The game is too difficult. Is there plan to fix it in patch?

[flauta kicma]

Hello

For me game is really difficult. The tactic side of the game. It just do not do it for me, it is not fun. So many struggling, so many obstacles in match, it is not relaxing me anymore.

And Miles Jacobsen said:

"You have to be thinking during the match, you have to be making tweaks and changes accordingly. Not loads of them. It’s not like the Tinker Man era with Claudio Ranieri. But making sure that you’re protecting leads, or trying to get something out of the game towards the end, definitely has more of an effect now and the opposition are watching what you’re doing and they’re making changes as well."
https://www.givemesport.com/88071203-football-manager-2023-exclusive-how-hard-is-the-game

In older editions I had possibilities to turn things, you tweaked, something happened - here there is nothing at all. Nothing happens.

In older versions you could cheat with super tactics but that is not option. Or you could set up some nice and logical player roles and combine them with some preset team instructions. And you could be - good. And than excellent if you made good transfers and training etc. I think that is ok approach to us with ours jobs full of stress, families...

In this edition you obviously need to be genius. Or have much free time.

I think this game is going in wrong direction. I don't care for graphics, for Champions league intro's, I care only to have fun playing. It seems to me that this crazy search for realism on one hand and in other hand this investment in licenses and graphics is not right approach. 

Also I don't like this effort  "how the ME is showing visually in match".

I will C/P one answer from user Zemahh before few month on this topic.

"This game becomes much more enjoyable when you stop taking the match engine at face value. Ultimately, FM is text-based and all the calculations are done underneath what we see, the match itself is just a layer on top trying to give us something to watch. Putting too much faith into what it shows you graphically can lead to a lot of frustration, especially if you take things like defenders doing ridiculous stuff, or strikers missing what the game makes look like the impossible, too seriously."

It seems to me that players and especially editors pay to much intention to it. Game doesn't need to be real, it need to be fun with nice trace of reality. 

But I turned away from the topic. 

The topic is - will game become easier and more fun? I buy game only because youth development was broken on FM 22 (hope this now is ok haha, if not I should not buy it anyway), but if this tactic part of the game would not be corrected, I will not continue playing it.

And please - I do not want it to be super easy, as I explained it - I just want to have normal time playing it.

It seems to me SI needed to do "tactic engine" overhaul. Yes, even on FM 21 or FM 22 you didn't knew what where you doing with some set ups, instructions, TE is generally too chaotic for years. And because all of the Champions league graphics SI obviously didn't had time to  do that for FM 23. And than they blew it with some quick make over. 

Sorry for my English.

Cheers

Edited November 14, 2022 by flauta kicma

[SC00P0NE]

I'll admit, during beta I've had a hard time, too, even with barcelona. Then I figured out why I wasn't performing too well, and now it's all good.

Are you confident that you've tried long enough to make it work? For example, team mentality is way more powerful in FM23 in comparison to FM21 in my opinion, I kept losing points during beta because I always had it set to offensive mentality which the game quite clearly did not like..

If you have no clue why you are losing, start out with a balanced mentality and adjust it according to what you see on the pitch. Do not play with elaborate PIs, that will only make tracking the reasons for losing down harder..

I apologize if I sound somewhat condescending

Edited November 15, 2022 by SC00P0NE

[VeniVV]

Keeping clean sheets is impossible. The game is driving me insane. And the tactical UI is terrible. This game doesn’t feel fun. It just turns me into a toxic human being and actually degrades my mental health because I want to enjoy it but I can’t. 

[busngabb]

1 minute ago, VeniVV said:

Keeping clean sheets is impossible. The game is driving me insane. And the tactical UI is terrible. This game doesn’t feel fun. It just turns me into a toxic human being and actually degrades my mental health because I want to enjoy it but I can’t. 

There's definitely an element of that with me as well, I sometimes have to take a break from it. I end up berating them until it becomes a vicous circle and all the players are emotionally scarred. I think this thread shows the difficulty SI has in terms of balancing the game. There is a large part of the community that calls for the game to be more difficult each year and for the AI to be more advanced. Yet when SI change things, it causes a lot of upset as people struggle. This is one of the main reasons why I don't play the new version usually until December or January. It gives SI the time to patch the game and it gives the more advanced players than me time to figure out the best ideas and I swoop in with a load of questions and steal the best ideas from everyone else. I take it you go on the tactics part of the forum? There are some great people on there who will help with specific problems you're having.

[phnompenhandy]

The irony is in this current thread there are posters aggressively attacking SI for making the game too easy:

FM23 difficulty

 

How can it be both?

[VeniVV]

4 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

The irony is in this current thread there are posters aggressively attacking SI for making the game too easy:

FM23 difficulty

 

How can it be both?

