*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[Neil Brock]

3 hours ago, Tyburn said:

Can someone from SI clarify if youth development and the AI’s issue with not picking young players anywhere near often enough, who are clearly good enough, for the first team AND national teams, is being looked at for the next update please?

All issues raised via the Bug Tracker are investigated by our team. Depending on the priority of the issue, risk assessment of any changes and time available we will look to address as many as we can. 

What you've listed there are factors which all have a large number of influences in game, so would be a case of balancing a number of aspects in order to change how it currently works. As always we're looking to get the most realistic representation of real life football and work is constantly being done on that to do so. 

[Mitza]

I played the same Real Madrid - Barcelona 6 times, where I'm Barcelona, and EVERY.SINGLE.MATCH they score in the first 10 minutes and the next goal by min 20. Then they win the match by at least 3 goals. I tried different tactics, mentalities, formations, players, changed morale to perfect through the in-game editor, and the exact same thing happens over and over. I won the previous 2 games against them 3-0 and 3-1, yet this one feels like it's scripted.

[Bakiano]

 

7 home games in a row. Unbelieveble.

[Tyburn]

31 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

All issues raised via the Bug Tracker are investigated by our team. Depending on the priority of the issue, risk assessment of any changes and time available we will look to address as many as we can. 

What you've listed there are factors which all have a large number of influences in game, so would be a case of balancing a number of aspects in order to change how it currently works. As always we're looking to get the most realistic representation of real life football and work is constantly being done on that to do so. 

Thank you for responding Neil. Not the answer I was hoping for but appreciate the communication.

[Etebaer]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb cherryman71:

FM23 will always be remembered for the year we got some amazing new worthwhile features, the match engine significantly improved, the graphics got better and the regen pictures didn't look like they had been drawn by an 8 year old..........what an all in all great upgrade from last years version.........said no one ever

I remember that i wrote the new 3d match animations make the game way more fluid, more realistic, more spectacular, more intepretable than ever.

Roles seem at least in part a bigger influence on the tactical formation.

I find the begining of club fan influence promising.

The game seems to react even more sensible than ever, be it familiarity, language barriers, pair-building etc.

 

These are quite some improvements/enhancements - i dont regret the buy at all!

 

[DarJ]

46 minutes ago, Mitza said:

I played the same Real Madrid - Barcelona 6 times, where I'm Barcelona, and EVERY.SINGLE.MATCH they score in the first 10 minutes and the next goal by min 20. Then they win the match by at least 3 goals. I tried different tactics, mentalities, formations, players, changed morale to perfect through the in-game editor, and the exact same thing happens over and over. I won the previous 2 games against them 3-0 and 3-1, yet this one feels like it's scripted.

Every time someone has said something like that and provided the save file, other people that tried it had different results 

[Etebaer]

Bcs their PC generates a different (fake) random number the game also uses to determine randomness i guess...different rng different result...

 

Why computers can’t generate randomness. (slate.com)

Edited February 2, 2023 by Etebaer

[rdbayly]

I'm sure like me, many of you, each year, always look forward to the annual 'feature' release video from SI.

Isn't it great to hear the passion and enthusiasm from the likes of Nic Madden? He seems a very likable guy.

But there's a major problem with big claims; they need to be supported by big evidence. Sadly, this is shot to bits by the experience of the player base.

Claim - FM22: "Players have an awareness of their sprint capacity so a plug-and-play high-press is no longer an option"

Reality: All YouTubers plug and play a high press and win everything.

Claim - FM2023: 'We've really tried to recreate the chaos of football'

Reality: All aspects of chaos were removed in the first game patch.

My point is this; if the ME code is so complex and difficult that it cannot deliver the vision that you have for the game, then the tools you are using are not fit for purpose.

Edited February 2, 2023 by rdbayly

[Sanel]

On 30/01/2023 at 08:41, XaW said:

No, but those two and the others I mentioned are good players at the top level. I'm going to put some stuff in spoilers here, because it's from the editor and contains some hidden values. Look at your own peril:

  Hide contents

This is the highest reputation clubs in the Ivory Coast, as you can see ASEC have very high setting in all youth categories as well as the highest reputation. At the same time, very few clubs have anything close to them. All these factors, in addition to the fact that Ivory Coast have a high youth rating for the nation, as well as the other national factors that are set to make sure they produce a high number of good newgens to mirror real life, makes ASEC a hotspot. That doesn't mean they always will have good youth players, but it means that they are the most likely place for great Ivorian newgens to appear.

