*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[andu1]

2 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

Yes, I would mind that, but what’s that got to do with anything?

They already updated the ME on touch version which is the same as the full version. If the ME as this good as you say they wouldn't have rushed the touch update would they?

[Harrymcintyre]

2 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

Think of SI as the airline and FM as the plane. 

I think I’m already on the plane and I’m waiting for an upgrade to first class, if you please. 

[Caletti]

2 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

I think I’m already on the plane and I’m waiting for an upgrade to first class, if you please. 

Maybe you are waiting for first class but I am still on airport because the engine on plane is broken.

[(sic)]

17 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

In my view, they didn’t release any further updates is because on release, the ME is working very well in fact, I fully support SI taking their time so as not to go 2 steps back with anything cos it’s playing just fine as it is. I for one invite SI to take their time and do their thing. 

Good for you if you can enjoy the match engine. 

The problem is, many of us here simply aren't enjoying it. To say that YOU'RE happy with it, and so YOU invite them to take their time, is kinda selfish though. ME is NOT working very well.
Many people in this thread have given up on the game due to how horrible some of the things in this ME are. Many can't wait for those issues to be fixed. Many who are still playing are getting annoyed in almost every single match due to dumb decisions and mistakes some players make, due to ME not working properly. 

Now I'm not trying to rush them into releasing a mess that fixes those issues but creates 10 other issues. But I'm also very much against this narrative that "everything's fine", "this is the best ME ever", etc. It's not, and we should be getting these fixes ASAP.

[SC00P0NE]

2 hours ago, BamBamBam said:

What skin is that?

pretty sure it's FLUT skin, it's what I use..

[greenz81]

Neil Brock replied to my other post:

 

It's a different game on a different platform, one which was ready to be released, so we did so and announced it.

When an update is ready and released for other versions, we'll announce that. We don't tend to pre-announce when updates are coming because in software development things often can change for a variety of reasons - such as dates. 

When we have any further news we'll make sure to let everyone know across all the various channels as we usually do. 

Edited November 30, 2022 by greenz81

[Neil Brock]

Replied in that other thread but just to be clear on what's happened here with an update for FM Touch - It is a different game on a different platform. Whilst there are elements of shared code, there's a fair amount which isn't. 

When an update is ready and released, we'll announce it. We don't tend to pre-announce updates as so many things can change in software development (such as dates).

[Harrymcintyre]

5 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Good for you if you can enjoy the match engine. 

The problem is, many of us here simply aren't enjoying it. To say that YOU'RE happy with it, and so YOU invite them to take their time, is kinda selfish though. ME is NOT working very well.
Many people in this thread have given up on the game due to how horrible some of the things in this ME are. Many can't wait for those issues to be fixed. Many who are still playing are getting annoyed in almost every single match due to dumb decisions and mistakes some players make, due to ME not working properly. 

Now I'm not trying to rush them into releasing a mess that fixes those issues but creates 10 other issues. But I'm also very much against this narrative that "everything's fine", "this is the best ME ever", etc. It's not, and we should be getting these fixes ASAP.

You’re not trying to rush them, but you ‘demand fixes ASAP’. So which is it? 

[Caletti]

1 minute ago, Neil Brock said:

Replied in that other thread but just to be clear on what's happened here with an update for FM Touch - It is a different game on a different platform. Whilst there are elements of shared code, there's a fair amount which isn't. 

When an update is ready and released, we'll announce it. We don't tend to pre-announce updates as so many things can change in software development (such as dates).

And still "its ready when its ready". You are kidding but it's not funny. 

[andu1]

Yea i remember the day both touch and normal were available in steam and they were not so different back then..

oh well back to playing... the waiting game as for sure i cannot play the game now when i see what is fixed on touch

[GOODNAME]

It will be next week

Shame that they first priority is not the PC version. 

[Ferocious289]

2 minutes ago, Harrymcintyre said:

You’re not trying to rush them, but you ‘demand fixes ASAP’. So which is it? 