Probably because we want to do tactical styles like mid to low blocks and not play high press, possession football that the ME favours. AI managers that have this preset generally get 95-100 points. Any other style gives you 82-90 points. No other style is viable. And maybe it is, but immense micro management. But then I remember I’m playing this as a form of recreation and to relax. 
 

there just simply aren’t enough ways to understand when things are going wrong. The lack of info and analytics in games, except at half time, is criminal. I don’t understand this artificial creation of difficulty. Is it to force us to watch the mediocre graphics? I don’t know. I’m getting tired of the game and this company.

It’s pretty deflating that their obsession for simulation without enabling players to accessibly make tweaks and course correct. 

[busngabb]

1 minute ago, phnompenhandy said:

The irony is in this current thread there are posters aggressively attacking SI for making the game too easy:

FM23 difficulty

 

How can it be both?

Well it can. Some players are very advanced at the game. They will spot a problem, test how to fix it and run eight simulations of the next decade to work out the best solution. For them it is too easy. The signing of players to improve your squad is unrealistically easy on the game, so the game becomes easy very quickly for a lot.

Others, like me will look at the match engine highlights and go 'huh?' when the opposition score a last minute corner to win 3-2 when you've had 9 shots on target to their 1. Or I'll sit wondering how changing to attacking mentality just means the last 10 minutes passes without a highlight everytime, yet when the AI does it it means there's a 12 minute highlight to end the game. I often can't spot why something is happening, so I google it and there's usually a thread on one of the forums where they're debating it and I can lift the ideas from there. A lot don't like to do that and want to do it themselves, so the game can be pretty brutal.

Having difficult levels on FM has been a topic of debate for years. Obviously it's in the game in the past experience of the manager etc and it's easier to manage a big club, but the tactics aren't easy due to the depth the game has.

I think a good compromise would be making the assistant managers genuinely better. They really should spot the glarring problems with your tactics and nudge you in the right direction. I know they do some bits now, but it's mixed in with a lot of noise and nonsense.

 

[Mcfc1894]

It's not hard at all just look at most threads more than 50% of people are overachiving Games are meant to get you thinking fm in the past especially last few editions become so easy it was almost click and continue and don't even have to think about tactics this game is finally going the right direction and you now in ways have to think about tactics 

[Mars_Blackmon]

18 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

The irony is in this current thread there are posters aggressively attacking SI for making the game too easy:

FM23 difficulty

 

How can it be both?

Easy, pun intended. OP cleary just download tactics and dont put any thought into the game. People who find it easy actually put thought into what they are doing.

[VeniVV]

4 minutes ago, Mcfc1894 said:

It's not hard at all just look at most threads more than 50% of people are overachiving Games are meant to get you thinking fm in the past especially last few editions become so easy it was almost click and continue and don't even have to think about tactics this game is finally going the right direction and you now in ways have to think about tactics 

Do those tactics involve high line pressing by any chance? Just like how if the AI uses high line press, they overachieve? 

[Mcfc1894]

1 minute ago, VeniVV said:

Do those tactics involve high line pressing by any chance? Just like how if the AI uses high line press, they overachieve? 

I don't know others tactics but you can definitely succeed more with lower lines and not super pressing compared to previous FMs but I'm using mid block 5212 and I'm doing better than media predicted its great though that sometimes I don't win games I'm expected previously fm I was always going to overachive it go so boring now there is some balance and you actually have to use brain now 

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, VeniVV said:

Probably because we want to do tactical styles like mid to low blocks and not play high press, possession football that the ME favours. AI managers that have this preset generally get 95-100 points. Any other style gives you 82-90 points. No other style is viable. And maybe it is, but immense micro management. But then I remember I’m playing this as a form of recreation and to relax. 
 

there just simply aren’t enough ways to understand when things are going wrong. The lack of info and analytics in games, except at half time, is criminal. I don’t understand this artificial creation of difficulty. Is it to force us to watch the mediocre graphics? I don’t know. I’m getting tired of the game and this company.

It’s pretty deflating that their obsession for simulation without enabling players to accessibly make tweaks and course correct. 

Your recent history of posts have shown that you are more inclined to throw your lollies out of the pram than trying any serious attempt at understanding the game. This isn't FM22 its FM23, Its a new game with a new match engine that requires a new approach. Its not asking you to relearn everything, a logical sound balanced tactic still works.

A low block is possible, a mid block is possible. I have played now numerous matches with a low block and a high block and they work. Yes you are expected to notice things happen in a game. You are expected to notice when your players are getting jaded and need to be taken off. If they are playing in key positions, even the assistant manager tells you to take them off when they are dangerously close to being run over.  This is a game about football management, not a game where you stick in one tactic, sign the best players and then pretend you are the digital equivalent of Guardiola.

SI isn't forcing you specifically into a tactical style, your biases are the preventing you from trying something new or learning something new. You are making a lot of assumptions about how the AI plays and are assuming it uses a preset that is high pressing, when in reality it has other tactics to choose from.  And some of those tactics are low block, very structured, defensive mentality tactics that are hitting you sideways. If you don't understand what you are doing wrong, then it doesn't come from a lack of information from the game, but from a lack of understanding of the tools that are available in the game.  If it is deflating you, then perhaps take a step back and try and learn how the game plays? Or take your tactic to the training and tactics forum for help could be the way forward for you.  You could also start from ground zero and learn what the instructions are about. If you can't afford the time nor the patience to learn, my advice to you - stop trolling the forum with your nonsense.

