Official Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

ajw10 · January 22, 2023

we need to stop only thinking that game breaking bugs matter. Bugs that affect enjoyment and make it feel like a "job" instead of a fun hobby are just as important

Edited January 22, 2023 by ajw10

roykela · January 22, 2023

I feel like i need to express my feelings about this game. It'll be long and probably perceived as a rant.
I'm fully aware of that and you have been warned

I find that i'm not excited at all about this game. It's just the old 'adding features' but nothing else has been done.
There are bugs that's been in there for ages but nothing's been done to resolve them. It's putting me off.
Player interactions, promises, stats....you name it. It's all so disjointed and disconnected to what actually seems to happen.
It's the best footie management game out there but it's rapidly declining in quality.

For a new player it's probably amazing, until the player starts noticing the flaws. There are many.
Looking back on when i've been asked by people if the new release is any good i've always said "it has the potential".
I'm tired of saying that. I want to say "yeah, it's great". But that's what it feels and appears like. Always the potential.
It always feels like a work in progress. Don't get me wrong. I know this game series is always a work in progress. What i mean is that each release, in itself, is an unfinished product.
This has got to stop. For the first time i'm actually having thoughts like "maybe take a break for a year and fix the product".
I know that would harm the product in the short term financially. But if it continues the same way we will have a product that gets more and more broken as it continues. THAT could be a catastrophic thing.

They need to do something.
Communication is next to 0 because "ooooh, someone said something unreasonable and bad". It's customer service, guys. It's not ok but it's even worse sticking your heads in the sand. I work in customer service as well and what i find is that lack of communication is THE major culprit in making the situation worse.
People want communication. Not for the sake of it but to be able to better understand. If they understand they will be happier and will cooperate more. Apart from that one person. There's always that one person
It reeks of social awkwardness. Which is fine in itself but then you really should get some people in who can communicate with the players.
The patching/updating strategy is not ok. You find a flaw, you fix it and you release an update. If they are minor flaws then it shouldn't be too bad fixing them (not saying easy). Instead of giving them low priority and never fix them. That's worse long term.
It is something i've warned about quite some time ago and now we're exactly at that point.

For a seasoned FM player, compared to earlier iterations, this game just isn't good.
By itself it's decent.

- Custom views
- Broken interactions and promises.
- Match engine a step forward and then a step back with the next update (every year).
- 6-7 months without a significant update every year for a product that has many elements of it not working as intended.
- So many unnecessary screens. Many screens aren't needed in this game. Subjective opinion? I'm sure it is.
- More and more clicks every year to get to the basics.
- Etc. Etc.

Every year i intend to create bug reports about my findings but in the end i don't. Why? There are so many bugs and flaws i wouldn't actually be able to play the game if i reported everything. Certainly not enjoy it.
Small and minor? Sure. But bugs and flaws none the less, which should be fixed.

It appears to me that SI have bit off way more than what they can chew and are stuck with it.
Why that is i could only speculate. But the setup internally has to be overhauled. If, IF, it continues like this they and we will have a massive problem with this game in a fairly near future.

They need to overhaul absolutely everything about this game.
It's like old-school mentality is trying to get in touch with the modern times, building on an old foundation. It isn't working.

To understand the game one is directed to the tactical forums. Great. But there are articles there that make it easier to just get a real life license in order to understand the game.
Why the need to keep the basic functions of the game in the dark? The game needs to have explanations on how and why. Inside the game. Not articles and videos from everyone else.
Misconceptions are easily born and sustained easily. I have no problems seeing why they appear and survive. There's virtually no explanation given to players by the game or official sources.

I still love the game but not as much as i used to. I'm falling out of love with it. Because this product really needs to get better.
At the moment, it feels like FM24 will be the make or break version for me. With the disappointment which is FM23 it needs to be significantly better in order to make me want to play it.
I love the prospect of Women's leagues in the game and it would be a huge plus if that would make it to FM24. Wouldn't be enough though. The basics need to be fixed and virtually flawless.
By basics i mean the bugs and errors that has been there for around a decade. A decade!!! That's inexcusable.

I could have written one single line which i could copy and paste to the feedback forum every year, as my feedback. "Same feedback as last year".
Ok, i would probably have to link to the original feedback in that case.
But my point is that my feedback could easily be the same year after year, because the exact same problems are there year after year.
So many of the new added features i don't even touch, so they wouldn't apply to me.

Like the squad planner this year (subjective, i know)? Why? Just, why? You took one good screen, which just needed to be optimised, split that particular screen into more screens and made all worse. How is that even possible?
When you add new features, make sure they actually work and that they are an improvement and not worsened. And i mean for each version of the game. Not a "we'll add this now, wait for feedback and finish it next year, or the year after". You have an Alpha and a Beta test phase for that.
Don't add features just for the sake of it and fix them 4-5 years later. If they're even there at that point. They might have been taken out for another "improved feature", which has the exact same problem. Rinse and repeat.
It's like you can't see the forest for the trees you're planting. Only...you're aiming for the forest but get so caught up in the individual trees that you don't realise you're in the wrong forest. Thus making everything disconnected.
And the other trees you've planted.....are still outside the forest area you were trying to plant them in, but it's a minor mistake so you've left them there meaning to move them later. Issue now is.....you've left them there too long. They're getting too big to move and the roots are too deep.

Anyway. I managed to get some thoughts out of my head. A bit in the ranty direction, i know. I'm not as disappointed as it might seem
I also know that all of this is just one person's subjective point of view, right here, right now.

I just wish that each version would be as good as the potential it has.
Current Potential: 180
Current Ability: 120

Edited January 22, 2023 by roykela

IrishRovers · January 22, 2023

I'll concede that this is a minor issue but it annoys me - the excessive and hyperbolic descriptions of goals in the text commentary! I just conceded a messy goal to a very physical Cardiff team (against my beautiful, tiny boys at the Barcelona of the midlands, Derby). No problem with the goal at all; in fact it was cool, it felt like the kind of goal you do concede against horrible teams in the Championship when you try to play it on the deck. But the commentary was like 'What a goal! One of the best you'll see all season', or whatever, which they basically say for every goal. It bounced off someone's head, bobbled around the box and someone smashed it in. There should be more variety in the way the text expresses the action, surely, especially to reflect the types of physical, messy, non-skill-based goals you see in the lower leagues. I guess nobody reads the text other than me, haha, and I know the tone is intended to reflect the hyperbolic tone of contemporary football language, but it could just be toned down a wee bit in my view.

Obaaa · January 22, 2023

Any tips on preventing players signing new deals at other clubs? Trying to sign Tielemans but he keeps signing a new deal before the 2022 summer window is even finished. This is with first transfer window off by the way.

Harrymcintyre · January 22, 2023

Have you guys at Si considered just ripping this bore of a game up and going back to CM 01/02 and starting again from there?

Hovis Dexter · January 22, 2023

2 hours ago, blejdek said:

Okay VAR, no offisde, this game...

VAR is rubbish IRL so why not in the game?

CFuller · January 22, 2023

@roykelaI have to agree with a lot of what you have posted. This kind of brutal but mostly constructive feedback - especially coming from a long-time player who is usually so positive about FM - should be a real eye-opener to anyone from SI who is reading it.

Outside of running long-term holiday simulations, I have not actively played FM23 for two months now. That means I can't really say anything about the current state of the match engine, but from all the feedback I've read, and from what I've seen from FM content creators playing the game, it doesn't look great. (And I HATED the beta match engine before the last update.)

What I can say, though, is that long-term FM saves are still not a viable option. Player reputations are still far too slow to increase in younger players, and even slower to decline in older players. International team selections are still based too much on reputation and not enough on form. And frankly, the AI logic when it comes to youth development and transfers is just not good enough.

All that leads to AI squads being (on average) much older than in real-life. Top national teams will pick lots of players aged 30 and over, and very few players aged under 25.

Jude Bellingham will still be the youngest player in the England squad until he is 26. Erling Haaland will still be winning the Premier League Golden Boot when he's 37. Joshua Kimmich will still be playing and running like a 27-year-old when he's almost 40. Meanwhile, Manchester United's best youth prospect rots in the reserves for three years, while Valencia's 20-goal-a-season wonderkid gets told by Spain, "Nah, sorry, we won't even bother picking you until you're 31."

For a series that has always prided itself on being a simulation, that SHOULD NOT be acceptable. Daveincid's mods do a great job of partially fixing these issues to make the game somewhat more realistic, and I cannot give the guy enough credit... but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

And it's all those other things that frustrate me as well - annoying UI glitches, set-pieces that don't work properly, custom views that always get broken, ridiculous staff wage demands, press conferences that ask the same old repetitive questions in completely the wrong context. There are loads of issues that have been in the game for YEARS but still haven't been fixed, no matter how many times they get reported.

It seems to me like SI are making changes and adding new features, just for the sake of making changes and adding new features. Back in FM21, they got rid of a perfectly good timebar and text match report that allowed you to easily find a specific highlight and watch it back at your leisure. Instead, trying to watch back a specific highlight that isn't a key event has become a pointlessly labyrinthian exercise in frustration.

Another change for the sake of change: in FM23, SI rewrote all the dialogue in press conferences and agent interactions and turned them into wordy, almost incomprehensible messes. A lot of the words and phrases are unnecessarily verbose or obscure, when plain and simple language could work just as fine. I really don't want to feel like I'm attending a business seminar every time I speak to an agent about a player's contract demands.

I've now reached that point with Football Manager where it feels too bloated for its own good. This once unstoppable behemoth has turned into a gargantuan, unsustainable mess that is prone to more disasters and PR own goals than the UK government!

If anything, the game now needs to become simpler and more accessible for younger players as well as older ones. A lot of unnecessary features should be stripped back, perhaps even removed completely. (As much as we all hate press conferences, they are part of the modern game, and they are here to stay. Instead of removing them, I would like to see fewer questions - questions that are less repetitive, but more relevant to what is actually happening.)

And instead of giving your manager new accessories that you can't see in the match engine, or adding yet another new feature that won't even work properly until three FMs from now... why don't you just address all those long-term bugs we've been crying about for years?

I would happily take an FM24 with zero new features - and I would even be prepared to wait another year for women's leagues to be added - if everything else about the game was MUCH cleaner, more fluid and more stable than it is now. That's exactly why so many of us were so disappointed with FM23 after that underwhelming feature announcement.

