Near Impossible to develop players? Peak Potential Caps? Limited influence on youth intake?

[MaBe7]

I began a save with Ajax after full release. 

They have an abundance of young talent and after spending hours getting excellent staff (because they start with none) and getting the facilities to the best I can, doing inv. player training, designing training schedules, I felt like all I was getting was yellow/orange down arrows on almost every single player. 18/19/20 year olds playing regular first team football, champions league football, on specific schedules and plans and doing player traits etc. - yet, ZERO development.

It makes the game so boring to not be able to mould young players in any way, or at the very least, make them better. Brian Brobbey (20 y/o) scored 32 league goals and is still worth £6-8m. Signing young CBs for 7-8m that by the end of the season are worth less than 4 despite having exceptional ratings. And by the end of year one, as I go through my players development, only 1 player has improved a single attribute. 

I thought this was weird, so I summed the next season (out of boredom) and by the end of year two, not a single player developed. Simming resulted in a 2nd place finish, league cup and CL last 16, yet Brobbey is still worth 6-8m, some of my star players are worth even less, and 90% of those exciting youth prospects who are playing minutes and B team football haven't developed and every time I look they're declining.

Why is there no clear way to make an impact in developing players? Am I missing something?

When checking the editor to try to solve the issue, many players (including Brobbey) have a Peak PA that is way under their -85 (145-160) range so they are just never going to develop? What is the point in this being part of the game? No player can ever grow if their peak is locked and their current ability peak is locked?

Has this been on previous FM's? It's been a while since you could really impact development like you could on FM12 doing player focus training and FM13 mentoring determination and things like that, but it seems in this game that the user is just wasting their time trying to develop players who ultimately either CANNOT develop because of the peak lock, or they just won't because it's so hard to influence? 

Also, why is it so difficult to now have regular quality youth intakes? Why on earth are teams that are renowned for developing talent producing nothing year after year, and for players that truly want the experience of investing in youth, getting the best coaches in u18s, finding a HoYD and all the bells and whistles, along with being a high reputation club, only to produce 3 star players every year? SURELY there is a way to impact this that makes sense to people who enjoy that part of the game, like actually spending club money to recruit and it paying off and you being able to actually influence the long term success and home-grown talent. 

This feels like the first FM game ever where nothing really impacts the game. You just have to sign good players, use the right tactics that suit the game engine and just roll through season after season. It really is very disconnected from the user being able to truly have an impact and influence on the club. Really disappointing. 

And if I have genuinely missed the mark here and missed some features I'd love to hear how I can improve my experience, but right now this game feels like an absolute dud. 

I hope to hear something from an admin to clear up some of these issues as I don't want to end 12+ years of playing this incredible game. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by MaBe7

[MaBe7]

In my opinion there are so many possibilities being missed when developing players

Some examples: Playing a youth player (16-18) in his first senior game should impact his mental skills. Determination going up after getting a few minutes off the bench at the end of a league game/going up after a first start or down if the youth player is played in a match that is too high profile and he ends with a 5.90>, questioning his ability to play at the level, missing a chance (striker) or getting beaten to a header (Cb) or taken on multiple times (FB). This makes it so much more dynamic when choosing the right moment for the player, and protecting him from these situations. It makes it so much more immersive to have this impact. Also, telling that individual "well done" in the dressing room, or at least acknowledging the debut in the conversations afterwards. There MUST be more ways to work with these players. Confidence impacting quality should be extremely dynamic between 16-19. For instance. If my 17 year old youth player is scoring 25 goals in u18, surely his finishing would go up with confidence significantly in the early stages, (for example, 12->16 because he is high on confidence) and then you play him in the right moment in the first team and it sticks, or play him in the wrong game where he gets bullied and you find it right back down at 13. This makes choosing the right loan spell important and other features that can just connect the user with the development of young players and engaging in these kinds of choices. 