 

[sthptngomad76]

The game is finally living up to at least one of its headline features- challenging AI managers. It's been the first time I have enjoyed this series in some time- having to actually change my tactics from game to game is, shock horror, what a football manager actually does. Love it the way it is

Edited November 15, 2022 by sthptngomad76

[Parmie]

My experience so far is that the difficulty is about right. I've taken a lower league team, didn't sign anyone in the first season, narrowly missed board expectations. I sold and bought a few players to shape the team into my tactic, got promoted. In the higher division my team compared with everyone else was bad, I got relegated. Early signs in the next season on is I will probably be promoted again.

I'd say the original poster needs to understand some aspect of the game well, not necessarily tactics, to perform well. By that I mean if you are good in the transfer market to get better players, your tactics will matter less, if you can motivate your players through press conferences, team talks, etc. they'll do better in a match. You can use training to improve tactical awareness, cohesion between players so they do better in your tactic.

While it's easy to isolate the tactics side of the game and say it's hard, most other aspects of the game impact on the pitch performance, so if you do spend some time building a tactic that feels like it should work and fits your players, it could be something else you are or are not doing that effecting match performances.

[VeniVV]

2 hours ago, Rashidi said:

Your recent history of posts have shown that you are more inclined to throw your lollies out of the pram than trying any serious attempt at understanding the game. This isn't FM22 its FM23, Its a new game with a new match engine that requires a new approach. Its not asking you to relearn everything, a logical sound balanced tactic still works.

A low block is possible, a mid block is possible. I have played now numerous matches with a low block and a high block and they work. Yes you are expected to notice things happen in a game. You are expected to notice when your players are getting jaded and need to be taken off. If they are playing in key positions, even the assistant manager tells you to take them off when they are dangerously close to being run over.  This is a game about football management, not a game where you stick in one tactic, sign the best players and then pretend you are the digital equivalent of Guardiola.

SI isn't forcing you specifically into a tactical style, your biases are the preventing you from trying something new or learning something new. You are making a lot of assumptions about how the AI plays and are assuming it uses a preset that is high pressing, when in reality it has other tactics to choose from.  And some of those tactics are low block, very structured, defensive mentality tactics that are hitting you sideways. If you don't understand what you are doing wrong, then it doesn't come from a lack of information from the game, but from a lack of understanding of the tools that are available in the game.  If it is deflating you, then perhaps take a step back and try and learn how the game plays? Or take your tactic to the training and tactics forum for help could be the way forward for you.  You could also start from ground zero and learn what the instructions are about. If you can't afford the time nor the patience to learn, my advice to you - stop trolling the forum with your nonsense.

 

I have spent countless hours going through this forum, your videos, multiple blogs, dev posts etc. I generally find it’s contradictory really.

I’d feel far more encouraged if there was an official in game wiki that without ambiguity tells me EXACTLY what mentality is (yes, it’s risk - but is it? Has it been reworked?)

I have for multiple FMs trying to recreate a Simeone 442. Mid block, low block, high press variations depending on the opposition. That’s the challenge for me. I don’t expect to win every game. I do hope to be competitive, though. 
 

I look at things that you taught me “are my players providing key passes? What is the xG like? Are we progressive? What do we look like in transition?”

I recall on a Zealand and RDF video, albeit for fm21 or fm22 that your tactic should have a high press. I look at tactics on the forum for years that suggest a high press, even with tactics that suggest Mourinho/Simeone styles. And if I’m not going crazy, I recall a post by you in which you said that the difference between high press tactics and low blocks haven’t been closed up in gap of performance. 

I don’t feel clever enough not do I feel I have the tools to adapt to things in this game. I don’t understand why, in a match, we have less ways of understanding in real time what is happening vs. On fm17 where I can have data points consistently through the game. 

I think you’re completely right by taking my posts recently and extrapolating that I’m a troll. I’m going through a bit dark time and in some infantile quest for escapism where I can, for a moment, where life isn’t drowning me and driving me to point of topping myself, I use this game to escape it for maybe 15 minutes, an hour or more. So last night you caught me on a snapping point. It happens. But perhaps it feels like this game just isn’t for me anymore.
 

If I have to spend countless hours (And I mean countless) to have a basic grasp of how I can use the game mechanics to produce the football I want, then perhaps I need to take a step back from the series. It was for me for over a decade but now the game just leaves me feel sad without joy because I don’t understand what to do with the information presented to me. 

 

 

[Rashidi]

11 minutes ago, VeniVV said:

I don’t understand what to do with the information presented to me

Then step back play without any TIs. Keep thing simple. My Saachi system has very few team instructions it’s only a flat 442, but in order for me to have come up with that I actually went back and created a tactic without any team instructions. When I understood and saw the impact of one then I slowly added another. Step away, decompress and start with less. You might find what you are looking for.