I understand why you guys need to release a new Football Manager every year. I also don't want to point fingers at any staff members or call for their heads. But the last 3-4 months have shown to me that there are serious issues with FM right now, and that it is probably time for some major changes at SI. It cannot go on like this.

Edited January 22, 2023 by CFuller

chipspice1974 · January 22, 2023

57 minutes ago, CFuller said:

@roykelaI have to agree with a lot of what you have posted. This kind of brutal but mostly constructive feedback - especially coming from a long-time player who is usually so positive about FM - should be a real eye-opener to anyone from SI who is reading it.

Outside of running long-term holiday simulations, I have not actively played FM23 for two months now. That means I can't really say anything about the current state of the match engine, but from all the feedback I've read, and from what I've seen from FM content creators playing the game, it doesn't look great. (And I HATED the beta match engine before the last update.)

What I can say, though, is that long-term FM saves are still not a viable option. Player reputations are still far too slow to increase in younger players, and even slower to decline in older players. International team selections are still based too much on reputation and not enough on form. And frankly, the AI logic when it comes to youth development and transfers is just not good enough.

All that leads to AI squads being (on average) much older than in real-life. Top national teams will pick lots of players aged 30 and over, and very few players aged under 25.

Jude Bellingham will still be the youngest player in the England squad until he is 26. Erling Haaland will still be winning the Premier League Golden Boot when he's 37. Joshua Kimmich will still be playing and running like a 27-year-old when he's almost 40. Meanwhile, Manchester United's best youth prospect rots in the reserves for three years, while Valencia's 20-goal-a-season wonderkid gets told by Spain, "Nah, sorry, we won't even bother picking you until you're 31."

For a series that has always prided itself on being a simulation, that SHOULD NOT be acceptable. Daveincid's mods do a great job of partially fixing these issues to make the game somewhat more realistic, and I cannot give the guy enough credit... but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

And it's all those other things that frustrate me as well - annoying UI glitches, set-pieces that don't work properly, custom views that always get broken, ridiculous staff wage demands, press conferences that ask the same old repetitive questions in completely the wrong context. There are loads of issues that have been in the game for YEARS but still haven't been fixed, no matter how many times they get reported.

It seems to me like SI are making changes and adding new features, just for the sake of making changes and adding new features. Back in FM21, they got rid of a perfectly good timebar and text match report that allowed you to easily find a specific highlight and watch it back at your leisure. Instead, trying to watch back a specific highlight that isn't a key event has become a pointlessly labyrinthian exercise in frustration.

Another change for the sake of change: in FM23, SI rewrote all the dialogue in press conferences and agent interactions and turned them into wordy, almost incomprehensible messes. A lot of the words and phrases are unnecessarily verbose or obscure, when plain and simple language could work just as fine. I really don't want to feel like I'm attending a business seminar every time I speak to an agent about a player's contract demands.

I've now reached that point with Football Manager where it feels too bloated for its own good. This once unstoppable behemoth has turned into a gargantuan, unsustainable mess that is prone to more disasters and PR own goals than the UK government!

If anything, the game now needs to become simpler and more accessible for younger players as well as older ones. A lot of unnecessary features should be stripped back, perhaps even removed completely. (As much as we all hate press conferences, they are part of the modern game, and they are here to stay. Instead of removing them, I would like to see fewer questions - questions that are less repetitive, but more relevant to what is actually happening.)

And instead of giving your manager new accessories that you can't see in the match engine, or adding yet another new feature that won't even work properly until three FMs from now... why don't you just address all those long-term bugs we've been crying about for years?

I would happily take an FM24 with zero new features - and I would even be prepared to wait another year for women's leagues to be added - if everything else about the game was MUCH cleaner, more fluid and more stable than it is now. That's exactly why so many of us were so disappointed with FM23 after that underwhelming feature announcement.

I understand why you guys need to release a new Football Manager every year. I also don't want to point fingers at any staff members or call for their heads. But the last 3-4 months have shown to me that there are serious issues with FM right now, and that it is probably time for some major changes at SI. It cannot go on like this.

Agree completely. I feel like I’ve wasted £30 cash as haven’t played the game in 2 months too, should be hammering it as loved fm but just can’t be bothered with it. Strip it back - most new features offer nothing, but make it FUN! I’m playing cm 03/04 at the moment, it’s much simpler but much much more fun

Edited January 22, 2023 by chipspice1974

Daveincid · January 22, 2023

vor einer Stunde schrieb CFuller:

but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

can you specify this a little (via PM if you want). Maybe there are still ways to improve it within the options given.

Pearomaniac · January 22, 2023

8 hours ago, DP said:

This is absurd ffs

This petty stuff runs throughout the interaction module and is completely broken. The entire code needs ripping out and starting again with regards to promises etc.

It pisses me off, it made my main striker wanna be sold for playing in the same exact position he asked me to play. It really made me hate the game for a moment

Flohrinho · January 22, 2023

2 hours ago, CFuller said:

@roykelaI have to agree with a lot of what you have posted. This kind of brutal but mostly constructive feedback - especially coming from a long-time player who is usually so positive about FM - should be a real eye-opener to anyone from SI who is reading it.

Outside of running long-term holiday simulations, I have not actively played FM23 for two months now. That means I can't really say anything about the current state of the match engine, but from all the feedback I've read, and from what I've seen from FM content creators playing the game, it doesn't look great. (And I HATED the beta match engine before the last update.)

What I can say, though, is that long-term FM saves are still not a viable option. Player reputations are still far too slow to increase in younger players, and even slower to decline in older players. International team selections are still based too much on reputation and not enough on form. And frankly, the AI logic when it comes to youth development and transfers is just not good enough.

All that leads to AI squads being (on average) much older than in real-life. Top national teams will pick lots of players aged 30 and over, and very few players aged under 25.

Jude Bellingham will still be the youngest player in the England squad until he is 26. Erling Haaland will still be winning the Premier League Golden Boot when he's 37. Joshua Kimmich will still be playing and running like a 27-year-old when he's almost 40. Meanwhile, Manchester United's best youth prospect rots in the reserves for three years, while Valencia's 20-goal-a-season wonderkid gets told by Spain, "Nah, sorry, we won't even bother picking you until you're 31."

For a series that has always prided itself on being a simulation, that SHOULD NOT be acceptable. Daveincid's mods do a great job of partially fixing these issues to make the game somewhat more realistic, and I cannot give the guy enough credit... but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

And it's all those other things that frustrate me as well - annoying UI glitches, set-pieces that don't work properly, custom views that always get broken, ridiculous staff wage demands, press conferences that ask the same old repetitive questions in completely the wrong context. There are loads of issues that have been in the game for YEARS but still haven't been fixed, no matter how many times they get reported.

It seems to me like SI are making changes and adding new features, just for the sake of making changes and adding new features. Back in FM21, they got rid of a perfectly good timebar and text match report that allowed you to easily find a specific highlight and watch it back at your leisure. Instead, trying to watch back a specific highlight that isn't a key event has become a pointlessly labyrinthian exercise in frustration.

Another change for the sake of change: in FM23, SI rewrote all the dialogue in press conferences and agent interactions and turned them into wordy, almost incomprehensible messes. A lot of the words and phrases are unnecessarily verbose or obscure, when plain and simple language could work just as fine. I really don't want to feel like I'm attending a business seminar every time I speak to an agent about a player's contract demands.

I've now reached that point with Football Manager where it feels too bloated for its own good. This once unstoppable behemoth has turned into a gargantuan, unsustainable mess that is prone to more disasters and PR own goals than the UK government!

If anything, the game now needs to become simpler and more accessible for younger players as well as older ones. A lot of unnecessary features should be stripped back, perhaps even removed completely. (As much as we all hate press conferences, they are part of the modern game, and they are here to stay. Instead of removing them, I would like to see fewer questions - questions that are less repetitive, but more relevant to what is actually happening.)

And instead of giving your manager new accessories that you can't see in the match engine, or adding yet another new feature that won't even work properly until three FMs from now... why don't you just address all those long-term bugs we've been crying about for years?

I would happily take an FM24 with zero new features - and I would even be prepared to wait another year for women's leagues to be added - if everything else about the game was MUCH cleaner, more fluid and more stable than it is now. That's exactly why so many of us were so disappointed with FM23 after that underwhelming feature announcement.

I understand why you guys need to release a new Football Manager every year. I also don't want to point fingers at any staff members or call for their heads. But the last 3-4 months have shown to me that there are serious issues with FM right now, and that it is probably time for some major changes at SI. It cannot go on like this.

Well said, I have been harping on about this for years, mainly about the interaction module but if there is too much stuff that doesn't contribute to the game it's time to take stuff away. The problem is SI keeps adding systems on top of systems and it's not improving the product anymore. This is a clear sign that they need to get rid of some stuff and preferably not stuff that are quality of life improvements for the player, like the mentioned time bar.

rrreee3 · January 22, 2023

6 hours ago, roykela said:

I feel like i need to express my feelings about this game. It'll be long and probably perceived as a rant.
I'm fully aware of that and you have been warned

I find that i'm not excited at all about this game. It's just the old 'adding features' but nothing else has been done.
There are bugs that's been in there for ages but nothing's been done to resolve them. It's putting me off.
Player interactions, promises, stats....you name it. It's all so disjointed and disconnected to what actually seems to happen.
It's the best footie management game out there but it's rapidly declining in quality.

For a new player it's probably amazing, until the player starts noticing the flaws. There are many.
Looking back on when i've been asked by people if the new release is any good i've always said "it has the potential".
I'm tired of saying that. I want to say "yeah, it's great". But that's what it feels and appears like. Always the potential.
It always feels like a work in progress. Don't get me wrong. I know this game series is always a work in progress. What i mean is that each release, in itself, is an unfinished product.
This has got to stop. For the first time i'm actually having thoughts like "maybe take a break for a year and fix the product".
I know that would harm the product in the short term financially. But if it continues the same way we will have a product that gets more and more broken as it continues. THAT could be a catastrophic thing.

They need to do something.
Communication is next to 0 because "ooooh, someone said something unreasonable and bad". It's customer service, guys. It's not ok but it's even worse sticking your heads in the sand. I work in customer service as well and what i find is that lack of communication is THE major culprit in making the situation worse.
People want communication. Not for the sake of it but to be able to better understand. If they understand they will be happier and will cooperate more. Apart from that one person. There's always that one person
It reeks of social awkwardness. Which is fine in itself but then you really should get some people in who can communicate with the players.
The patching/updating strategy is not ok. You find a flaw, you fix it and you release an update. If they are minor flaws then it shouldn't be too bad fixing them (not saying easy). Instead of giving them low priority and never fix them. That's worse long term.
It is something i've warned about quite some time ago and now we're exactly at that point.

