Does 'Pass into space' work with much shorter passing?

[Vanchatron]

I've been having a lot of trouble recently with keeping possession and often end games with around 30% possession or so.  So I figured it may be worth switching to very short passing so that I can keep the ball better.  Whether this is the right option or not, I don't know.

Anyway, I run 433 and also want my wingers to 'get in behind' so I've turned on the 'pass into space' option in the hopes that it'll make my wingers make runs past the opposition's back line.  The thing I've been wondering though is will it work with having my team setup for much shorter passing, as I'm assuming any ball played in behind would probably not count as a "short" pass and would be more kind of direct and long.  So will the 'pass into space' and 'much shorter passing' options cancel each other out or are they okay to run at the same time?

Thanks.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Vanchatron

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

Would a better idea not be to ask the players who receive the ball in a certain position where you are thinking "play the pass into the wingers" have the "attempt more risks" PI ticked?

That way, when the ball isnt on theyll look to play short, but when the ball is on, theyll look to play into the space?

I would suspect youll need to be prepared for some misplaced passes in the buildup though if youre going for this kind of approach.

You might also want to consider a "switch ball to wide areas" PPM that can be trained into your players?

Id also say a third possible option is turn up the teams overall passing directness so they look for those kind of balls more often, but then turn down the passing directness of certain players who you dont want giving the ball away needlessly?

[Os]

Trying to keep possession and pass into space contradict each other.

[Vanchatron]

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.  Also, on an unrelated note... How do I see each league's top scorers & top assists?

[RodriYouPlonker]

I have had success in previous years using both "much shorter passing" and "pass into space" at the same time, and on my first little save this year I won the world cup with England using a tactic that had both (Although England seem very OP this year so I wouldn't read too much into that)

Its hard to answer your question accurately though as you cannot look at any instruction/selection of instructions through a singular prism without taking into account the rest of the tactic. If you are looking to keep control of the ball then something is clearly going wrong averaging 30% possession and so I would definitely switch off "pass into space" until you figure out a way to keep hold of the ball better as this instruction leads to more "risky" passes

The 4-3-3 is a very good shape for keeping hold of the ball so there is nothing wrong with your formation but the rest of your player roles and instructions need looking at (unless you are one of the worst teams in your league in terms of the quality of your players, in which case you can expect to go without the ball for long periods of a game)

The two things that spring to mind first are your Tempo and your Defensive instructions - especially your Defensive Line and pressing

If you are instructing your players to play at a very high tempo they will naturally lose the ball more often and keep hold of it for smaller periods of time

If you are instructing your team to sit deep and be passive when out of possession then your possession stats will naturally drop as you are allowing the opponent more time and space on the ball and encouraging them to keep it for longer

Could you post your full tactic with player roles and all instructions? It would be more helpful to see the entire picture

Edited November 9, 2022 by RodriYouPlonker

[Lesterfan_Cambiasso]

16 minutes ago, Os said:

Trying to keep possession and pass into space contradict each other.

Not really.....the poster is trying to find the optimal balance than in certain situations he wants a pass into space.

[寸身辛木]

If you just want more possession, you should probably look at things like your attacking width, tempo, having more support duties, the way your team wins the ball back.

[Vanchatron]

1 hour ago, RodriYouPlonker said:

I have had success in previous years using both "much shorter passing" and "pass into space" at the same time, and on my first little save this year I won the world cup with England using a tactic that had both (Although England seem very OP this year so I wouldn't read too much into that)

Its hard to answer your question accurately though as you cannot look at any instruction/selection of instructions through a singular prism without taking into account the rest of the tactic. If you are looking to keep control of the ball then something is clearly going wrong averaging 30% possession and so I would definitely switch off "pass into space" until you figure out a way to keep hold of the ball better as this instruction leads to more "risky" passes

The 4-3-3 is a very good shape for keeping hold of the ball so there is nothing wrong with your formation but the rest of your player roles and instructions need looking at (unless you are one of the worst teams in your league in terms of the quality of your players, in which case you can expect to go without the ball for long periods of a game)

The two things that spring to mind first are your Tempo and your Defensive instructions - especially your Defensive Line and pressing

If you are instructing your players to play at a very high tempo they will naturally lose the ball more often and keep hold of it for smaller periods of time

If you are instructing your team to sit deep and be passive when out of possession then your possession stats will naturally drop as you are allowing the opponent more time and space on the ball and encouraging them to keep it for longer

Could you post your full tactic with player roles and all instructions? It would be more helpful to see the entire picture

 

Okay so this is the first time I've played FM in years, but "used" to be really good at it, so I've probably got a lot to catch up on.

