NOT SOUTHGATE'S LAST HURRAH: The England 2022 campaign

[Baptista_8]

4 minutes ago, mrw072 said:

For me the problem isn't so much the defence.  It's up front.  I'll be honest - I don't watch friendlies anymore - maybe highlights, but I personally don't think Kane is the same player he is for England, as he is for Spurs.  He seems to play too deep.  I'm just not sure where the goals are going to come from.  Having said that though I think England will walk through the group and into the Quarters.  Anything can happen after that I guess.  I know he won't do it, but i'd have Callum Wilson in the starting X1.

I said the same earlier. Wilson running in behind with all that creativity around him, I think we may well be better off.

[JD nawrat]

[skybluedave]

Now doing it for clubs that developed them. We have 2

[The_jagster]

57 minutes ago, mrw072 said:

For me the problem isn't so much the defence.  It's up front.  I'll be honest - I don't watch friendlies anymore - maybe highlights, but I personally don't think Kane is the same player he is for England, as he is for Spurs.  He seems to play too deep.  I'm just not sure where the goals are going to come from.  Having said that though I think England will walk through the group and into the Quarters.  Anything can happen after that I guess.  I know he won't do it, but i'd have Callum Wilson in the starting X1.

It's Southgate. No England player looks good in attack, even Sterling is generally quite iffy but he does tend to come up with a few goals.

[Astafjevs]

1 hour ago, Baptista_8 said:

I said the same earlier. Wilson running in behind with all that creativity around him, I think we may well be better off.

You'd pick Callum Wilson in the XI over Kane?

[adhikapp]

Moans about the England 26-man World Cup squad:

I get the loyalty of bringing Maguire over Tomori, but one is Manutds 4th choice CB, and one is a starter for AC Milan. And Tomori has recovery pace. At least he should've taken Guehi. Logically, this should be Maguire's last tournament because if Southgate keeps picking him even if he does fck all for United, he's blinded by something. I love to be proven wrong by Maguire, but as a Manutd fan, I've waited the past 18 months for any consistency.

Also, I don't get the hate for Coady. His main criticism is "he only can play in a back 3" but he's proven at Everton that he's alright in a back 4. I mean I'd rather take one of Tomori/Guehi, or maybe a backup LB like Mitchell, but Southgate needs someone to lighten up that boring squad he has, and Coady seems like a lovely bloke. I'd rather people moan about how Maguire is still in there.

That midfield is also trash for the simple fact that Phillips is barely match-fit, Henderson is barely in-form, and Gallagher is barely playing for Chelsea. 2 of the 3 would be fine, but not all of them when they're all not selected on merit. JWP, while not in-form himself due to the club he's playing for, should be in that team above all of Phillips, Hendo, and Gallagher for actually being fit and durable. I genuinely think Henderson's finally past it, and this is his last tournament. 

Praises about the England 26-man World Cup squad:

My views on Benny Blanco has changed - he definitely deserves a callup, especially after James' injury. Thought Arteta switching him to RB this season would deter his chances since England definitely don't lack one of those, but it actually showed White's versatility. The timing couldn't even be more perfect with Walker struggling with injury, Trent being out of form, James missing the World Cup altogether, and Wan-Bissaka has since gone AWOL. And since he's also a CB option, it means at least Mings isn't there, so that's a thumbs up from me.

Seeing Maddison there is a relief, he was probably the main selection I was invested in. I bet everyone was gonna be livid when his name wasn't on the 'midfielders', but cheered when his name was written in the 'forwards' section. Southgate probably got bullied by the public into his selection, but it's hard to argue that he didn't deserve it. Was half-expecting to moan about Southgate selecting Bowen or Sancho ahead of him, but he got this one right. Hope he actually plays him now.

And Callum Wilson is such a wild-card selection, but one the whole nation should get behind. He's quality. If he was like 5 years younger, he'd be playing at a Champions League club right now. Abraham would feel a bit hard done by since he's been in most of the squad post-Euro 2020/1, but seems like Southgate doesn't like him that much. Selecting Wilson only seemed a surprise cause his last callup has been a while back. His legs are fragile, though, so that's the only risk about him.

[pearcey_90]

2 hours ago, mrw072 said:

For me the problem isn't so much the defence.  It's up front.  I'll be honest - I don't watch friendlies anymore - maybe highlights, but I personally don't think Kane is the same player he is for England, as he is for Spurs.  He seems to play too deep.  I'm just not sure where the goals are going to come from.  Having said that though I think England will walk through the group and into the Quarters.  Anything can happen after that I guess.  I know he won't do it, but i'd have Callum Wilson in the starting X1.