For a seasoned FM player, compared to earlier iterations, this game just isn't good.
By itself it's decent.

- Custom views
- Broken interactions and promises.
- Match engine a step forward and then a step back with the next update (every year).
- 6-7 months without a significant update every year for a product that has many elements of it not working as intended.
- So many unnecessary screens. Many screens aren't needed in this game. Subjective opinion? I'm sure it is.
- More and more clicks every year to get to the basics.
- Etc. Etc.

Every year i intend to create bug reports about my findings but in the end i don't. Why? There are so many bugs and flaws i wouldn't actually be able to play the game if i reported everything. Certainly not enjoy it.
Small and minor? Sure. But bugs and flaws none the less, which should be fixed.

It appears to me that SI have bit off way more than what they can chew and are stuck with it.
Why that is i could only speculate. But the setup internally has to be overhauled. If, IF, it continues like this they and we will have a massive problem with this game in a fairly near future.

They need to overhaul absolutely everything about this game.
It's like old-school mentality is trying to get in touch with the modern times, building on an old foundation. It isn't working.

To understand the game one is directed to the tactical forums. Great. But there are articles there that make it easier to just get a real life license in order to understand the game.
Why the need to keep the basic functions of the game in the dark? The game needs to have explanations on how and why. Inside the game. Not articles and videos from everyone else.
Misconceptions are easily born and sustained easily. I have no problems seeing why they appear and survive. There's virtually no explanation given to players by the game or official sources.

I still love the game but not as much as i used to. I'm falling out of love with it. Because this product really needs to get better.
At the moment, it feels like FM24 will be the make or break version for me. With the disappointment which is FM23 it needs to be significantly better in order to make me want to play it.
I love the prospect of Women's leagues in the game and it would be a huge plus if that would make it to FM24. Wouldn't be enough though. The basics need to be fixed and virtually flawless.
By basics i mean the bugs and errors that has been there for around a decade. A decade!!! That's inexcusable.

I could have written one single line which i could copy and paste to the feedback forum every year, as my feedback. "Same feedback as last year".
Ok, i would probably have to link to the original feedback in that case.
But my point is that my feedback could easily be the same year after year, because the exact same problems are there year after year.
So many of the new added features i don't even touch, so they wouldn't apply to me.

Like the squad planner this year (subjective, i know)? Why? Just, why? You took one good screen, which just needed to be optimised, split that particular screen into more screens and made all worse. How is that even possible?
When you add new features, make sure they actually work and that they are an improvement and not worsened. And i mean for each version of the game. Not a "we'll add this now, wait for feedback and finish it next year, or the year after". You have an Alpha and a Beta test phase for that.
Don't add features just for the sake of it and fix them 4-5 years later. If they're even there at that point. They might have been taken out for another "improved feature", which has the exact same problem. Rinse and repeat.
It's like you can't see the forest for the trees you're planting. Only...you're aiming for the forest but get so caught up in the individual trees that you don't realise you're in the wrong forest. Thus making everything disconnected.
And the other trees you've planted.....are still outside the forest area you were trying to plant them in, but it's a minor mistake so you've left them there meaning to move them later. Issue now is.....you've left them there too long. They're getting too big to move and the roots are too deep.

Anyway. I managed to get some thoughts out of my head. A bit in the ranty direction, i know. I'm not as disappointed as it might seem
I also know that all of this is just one person's subjective point of view, right here, right now.

I just wish that each version would be as good as the potential it has.
Current Potential: 180
Current Ability: 120

Aside from very few specific points, you've literally articulated what i've thought about FM for all the years knowing and observing FM series development. Especially the "6-7 months without a significant update every year for a product that has many elements of it not working as intended".

Coming from myself, It's almost comical and ridiculous how people are rebuying the game every year which is just 80-90% exactly same/reused game content compared to previous years. Gaslighted so hard by the game wonders it took decades for them to realize

josel15 · January 22, 2023

A lot has already been said about this years' game, still I would like to add up, because it may not matter on the grand scheme of things, but still will probably be money lost unnecessairly from SI.

I play this game pretty much to see things in the field that I imagine in my head. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't, that's life. The other things are not really that important to me, or something that really catches my eye.

So, after what I said during beta, I will post another review about what I feel about the Match Engine:
- Having the "play out of defense" TI is suicide. When discussing the game with friends they say you should disable it in order to reduce the dumb stuff your defense and midfield does, it goes from "it's your tactics bro" to "it's your game, SI".
- Still on the defense and playing out. Dear god aren't the CD's bad at playing out of the back in this years' game. They can get out of defense with intricate passes between them if pressed, then they can just do some of the most brain dead passes to the opposing forwards and then run away from them and let a easy goal in. Also, they refuse to pass to an open midfielder, passing always to the full backs or just booting it up the field. You can't really progress the ball patiently, it's almost comical how that basic part of football was so neglected.
- Piling up on what I wrote previously, every pass to the midfield (when it rarely happens) is the same as losing the ball because your midfielder will fall asleep and lose the ball.
- When due to some minor miracle your team can get in the opposing midfield it becomes a rush fest. Your players just boot it up. Doesn't matter the mentality, or the TI's, really. I've seen some games in full with various tactics and instructions that the exact moment the ball passes the midfield it's like the pass into space instruction is activated and the midfielders just lob it up. Then I receive the assistant feedback of "we aren't keeping possession in the opponent's half". I mean, yeah, I know, but can't really be my fault when all tactical approaches lead to that. It seems that the only differences you can do are about possession. For how long do you want your centre backs to be passing between them?
- I also don't really like how the winger roles (IF and IW mainly) work. I have been playing FM21 lately and I got EXCITED when I saw an inverted winger cut inside and shoot or pass. Imagine being EXCITED for something as common as an inverted winger cutting inside. This also applies to the AMC roles that were always way too high in the field and acted like Shadow Strikers.
- The difficulty between playing at home and away also is way too big. I was playing with Hajduk Split and I destroyed everyone at home and faced a lot of difficulties playing away, and I felt it was artificially hard, like a flip was switched if I was winning at the 60 min mark. That was funny to watch when playing Dinamo Zagreb and in 10 minutes they go from 0-1 to 2-1, making more than a shot per minute in that time because my centre backs found funny to put the ball in the opposing forwards.
- Too many balls to the wordwork and missed penalties, no further explanation needed.

All in all, I don't feel like I can play the way I envision this FM. It's frustrating. Even winning I don't enjoy it, at all. I uninstalled the game. For the first time since I play FM (since FM13) I am playing a previous edition. This is the year that the two teams I support (Benfica and Arsenal) have two of the most exciting rosters since I support them and...I don't want to play with said rosters because of a broken match engine. People know I love FM, to the point of people making caricatures of me with the FM logo designed with it or some reference to the game. Every year people ask me my feedback about the game and they listen to it and sometimes they buy the game, or wait another year, but I always end with a positive note or something to rave about that years' game. Always positive feedback. This year, I say people not to buy it, that it is a disgrace and to ask me again when the last update is released, because that's it, the last update will determine how I rate this game, but tbh I don't have any expectations for an improve.

Also, because I think sometimes SI gets complacent due to some people that will always say good stuff about the game even if it sucks, this is a message to some members of the community.
Stop with the "it's your tactics, bro" everytime an issue is reported, specially when it's an issue that is widespread and various people complain about the same. It's not because in your game that your winger cutted inside and you record it and you come here with a "gotcha" that the game is perfect and does everything you want. It does not work like that and you end up just saying everyone but you is dumb and there is no incentive for SI to bring out a better game, because eventually who complains will just leave.

Edited January 22, 2023 by josel15
Error in a few words

alian62 · January 22, 2023

1 hour ago, josel15 said:

A lot has already been said about this years' game, still I would like to add up, because it may not matter on the grand scheme of things, but still will probably be money lost unnecessairly from SI.

I play this game pretty much to see things in the field that I imagine in my head. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't, that's life. The other things are not really that important to me, or something that really catches my eye.

So, after what I said during beta, I will post another review about what I feel about the Match Engine:
- Having the "play out of defense" TI is suicide. When discussing the game with friends they say you should disable it in order to reduce the dumb stuff your defense and midfield does, it goes from "it's your tactics bro" to "it's your game, SI".
- Still on the defense and playing out. Dear god aren't the CD's bad at playing out of the back in this years' game. They can get out of defense with intricate passes between them if pressed, then they can just do some of the most brain dead passes to the opposing forwards and then run away from them and let a easy goal in. Also, they refuse to pass to an open midfielder, passing always to the full backs or just booting it up the field. You can't really progress the ball patiently, it's almost comical how that basic part of football was so neglected.
- Piling up on what I wrote previously, every pass to the midfield (when it rarely happens) is the same as losing the ball because your midfielder will fall asleep and lose the ball.
- When due to some minor miracle your team can get in the opposing midfield it becomes a rush fest. Your players just boot it up. Doesn't matter the mentality, or the TI's, really. I've seen some games in full with various tactics and instructions that the exact moment the ball passes the midfield it's like the pass into space instruction is activated and the midfielders just lob it up. Then I receive the assistant feedback of "we aren't keeping possession in the opponent's half". I mean, yeah, I know, but can't really be my fault when all tactical approaches lead to that. It seems that the only differences you can do are about possession. For how long do you want your centre backs to be passing between them?
- I also don't really like how the winger roles (IF and IW mainly) work. I have been playing FM21 lately and I got EXCITED when I saw an inverted winger cut inside and shoot or pass. Imagine being EXCITED for something as common as an inverted winger cutting inside. This also applies to the AMC roles that were always way too high in the field and acted like Shadow Strikers.
- The difficulty between playing at home and away also is way too big. I was playing with Hajduk Split and I destroyed everyone at home and faced a lot of difficulties playing away, and I felt it was artificially hard, like a flip was switched if I was winning at the 60 min mark. That was funny to watch when playing Dinamo Zagreb and in 10 minutes they go from 0-1 to 2-1, making more than a shot per minute in that time because my centre backs found funny to put the ball in the opposing forwards.
- Too many balls to the wordwork and missed penalties, no further explanation needed.

