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[FM23] Netherlands (D7)

Tomijssel
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Tomijssel

Tomijssel

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first and foremost a shoutout to the original creators of this database:
See the following threads for the history of this database. 


Same as with FM22 I updated this database for FM23.

Gameplay wise the biggest change in comparison to last year is the addition of the Eerste klasse Zaterdag F and removal of the Eerste Klasse Zondag F.
In the Tweede Klasse some changes happened also, Tweede klasse Zaterdag K and Tweede klasse Zaterdag L got added, while Tweede klasse Zondag L got removed.
This causes the Tweede klasse to have an odd number of leagues in it, which required some tweaking with the advanced rules to make it work.

While the current advanced rules work flawlessly for relegations and promotion from and to the Vierde Divisie (Vierde Divisie having 4 divisions, Eerste Klasse having 11 divisions). The odd numbers of Eerste klasse and Tweede Klasse dvisions threw me all kinds of different errors during the database verification.
For now I solved this by changing the Eerste klasse Zondag B direct relegation spots from 1 to 2. 

Still, it is not completely flawless. Some work is left on the lower divisions relegation rules. In preparation for next year's football pyramid overhaul, the KNVB included some 'aggresive' relegation rules for the lower divisions. Depending on the size of the divison either 2 or 3 direct relegations spots are allocated per division. The Eerste Klasse and Tweede klasse stil only have 1 (Eerste Klasse) and 2 (Tweede Klasse) direct relegations spots in this database. i'll try to add those new relegation rules in the upcoming weeks. But I yet lack the skills and the nessesary knowledge to fully understand the different kind of relegation settings within the Advanced rules. 

Some rework also needs to be done on the Hoofdklasse division names. Per this season the Hoofdklasse is renamed to the Vierde Divisie.

further (minor) changes are but not limited to:

  • Reworked some advanced rules regarding the Period systems to make it more simplified and managable; 
  • Changed the subsition rules from "3 from 12 " to  "5 from 12 (max of 3 stoppages)" for regular competitions and "5 from 12 (max of 3 stoppages) + 1 Extra Time Sub" for cup and final related matches;
  • Deleted some obsolete database changes, because some of the added changes were already in the base game.;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding them to their corresponding Districtbeker region;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding them to the Dutch Lower Leagues;
  • Tweaked some clubs by adding missing 'stadiums' - In this case some amateur clubs were missing their 'sportparken'; 
  • Tweaked some cities by adding missing attributes; 

Database is verified and in-game I cannot find any flaws so far, making me confident enough that is is not breaking the game.

Nederland (D7).fmf

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Wolf_pd

Wolf_pd

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Still, it is not completely flawless. Some work is left on the lower divisions relegation rules. In preparation for next year's football pyramid overhaul, the KNVB included some 'aggresive' relegation rules for the lower divisions. 

This is build to Dutch real life divisions or somewhat fantasy? In case of reallife and you are looking for a solution for Saturday and Sunday football, I might have an idea that could help you (if you haven't found it already yourself).

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wfm18

wfm18

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On 16/11/2022 at 22:02, CyberOps said:

So did anyone do successful test runs ? Is it safe and good to use ?

Had no issues running this file, but if there are any changes coming up I'm waiting with my save before these changes are made.

 

On 19/11/2022 at 00:22, Wolf_pd said:

This is build to Dutch real life divisions or somewhat fantasy? In case of reallife and you are looking for a solution for Saturday and Sunday football, I might have an idea that could help you (if you haven't found it already yourself).

I believe this file is matching real life. Also good to mention next to this Saturday and Sunday football may be merged (Derde, Vierde Divisie and Eerste Klasse), I don't know about final decisions for this made by the KNVB: https://www.knvb.nl/nieuws/amateurvoetbal/competitiezaken/65980/verbeteringen-voetbalpiramide-voor-meer-spelplezier-en

Edited by wfm18
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Wolf_pd

Wolf_pd

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It may be merged, but would still have the situation that Saturday teams would strictly play the Saturday (at least the religious ones). Besides there is still the lower levels below that that are split.

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DurLennart

DurLennart

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On 19/11/2022 at 00:22, Wolf_pd said:

This is build to Dutch real life divisions or somewhat fantasy? In case of reallife and you are looking for a solution for Saturday and Sunday football, I might have an idea that could help you (if you haven't found it already yourself).

I believe the only 'fantasy' element that is currently in play is the 2 relegation places and relegation/promotion playoffs between the Keuken Kampioen Divisie and the Tweede Divisie. I believe it has been decided that from 2024 there will be 1 relegation and promotion spot in the KKD (no playoffs). But I think the implemented promotion system in the database suits the pyramid better as it is the same in all the other Dutch leagues. 

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Xavier Lukhas

Xavier Lukhas

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On 20/11/2022 at 21:50, Wolf_pd said:

It may be merged, but would still have the situation that Saturday teams would strictly play the Saturday (at least the religious ones). Besides there is still the lower levels below that that are split.