Tactical set up usually sees Kane dropping deep because he’s starved of anything so comes looking, with the wingers usually deep too. 

Have the confidence to be 10 yards further up the pitch as a team, Kane won’t need to drop as much. Callum Wilson will work harder chasing balls up top than Kane, but he would face the same issue as Kane, just instead of dropping deep to get ball, he’ll go round harassing opponents on the ball like he has done for us at times. 
 

Trippier, Stones, Maguire, Shaw

Rice, Bellingham, Mount

Saka, Kane, Foden

I find it hard to believe that side can’t play a bit further up the pitch and retain possession well against majority of opposition. The left side would be the concern, but drop Phillips in for Mount and have two sitting in front of defence for added protection. 

Foden/Saka are hard workers too, so wouldn’t leave full backs on their own, they tire from getting up down, got Sterling/Rashford/Grealish to bring on for fresh leagues. 

[Baptista_8]

1 hour ago, Astafjevs said:

You'd pick Callum Wilson in the XI over Kane?

I said we may well be better off. Do you not agree that Kane generally underperforms for England?

[The_jagster]

36 minutes ago, Baptista_8 said:

I said we may well be better off. Do you not agree that Kane generally underperforms for England?

Do you not think any attacker is going to look a bit blunt when playing in Southgate's system?

[Bootador]

I think it's a bad idea to rush him back into the team, but if you can get Kyle Walker fit for France in the QF it's worth the squad slot imo.

No idea why we're taking Madison, the guy aint gonna play. Bring another right back

Edited November 10, 2022 by Bootador

[Citizen Sandman]

5 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Dele Alli, Ross Barkley, Ryan Bertrand, Nathaniel Clyne, Joe Hart, Danny Welbeck, Ashley Young, Phil Jones, Michael Keane, Theo Walcott, Ruben Loftus-Cheek, Danny Rose, Jesse Lingard, Jack Butland.

These lads have all proved they can do a job for England before, yet he insists on just picking the same old favourites.

Seemed alot of effort here.

 

4 hours ago, mrw072 said:

For me the problem isn't so much the defence.  It's up front.  I'll be honest - I don't watch friendlies anymore - maybe highlights, but I personally don't think Kane is the same player he is for England, as he is for Spurs.  He seems to play too deep.  I'm just not sure where the goals are going to come from.  Having said that though I think England will walk through the group and into the Quarters.  Anything can happen after that I guess.  I know he won't do it, but i'd have Callum Wilson in the starting X1.

Maguire will play every game

[skybluedave]

I'd have taken Welbeck

[Barry Cartman]

I'd have taken Welbeck over Maguire also

Awful once again for Utd last night, distribution was poor and he should have been sent off for a 2nd Yellow card for once again doing that challenge where he steps out and thinks he can win the ball but gets nowhere and is turned  

[Barry Cartman]

Luis Enrique leaves out Sergio Ramos and goes with the players he has been bringing through over the past 12 months, rather than continuing using someone who has won trophies at international level and would only be in the side for 'experience' 

I'm sure having a bunch of 33+ year old centre backs by the next world cup will have paid off though 

[pearcey_90]

15 hours ago, Bootador said:

I think it's a bad idea to rush him back into the team, but if you can get Kyle Walker fit for France in the QF it's worth the squad slot imo.

Only game he needs to play. Keep Mbappe quiet by matching his pace for pace.

14 minutes ago, Barry Cartman said:

Luis Enrique leaves out Sergio Ramos and goes with the players he has been bringing through over the past 12 months, rather than continuing using someone who has won trophies at international level and would only be in the side for 'experience' 

I'm sure having a bunch of 33+ year old centre backs by the next world cup will have paid off though 

Considering it's only like 18 months after this to next Tournament, effectively March - Nov of competitive Internationals, you have to assume Maguire/Dier/Stones/Coady will go to Euros barring any injuries and Southgate is in charge still, because all will be either playing regularly or at a big club to keep them in Southgate's mind.

[Rafalution]

17 hours ago, Baptista_8 said:

I said we may well be better off. Do you not agree that Kane generally underperforms for England?

England generally underperform as a whole. 

[Constantine]

3 hours ago, pearcey_90 said:

Only game he needs to play. Keep Mbappe quiet by matching his pace for pace.