[VeniVV]

1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

Then step back play without any TIs. Keep thing simple. My Saachi system has very few team instructions it’s only a flat 442, but in order for me to have come up with that I actually went back and created a tactic without any team instructions. When I understood and saw the impact of one then I slowly added another. Step away, decompress and start with less. You might find what you are looking for.

I concentrate on roles and duties first and foremost. Then I see how it looks and how the mentality impacts the roles and it’s impact on the four stages of play.

I like to keep it simple initially because I can see where to identify easily where deficiencies are.

I am currently using a high press but with strikers to have balanced press trigger on cautious mentality. This allows my strikers to apply a press if the opportunity arises without having to go past a line of engagement so it presents more opportunities to turnover, especially against lesser opponents whilst maintaining shape.

My two DMs act as holding midfielders with a degree of risk to allow progressive passes but stop counter attacks. Full backs create width.

My tactics perform well most of the time. I just cannot stop conceding goals to small xG chances. Nor when coming against a different tactical style, understanding what needs to change.

Away games seem to my problem. I’m not sure what is going on under the hood to counteract it. I read that is because of the AI using a more positive mentality at home. Fine. But what tools can I use to counteract that? I’m still not sure what mentality is and I don’t understand, despite reading countless posts on it, what it does on the game systems. There doesn’t seem to be a unified consensus on it. 
 

 

 

 

 

[kevhamster]

7 hours ago, VeniVV said:

Probably because we want to do tactical styles like mid to low blocks and not play high press, possession football that the ME favours. AI managers that have this preset generally get 95-100 points. Any other style gives you 82-90 points. No other style is viable. And maybe it is, but immense micro management. But then I remember I’m playing this as a form of recreation and to relax. 
 

there just simply aren’t enough ways to understand when things are going wrong. The lack of info and analytics in games, except at half time, is criminal. I don’t understand this artificial creation of difficulty. Is it to force us to watch the mediocre graphics? I don’t know. I’m getting tired of the game and this company.

It’s pretty deflating that their obsession for simulation without enabling players to accessibly make tweaks and course correct. 

For stats and analytics, I definitely recommend the Tato skin.  The matchday tablet is actually useful now and contains info throughout the match.  I found out about it through a streamer and it's way more useful than the default skin, and as a bonus looks good as well.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm23-skin-tato.html

 

[VeniVV]

3 minutes ago, kevhamster said:

For stats and analytics, I definitely recommend the Tato skin.  The matchday tablet is actually useful now and contains info throughout the match.  I found out about it through a streamer and it's way more useful than the default skin, and as a bonus looks good as well.

https://www.fmscout.com/a-fm23-skin-tato.html

 

Thanks, this a helpful. I’ll give it a whirl later on and see how I get on. 

[Cam NBH]

@VeniVV post your tactic so we can have a look at the roles and TIs

[VeniVV]

4 minutes ago, Cam NBH said:

@VeniVV post your tactic so we can have a look at the roles and TIs

 

 

 

[andu1]

It's more difficult and i love it.  In every FM in the last 5 years i start my first save with Virtus Francavilla in Serie C/ Italy to understand how difficult the game is. In previous FM's i was always promoting from Serie C to A in maximum 4 seasons.

For example in FM 22 i made them title challengers in my first season in serie A as it was so easy to loan hot prospects, and the clubs kept renewing loans without thinking of giving those players first team football in their squads!

This year around i am in 2026-2027 season sitting 11th in  SERIE B after the previous season i got knocked out by Perugia in the promotion play-offs. It's harder tactically, and transfer wise the clubs want your club to pay some of the wages of their loans when my club struggles financially...

[luka_zg]

9 hours ago, VeniVV said:

Keeping clean sheets is impossible. The game is driving me insane. And the tactical UI is terrible. This game doesn’t feel fun. It just turns me into a toxic human being and actually degrades my mental health because I want to enjoy it but I can’t. 

I conceded 14 goals in the league after playing 38 games. My keeper had 26 clean sheets. Cheers.

[VeniVV]

10 minutes ago, luka_zg said:

I conceded 14 goals in the league after playing 38 games. My keeper had 26 clean sheets. Cheers.

Nice. 

[RandomGuy.]

Dont be afraid of defensive mentality, its worded badly i think.

I struggled until i used it with the custom "fluid counter attack" set up. Now my teams (Southampton/Scotland) regularly keep clean sheets and everything feels a lot more controlled. Still the odd crazy game but definitely gives your team more control 

[XaW]

1 hour ago, VeniVV said:

I'm not a tactical genius, but I do have a couple of questions here. You say you want to do the Simeone style, but you have a low line and a high press. That is the exact opposite of what Simeone does. He keeps this lines TIGHT. You'd be hard pressed to see his side sitting deep and having the midfield step up leaving a massive gap in between. You also have a low risk tactic, but a high tempo. Those can often be contradictory. The whole midfield is also on support, giving the players more judgement calls as to when to do what. Simeone has a VERY structured game, but as even the game tells you, this is a flexible setup. Also, why is Oblak a Sweeper Keeper? He is not one that ventures outside his box and is arguably best on the line. Especially with a deep defensive line that strike me as odd.