It you compare that to Norway as you said:

Look at all those clubs with high youth settings! And very similar reputation as well. This means that no one club is the preferred place for great Norwegian newgens! If you have set all clubs except Vålerenga to low and kept Vålerenga high, then Vålerenga would be in the same place as ASEC, but they aren't alone in being a good place for youngsters to come through.

The game tries to mirror real life, and in real life ASEC is the best at developing young talents in the Ivory Coast, so the game replicates it.

Also I took a look at one of my previous games where I have the editor active, and looked at them. The game is in 2027, and the best player they have generated has 176 PA and he got picked up by Dortmund. They also currently have 2 newgens with PA of 143 and 149, which are solid, but not spectacular. So 5 years in and no 180+ players.

And before you mention it, I always tick the "international players" and "players from continental competitions" for all continents when I start games, so most of the big teams and all nations have full squads, ASEC included.

I hope this cleared up why it happens, as it's not predetermined, but it does make it MORE likely to happen, and you can replicate it by changing stuff in the editor, but since other clubs also impact it, you can't just give a club max stuff in everything and expect the same to happen elsewhere.

Thanks for sharing this. I'm aware of some specific stuff like nation reputation, but this gives some clarification about how it works.

Does international players and players from continental competitions improve nation variety for newgens in long term?

[themadsheep2001]

20 hours ago, CaptCanuck said:

No one ever here - I am enjoying the FM23 ME. Never got on with FM22 and had been playing FM21 until the Christmas week. Happy I have switched to FM23.

Ofc it still has bugs and dumb behaviour and interactions, and the mono-brows, but for me it's a definite improvement over the previous iterations.

Yeah same. There's still some areas I'd like whacked in the ME, but massively enjoying it. I hate low block football, but it's definitely not just viable, but actually very effective in FM23. Still not for me though, lowest I'll go is a midblock

[alian62]

3 hours ago, rdbayly said:

I'm sure like me, many of you, each year, always look forward to the annual 'feature' release video from SI.

Isn't it great to hear the passion and enthusiasm from the likes of Nic Madden? He seems a very likable guy.

But there's a major problem with big claims; they need to be supported by big evidence. Sadly, this is shot to bits by the experience of the player base.

Claim - FM22: "Players have an awareness of their sprint capacity so a plug-and-play high-press is no longer an option"

Reality: All YouTubers plug and play a high press and win everything.

Claim - FM2023: 'We've really tried to recreate the chaos of football'

Reality: All aspects of chaos were removed in the first game patch.

My point is this; if the ME code is so complex and difficult that it cannot deliver the vision that you have for the game, then the tools you are using are not fit for purpose.

Totally agree about the chaos aspect. Touted as a new feature and was there to entice you to make a purchase ? So what's the comeback on this.  Oh well thanks for your purchase .. ... I've given SI my money for a game that had a feature i liked thats no longer there ? Where is my 20% off ???? 

[chewinggums]

Just curious if Mason Greenwood will be back in the next update? any idea?

[XaW]

8 hours ago, Sanel said:

Thanks for sharing this. I'm aware of some specific stuff like nation reputation, but this gives some clarification about how it works.

Does international players and players from continental competitions improve nation variety for newgens in long term?

I don't know, but I would think it's possible. At any rate doing so don't seem to slow down the game nearly as much as adding more leagues, so it's my goto option to at the very least make the game world feel more alive. Adding and removing nations is something I can do at any point, but the database is set at creation, so for me that's the key.

[Mush1983]

3 hours ago, chewinggums said:

Just curious if Mason Greenwood will be back in the next update? any idea?

no idea but imo i wouldnt expect him to be until the man united internal investigation is over 

[metal_guitarist]

3 hours ago, chewinggums said:

Just curious if Mason Greenwood will be back in the next update? any idea?

He still remains suspended by the club. Until that situation changes it is very unlikely he will be included.

[RiverReveal666]

4 hours ago, chewinggums said:

Just curious if Mason Greenwood will be back in the next update? any idea?