All in all, I don't feel like I can play the way I envision this FM. It's frustrating. Even winning I don't enjoy it, at all. I uninstalled the game. For the first time since I play FM (since FM13) I am playing a previous edition. This is the year that the two teams I support (Benfica and Arsenal) have two of the most exciting rosters since I support them and...I don't want to play with said rosters because of a broken match engine. People know I love FM, to the point of people making caricatures of me with the FM logo designed with it or some reference to the game. Every year people ask me my feedback about the game and they listen to it and sometimes they buy the game, or wait another year, but I always end with a positive note or something to rave about that years' game. Always positive feedback. This year, I say people not to buy it, that it is a disgrace and to ask me again when the last update is released, because that's it, the last update will determine how I rate this game, but tbh I don't have any expectations for an improve.

Also, because I think sometimes SI gets complacent due to some people that will always say good stuff about the game even if it sucks, this is a message to some members of the community.
Stop with the "it's your tactics, bro" everytime an issue is reported, specially when it's an issue that is widespread and various people complain about the same. It's not because in your game that your winger cutted inside and you record it and you come here with a "gotcha" that the game is perfect and does everything you want. It does not work like that and you end up just saying everyone but you is dumb and there is no incentive for SI to bring out a better game, because eventually who complains will just leave.

The year will come soon when sales will take an enormous crash . If FM24 isn't a huge step forward the sales will definitely drop . Personally don't give a hoot about having a women's game if the game itself has to suffer. Dont think I will play it at all but I do understand it might draw women to the game . So FM24 has a lot riding on it .

We don't need new features . We need improvements !!!!!!!!!....

3D Better.. stadiums ( Small stadiums too ) , turf , players ,

Quicker processing , scouting , set pieces ,

The list is just too long with what needs to be improved.

And bring back FM Touch for PC with a pre game editor .

Overmars · January 22, 2023

9 hours ago, roykela said:

For a seasoned FM player, compared to earlier iterations, this game just isn't good.
By itself it's decent.

I disagree. FM23 is at least as good as prior iterations. I have all prior versions and would rather play FM23. That's not to say that the game is perfect. There are countless things to criticize, but that's always been the case. The match engine has never been true to real life, with something always way out of whack (ex. too many goals from corners in FM11, too many crosses in FM21, and too many aerial challenges in FM23).

9 hours ago, roykela said:

The basics need to be fixed and virtually flawless. By basics i mean the bugs and errors that has been there for around a decade. A decade!!! That's inexcusable.

If by bugs you mean things such as adjusting column widths in screens then I agree. I can't believe that I still can't customize my squad view screen without the last couple of columns disappearing. If you extend your wish for "virtually flawless" to the match engine or player behaviour then I don't think it's realistic to hope for perfection. I think those elements are too difficult to model and will always be a work in progress.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Overmars

stevemc · January 22, 2023

Sick to death of players arguing back when I'm confronting them for playing poorly, or continuously playing poorly when the facts of match ratings back up they ARE playing poorly, there's no two ways about it. Me going for the interaction in the first instance IS based on fact.

Then they get the hump.

And repeat.

stevemc · January 22, 2023

Any idea what the goalkeeper is doing? Seen better animations on Sensible Soccer in the 90s.

https://www.veed.io/view/47db462e-4189-4f7f-9e55-6bc2c55276ed?source=compressor-sharing

Edited January 22, 2023 by stevemc

Sunstrikuuu · January 23, 2023

2 hours ago, Overmars said:

If by bugs you mean things such as adjusting column widths in screens then I agree. I can't believe that I still can't customize my squad view screen without the last couple of columns disappearing. If you extend your wish for "virtually flawless" to the match engine or player behaviour then I don't think it's realistic to hope for perfection. I think those elements are too difficult to model and will always be a work in progress.

Do you mean player behavior in the match engine, or outside it?

roykela · January 23, 2023

10 hours ago, Overmars said:

I disagree. FM23 is at least as good as prior iterations. I have all prior versions and would rather play FM23. That's not to say that the game is perfect. There are countless things to criticize, but that's always been the case. The match engine has never been true to real life, with something always way out of whack (ex. too many goals from corners in FM11, too many crosses in FM21, and too many aerial challenges in FM23).

If by bugs you mean things such as adjusting column widths in screens then I agree. I can't believe that I still can't customize my squad view screen without the last couple of columns disappearing. If you extend your wish for "virtually flawless" to the match engine or player behaviour then I don't think it's realistic to hope for perfection. I think those elements are too difficult to model and will always be a work in progress.

Compared to what it should have been (eliminating several year old bugs) i don't find it a good product. By itself it is a decent product.

Column width and behaviour is one of the things. The game is riddled with minor bugs. Like not remembering previous screens, nonsensical interactions (getting asked about my previous game in a pre-match commentary when the game they're asking about happened 3 months earlier, and in a different season). Players on the tactics screen unclickable all of a sudden unless you go back one screen and back again to the tactics screen. Random players on the squad screen are highlighted without being highlighted (clicked). Press conferences not loading properly. Game slowing down significantly as soon as you progress a few seasons (compared to earlier versions) and much more.
I haven't even thought about the ME yet. Without the details, the ME is always 2 steps forward and one step back with it. But strangely enough; the ME is the one part i have the least issues with.

Perfection will never happen. That's why i said 'virtually'. I don't mean it in a literal sense. I should have been more clear about it but i wasn't talking about the ME.
It was more about how stuff outside isn't really connected. As an example; You can have one stat on one screen showing x information and the same stat on another screen showing y information, when they should be the same.
As if the game updates the screens at different times (if at all) during processing, when they should be updated at the same time.

There will always be things to criticise, but when adding new half-arsed features and not fixing old errors the criticism will not lessen. They will just expand.

I also have all versions prior and i miss playing FM22. I've always thought the newest game in the series was the best version. This year it's different.
I consider it an upgraded FM22 with added features which are still in a Beta phase - at best.

stevemc · January 23, 2023

You could probably copy & paste my feedback from FM22 for FM23 and it wouldn’t be far different to this, and I could go on and on regarding points we’ve all raise over the last 3-4 years but it feels it doesn’t get recognised and worked upon but here we are, posting again.

Players, Staff & Interaction

Most of this area needs re-writing for me, some strange interactions in the game and your captain has become almost pointless in resolving any issues with team mates in FM23. There’s so many tasks to take care of, which I enjoy the most-part, but some I don’t trust to leave to staff - which I would do if the features work correctly. Director of Football and Technical Director offer daft contacts out, you can’t trust them to hire/fire staff, or bid for the correct type of player you want, even selling players they struggle with them - what’s the real point in hiring them?

Then Loan Managers, trying to loan players to clubs as a “fringe” to sit on a bench - why would that be good for development? Yes, you can pre-set this but that’s not how it’s intended to work.

Yes, you can sub-task to your staff, but there’s two issues I have with that;

1. If I let staff take control of so many areas, I might as well just play FM touch

2. I don’t trust the staff in the game, some of their decision are poor (no matter how “elite” they may be)

The full-fat version of FM should be immersive enough for the user to want to use most of those full-fat features you've icncluded, sub-tasking them to staff because they’re bugged, or not immersive, is simply not good enough. Interaction is bugged, there’s no two ways about it, there are odd interactions buried throughout. Press Conferences are so repetitive it’s boring, it’s the SAME questions over and over again, some questions are asked at incorrect times, but you can’t give them to your assistant as it negatively effects your profile for future job interviews.

Interaction I think can be solved and improved, but Press Conferences is a real tough one to make immersive and I do sympathise with SI on that.

Repetition Throughout the Game & Matchday

Something I brought up last year was how repetitive FM has become, arguably chore-like, and is becoming more bloated, and I know that’s difficult because it’s replicating real life but it all feels “samey” regardless of what country or level you manage in. Matchdays are all the same, the only thing I really do like is the broadcast licenses, like CL, EL, EFL etc, it’s great and offers differentiation from other match days, but I think that could go further too - all the popups and widgets in game should be branded too, branded Inbox messages etc. The Social Feed has been the same for years, please someone re-design it and make it feel like actual social media, same with the News screen. Stale.

Stadiums need work, we all know this, lower league stadiums are out of proportion, higher up the ladder they all feel the game, with odd graphical placement of things - match days need to feel different, maybe try and attain stadium licenses, even if it’s just for big national stadiums, like Wembley, then cup finals can feel like a real event. Even a basic stadium editor would help the community add immersion. Matchdays are a biggie for me, they need real improvement in terms of stadiums, pitches, weather, lighting, match day widgets - no two matches should really look and/or feel the game. At the minute, a PL match feels no different to the EFL Cup final.

Improvements

The Squad Planner feature is a good idea, but it doesn’t work properly, it changes when it feel likes it and changes between the two views you can switch between - surely that’s a bug? Feels like a half-hearted addition. There’s a lot of odd things about the game in long-term saves, most highlighted already but we shouldn’t have to download Daveincid realism packs to achieve what the game should actually be like from day one - and don’t give me “resource” issues, he literally does it all on his own - why don’t SI just hire him to sort it out as by the sounds of it the conversations with dev’s go nowhere. AI squad building is still iffy in long-term saves, AI don't look after youth players, reputation issues etc - I think that ties into my point above on poor staff. The new Scouting System still needs improvement, again, feels half hearted. The new Manager Timeline, in all honestly, I barely use or look at.

There’s also tons of poor UI and bugs littered throughout the game, too many to highlight, and also odd animations in match which need improving along with the graphics, it’s 2023 for God-sake, look at the tech that’s available! The skin could do with a few tweaks and tidy up’s to make certain information more readily available in the journey, and improve screenflows.

Set Pieces have been the same for years, and are STILL bugged. International Management has not been touched for years and needs an overhaul. Big YouTubers have highlighted these and for me they cannot be ignored for FM24, too many people have highlighted this for at least 2 years now - missing these will hammer home people's thoughts that SI don't actually listen to their user base's feedback.

I could write for hours on improvements, but SI will already know them as everyone posts them in here, but the proof is in the pudding, if/when they start to listen to this feedback? Curious to see if SI have focus-groups on this sort of thing. I love this game, and have done for years but it feels like it’s out growing itself now and is getting out of control in terms of being able to fix errors and bugs and becoming stale.

