*Official* Football Manager 2023 Feedback Thread

[themadsheep2001]

28 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

Another point on attributes, remember, they're not 1-20, they're 1-200.

14 vs 15 could be 149 vs 151 

Also this. I've always wondered if it's worth visualising that tbh 

[el_manayer]

20 minutes ago, zindrinho said:

If you've been paying attention to this thread I'm sure you've seen SI answer over and over again that this thread is for feedback, and that the bugtracker is for bug tracking. I too have been paying attention to this thread, and it seems to me most people arent taking in the answers they are given.

If I had a dollar for every time someone here asks "why wont SI say anything about when the new patch will be out"....

And lastly, the loudest noise here is rarely the most agreed with opinions, I think a lot of users here have given up on the noisy gang, its all ruckus and no content. Like it's been said here previously, its hard for SI to fix your feelings of the game, if you want something fixed you need to bring examples and post in the bugtracker. But no one seems interested in doing that, so its hard to take them seriously, or as doing anything other than venting/whining.

When everything is a bug, nothing is a bug. "the well known 2 red cards within 1 minute of every game bug" as it was recently said, most people see that as just venting/whining, while a small group of people agree because its criticism of the game, no matter how valid it may be or not.

I for one am glad SI stated here that they dont necessarily listen to the most noisy crowd but rather the one who brings legitimate claims and back them up with examples. I win too much/ I lose too much/ I dont have enough injuries/ all my players get injured/ my players only get injured when I have important games/ my strikers dont score/ my strikers are the only ones who score.
Just imagine SI adjusting the game for every outburst you see here, or with every outburst that get some upvotes, it'd be a true mess.

Well I have never mentioned bugs. I have never mentioned when people complain that they always lose, or win. Neither the red cards or something like that. Obviously every rant seen here can not be taken into account. What I meant with the loudest noise:

• The loudest noise is that press conferences are boring and excessively long.
• The loudest noise is that set pieces creator is crap.
• The loudest noise is that player interactions are absurd and immersion breaker.
• The loudest noise is that the stadiums look pathetic.
• The loudest noise is that international management is old and obsolete.
• The loudest noise is that the UI is bad, ugly, unintuitive and overly complicated.
• The loudest noise is that many changes made for "immersion reasons" failed in their goal, like the removal of the time bar during matches or the weird arrangement of players during talks.

And yes, I have seen SI answers. Now go and try to find SI commenting about any of the things above, which are indeed the loudest noise since years.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Barmy. Just one Europa League win turned our locker room into paradise apparently.

[Ferocious289]

23 minutes ago, zindrinho said:

If you've been paying attention to this thread I'm sure you've seen SI answer over and over again that this thread is for feedback, and that the bugtracker is for bug tracking. I too have been paying attention to this thread, and it seems to me most people arent taking in the answers they are given.

If I had a dollar for every time someone here asks "why wont SI say anything about when the new patch will be out"....

And lastly, the loudest noise here is rarely the most agreed with opinions, I think a lot of users here have given up on the noisy gang, its all ruckus and no content. Like it's been said here previously, its hard for SI to fix your feelings of the game, if you want something fixed you need to bring examples and post in the bugtracker. But no one seems interested in doing that, so its hard to take them seriously, or as doing anything other than venting/whining.

When everything is a bug, nothing is a bug. "the well known 2 red cards within 1 minute of every game bug" as it was recently said, most people see that as just venting/whining, while a small group of people agree because its criticism of the game, no matter how valid it may be or not.

I for one am glad SI stated here that they dont necessarily listen to the most noisy crowd but rather the one who brings legitimate claims and back them up with examples. I win too much/ I lose too much/ I dont have enough injuries/ all my players get injured/ my players only get injured when I have important games/ my strikers dont score/ my strikers are the only ones who score.
Just imagine SI adjusting the game for every outburst you see here, or with every outburst that get some upvotes, it'd be a true mess.

 

Look in the bug forum and the dates when people uploaded examples and evidence of problems in the game which we're discussing in the feedback thread on the full game. I was the one who commented about red cards within 1 minute of the game and was told to report it or that it's my tactics.

Check out the bug tracker right now and you'll see as far back as mid October where people already uploaded evidence of this problem and up until this day nothing has been done about it. So how can you expect people to be queing up to go out of their way and do more investigation for things which have already been reported and are ''under review/investigation''?

 

[Domoboy23]

11 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

Look in the bug forum and the dates when people uploaded examples and evidence of problems in the game which we're discussing in the feedback thread on the full game. I was the one who commented about red cards within 1 minute of the game and was told to report it or that it's my tactics.

Check out the bug tracker right now and you'll see as far back as mid October where people already uploaded evidence of this problem and up until this day nothing has been done about it. So how can you expect people to be queing up to go out of their way and do more investigation for things which have already been reported and are ''under review/investigation''?

 

Because it isn't a bug.

I've seen 2 red cards in the last 50 games, either for or against.

Just because something is happening in your game, doesn't mean it's happening in everyone's.