Considering it's only like 18 months after this to next Tournament, effectively March - Nov of competitive Internationals, you have to assume Maguire/Dier/Stones/Coady will go to Euros barring any injuries and Southgate is in charge still, because all will be either playing regularly or at a big club to keep them in Southgate's mind.

I'm sorry but Walker couldn't keep Mbappe quiet if somehow there were three Kyle Walkers guarding one Mbappe. Pace or no pace.

[Barry Cartman]

2 minutes ago, Constantine said:

I'm sorry but Walker couldn't keep Mbappe quiet if somehow there were three Kyle Walkers guarding one Mbappe. Pace or no pace.

If only there had been several games over the last few seasons where this happened 

[Smallen]

Was gonna say, hasn't Walker done exactly that several times . Did it about 6 months ago!

[Constantine]

Have no memory of that. If that's true, I take it all back.

Cheers.

[Barry Cartman]

Mbappe peaked against City for Monaco and he was against Sagna 

[craigcwwe]

Even AWB pocketed Mbappe. 

[Smallen]

Mbappe would absolutely murder Trippier/TAA mind, so we really better hope Walker's back if it comes us playing France. 

[Rob1981]

We aren’t playing France, they are bottling it. Denmark or Mexico in the quarters.

[deltablue]

3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

We aren’t playing France, they are bottling it. Denmark or Mexico in the quarters.

Now that would be flying in the face of the World Cup's most reliable trend.

[Barry Cartman]

Even Joe Gomez has pocketed Mbappe 

[Rob1981]

It’s got to happen for Mexico sooner or later. They can’t go out in the R16 forever  

[sc91]

16 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

It’s got to happen for Mexico sooner or later. They can’t go out in the R16 forever  

Not even sure Mexico have a decent team. Raul Jimenez can barely run and hes currently in the squad. 

[deltablue]

I think Corona's missing through injury as well.

[Tummyowl]

I really want England to do well... However... Maguire is dreadful, Henderson is dreadful, Dier? Gallagher? 

A combination of Philips (granted he is not fit), Rice and Bellingham with Saka, Rashford, Foden ahead of them does not seem too bad. Sterling usually does well for England. Kane is so-so. I have not been that impressed with Grealish since his move.

The defence is poor, and I do not rate Pickford at all.

[Smallen]

England Pickford is one of the best goalkeepers in the world.

[GunmaN1905]

15 minutes ago, sc91 said:

Not even sure Mexico have a decent team. Raul Jimenez can barely run and hes currently in the squad. 

I'm sure Cuauhtemoc Blanco, Borgetti and Rafa Marquez still have one more tournament in them.

[sc91]

20 minutes ago, deltablue said:

I think Corona's missing through injury as well.

There's been videos on Jimenez training (and being unable to even lift his leg over a tiny fence) and the comment from the Mexico fans (for those who can understand a bit of Spanish) has been hilarious. . The one legged little donkey coming home for Christmas the one that stuck out.

[MIR17]

16 hours ago, Tummyowl said:

I really want England to do well... However... Maguire is dreadful, Henderson is dreadful, Dier? Gallagher? 

A combination of Philips (granted he is not fit), Rice and Bellingham with Saka, Rashford, Foden ahead of them does not seem too bad. Sterling usually does well for England. Kane is so-so. I have not been that impressed with Grealish since his move.

The defence is poor, and I do not rate Pickford at all.

Gallagher is just a fringe player who won’t play so I don’t see the issue. Rice, Bellingham, Phillips, Henderson, even Mount and Maddison can play the number 8 role if needed, so I’d be surprised if Gallagher gets a kick.

Our centre backs certainly don’t look great, but it is what it is. I think we have some very good attacking players still. 

[Smallen]

 

Talking Tactics for England manager imo

[Rob1981]

Ramsdale  

Why keep Maguire and Stones and then swap out the keeper they have played with 50-odd times?

[Smallen]

I didn't even see Ramsdale there to be fair! Just assumed Pickford. 

No need for Ramsdale. England Pickford's distribution is great and he's probably the best keeper we've had in my lifetime.

[Smallen]

We really need a good left footed centre back to come through at some point though.

[Tummyowl]

1 hour ago, Smallen said:

I didn't even see Ramsdale there to be fair! Just assumed Pickford. 

No need for Ramsdale. England Pickford's distribution is great and he's probably the best keeper we've had in my lifetime.