How about both.

The game was released on 8th November, the game is still in beta from when it was released mid October that's nearly 2 months where people are playing a beta version of the game. So we paid for a full game but we're playing an unfinished beta with a host of bugs, you damn right a multi millionaire company should be rushing to release fixings ASAP

[(sic)]

1 minute ago, Harrymcintyre said:

You’re not trying to rush them, but you ‘demand fixes ASAP’. So which is it? 

I'm not demanding anything. I just said they should release the patch as soon as possible - meaning as soon as ready. I don't want them to "take their time" or "wait" or hold on to it, or whatever. If it's ready, release it right away.

Neil has actually just replied and cleared things up, so in fact, the patch isn't ready as FM touch and FM aren't the same games. I'm not demanding they release it right now.

[greenz81]

4 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Replied in that other thread but just to be clear on what's happened here with an update for FM Touch - It is a different game on a different platform. Whilst there are elements of shared code, there's a fair amount which isn't. 

When an update is ready and released, we'll announce it. We don't tend to pre-announce updates as so many things can change in software development (such as dates).

@Neil BrockYou have been working for SI 15 years+. I know you understand this community. Why is there no clear communication? You know we will kick up a stink when we see the bugs (which was initially blamed on, its your tactics) are fixed on another platform. The community would assume the PC version take priority, considering its the oldest version and the version you can get really 'deep' into.

I want to run as many leagues as i can, on full detail. Touch doesnt do that for me.

[XaW]

We have a ban on car analogies, do we really need one for air travel as well?

[Neil Brock]

14 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

@Neil BrockYou have been working for SI 15 years+. I know you understand this community. Why is there no clear communication? You know we will kick up a stink when we see the bugs (which was initially blamed on, its your tactics) are fixed on another platform. The community would assume the PC version take priority, considering its the oldest version and the version you can get really 'deep' into.

I want to run as many leagues as i can, on full detail. Touch doesnt do that for me.

Different teams working on different products on different platforms. It's not a case of prioritising one thing over another - it's about releasing something when it's ready. That will be the case on other platforms too.

In terms of clearer communication your feedback will be taken on board, but current studio policy is that we don't pre-announce update dates. 

[Caletti]

7 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

Different teams working on different products on different platforms. It's not a case of prioritising one thing over another - it's about releasing something when it's ready. That will be the case on other platforms too.

In terms of clearer communication your feedback will be taken on board, but current studio policy is that we don't pre-announce update dates. 

Ok, I understand and I don't want a specific date. You could tell us on what stage the work on the patch is at.

[BuzzR]

Just now, Neil Brock said:

it's about releasing something when it's ready

With all due respect was the ME ready for release on November 8th ?

There were big issues raised during beta regarding ME and they weren't addressed. Not even a tiny patch. We could argue that the ME wasn't ready but the game was released ( for whatever commercial reasons - probably ). 

So I could continue and assume that on November 8th there was no issue with "releasing something when it's ready".

Sometimes it feels like principles and rules are called upon only when they suit a specific narrative. 

It seems like there is no accountability, there is only PR. This is something that I think SI should fix, because it's becoming pretty obvious we are served standard speeches and empty customer relationship phrases that mean nothing. 

Slowly but surely SI will loose touch with us all if the only communication we get is " it's ready when is ready" with a footnote *only applies when SI considers fit. 

[kiingallen]

The standards have been well and truly set. It’s sad, but will just have to use this going into any future releases and decide the value of purchasing at release or after.  

[Domoboy23]

I'm still confused I have to say.

Of course FM Touch and FM have different code and different teams... but surely the ME is the same on each? (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

In which case the frustration stems that people aren't asking for every single fix and patch rolled into a major update. They are quite happy to just get the updated ME and then fire the other stuff along later

Edited November 30, 2022 by Domoboy23

[andu1]

1 minute ago, kiingallen said:

The standards have been well and truly set. It’s sad, but will just have to use this going into any future releases and decide the value of purchasing at release or after.  