 

[zindrinho]

5 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

Check out the bug tracker right now and you'll see as far back as mid October where people already uploaded evidence of this problem and up until this day nothing has been done about it. So how can you expect people to be queing up to go out of their way and do more investigation for things which have already been reported and are ''under review/investigation''?

If people can queue up to complain in this thread, is it really too much to ask that they copy their post and raise it in the bugtracker as well. Your last link there says "need more info". So please, if you have examples of too many red cards, post it there. The rest of us dont see too many red cards so we cant do anything about it.

Who knows, you might be right, there may well be too many red cards with the way you play FM, but the only way to truly find out is by you, the one who experiences this, uploading examples in the bugtracker. Just saying it is so or agreeing with others who says so wont change a thing, you'll just end up looking like a whiner who's not really willing to do anything about it. (no offence meant)

[Ferocious289]

2 minutes ago, zindrinho said:

If people can queue up to complain in this thread, is it really too much to ask that they copy their post and raise it in the bugtracker as well. Your last link there says "need more info". So please, if you have examples of too many red cards, post it there. The rest of us dont see too many red cards so we cant do anything about it.

Who knows, you might be right, there may well be too many red cards with the way you play FM, but the only way to truly find out is by you, the one who experiences this, uploading examples in the bugtracker. Just saying it is so or agreeing with others who says so wont change a thing, you'll just end up looking like a whiner who's not really willing to do anything about it. (no offence meant)

I wasn't really whining about it. I just made a comment on that it's another aspect of the game that's broken as there was a discussion about the m.e being broken and I chimed in to add that red cards were a issue. I'd like to think I'm entitled to have an opinion on a game I purchased without being called  a whiner by those who determined to defend every aspect about the game

 

11 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Because it isn't a bug.

I've seen 2 red cards in the last 50 games, either for or against.

Just because something is happening in your game, doesn't mean it's happening in everyone's.

 

Is if it's not a bug why have SI said they're aware of the issue?

[zeke]

Overall the game is ok. However have to say that the match engine is all over the place. The defensive part is just lottery and in many ways it kills the fun out of the game.

[CaptainKicker]

I really hate that Danish newgens gets outdated names no one is called anymore. I've raised this issue for years and the Danish researcher promised to fix it, yet I still get newgens called "Jan", "Ole" and "Torben", names that under 5 kids got the last 2 years. Super annoying.

[Arnar]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

Another point on attributes, remember, they're not 1-20, they're 1-200.

14 vs 15 could be 149 vs 151 

No they are 1-20.

In your example it would be 14.8 or 15.2, the game rounds i.e 14.6 up to 15.0.

[roykela]

4 minutes ago, Arnar said:

No they are 1-20.

In your example it would be 14.8 or 15.2, the game rounds i.e 14.6 up to 15.0.

What you see is 1-20.
Under the hood the game is using 1-200.

[jere_d]

Defensively the match engine is pretty poor. Players don’t go to the ball properly especially when in the air.

Defenders barely tackle and when they do half the time they then lose the ball again because they just stand still.

I don’t understand what they’re done with offside trap… is that not a thing in football anymore???? Pretty sure I just watched it happen to Argentina.

 

Scouting is pretty poor. Setting assignments should be easier, if you don’t assign scouts personally the same scout gets assigned 🙄.

you can’t see who’s already assigned scouting missions which means you have to keep coming out to see what scouts are available.

scouting knowledge 

this tab is ridiculous no boarder lines when looking at regions, no interaction to see what the countries are, no indication to where the scouting knowledge is from unless you go into the nations tab instead but how are you meant to know what country you’re looking for without an atlas?

 

ummm home advantage appears to be way too OP

ever other sub is struggling to match the pace of the game or nervous to be on the pitch how often does this really happen? Literally makes you wanna not make subs in defence with all the times the defender will give the ball away

 

[zindrinho]

44 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

I wasn't really whining about it. I just made a comment on that it's another aspect of the game that's broken as there was a discussion about the m.e being broken and I chimed in to add that red cards were a issue. I'd like to think I'm entitled to have an opinion on a game I purchased without being called  a whiner by those who determined to defend every aspect about the game

I can't speak for those who you say are determined to defend every aspect of the game, but for me it seems a bit whiney to make 6 posts on the previous page alone about how its all about the game being broken and nothing to do with what you do, demand and expect fixes yet still not a single post in the bugtracker as you were told to do if you wanted to see any changes being made.

I'm just really glad that SI decide to make changes based on what people report in the bug tracker with examples, and not what people just complain about here, no matter how many upvotes they get. We dont have to agree, its just my 2 cents.

[Arnar]

5 minutes ago, roykela said:

What you see is 1-20.
Under the hood the game is using 1-200.

no it is absolutly 1-20.

Go into the editor, pick a random player, go to player data, pick any one of technical, mental or physical, i.e Fati has anticipation of 14, type in 140, see what happens. It changes his anticipation to 20.

[fc.cadoni]

13 minutes ago, Arnar said:

No they are 1-20.

