Match 17: Cymru vs Iran BBC1 10am GMT LIVE from the Ahmad bin Ali Stadium

[RTHerringbone]

I think Page was guilty of being too loyal to too many, and that too many perhaps understandably clung onto representing Wales when realistically they haven't got anything to contribute any more. 

But man, that was a crap game 

[martinji]

Crikey this discussion going on now is far too kind to Wales.  "With another ref it could have been different", "if this goes in it would have been a different game" etc.

Wales were utterly awful and Iran absolutely deserved their win

[The_jagster]

So if England beat USA, how tasty would an Iran-USA match be with qualification on the line

[afced7]

22 minutes ago, Crispypaul said:

This is why you don't ask football fans anything - from the BBC feed

 

[Pukey]

Real shame we didn't get to hear John Hartson coming up with incredible nonsense during this game, can guarantee he's fuming about the red

[Astafjevs]

1 minute ago, Mr Adam said:

yes but I'd imagine Wales themselves have more faith than you do. And I'm looking at their perspective, not what is likely

What?

I'm looking at it based on the fact that England are good and Wales are ****. That combination rarely, if ever, leads to a 4 goal loss for the good team.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Just now, martinji said:

Crikey this discussion going on now is far too kind to Wales.  "With another ref it could have been different", "if this goes in it would have been a different game" etc.

Wales were utterly awful and Iran absolutely deserved their win

we're all sick of the pro Wales media coverage. really ruins it for the rest of the home nations

[cyclonus1010]

2 minutes ago, Mr Adam said:

Wales need to beat us by 4 goals, rather than 3.

 

[Mickybricks14]

1 minute ago, Pukey said:

Real shame we didn't get to hear John Hartson coming up with incredible nonsense during this game, can guarantee he's fuming about the red

Yeah he didn't even kick him in the face 😂

[Carninho]

Gabby Logan blaming the fixtures now lol

[Tummyowl]

Wales can have no complaints; they were very poor. Mad red card.

[Mr Adam]

4 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

What?

I'm looking at it based on the fact that England are good and Wales are ****. That combination rarely, if ever, leads to a 4 goal loss for the good team.

Yes - but you were responding to me saying Wales won't beat anybody, whereas my entire post was looking at the welsh perspective, and how much that second goal tonight may end up affecting how they approach the final game

They're not sitting in their camp thinking "we will never beat England"

However if they'd lost today 1-0, they'd only need to beat us by 3. But because they lost 2-0, they have to beat us by 4. (this is assuming we draw tonight).

My point was purely that going into a match knowing you have to win is one thing, but even if they found themselves 2-0 up, they'd know they'd need 2 more goals, which is going to feel impossible.

 

SO whilst that 2nd goal tonight is mostly irrelevant, it may end up making their last match feel even harder.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Mr Adam

[error username in use]

Was it Joe Allen who ‘cleared’ it for the first goal, under zero pressure to scuff it along the ground?

Sort of thing you pat a under 9 year old on the head for, as at least they kicked it forwards this time 

Shocking defending from an experienced pro

Edited November 25, 2022 by error username in use

[Big Geordie]

Well deserved, Iran - by far the better side. Wales were utter pish.

[Anaconda Vice]

Haha nice one.

Come knock England out now Keiffer you mug. 

[Darius1998]

Great strike but a better keeper probably saves the first goal. Then again, a better keeper probably doesn't knee Taremi in the face for no reason either.

Allen was pretty crap for the second too. Looked like he had been on for 90 mins instead of 9.

[swansongs]

2 minutes ago, error username in use said:

Was it Joe Allen who ‘cleared’ it for the first goal, under zero pressure to scuff it along the ground?

Sort of thing you pat a under 9 year old on the head for, as at least they kicked it forwards this time 

Shocking defending from an experienced pro

In any normal team he'd have a midfield partner to help out. Our biggest problem under Page is how he puts just 1 in there to be overrun. Almost satisfying to see it cost us.

Almost.

[CFuller]

Loved Azmoun's celebration for the second goal.

Why you little... 

[enigmatic]

11 minutes ago, Astafjevs said:

What?

I'm looking at it based on the fact that England are good and Wales are ****. That combination rarely, if ever, leads to a 4 goal loss for the good team.

We did manage it against Hungary, although I suspect if we'd prioritised keeping the score down rather than trying to get back into the game we might have managed it 

[Mahzun_Savas]

Bale does not contribute enough for a supposed star player. He was completely missing at the start of the game when Wales were pushing forward at times. Moore was getting the ball but there was no Bale to support him.

Ramsey was little better than Bale.

Some suggested Iran were woeful, I don't think that is true and they were clearly the mich better side in this match. I think this highlights how good England were in beating Iran so heavily.

[Mahzun_Savas]

And Wales have no chance against England unless the English players all get food poisoning or something like that. It will be a surprise if the score a goal and they certainly are going to concede a few at least.

