The game is too difficult. Is there plan to fix it in patch?

[SC00P0NE]

6 hours ago, pemell said:

I've played FM and CM since CM2 and I couldn't agree more with OP, who I think explains it very well.

 

It is too hard to succeed these days, you need to be overly active and into details to perform well. Signing a very good assistant manager to help out won't help you achieve any longer.

 

For someone who has a family and a full time job, time is not just there and it just made me quit the game and promise I won't open it again.

 

Very sad to be honest. It's not what it used to be, relaxing and fun.

Well, quite clearly, SI care at the very least about their customer's hardware, so perhaps it is time now to seriously consider difficulty levels too, isn't it? I, for example, just defeated Man City in my UCL group 3:1 at home and managed to get a 1:1 away against them, and dealing with Haaland the entire time was a serious pain in the bee, so I'm obviously quite chuffed that my attempts at micromanaging the big guy, tactically, born fruit..

SI could create a default, or realistic, difficulty setting but also perhaps split difficulty into different categories like match tactics, morale management, transfer market et cetera, so folks like many in this thread could pick and choose. After all, SI care about our hardware, so why unsettle their more *laid-back* crowd now with, in their opinion, a too challenging match day experience?

The only thing I really care about is a FM experience as realistic as feasible, especially less robotic people management, please, but if people wanna buy, for example, every wonderkid there is with minimal effort or just click to win matches, I really don't exactly care about their business as long as I can pick a difficulty setting that tries to resemble the world of football as we know it..

Edited November 18, 2022 by SC00P0NE

[aj6658]

Ive been finding you lose a game then you hit really bad form. Seems like one blip causes a crash 

[phnompenhandy]

16 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Ive been finding you lose a game then you hit really bad form. Seems like one blip causes a crash 

Could be the opposition are sussing out your tactic. You need to keep tweaking.

[pemell]

13 hours ago, SC00P0NE said:

Well, quite clearly, SI care at the very least about their customer's hardware, so perhaps it is time now to seriously consider difficulty levels too, isn't it? I, for example, just defeated Man City in my UCL group 3:1 at home and managed to get a 1:1 away against them, and dealing with Haaland the entire time was a serious pain in the bee, so I'm obviously quite chuffed that my attempts at micromanaging the big guy, tactically, born fruit..

SI could create a default, or realistic, difficulty setting but also perhaps split difficulty into different categories like match tactics, morale management, transfer market et cetera, so folks like many in this thread could pick and choose. After all, SI care about our hardware, so why unsettle their more *laid-back* crowd now with, in their opinion, a too challenging match day experience?

The only thing I really care about is a FM experience as realistic as feasible, especially less robotic people management, please, but if people wanna buy, for example, every wonderkid there is with minimal effort or just click to win matches, I really don't exactly care about their business as long as I can pick a difficulty setting that tries to resemble the world of football as we know it..

I think it would be realistic if my world class assistant manager, which I'm paying 16k a week, actually could let me relax a bit playing this game. I love making transfers, the training part, dynamics and some other stuff but having to be very active in every single match is taking away the relaxing part of this game and it takes too much time playing it.

[SC00P0NE]

23 minutes ago, pemell said:

I think it would be realistic if my world class assistant manager, which I'm paying 16k a week, actually could let me relax a bit playing this game. I love making transfers, the training part, dynamics and some other stuff but having to be very active in every single match is taking away the relaxing part of this game and it takes too much time playing it.

yea, you would think an ass_man with 20 tactical knowledge and some points in motivating, people management & juding player ability should totally be capable of leading a match.

So what you are basically saying is that you want an option to let your ass_man lead a match from the get-to, tactically, but with the option to overrule or correct what your ass_man does whenever you feel like it, while you enjoy watching the match engine? Otherwise, I know there are skins with an instant result button, perhaps that's what you want?

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by SC00P0NE

[ReadingFan82]

On 15/11/2022 at 01:39, VeniVV said:

there just simply aren’t enough ways to understand when things are going wrong. The lack of info and analytics in games, except at half time, is criminal. I don’t understand this artificial creation of difficulty. Is it to force us to watch the mediocre graphics? I don’t know. I’m getting tired of the game and this company.

Could not agree more with this take. The assistant manager advice is notoriously awful which is one thing, but I was so excited to see what the data hub. But honestly, I haven't found it useful at all which has been a huge disappointment. I don't know if I'm just using it wrong but it seems buggy and not particularly useful. As you say its really difficult to actually see what's going wrong for you in game, whether or not its during the game or after it.  

[ReadingFan82]

On 17/11/2022 at 21:25, pemell said:

I've played FM and CM since CM2 and I couldn't agree more with OP, who I think explains it very well.

 

It is too hard to succeed these days, you need to be overly active and into details to perform well. Signing a very good assistant manager to help out won't help you achieve any longer.