In your example it would be 14.8 or 15.2, the game rounds i.e 14.6 up to 15.0.

@roykela and @Johnny Ace is right. What you see is 1-20 while under-the-hood is 1-200.

[Arnar]

2 minutes ago, fc.cadoni said:

@roykela and @Johnny Ace is right. What you see is 1-20 while under-the-hood is 1-200.

Got any proof for it?

[fc.cadoni]

Just now, Arnar said:

Got any proof for it?

It has been said multiple times on this forum by researches. Pre-Game Editor is the tool for the public. 

[Domoboy23]

Is there a way to sort it so that the unselected players are filtered by position?

So starting 11 and bench by position chosen then the unselected GK,DEF,MID,ST etc? It was happening at my previous club but now it isn't

[david_kax]

hace 1 hora, zindrinho dijo:

I can't speak for those who you say are determined to defend every aspect of the game, but for me it seems a bit whiney to make 6 posts on the previous page alone about how its all about the game being broken and nothing to do with what you do, demand and expect fixes yet still not a single post in the bugtracker as you were told to do if you wanted to see any changes being made.

I'm just really glad that SI decide to make changes based on what people report in the bug tracker with examples, and not what people just complain about here, no matter how many upvotes they get. We dont have to agree, its just my 2 cents.

I'm not saying it because of this issue... But in the Bug Tracker there are dozens of issues reported with pkm since October and everything is "Under Review"... Other years they recognized Known issues much more quickly.

We can't criticize people for not reporting on the Bug Tracker when they're doing it and there's no response.

We are at the end of November... It is supposed that around the second week of December there will be a major update. And Si still haven't identified the Known issues? How are they going to solve the problems in time if by now they haven't identified them? Do they know about the problems and do not communicate them? I don't know exactly what is happening but this year the communication in the Bug Tracker can be greatly improved. All is "Under Review"...

[pow4h]

1 hour ago, Arnar said:

Got any proof for it?

For example - charts with progress of atributes training.

There are few steps on chart between every point of attribute. If it was only 1-20 there would be only one step and constant change from one point to another.

 

[XaW]

2 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

I wasn't really whining about it. I just made a comment on that it's another aspect of the game that's broken as there was a discussion about the m.e being broken and I chimed in to add that red cards were a issue. I'd like to think I'm entitled to have an opinion on a game I purchased without being called  a whiner by those who determined to defend every aspect about the game

You do know your opinion would carry a lot more weight if you had reported issues if you have given evidence for your comments in here. I had a look and you currently have a grand total of 0 bug reports for FM. Sure, you are not obliged in any way to report issues you have with the game, but unsubstantiated claims tend to have less impact than actual evidence. I mean, if you actually want to see the change you are after, spending half the time you have here in the thread making various opinions to actually report issues in the bug tracker with examples, it would be much more productive for everyone.

[The3points]

One thing I'm a little frustrated with is the lack on change in terms of tactics and micromanagement with defensive shape and pressing situations. OIs and PIs are a little simple in terms of getting specific movements and man-marking often leads you quite understaffed. That with the fact that fullbacks refuse to press means that it is very hard to restrict opposition build up play

[greenz81]

SI, please utilise the beta branch... at least let us see the UI/Graphics fixes until the match engine gets updated. Or even a version of the match engine included to see what level you are working on at the moment

[zindrinho]

2 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

Is there a way to sort it so that the unselected players are filtered by position?

So starting 11 and bench by position chosen then the unselected GK,DEF,MID,ST etc? It was happening at my previous club but now it isn't

ugh, that one's a drag, its in the in-game tips if you can find them, I dont remember the correct order but hold Shift while pressing P/R/D, Position and then one last row, try playing around with the order you click while holding shift.

That, and how to make your reserves/u19 teams use the same tactic as your senior team AFTER you've manually changed their tactics once... gah I hate when it happens in a save!

[XaW]

2 hours ago, Domoboy23 said:

Is there a way to sort it so that the unselected players are filtered by position?

So starting 11 and bench by position chosen then the unselected GK,DEF,MID,ST etc? It was happening at my previous club but now it isn't

After clicking on the initial column to sort by it, SHIFT-click on another column allows 2nd sorting. It will show as two triangles for 2nd sort:

Here I have it sorted by "Position selected", then by "Position".

[jeru]

20 minutes ago, XaW said:

After clicking on the initial column to sort by it, SHIFT-click on another column allows 2nd sorting. It will show as two triangles for 2nd sort:

Here I have it sorted by "Position

1 hour ago, XaW said:

You do know your opinion would carry a lot more weight if you had reported issues if you have given evidence for your comments in here. I had a look and you currently have a grand total of 0 bug reports for FM. Sure, you are not obliged in any way to report issues you have with the game, but unsubstantiated claims tend to have less impact than actual evidence. I mean, if you actually want to see the change you are after, spending half the time you have here in the thread making various opinions to actually report issues in the bug tracker with examples, it would be much more productive for everyone.

selected", then by "Position".