[EnterUsernameHere]

2 minutes ago, Mahzun_Savas said:

Bale does not contribute enough for a supposed star player. He was completely missing at the start of the game when Wales were pushing forward at times. Moore was getting the ball but there was no Bale to support him.

Ramsey was little better than Bale.

Some suggested Iran were woeful, I don't think that is true and they were clearly the mich better side in this match. I think this highlights how good England were in beating Iran so heavily.

I don't think Iran are a terrible side, but Wales not beating them shouldn't change the perception of the England result.

Wales are right down there with the worst teams of this tournament. 

[forameuss]

4 minutes ago, Mahzun_Savas said:

Bale does not contribute enough for a supposed star player. He was completely missing at the start of the game when Wales were pushing forward at times. Moore was getting the ball but there was no Bale to support him.

Ramsey was little better than Bale.

Some suggested Iran were woeful, I don't think that is true and they were clearly the mich better side in this match. I think this highlights how good England were in beating Iran so heavily.

But he's a genius isn't he?  Someone came through the back of him against the US and he scored from 12 yards.  Basically Golden Ball stuff.

1 minute ago, Mahzun_Savas said:

And Wales have no chance against England unless the English players all get food poisoning or something like that. It will be a surprise if the score a goal and they certainly are going to concede a few at least.

There's always a chance.  We got that 0-0 draw win at the Euros which was completely against how both sides were playing and went onto play.  There's definitely a chance that Wales could cause them some problems, particularly if England are already through after winning tonight.  But that's like your 1 in 10 stuff that they get a battling 0-0 like we did.  Expecting them to not just win, but win comfortably enough to qualify?  Naaaaaah

Edited November 25, 2022 by forameuss

[Rob1981]

19 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

we're all sick of the pro Wales media coverage. really ruins it for the rest of the home nations

I’ve said this before, but the tone of the Wales coverage is all over the place. On the one hand they don’t want to be written off as the plucky underdogs just making up the numbers. Yet John Hartson talks about scraping a draw with USA like it’s up there with his kids being born.

[Bunkerossian]

Surprised Iran were able to focus on football matters, but their ability to be tough and work hard was always there.

[Ackter]

I slept through it but we're still better than CostaRica, right?

[skybluedave]

4 minutes ago, Ackter said:

I slept through it but we're still better than CostaRica, right?

At Kung Fu kicks yeah

[craigcwwe]

56 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Belgium have to be the most tedious top-tier nation there is.  Constantly near the top of the rankings while never really doing anything to actually threaten to win tournaments.  No boom and bust, just a constant mid-to-high-level droning.

They did knock Brazil out at the 2018 WC tbf though I agree with the overall point made. 

[Gizzy]

Heard a welsh guy on the radio say..

"Its Iran biggest victory since Iron Sheik beat Bob Backlund for the WWF Championship" 

 

[craigcwwe]

[Ackter]

Hennessey, Bale and Ramsay surely going to retire once this is over.

[Baptista_8]

[HoChiKim]

Wales were absolutely terrible today, just so poor and I wanted them to do well too.

Anyway if England win tonight they're through so then a USA draw with Iran would mean a Welsh win against England would see them through.

Also if England win tonight then USA win Vs Iran the Welsh could still go through on goal difference.

Wishing thinking but here's hoping...

[Crispypaul]

53 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

I’ve said this before, but the tone of the Wales coverage is all over the place. On the one hand they don’t want to be written off as the plucky underdogs just making up the numbers. Yet John Hartson talks about scraping a draw with USA like it’s up there with his kids being born.

This is a pretty silly one: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/63696845

Quote

Quote

I think we can take confidence from watching England dismantle them. The boys won't take Iran lightly at all, but that game showed that if you play on the front foot like that, and be positive and dominate possession, then Iran are there for the taking.

 

Ahem.

[Ackter]

Bob Backlund vs Iron Sheikh wasn't at Wrestlemania btw.

[Bootador]

We beat USA tonight, then we just let Wales beat us to qualify.

It's only fair right, Wales always been big supporters of England in international football.

Still might not work with Iran actually capable of winning a game, but thems the breaks.

Edited November 25, 2022 by Bootador

[forameuss]

1 hour ago, Rob1981 said:

I’ve said this before, but the tone of the Wales coverage is all over the place. On the one hand they don’t want to be written off as the plucky underdogs just making up the numbers. Yet John Hartson talks about scraping a draw with USA like it’s up there with his kids being born.

It has been, on the whole, really odd for a number of reasons.  There does seem to be a sort of air of didn't they do well from English media, like they're this adorable cat whose legs don't work too well, but it really doesn't affect them, and they're just so brave for soldiering on.  All a bit patronising really.  And when they're not doing that, it's going way over the top on how brilliant it all is.  How Bale's a genius because he had a US player go through the back of him and scored a penalty.  

I wonder whether it's from seeing the coverage of the Euros from a Scottish perspective.  We had our own coverage, which was equal parts tinpot. cringeworthy and ultimately pretty defeatist.  Do Wales get their own coverage in the country that's a bit more realistic and balanced?  

