*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[Neil Brock]

5 minutes ago, alian62 said:

Ok there's 1 person 🤣

I've got a folder with all my saves from FM23 going back to FM07. Despite thinking I always will, I never have  

Once a new one comes out, that's the one I play. 

[Tyburn]

4 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Just to be clear, this code is rather complex given all the potential 'bonus' places that can be given out due to coefficient ratings and winning of other competitions etc. 

It could definitely be clearer - generally players accept qualifying for the Europa League as 'European qualification' which given the Conference League, isn't all that well presented to the user manager. That was partly due to when this was first implemented, the Conference League didn't exist! So yes, will require a change to what we call the strings (text in game) to update this.  

However saying that, winning the Conference League will pass the promise from what we've checked in the code today, so if you have a save game where it doesn't, ideally just before the final took place, we'd be extremely interested in looking at it. 

But yeah, would say Bug Tracker is always the best place for things like this. 

Thanks for responding and looking at it.

Unfortunately I do not have a save game before this took place. The issue seemed to be, in my instance, that the promise deadline, although after the final of the competition, was before the game had a chance to update itself that my team had qualified for the Euro League. From memory it was like a day out. Based on string.

It has happened in previous versions. Perhaps the promise deadline could be extended?

[jeru]

20 minutes ago, XaW said:

Even with caps you missed the whole "That's what SI wants" comment?

Great post really aides the discussion points immensely. 
 

Mods would do well to remember that people who post on these boards are actual customers of SI and rather than post snarky all caps response and digs they would be somewhat constructive. 

[XaW]

1 minute ago, jeru said:

Great post really aides the discussion points immensely. 
 

Mods would do well to remember that people who post on these boards are actual customers of SI and rather than post snarky all caps response and digs they would be somewhat constructive. 

Did you also miss SI officially saying this is how the want it just below that post?

If you want to continue this debate, please PM me and let's not clog up this thread.

[jeru]

17 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Just to be clear, this code is rather complex given all the potential 'bonus' places that can be given out due to coefficient ratings and winning of other competitions etc. 

It could definitely be clearer - generally players accept qualifying for the Europa League as 'European qualification' which given the Conference League, isn't all that well presented to the user manager. That was partly due to when this was first implemented, the Conference League didn't exist! So yes, will require a change to what we call the strings (text in game) to update this.  

However saying that, winning the Conference League will pass the promise from what we've checked in the code today, so if you have a save game where it doesn't, ideally just before the final took place, we'd be extremely interested in looking at it. 

But yeah, would say Bug Tracker is always the best place for things like this. 

Thanks for the great post, as I assumed there is no logic to deal with that initial issue

 

thats still in my opinion not a bug per say but I understand you thought process behind your response, thanks for taking the time to respond. 
 

 

[xenomorphing]

This game needs to improve their amount of updates and bug fixing speed. It's simply unacceptable that breaking bugs discovered in the beta are still not fixed to this date, for a game with 1 year life cycle and a 50 euro pricetag. Some of these bugs aren't even big, and are easy fixes. I'll give you my home league for example, the Belgian league, currently 8th best in europa, so not a small league:

https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2023-bugs-tracker/league-specific-issues/belgium-official-league-specific-issues/

Not a single issue has been fixed and not a single amount of feedback has been given when or if it's even going to be fixed. It's now almost february, and most bugs were reported in October, some by me on day one of the beta discovered in 1 hour of testing.... This is a big letdown that I hope changes in the future.

Edited January 27, 2023 by xenomorphing

[jeru]

Just now, XaW said:

Did you also miss SI officially saying this is how the want it just below that post?

If you want to continue this debate, please PM me and let's not clog up this thread.

Frankly don’t ever interact with me again I have no wish to ever speak to you again, your behaviour is appalling 

[Johnny Ace]

There's only the Bug Tracker to log any issues on @jeru, so regardless of whether the issue is technically a bug or not, it doesn't matter, any issues being brought up on here will asked to be logged on the Bug Tracker  

[xenomorphing]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

There's only the Bug Tracker to log any issues on @jeru, so regardless of whether the issue is technically a bug or not, it doesn't matter, any issues being brought up on here will asked to be logged on the Bug Tracker  

It's feedback on how you should handle your loyal customers and not lose them. The bug tracker has been largely ignored since release. There is basically no communication at all there.