@XaW not sure why you are spending your time checking to see how many bugs that paying customers who have spent their money on a product have posted in the bug forum, not sure that’s how “moderation” works. 
 

In fact all The mods on this thread seem to feel that users are not entitled to air their views - on a feedback thread no less - unless they have acted as unpaid beta testers and logged bugs.
 
The facts are many bugs were logged within the first few days of the beta and zero have been fixed and pushed to production, and we are still playing the beta ME.  

Further more given how few match engine updates are actually released each year the likelyhood is anything logged now will maybe not even get looked at for FM23, lat few years there have been no ME updates in March……. 

[XaW]

8 minutes ago, jeru said:

@XaW not sure why you are spending your time checking to see how many bugs that paying customers who have spent their money on a product have posted in the bug forum, not sure that’s how “moderation” works. 

In fact all The mods on this thread seem to feel that users are not entitled to air their views - on a feedback thread no less - unless they have acted as unpaid beta testers and logged bugs.

I don't spend time doing that, except when I see people reporting bugs in here. I initially point them towards the bug tracker and advise that bugs will be looked at there. This is more a place for a general overview of feedback, as outlined in the original post, unfortunately, not everyone reads it, so we mods do our jobs by pointing people there. If some users do make a lot of noise, I will check their bugs, perhaps I can add things, perhaps I can help them mitigate their issue in one way or another, something along those lines. It's not really a hard thing, you can go into my profile and see my reported bugs with 3 clicks. In fact this is EXACTLY how moderating works. My job here is not just to remove spam or move threads posted wrongly, it's also to help out other users and let them know how this forum works, and how they use it is most helpful to everyone.

If you think we mods are removing critique or complaints about the game, then you need to open your eyes to what several of us has written in here. I posted a long post about how I think the Squad Planner is not sufficiently setup for it to be used well. Others have given clear feedback on how they feel parts of the game are lacking in many ways. I am, and always has, encouraging people to try the demo before buying if they are unsure, give their view on the game in here, and come with constructive criticism for any feature they think is not up to scrutiny. Posting bugs is the best way to get issues fixed, complaining here is not.

I don't really understand what your post is or has to do with the thread at all. If you have complaints of how I, or any other mod, handle themselves at this forum, there is a "contact us" link at the bottom of the page where you can come in contact with SI and complain if you'd like.

If you want to continue this discussion feel free to PM me, since this is not something to be had in this thread. Otherwise, I wish you a good day.

[Arnar]

2 hours ago, pow4h said:

For example - charts with progress of atributes training.

There are few steps on chart between every point of attribute. If it was only 1-20 there would be only one step and constant change from one point to another.

 

Decimal points exist, and you could see it on player development screen but it was removed in fm20. 

[jeru]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

You do know your opinion would carry a lot more weight if you had reported issues if you have given evidence for your comments in here. I had a look and you currently have a grand total of 0 bug reports for FM. Sure, you are not obliged in any way to report issues you have with the game, but unsubstantiated claims tend to have less impact than actual evidence. I mean, if you actually want to see the change you are after, spending half the time you have here in the thread making various opinions to actually report issues in the bug tracker with examples, it would be much more productive for everyone.

 

1 hour ago, XaW said:

I don't spend time doing that, except when I see people reporting bugs in here. I initially point them towards the bug tracker and advise that bugs will be looked at there. This is more a place for a general overview of feedback, as outlined in the original post, unfortunately, not everyone reads it, so we mods do our jobs by pointing people there. If some users do make a lot of noise, I will check their bugs, perhaps I can add things, perhaps I can help them mitigate their issue in one way or another, something along those lines. It's not really a hard thing, you can go into my profile and see my reported bugs with 3 clicks. In fact this is EXACTLY how moderating works. My job here is not just to remove spam or move threads posted wrongly, it's also to help out other users and let them know how this forum works, and how they use it is most helpful to everyone.

If you think we mods are removing critique or complaints about the game, then you need to open your eyes to what several of us has written in here. I posted a long post about how I think the Squad Planner is not sufficiently setup for it to be used well. Others have given clear feedback on how they feel parts of the game are lacking in many ways. I am, and always has, encouraging people to try the demo before buying if they are unsure, give their view on the game in here, and come with constructive criticism for any feature they think is not up to scrutiny. Posting bugs is the best way to get issues fixed, complaining here is not.

I don't really understand what your post is or has to do with the thread at all. If you have complaints of how I, or any other mod, handle themselves at this forum, there is a "contact us" link at the bottom of the page where you can come in contact with SI and complain if you'd like.

If you want to continue this discussion feel free to PM me, since this is not something to be had in this thread. Otherwise, I wish you a good day.

The guy never reported a bug in here, he expressed his opinion on a game he has bought, you didn't agree with it and went off to the bug forum to check if he had posted bugs - you even posted here saying that is what you did, you were not "helping him" you were simply shouting him down, it is as simple as that.