PRO’s:

UEFA licences - brilliant - MORE LICENSES PLEASE! I hope for FM24 SI can add the Premier League license as the UEFA is a brilliant execution. These do add immersion and differentiation throughout the game, which is badly needed.

CON’s:

Game is littered with bugs (some really silly too) that have been highlighted year-on-year and are still in there, arguably getting worse as more features are layered on top. Fix them, and improve the features you already have. Graphically still way behind what I’d expect from a game in 2023.

So far I’d give it a 6-7 out of 10, but hoping the Winter Patch will push forward some improvements, but FM24 needs BIG improvements for this to progress, and I’d start by really fixing what’s already under the hood.

Edited January 23, 2023 by stevemc

Lempicka · January 23, 2023

I still haven't gone beyond a third season of any of my FM23 saves. After two seasons, I've usually had enough of clicking through repetitive press conferences (yes I know I can delegate them) and seeing the same goals/mistakes every match-day (regardless of personnel or tactics).

I really want to get into this game, but I just can't see the winter patch doing much to save it.

Older versions of the game never felt like a chore. I've tinkered with FM13 and 17 a bit over the last few months and both, when skinned and background pics added, are still very enjoyable.

rp1966 · January 23, 2023

19 minutes ago, Lempicka said:

and seeing the same goals/mistakes every match-day (regardless of personnel or tactics).

I keep seeing comments like this, but as far as goals scored are concerned I think FM23 is giving more variety than ever. As far as goals conceded - if you've got a solid defence chances are there's only a couple of ways the opposition are going to get through you, so that is likely to be repetitive. But I also wonder how perceptions are being skewed by highlight mode - on 'key' you're only gong to see what works for you and what works against you; on comprehensive you get a broader view as you see a lot more of what the ME generates that doesn't result in anything.

abcdf · January 23, 2023

22 ore fa, CFuller ha scritto:

@roykelaI have to agree with a lot of what you have posted. This kind of brutal but mostly constructive feedback - especially coming from a long-time player who is usually so positive about FM - should be a real eye-opener to anyone from SI who is reading it.

Outside of running long-term holiday simulations, I have not actively played FM23 for two months now. That means I can't really say anything about the current state of the match engine, but from all the feedback I've read, and from what I've seen from FM content creators playing the game, it doesn't look great. (And I HATED the beta match engine before the last update.)

What I can say, though, is that long-term FM saves are still not a viable option. Player reputations are still far too slow to increase in younger players, and even slower to decline in older players. International team selections are still based too much on reputation and not enough on form. And frankly, the AI logic when it comes to youth development and transfers is just not good enough.

All that leads to AI squads being (on average) much older than in real-life. Top national teams will pick lots of players aged 30 and over, and very few players aged under 25.

Jude Bellingham will still be the youngest player in the England squad until he is 26. Erling Haaland will still be winning the Premier League Golden Boot when he's 37. Joshua Kimmich will still be playing and running like a 27-year-old when he's almost 40. Meanwhile, Manchester United's best youth prospect rots in the reserves for three years, while Valencia's 20-goal-a-season wonderkid gets told by Spain, "Nah, sorry, we won't even bother picking you until you're 31."

For a series that has always prided itself on being a simulation, that SHOULD NOT be acceptable. Daveincid's mods do a great job of partially fixing these issues to make the game somewhat more realistic, and I cannot give the guy enough credit... but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

And it's all those other things that frustrate me as well - annoying UI glitches, set-pieces that don't work properly, custom views that always get broken, ridiculous staff wage demands, press conferences that ask the same old repetitive questions in completely the wrong context. There are loads of issues that have been in the game for YEARS but still haven't been fixed, no matter how many times they get reported.

It seems to me like SI are making changes and adding new features, just for the sake of making changes and adding new features. Back in FM21, they got rid of a perfectly good timebar and text match report that allowed you to easily find a specific highlight and watch it back at your leisure. Instead, trying to watch back a specific highlight that isn't a key event has become a pointlessly labyrinthian exercise in frustration.

Another change for the sake of change: in FM23, SI rewrote all the dialogue in press conferences and agent interactions and turned them into wordy, almost incomprehensible messes. A lot of the words and phrases are unnecessarily verbose or obscure, when plain and simple language could work just as fine. I really don't want to feel like I'm attending a business seminar every time I speak to an agent about a player's contract demands.

I've now reached that point with Football Manager where it feels too bloated for its own good. This once unstoppable behemoth has turned into a gargantuan, unsustainable mess that is prone to more disasters and PR own goals than the UK government!

If anything, the game now needs to become simpler and more accessible for younger players as well as older ones. A lot of unnecessary features should be stripped back, perhaps even removed completely. (As much as we all hate press conferences, they are part of the modern game, and they are here to stay. Instead of removing them, I would like to see fewer questions - questions that are less repetitive, but more relevant to what is actually happening.)

And instead of giving your manager new accessories that you can't see in the match engine, or adding yet another new feature that won't even work properly until three FMs from now... why don't you just address all those long-term bugs we've been crying about for years?

I would happily take an FM24 with zero new features - and I would even be prepared to wait another year for women's leagues to be added - if everything else about the game was MUCH cleaner, more fluid and more stable than it is now. That's exactly why so many of us were so disappointed with FM23 after that underwhelming feature announcement.

I understand why you guys need to release a new Football Manager every year. I also don't want to point fingers at any staff members or call for their heads. But the last 3-4 months have shown to me that there are serious issues with FM right now, and that it is probably time for some major changes at SI. It cannot go on like this.

Absolutely, the AI is just game breaking and too bad to be true. No youngsters coming trough at all, they just leave them to rot in B teams, often not loaning them for absolutely no reason. Squad rotation is non-existent. They'll just use the same team until everybody is extremely fatigued. AI managers always use their "favourite" formation for years in a row every single game. And don't even get me started on their transfer market. If the AI team has little to no money, it simply won't do anything. Often you see teams being creative when they have little money in the bank, using loans, selling players they could profit from. The AI of this game does not. It simply keeps the same team for 10 years in a row until they are all 35. Look at any big team outside of England after 10 years in game, teams like Juventus and Inter will have the same team full of 35 years old with an average CA of like 140, while in reality even with little to no money they do manage to stay relatively competitive.

I cannot accept that nothing is going to be done to improve the AI for this game, ad update is absolutely due.

Flohrinho · January 23, 2023

Despite all my complaints about the game, here is something I really like about it. The statistics section has improved year upon year and is starting to get really useful, so keep up the good work.

Bakiano · January 23, 2023

On 19/01/2023 at 20:29, RenegadeMaster said:

Finding it very hard to get into a long term save this year.

I think the game is around a 5/10, you see some really good stuff within the ME, but then you see something ridiculous that .

I'm currently into my third season in Belgium. Since the start of the season I've started to notice the same patterns in almost every game in that it's clearly obvious when the opposition is going to score as my team suddenly can't complete a simple five yard pass, can't control a ball or can't make a tackle to save their lives meanwhile the opposition suddenly turns into prime Barcelona from out of nowhere. After that highlight we go back to dominating the game. It's frustrating as this is constantly costing us clean sheets and seems to be the majority of goals we concede.

Wondering if anyone else is seeing the same in their saves?

Exactly the same issue I have. I don't have a problem to be FMd, but to be FMd every 2-3 games is frustrating!

Steve1977beyond · January 23, 2023

On 18/01/2023 at 22:25, bababooey said:

Like clockwork...

1. Ball played into central midfielder

2. Central midfielder dwells on ball

3. Opposition player presses immediately, wins ball with ease

4. 2 passes later, ball ends up in net.

5. Rinse and repeat

I'm sorry guys, but I'm really getting fed up with this match engine. Every other highlight is a mistake (for either team, not JUST against me or the AI, it goes both ways)

I just think this entire engine right now is based around mistakes. A poor touch here? Goal. A bad touch there? Goal. It's almost ALWAYS the same thing happening over and over again.

Where is the variety in play? Why are players just so blissfully unaware of what is happening around them?

Look at the video below, please.

https://imgur.com/a/pLVxaI9

Keep in mind, the player doing the closing down in midfield here (Ruiz de Galarreta), has 11 aggression, 8 bravery, 11 determination, 11 accel, 9 pace and 7 strength. YET, despite this, he's able to close down TWO world class players in quick succession like he's Roy Keane out there in his prime. If that isn't proof that pressing in midfield is vastly overpowered, I don't know what is.

Are you watching on key highlights? if so then surely every bad mistake is going to end up in a goal as it's invariably a key highlight? Reading Alans post above alarms me also in the sense that if pre-patch, the match engine did have more chaos and watching a game in League 2 was different to the prem, then SI nailed it, but because of poor feedback they then reverted back. SI should have gone into much more detail when doing the preview videos, similar to the ones done on The Athletic podcast.

Platinum · January 23, 2023

On 22/01/2023 at 12:55, roykela said:

I feel like i need to express my feelings about this game. It'll be long and probably perceived as a rant.
I'm fully aware of that and you have been warned

I find that i'm not excited at all about this game. It's just the old 'adding features' but nothing else has been done.
There are bugs that's been in there for ages but nothing's been done to resolve them. It's putting me off.
Player interactions, promises, stats....you name it. It's all so disjointed and disconnected to what actually seems to happen.
It's the best footie management game out there but it's rapidly declining in quality.

For a new player it's probably amazing, until the player starts noticing the flaws. There are many.
Looking back on when i've been asked by people if the new release is any good i've always said "it has the potential".
I'm tired of saying that. I want to say "yeah, it's great". But that's what it feels and appears like. Always the potential.
It always feels like a work in progress. Don't get me wrong. I know this game series is always a work in progress. What i mean is that each release, in itself, is an unfinished product.
This has got to stop. For the first time i'm actually having thoughts like "maybe take a break for a year and fix the product".
I know that would harm the product in the short term financially. But if it continues the same way we will have a product that gets more and more broken as it continues. THAT could be a catastrophic thing.

They need to do something.
Communication is next to 0 because "ooooh, someone said something unreasonable and bad". It's customer service, guys. It's not ok but it's even worse sticking your heads in the sand. I work in customer service as well and what i find is that lack of communication is THE major culprit in making the situation worse.
People want communication. Not for the sake of it but to be able to better understand. If they understand they will be happier and will cooperate more. Apart from that one person. There's always that one person
It reeks of social awkwardness. Which is fine in itself but then you really should get some people in who can communicate with the players.
The patching/updating strategy is not ok. You find a flaw, you fix it and you release an update. If they are minor flaws then it shouldn't be too bad fixing them (not saying easy). Instead of giving them low priority and never fix them. That's worse long term.
It is something i've warned about quite some time ago and now we're exactly at that point.

