug (  non vanilla dbs) that got introduced in FM23..

 

 

[phnompenhandy]

For me, the improvements in the match engine make the game feel more realistic at this level.

There are loads of FM23 lower league series on YouTube if you want to actually see for yourself.

[phnompenhandy]

Here's a guy who's already put '00s of hours on lower league saves

The Top 3 BEST CHANGES in FM23

[Etebaer]

I play the german lower league from Tier 6 upward and so far i enjoy the ride.

The scouting budget is no trouble, simply move the max of it to the transfer budget and only scout in the transfer windows and disable scouting outside of it.

Also get rid of any youth player that is unable to play in your first team (if there is any good 15yr old you can keep one or two of them).

Spend no more than ~1000k p.a. on any staff member, ~500€ on Scouts and around ~600€ on Physios (per job).

You can use the second job contract clause also and make coaches scouts etc as training has not that much effect in the lower leagues for a lack of training sessions.

Speed and athletics is King, then technical ability and then mental ability.

Its all about not getting bancrupt on your way up so loan as many good players as you can for as little to no wage as possible - i had sometimes players stay 4 years on loan with me (via 2 season loans and prolonging).

Grab in the first season as many good players as you can as early as you can or you lose the "team ability reputation race" which either gives or prevents access to better players if you beat other team in good transfers or they beat you - its all about getting stronger compared to your competititon and good players flock to good players!

Reap the rewards!

Edited December 26, 2022 by Etebaer

[iGoldenBen]

On 26/12/2022 at 15:13, Etebaer said:

I play the german lower league from Tier 6 upward and so far i enjoy the ride.

The scouting budget is no trouble, simply move the max of it to the transfer budget and only scout in the transfer windows and disable scouting outside of it.

Also get rid of any youth player that is unable to play in your first team (if there is any good 15yr old you can keep one or two of them).

Spend no more than ~1000k p.a. on any staff member, ~500€ on Scouts and around ~600€ on Physios (per job).

You can use the second job contract clause also and make coaches scouts etc as training has not that much effect in the lower leagues for a lack of training sessions.

Speed and athletics is King, then technical ability and then mental ability.

Its all about not getting bancrupt on your way up so loan as many good players as you can for as little to no wage as possible - i had sometimes players stay 4 years on loan with me (via 2 season loans and prolonging).

Grab in the first season as many good players as you can as early as you can or you lose the "team ability reputation race" which either gives or prevents access to better players if you beat other team in good transfers or they beat you - its all about getting stronger compared to your competititon and good players flock to good players!

Reap the rewards!

Ye but adjusting the scouting budget to wage budget breaks the immersion, no lower league team in the 9th or 10th tier would be able to do that

[jcp1417]

Every year I play a lower league (Vanarama North/South and sometimes lower with a custom game file). This year does seem better because of the match engine upgrades. The game does feel better at that level. That's about it though

[Etebaer]

vor 23 Stunden schrieb iGoldenBen:

Ye but adjusting the scouting budget to wage budget breaks the immersion, no lower league team in the 9th or 10th tier would be able to do that

Why?

You have some budget authority granted by the board and the finances seem at least for my team reasonable.

Ofc i dont know the situation in your leage but some finances should be available and do you not act in the scope of authorization by the board?

Edited January 15, 2023 by Etebaer

[rristola]

On 14/01/2023 at 17:15, iGoldenBen said:

no lower league team in the 9th or 10th tier would be able to do that

 

And that is just the case here, the less money for wages aso., the less money fot scouting. Balanced.

I am now managing an amateur team with wage budget 0, transfer budget 0, and still - scoutind budget about 20k... That's unbalanced!

 

I have made a request that poor teams could have scouting budget 0, BUT at the same time "local" scouting area would be changed as no-cost zone.

[iGoldenBen]

10 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Why?

You have some budget authority granted by the board and the finances seem at least for my team reasonable.

Ofc i dont know the situation in your leage but some finances should be available and do you not act in the scope of authorization by the board?