 

For someone who has a family and a full time job, time is not just there and it just made me quit the game and promise I won't open it again.

 

Very sad to be honest. It's not what it used to be, relaxing and fun.

I think its hard for SI because they're stuck between a rock and a hard place, make a brilliant football management 'game' or football management 'simulation'. As someone who plays the game to relax or for escapism or whatever else you might call it, it can be a bit jarring the 'work' that goes into playing the game, which can sometimes make the experience not so fun. Obviously when things are going well in game its brilliant, but can be quite demoralising when things aren't going quite so well and there are a million and one things in game that could be making you lose games. It can be difficult to pinpoint what it is that your doing so badly wrong. In terms of being a football management simulation its fantastic, I'm not sure you'd fine anything better for any sport, but as a game sometimes I'm not so sure what I actually think of it in terms of it 'being fun'. I know that's not why a lot of people play it, and I know a lot of people see the fun in the challenge, but I don't know, that's just my 2 cents.

[Cobblers]

There are many ways in which you can make a team perform better/worse and these "ways" aren't always tactic related. So poor performance could be to do with who you've sold (high(er) influence and squad reputation players can be an issue), how you treated a player, what was said within a press conference and so on. So I'd look to smarten up on these things first as they have a lot to do with how your team/players might perform.

When talking about tactics, I'll admit I see little difference between FM23 or previous versions where difficulty is concerned. I rarely, if ever, mess about with my tactic. Neither do I ever take notice of the stats offered within a match/post match information. 

The main thing I look for when playing a match is during the clips (extended option selected). If the other team are being shown to hit me on the break/taking the game to my team and more than what the clips are showing my team doing so, then I will lower the mentality to Balanced or Cautious. Once a goal or two ahead I will then change up to balanced or positive depending on the opposition. 

Whenever going up against big teams I will always drop the approach to play to Cautious as soon as the whistle blows (no matter my team or presumed position of strength) - but never beforehand. Seems to work OK for me with the 4123 tactic I am using. Cautious mentality seems to be quite robust from the point of view of stopping goals from being conceded. 

Be careful not to overload and complicate your tactic too much for the players. They are AI after all and not always the smartest bunch to work with.

That all being said, Easy would be to play with Man City... more difficult would be to play with (pick your lesser team here) that has players who aren't quite as good, less money, less facilities to offer/support your team. 

[zsolt86]

On 14/11/2022 at 23:29, flauta kicma said:

Hello

For me game is really difficult. The tactic side of the game. It just do not do it for me, it is not fun. So many struggling, so many obstacles in match, it is not relaxing me anymore.

And Miles Jacobsen said:

"You have to be thinking during the match, you have to be making tweaks and changes accordingly. Not loads of them. It’s not like the Tinker Man era with Claudio Ranieri. But making sure that you’re protecting leads, or trying to get something out of the game towards the end, definitely has more of an effect now and the opposition are watching what you’re doing and they’re making changes as well."
https://www.givemesport.com/88071203-football-manager-2023-exclusive-how-hard-is-the-game

In older editions I had possibilities to turn things, you tweaked, something happened - here there is nothing at all. Nothing happens.

In older versions you could cheat with super tactics but that is not option. Or you could set up some nice and logical player roles and combine them with some preset team instructions. And you could be - good. And than excellent if you made good transfers and training etc. I think that is ok approach to us with ours jobs full of stress, families...

In this edition you obviously need to be genius. Or have much free time.

I think this game is going in wrong direction. I don't care for graphics, for Champions league intro's, I care only to have fun playing. It seems to me that this crazy search for realism on one hand and in other hand this investment in licenses and graphics is not right approach. 

Also I don't like this effort  "how the ME is showing visually in match".

I will C/P one answer from user Zemahh before few month on this topic.

"This game becomes much more enjoyable when you stop taking the match engine at face value. Ultimately, FM is text-based and all the calculations are done underneath what we see, the match itself is just a layer on top trying to give us something to watch. Putting too much faith into what it shows you graphically can lead to a lot of frustration, especially if you take things like defenders doing ridiculous stuff, or strikers missing what the game makes look like the impossible, too seriously."

It seems to me that players and especially editors pay to much intention to it. Game doesn't need to be real, it need to be fun with nice trace of reality. 

But I turned away from the topic. 

The topic is - will game become easier and more fun? I buy game only because youth development was broken on FM 22 (hope this now is ok haha, if not I should not buy it anyway), but if this tactic part of the game would not be corrected, I will not continue playing it.

And please - I do not want it to be super easy, as I explained it - I just want to have normal time playing it.

It seems to me SI needed to do "tactic engine" overhaul. Yes, even on FM 21 or FM 22 you didn't knew what where you doing with some set ups, instructions, TE is generally too chaotic for years. And because all of the Champions league graphics SI obviously didn't had time to  do that for FM 23. And than they blew it with some quick make over. 