Edited January 27, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Neil Brock]

10 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

It's feedback on how you should handle your loyal customers and not lose them. The bug tracker has been largely ignored since release. There is basically no communication at all there.

Think you'll find the vast majority of issues raised have a response from SI. 

What we aren't currently in a position to do is give updates on issues under investigation, but will mark issues as resolved when they're addressed in a released update. 

Where issues require an additional save or further info, we've been quick to ask for that as well. 

[Neil Brock]

19 minutes ago, Tyburn said:

Thanks for responding and looking at it.

Unfortunately I do not have a save game before this took place. The issue seemed to be, in my instance, that the promise deadline, although after the final of the competition, was before the game had a chance to update itself that my team had qualified for the Euro League. From memory it was like a day out. Based on string.

It has happened in previous versions. Perhaps the promise deadline could be extended?

Thanks for the info here - gives us a bit more to work with when investigating. 

[fc.cadoni]

16 hours ago, Zoolok42 said:

That really doesn't look all that much better, especially not like a 10 years worth of work and improvement.

So, updated graphics with price tag of 70€, like other games. @orlyzao @rp1966 @Sanel @Zoolok42 @Lempicka

Not bad financial plan SI - SEGA.

Edited January 27, 2023 by fc.cadoni

[xenomorphing]

20 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Think you'll find the vast majority of issues raised have a response from SI. 

What we aren't currently in a position to do is give updates on issues under investigation, but will mark issues as resolved when they're addressed in a released update. 

Where issues require an additional save or further info, we've been quick to ask for that as well. 

I'll take the Belgian league again as an example, where i discovered the following game breaking bug within 1 hour of testing 2 hours after the BETA release, and instantly reported it:

- second place of the second division promotes instead of first place in second division

There are many more that were reported around the same date that still aren't fixed, like second playoff of first division being rendered useless because there is no 2 leg game against 4th place from first playoff for an european ticket.

I'm not sure why clear game breaking bugs from 20 october with proof are still "under investigation", which honestly should've been fixed at launch or atleast in the december update...  Especially for a licensed league and if you're not gonna use testers before launching the game. That's exactly what my issue is. I doubt this is an issue exclusively with this league.

Edited January 27, 2023 by xenomorphing

[Tony Wright 747]

9 hours ago, alian62 said:

SI have always maintained this game was a text driven model first and foremost . They were pressured into delivering a 3D animation match simulation back in 2010 as this is what FIFA Manager was doing to great success . They have got by on the same old modeling now for 10 years plus but as the years roll on and now , as even mobile games have overtaken them on graphics output , its all going to come to the point of biting the bullit and get on with builing a new graphic formula . Right now we are looking at the 2018 graphics that the game had and its even older when you think it was probably being made in 2017 for the 2018 release . People laugh when they are shown this game for the first time ? We all love this game hence why we all get fustrated but the time has come to move forward and catch up with the world otherwise people are going to become dispondant and just play the older games . I bet there isnt one person who plays FM for years doesnt go back and play the older games . 

I still play FM16 and occasionally FM12 which uses the old tactics (ie sliders)

[Neil Brock]

16 minutes ago, xenomorphing said:

I'll take the Belgian league again as an example, where i discovered the following game breaking bug within 1 hour of testing 2 hours after the BETA release, and instantly reported it:

- second place of the second division promotes instead of first place in second division

There are many more that were reported around the same date that still aren't fixed, like second playoff of first division being rendered useless because there is no 2 leg game against 4th place from first playoff for an european ticket.

I'm not sure why clear game breaking bugs from 20 october with proof are still "under investigation", which honestly should've been fixed at launch or atleast in the december update...  Especially for a licensed league. That's exactly what my issue is. I doubt this is an issue exclusively with this league.

A lot of issues require a reproducible example for the development team to be able to fix, and then QA check to make the fix works and doesn't cause knock-ons. Sometimes these are easy to get and can be done quickly in house, sometimes it requires an uploaded save from our players. In other scenarios it is just a case of being able to look at the code directly and spot the issue. 