When it comes to players 20-24, why is it near impossible to mould them into a player that fits the system, eg. making crossing a priority for your young full back and it actually changing his stat, or getting feedback in the early stages from a coach that it looks like this player is never going to improve in that area and its worth thinking about a different role, or moving the player on. There must be SOMETHING that can be done to make this game more in tune with development. If I signed a pressing forward who had lower finishing and wanted him to improve on it, it should either improve, or the coach tells me he just isn't a natural finisher, then at least I know what I am working with. Right now it seems like you can waste years on a player with no feedback other than the player not liking the training schedule. The coaches need to be giving better and more important feedback. Even set piece takers, its genuinely impossible to make a player, (even if they have high technique etc) a better corner or free kick taker, when in reality a player can improve these things if it is part of their training. 

Finally, I would LOVE the ability to actually give players stat boosts because of my style of management. Example - Pep improves every players passing, touch and decision making because of the coach he is, so when signing a player with some potential, Pep's style and philosophy would give that player a boost in those stats. Having a style of a manager and being able to chose what is important to you would be a hugely important and engaging feature. Signing a player with 18 passing, and when he arrives it is only 16 because he was playing under a manager who emphasised passing, whereas the user emphasises (for example) fitness, work rate, crossing and these are all reflected after the player has spend some months at the club (and these stats get a boost) and in addition if you had (for example) Mason Mount (20 work rate) and your philosophy was centred around work rate and pressing, then Mount is more likely to regularly turn in effective performances because he fits the managers style. This is a more immersive way to recruit players that fit your systems, develop a system and philosophy and be able to change it over time (Pre-season meetings: I want us to be ruthless from set pieces this season [boost: corners, free kicks, heading, marking]) and gives huge flexibility and dynamism to signing players and having a plan. Adversely, going into a club with players that don't fit your system would make it much harder in the earlier stages. 

If anyone thinks anything of these suggestions please let me know. But I'm getting exhausted by the lack of impact I can have in this game and it feels like going through the motions, signing the best players and trying to win games and that's all. I can get that from mobile games. I hope to see some changes in the near future.

[FCP_Football]

6 hours ago, MaBe7 said:

I began a save with Ajax after full release. 

They have an abundance of young talent and after spending hours getting excellent staff (because they start with none) and getting the facilities to the best I can, doing inv. player training, designing training schedules, I felt like all I was getting was yellow/orange down arrows on almost every single player. 18/19/20 year olds playing regular first team football, champions league football, on specific schedules and plans and doing player traits etc. - yet, ZERO development.

It makes the game so boring to not be able to mould young players in any way, or at the very least, make them better. Brian Brobbey (20 y/o) scored 32 league goals and is still worth £6-8m. Signing young CBs for 7-8m that by the end of the season are worth less than 4 despite having exceptional ratings. And by the end of year one, as I go through my players development, only 1 player has improved a single attribute. 

I thought this was weird, so I summed the next season (out of boredom) and by the end of year two, not a single player developed. Simming resulted in a 2nd place finish, league cup and CL last 16, yet Brobbey is still worth 6-8m, some of my star players are worth even less, and 90% of those exciting youth prospects who are playing minutes and B team football haven't developed and every time I look they're declining.

Why is there no clear way to make an impact in developing players? Am I missing something?

When checking the editor to try to solve the issue, many players (including Brobbey) have a Peak PA that is way under their -85 (145-160) range so they are just never going to develop? What is the point in this being part of the game? No player can ever grow if their peak is locked and their current ability peak is locked?

Has this been on previous FM's? It's been a while since you could really impact development like you could on FM12 doing player focus training and FM13 mentoring determination and things like that, but it seems in this game that the user is just wasting their time trying to develop players who ultimately either CANNOT develop because of the peak lock, or they just won't because it's so hard to influence? 