Yeah... here as well. The hype surrounding the beta always gets me and i fail to remember that with each year the real FM experience is after the first major update( some will argue after the latest update ). 

[JensenS]

Im so sad and mad u fooled me again this year! Its the same every year, but this year i dont get having a beta and no release patch - it surely was not ready, so the “its ready when its ready” is getting kind of insulting.. at least come with communication and updates. I love FM, heck I Live FM! But its getting tiresome year after year…

[Jellico73]

2 hours ago, KeegBCFC said:

Is there a way to extend a players trial? Surely this should be an option 

I think you have to wait for the initial trail to expire, then offer them a new one.  2 weeks is the minimum you need to find out everything about the player though.  ! week will get you some information but not all of it.

[Jellico73]

2 hours ago, autohoratio said:

Even a simple "We were able to release an update for Touch immediately, but for XYZ reason we aren't able to release an update for the full game just yet" comment from SI would go a long way

And the number of "Why fix Touch first when PC is a bigger platform..." variety of threads would also go up...

[Jellico73]

38 minutes ago, Caletti said:

Ok, I understand and I don't want a specific date. You could tell us on what stage the work on the patch is at.

They stage they are on is that they are working on it..

At the end of the day, do you want the patch done right?  Or do you want the patch done right now?  

[Neil Brock]

10 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

I'm still confused I have to say.

Of course FM Touch and FM have different code and different teams... but surely the ME is the same on each? (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

In which case the frustration stems that people aren't asking for every single fix and patch rolled into a major update. They are quite happy to just get the updated ME and then fire the other stuff along later

It isn't that simple - whilst the game is modular, the match engine isn't done in complete isolation, so can't be just lifted and placed into something else. 

Also with the way submissions work across the various platforms, it isn't just a case of saying "we'll update this bit now, and do the next bit in x days" - there's lead in times, test plans and specific checks required by QA. There are a significant amount of moving parts which mean as much as we'd like to say "it's coming on x date", sometimes these submissions fail or QA find a problem which means we have to delay. 

Would certainly make my life a lot easier if I could put out a date and we can guarantee it'll be released on that. We could look to give ourselves a longer lead in time so we can submit and run checks well in advance so we could have a pre-announce update date which we'd almost certainly be able to hit, but that would mean we'd potentially be holding a ready update for a date we've pre-announced. 

The counter to that is - "why not do that and then just release it as soon as it's ready even if it's before?" - then we'd be in a position where we're constantly shifting the goalposts publicly.

We do communicate on these forums and try to be transparent when and where we can. It's no secret we're working on an update and it'll include ME changes alongside a number of other areas for issues flagged via our Bug Tracker. When that's available you'll be the first to know.

I actually don't know when the update is coming. I'm off at the moment as have been recovering from Covid for the last couple of weeks - I only logged on these forums just to have a read of some feedback in my free time  

[Domoboy23]

5 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

I actually don't know when the update is coming. I'm off at the moment as have been recovering from Covid for the last couple of weeks - I only logged on these forums just to have a read of some feedback in my free time  

I bet you're so glad you did that  hope you're back in tip top condition soon

[greenz81]

 

2 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

It isn't that simple - whilst the game is modular, the match engine isn't done in complete isolation, so can't be just lifted and placed into something else. 

Also with the way submissions work across the various platforms, it isn't just a case of saying "we'll update this bit now, and do the next bit in x days" - there's lead in times, test plans and specific checks required by QA. There are a significant amount of moving parts which mean as much as we'd like to say "it's coming on x date", sometimes these submissions fail or QA find a problem which means we have to delay. 

Would certainly make my life a lot easier if I could put out a date and we can guarantee it'll be released on that. We could look to give ourselves a longer lead in time so we can submit and run checks well in advance so we could have a pre-announce update date which we'd almost certainly be able to hit, but that would mean we'd potentially be holding a ready update for a date we've pre-announced. 