Please don't take this as a criticism of you directly, but I struggle to see how this would work, or even that this is meant to replicate Simeone.

Playing defensively do work in FM23, as @Rashidi has shown, so it's not like there is only a few ways to win. However, you need a cohesive tactic no matter what it is meant to do, and I don't really see your current setup working, or even what it is intending to do.

[VeniVV]

1 minute ago, XaW said:

I'm not a tactical genius, but I do have a couple of questions here. You say you want to do the Simeone style, but you have a low line and a high press. That is the exact opposite of what Simeone does. He keeps this lines TIGHT. You'd be hard pressed to see his side sitting deep and having the midfield step up leaving a massive gap in between. You also have a low risk tactic, but a high tempo. Those can often be contradictory. The whole midfield is also on support, giving the players more judgement calls as to when to do what. Simeone has a VERY structured game, but as even the game tells you, this is a flexible setup. Also, why is Oblak a Sweeper Keeper? He is not one that ventures outside his box and is arguably best on the line. Especially with a deep defensive line that strike me as odd.

Please don't take this as a criticism of you directly, but I struggle to see how this would work, or even that this is meant to replicate Simeone.

Playing defensively do work in FM23, as @Rashidi has shown, so it's not like there is only a few ways to win. However, you need a cohesive tactic no matter what it is meant to do, and I don't really see your current setup working, or even what it is intending to do.

 

These are good points. I put the defensive line a notch because with the two DMs, I saw TOO much compression. I agree with the high press too. To counteract, I put my forward to close down less often. This allow opportunities to press up high if it makes sense to do so but generally they will revert into shape. Ideally, I'd like to play standard line, mid-block. When I did this, I found that I was conceding a) too many long shots, b) allowing wide players to make through balls down the wing to cross for a high xG chance for a striker. It then made sense to close down those opportunities, rather than keep shape overly. This tactic was a response to what I saw in game.

This is my ideal tactic that I'd like to perform:

Full backs stay wider. Both DMs on hold position. 

 

 

[XaW]

3 minutes ago, VeniVV said:

 

These are good points. I put the defensive line a notch because with the two DMs, I saw TOO much compression. I agree with the high press too. To counteract, I put my forward to close down less often. This allow opportunities to press up high if it makes sense to do so but generally they will revert into shape. Ideally, I'd like to play standard line, mid-block. When I did this, I found that I was conceding a) too many long shots, b) allowing wide players to make through balls down the wing to cross for a high xG chance for a striker. It then made sense to close down those opportunities, rather than keep shape overly. This tactic was a response to what I saw in game.

This is my ideal tactic that I'd like to perform:

Full backs stay wider. Both DMs on hold position. 

I often use a tactics board to imagine what the roles will create as a base, so for your defensive shape you have something like this:

That's fine. Also, conceding long shots is not necessarily an issue, as you'd often rather have long shots against than 1v1s against. As long as your team pressures the opponent when they shoot from long range, you should be in a good shape. You are inviting crosses, so your central defenders and DMs should be very comfortable in the air against the opponents. I also hope you don't have much man marking going on there, because if you do and they have a rogue runner into the box, you might have an issue.

Going forward, I imaging this will most likely be how it looks:

The central midfielders and the defenders will be quite close I imagine as you are telling all of the to be quite conservative. The wide midfielders will go inside and allow the fullbacks to stay wide, but not too high as they are not wingbacks. The PF-D will also drop deep, so you'll have 3 close players around the AM strata. I worry this could cause too many players to be part of the buildup and too few part of the actual scoring. At least the AF will be key in terms of goals because he will have to be both quick and good at finding space, and possibly big and burly to take advantage of the crosses from the fullbacks. The rest of the players seems to be a bit behind, perhaps only the left midfielder really helping there.

Without seeing how it plays out I'd imagine the AF being isolated, and you having loads of passes between the central mids without much penetration.

As I said earlier, I'm not a tactical genius at any rate, and I don't particularly like defensive football, so I won't try to give you pointers as to how to improve it since this is a bit outside of what I'm comfortable saying with confidence. I'm better at spotting what is wrong, rather than actually fix it! Yes, I often get annoyed playing myself as I know what the issue is, but I struggle to find the correct solution in my own games! I would encourage you to start a thread in the tactics section, if you haven't already. There are so many people in there better than I who can give good suggestions as to how this could work.