However every issue logged also requires a priority depending on the severity of the issue and how many players will encounter it. We then have to balance internal resource and the complexity and potential knock-ons of any fix. 

You also have with the majority of rule, schedule and competition issues require a new save game to come into effect due to the nature of how this code works. 

That specific issue was fixed earlier in the cycle but unfortunately the tracker thread wasn't set to resolved. That's something I've done now and the team will sweep to try and make sure everything is up to date.

[xenomorphing]

14 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

A lot of issues require a reproducible example for the development team to be able to fix, and then QA check to make the fix works and doesn't cause knock-ons. Sometimes these are easy to get and can be done quickly in house, sometimes it requires an uploaded save from our players. In other scenarios it is just a case of being able to look at the code directly and spot the issue. 

However every issue logged also requires a priority depending on the severity of the issue and how many players will encounter it. We then have to balance internal resource and the complexity and potential knock-ons of any fix. 

You also have with the majority of rule, schedule and competition issues require a new save game to come into effect due to the nature of how this code works. 

That specific issue was fixed earlier in the cycle but unfortunately the tracker thread wasn't set to resolved. That's something I've done now and the team will sweep to try and make sure everything is up to date.

This is exactly why I came to address my concerns here.  Thank you for the update.

Edited January 27, 2023 by xenomorphing

[eren39]

This FM is just wow. I am playing FM since 2020 and in every version i played 1000+ hours. But FM23 is just unbelievable. I am sick of games where i dominate the oposition and lose 1-0. Loads of games where i have 40 shots, 15 on target, 0 goal. The oposition 1 shot, 1 on target, 1 goal. I can not remember how often i substituted my goalkeeper in FM23. 

[fc.cadoni]

1 hour ago, eren39 said:

This FM is just wow. I am playing FM since 2020 and in every version i played 1000+ hours. But FM23 is just unbelievable. I am sick of games where i dominate the oposition and lose 1-0. Loads of games where i have 40 shots, 15 on target, 0 goal. The oposition 1 shot, 1 on target, 1 goal. I can not remember how often i substituted my goalkeeper in FM23. 

Same can be said for Ajax yesterday

[Neil Brock]

2 hours ago, eren39 said:

This FM is just wow. I am playing FM since 2020 and in every version i played 1000+ hours. But FM23 is just unbelievable. I am sick of games where i dominate the oposition and lose 1-0. Loads of games where i have 40 shots, 15 on target, 0 goal. The oposition 1 shot, 1 on target, 1 goal. I can not remember how often i substituted my goalkeeper in FM23. 

With the greatest respect, if this happens to you once or twice that's unlucky. If it happens more frequently than that, would recommend looking at your tactical approach as clearly something isn't quite right. 40 shots strikes me as a team who are putting quantity over quality. 

[phnompenhandy]

2 hours ago, eren39 said:

This FM is just wow. I am playing FM since 2020 and in every version i played 1000+ hours. But FM23 is just unbelievable. I am sick of games where i dominate the oposition and lose 1-0. Loads of games where i have 40 shots, 15 on target, 0 goal. The oposition 1 shot, 1 on target, 1 goal. I can not remember how often i substituted my goalkeeper in FM23. 

Cleon amongst others explain in detail the tactical missteps that lead to these outcomes. Head off to the Tactics forum.

[metal_guitarist]

4 minutes ago, jeru said:

Ok so by this logic if I have an issue in that I can’t spend any of my in game wages then I should log this as a bug?

do you see the difference now? 

 

Existing functionality broken = bug = post it in the Bug Forum.

New functionality required = a feature request, not an issue/bug = post it in the Feature Request section.

[Sunstrikuuu]

47 minutes ago, metal_guitarist said:

Existing functionality broken = bug = post it in the Bug Forum.

New functionality required = a feature request, not an issue/bug = post it in the Feature Request section.

Would that it were so simple.

[XaW]

Just had an Origi moment in my save, haven't seen that before!

[metal_guitarist]

8 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Would that it were so simple.

And sometimes typically, a feature request is required to fix a bug due to lack of existing functionality but that’s something for SI to make a decision over rather than the customer/end user.   