How old are you? Interested that you think Pickford is England's best keeper in however long

[Rob1981]

Best keeper since Seaman by a mile.

[Pukey]

People act like Pickford is some horrific keeper, and yeah he had a truly awful period what, 2 or 3 years ago? But I can't recall him ever being bad for England, and he's been in good form for ages now, and played a huge part in keeping Everton up. Ramsdale's been good too, but there's just no point dropping Pickford.

[Smallen]

13 minutes ago, Tummyowl said:

How old are you? Interested that you think Pickford is England's best keeper in however long

I’m working on the basis that England Pickford is not the same as non-England Pickford  

My main/only memory of Seaman is that World Cup so I don’t view him favourably. Probably harsh tbf.

[themadsheep2001]

1 hour ago, Pukey said:

People act like Pickford is some horrific keeper, and yeah he had a truly awful period what, 2 or 3 years ago? But I can't recall him ever being bad for England, and he's been in good form for ages now, and played a huge part in keeping Everton up. Ramsdale's been good too, but there's just no point dropping Pickford.

Been England's best keeper since peak Seaman. @Smallen like that shape, I'd put Shaw in on the left as he's very comfortable with that kind of build up. 

[GunmaN1905]

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Been England's best keeper since peak Seaman. @Smallen like that shape, I'd put Shaw in on the left as he's very comfortable with that kind of build up. 

You make it's sound like it's some kind of accomplishment.

He's been great for NT, but he's also the only one who wasn't a liability and the weakest link on the team for as long as I can remember.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

You make it's sound like it's some kind of accomplishment.

He's been great for NT, but he's also the only one who wasn't a liability and the weakest link on the team for as long as I can remember.

Presume you're too young to remember peak Seaman. Legitimately one of the best keepers in the world at his best. 

[GunmaN1905]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Presume you're too young to remember peak Seaman. Legitimately one of the best keepers in the world at his best. 

Yeah, I didn't follow EPL at all until early-00s or something.

Don't remember any mistakes of in '96, '98, '00 tournaments, but Ronaldinho's goal marked his career.

After him, every single GK you had was a liability that could ruin the match at any given moment and was definitely your biggest obstacle to getting decent results.

James, Robinson, Carson, Green, Hart and whoever else mad an appearance were nowhere close to the quality of the rest of the team.

While Pickford has been great, anyone not making blunders would've been a huge upgrade, that's what I was getting at.

[MIR17]

3 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Yeah, I didn't follow EPL at all until early-00s or something.

Don't remember any mistakes of in '96, '98, '00 tournaments, but Ronaldinho's goal marked his career.

After him, every single GK you had was a liability that could ruin the match at any given moment and was definitely your biggest obstacle to getting decent results.

James, Robinson, Carson, Green, Hart and whoever else mad an appearance were nowhere close to the quality of the rest of the team.

While Pickford has been great, anyone not making blunders would've been a huge upgrade, that's what I was getting at.

Ronaldinho’s goal didn’t mark his career at all. He was like 38 and already past his best at that point. It wasn’t a great end to his international career, but I imagine you have to have only seen him at that tournament for that to be your only memory of him.

He won keeper of the tournament in Euro 96 and was outstanding. He’s comfortably the best England keeper in my lifetime.

His Euro 96 performances especially vs Spain in the shootout are way more iconic than the Ronaldinho chip when he was only still playing because of a lack of a younger keeper coming through 

[skybluedave]

Think Seaman was like 38 at that WC and way past his peak. 

Personally I quite liked David James and think he should have started more. He had mistakes in him though (France 04 wasn't great) But he had that big personality you need from a keeper in international tournments. Hindsight is lovely but Capello really should have gone with him over Green 2010

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Yeah, I didn't follow EPL at all until early-00s or something.

Don't remember any mistakes of in '96, '98, '00 tournaments, but Ronaldinho's goal marked his career.

After him, every single GK you had was a liability that could ruin the match at any given moment and was definitely your biggest obstacle to getting decent results.

James, Robinson, Carson, Green, Hart and whoever else mad an appearance were nowhere close to the quality of the rest of the team.

While Pickford has been great, anyone not making blunders would've been a huge upgrade, that's what I was getting at.

That was Seaman well past this best at that point. Genuinely incredible keeper at his hair best. And was actually not remotely error prone. 

[skybluedave]

Still can't believe he was like 40 when he did this