Sorry for my English.

Cheers

I'm really glad  for your post, an Id want you to know you're not alone. Often when I start playing it, it takes 2 games and to turn into a psycho. I was thinking a lot about it, I would like to play because I enjoy the concept of it, and sometimes I had good saves as well . I think I know what is the difference between us, poor simpletons, and all these fm gurus, who usually never have a good intended kind response. The problem is, that people like you and me, we look at it as a GAME. Let's have a look, why people play video games; it opens up an imaginary world, where you can become anyone you wish. It gives you a platform where you can forget all the issues of the real life and have a peaceful relaxing time, without being bothered by anything or anyone. Now what Sports Interactive did with this game is , that they are trying to create a football manager simulation, as close to reality as possible. And that includes all the injury issues, the million hidden attributes,  the precise tactics required and so many other things. This is not a game anymore. Unfortunately, it can't be considered a simulation either (at least in my opinion). It's fair enough, that your press conferences can have an impact on the next game, but in real life you don't have to choose from 6 answer options to answer the questions  . We look at it as a game, thus we cannot accept to have mediocre results. You don't sit down to "play", because your dream is to be mid table positioned with Arsenal, just because you don't have 100% perfect tactics. Seeing it as a game we don't want to accept this mediocrity, but the game engine will still push you into it. This sort of reflects the real life, that's true, but to be hones, you can get the same frustration doing real stuffs, which might even give you something back. 

I'm a horrible player (you can attack me dear experts), often I have to save scum to get out of a losing streak, because I don't have patience and time to spend hours to figure out some hidden reason, why my midfielders turn into zombies. I'm still playing fm21, because I'm not going to spend money on this product anymore. I used to play it in my youth in 2008. I had nice memories with it, so in 2021 I decided to buy it to distract myself from personal problems by playing a couple of hours in the weekends . It actually gave me more frustration :)). At the beginning I really tried to spend time and learn all the details, but I realized it's pointless. Keep it as a "simulation", but not sure, that apart from these super genius managers here and on other forums, who else will purchase the future editions.

But you never know, maybe one day we, dumb moaning people, will also be able to fully enjoy it.

[Dreambuilder]

The team instructions in the tactics screen could have alot deeper explanations about the pros and cons about every one of them. As it is now you have to google alot and its still not clear how half of them work in detail.

It would help with more in depth text about their pros and cons for the game so you can base good decisions on them yourself (play the game). Adding more in depth  explanations for what the tactical instructions exactly do for offense and defense could make alot of managers better.

[Etebaer]

All i can say is that the "distribute quickly" setting casts a honeypot of errors and seomtimes some settings better stay disabled - at least for me.

My GKs tend to do stupid things with it enabled and i concede stupid goals while with it disabled i dont see any slower ballplay via the GK but with way less errors!

Edited January 16, 2023 by Etebaer

[themis89]

On 15/11/2022 at 08:37, sthptngomad76 said:

The game is finally living up to at least one of its headline features- challenging AI managers. It's been the first time I have enjoyed this series in some time- having to actually change my tactics from game to game is, shock horror, what a football manager actually does. Love it the way it is

THE PROBLEM IS : most people enjoy just finding a  perfect tactic and then press continue continue continue... the game since 2015 is VERY EASY, if u find a very good tactic thats why i never installed it again

[themis89]

On 17/11/2022 at 23:25, pemell said:

I've played FM and CM since CM2 and I couldn't agree more with OP, who I think explains it very well.

 

It is too hard to succeed these days, you need to be overly active and into details to perform well. Signing a very good assistant manager to help out won't help you achieve any longer.

 

For someone who has a family and a full time job, time is not just there and it just made me quit the game and promise I won't open it again.

 

Very sad to be honest. It's not what it used to be, relaxing and fun.

I have exactly the OPPOSITE opinion. I play fm from 2009. I stopped it at 2015, cause its SUPER EASY, when u find a good tactic at a beginning of a save, then u just press continue and u win almost everything....

[phnompenhandy]

21 minutes ago, themis89 said:

I have exactly the OPPOSITE opinion. I play fm from 2009. I stopped it at 2015, cause its SUPER EASY, when u find a good tactic at a beginning of a save, then u just press continue and u win almost everything....

That plug-n- play supertactic approach doesn't work anymore; nevertheless I find recruitment is too easy and I can build a squad that is overpowered (in lower league management, that is). But all you have to do is set your own terms to avoid the temptation to exploit the game's weaknesses.

Right now I'm doing a 'Head Coach' career where I can only work on tactics and player selection, combined with a  'Youth Academy-Only' strategy whereby the club doesn't buy players at all and relies on its annual youth intake. I'm also going 'attribute-blind'. Just one of those restrictions can make the game sufficiently challenging.
 