[FmTuga]

I feel so robbed by SI with this year update of the game!

FM24 should be free to everyone!

[andu1]

I think i have at least 50 games like this since i started playing this game. Obviously my tactic sucks and the AI scores by creating quality chances.

 

result = 1-1

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by andu1

[fc.cadoni]

8 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I think i have at least 50 games like this since i started playing this game. Obviously my tactic sucks and the AI scores by creating quality chances.

 

result = 1-1

 

Yeah, like Ajax

 

[XaW]

16 minutes ago, andu1 said:

I think i have at least 50 games like this since i started playing this game. Obviously my tactic sucks and the AI scores by creating quality chances.

 

result = 1-1

 

24 shots to create 1.72 xG is not really pointing to you creating quality chances though. I'd be much more concerned with that!

[andu1]

21 minutes ago, XaW said:

24 shots to create 1.72 xG is not really pointing to you creating quality chances though. I'd be much more concerned with that!

and 0.11 for the opposition is?

[XaW]

10 minutes ago, andu1 said:

and 0.11 for the opposition is?

One chance. It happens. If you constantly see your team dominate and have loads of shots, but create low xG (and presumably few goals), then that would be my main concern. Low xG chances that turns into goals happens at times, but it wouldn't be a problem if your team scored 2 or 3.

To give it more detail. Your 24 shots give an average of ~0.07 xG per shot. Their two gives an average of ~0.06 per shot. So their one chance was on average just slightly less likely to go in. Massing up loads of xG through very poor chances is a big red flag for your tactic. You obviously dominate the game, so I assume they are trying to keep you out and hope for a break or a set piece, as they should if you are a far better side. Especially if you have a high tempo tactic with high mentality, possibly also high risk roles. This causes players to take bad shots, rather than slow down and wait for a better chance to score rather than take potshots and hope for the best. I bet that tactic often works wonders when you score the first goal, but it struggles when you concede first due to this.

And there may very well be issues with the game, I don't discount that, but low xG from loads of shots is something you should take into account and at the very least see if you can mitigate it with tactics.

[Cobblers]

38 minutes ago, XaW said:

24 shots to create 1.72 xG is not really pointing to you creating quality chances though. I'd be much more concerned with that!

Perhaps change mentality... chances are fine, but si can waste them. So no point in getting lots of chances when thr players are pushing for s goal to hard. 

Try letting it down a notch and you should see more Conservative style that leads to goals. 

But results like yours does happen and irl too. But I've found itto be the exception and not the rule. 

[Etebaer]

vor 55 Minuten schrieb XaW:

24 shots to create 1.72 xG is not really pointing to you creating quality chances though. I'd be much more concerned with that!

What i wonder is, do shots that miss the goal count for xg?

Bcs the players seem to miss extraordinarily good chances quite a lot when you have many chances - so "shots on goal" is often only maybe 5 to 10 and that would be quite a good xg i guess.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Etebaer

[XaW]

1 minute ago, Etebaer said:

What i wonder is, do shots that miss the goal count for xg?

Bcs the players seem to miss extraordinarily good chances quite a lot when you have many chances - so "shots on goal" is often only maybe 5 to 10 and that would be quite a good xg i guess.

Yes, all shots count towards xG.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Back again. Plainly obvious this would be broken. Players do not handle the new coefficient qualification rules for the UCL properly:

[ExeChris]

I've just been advised that I did not make the shortlist for a job I applied for.  "This is mainly as a result of your slight reluctance towards making set pieces an important part of your approach"!

Do I have to click 'plays for set pieces' now on my tactics to broaden my job suitability?!

[angelo994]

Has anyone else noticed the crazy number of headers per game? 

[Sanel]

23 hours ago, fc.cadoni said:

So, updated graphics with price tag of 70€, like other games. Not bad financial plan SI - SEGA.

Seems like you belong to the odd minority that likes to defend some views. Browsing to your posts, you don't post any constructive feedback however.

By the way, and let's be very critical here. There are games that are FREE (and not €70,- a year) with a decent business model and updates once per month.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Sanel

[Overmars]

1 hour ago, angelo994 said:

Has anyone else noticed the crazy number of headers per game? 