Then you also reply to me with passive aggressive and I quote "If you think we mods are removing critique or complaints about the game, then you need to open your eyes to what several of us has written in here" - I didn't question you removing anything, you made all that up and why do I care to open my eyes to what you have said, I couldn't care less what you have written in here except to the entitled opinion you have that nobody is allowed a view unless they have posted in the bug forum, that's my point, my single point and my only point - maybe as a moderator you should read posts more clearly. 

[EdL]

4 hours ago, Arnar said:

Got any proof for it?

I think they are stored 1-100 under the hood and then scaled to 1-20 for display

[b2khn]

It is true; 1-200 and there is rounding.

136 is displayed as 14. 

134 is displayed as 13.

In earlier Editions you could see the last diggit as a diggit. 136 was 13.6 if you hovered over. (Fm18 last?)

[Arnar]

1 hour ago, EdL said:

I think they are stored 1-100 under the hood and then scaled to 1-20 for display

Ok seems strange but i stand corrected. 

[Ferocious289]

6 hours ago, XaW said:

You do know your opinion would carry a lot more weight if you had reported issues if you have given evidence for your comments in here. I had a look and you currently have a grand total of 0 bug reports for FM. Sure, you are not obliged in any way to report issues you have with the game, but unsubstantiated claims tend to have less impact than actual evidence. I mean, if you actually want to see the change you are after, spending half the time you have here in the thread making various opinions to actually report issues in the bug tracker with examples, it would be much more productive for everyone.

I uploaded my save in one of the reported bug threads regarding difficulty signing youth players during the beta when no one else did. I found out at full release the issue remains along with many other bigger issues remaining the same to my dismay. So forgive me if my confidence in reporting bugs and expecting them to be resolved is at an all time low when I've already seen a host of reports flaged up from mid october and we're now at the end of november and still see them as features in the full game near the end of november.

I personally and this is just my opinion, think that it would be far more productive if hotfixes were added to at least 2-3 arguably gamebreaking imersion bugs which were hugely reported from near day 1 of the beta were fixed or addressed at full release. Unfortunately only gk animations were addressed(which wasn't what many had huge problems with) which plummetted any desire and confidence for me and many others  going to the trouble of uploading saves, pkms etc in the hope they will be seriously looked at and addressed. Oh and the techincal youth player bug because youtubers kicked up a storm about it.

It's give and take 2 way street here. You can't expect customers to go to the trouble of testing things to reproduce obvious errors in the game, then not be given the courtesy of a change log at full release and then expect them to continue testing and reporting when they find out there is no fruition to their endeavours.

 

[Ferocious289]

8 hours ago, zindrinho said:

I can't speak for those who you say are determined to defend every aspect of the game, but for me it seems a bit whiney to make 6 posts on the previous page alone about how its all about the game being broken and nothing to do with what you do, demand and expect fixes yet still not a single post in the bugtracker as you were told to do if you wanted to see any changes being made.

I'm just really glad that SI decide to make changes based on what people report in the bug tracker with examples, and not what people just complain about here, no matter how many upvotes they get. We dont have to agree, its just my 2 cents.

What changes have they made in response to the people who reported bugs? List them all please because I'm struggling to find them all.

[Caletti]

7 hours ago, greenz81 said:

SI, please utilise the beta branch... at least let us see the UI/Graphics fixes until the match engine gets updated. Or even a version of the match engine included to see what level you are working on at the moment

SI doesn't care about us. Since October 8 there is silence from them. They could at least tell us what stage the work is at. I don't know if I've seen worse communication with players anywhere.

[HUNT3R]

9 minutes ago, Caletti said:

SI doesn't care about us. Since October 8 there is silence from them. They could at least tell us what stage the work is at. I don't know if I've seen worse communication with players anywhere.

Neil (who has been off sick recently) posted this a week ago, so 19 November:

 

[Style]

 

As i know SI staff working a full-time job, and their only game live now is FM 23 - so why we need to wait so much time for fix that CRUCIAL bugs ? 

This year's title release is mark of disgrace for that company. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Style

[Caletti]

1 hour ago, HUNT3R said:

Neil (who has been off sick recently) posted this a week ago, so 19 November:

 

I'm sorry but I don't see an answer there at what stage the work is and what exactly they are looking at.

[XaW]

6 hours ago, jeru said:

The guy never reported a bug in here, he expressed his opinion on a game he has bought, you didn't agree with it and went off to the bug forum to check if he had posted bugs - you even posted here saying that is what you did, you were not "helping him" you were simply shouting him down, it is as simple as that.

Then you also reply to me with passive aggressive and I quote "If you think we mods are removing critique or complaints about the game, then you need to open your eyes to what several of us has written in here" - I didn't question you removing anything, you made all that up and why do I care to open my eyes to what you have said, I couldn't care less what you have written in here except to the entitled opinion you have that nobody is allowed a view unless they have posted in the bug forum, that's my point, my single point and my only point - maybe as a moderator you should read posts more clearly. 

As I said before, please send me a PM so we can discuss the role of the moderator. This is not the place to discuss it.