[DP]

The whole easy/hard thing is completely dependent on how far down the line you are. 

First 10 seasons can be a challenge for sure. After that though the mask slips and the game world crumbles due to a poor AI. 

If you manage a big team in, say, 2035 it becomes a procession very quickly. You can see this easily by looking at how many points are needed to win leagues (full detail on). 

[priority76]

9 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

nevertheless I find recruitment is too easy

Really? I'm finding that as a lower league team (or top tier team in a very low rep league) it takes a lot of looking to find players that can improve my squad.  I can find them but it takes a lot of time. 

[phnompenhandy]

12 minutes ago, priority76 said:

Really? I'm finding that as a lower league team (or top tier team in a very low rep league) it takes a lot of looking to find players that can improve my squad.  I can find them but it takes a lot of time. 

Oh it takes a lot of time for sure. But if they're on amateur or non-contract terms, you can continually bin them off when an upgrade comes along. That's why a Director of Football taking temptation out of your hands is a 'difficult setting'.

[priority76]

1 hour ago, phnompenhandy said:

Oh it takes a lot of time for sure. But if they're on amateur or non-contract terms, you can continually bin them off when an upgrade comes along. That's why a Director of Football taking temptation out of your hands is a 'difficult setting'.

And the most annoying thing is when you find a player who is a small improvement to your squad, who is willing to talk to you but his wage demands are too much.  Then you have to keep going back to him every two weeks until he lowers them.  All the while no other team is interested.  I really wish they would do away with the refusal to enter talks after they break down.  It may be somewhat realistic (I don't know) but it's frustrating and a waste of time.

[shirajzl]

On 26/01/2023 at 06:50, phnompenhandy said:

That plug-n- play supertactic approach doesn't work anymore

It does, actually, but not in the old sense of the word. We don't have Diablo level tactics like in the old days of CM and FM where quality of your players was inconsequential.

Nowadays, there are meta tactics which are optimized to work with a certain ME version and if you pair them with decent team building you're unstoppable. Even without transfers, those modern exploity tactics easily take a bottom predicted team to a top 4 finish in the first season. Sure, you can't win the title without better players, but you can surely overachieve like mad.

[XaW]

1 hour ago, shirajzl said:

It does, actually, but not in the old sense of the word. We don't have Diablo level tactics like in the old days of CM and FM where quality of your players was inconsequential.

Nowadays, there are meta tactics which are optimized to work with a certain ME version and if you pair them with decent team building you're unstoppable. Even without transfers, those modern exploity tactics easily take a bottom predicted team to a top 4 finish in the first season. Sure, you can't win the title without better players, but you can surely overachieve like mad.

There is always a sliding scale about good tactic vs exploitive tactics. For me the general idea is if the tactic works across versions and games, then it's sound tactically, however if a new version of the match engine (bugs aside) makes tactic go from insanely good to horrible trash, it was exploiting a loophole. That's not to say everyone who has them did so on purpose, you can always stumble onto an exploit without knowing it and just use it since you win with it.

I've used the same tactic since FM17 with minor tweak along the way, and it's yet to be bad. I usually slightly overachieve with it, and it works at all levels I've used it at. So it's my goto if I have players for it.

[DarJ]

On 18/11/2022 at 04:00, SC00P0NE said:

so perhaps it is time now to seriously consider difficulty levels too, isn't it?

I know this comment is old but out of curiosity what would difficult level look like? 

FM is unique in the sense that the AI and human play on equal field so you both have the same tools to win games. 

I've been playing some strategy games recently and they achieve difficulty level by giving the player a lot more resources compared to the AI or vice versa so I'm struggling to imagine what an easier game would look like 

[jcafcwbb]

Surely the best way to implement a difficulty level is to give the player an option of club financing as it is in real life.

We have seen how much Manchester City have improved since their takeover and Newcastle United's one have improved them. Wrexham is a work in progress.

In the past Fulham and Wigan, and Blackburn achieved a lot due to the extra money. Maybe there should be a choice to allow you manage any team and instigate a takeover which will give you the money to buy the best players - as that is the easier mode in real life football. I believe this isn't already in the game.

[sthptngomad76]

9 hours ago, DarJ said:

I know this comment is old but out of curiosity what would difficult level look like? 

FM is unique in the sense that the AI and human play on equal field so you both have the same tools to win games. 

I've been playing some strategy games recently and they achieve difficulty level by giving the player a lot more resources compared to the AI or vice versa so I'm struggling to imagine what an easier game would look like 

I've always wondered why there cannot be tick box modifiers (similar to other strategy games) which allow for some kind of advantage or disadvantage to a player. For example, youth only saves, sign players born within X km of your club, or even a slider to affect how much morale (for example) influences performance (I realise people play youth only saves already- this just formalises it). Even that would be a start.