The counter to that is - "why not do that and then just release it as soon as it's ready even if it's before?" - then we'd be in a position where we're constantly shifting the goalposts publicly.

We do communicate on these forums and try to be transparent when and where we can. It's no secret we're working on an update and it'll include ME changes alongside a number of other areas for issues flagged via our Bug Tracker. When that's available you'll be the first to know.

I actually don't know when the update is coming. I'm off at the moment as have been recovering from Covid for the last couple of weeks - I only logged on these forums just to have a read of some feedback in my free time  

@Neil BrockI've mentioned this multiple times on this forum and I believe it would save you a headache, but just utilise the beta branch. We all understand it would be beta, but for us it would still be better that what we currently have. UI upgrade, competition updates, a work-in-progress match engine, anything!

I follow other games that constantly use there beta branches... and they even give us a beta patch list (i know SI dont do it, but they really should)

SI need to move with the times, its not the year 2000 anymore.... Everyone can access the internet from any device in their possession. Sometimes its like information is only shared on these forums after an amount of pressure.

[TheArsenal63]

I don't imagine that anything said here really impacts how SI go about their business, it is what it is.

What is interesting and a bit concerning this year is that several big streamers have commented frequently on the bad defending. It's a little comical when they try to take it seriously on their stream and the ball keeps going over the defenders head constantly. Most of them are tacticians or like to think of themselves like that, but there's not much they can do fix a known bug.

These streamers have big audiences and it's a bad look for SI tbh. That seems like the only thing that might ever have a chance of getting them to change their development, QA and release practices.

You can't keep releasing a game broken on launch and thing you can get away with it, eventually (as much as they feel confident it doesn't affect their bottom line) it will catch up with them because they take the patience of FM players for granted.

I play so many other games and if those companies pulled any of this, their fan bases are...not the most patient. The worst thing that can happen to any company is not negativity, it's when people stop caring or lose interest.

[andu1]

SI, Last year you could do the update on both platforms on the same day, this year you cant. Maybe your team is spread to thin on too many platforms? You can imagine we are frustrated that you ca play FM now on another platform that apparently solves the defending issues that arised since beta. And on the PC we are still waiting because some other issue that "might" arise. I dont think i ve ever been this unhappy with an FM before. 

[DarJ]

11 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

but just utilise the beta branch.

I’ve asked that before and the answer was along the line of the game is available on multiple platforms now and not all of them provide that functionality

Edited November 30, 2022 by DarJ

[Domoboy23]

On a completely separate note.

Before the matchday UI got ruined years ago. Remember the screen when it told you about notable bits for each team before the game? Winning streak, debuts, 100th apperances, a goal off 50 etc. I'd love to see this brought back again in the future

 

[Beltsu]

3 hours ago, andu1 said:

Just look at these fixes for touch we need right now on PC

 

-Adjusted the directness in some teams.
-Reduced the number of unrealistic lofted passes.
-Reduced players losing ball too cheaply when playing with back to goal.
-Reduced the frequency of defenders giving the ball away in and around the box.
-Tweaks to defender anticipation when running towards the ball to attempt an interception.
-Tweaks to defender decision-making for aerial balls.
-Fixed defenders incorrectly stepping up at times when defending in a back 3 with no fullbacks/wingbacks.
-Improved centre defender decision-making when covering for fellow CB outside the area.
-Improved corner defending, particularly defending at the near post.
-Tweaks to defender reaction times in situations where they've switched off and made a mistake.

Well, after reading this, I’ll just wait for the ME patch before I load the game again.

[Ferocious289]

45 minutes ago, Jellico73 said:

They stage they are on is that they are working on it..

At the end of the day, do you want the patch done right?  Or do you want the patch done right now?  