3 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

I uploaded my save in one of the reported bug threads regarding difficulty signing youth players during the beta when no one else did. I found out at full release the issue remains along with many other bigger issues remaining the same to my dismay. So forgive me if my confidence in reporting bugs and expecting them to be resolved is at an all time low when I've already seen a host of reports flaged up from mid october and we're now at the end of november and still see them as features in the full game near the end of november.

I personally and this is just my opinion, think that it would be far more productive if hotfixes were added to at least 2-3 arguably gamebreaking imersion bugs which were hugely reported from near day 1 of the beta were fixed or addressed at full release. Unfortunately only gk animations were addressed(which wasn't what many had huge problems with) which plummetted any desire and confidence for me and many others  going to the trouble of uploading saves, pkms etc in the hope they will be seriously looked at and addressed. Oh and the techincal youth player bug because youtubers kicked up a storm about it.

It's give and take 2 way street here. You can't expect customers to go to the trouble of testing things to reproduce obvious errors in the game, then not be given the courtesy of a change log at full release and then expect them to continue testing and reporting when they find out there is no fruition to their endeavours.

You know what? I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here. I also think SI should provide more updates to the game. This is not something we disagree on. And as I said, I don't think users should be expect to report bugs if they don't wish to spend their time doing so, I'm am, however, saying that spending time doing that rather than posting in here regarding bugs would be more beneficial to everyone. Just for info, the technical was a know issue and worked on before any youtuber kicked up a fuzz.

I've said in here before I think SI should change how they handle information out to their customers, as I think think things are not visible enough for most people. Roadmaps, broad plans, etc, are things I wish was more available to everyone. While I understand SI's reasoning for not doing it (giving an unsure timeline also has negative consequences if it can't be reached for a myriad of reason), I do hope they will look at ways to improve in the future. There has been a change towards the positive there with the bug tracker and the public statuses of bugs, but I still think they have a way to go before it's as transparent as I would like. This is my personal opinion of how things are run, since, and I have to add this again, I'm not employed by SI, nor am I told to walk any company line for how they do stuff. What I am trying to do however, is helping people report issues they have in the right place so it's visible to the right people at SI to maximize the possibility that issues can be caught and fixed, as well as making sure people follow the forum rules. Being critical of the game is very much not against any forum rules, but there is a difference in someone saying "I don't like X feature because Y reason" and others calling the devs lazy or much worse. The first I applaud, the 2nd I have to react to.

So even if we both think SI can communicate better, I stand by my last post to you. Reporting issues in the bug tracker is the best way to get your issues looked at and hopefully resolved.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Style said:

 

As i know SI staff working a full-time job, and their only game live now is FM 23 - so why we need to wait so much time for fix that CRUCIAL bugs ? 

This year's title release is mark of disgrace for that company. 

We got a mini update for Steven Gerrard leaving Aston Villa, almost within 24 hours of it happening, yet over a month since the beta dropped we still dont have VAR in Scottish football despite it being reported, acknowledged, and reportedly just needing a box ticked.

This is what bugs (HA!) me the most about things this year. ME updates take a long time, and i fully accept that, but whats stopping hotfixes coming out to resolve simple immersion breaking bugs a month after theyve been reported?

[shirajzl]

20 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

I think the worst thing is that player attritbutes don't really translate all that well to the match engine anymore along with player traits and player instructions that you set outdoes not play out on the field. Or simply  the m.e does not manage to translate and represent it as well as it should. For example you can put shoot less often for your midfielders wingbacks and central defenders,, yet they will still persistently shoot from ridiculous angles when there are players ahead of them in better opening positions, or refuse to put in a cross when on the flanks even if you got them set to cross more often. Wingers with good crossing attributes and decision making will still consistently run into the box from the wing, and a player is free in the penalty box, and the winger decides to shoot straight into the side netting or cuts it back and passes it back to a player outside the box.

It's a long standing problem of the franchise, you need to understand the ME and its workings, not football tactics as such (although it does help, of course). FOR YEARS I've been reading on these forums the same things like "I told my midfielder to shoot less, but he keeps doing it even though he has passing options". That's because people follow RL logic and miss the inner workings of the ME. It's a huge problem that I can't see being solved.

18 hours ago, GunmaN1905 said:

Going player for player against top clubs and creating some imaginary lineups, I've maybe got two to three top quality players, but still somehow dominate teams with stacked squads and they can't exploit high line or high press at all.
Among all the pretty much bloatware as others said, the game has become a complete joke from tactical standpoint.

 

The underlying fact of this game is that if you've got your tactics spot on, almost none of the other stuff matters (attributes, morale, player interactions). It ties into what I said above, if you know the ME inside and out (which the best FM tacticians do, and I don't mean those who make expoit tactics), you're practically invincible in the long term.