Yes, I posted about it a couple of pages back. There are at least twice as many headers as there should be. If you watch the match on full for a few minutes, you will see the header tennis being played.

[fc.cadoni]

24 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Seems like you belong to the odd minority that likes to defend some views. Browsing to your posts, you don't post any constructive feedback however.

By the way, and let's be very critical here. There are games that are FREE (and not €70,- a year) with a decent business model and updates once per month.

Be aware what you wish for, because In-Game Editor has new capabilities but the price has been increased a lot two years now. Why SI to upgrade quality of graphics for free? I don't see any logic here for SEGA - SI to not increase price if introduce new graphics. 

[Huey Lewis]

32 minutes ago, Sanel said:

Seems like you belong to the odd minority that likes to defend some views. Browsing to your posts, you don't post any constructive feedback however.

By the way, and let's be very critical here. There are games that are FREE (and not €70,- a year) with a decent business model and updates once per month.

Yeah but those 'free' games have layers of DLC, season passes and not-so subtle marketing strategies aimed at buying all sorts of tat built into them which make them anything but free. 

Also if you're paying €70 for FM then would recommend you're not very good at 'managing' your finances. Versions of FM are free on Game Pass and Apple Arcade through subscription and if you're willing to wait, there's normally sales or giveaways of the game. Think last year FM22 was given away free at points by both Epic and Amazon. Right now it's pretty easy to find the game for under €30. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by Huey Lewis

[unitedstian]

I love whenever someone complains about needing 30 shots to outscore the AI, someone's always at the ready to post a screenshot of either the Celtic-Barca or the recent Ajax game 

[CFuller]

16 minutes ago, unitedstian said:

I love whenever someone complains about needing 30 shots to outscore the AI, someone's always at the ready to post a screenshot of either the Celtic-Barca or the recent Ajax game 

The thing is, there are results like this EVERY week at ALL levels of professional football. You can find dozens, if not hundreds of examples every season of teams losing games where they had more shots, more possession and/or higher xG. IT HAPPENS.

'Dominating' the stats does not mean you should always win. And seeing as the game cannot distinguish between human-managed and AI-managed teams, this can happen against the AI too. On a test save I was playing yesterday, my Millwall team went away to Sunderland and had a lower xG, fewer shots and less possession... and we won 5-0.

If results like this go against you only once or twice a season, you can put it down to bad luck or "just one of those days". If they're happening more regularly, it's probably down to your tactics. More often than not when people complain about being "FMed", they're using far too many Attack duties and attacking instructions against low-block AI defences, leaving their players knackered and their defences horribly exposed to late counter-attacks.

In fairness, I feel like SI could do a better job on educating the community about why these results happen, so that more people understand that statistics ≠ results.

[Sanel]

3 hours ago, Huey Lewis said:

Yeah but those 'free' games have layers of DLC, season passes and not-so subtle marketing strategies aimed at buying all sorts of tat built into them which make them anything but free. 

Also if you're paying €70 for FM then would recommend you're not very good at 'managing' your finances. Versions of FM are free on Game Pass and Apple Arcade through subscription and if you're willing to wait, there's normally sales or giveaways of the game. Think last year FM22 was given away free at points by both Epic and Amazon. Right now it's pretty easy to find the game for under €30. 

How is it free when I have to buy/have a subscription?

I think we're different customers. That's fine though. I consider myself as a loyal customer and buy the game when the BETA is out, even if the game is bad.

[ostkiz]

[pandamk]

I've just won back-to-back promotions from League One to to the Premier League and my dressing room is absolute mayhem. It feels like the game has real problems dealing with playing time and wage expectations after unexpected success. League One-calibre players are turning down big pay increases because they want a contract comparable with a normal 'regular starter' or 'important player' in the Premier League, and then handing in transfer requests and signing for clubs in lower divisions for less than I originally offered them. Has anyone else experienced this?

Edited January 29, 2023 by pandamk

[jc1]

What the he'll has happened to the ME since the last update?