Can't imagine SI will add him back in until Man Utd have held their investigation. It's easy enough to add him via the editor or from the Steam workshop, if you are so inclined.

[chewinggums]

45 minutes ago, RiverReveal666 said:

Can't imagine SI will add him back in until Man Utd have held their investigation. It's easy enough to add him via the editor or from the Steam workshop, if you are so inclined.

i am just wondering on the general stance.. even if Utd hold their investigations, the solutions will be that:

1) he will be in the Utd squad

2) he will be released on free transfer

but generally, he will still be in the game regardless of Utd's decision? - unless he announce his retirement from the game

anyway, tough decision for both Utd and all other football-related things to consider in all the moral/legal/social factors.

thank you everyone for your inputs =)

[DrIgz]

1 hour ago, chewinggums said:

i am just wondering on the general stance.. even if Utd hold their investigations, the solutions will be that:

1) he will be in the Utd squad

2) he will be released on free transfer

but generally, he will still be in the game regardless of Utd's decision? - unless he announce his retirement from the game

anyway, tough decision for both Utd and all other football-related things to consider in all the moral/legal/social factors.

thank you everyone for your inputs =)

If he gets released on a free transfer (i.e. Manchester United deems that there is enough evidence of misconduct to warrant contract termination) I would say it's very likely he won't play again at any noteworthy level. No one would dare toy with their reputation. 

If Manchester United stick by him, then that's a different story. I almost have a feeling they are trying to find legal and/or cost effective ways to terminate his contract. I don't see them keeping him to be honest.

Probably not a discussion for the GD anyway.

[Zizu00]

Is there any editor data file with a fix because of the fixtures so that as example Bundesliga Teams not play 4 or 5 games home or away in a row?I don't want to start a new save until this bug is resolved

Edited February 3, 2023 by Zizu00

[ElJuanvito]

A big request for the upcoming update: UEFA registration windows in January before the 31st. This is gonna be my second season in a row in which my squad is dismantled in the winter transfer window without me being able to register their replacements.

[Ghost4928]

12 hours ago, DrIgz said:

If he gets released on a free transfer (i.e. Manchester United deems that there is enough evidence of misconduct to warrant contract termination) I would say it's very likely he won't play again at any noteworthy level. No one would dare toy with their reputation. 

Mark Goldbridge makes a good point that once you're talking about morals in football (which we essentially are in the scenario of a club signing MG on), then you've lost the argument.

**IF** MG is cleared to play football again, and a club in the relegation zone needs a goalscorer, for instance, who cares about morals and reputation when the club's status as a Premier League club and financial gain is on the line?

[metal_guitarist]

7 hours ago, Ghost4928 said:

Mark Goldbridge makes a good point that once you're talking about morals in football (which we essentially are in the scenario of a club signing MG on), then you've lost the argument.

**IF** MG is cleared to play football again, and a club in the relegation zone needs a goalscorer, for instance, who cares about morals and reputation when the club's status as a Premier League club and financial gain is on the line?

1. Can we take the Greenwood chat elsewhere please rather than using the feedback thread.

2. Mark Goldbridge (or Brent to call him by his real name) is a toxic clown and the sooner people stop giving him any kind of attention the better but again, a discussion for another thread. 

[phnompenhandy]

21 hours ago, DrIgz said:

If he gets released on a free transfer (i.e. Manchester United deems that there is enough evidence of misconduct to warrant contract termination) I would say it's very likely he won't play again at any noteworthy level. No one would dare toy with their reputation. 

Two words. David. Goodwillie.

[Ghost4928]

2 hours ago, metal_guitarist said:

2. Mark Goldbridge (or Brent to call him by his real name) is a toxic clown and the sooner people stop giving him any kind of attention the better but again, a discussion for another thread. 

Considering you've decided to continue the talk about Mark Goldbridge, I feel the need to reply considering what I said in my earlier post.

I would tend to agree with you if this was 5 years ago, but (and I think to Goldbridge's credit), he has become a lot more balanced and nuanced when he talks about football these days. He certainly isn't a "toxic clown", as you put it, and I've seen quite a few of his recent videos.

I don't necessarily agree with everything he says, but he certainly raises good points in a space that requires nuanced discussions.

[DrIgz]

44 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

Two words. David. Goodwillie.