For a seasoned FM player, compared to earlier iterations, this game just isn't good.
By itself it's decent.

- Custom views
- Broken interactions and promises.
- Match engine a step forward and then a step back with the next update (every year).
- 6-7 months without a significant update every year for a product that has many elements of it not working as intended.
- So many unnecessary screens. Many screens aren't needed in this game. Subjective opinion? I'm sure it is.
- More and more clicks every year to get to the basics.
- Etc. Etc.

Every year i intend to create bug reports about my findings but in the end i don't. Why? There are so many bugs and flaws i wouldn't actually be able to play the game if i reported everything. Certainly not enjoy it.
Small and minor? Sure. But bugs and flaws none the less, which should be fixed.

It appears to me that SI have bit off way more than what they can chew and are stuck with it.
Why that is i could only speculate. But the setup internally has to be overhauled. If, IF, it continues like this they and we will have a massive problem with this game in a fairly near future.

They need to overhaul absolutely everything about this game.
It's like old-school mentality is trying to get in touch with the modern times, building on an old foundation. It isn't working.

To understand the game one is directed to the tactical forums. Great. But there are articles there that make it easier to just get a real life license in order to understand the game.
Why the need to keep the basic functions of the game in the dark? The game needs to have explanations on how and why. Inside the game. Not articles and videos from everyone else.
Misconceptions are easily born and sustained easily. I have no problems seeing why they appear and survive. There's virtually no explanation given to players by the game or official sources.

I still love the game but not as much as i used to. I'm falling out of love with it. Because this product really needs to get better.
At the moment, it feels like FM24 will be the make or break version for me. With the disappointment which is FM23 it needs to be significantly better in order to make me want to play it.
I love the prospect of Women's leagues in the game and it would be a huge plus if that would make it to FM24. Wouldn't be enough though. The basics need to be fixed and virtually flawless.
By basics i mean the bugs and errors that has been there for around a decade. A decade!!! That's inexcusable.

I could have written one single line which i could copy and paste to the feedback forum every year, as my feedback. "Same feedback as last year".
Ok, i would probably have to link to the original feedback in that case.
But my point is that my feedback could easily be the same year after year, because the exact same problems are there year after year.
So many of the new added features i don't even touch, so they wouldn't apply to me.

Like the squad planner this year (subjective, i know)? Why? Just, why? You took one good screen, which just needed to be optimised, split that particular screen into more screens and made all worse. How is that even possible?
When you add new features, make sure they actually work and that they are an improvement and not worsened. And i mean for each version of the game. Not a "we'll add this now, wait for feedback and finish it next year, or the year after". You have an Alpha and a Beta test phase for that.
Don't add features just for the sake of it and fix them 4-5 years later. If they're even there at that point. They might have been taken out for another "improved feature", which has the exact same problem. Rinse and repeat.
It's like you can't see the forest for the trees you're planting. Only...you're aiming for the forest but get so caught up in the individual trees that you don't realise you're in the wrong forest. Thus making everything disconnected.
And the other trees you've planted.....are still outside the forest area you were trying to plant them in, but it's a minor mistake so you've left them there meaning to move them later. Issue now is.....you've left them there too long. They're getting too big to move and the roots are too deep.

Anyway. I managed to get some thoughts out of my head. A bit in the ranty direction, i know. I'm not as disappointed as it might seem
I also know that all of this is just one person's subjective point of view, right here, right now.

I just wish that each version would be as good as the potential it has.
Current Potential: 180
Current Ability: 120

It really is a shame but I feel exactly the same way. Also if anyone has seen Rashidis recent video about FM where he offers constructive criticism I really agree there too.

The one big flaw that encompasses nearly all the flaws: SI add new features to the game that have multiple bugs and don't get round to fixing them as they are deemed low priority. This happens every year and it means that you end up with a game with a growing amount of bugs that are never fixed. One simple example: the stats in the game are inconsistent and its been like this since at least FM17, thats 6 years.

Please SI communicate with us better so that we understand why this happens. We honestly want to understand why features like earrings are added to the game (and are buggy and we can't even see during gameplay), while we have bugs to interactions, promises, stats, and more that aren't fixed.

We love what this game has been and can be, but we can see flaws that are getting worse year on year, and it's making a significant part of your core fanbase unhappy. I understand that the reason is likely a commercial one, you have to grow your profits each year and adding features is seen as the way to grow profits, but the current trajectory of the game does not seem sustainable. Make the foundations solid and build on top of it.

For me personally, if FM24 doesnt have a better set piece creator, the stats inconsistencies arent fixed or the DoF functionality isnt improved it will be very hard to justify spending money on it.

Platinum · January 23, 2023

On 22/01/2023 at 14:50, CFuller said:

@roykelaI have to agree with a lot of what you have posted. This kind of brutal but mostly constructive feedback - especially coming from a long-time player who is usually so positive about FM - should be a real eye-opener to anyone from SI who is reading it.

Outside of running long-term holiday simulations, I have not actively played FM23 for two months now. That means I can't really say anything about the current state of the match engine, but from all the feedback I've read, and from what I've seen from FM content creators playing the game, it doesn't look great. (And I HATED the beta match engine before the last update.)

What I can say, though, is that long-term FM saves are still not a viable option. Player reputations are still far too slow to increase in younger players, and even slower to decline in older players. International team selections are still based too much on reputation and not enough on form. And frankly, the AI logic when it comes to youth development and transfers is just not good enough.

All that leads to AI squads being (on average) much older than in real-life. Top national teams will pick lots of players aged 30 and over, and very few players aged under 25.

Jude Bellingham will still be the youngest player in the England squad until he is 26. Erling Haaland will still be winning the Premier League Golden Boot when he's 37. Joshua Kimmich will still be playing and running like a 27-year-old when he's almost 40. Meanwhile, Manchester United's best youth prospect rots in the reserves for three years, while Valencia's 20-goal-a-season wonderkid gets told by Spain, "Nah, sorry, we won't even bother picking you until you're 31."

For a series that has always prided itself on being a simulation, that SHOULD NOT be acceptable. Daveincid's mods do a great job of partially fixing these issues to make the game somewhat more realistic, and I cannot give the guy enough credit... but these mods cannot fix the atrocious AI logic. Only SI can.

And it's all those other things that frustrate me as well - annoying UI glitches, set-pieces that don't work properly, custom views that always get broken, ridiculous staff wage demands, press conferences that ask the same old repetitive questions in completely the wrong context. There are loads of issues that have been in the game for YEARS but still haven't been fixed, no matter how many times they get reported.

It seems to me like SI are making changes and adding new features, just for the sake of making changes and adding new features. Back in FM21, they got rid of a perfectly good timebar and text match report that allowed you to easily find a specific highlight and watch it back at your leisure. Instead, trying to watch back a specific highlight that isn't a key event has become a pointlessly labyrinthian exercise in frustration.

Another change for the sake of change: in FM23, SI rewrote all the dialogue in press conferences and agent interactions and turned them into wordy, almost incomprehensible messes. A lot of the words and phrases are unnecessarily verbose or obscure, when plain and simple language could work just as fine. I really don't want to feel like I'm attending a business seminar every time I speak to an agent about a player's contract demands.

I've now reached that point with Football Manager where it feels too bloated for its own good. This once unstoppable behemoth has turned into a gargantuan, unsustainable mess that is prone to more disasters and PR own goals than the UK government!

If anything, the game now needs to become simpler and more accessible for younger players as well as older ones. A lot of unnecessary features should be stripped back, perhaps even removed completely. (As much as we all hate press conferences, they are part of the modern game, and they are here to stay. Instead of removing them, I would like to see fewer questions - questions that are less repetitive, but more relevant to what is actually happening.)

And instead of giving your manager new accessories that you can't see in the match engine, or adding yet another new feature that won't even work properly until three FMs from now... why don't you just address all those long-term bugs we've been crying about for years?

I would happily take an FM24 with zero new features - and I would even be prepared to wait another year for women's leagues to be added - if everything else about the game was MUCH cleaner, more fluid and more stable than it is now. That's exactly why so many of us were so disappointed with FM23 after that underwhelming feature announcement.

I understand why you guys need to release a new Football Manager every year. I also don't want to point fingers at any staff members or call for their heads. But the last 3-4 months have shown to me that there are serious issues with FM right now, and that it is probably time for some major changes at SI. It cannot go on like this.

Great post, and its the same with me, most of my game time has been testing long term saves, which unfortunately aren't viable.

bababooey · January 23, 2023

On 22/01/2023 at 07:55, roykela said:

I feel like i need to express my feelings about this game. It'll be long and probably perceived as a rant.
I'm fully aware of that and you have been warned

I find that i'm not excited at all about this game. It's just the old 'adding features' but nothing else has been done.
There are bugs that's been in there for ages but nothing's been done to resolve them. It's putting me off.
Player interactions, promises, stats....you name it. It's all so disjointed and disconnected to what actually seems to happen.
It's the best footie management game out there but it's rapidly declining in quality.

For a new player it's probably amazing, until the player starts noticing the flaws. There are many.
Looking back on when i've been asked by people if the new release is any good i've always said "it has the potential".
I'm tired of saying that. I want to say "yeah, it's great". But that's what it feels and appears like. Always the potential.
It always feels like a work in progress. Don't get me wrong. I know this game series is always a work in progress. What i mean is that each release, in itself, is an unfinished product.
This has got to stop. For the first time i'm actually having thoughts like "maybe take a break for a year and fix the product".
I know that would harm the product in the short term financially. But if it continues the same way we will have a product that gets more and more broken as it continues. THAT could be a catastrophic thing.

They need to do something.
Communication is next to 0 because "ooooh, someone said something unreasonable and bad". It's customer service, guys. It's not ok but it's even worse sticking your heads in the sand. I work in customer service as well and what i find is that lack of communication is THE major culprit in making the situation worse.
People want communication. Not for the sake of it but to be able to better understand. If they understand they will be happier and will cooperate more. Apart from that one person. There's always that one person
It reeks of social awkwardness. Which is fine in itself but then you really should get some people in who can communicate with the players.
The patching/updating strategy is not ok. You find a flaw, you fix it and you release an update. If they are minor flaws then it shouldn't be too bad fixing them (not saying easy). Instead of giving them low priority and never fix them. That's worse long term.
It is something i've warned about quite some time ago and now we're exactly at that point.