Also, why is it so difficult to now have regular quality youth intakes? Why on earth are teams that are renowned for developing talent producing nothing year after year, and for players that truly want the experience of investing in youth, getting the best coaches in u18s, finding a HoYD and all the bells and whistles, along with being a high reputation club, only to produce 3 star players every year? SURELY there is a way to impact this that makes sense to people who enjoy that part of the game, like actually spending club money to recruit and it paying off and you being able to actually influence the long term success and home-grown talent. 

This feels like the first FM game ever where nothing really impacts the game. You just have to sign good players, use the right tactics that suit the game engine and just roll through season after season. It really is very disconnected from the user being able to truly have an impact and influence on the club. Really disappointing. 

And if I have genuinely missed the mark here and missed some features I'd love to hear how I can improve my experience, but right now this game feels like an absolute dud. 

I hope to hear something from an admin to clear up some of these issues as I don't want to end 12+ years of playing this incredible game. 

Noticed this as well, players take forever to go up one stat, then one month later it's dropped again. 

 

Developing youth used to be enjoyable, but like everything else in this game it's now a chore!. 

 

It's a shame I gave FM 2023 a download on the game pass and I'm enjoying it, but small things make me miss fm2006,07,08,12,13, I actually bought them.

This is one of these things were they have tried to make it more realistic (or less gamey) so you can't develop a lot of youngsters, like the change to be able to sign loads of 16 year olds for low cost.  The problem is people found that fun so why remove it?, Games are meant to be fun!.

Edited November 13, 2022 by FCP_Football

[crusadertsar]

Are we playing the same game ?

Are you setting up the training routines yourself?

My youth players develop just as well as they did in FM22 or FM21. And I'm just letting my assistant take care of general training this time around. There literally has been no change to that aspect the game in years. And it works just fine. Don't expect to see much development from your youngster in only 2 years. That's just not realistic. It's a slow process in real life too. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by crusadertsar

[CARRERA]

To be fair, they said for FM22 that they made changes to the development curve of players. However, I can also confirm that players develop according their potential. 

Also using the assistant to schedule training 

[Dotsworthy]

Peak PA has been discussed before and I believe it's simply their previous highest PA from previous editions of FM and has no influence.

Another thing to note is that a players transfer value is also dictated by factors outside of a players CA growth. Reputation and the league they are playing in also effect this. I don't know the Eredivisie well but this might explain why players are still low valued even after a good season, although if it's particularly low that could indicate a bug. Also, youth intake can be misleading. I had a 5 star and a 3 star player in my youth intake and it turned out that one had a PA of 160 and the other 164. 

As for development, it has slowed significantly but seems to allow more growth after 24. It's a tricky balance because it was a little too easy in the past to create an army of 21 year old model citizens with maxed out CA, but FM22 mentoring seemed insignificant and seeing a player not grow after a year was frustrating.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Dotsworthy

[MaBe7]

17 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Are we playing the same game ?

Are you setting up the training routines yourself?

My youth players develop just as well as they did in FM22 or FM21. And I'm just letting my assistant take care of general training this time around. There literally has been no change to that aspect the game in years. And it works just fine. Don't expect to see much development from your youngster in only 2 years. That's just not realistic. It's a slow process in real life too. 

I did my own training yes, and always have and not really had issues like this. 

Just constant down arrows from players is frustrating me and losing determination. Seems like even players that I sign immediately lose their main attributes (dribbling going from 17-16 within a couple of months from like 22/23 year old players)

Didn't really experience this on FM22. And I'm winning games and they play well, but just no development. Hit 3rd year with 19-21 year olds playing 30+ first team games a season and they haven't visually improved so I'm going to restart the save and try a different approach. I simmed to the end of the 3rd year to experiment but it ruined the save really so just going to start from scratch and not waste as much time on players that don't seem to be able to grow. 

[MaBe7]

16 hours ago, CARRERA said:

To be fair, they said for FM22 that they made changes to the development curve of players. However, I can also confirm that players develop according their potential. 