Having never heard of him, I looked him up. Seems that after being convicted of rape in 2016, he only played for a Scottish semi-professional side. When, years later, he signed for a Scottish Championship side, the backlash meant that he was released without ever playing a game. I'd say that sounds about right.

[Hovis Dexter]

2 hours ago, metal_guitarist said:

… Can we take the Greenwood chat elsewhere please rather than using the feedback ….

Totally agree … far too many inappropriate posts for a feedback thread.

[jlboybeamer]

On 01/02/2023 at 07:37, Jack Joyce said:

It's a question that gets asked fairly often but it really doesn't solve any problems.

The Match Engine has been constantly iterated, improved and refactored over the course of many years. Every year we spend time refactoring older parts of code in the engine anyway, and starting from scratch doesn't really help to make balancing much easier than it is now. The reason why balancing the ME takes so much time and effort is more to do with the complexity of the simulation we're working on, rather than a sign of the engine itself 'aging'.

Looking at headers here - as someone said earlier, it's not really just a question of changing some numbers since the numbers are reflective of the AI decisions playing out in a certain way. To begin with, we'd have to do a comprehensive analysis of where headers are coming from in engine vs real life, and then make targeted improvements to off the ball movement, passing decisions, risk assessment. All of these areas of course having their own knock-on effects in a fairly major way that need to be thoroughly tested and balanced themselves. e.g. if you make changes to how players move/show for the ball, then that has drastic implications on how passing in general plays out, since every pass needs a receiver moving for the ball. Then you have to factor in all of the team instructions, player attributes etc. all needing to have the right effect in these situations at all the different levels as well. Then there's the small matter of making sure any new logic we add to the AI isn't slowing down the processing of the engine too much, since the game needs to be able to play hundreds, if not thousands of matches over the course of a career save.

Think about how fundamental passing and movement is to football - changing that can have huge implications on how the entire match plays out and feels as a whole! We have to be careful and assess knock-ons, and fix bugs that come up as a result of any changes we make (fixes that also have their own knock-ons themselves).

This is what Neil means when he says that we have to be careful of not throwing out the overall balance of the engine when fixing certain issues.

Complexity is the reason why some issues take a long time to solve, but we don't want to make the engine more simplistic or 'dumbed down' to make our balancing work easier either. We're constantly working on our working processes to make sure we're able to react to issues better and faster. We understand it can be frustrating at times, but believe me, it's not through a lack of effort, the team works so hard all year to make the engine as good as it can be and we're more critical than everyone of our work behind closed doors.

But we do think we can do a better job of communicating how we work, which we're trying to do more and more and hopefully helps you to understand a bit more about how the engine works and what we do.

Thank you for this kind of response , really I think this type of communication should be applauded. 

A question though what is the issue with bugs still remaining persistent in game from previous versions ? For example the youth development issue has carried on from FM 22, specifically how the A.I still prefers older 33-37 higher reputable players compared to the upcoming regens who have the ability to replace them but can’t because they lack the reputation gain in game. 
You mentioned you take pride in your work and critical, but what is being done to rectify this ongoing issue.  
I believe you play your game yourselves and are not totally oblivious to this issue which is noticeable in long term saves. 

My main gripe with this years version is that the unfixed bugs that existed in previous versions still remains, add to the fact that the features this year is underwhelming which has highlighted all the negatives even further. I hope that next years edition is much more refined and the bugs being reported are actually fixed and not fallen on deaf ears. 
 

Thank you 

[eXistenZ]

What can be the reason you cant ask the board for youth facilities upgrade? waited untill the season ticked over, but  nothing. Plenty of money

[Polando]

There is too much clicking in FM23, it's really tedious and kills all gameplay - it's the most important thing, it's what ensures many years of careers. In FM19 I was able to run one save until 2055 - in the Champions League semi-final I met Fiorentina led by my former student from AC Bari! In FM23, I'm exhausted after half of the season, there are so many useless things that don't affect the gameplay that I don't feel like continuing.

[alp52]

Especially when we manage teams in the Turkish League, players get really funny offers. I win the Champions League, my player wins the golden boot and he has 170ca, but offered to him is only 25 million euros  This is extremely annoying and ruins the fun of the game.

