Coulthard's Jaw Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 I... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 He's being paid by Qatar. That's all you need to know 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Cartman Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Has anyone pointed out he doesn't remember any dissenters because he wasn't born for another 27 years? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 He was very strange on a Football Weekly where he was answering questions on his book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted November 30, 2022 Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 33 minutes ago, Peter G said: He's being paid by Qatar. That's all you need to know Of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 What part of him thinks the Hitler comparison is a remotely good argument? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Youd think someone who spent his life being bombarded by racism wouldnt be such a ****. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 "It's not about defending Qatar" Spends many tweets defending Qatar. Paid Shill. Pathetic man. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallen Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 What point is he trying to make in the first one? Is it really as stupid as it sounds? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pukey Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 9 minutes ago, Smallen said: What point is he trying to make in the first one? Is it really as stupid as it sounds? "They're nicer than Hitler, look, they're not even murdering people!" I think is meant to be the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Smallen said: What point is he trying to make in the first one? Is it really as stupid as it sounds? He's trying to say that we wouldn't stand up to the big countries (like Nazi Germany...and Russia right now?!?) but instead only pick on little old helpless Qatar. I think. Edited November 30, 2022 by ginnybob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Sandman Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Heh, I am for one glad qatar doesn't have lgbt concentration camps and invades areas to spread a one world philosophy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: I... He's a homophobic prat. He revealed himself as a homophobic prat on celebrity big brother. I don't know why people are surprised he's a homophobic prat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Ackter said: Youd think someone who spent his life being bombarded by racism wouldnt be such a ****. That would require him to have compassion and care about other minorities. He's a bigot that only cares about his own personal fight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Smallen said: What point is he trying to make in the first one? Is it really as stupid as it sounds? "Gays should shut up and know their place." Basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Ackter said: Youd think someone who spent his life being bombarded by racism wouldnt be such a ****. John Barnes has always been a wrong un. Even his views on racism are more often wrong and annoying or many times despicable. He thinks because he is a minority, he will get away with blatant homophobia. Another person I hope would become irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, Confused Clarity said: He's a homophobic prat. He revealed himself as a homophobic prat on celebrity big brother. I don't know why people are surprised he's a homophobic prat. Because noone watches big brother. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Citizen Kane said: Heh, I am for one glad qatar doesn't have lgbt concentration camps and invades areas to spread a one world philosophy That's actually a better argument than the one John Barnes made... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopOnBaby Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 hours ago, The_jagster said: He was very strange on a Football Weekly where he was answering questions on his book. Very much this, and for those who haven't had the pleasure, here you go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Devils advocate a bit here but... he's not wrong. And this is what a lot of people in other countries see as an issue, whether you like it or not. British culture spent so long treating others like lesser people throughout history that it comes across as massively hypocritical that reparations for past misdeeds are not met, yet the willingness to lecture morality is given so freely without adequate acknowledgement. Now, it can be possible that you can be right now and wrong in the past, but to the peoples being lectured you've got to go a bit further for hundreds if years of mistreatment than to just brush it off as 'sorry, but look at our point now'. If you want to bring Islamic cultures into line with modern values you won't do it by shaming them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Divinity said: Devils advocate a bit here but... he's not wrong. And this is what a lot of people in other countries see as an issue, whether you like it or not. British culture spent so long treating others like lesser people throughout history that it comes across as massively hypocritical that reparations for past misdeeds are not met, yet the willingness to lecture morality is given so freely without adequate acknowledgement. Now, it can be possible that you can be right now and wrong in the past, but to the peoples being lectured you've got to go a bit further for hundreds if years of mistreatment than to just brush it off as 'sorry, but look at our point now'. If you want to bring Islamic cultures into line with modern values you won't do it by shaming them. You can be right and go about it the wrong way. That would be the best case scenario for what Barnes just did. In reality, he is wrong and going about it the wrong way. He offers no alternative solutions for dialogue, he makes an insulting and offensive comparison in order to reduce the perception of Qatars wrongs. Finally, he puts ALL onus and focus on those doing the lecturing. I actually agree with you that the western worlds hypocrisy is laughable when they try to then be holier than thou at other nations, but the alternative is for them to keep quiet and say nothing. This actually risks those same western nations slowly slipping backwards due to apathy. The world is global now and we need to fight for LGBTQ+ rights as much as possible regardless of what would/could have transpired in (insert false comparative time in history). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weezer Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I’m not even sure of the point he’s making tbh but I do think that Qatar is getting a lot more ‘stick’ than other countries that have done equally worse things at the moment. I haven’t spoken to many locals while I’ve been out here but I do know that the rest of the world, even the nations most effected by Qatar’s attitude to migrant workers, really don’t give as much of a **** about it as us prominent Western nations. To them it’s just another World Cup and they’re not interested in the West’s handwringing and some are even bemused by it. But who knows, maybe I’ve drank the Kool Aid because I’m here and I’m slowly getting used to it so I’m not 100% impartial any more. All the authoritarian stuff is hidden from view here, it isn’t a hell hole and men and women alike are all very happy. You can get a drink in licensed bars, female tourists are walking around with their shoulders out and not getting harassed, drunks and gays are not being arrested and beaten on the streets. A lot of people that don’t read Western media or participate on left leaning internet forums like this probably turn up and think “what’s the problem, Doha looks like a great place?” And probably also have similarly terrible stuff going on at home anyway. Similarly, people like Barnes and Beckham that have been paid by Qatar are going to wonder where all the hostility comes from when they’ve been shown nothing but a warm welcome in these places. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I am not sure what point Barnes is trying to make but from my point of view it really looks like a big PR excersise from some Western countries. They want to get good PR without actually doing anything. And then there is an issue, that different and completely unrelated issues are being grouped together. Worker rights and lgbt rights should not be brought together as one is country(ies) specific and is political, and another is global and mostly economics related. It is pathetic how gay people are being treated there. Definitely it is so and developed countries should help them. But those armbands or flags will not help them at all. If you want to help them, make a law that they are free to relocate to your countries and that they will get some help to start their lives there. That is a real action, which will actually help them to be safe. Worker rights is a different topic and it should not be even discussed in relation to the WC as it is such a huge and global issue but completely unrelated. That is how the vast majority of the worlds population is living ffs. For those workers who went there, that is a actually a better opprotunity than they could get elsewhere. And there is no easy or quick solution to it at all. And certainly just words about it from the previliged insanely rich (by standards of those workers) people doesn't help at all. Again, allowing them to go and work freely in UK would massively help them and it will give competitions to "Qatars" and in turn they will have to improve the work conditions themselves. But those are real actions, which will mean that people from developed countries will have to actually do something and give away some of their own benefits. And that's not even a topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Quote Worker rights is a different topic and it should not be even discussed in relation to the WC as it is such a huge and global issue but completely unrelated. F Its hardly completely unrelated when the workers in question built the stadiums Quote For those workers who went there, that is a actually a better opprotunity than they could get elsewhere Ah, the old sweatshop justification of 'its okay if we totally abuse the power dynamic here and treat people like **** while paying them a pittance, because its better than what they might have had otherwise' Quote And there is no easy or quick solution to it at all. I mean there is, it would just require everyone that wants more money and more power to change to focusing on empathy instead. In the meantime, we should keep calling them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Weezer said: maybe I’ve drank the Kool Aid Seems like it. Edited December 1, 2022 by Rafalution Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, outlander said: And certainly just words about it from the previliged insanely rich (by standards of those workers) people doesn't help at all. Are you talking about the west, or the Qatari government? Edited December 1, 2022 by Coulthard's Jaw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 8 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: Are you talking about the west, or the Qatari government? For those workers that is both. Like I think everyone from this thread would be considered as a "privileged rich" persons. And many would be insanely tich for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius1998 Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Weezer said: even the nations most effected by Qatar’s attitude to migrant workers, really don’t give as much of a **** about it Can't speak from experience about the rest but this bit is definitely true. Most people here in India or in Nepal/Bangladesh don't really care. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf_pd Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 hours ago, Weezer said: I’m not even sure of the point he’s making tbh but I do think that Qatar is getting a lot more ‘stick’ than other countries that have done equally worse things at the moment. You could compare news about Qatar before they became the host and after and it would be a fair assesment. The World Cup and the selection of the host put Qatar in the spotlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Rafalution said: I mean there is, it would just require everyone that wants more money and more power to change to focusing on empathy instead. In the meantime, we should keep calling them out. That is exactly what I meant. How about helping those people affected instead of calling someone out? Or, even better help them and call out the opressors. It would help those people much more if UK government allowed them to go to the UK and work/live there and give them some benefits for the first few years. So, it would help much more if people were calling UK government out for not helping those people. It is not allowed to be gay there, right? And the people can go to prison for it, right? Surely, noone with empathy would vote for any UK party/person, which is not supporting helping gay people from such countries to relocate to the UK. UK is just an example, it applies to any country. Any country, which doesn't let those people relocate to them freely has no empathy. Edited December 1, 2022 by outlander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_jagster Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I don't really like that argument - should countries have offered to repatriate black or coloured people in South Africa while the apartheid system was in place and let the politicians do as they wished? Rather than put pressure on the country to change their discriminatory practices? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafalution Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 I'm all for the UK government allowing anyone who risks persecution in any country due to being gay to be able to come and live here. But the UK government not doing so isn't the root of the problem, the bigotry and oppression of these nations is. As jagster said, we should be putting pressure on these countries to change. Preventative action is better than the cure as always. Can we do both? Yes. But its much easier to get everyone on board with focusing pressure when its a singular event like a WC than getting everyone to write to their MP about asylum issues Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 27 minutes ago, Rafalution said: I'm all for the UK government allowing anyone who risks persecution in any country due to being gay to be able to come and live here. But the UK government not doing so isn't the root of the problem, the bigotry and oppression of these nations is. As jagster said, we should be putting pressure on these countries to change. Preventative action is better than the cure as always. Can we do both? Yes. But its much easier to get everyone on board with focusing pressure when its a singular event like a WC than getting everyone to write to their MP about asylum issues Presssure - yes. But to put pressure you need to do some actions. Like real actions. Sanctions, limiting diplomatic relations, not doing any business deals on a government level etc. A message is not an action. For me, as I said originally, it's just a PR stunt without any action and without putting any pressure on them to change. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
InigoPatinkin Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 24 minutes ago, outlander said: Presssure - yes. But to put pressure you need to do some actions. Like real actions. Sanctions, limiting diplomatic relations, not doing any business deals on a government level etc. A message is not an action. For me, as I said originally, it's just a PR stunt without any action and without putting any pressure on them to change. I think the biggest problem with this is I'm not the UK government, I'd like them to have limited diplomatic and trade relations with every country who still employs the death penalty or oppresses minorities. I'll continue to vote in ways that make that outcome more likely. Unless it's members of the UK government doing it, it's not a PR campaign. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 On 30/11/2022 at 17:43, ginnybob said: He's trying to say that we wouldn't stand up to the big countries (like Nazi Germany...and Russia right now?!?) but instead only pick on little old helpless Qatar. I think. Is there not an element of truth in that then? Let's see if there's the same level of political push-back in 2026. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, brett.spurs said: Is there not an element of truth in that then? Let's see if there's the same level of political push-back in 2026. What equivalents are there in 2026? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 What political push back has there been to 2022? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, ginnybob said: What equivalents are there in 2026? Well, we're all for human rights and in 2026 the World Cup is being [co]-hosted by a country that clearly scores very low on that front. I mean what more basic human right is there than to be able to live your life without worrying that some **** is going to shoot you at any second. Clearly they aren't going to do anything about it so I guess it's up to us push for change. I just hope those who have stood against and boycotted this World Cup don't suddenly lose their voice. Edited December 1, 2022 by brett.spurs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Moores Mum Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, brett.spurs said: Well, we're all for human rights and in 2026 the World Cup is being [co]-hosted by a country that clearly scores very low on that front. I mean what more basic human right is there than to be able to live your life without worrying that some **** is going to shoot you at any second. Clearly they aren't going to do anything about it so I guess it's up to us push for change. I just hope those who have stood against and boycotted this World Cup don't suddenly lose their voice. So a false equivalence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, ginnybob said: So a false equivalence. The only false equivalence is one of those countries is among the most powerful on the planet, while the other is barely a blip on the map. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwig Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 Not sure how anyone can say we don’t stand up to Russia right now when we’ve done far more against Russia than we have against Qatar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 It's brett.spurs, he's a bit dodgy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confused Clarity Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 22 minutes ago, Ackter said: It's brett.spurs, he's a bit dodgy. More than a bit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 33 minutes ago, Ackter said: It's brett.spurs, he's a bit dodgy. More or less than your search history? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Lucas Posted December 1, 2022 Administrators Share Posted December 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, brett.spurs said: More or less than your search history? Not sure you'd like the answer to that question really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gandy Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 5 hours ago, Lucas said: Not sure you'd like the answer to that question really. I would 🙋🏻♂️ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coulthard's Jaw Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 15 hours ago, brett.spurs said: The only false equivalence is one of those countries is among the most powerful on the planet, while the other is barely a blip on the map. So until the USA gets its house in order, all other countries can act how they want? Kill as many people as they want to get football stadia built? This isn't the great argument you think it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackter Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 13 hours ago, brett.spurs said: More or less than your search history? Way more dodgy. My search history is all porn, D&D, board games and miniature painting. Your history is an example of "Devil's Advocate" being repeatedly used as a way of being scummy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadsheep2001 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 The US have always had a gun problem. But they have a federal government that is actively doing its best to go after it. Brett you brought this up, so if you genuinely cared you'd know this, you'd also know their hands are tied at state levels, they can only really put pressure on at a federal level and even then they are going to struggle a bit with the house reps being red. It's a massive false equivalence because they want to something about it whereas Qatar (and previously Russia) did not hence no political pushback. You complain people have a dog at you, but stuff like this is exactly why. They aren't stupid and see straight through the ********. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said: So until the USA gets its house in order, all other countries can act how they want? Kill as many people as they want to get football stadia built? This isn't the great argument you think it is. 10/10 strawman. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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