 

Work ball into the box now means shoot all the time from 20+ yards out, IF's are now terrible, can't cross or score. The nice passting moves we were seeing are replaced by long through hopeful balls and we're my striker scored 1v1 regularly he now misses 8 out 10. FM23 has gone backwards like it has done for the last 3-4 years, too much stuff re scouting, squad balance etc. 

Get very bored with the game in a very short time.

Edited January 29, 2023 by jc1

[Golob]

21 час назад, CFuller сказал:

The thing is, there are results like this EVERY week at ALL levels of professional football. You can find dozens, if not hundreds of examples every season of teams losing games where they had more shots, more possession and/or higher xG. IT HAPPENS.

'Dominating' the stats does not mean you should always win. And seeing as the game cannot distinguish between human-managed and AI-managed teams, this can happen against the AI too. On a test save I was playing yesterday, my Millwall team went away to Sunderland and had a lower xG, fewer shots and less possession... and we won 5-0.

If results like this go against you only once or twice a season, you can put it down to bad luck or "just one of those days". If they're happening more regularly, it's probably down to your tactics. More often than not when people complain about being "FMed", they're using far too many Attack duties and attacking instructions against low-block AI defences, leaving their players knackered and their defences horribly exposed to late counter-attacks.

In fairness, I feel like SI could do a better job on educating the community about why these results happen, so that more people understand that statistics ≠ results.

I mostly agree with what you say, but I think the frustration with the game mostly comes from things that you do not mention here.

 The ME is probably enforcing reasonable distribution of season outcomes, which I can understand. Otherwise we would be able to see one team winning, say, 90% of matches (or even 100%, why not?). However the game mechanics are not able to prevent situations when a team totally and consistently dominates in terms of abilities and match statistics (apart from results). And this is usually the player’s team due to a human being smarter than AI (though I believe in ME treating all teams equally).
 

This is when the frustration comes because the game becomes a fight vs built-in modifiers (for reasonable outcomes), not so much vs the opposition abilities/tactics. And this often hits mid-season when  “normalizing” outcomes presumably kicks in. 

[SimonHoddle]

5 minutes ago, Golob said:

I mostly agree with what you say, but I think the frustration with the game mostly comes from things that you do not mention here.

 The ME is probably enforcing reasonable distribution of season outcomes, which I can understand. Otherwise we would be able to see one team winning, say, 90% of matches (or even 100%, why not?). However the game mechanics are not able to prevent situations when a team totally and consistently dominates in terms of abilities and match statistics (apart from results). And this is usually the player’s team due to a human being smarter than AI (though I believe in ME treating all teams equally).
 

This is when the frustration comes because the game becomes a fight vs built-in modifiers (for reasonable outcomes), not so much vs the opposition abilities/tactics. And this often hits mid-season when  “normalizing” outcomes presumably kicks in. 

I think you’re right. Wish SI were honest about the modifiers. It would calm a great deal of frustration. We know it’s a game. We get it needs artificial tweaks. Clarity is better than opaque 

[Rashidi]

25 minutes ago, Golob said:

This is when the frustration comes because the game becomes a fight vs built-in modifiers (for reasonable outcomes), not so much vs the opposition abilities/tactics.

The game doesn't have built in modifiers like you describe that attempt to produce expected outcomes that are reasonable by SI standards, otherwise I wont be seeing Tottenham Hotspur get relegated so often. It has managers for the AI, a set of plans the manager uses, it has players the manager is more likely to use based on his preferred formation and a set of plans he will turn to if a game isn't proceeding to plan. Now if the manager is a complete idiot, and that has happened a few times as far as I can tell, then its not the fault of the engine, its the fault of the person who decided the tactic the manager was going to use. This season most of the managers are working off better designed tactics and have a reasonable plan B in case plan A doesn't work. 

There is nothing opaque about it. What the game lacks is an updated description of mentality and tool tips that explain the roles and instructions in a bit more detail.

[Baked]

Having a nightmate with this latest update with conceding penalites.

Last season gave away 6 penalties, this season which I started after the latest update...13 in 24 games. Though patch says nothing about ME tweaks so i don't understand it.

I have even set my tactic to stay on feet (was never stuck in) and I had my defenders on ease off tackles anyway and the last game I played we gave away 2 pens.

 

Edited January 29, 2023 by Baked