FM's match scheduler is notoriously picky at times. IIRC in the older DBs that have been made (tho' I can't check mine), it's a league rule that matches occur on a designated day (Saturday or Sunday). FM will gladly move matches to the next or previous day if it detects a conflict like a stadium being used for another fixture, cup matches, TV rescheduling of higher division matches affecting lower division clubs, TV rescheduling of cup matches, reserves/youth team matches, winter break, waterlogged pitches (happens often in winter!) or just for the lulz because FM can and therefore will. This happens even if you set your days very accurately since the lower divisions have very low fixture priority. That being said, considering how FM isn't particularly sensible with its fixture scheduling, it can at times be a good thing to move matches around a bit... and seriously infuriating at other times when you cannot easily figure out why a match was moved around.

In the older dbs it would often happen because there weren't stadiums for every teams early in the save, especially at lower levels. The very complex and long playoff between the Eerste Klasse and Hoofdklasse would get extended for weeks on end due to the lack of stadium availability, as a given stadium can only be used once per day. As the Dutch research team have added stadiums to the database throughout the years, it's been less prevalent. The disappearance of the Amateur Super Cup, which happened at the end of the season between the winners of the Districtsbekers also helped. But it still happens, and there's not much that can be done about it.

On 23/11/2022 at 09:39, DurLennart said:

I believe the only 'fantasy' element that is currently in play is the 2 relegation places and relegation/promotion playoffs between the Keuken Kampioen Divisie and the Tweede Divisie. I believe it has been decided that from 2024 there will be 1 relegation and promotion spot in the KKD (no playoffs). But I think the implemented promotion system in the database suits the pyramid better as it is the same in all the other Dutch leagues. 

It was indeed an explicit choice I've made for purpose of homogeneity (all leagues having similar rules regarding promotion/relegation and Periodes) and fluidity between the leagues. Moreover, due to the transfer/wages values and how in vanilla FM there are only two divisions, the money and reputation drastically increase once you reach the Eerste Divisie and therefore are forced to turn pro. It also helps to explain why there's not much incentive for IRL amateur clubs to turn pro due to the financial commitment it requires. I'm not a specialist of Dutch football, but the issue of that Tweede to Eerste Divisie promotion's been going on for years at this point with no definitive answer.

Edited by Xavier Lukhas
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CrowBar

CrowBar

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I noticed the added and modified leagues/cups just use the ABBA penalty system if a match is undecided. In reality that has been abandoned a few years ago. Also it skips extra time, which is not correct. On top of that I believe the away goal rules have been abandoned last season, for the play-offs as well.

It should be Extra time + regular penalties. Except the Johan Cruijff schaal of course, which goes straight to regular penalties.

Also may I suggest adding all the amateur teams that are attached to a professional team to the "Not allowed to promote" list in the Tweede Divisie? Such as Ajax Amateurs and SC Feyenoord. So if they do suddenly end up in the Tweede Divisie, that is as far as they can go because it is the highest amateur tier.

Edited by CrowBar
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wfm18

wfm18

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On 31/12/2022 at 15:39, CrowBar said:

Also may I suggest adding all the amateur teams that are attached to a professional team to the "Not allowed to promote" list in the Tweede Divisie? Such as Ajax Amateurs and SC Feyenoord. So if they do suddenly end up in the Tweede Divisie, that is as far as they can go because it is the highest amateur tier.

I agree with adding this to the file, not that I have seen this happen yet.

Also, when a team from the KKD gets relegated to the Jack's League their status automatically becomes 'amateur'. Within the Jack's league, clubs are often more 'semi-pro' than amateur, I don't know if this is a setting per league, but having the clubs in the Jack's League be 'semi-pro' would smoothen the promotion/relegation from amateur level to professional level I think.

Couple more changes for the winter update I'd say, would be great if you could look into those @Tomijssel

I hope that at one point SI and the KNVB reach to an agreement to implement the whole amateur structure into the game, they could just take this file and go :lol:

Edited by wfm18
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Tomijssel

Tomijssel

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@wfm18 definitely! I'm committed to port the previous version to FM24. Due to work / personal reasons I sadly can't start with porting over to FM24 right after the release. Upcoming weekend I wanna start with working on it. I hope everything will go smoothly so i can hopefully release a test version somewhere next week. 

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wfm18

wfm18

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1 hour ago, Tomijssel said:

@wfm18 definitely! I'm committed to port the previous version to FM24. Due to work / personal reasons I sadly can't start with porting over to FM24 right after the release. Upcoming weekend I wanna start with working on it. I hope everything will go smoothly so i can hopefully release a test version somewhere next week. 

Awesome, thanks! I unfortunately have no experience and know-how with editing competitions and rules, so I'm unable to assist you. But can't wait to help test!

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