The point is the patch should have already been done by now. This isn't some small indie company, they sell millions and millions of copies each year which they get from loyal fm players who buy and help give feedback to improve the game each year,  Theyare a big enough company in terms of funds who can afford to allocate a team to work overtime on fixing bugs on a product which has been released unfinished. If there was a rival in the market that had equal sales in management sim who were competing, you can bet your bottom the patch would have been released on the 2nd week  of release date of the game, the latest, with an apology on top. You see it in other games all the time, because they have the competition and can't afford to leave their customers waiting around twiddling their thumbs and have them lose interest to pick another competitor

Keep in mind we've been waitin for a patch since October. 2 months and to not even release a minor update is nothing short of a disgrace and taking customers for granted. Though to be honest it's probably best they don't release any more pr statements as when they do find the time to do so most of it come off as dismissive, as if the community is a nuicance for demanding/expecting feedback on the progress of updates

Edited November 30, 2022 by Ferocious289

[autohoratio]

23 minutes ago, DarJ said:

I’ve asked that before and the answer was along the line of the game is available on multiple platforms now and not all of them provide that functionality

There's also that the vast majority of those who opted into the previous beta branches never provided any feedback for it, making it a pretty useless endeavor. That said, it wasn't something a lot of people would even have known existed, and the way to report bugs wasn't advertised very well. Even today you can go to pretty much any FM fansite and see people posting bugs there – or in fact tweeting "@MilesSI i found this bug FIX YOUR BROKEN GAME!!!111" – thinking that's the way to report them instead of on the SI bugtracker.

[greenz81]

31 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

The point is the patch should have already been done by now. This isn't some small indie company, they sell millions and millions of copies each year which they get from loyal fm players who buy and help give feedback to improve the game each year,  Theyare a big enough company in terms of funds who can afford to allocate a team to work overtime on fixing bugs on a product which has been released unfinished. If there was a rival in the market that had equal sales in management sim who were competing, you can bet your bottom the patch would have been released on the 2nd week  of release date of the game. You see it in other games all the time, because they have the competition and can't afford to leave their customers waiting around twiddling their thumbs and have them lose interest to pick another competitor

Keep in mind we've been waitin for a patch since October. 2 months and to not even release a minor update is nothing short of a disgrace and taking customers for granted. Though to be honest it's probably best they don't release any more pr statements as when they do find the time to do so most of it come off as dismissive, as if the community is a nuicance for demanding/expecting feedback on the progress of updates

Agree with this totally. I've been buying FM since CM2. Ive been a defender of SI for years. But these last few years they have fell right off. The big snazzy 'features' that then get left unattended the following year. Constantly removing useful features that 'doesnt make it realistic' that then makes us have to download a skin to bring them back or extra clicks we have to do to get somewhere simple. The constant mentioning of how many hours of games have been played by Miles. How about mention how many patches every year for the game gets released, that never have any new features, they just fix more bugs!!!  Focus is all on the wrong places.

Set-piece manager would be nice. Coaches actually giving me advice and not pointing out the obvious. I'd rather you remove press conferences if it gave me more options to speak to my players.

I read the suggested features thread, so many great ideas from over the years.... not implemented

Also another frustrating thing.... when they make BIG changes to the ME from last year, you only find out after reading through multiple posts, when a mod will explain what changed. Why don't SI just get an someone to do a video with all the changes to the match engine. Explain why you done these changes. The tactical presets that were removed..... that couldve easily been explained in the promotional video they uploaded pre-release

 

Edited November 30, 2022 by greenz81
another thing...

[KeegBCFC]

1 hour ago, Jellico73 said:

I think you have to wait for the initial trail to expire, then offer them a new one.  2 weeks is the minimum you need to find out everything about the player though.  ! week will get you some information but not all of it.

You shouldn't have to wait for the trial to expire, you should be able to offer an extension to the trial in order to keep watching them in friendlies etc, or at the very least on the day of the trial expiring be given an option to extend it. That would be more realistic imo. 

[gunnerfan]

Thanks to Neil for the answers provided above. I can appreciate the operational issues in bringing a game of this complexity to market. That said, several folks have suggested above that some of the "features" that have been added have served to detract from the gaming experience and can be (to be blunt) a pain in the a$$, and that the game might be best served by eliminating some of them (or at least making them less invasive). I would hope that SI will, in Neil's words, take these suggestions on-board. 