[VeniVV]

19 minutes ago, XaW said:

I often use a tactics board to imagine what the roles will create as a base, so for your defensive shape you have something like this:

That's fine. Also, conceding long shots is not necessarily an issue, as you'd often rather have long shots against than 1v1s against. As long as your team pressures the opponent when they shoot from long range, you should be in a good shape. You are inviting crosses, so your central defenders and DMs should be very comfortable in the air against the opponents. I also hope you don't have much man marking going on there, because if you do and they have a rogue runner into the box, you might have an issue.

Going forward, I imaging this will most likely be how it looks:

The central midfielders and the defenders will be quite close I imagine as you are telling all of the to be quite conservative. The wide midfielders will go inside and allow the fullbacks to stay wide, but not too high as they are not wingbacks. The PF-D will also drop deep, so you'll have 3 close players around the AM strata. I worry this could cause too many players to be part of the buildup and too few part of the actual scoring. At least the AF will be key in terms of goals because he will have to be both quick and good at finding space, and possibly big and burly to take advantage of the crosses from the fullbacks. The rest of the players seems to be a bit behind, perhaps only the left midfielder really helping there.

Without seeing how it plays out I'd imagine the AF being isolated, and you having loads of passes between the central mids without much penetration.

As I said earlier, I'm not a tactical genius at any rate, and I don't particularly like defensive football, so I won't try to give you pointers as to how to improve it since this is a bit outside of what I'm comfortable saying with confidence. I'm better at spotting what is wrong, rather than actually fix it! Yes, I often get annoyed playing myself as I know what the issue is, but I struggle to find the correct solution in my own games! I would encourage you to start a thread in the tactics section, if you haven't already. There are so many people in there better than I who can give good suggestions as to how this could work.

 

Thanks for the breakdown! Here's a recent game:

 

I'm not quite sure why it works. I think my big issue is opposition away games against strong teams. I see others struggle with this and I don't know what it is going on under the hood to correct it. 

 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, VeniVV said:

 

Thanks for the breakdown! Here's a recent game:

 

I'm not quite sure why it works. I think my big issue is opposition away games against strong teams. I see others struggle with this and I don't know what it is going on under the hood to correct it. 

 

Looking at one game in isolation is rarely enough, and I imagine Mirandés is not exactly a team that you would struggle against anyway. That said, look at how little xG you AF has. As I said, I think he is being isolated, and for this game Carrasco had a stormer it seems. Looking at how thing ACTUALLY went down though, you got a pen to take the lead. Into the 2nd half the opponent (being at home) had to push forward, and then your players got enough space and I bet you hit them on the break, at least for the two last goals.

Away games against top teams are the hardest ones for everyone, so you'd have to look at individual games to know why. What kinds of goals do you concede? Are they down to what looks to be individual mistakes/opponent brilliance or do you suddenly have 4 strikers open in the box? Are your players being pulled out too much, or are they too passive, or even some of each. Looking at the details is key there to know why something is happening either way.

If I was to gamble at a possibility, I'd say the chance of your strikers closing down and letting an opponent DM having all the time on the ball to dictate the game, would be quite high. If your opponent are playing with a DM or a CM playmaker, I would expect that player to have a high rating against you on a regular basis. I say this because with two DMs in a 4-4-2 you are giving away a lot of space between the lines ahead of the DMs and if they have a player like Modric, he sure can pick a pass against just about anyone if he gets time on the ball. Perhaps having OIs on those roles would help? I would attempt it, at least.

[VeniVV]

22 minutes ago, XaW said:

Looking at one game in isolation is rarely enough, and I imagine Mirandés is not exactly a team that you would struggle against anyway. That said, look at how little xG you AF has. As I said, I think he is being isolated, and for this game Carrasco had a stormer it seems. Looking at how thing ACTUALLY went down though, you got a pen to take the lead. Into the 2nd half the opponent (being at home) had to push forward, and then your players got enough space and I bet you hit them on the break, at least for the two last goals.

Away games against top teams are the hardest ones for everyone, so you'd have to look at individual games to know why. What kinds of goals do you concede? Are they down to what looks to be individual mistakes/opponent brilliance or do you suddenly have 4 strikers open in the box? Are your players being pulled out too much, or are they too passive, or even some of each. Looking at the details is key there to know why something is happening either way.

If I was to gamble at a possibility, I'd say the chance of your strikers closing down and letting an opponent DM having all the time on the ball to dictate the game, would be quite high. If your opponent are playing with a DM or a CM playmaker, I would expect that player to have a high rating against you on a regular basis. I say this because with two DMs in a 4-4-2 you are giving away a lot of space between the lines ahead of the DMs and if they have a player like Modric, he sure can pick a pass against just about anyone if he gets time on the ball. Perhaps having OIs on those roles would help? I would attempt it, at least.

 

I think this is a good example. We created 10 clear cut chances created (CCCs) to their 2. My AF position between two strikers had an xG of 2.0. We kept their forward at bay to an extent comparatively. My defenders underperformed and we conceded a goal to a long shot. I will try OIs by position, actually. Maybe that's the final jigsaw puzzle. 