[Tony85]

21 minutes ago, Bootador said:

We beat USA tonight, then we just let Wales beat us to qualify.

It's only fair right, Wales always been big supporters of England in international football.

Still might not work with Iran actually capable of winning a game, but thems the breaks.

Bollocks to that. I don't think the players will have forgotten the Welsh Euro celebration when England were knocked out.

[PMLF]

1 hour ago, Bootador said:

We beat USA tonight, then we just let Wales beat us to qualify.

It's only fair right, Wales always been big supporters of England in international football.

Still might not work with Iran actually capable of winning a game, but thems the breaks.

I hope Iran qualify though, it will be cool seeing a non-Euro/non-South American in the round of 16.

[Bootador]

Just now, PMLF said:

I hope Iran qualify though, it will be cool seeing a non-Euro/non-South American in the round of 16.

I have no preference really, at a push I'd choose USA but I don't really have any positive/negative feelings about any of them.

[av3ry]

That was not in the script. Wales were supposed to win, we were supposed to win. Then we both play out a draw in the next game to secure safe passage through for the both of us. 

[Mahzun_Savas]

1 minute ago, PMLF said:

I hope Iran qualify though, it will be cool seeing a non-Euro/non-South American in the round of 16.

Iran definitely have a chance to qualify, but so do Japan and Saudi Arabia after their wins. Japan should beat Costa Rica although I guess there is a chance 6 points are not enough in that group because Costa Rica is almost certain to lose their next two games.

[Darius1998]

Japan were so close to making the quarters as well 4 years ago. Only got beaten when Belgium remembered they had some good players.

[PaulHartman71]

1 hour ago, Baptista_8 said:

Hahahaha

[Heartwork]

Ward is like the inverse of Ronaldo - even if the goals weren't his fault and he's only on because of another player's idiocy, he gets the blame whereas if Ronaldo does **** all except impede his team yet scores a pen he's lauded over.

[git2thachoppa]

Loved seeing Iran treat Wales like just another Asian team, this is how they play in their continent when it's not bloody Argentina, Spain, Portugal and England. I'm sure a lot of Welsh thought Iran were minnows who just sit back every game. Forgetting that they are Wales.

Loved seeing Wales knackered after 55 minutes.

Loved forgetting Bale was even on the pitch.

Loved the complaints about the battles and tackling. Many complaining will be the same people that like a good 'British' tackle and want the ref and divers to get on with the game, no doubt. But when it's against them - "wait a minute, you can't do that, that's a yellow!"

Iran's passing and movement is so enjoyable. Such high quality movement to make use of their counter-attack approach. Served them well against Argentina, Spain, Portugal. With the progression of Taremi from false winger to main goal threat, they're no longer about hitting it to the big target man. Not so much, anyway.

Loved Hennessey losing his ****ing mind and going full Cantona. Loved the ref saying even that was just a yellow, get on with it.

And winning it with a no-look long-ranger.

Loved it all.

TOM JONES, CATHERINE ZETA-JONES, RUTH JONES, ALED JONES, JONES JONES, VINNIE JONES, QUINCY JONES - YOUR BOYS TOOK A HELLUVA BEATING

Edited November 25, 2022 by git2thachoppa

[git2thachoppa]

UPDATE: After watching (well skipping through) the whole broadcast on Iplayer, my (not Persian at all) girlfriend wants to watch it too, so we're gonna watch it again FYI.

I'll probably just start it at the Hennessey big boot.

Before the comeback makes them humble.

 

Edited November 25, 2022 by git2thachoppa

[swansongs]

9 hours ago, forameuss said:

It has been, on the whole, really odd for a number of reasons.  There does seem to be a sort of air of didn't they do well from English media, like they're this adorable cat whose legs don't work too well, but it really doesn't affect them, and they're just so brave for soldiering on.  All a bit patronising really.  And when they're not doing that, it's going way over the top on how brilliant it all is.  How Bale's a genius because he had a US player go through the back of him and scored a penalty.  

I wonder whether it's from seeing the coverage of the Euros from a Scottish perspective.  We had our own coverage, which was equal parts tinpot. cringeworthy and ultimately pretty defeatist.  Do Wales get their own coverage in the country that's a bit more realistic and balanced?  

We have the S4C Welsh language programmes. Osian Roberts was on as an expert pundit, that's a man who knows his stuff and really should have been given the job instead of Giggs. 

The media haven't moved on from the "Bale+10" narratives that were accurate back in 2016 qualifying. Neither has Rob Page unfortunately, the whole tournament has been treated like a thank you present to those players who have clung on to places (either starting or filling some hotel rooms). It don't think it's worse than any other situation where TV/radio people have to suddenly talk about teams they don't watch, really. There's not much research or expertise on offer when it comes to teams outside the top 6 and England men's national team (even then...)

Pick a simple story then tell it over and over. That's how pundits/commentators are trained. Wales are a small nation and Bale used to be a world class player. Script writes itself (or does Super Gareth Bale?!?!).

[Ackter]

Iran are atrocious. Wales are just worse.

[Heartwork]