For a seasoned FM player, compared to earlier iterations, this game just isn't good.
By itself it's decent.

- Custom views
- Broken interactions and promises.
- Match engine a step forward and then a step back with the next update (every year).
- 6-7 months without a significant update every year for a product that has many elements of it not working as intended.
- So many unnecessary screens. Many screens aren't needed in this game. Subjective opinion? I'm sure it is.
- More and more clicks every year to get to the basics.
- Etc. Etc.

Every year i intend to create bug reports about my findings but in the end i don't. Why? There are so many bugs and flaws i wouldn't actually be able to play the game if i reported everything. Certainly not enjoy it.
Small and minor? Sure. But bugs and flaws none the less, which should be fixed.

It appears to me that SI have bit off way more than what they can chew and are stuck with it.
Why that is i could only speculate. But the setup internally has to be overhauled. If, IF, it continues like this they and we will have a massive problem with this game in a fairly near future.

They need to overhaul absolutely everything about this game.
It's like old-school mentality is trying to get in touch with the modern times, building on an old foundation. It isn't working.

To understand the game one is directed to the tactical forums. Great. But there are articles there that make it easier to just get a real life license in order to understand the game.
Why the need to keep the basic functions of the game in the dark? The game needs to have explanations on how and why. Inside the game. Not articles and videos from everyone else.
Misconceptions are easily born and sustained easily. I have no problems seeing why they appear and survive. There's virtually no explanation given to players by the game or official sources.

I still love the game but not as much as i used to. I'm falling out of love with it. Because this product really needs to get better.
At the moment, it feels like FM24 will be the make or break version for me. With the disappointment which is FM23 it needs to be significantly better in order to make me want to play it.
I love the prospect of Women's leagues in the game and it would be a huge plus if that would make it to FM24. Wouldn't be enough though. The basics need to be fixed and virtually flawless.
By basics i mean the bugs and errors that has been there for around a decade. A decade!!! That's inexcusable.

I could have written one single line which i could copy and paste to the feedback forum every year, as my feedback. "Same feedback as last year".
Ok, i would probably have to link to the original feedback in that case.
But my point is that my feedback could easily be the same year after year, because the exact same problems are there year after year.
So many of the new added features i don't even touch, so they wouldn't apply to me.

Like the squad planner this year (subjective, i know)? Why? Just, why? You took one good screen, which just needed to be optimised, split that particular screen into more screens and made all worse. How is that even possible?
When you add new features, make sure they actually work and that they are an improvement and not worsened. And i mean for each version of the game. Not a "we'll add this now, wait for feedback and finish it next year, or the year after". You have an Alpha and a Beta test phase for that.
Don't add features just for the sake of it and fix them 4-5 years later. If they're even there at that point. They might have been taken out for another "improved feature", which has the exact same problem. Rinse and repeat.
It's like you can't see the forest for the trees you're planting. Only...you're aiming for the forest but get so caught up in the individual trees that you don't realise you're in the wrong forest. Thus making everything disconnected.
And the other trees you've planted.....are still outside the forest area you were trying to plant them in, but it's a minor mistake so you've left them there meaning to move them later. Issue now is.....you've left them there too long. They're getting too big to move and the roots are too deep.

Anyway. I managed to get some thoughts out of my head. A bit in the ranty direction, i know. I'm not as disappointed as it might seem
I also know that all of this is just one person's subjective point of view, right here, right now.

I just wish that each version would be as good as the potential it has.
Current Potential: 180
Current Ability: 120

I would give you a bit wet kiss on the cheek for this post. Absolutely spot on.

CFuller · January 23, 2023

1 hour ago, Platinum said:

Great post, and its the same with me, most of my game time has been testing long term saves, which unfortunately aren't viable.

It's been a few years now since I had a proper long-term save that I could really get into. This has been a problem with FM for some time.

We're seeing the same issues now as we did on FM22, with AI squads being too old and not developing their youngsters. It was completely the opposite on FM21, where younger players would develop and older players would decline far too quickly. There was a major bug on FM20 where user-managed teams would get youth intakes that were always one year older than AI-managed teams. In my opinion, the last FM where long-term saves were seriously viable was FM19.

It seems like SI have become too focussed on satisfying those FMers who only play a few seasons and finish before the newgens take over. That's all well and good, but please don't forget about the long-time players.

At the end of every season on my 25-year holiday save, I looked at the top European national teams - England, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal and Spain - noting which players they picked, when they made their debuts, and how old they were on their debuts. I also kept a list of every real-life international player from those same seven nations who made their debut within the last 25 years, so that I had something to compare my findings to.

Between 2022 and 2047 on my holiday save, not a single teenager made their debut for the England senior team. ZERO. There were a couple of 20-year-olds who broke through, but that was it. Only 1 teenager was capped by France, 2 each by Italy, Portugal and Spain, 3 by the Netherlands, and a whopping 7 by Germany. That's 17 teenagers who broke into any of the top European national teams, over the course of 25 years.

To put that into context, 28 teenagers played for England between 1998 and 2022 - and that's before I even get to any of the other six nations.

On FM23, a player from a major European country on FM23 is more likely to make their international debut after they turn 25 rather than before, and many quality players have to wait ridiculously long to get their chance. For example, Valencia had a striker that Spain wouldn't give a debut to until he was 31, by which point he had scored nearly 200 La Liga goals and had finished as the league's top scorer FIVE times. He was also eligible for Nigeria and could have easily switched to them if he wanted to.

This thread is for general feedback, so I won't bore you with all the gory details right now. It's all in an Excel workbook that I've been sitting on for a couple of weeks now, while trying to decide how best to use it.

I thought about reporting these findings in the Bug Tracker, but it seemed like - instead of reporting a clear and specific bug - I would just be reporting the symptoms of multiple potential bugs. AI not developing their youngsters, reputation not growing fast enough, international teams ignoring in-form players, too many veterans not declining fast enough. All those issues add up to unrealistic results like this.

I don't ask for hyperrealism (otherwise Arsenal would win every match on everyone's save ), but I still expect certain standards from a game that promotes itself as a simulator. Football Manager 2023 just isn't meeting those standards, and Football Manager as a series hasn't met those standards for several years now. That's why I feel so disillusioned right now.

Edited January 23, 2023 by CFuller

Vlowman · January 23, 2023

I think one area that the game needs to improve upon is making the footballing world feel more alive and therefore the story telling more immersive. For example, in FM17 I got Sheffield Wednesday to three Champions League finals in a row and lost them all - game didn't really care. In FM21, taking Sunderland from League 1 to the Champions League places the game made NOTHING out of the fact I'd got two back to back promotions and leap frogged local rivals Newcastle. This year, I noted in a blink and you miss it bit of news that Wayne Rooney had become the Everton manager. That's a fun and exciting development - if it happened in real life the sports news, papers and podcasts would be all over it, but there was barely a ripple in the waters of my FM game.

They've added that screen that plots out your achievements, but it doesn't really address what I'm talking about. Make more of the story SI, please!

Flohrinho · January 23, 2023

On the long term save debate, I have to add that I'm only 4 season into my "long term" save, and I already notice the competition in the PL getting weaker. First season with United I only came third, Liverpool and City seemed unbeatable. Second season I narrowly won the league with 1 point ahead of Liverpool and only secured the title on the last day. Third season it was City who pushed me until the 3 last games of the season, they lost, drew and won their last three games so overall the league win looked quite comfortable with 9 points. Now the fourth season, it seems their squad is getting too old and the new players they bought don't fit into their system. I won the league on game day 32, with 6 games to go, end of the season neither Chelsea (2nd) nor Liverpool (3rd) got over 80 points.

stevemc · January 23, 2023

Here is the perfect example to back up my argument that staff interaction is somewhat flawed, and doesn't matter how good staff attributes are as they go away and do whatever they like.

Here is Andrea Berta suggesting a recruitment focus for AM(R) as we are weak in this area, according to the assistant manager, who's on the touchline for every single game.

I don't play with AM(R) or AM(L), never have, my formation is 3-4-1-2.

His suggestion is pointless, and in real life this idea wouldn't even be brought to the table for discussion, certainly not from someone as good and experienced as Andrea Berta.

Andrea Berta is one of the best Director of Football appointments you can make, look at his attributes - but he's not joined up with how I'm managing the club, so what's the point?

Might not seem like a biggie, but the FM is littered with these inconsistencies which just begins to grind down the immersion.

HUNT3R · January 23, 2023

6 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Here is the perfect example to back up my argument that staff interaction is somewhat flawed, and doesn't matter how good staff attributes are as they go away and do whatever they like.

Please report these issues in the bug tracker, as you have examples.

stevemc · January 23, 2023

Another example here too, of odd pointless, interactions.

Jan Oblak, apparently not happy at his playing time and should be starting more games.

He's transfer listed. Has been for two months. He's listed because he was warned about his poor form three times, he disagreed so I put him up for sale and immediately dropped him, this was a conversation within the game with him.

I'm guessing this is just simply linked and coded to his playing time being set at "First Choice Goalkeeper" rather than him realising the actual situation that's going on around him, which breaks immersion.

Pointless asking Koke, although he could simply say "you're on the transfer list mate, you're up for sale".

What's even odder is when I go in and have the conversation with him, the option is there for me to say "I'll look to sell your for the good of your career" to which he responds with "I don't want to leave boss, I just want to play, I'll show more patience in future".

He's already up for sale, what's he not understanding?

HUNT3R · January 23, 2023

2 minutes ago, stevemc said:

He's already up for sale, what's he not understanding?

Another example of something that should be reported in the bug tracker. :thup:

Sunstrikuuu · January 23, 2023

Another example of something that has been reported in the bug tracker, and in the old bug forums before that, which is part of why people complain about it so much.

stevemc · January 23, 2023

27 minutes ago, Sunstrikuuu said:

Another example of something that has been reported in the bug tracker, and in the old bug forums before that, which is part of why people complain about it so much.

Very true. SI are aware of all of this stuff, but nothing appears to get done, despite the amount of times it's reported, which is so frustrating

ostkiz · January 23, 2023

hace 19 minutos, stevemc dijo:

Very true. SI are aware of all of this stuff, but nothing appears to get done, despite the amount of times it's reported, which is so frustrating

Dying of success, It's really necessary for football manager have competency, zero effort on listen the community , zero self-criticism and of course zero fun playing this game.