Edited February 5, 2023 by alp52

[angelo994]

When will the Jan transfer update be out? Also will it include changes to the match engine?

[alian62]

2 hours ago, Polando said:

There is too much clicking in FM23, it's really tedious and kills all gameplay - it's the most important thing, it's what ensures many years of careers. In FM19 I was able to run one save until 2055 - in the Champions League semi-final I met Fiorentina led by my former student from AC Bari! In FM23, I'm exhausted after half of the season, there are so many useless things that don't affect the gameplay that I don't feel like continuing.

Depends on the skin you use

[GOODNAME]

2 hours ago, angelo994 said:

When will the Jan transfer update be out? Also will it include changes to the match engine?

Based on previous games - the winter update is out between 20~23 of February and including ME changes + update of CA/PA of creation players 

[tropicsafc]

Just had a keeper sent off for handball out the area! Of course I never have a sub keeper on the bench.

[DarJ]

4 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

Just had a keeper sent off for handball out the area! Of course I never have a sub keeper on the bench.

That’s funny. How did it go?

[Sunstrikuuu]

6 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

Just had a keeper sent off for handball out the area! Of course I never have a sub keeper on the bench.

wait, this can happen?  I've been playing FM for 15 years, I think, maybe 16, and never seen a keeper get a red card.

[tropicsafc]

4 hours ago, DarJ said:

That’s funny. How did it go?

 

2 hours ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

wait, this can happen?  I've been playing FM for 15 years, I think, maybe 16, and never seen a keeper get a red card.

I know! I was stunned. Definitely never seen it on FM23 and can't remember ever seeing it before.

5 mins in. Down to 10. Stuck the the RB in goal and scraped a 2-2.

 

Edit: I'll try dig out some screenshots 

 

First image is moment of handball. Second with commentary.

Edited February 5, 2023 by tropicsafc

[Platinum]

11 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

Just had a keeper sent off for handball out the area! Of course I never have a sub keeper on the bench.

I've had the goalkeeper handball it outside the area a couple times and I'm pretty sure he got a yellow. Seemed more like a glitch that's handled by giving a foul rather than a feature tbh

[rp1966]

Does anyone pay much attention to commentary? I ask because I wonder if anyone can confirm something I think I've seen as commentary messages flash by.  

Sometimes you'll see a message pop up saying that there is blocking in the box - I'm pretty sure this is always saying that the blocking is by a member of the defending team on another member of the defending team and it's supposed to be defender on attacker.  Skips by so quick that I haven't been able to screenshot it or be 100% that I'm interpreting it correctly, but both names are definitely from the same team and I'm sure that's not what it meant to say.

Obviously not particularly important, but looks like a string population error (if I've interpreted things correctly).

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by rp1966

[Johnny Ace]

17 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

 

I know! I was stunned. Definitely never seen it on FM23 and can't remember ever seeing it before.

5 mins in. Down to 10. Stuck the the RB in goal and scraped a 2-2.

 

Edit: I'll try dig out some screenshots 

 

First image is moment of handball. Second with commentary.

 

 

Brilliant!!  It's been a good while since I've seen that 

[fc.cadoni]

On 04/02/2023 at 18:39, eXistenZ said:

What can be the reason you cant ask the board for youth facilities upgrade? waited untill the season ticked over, but  nothing. Plenty of money

Low yough rating for chairman and-or low youth importance of the club. It’s not always about money.

Edited February 6, 2023 by fc.cadoni

[eXistenZ]

9 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

Low yough rating for chairman and-or low youth importance of the club. It’s not always about money.

yeah, found it in another topic.

Sure, in a way its realistic, but it also ruins the gameplay. Everybody knows producing your own stars is one of the best feelings in game.

SI: "lets lock that away behind a mechanic you cant absolutly not influence at all"

[fc.cadoni]

2 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

yeah, found it in another topic.

Sure, in a way its realistic, but it also ruins the gameplay. Everybody knows producing your own stars is one of the best feelings in game.

SI: "lets lock that away behind a mechanic you cant absolutly not influence at all"

You can actually influence it or wait for take over. 😉

[eXistenZ]

4 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

You can actually influence it or wait for take over. 😉

well you cant influence it.