I'm not quite sure on what the solution is to squeeze the gap in the middle whilst maintaining compactness. 

 

 

[XaW]

2 minutes ago, VeniVV said:

 

I think this is a good example. We created 10 clear cut chances created (CCCs) to their 2. My AF position between two strikers had an xG of 2.0. We kept their forward at bay to an extent comparatively. My defenders underperformed and we conceded a goal to a long shot. I will try OIs by position, actually. Maybe that's the final jigsaw puzzle. 

I'm not quite sure on what the solution is to squeeze the gap in the middle whilst maintaining compactness. 

 

 

As I said previously, a single match is hard to gauge correctly. Can you show the xG story for that match? Seeing as you have over 3 xG, but also 22 shots, I wonder if you are creating some big chances or just loads of smaller ones, and xG story often shows that well.

Of course, within a single match, you could have been unlucky. After all, there are countless cases of a team not winning even if they do just about everything correctly. Sometimes the unexpected happens in real life as well as FM...

[VeniVV]

3 minutes ago, XaW said:

As I said previously, a single match is hard to gauge correctly. Can you show the xG story for that match? Seeing as you have over 3 xG, but also 22 shots, I wonder if you are creating some big chances or just loads of smaller ones, and xG story often shows that well.

Of course, within a single match, you could have been unlucky. After all, there are countless cases of a team not winning even if they do just about everything correctly. Sometimes the unexpected happens in real life as well as FM...

 

Here's another one, lost this time. Maybe just unlucky but seems quite a pattern. 

 

 

The Celta Vigo one:

 

 

 

 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, VeniVV said:

 

Here's another one, lost this time. Maybe just unlucky but seems quite a pattern. 

 

 

The Celta Vigo one:

 

 

 

 

It not extremely easy to know the details, but for me it looks like you are VERY reliant on your wide midfielders to score. In these screenshots I think more or less only Carrasco and Lemar has scored for you. So I think the issue with your AF being isolated is really the key to this. And as I said, I'm not entirely sure how to fix it. Based on the xG story you create some decent chances, but too many poor ones. Perhaps removing the higher tempo will help things, but it could also have other bad effects. Based on what I see there, I think your issue is that you are not bringing the strikers into the games enough, so your issue is that there is too little pressure on your opponents. At least that's how I see it. I think this is more an issue for the tactical subforum, rather than GD, so please continue this in there as you are more likely to get the right eyes on it, as well as better answers.

[VeniVV]

4 minutes ago, XaW said:

It not extremely easy to know the details, but for me it looks like you are VERY reliant on your wide midfielders to score. In these screenshots I think more or less only Carrasco and Lemar has scored for you. So I think the issue with your AF being isolated is really the key to this. And as I said, I'm not entirely sure how to fix it. Based on the xG story you create some decent chances, but too many poor ones. Perhaps removing the higher tempo will help things, but it could also have other bad effects. Based on what I see there, I think your issue is that you are not bringing the strikers into the games enough, so your issue is that there is too little pressure on your opponents. At least that's how I see it. I think this is more an issue for the tactical subforum, rather than GD, so please continue this in there as you are more likely to get the right eyes on it, as well as better answers.

I think you're right. It is a question of the trade offs between using DMs for solidity and their contribution to linking the middle of the pitch. Will read about and potential submit this to the tactics forum because I would like to nail this.

[Parmie]

 

2 minutes ago, VeniVV said:

I think you're right. It is a question of the trade offs between using DMs for solidity and their contribution to linking the middle of the pitch. Will read about and potential submit this to the tactics forum because I would like to nail this.

I think the match engine hates defensively minded tactics against weaker sides. Mirandes are probably so bad it didn't matter, but I'd expect you to go after Espanyol and Vigo. You may need a more offensive mindset across some players and the team even if you don't want to change formation. I've done something similar with my own team and got on a clean sheet run since supposedly becoming more attacking.

[Viking]

I generally find the FM-series way too hard for me nowadays, and FM23 is the worst yet. Started my first release version save with West Brom. After nine losses and one draw I had enough and reloaded two "easy" matches until I won them, got bored, and deleted the save because what's the point. Had the same problems with the beta.

[kevhamster]

Just wanted to say thanks to @XaW for his tactical input.  The thread isn't mine, but it's given me some food for thought for my own save where I'm having a bit of a struggle, to put it mildly.

[thehig2]

I'm finding it similar to past games and so far I achieve the same amount of success I normally do. 

 

In my 4th season with Everton, finished 8th, 5th, 9th, and 4th. 

Also won a Europa Conference league, pitiful opposition played my second string up to semi finals 

Tactically fairly simple direct counter attack 4-4-2. Two big strong centre backs, two good defensive full backs as they dont forward much. Two pure hardworking athletes in midfield, bit of flair on the wings. A fast advanced forward and brutally hard working Pressing Forward/Target Forward. 

Pretty much Simone ball.