Come on a 100k scouting budget is nowhere near reasonable for such a team, and increasing wages by 600-700 a week is also immersion breaking 

Edited January 16, 2023 by iGoldenBen

[phnompenhandy]

55 minutes ago, iGoldenBen said:

Come on a 100k scouting budget is nowhere near reasonable for such a team, and increasing wages by 600-700 a week is also immersion breaking 

I always use the IGE to change the scouting (and transfer budget if any) to £0

[Dreambuilder]

4 hours ago, iGoldenBen said:

Come on a 100k scouting budget is nowhere near reasonable for such a team, and increasing wages by 600-700 a week is also immersion breaking 

Some lower league clubs have rich owners or supports who often are businessmen and pump money into their favourite clubs. I have no problem painting that picture

[Etebaer]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb iGoldenBen:

Come on a 100k scouting budget is nowhere near reasonable for such a team, and increasing wages by 600-700 a week is also immersion breaking 

Well, i remember a time in the 1980s and a guy i did know from Fooball wanted to become president in a lower league club.

His motivation was not honorable bcs he wanted to do it as the club was financially excellent situated as it had many friends and patrons and sponsors that gave money to it.

It was a Tier 5 Club at that time and the president alone would have had a budget of 50k to spend on his discretion.

Gladly for the club the presidency got to another person and the guy i mentioned was going to Jail some years later for fraud with car insurances.

There are Clubs in each league that are richer than others or poorer than others.

 

In 2020 Amateur Clubs in germany have spend almost 40k as anual budget and an an anual income of ~39k p.a in avg.

Ofc players get additional money from Sponsors and Patrons that do not appear in he club budget like signing fees or Jobs at full wage they only partially work in if at all.

The expenses in FM23 for low league amateur clubs are way higher than in reality so the finances need to be adjusted by the same amount.

Imho reality is a matter of balancing the numbers so that they make sense in regard to the expenses you have in the game and the other clubs in your league and these expenses are lets say 300k p.a. for all the stuff (i assume that bcs i made 100k profit in my first year in Tier 6 with ~300k sponsoring and maybe 50k matchday and other income).

That means your expenses ingame are ten times the expenses in reality so you must generate ten time the income to have it make sense.

And the scouting budget adjustments is one tool that helps you to make numbers that make no sense to numbers that are at least sensible balanced (ten times higher budget vs ten times higher expenses)!

And my wage was 60k or so for that year...bcs the wages are to high a well, a german amateur kicker gets 250 to 1000 Euro p.a. from the club in avg. and not per game like in FM23.

 

Ofc each Tier higher in the lower leagues means doubling the wages until you get into the pro leagues so at some point the budgets become more close to realism than in the lowest tiers.

In 3.Liga where i currently sit my Club is the poorest with 400k sponsoreing income, ~1800 paying Fans per Matchday in my new 5131 seater stadium (i guess it is all seats) and 730k p.a. wages and i make a financial loss of 500k p.a. and be close to administration bcs my  club was forced to build a new stadium according to 3.Liga rules as the 2000 people stadium was not good enough but i do not get the income to pay the bill for it.

Player transfer sales are extremely bad as my reputation is low and the transfer fees are most like 10 to 20k and only 1 players, the best striker i ever had,  went for 130k (and tenfolds in value bcs of the reputation of the other club), that happens not even every year but every 3 to 5 years and the only thing keeping me afloat is the cup where i get 200k or 300k from the DFB Pokal when i win the Amateur Cup and qualify for the Big Boys Cup Trophy.

The only longterm solution is to win promotion bcs it is still 5 more years with the stadium credit and i can only make 2 or 3 more years until i am done financially when i stay in the league.

Which is quite real in a sense the 3.Liga germany is the league of financial death and quite some clubs have found their graveyard there bcs the income is to low compared to the efforts and spending the regulations enforce upon you.

This year it may happen that promotion is possible - only 1 year 2.Bundesliga will solve all my financial trouble bcs you get 20 times more money there - the TV money from 1 season will pay off the new stadium!

 

PS: 3.Liga TV Money is 900k to 1000k p.a. per Club that is not a reserve club. 

In 2.Bundesliga it is around 12 Million p.a. plus success rewards and way higher ticket prices and more visitors etc.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Etebaer

[autohoratio]

14 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Well, i remember a time in the 1980s and a guy i did know from Fooball wanted to become president in a lower league club.

His motivation was not honorable bcs he wanted to do it as the club was financially excellent situated as it had many friends and patrons and sponsors that gave money to it.

It was a Tier 5 Club at that time and the president alone would have had a budget of 50k to spend on his discretion.

Gladly for the club the presidency got to another person and the guy i mentioned was going to Jail some years later for fraud with car insurances.

There are Clubs in each league that are richer than others or poorer than others.

 

In 2020 Amateur Clubs in germany have spend almost 40k as anual budget and an an anual income of ~39k p.a in avg.