 

and waiting for a takeover isnt exactly somethingyou can activly do

[Ghost4928]

12 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

Sure, in a way its realistic, but it also ruins the gameplay. Everybody knows producing your own stars is one of the best feelings in game.

 

So you're criticising the realism in a game that is meant to be realistic?

 

I don't mean for this to sound dickish, and I'm gonna be perfectly blunt here (you have been warned), but wouldn't that be your own fault for choosing to manage a team who doesn't prioritise youth?

 

It's like a manager rocking up to 20th placed team in the Premier League, expecting the owner to give them 500m to spend, but then realising that the club was just promoted and didn't have any money to spend.
 

Or to use another example, it's like rocking up to Brentford, expecting to build a title winning squad through the youth academy, but then realising Brentford don't even have a youth academy.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Ghost4928

[eXistenZ]

36 minutes ago, Ghost4928 said:

 

So you're criticising the realism in a game that is meant to be realistic?

 

I don't mean for this to sound dickish, and I'm gonna be perfectly blunt here (you have been warned), but wouldn't that be your own fault for choosing to manage a team who doesn't prioritise youth?

 

It's like a manager rocking up to 20th placed team in the Premier League, expecting the owner to give them 500m to spend, but then realising that the club was just promoted and didn't have any money to spend.
 

Or to use another example, it's like rocking up to Brentford, expecting to build a title winning squad through the youth academy, but then realising Brentford don't even have a youth academy.

If you dont want to sound dickish, dont be dickish?

 

The whole premise of the game, that we, people who havent worked in professional football for a day, can manage real madrid, is unrealistic. That you can go from english 8th tier to League 1 in 6-7 years is unrealistic. But people do it in the game. So there are plenty of unrealistic things that dont bother you or me. Thats the whole point: its a simulation. It simulates real life up to a point, but not so much that it blocks out fun parts.

Brentford s a bad example because everybody knows they do it like that. Also, despite them not prioritising youth, you can actually ask the board to improve youth level and facilities..... 
There was nowhere an indication of when I started at this club. So basicly what you are saying is "only start at club that have as club vision - use youth system". Great, another "lets lock 50% of the clubs away behind something you cant influence". What a brilliant and fun design....

 

Im not gonna even reply to the 500m comparison, cause its not even close to a good analogy. expecting half a billion compared to expecting the ability to use a game feature is not even close

[herne79]

14 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

well you cant influence it.

You can.

You can prioritise youth by giving youth players a chance in your first team.  And you can still develop young players even with lower levels of facilities than you may like.  You could also bring in younger players - say 18-20 year olds - for your first team squad and give them game time.

Remember that it’s only players younger than 18 where the priority for their development is facilities.

All of this may help your Board see the light and come round to your way of thinking.  And when it comes to your contract renewal time, add in a clause about giving youth a chance.  With that it may well encourage the Board to feel contractually obliged to develop facilities when you ask them.

Btw I do agree you should at least see the option now rather than the total blank you are seeing but, given time and patience, you can influence it.

[eXistenZ]

52 minutes ago, herne79 said:

You can.

You can prioritise youth by giving youth players a chance in your first team.  And you can still develop young players even with lower levels of facilities than you may like.  You could also bring in younger players - say 18-20 year olds - for your first team squad and give them game time.

Remember that it’s only players younger than 18 where the priority for their development is facilities.

All of this may help your Board see the light and come round to your way of thinking.  And when it comes to your contract renewal time, add in a clause about giving youth a chance.  With that it may well encourage the Board to feel contractually obliged to develop facilities when you ask them.

Btw I do agree you should at least see the option now rather than the total blank you are seeing but, given time and patience, you can influence it.

Already ging youngsters playing time.

 

But I tried going for a contract renewal. Didnt allow me to modify (delete or add) any objectives. Again, the option just isnt there.  If I could ask and the board said no, that would be fine. But the lack of options is bad gamedesign

[duff33]

Not sure this is a bug per se, but jeez I am gonna be sick of blue by the end of this month...

[rp1966]

3 hours ago, duff33 said:

Not sure this is a bug per se, but jeez I am gonna be sick of blue by the end of this month...

I never like schedules that end up like that, though it's pretty common when you're competing on all fronts.  Never like playing the same team multiple times in a row. Not really a situation where you want to instant result any either unless you've already won the two-legged tie in the first game.