[themadsheep2001]

Been making emulation tactics for about 10 years now, knowing football has always been more important than "knowing the ME". The thing is not everyone actually knows football as well as they think they do. The number of tactical issues because people don't create passing options or can't unlock defensive sides because they aren't shifting the defence round or creating overloads or manipulating space, or getting lots of touches in the golden zone... Or defensively not trying to funnel play from weaker areas, not creating pressing traps etc has always been quite high. This stuff matters more than the ME, because as the game evolves so does the match engine, but if you understand that you can create tactics regardless of what match engine you're playing on. 

The best tacticians will rarely talk about the ME because it's not particularly relevant to understanding building tactics unless you're trying to exploit or min/max

[shirajzl]

The point is that if you do know the ME, it will be sufficient to win consistently, even without any exploits. Actual football knowledge is irrelevant once you truly understand the ME.

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

The point is that if you do know the ME, it will be sufficient to win consistently, even without any exploits. Actual football knowledge is irrelevant once you truly understand the ME.

The ME constantly changes, it can change within one release of FM let alone between releases, so that isn't really consistently true, and much harder to do than simply learning to understanding football.

Understanding the ME is irrelevant if you truly understand football, because the latter will carry through releases 

[XaW]

17 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

The point is that if you do know the ME, it will be sufficient to win consistently, even without any exploits. Actual football knowledge is irrelevant once you truly understand the ME.

Sound fotballing concepts will win in the long run though. I've been using almost the exact same tactic since FM17, only made some small tweaks here and there to fit the players I have, but the base is the same. It has worked good through each and every match engine instance since I created it back then. That has nothing to do with understanding or knowing the ME, it's to do with creating a tactic that is cohesive and with a plan through and through. Trying to fit a tactic into what the ME does will mean it works wonders now, but will bomb after any update, in the same way the exploit tactics does. Creating something that works no matter the me requires football knowledge.

[Ferocious289]

2 hours ago, XaW said:

As I said before, please send me a PM so we can discuss the role of the moderator. This is not the place to discuss it.

You know what? I don't disagree with a lot of what you say here. I also think SI should provide more updates to the game. This is not something we disagree on. And as I said, I don't think users should be expect to report bugs if they don't wish to spend their time doing so, I'm am, however, saying that spending time doing that rather than posting in here regarding bugs would be more beneficial to everyone. Just for info, the technical was a know issue and worked on before any youtuber kicked up a fuzz.

I've said in here before I think SI should change how they handle information out to their customers, as I think think things are not visible enough for most people. Roadmaps, broad plans, etc, are things I wish was more available to everyone. While I understand SI's reasoning for not doing it (giving an unsure timeline also has negative consequences if it can't be reached for a myriad of reason), I do hope they will look at ways to improve in the future. There has been a change towards the positive there with the bug tracker and the public statuses of bugs, but I still think they have a way to go before it's as transparent as I would like. This is my personal opinion of how things are run, since, and I have to add this again, I'm not employed by SI, nor am I told to walk any company line for how they do stuff. What I am trying to do however, is helping people report issues they have in the right place so it's visible to the right people at SI to maximize the possibility that issues can be caught and fixed, as well as making sure people follow the forum rules. Being critical of the game is very much not against any forum rules, but there is a difference in someone saying "I don't like X feature because Y reason" and others calling the devs lazy or much worse. The first I applaud, the 2nd I have to react to.

So even if we both think SI can communicate better, I stand by my last post to you. Reporting issues in the bug tracker is the best way to get your issues looked at and hopefully resolved.

I appreciate your honesty and respect your opinion, and glad you agree communication should be better. However considering how things have played out I don't think it's fair to expect people giving feedback in the feedback thread, to report every issue they bring up, considering we're told SI look over this thread to look over common issues. Like I said before I was just sharing my  experience on the game with other users and feel I as though I explained the problems in detail and do my best to word it in a respect way. So I dont think it's fair to put me in the bracket of those who have called devs lazy. I'd love nothing more to be praising the game and SI's work, but when I'm finding  big obvious problems which kind of ruin the experience of gaming, it's hard for me to give praise

Hand on heart, I seriously don't expect if I report a bug for it to be given any serious priority and fixed before the next update as evidence shows that as users were asked to report bugs during beta and wait for full release to judge the game when the complained and nothing was done, we just got a message from SI that they're happy with the game and it will take longer to fix M.E issues though somehow  managed to find the time and technology to tweak goalkeepers.

If I go to the trouble of breaking down all the issues in the game piece by piece, by playing out a save, doing  screenshot after screenshot, doing vidoe recordings of obvious footage of broken issues in the M.E, poor transfer ai, illogical player interaction, we're talking hours of testing only for it not to be fixed it will just fester frustration and resentment which isn't healthy for anyone

Besides realistically I don't think SI will be able to fix them until the game cycle is finished considerng they only do 3 updates right. And some people have said long standing bugs in previous editions are still to this day not addressed. If at least 2-3 bugs were addressed from the beta to for full release then it would be a different story and would have reinstilled confidence in customers reproducing errors and reporting it in the game. However I look at the bug tracker and see the compliaints still lingering from a month ago and not a single of one of them from micro to macro have been fixed

[shirajzl]

12 minutes ago, XaW said:

Sound fotballing concepts will win in the long run though. I've been using almost the exact same tactic since FM17, only made some small tweaks here and there to fit the players I have, but the base is the same. It has worked good through each and every match engine instance since I created it back then. That has nothing to do with understanding or knowing the ME, it's to do with creating a tactic that is cohesive and with a plan through and through. Trying to fit a tactic into what the ME does will mean it works wonders now, but will bomb after any update, in the same way the exploit tactics does. Creating something that works no matter the me requires football knowledge.