Ofc players get additional money from Sponsors and Patrons that do not appear in he club budget like signing fees or Jobs at full wage they only partially work in if at all.

The expenses in FM23 for low league amateur clubs are way higher than in reality so the finances need to be adjusted by the same amount.

Imho reality is a matter of balancing the numbers so that they make sense in regard to the expenses you have in the game and the other clubs in your league and these expenses are lets say 300k p.a. for all the stuff (i assume that bcs i made 100k profit in my first year in Tier 6 with ~300k sponsoring and maybe 50k matchday and other income).

That means your expenses ingame are ten times the expenses in reality so you must generate ten time the income to have it make sense.

And the scouting budget adjustments is one tool that helps you to make numbers that make no sense to numbers that are at least sensible balanced (ten times higher budget vs ten times higher expenses)!

And my wage was 60k or so for that year...bcs the wages are to high a well, a german amateur kicker gets 250 to 1000 Euro p.a. from the club in avg. and not per game like in FM23.

 

Ofc each Tier higher in the lower leagues means doubling the wages until you get into the pro leagues so at some point the budgets become more close to realism than in the lowest tiers.

In 3.Liga where i currently sit my Club is the poorest with 400k sponsoreing income, ~1800 paying Fans per Matchday in my new 5131 seater stadium (i guess it is all seats) and 730k p.a. wages and i make a financial loss of 500k p.a. and be close to administration bcs my  club was forced to build a new stadium according to 3.Liga rules as the 2000 people stadium was not good enough but i do not get the income to pay the bill for it.

Player transfer sales are extremely bad as my reputation is low and the transfer fees are most like 10 to 20k and only 1 players, the best striker i ever had,  went for 130k (and tenfolds in value bcs of the reputation of the other club), that happens not even every year but every 3 to 5 years and the only thing keeping me afloat is the cup where i get 200k or 300k from the DFB Pokal when i win the Amateur Cup and qualify for the Big Boys Cup Trophy.

The only longterm solution is to win promotion bcs it is still 5 more years with the stadium credit and i can only make 2 or 3 more years until i am done financially when i stay in the league.

Which is quite real in a sense the 3.Liga germany is the league of financial death and quite some clubs have found their graveyard there bcs the income is to low compared to the efforts and spending the regulations enforce upon you.

This year it may happen that promotion is possible - only 1 year 2.Bundesliga will solve all my financial trouble bcs you get 20 times more money there - the TV money from 1 season will pay off the new stadium!

 

PS: 3.Liga TV Money is 900k to 1000k p.a. per Club that is not a reserve club. 

In 2.Bundesliga it is around 12 Million p.a. plus success rewards and way higher ticket prices and more visitors etc.

If you have any sources for the lower league/amateur team finances you mentioned it would be great if you could post them as either a bug report or feature request (not sure which it would fall under) so SI are aware of it, and hopefully make in-game finances more realistic for teams at that level

[iGoldenBen]

15 hours ago, Etebaer said:

Well, i remember a time in the 1980s and a guy i did know from Fooball wanted to become president in a lower league club.

His motivation was not honorable bcs he wanted to do it as the club was financially excellent situated as it had many friends and patrons and sponsors that gave money to it.

It was a Tier 5 Club at that time and the president alone would have had a budget of 50k to spend on his discretion.

Gladly for the club the presidency got to another person and the guy i mentioned was going to Jail some years later for fraud with car insurances.

There are Clubs in each league that are richer than others or poorer than others.

 

In 2020 Amateur Clubs in germany have spend almost 40k as anual budget and an an anual income of ~39k p.a in avg.

Ofc players get additional money from Sponsors and Patrons that do not appear in he club budget like signing fees or Jobs at full wage they only partially work in if at all.

The expenses in FM23 for low league amateur clubs are way higher than in reality so the finances need to be adjusted by the same amount.

Imho reality is a matter of balancing the numbers so that they make sense in regard to the expenses you have in the game and the other clubs in your league and these expenses are lets say 300k p.a. for all the stuff (i assume that bcs i made 100k profit in my first year in Tier 6 with ~300k sponsoring and maybe 50k matchday and other income).

That means your expenses ingame are ten times the expenses in reality so you must generate ten time the income to have it make sense.

And the scouting budget adjustments is one tool that helps you to make numbers that make no sense to numbers that are at least sensible balanced (ten times higher budget vs ten times higher expenses)!