[XaW]

4 hours ago, kevhamster said:

Just wanted to say thanks to @XaW for his tactical input.  The thread isn't mine, but it's given me some food for thought for my own save where I'm having a bit of a struggle, to put it mildly.

Happy to have helped out. Just wish I was as good at solving issues as spotting them, but it's a work in progress for everyone at different levels, I suppose!

[flauta kicma]

Firstly, thanks for great contribution to everyone. 

 

But there is one thing - many of you say like that now player need to adapt, to tweak, to think more... But what to adapt? What to tweak? Game is not giving exact direction. Or - they are giving it but only to experts.

In my opinion - that is wrong. They invented new principle of "adapting and tweaking" on old tactic engine that was never clear. For example - many players still do not know what will they got with balanced and what with positive mentality etc.

That is why I think it wasn't time for this change because I really sometimes do not know what are this signs for adapting. This is game - they should be really transparent. Sometimes I feel that it is so random

Edited November 15, 2022 by flauta kicma

[TheAwesomeGem]

I got West Ham on top of the league with 5 at the back and low block playing in Defensive Mentality on Counter-Attack/Long Balls alone. I have 3 different tactics based on the team I play against. It's really not that hard. It's fun in a way that Gegenpress is not the only way to play this year.

[muzza_m]

Personally I am finding it fairly easy.

But that is probably due to the fact I am playing as a top 4 team in the EPL. Probably my tactics as well.

4-2-3-1 DM attack tiki-taka custom.

Managed to beat Bayern 4-0, which I was not expecting.

Edited November 15, 2022 by muzza_m

[tozequio]

If anything the game has been too easy for a long time, so a little more of a challenge is not a bad thing at all. Besides, the game is supposed to be realistic. What's so fun about winning the League in the first season with Brentford?

[Micho21]

I believe that this editon is a bit harder (and that's great). Last year, I've started a save with Norwich and ended up 9th... this edition, with Southampton, I was 13th and sweating a lot. Just my experience, but I feel the game much more "reactive" to your tactics, especially during the match, if you don't pay attention to several aspects, probably you will fail.

[Dagenham_Dave]

19 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

But there is one thing - many of you say like that now player need to adapt, to tweak, to think more... But what to adapt? What to tweak? Game is not giving exact direction

There is more data in the game now than there has ever been in previous FMs

[Mcfc1894]

21 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

Firstly, thanks for great contribution to everyone. 

 

But there is one thing - many of you say like that now player need to adapt, to tweak, to think more... But what to adapt? What to tweak? Game is not giving exact direction. Or - they are giving it but only to experts.

In my opinion - that is wrong. They invented new principle of "adapting and tweaking" on old tactic engine that was never clear. For example - many players still do not know what will they got with balanced and what with positive mentality etc.

That is why I think it wasn't time for this change because I really sometimes do not know what are this signs for adapting. This is game - they should be really transparent. Sometimes I feel that it is so random

Would you rather the AI be clueless and not react to what you do in the game its not good in past editions you could use the same tactics without any problems the whole season. Maybe the way tactics work isn't super clear but there are many guides on forum that do help understand better 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Mcfc1894

[zindrinho]

22 hours ago, flauta kicma said:

But there is one thing - many of you say like that now player need to adapt, to tweak, to think more... But what to adapt? What to tweak? Game is not giving exact direction. Or - they are giving it but only to experts.

The game is giving directions to anyone who's watching the match, I'm not sure I understand what kind of directions you want? If attackers are running through you, mark them. If playmakers are carving you open, close them down, just basic football.

This year we're told the oppositon will really have a go at you at their home ground, so you need a more cautious approach/roles/setup away from home to deal with them. But who,what and where is up to you to decide from match to match depending on how the opposition is trying to take you on.

Watch games on comprehensive at least, if you're heavy underdog start the match on full, make adjustments and then go on comprehensive highlights.

[phnompenhandy]

On 16/11/2022 at 05:11, flauta kicma said:

Firstly, thanks for great contribution to everyone. 

 

But there is one thing - many of you say like that now player need to adapt, to tweak, to think more... But what to adapt? What to tweak? Game is not giving exact direction. Or - they are giving it but only to experts.

In my opinion - that is wrong. They invented new principle of "adapting and tweaking" on old tactic engine that was never clear. For example - many players still do not know what will they got with balanced and what with positive mentality etc.

That is why I think it wasn't time for this change because I really sometimes do not know what are this signs for adapting. This is game - they should be really transparent. Sometimes I feel that it is so random

Cleon spelt it all out in his new book, available as a free download

 

Football Manager Playbook

[pemell]

I've played FM and CM since CM2 and I couldn't agree more with OP, who I think explains it very well.

 

It is too hard to succeed these days, you need to be overly active and into details to perform well. Signing a very good assistant manager to help out won't help you achieve any longer.

 

For someone who has a family and a full time job, time is not just there and it just made me quit the game and promise I won't open it again.

 

Very sad to be honest. It's not what it used to be, relaxing and fun.