I'm playing as Spurs using a 4231 DM Wide formation.  Roles as as follows:

 

ST - Advanced Forward (Attack)

Wingers - Inside Forward (Attack)

CAM - Advanced Playmaker (Support)

CDM 1 - Defensive Midfielder (Support)

CDM 2 - Defensive Midfielder (Defend)

Fullbacks - Fullback (Automatic)

CBs - Central Defender (Defend)

 

I've not really messed about too much with the width or anything like that and kept everything as default/balanced.  I tried the pass into space and shorter passing, but didn't really seem to make any difference so I just reverted back to balanced.

[The3points]

3 hours ago, Vanchatron said:

Thanks, I'll give that a shot.  Also, on an unrelated note... How do I see each league's top scorers & top assists?

Click on the trophy icon on the left hand side, depending on the size of your screen it might be labelled Competitions. Click on the tournament you want to see. On the bottom right hand corner there should be stats such as goals, average rating, clean sheets etc. Click on the player stats arrow and see more.

For leagues your team doesn't play in, type the country or the first part of the name (Italian or Champions) in the search bar at the top and find the league in the results. (Don't hit enter). From there, same goes with finding the stats

As for your tactical question, I think it can. Combined with the right roles and Tempo I think pass into space is a good tool against certain teams. In a save I have the combo with Lazio (Higher Tempo as well), and that leads to nice buildup with balls in behind their line finding space

[Vanchatron]

1 minute ago, The3points said:

Click on the trophy icon on the left hand side, depending on the size of your screen it might be labelled Competitions. Click on the tournament you want to see. On the bottom right hand corner there should be stats such as goals, average rating, clean sheets etc. Click on the player stats arrow and see more.

For leagues your team doesn't play in, type the country or the first part of the name (Italian or Champions) in the search bar at the top and find the league in the results. (Don't hit enter). From there, same goes with finding the stats

As for your tactical question, I think it can. Combined with the right roles and Tempo I think pass into space is a good tool against certain teams. In a save I have the combo with Lazio (Higher Tempo as well), and that leads to nice buildup with balls in behind their line finding space

Great, thank you.  Just out of curiosity, if I don't have "Pass into space" enabled, will they still pass into space from time to time anyway or will they just not bother at all?  I don't really want to force it and keep losing the ball by attempting to pass into space, but if the option is on I'd rather my team took the opportunity instead of ignoring it just because I didn't have the option activated.

[1twoQ]

Of note here they've changed the way the possession Stat works in fm23 to be the same real life (percentage of total passes completed) and added a new Stat called ball share (percent of time your side has the ball). 

 

These two metrics are usually pretty similar but by playing very direct or very short passes they can drift apart. 

 

May be a good idea to check your sides ball share too just to see if your low possession numbers are a result of direct passing or actually losing the ball often. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by 1twoQ

[CARRERA]

Yes, it can work together. However, transition speed is very slow due to short passing and whenever you are in a position to finally look for that ball, the other team might have fully transitioned into their defensive shape already to further restrict space. So it will be less effective, but not useless at all. 

Just from a short view on your formation I can see, that there is no player to provide width in the final third as both Wingers cut inside. A Fullback will not provide width sufficiently, so I would suggest to use Wingbacks or Complete Wingbacks instead or to increase your teams attacking width setting. It comes at the cost of less passing options however. 

Also you don’t have any overlapping partnerships to encourage runs from deeper positions or different angles. You should also take a look on how your players move when in possession. Both IF and the AF are attacking the channels and your AP sits in the 10 spot, there is no one to attack the central space from time to time. I would try another striker role that doesn’t attack the channels or make a central player making runs into that area to receive the final ball instead.