Again, having football knowledge is fine, but if you know the ME, you'll easily spot the changes from one version to the other, adapt and continue to dominate.

[XaW]

34 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

I appreciate your honesty and respect your opinion, and glad you agree communication should be better. However considering how things have played out I don't think it's fair to expect people giving feedback in the feedback thread, to report every issue they bring up, considering we're told SI look over this thread to look over common issues. Like I said before I was just sharing my  experience on the game with other users and feel I as though I explained the problems in detail and do my best to word it in a respect way. So I dont think it's fair to put me in the bracket of those who have called devs lazy. I'd love nothing more to be praising the game and SI's work, but when I'm finding  big obvious problems which kind of ruin the experience of gaming, it's hard for me to give praise

Just to be clear, I haven't said that you said that about others, it was more to put emphasis on it. And I don't think you should praise SI or the game if you don't enjoy it. What I hope you will do more of, is give honest feedback, but in a more constructive matter than you have done so far. This thread is for what you like and dislike, and there is no need to report bugs as dislike because everyone dislikes bugs, if you get my meaning here. You obviously care about the game, so I hope you can give more constructive feedback as to HOW you'd want the game to change, and not just "fix bugs", but more in a functionality mindset.

34 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

Hand on heart, I seriously don't expect if I report a bug for it to be given any serious priority and fixed before the next update as evidence shows that as users were asked to report bugs during beta and wait for full release to judge the game when the complained and nothing was done, we just got a message from SI that they're happy with the game and it will take longer to fix M.E issues though somehow  managed to find the time and technology to tweak goalkeepers.

It might not, but then again NOT posting it more or less guarantees it wont be fixed... SI said they won't release a fix until they are happy with the changes, and I think that's a good idea in general. I think pushing out half baked, band-aid type fixes is not a good strategy, but I also want them to respond to issues quicker.

34 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

If I go to the trouble of breaking down all the issues in the game piece by piece, by playing out a save, doing  screenshot after screenshot, doing vidoe recordings of obvious footage of broken issues in the M.E, poor transfer ai, illogical player interaction, we're talking hours of testing only for it not to be fixed it will just fester frustration and resentment which isn't healthy for anyone

Besides realistically I don't think SI will be able to fix them until the game cycle is finished considerng they only do 3 updates right. And some people have said long standing bugs in previous editions are still to this day not addressed. If at least 2-3 bugs were addressed from the beta to for full release then it would be a different story and would have reinstilled confidence in customers reproducing errors and reporting it in the game. However I look at the bug tracker and see the compliaints still lingering from a month ago and not a single of one of them from micro to macro have been fixed

Some times, things don't get fixed. Why? I don't know how well people know software development, but i can with experience say that things that seems like small issues can be really hard to fix. Often you have to prioritize where you spend your resources. Is spending a weeks development time to fix a small issue that has little impact worth it? Usually not. I can say for sure that things I've reported before has been fixed, but I've also reported minor issues that are still in the game today. And this goes for ACTUAL factual issues, not those types that can be vague like things in the match engine, those are often even harder to pinpoint.

It's not surprising things are still reported when SI haven't updated the game in a while. I expect that whenever the next update comes along, a lot of stuff will be mended, but of course some might not be fixed, that's the nature of development.

[XaW]

5 minutes ago, shirajzl said:

Again, having football knowledge is fine, but if you know the ME, you'll easily spot the changes from one version to the other, adapt and continue to dominate.

Yes, you can, but to know the ME you need to spend a lot of time understanding the limits and how to push them. Then you are more going towards the "exploit tactics", rather than football tactics in my view. I spend a lot of time creating my first tactic, and I didn't even touch the game until I had decided what I wanted it to do. Then it was tweaking it and asking for suggestions as I did in the thread. And now it works well enough every version. Of course, exploit tactics work better, but they crash for every ME-update...

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, XaW said:

Yes, you can, but to know the ME you need to spend a lot of time understanding the limits and how to push them. Then you are more going towards the "exploit tactics", rather than football tactics in my view. I spend a lot of time creating my first tactic, and I didn't even touch the game until I had decided what I wanted it to do. Then it was tweaking it and asking for suggestions as I did in the thread. And now it works well enough every version. Of course, exploit tactics work better, but they crash for every ME-update...

This. And the best tacticians would tell every single person here: don't bother trying to learn the ME: it's counterproductive and and a waste of your time. I remember Cleon mentioning that to me back in FM09 when we still worked in sliders