SAD

stevemc · January 23, 2023

28 minutes ago, ostkiz said:

Dying of success, It's really necessary for football manager have competency, zero effort on listen the community , zero self-criticism and of course zero fun playing this game.

SAD

The bizarre thing is the majority of the FM community really want the best for the game and want to help things to improve, to have that at your fingers tips from SI's point-of-view is amazing and should be positively tapped into - but it's just becoming a negative space due to the lack to responses back, feels like it's all one way, then SI do whatever they want anyway despite raising feedback and populating the bugs forum for years, or in some cases people actually having direct conversations with SI.

The big FM YouTubers are all over this too now, this is the second video DoctorBenjy has hosted regarding FM23 and FM in general - the lack of FM content this year on FM23 from DoctorBenjy and Zealand is so quiet it's almost deafening. Without serious improvement, this negative social cloud which is just beginning to bubble up is going to grow over the coming FM releases, now is the time to react.

Some great feedback and thought provokes in this vid:

Edited January 23, 2023 by stevemc

Tyburn · January 23, 2023

I’ve tried to remain restrained for quite a while now, but EVERYONE knows the bugs that have been around for years, because, they’ve been around for YEARS!

The bug tracker is literally pointless. I mean it’s SI’s game. They made it. They tested it. They already KNOW the bugs the game has. And if they need us to point them out to them they are doing it wrong. Some of the bugs are bugs that have been in the game for YEARS!

Reporting them, again, in the bug tracker does WHAT exactly!? Sure, point out new ones that have been caused by new “features” (even though I fail to see how a studio can not see them for themselves) But ones that have been around forever!??

SI. Use the vast profits you make as a company to STOP the yearly cycle, for at least a year, hire more staff that can fix the most ridiculously SIMPLE bugs that have been in the game for years and then release a POLISHED version of what has been basically the same game for at least the last 4 years now.

I don’t need more “features”. I want what you’ve created to WORK without breaking immersion and without making you look like clowns.

FIX THE BASICS!

(This rant has been inspired by the line “report it in the bug tracker” for literally ANYTHING, even bugs that have been around for years.)

GOODNAME · January 23, 2023

SI really need to break the same scenario year after year after year

BETA OUT - decent ME

1ST patch (before Christmas) - going backwards

Winter patch - playable ME but still not enough

stevemc · January 24, 2023

I wouldn't be against a yearly subscription model option (not limited to) for this game if it came with regular communication, support and more smaller updates throughout the calendar year, Alpha/Beta logins for pre-testing and pre-feedback ahead of feature rollouts etc - could be a viable option for the hardcore FM audience.

Edited January 24, 2023 by stevemc

duvels · January 24, 2023

10 hours ago, Tyburn said:

I’ve tried to remain restrained for quite a while now, but EVERYONE knows the bugs that have been around for years, because, they’ve been around for YEARS!

The bug tracker is literally pointless. I mean it’s SI’s game. They made it. They tested it. They already KNOW the bugs the game has. And if they need us to point them out to them they are doing it wrong. Some of the bugs are bugs that have been in the game for YEARS!

Reporting them, again, in the bug tracker does WHAT exactly!? Sure, point out new ones that have been caused by new “features” (even though I fail to see how a studio can not see them for themselves) But ones that have been around forever!??

SI. Use the vast profits you make as a company to STOP the yearly cycle, for at least a year, hire more staff that can fix the most ridiculously SIMPLE bugs that have been in the game for years and then release a POLISHED version of what has been basically the same game for at least the last 4 years now.

I don’t need more “features”. I want what you’ve created to WORK without breaking immersion and without making you look like clowns.

FIX THE BASICS!

(This rant has been inspired by the line “report it in the bug tracker” for literally ANYTHING, even bugs that have been around for years.)

The worst part is that if real life football has some new thing (VAR, defenders being allowed into the box when there's a goal kick etc), it's possible to integrate those immediately. So the "it's hard to implement so it takes time" doesn't always hold up.

alian62 · January 24, 2023

10 hours ago, Tyburn said:

I’ve tried to remain restrained for quite a while now, but EVERYONE knows the bugs that have been around for years, because, they’ve been around for YEARS!

The bug tracker is literally pointless. I mean it’s SI’s game. They made it. They tested it. They already KNOW the bugs the game has. And if they need us to point them out to them they are doing it wrong. Some of the bugs are bugs that have been in the game for YEARS!

Reporting them, again, in the bug tracker does WHAT exactly!? Sure, point out new ones that have been caused by new “features” (even though I fail to see how a studio can not see them for themselves) But ones that have been around forever!??

SI. Use the vast profits you make as a company to STOP the yearly cycle, for at least a year, hire more staff that can fix the most ridiculously SIMPLE bugs that have been in the game for years and then release a POLISHED version of what has been basically the same game for at least the last 4 years now.

I don’t need more “features”. I want what you’ve created to WORK without breaking immersion and without making you look like clowns.

FIX THE BASICS!

(This rant has been inspired by the line “report it in the bug tracker” for literally ANYTHING, even bugs that have been around for years.)

Unfortunetly thats not true i think . The bug tracker is there because we all use so many different systems that they cant track them all , hence the beta versions . Take the latest update for an example .This has never happened to me but after the update my 3D game became slow and jerky and i couldnt play it , This happened to a percentage of people but others it wasnt an issue . Just because SI test it and it worked doesnt mean it isnt working on a consumers system that he / she uses . I do agree however that a certain amount of bugs that have exisisted for years should be fixed by now and im guessing they prioritise to the amount of complaints they get every year .

Either they are building up to a great new release next year or the year after or they have become stuck in where to go from here . How many more features do we really need ? because this years have fallen flat and i agree with LOKI that the womens game is being created just to satisfy the political correctness society because this is mainly a male dominated played game . Thats not to say a womens Football manager would not be good but in reality how many women play this game right now and how many will it draw to play the game .

I agree that the yearly cycle of a beta , then release , then a patch , then a update then a final update really is a bore . Subscription models just end up being a rip of for the consumer in the long run .

Edited January 24, 2023 by alian62

rp1966 · January 24, 2023

1 hour ago, alian62 said:

Either they are building up to a great new release next year or the year after or they have become stuck in where to go from here . How many more features do we really need ? because this years have fallen flat and i agree with LOKI that the womens game is being created just to satisfy the political correctness society because this is mainly a male dominated played game . Thats not to say a womens Football manager would not be good but in reality how many women play this game right now and how many will it draw to play the game .

Women's football is for life; not just a one edition publicity grab

Here's what I mean by this. Bringing in women's leagues means you need to maintain the databases for those leagues on an ongoing basis. Are the researchers there? Are they going to continue to be? How does that affect preparation of the mid-season db update - it already takes an eternity after the closing of the window - have SI made the process for updating and verifying the data more efficient?

What unique league and transfer rules are in place in the women's leagues are there that will need to be kept up to date in parallel with the men's game? We already see from comments on currently licensed leagues that SI are failing to ensure that all leagues included the game work properly or have up to date rules and then there's going to be numerous women's leagues on top of that. You can bet that those few people who are into the women's game will be fanatical about it and will call SI out on every little thing the same as happens with all the issues in the US game.

Is the women's game going to have it's own match engine? It probably should have - ME changes; we are told are incredibly complex and delicate. SI tell us it's a major task to stop excessive long balls out of defence or get IW/IF players acting in a correct manner. yet at the same time they can create an ME that will convey all the subtleties of the differences between men's and women's games and maintain it on an ongoing basis.

A different model for player development and aging out of the game?

The point here is not really about women's football - it's about FM and focus. The game is slowly degrading - new features get added; they contain bugs (inevitable) - the game breaking or higher profile ones get fixed. Everything else just gets kicked into the long grass. There's an ongoing accumulation of unresolved issues throughout the game. Adding the women's game is going to require changes to every area of a game that is already exhibiting huge fragility in the face of even minor changes like this year's new features.

How can we expect FM to absorb such an expansion of scope when the current game appears to be unsupportable in its current form.

stevemc · January 24, 2023

Another UI bug, circled in red, showing two different pieces of information for the same outcome (face and the heart).

I've seen this a few times, and it corrects itself after half time.

Sanel · January 24, 2023

34 minutes ago, stevemc said:

Another UI bug, circled in red, showing two different pieces of information for the same outcome (face and the heart).

I've seen this a few times, and it corrects itself after half time.

You sure its not due your using a custom skin?

stevemc · January 24, 2023

15 minutes ago, Sanel said:

You sure its not due your using a custom skin?

Possibly in my instance, but I've seen this pop-up in YouTube videos too.

Tyburn · January 24, 2023

2 hours ago, alian62 said:

Unfortunetly thats not true i think . The bug tracker is there because we all use so many different systems that they cant track them all , hence the beta versions . Take the latest update for an example .This has never happened to me but after the update my 3D game became slow and jerky and i couldnt play it , This happened to a percentage of people but others it wasnt an issue . Just because SI test it and it worked doesnt mean it isnt working on a consumers system that he / she uses . I do agree however that a certain amount of bugs that have exisisted for years should be fixed by now and im guessing they prioritise to the amount of complaints they get every year .

Either they are building up to a great new release next year or the year after or they have become stuck in where to go from here . How many more features do we really need ? because this years have fallen flat and i agree with LOKI that the womens game is being created just to satisfy the political correctness society because this is mainly a male dominated played game . Thats not to say a womens Football manager would not be good but in reality how many women play this game right now and how many will it draw to play the game .

I agree that the yearly cycle of a beta , then release , then a patch , then a update then a final update really is a bore . Subscription models just end up being a rip of for the consumer in the long run .

It's the blind "report it in the bug tracker" that is the problem and SI's refusal to fix long standing bugs. Not the bug tracker itself, which, as has been said, is useful for "new" bugs that game updates and user's individual systems throw up.

If there are SO many bugs, that have nothing to do with people's systems, or new "features", or new versions or game updates, that have been reported year after year, then SI is not putting enough resources into doing the BASICS.

The majority are not even bugs. It is just badly excecuted code. That should have been looked at by now.

My advise to SI, for what it is worth, as MANY have suggested, is to take a small step back and polish the game we all love. PRIORITISE fixing the code! Stop adding new features that create more problems to, what is, lets face it, an ancient, creaking program.

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