And my wage was 60k or so for that year...bcs the wages are to high a well, a german amateur kicker gets 250 to 1000 Euro p.a. from the club in avg. and not per game like in FM23.

 

Ofc each Tier higher in the lower leagues means doubling the wages until you get into the pro leagues so at some point the budgets become more close to realism than in the lowest tiers.

In 3.Liga where i currently sit my Club is the poorest with 400k sponsoreing income, ~1800 paying Fans per Matchday in my new 5131 seater stadium (i guess it is all seats) and 730k p.a. wages and i make a financial loss of 500k p.a. and be close to administration bcs my  club was forced to build a new stadium according to 3.Liga rules as the 2000 people stadium was not good enough but i do not get the income to pay the bill for it.

Player transfer sales are extremely bad as my reputation is low and the transfer fees are most like 10 to 20k and only 1 players, the best striker i ever had,  went for 130k (and tenfolds in value bcs of the reputation of the other club), that happens not even every year but every 3 to 5 years and the only thing keeping me afloat is the cup where i get 200k or 300k from the DFB Pokal when i win the Amateur Cup and qualify for the Big Boys Cup Trophy.

The only longterm solution is to win promotion bcs it is still 5 more years with the stadium credit and i can only make 2 or 3 more years until i am done financially when i stay in the league.

Which is quite real in a sense the 3.Liga germany is the league of financial death and quite some clubs have found their graveyard there bcs the income is to low compared to the efforts and spending the regulations enforce upon you.

This year it may happen that promotion is possible - only 1 year 2.Bundesliga will solve all my financial trouble bcs you get 20 times more money there - the TV money from 1 season will pay off the new stadium!

 

PS: 3.Liga TV Money is 900k to 1000k p.a. per Club that is not a reserve club. 

In 2.Bundesliga it is around 12 Million p.a. plus success rewards and way higher ticket prices and more visitors etc.

I get that but we're talking about the 9th/10th tier of football, of course individual teams will vary in financial clout, but non vanilla databases need to be set a default minimum, then database creators can edit the teams that need to be edited. 

Also Germany offers much more income comparatively to leagues at a similair level from sponsors, matchday and competition income 

Edited January 16, 2023 by iGoldenBen

[iGoldenBen]

19 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

I always use the IGE to change the scouting (and transfer budget if any) to £0

I might do that myself then if the IGE is capable of doing that, just paying for an IGE doesn't seem right when the game should already have it sorted. 

[phnompenhandy]

5 hours ago, iGoldenBen said:

I might do that myself then if the IGE is capable of doing that, just paying for an IGE doesn't seem right when the game should already have it sorted. 

Yeh, it's easy with the IGE. I use it to 'fix' things in the game like this that spoil my immersion. The way I see it, the game isn't perfect, but it's fantastic value for money given the hundreds of  hours I spend on it, and the IGE isn't really expensive either.

[Etebaer]

vor 10 Stunden schrieb autohoratio:

If you have any sources for the lower league/amateur team finances you mentioned it would be great if you could post them as either a bug report or feature request (not sure which it would fall under) so SI are aware of it, and hopefully make in-game finances more realistic for teams at that level

I have only the general number out of an german news article that was about payments in the amateur leagues and it mentioned these numbers.

Was verdienen Amateurfußballer? So viel Geld fließt in der 6. Liga - Sportbuzzer.de

Hope you can read german or  the translator works well...

[Etebaer]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb iGoldenBen:

Also Germany offers much more income comparatively to leagues at a similair level from sponsors, matchday and competition income 

The 1.Bundesliga may do well but it is in decline, the 2.Bundesliga you can live from but 3.Liga is a financial disaster as is any amateur league as the expenses surpass the income especially since the C-issue.

There is no trickling down, there is trickling up!

And the pro fottball is the vampire of the amateur football in germany that do not participate for an obscure contract clause in any income increase as there is an upper limit set not in percent of income but in an absolute number and the DFB who is the association for the amateur clubs and should act as agent for them sold them out to the pro football teams while they also have less matchday income as the pro football started to cover all amateur football dates and hours and the model you go to your club, play amateur foootball and then watch pro sport after or before your match no longer works and the players and visitors fade away from amateur football.

German football is way over romantisized for a fraction of the clubs have a good life at the cost of the amateurs bleeding dry by competing with them for matchdates and visitors and not handing out the appropriate money to compensate for that!

Edited January 17, 2023 by Etebaer