Every year, as the expected release date grows near, and posters speculate on what new features the new version of FM might include, there are always some who say they will wait until the post-January update comes out before they buy. I will for the foreseeable future be one of those people. Not saying this to slag SI, but having pre-ordered the game this year, I can say I get very little out of playing the beta version and I find the first saved game of the new release to be something of a shakeout cruise. Better to wait for the complete package. To me, it will be well worth forsaking the preorder discount.

[Jellico73]

1 hour ago, Ferocious289 said:

The point is the patch should have already been done by now. This isn't some small indie company, they sell millions and millions of copies each year which they get from loyal fm players who buy and help give feedback to improve the game each year,  Theyare a big enough company in terms of funds who can afford to allocate a team to work overtime on fixing bugs on a product which has been released unfinished. If there was a rival in the market that had equal sales in management sim who were competing, you can bet your bottom the patch would have been released on the 2nd week  of release date of the game, the latest, with an apology on top. You see it in other games all the time, because they have the competition and can't afford to leave their customers waiting around twiddling their thumbs and have them lose interest to pick another competitor

Keep in mind we've been waitin for a patch since October. 2 months and to not even release a minor update is nothing short of a disgrace and taking customers for granted. Though to be honest it's probably best they don't release any more pr statements as when they do find the time to do so most of it come off as dismissive, as if the community is a nuicance for demanding/expecting feedback on the progress of updates

So what part of Neils post are you taking issue with in this response?

 

[greenz81]

12 minutes ago, Jellico73 said:

So what part of Neils post are you taking issue with in this response?

 

Are you Neil's guardian?  Ferocious289 has valid points! They released a small update for Gerrards sacking in beta!! But they can't release small patch for UI issues, competitions rule updates, manager movements!

If your happy to buy unfinished games, go you! Must have money to burn!

Plus Neil only responded after we questioned why the Touch patch was released before PC version. We kind of 'forced' SI to give us the information, which we shouldnt have to do

Edited November 30, 2022 by greenz81
Added comment

[Ferocious289]

1 minute ago, Jellico73 said:

So what part of Neils post are you taking issue with in this response?

 

I'm not going to single anyone out I was talking in general, I've said what I've had to say and expressed my thoughts. I'm not here to bash anyone for the sake of it, just highlight the fact it is poor that I'm having to wait until I don't know when before I can play a functional game which I paid for last month and all I've heard so far from the team at launch is that they're happy with the game, and hopefully some time before xmas some fixes will get dropped and it will be released when it's ready

[TheAwesomeGem]

I honestly don't understand how QE overlooked the buggy match engine. Although the match engine has very high potential, there are very obvious bugs that you can test after like only an hour of gameplay. For that bug to not be sorted before BETA and there were no patches after BETA and won't be until mid December is a bit mind blowing. I believe QA is getting worse for Football Manager over time.

[Bakiano]

I know it is just a friendly game, but the Gk to have two assists is frustrating!

[andu1]

3 minutes ago, TheAwesomeGem said:

I honestly don't understand how QE overlooked the buggy match engine. Although the match engine has very high potential, there are very obvious bugs that you can test after like only an hour of gameplay. For that bug to not be sorted before BETA and there were no patches after BETA and won't be until mid December is a bit mind blowing. I believe QA is getting worse for Football Manager over time.

Yeah... they fixed the defending... in the touch version. I am still not convinced which of those fixes cannot be applied right now to the PC version. We just wait for the sake of waiting

[greenz81]

Just now, TheAwesomeGem said:

I honestly don't understand how QE overlooked the buggy match engine. Although the match engine has very high potential, there are very obvious bugs that you can test after like only an hour of gameplay. For that bug to not be sorted before BETA and there were no patches after BETA and won't be until mid December is a bit mind blowing. I believe QA is getting worse for Football Manager over time.