Also using the assistant to schedule training 

Who (Real players) have you had success developing? I signed Ronnie Edwards for Ajax and in 3 years he didn't improve at anything and lost some and reduced determination. When checking his peak PA in editor it is ticked on his current PA rating so it makes sense he wouldn't get any better. On my beta save he went to Newcastle and by 4th season he was worth nothing and got no better. I'm just wondering if real life players are sometimes totally restricted from improving? 

[MaBe7]

16 hours ago, Dotsworthy said:

Peak PA has been discussed before and I believe it's simply their previous highest PA from previous editions of FM and has no influence.

Another thing to note is that a players transfer value is also dictated by factors outside of a players CA growth. Reputation and the league they are playing in also effect this. I don't know the Eredivisie well but this might explain why players are still low valued even after a good season, although if it's particularly low that could indicate a bug. Also, youth intake can be misleading. I had a 5 star and a 3 star player in my youth intake and it turned out that one had a PA of 160 and the other 164. 

As for development, it has slowed significantly but seems to allow more growth after 24. It's a tricky balance because it was a little too easy in the past to create an army of 21 year old model citizens with maxed out CA, but FM22 mentoring seemed insignificant and seeing a player not grow after a year was frustrating.

I went through the editor with some of the young players I signed that didn't improve and they all have locked peak potential at or near their current ability which leads me to believe they won't develop and this is in line with what I'm experiencing in the game. Van de ven, Ositgard, Bornauw, R.Edwards, Brobbey all did not improve at all over 3 years and when looking on editor they have peak potential at their CA in-game. In my beta save only Bornauw had gone on to be a good European player but stats wise I don't think he'd improved. 

Going back to FM12-15 I just felt like you could really mould players and that's gone. They're just on a development arc and follow it based on their natural attributes. I agree that FM12-15 was too easy to just mentor a player to 20 determination but if you look at the historical best teams they had those leaders that influenced other players (Vieira, Keane, Koeman, Puyol) but now having these leaders seems to make no odds. I always liked signing that 33-34 year old who was just mentally superb and have value for that player, they don't seem to have that now. 

I'd just like to see some of what I am doing having an influence rather than what is actually happening right now. But I'll stick with it and try to figure it out. 

Thanks for your response. 

[crusadertsar]

You could always go back to FM17 if you aren't happy with how current game works.

[MaBe7]

On 14/11/2022 at 05:34, crusadertsar said:

You could always go back to FM17 if you aren't happy with how current game works.

Good post :S

[bowieinspace]

I play an Athletic Club save every year so am limited to developing academy players or signing the few basque options out there, so I’m very familiar with development in fm including fm23.

I’ve had no issues personally seeing development from my young players, and this includes both existing players and newgens.

in my save I’ve seen substantial current ability improvements from a few existing players such as Nico Williams and Dani Vivian, and then of course I’ve had a few who never really kicked on much as well. Unai Vencedor is perhaps my most interesting as he saw little improvement at 21-23 then suddenly kicked on a fair bit at 24 and 25 years old, which was cool to see. Vencedor has a fixed peak potential ability roughly around his starting CA which he has now definitely exceeded. When the full game released I looked up his PA in the pre game editor as I’d had such little development from him I was intrigued if he’d had a significant PA reduction for fm23, and it just appeared he had failed to achieve his potential in my save, but then he suddenly started seeing those attributes improve in my save at a slightly older age. He may never reach his PA but he had certainly improved noticeably in those later years. I can echo others on this thread referencing that peak PA is as far as I am aware a historical value that doesn’t impact the game. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by bowieinspace

[Stabæk]

 

I also noticed this, playing the same way you do. Although i started my save during beta, but i see that you started after the full release.  Made a similar post, though maybe wrong forum. 

[Dutchy1983]

It's a joke at the moment. Someone show me a screenshot of a players crossing increasing! I've had half my squad training it almost a season, not one guy up 1 in the attribute