I dont think they missed it. They refuse to use the beta branch, because its inaffective. They refuse to release beta patch notes, because its not their working practise. Refuse to update us on current patches being worked on.

I suspect the coding is a mess. Coded by multiple people over the years, come and gone, and they are in the midst of untangling the mess. A bit like how Windows gets worse every time. The original programmers are now retired/passed on, and the next generation are just building on top of old code, they dont understand properly. 

[andu1]

5 minutes ago, Bakiano said:

I know it is just a friendly game, but the Gk to have two assists is frustrating!

Lofted over the defence assists? Wait until the ME patch is appiled to PC. Might have to wait one or two more weeks though.

[Neil Brock]

20 minutes ago, TheAwesomeGem said:

I honestly don't understand how QE overlooked the buggy match engine. Although the match engine has very high potential, there are very obvious bugs that you can test after like only an hour of gameplay. For that bug to not be sorted before BETA and there were no patches after BETA and won't be until mid December is a bit mind blowing. I believe QA is getting worse for Football Manager over time.

There's a huge difference between spotting an issue and addressing an issue - especially in something as complex as the match engine. Even the tiniest tweak has the potential to change the balance entirely. It's always quite easy to spot someone who doesn't really have much knowledge of software development when they point the finger at QA. 

We stand by our belief that there is no better computer game simulation of a football match out there on the market today than what was released with FM23. Whilst there's obviously extremely enjoyable football games where you control the players, those are created to play an entire match in the space of 12 minutes, not replicate real life football. We're not deaf to issues raised within the community and alongside points raised within our internal team and always strive for any ME update to improve on what is already out there. And when we do, we'll of course be listening out to feedback from our community. 

[Neil Brock]

29 minutes ago, greenz81 said:

I dont think they missed it. They refuse to use the beta branch, because its inaffective. They refuse to release beta patch notes, because its not their working practise. Refuse to update us on current patches being worked on.

I suspect the coding is a mess. Coded by multiple people over the years, come and gone, and they are in the midst of untangling the mess. A bit like how Windows gets worse every time. The original programmers are now retired/passed on, and the next generation are just building on top of old code, they dont understand properly. 

Paul Collyer is still very much a part of our match engine development team today - he created Championship Manager with his brother thirty years ago. He coded the very first match engine and has been heavily involved in every version since, including the one you're playing now and the one that'll be in our next update. 

[eXistenZ]

hmm, second time this save I had the following:

 

-"gaf, im not playing enough"

-"you're right,  i promise to play you more" (plays him the following match). 3 days later:

"gaf, im exploring my options when my contract runs out in 18 months"

 

If you change one thing, i really wish its impossible for players to declare this 18 months in advance.... 12/13 months, fine. i even like it, its more realistic.

Edited November 30, 2022 by eXistenZ

[greenz81]

5 minutes ago, Neil Brock said:

There's a huge difference between spotting an issue and addressing an issue - especially in something as complex as the match engine. Even the tiniest tweak has the potential to change the balance entirely. It's always quite easy to spot someone who doesn't really have much knowledge of software development when they point the finger at QA. 

We stand by our belief that there is no better computer game simulation of a football match out there on the market today than what was released with FM23. Whilst there's obviously extremely enjoyable football games where you control the players, those are created to play an entire match in the space of 12 minutes, not replicate real life football. We're not deaf to issues raised within the community and alongside points raised within our internal team and always strive for any ME update to improve on what is already out there. And when we do, we'll of course be listening out to feedback from our community. 

There's a huge difference between spotting an issue and addressing an issue - Obviously after the beta, you guys knew that there was an issue with the engine. Why not explain beforehand the situation? Why were the mods so adamant that if we reported the issues, they would be resolved on release day? Why didnt you just delay the game? The issue with FM is its very difficult to dicipher user error and bugs. But SI have all that information but refuse to share it.

Paul Collyer developed the original Championship Manager, i know.... but he coded 'text' football, which  is competely different from actually seeing the players move on screen. Its like saying Bill Gates still writes code for Microsoft