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Jogo Bonito - "Beautiful Game": Guide to Playing 4-2-3-1 Like a Brazilian (Updated on Jan 15, 2024)


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18 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

@sugarbear0511 @jdubsnz Nice results with both Newcastle and Arsenal! Good to see that this tactic applies well in a more physical league like Premiership. I have only tested it in the more technical Portugal so far (up to Jan 2023 so far) so thanks for extending testing into other leagues guys. 

I have only made minor tweaks to the tactic so far. I find its best not to make big changes when you are doing well. We were a little disappointing in Europe (as I mentioned earlier) but then we faced tougher opposition there. Overall, I am still very happy with it. Especially how my players are performing. My faves so far have been the Shadow Striker (not surprising), Treq and Complete Forward.

Pedro G., the Shadow Striker, has been phenomenal. Scored 15 goals in 18 games. Not bad for a player who starts every game in AMC position. 

9C56FEAD9D00B13B0C45725D392D378A5DDBDE04 (1600×900)

I am trying to enjoy him while I can because his success has made him reluctant to resign his contract. But at least we have until 2026 to find a replacement for him. Unless someone triggers his £70 million release clause that is.

Then Marcus, the Trequartista, has also been a revelation as a very creative role on the wing. 11 assists in 18 games so far. 

Speaking of my Complete Forward. Francisco Trincao has been very good on support duty in that role. He is actually my 2nd top goalscorer (with 10 goals). I am not sure whether it is due to his attribute combination or the individual traits ("shoots from distance" combined with good long shots attribute). He does score a few scorchers from outside the penalty area from time to time. But he is not amazing. And his attributes are definitely not as good as Gabriel Jesus. So maybe its something about Jesus' traits or other players around him? 

I have not really tested DLF(A) that much because Paulinho is my player for that role but he is more of sub to our #1 choice Trincao.

 

180DB8CFE0C6178C5633B7F3CC1529D4C3047498 (1600×900)

And this is what my tactic looks like on Jan 1, 2023. A few tweaks but mostly the same. I made some changes to our pressing instructions which you could see in the download below.

6E7D1F4BB177C66CF968CA0C8E7E3ABE7193701C (1600×900)

Brazilian.fmf 45.35 kB · 32 downloads

We remain undefeated in the league. I hope we can maintain that throughout 2023 as I have never had an undefeated season in any FM game to date. Being out of the Cup competition will hopefully help us in that respect. It was never a priority but drained our fitness levels nevertheless. Will be interesting to test the tactic in Europa League though. 

8003E8E2F0673B7DDF98567909452D5AC2BEA305 (1600×900)

 

@sugarbear0511 This is my experimental 3-4-2-1 formation. Only used it for a handfull of games so far, as I am a little wary to switch to a tactic that my team is not familiar with. Even for AWAY games I tend to do well with my original 4-2-3-1. But you are welcome to try it out. Might fit your team better. Download: 3-4-2-1.fmf

ECB46E6EC2E505C2EF2A73F873E8554203E62311 (1600×900)

@jdubsnz Magic Box is a great tactic! In fact my narrow 3-4-2-1 was somewhat inspired by it. At least the way Scolari played it at 2002 World Cup.

so I'm finding switching the striker to an AF is getting better returns, although just lost to Atletico Madrid and Wolves.  Both teams completely overpowered us.  In the Wolves game I think we had 1 shot in the first half.  Finding this with the tactic in that sometimes it is just toothless and not sure why - we either play lovely football or are just pants.  Might be playing against 3 at the back?  It's why I'm looking at an alternative tactic to throw on if this is happening.  This is my magic box attempt - plays quite nice and offers something different, although far from finished.  @crusadertsarapart from your 3 at the back, what do you do to switch it up?

1437838298_Screenshot(3).thumb.png.a21a23206c5635aacc6677ec4d81eef6.png

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Am 10.11.2022 um 04:23 schrieb crusadertsar:

So if your team fits the Jogo Bonito template, then the next step is deciding on the formation shape. This choice is not as important as having the right players for the style. Usually, going with any formation that grants an advantage in the midfield is a good idea. Thus both 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 are a good choice. They offer a good balance of defence and attack, wide and central attack. And they are both fit teams looking for progressive possession (due to staggered role distribution). Usually teams that have players for one formation will also be suitable for the other. Shadow striker can easily be turned into an attacking central midfielder (ala Lampard). When managing a strong team, I tend to train both formations, and mostly use 4-2-3-1 as my go-to attacking tactic against weaker opposition. Then the more defensive 4-3-3 - for tougher away games and Champions League opponents.

Heaven @crusadertsar you are gifted with presenting one excellent read after the next. I’d followed your lead many times and this time as well. Especially amazing is the historical context you create which is always an opportunity to learn. Thank you!

In my (FM20) 1860 Munich journey I’d implemented many ideas of your pragmatic football and had to tweak and adopt it to a side like underdog 1860. This season all parts seem to fall in place and gave me an exciting pass and move football I’d never seen before from one of my sides. I am sure, that accidentally much of your work here is recognised: just look at the formation

IWa PFa IWs

  APs BWMs

       HBd

FBs CDd CDd FBa

        SKs

Imagine the PFa as a DLFa and the BWMs role being sustained by a playmaker with PPMs like dictates tempo killer passes and comes deep.

often the HB is short above the midline, my BWM and AP orchestrating the three attacking roles - becoming four when the FBa arrives up front, with the AP going up front a lot more into a role like your Pele Player. And it’s constantly pass and move. Quick build up from the back short crisp passes, higher tempo higher DL and no junk.

key was imagining my two wide IW (stay wider) as Graelish and Foden. Unfortunately my PFa is not a good passer/ mover but more physical strong and tough working, my AP lacks speed. Though I need to stick with the poor man’s approach of your tactic.

It’s 2nd Bundesliga, it’s 1860 and it’s beautiful. 

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On 19/11/2022 at 02:43, jondragonborn said:

Very nice thread, @crusadertsar! Thanks for sharing.

As a Brazilian myself, I always had the idea that Rivelino kind of played in a Wide Playmaker on Attack. I mean, more or less. Thats one of the kind of role thats purely regional and FM cant quite work with right now. In my view (I'm not representing the country in anyway), I always saw Rivelino as a "meia esquerda", a kind of playmaker in the left that didnt went wide and neither occupy the Zone 14.

In defense, that role would try to "close in" either in the flanks or the half space, if necessary. That role kind of start out wide, but went inside, however, can also make the reverse movement in the middle of the game. Try to imagine a son between the Carrillero and the Wide Playmaker. Thats how I see it, at least.

The last player that interpreted that role very well was Ricardinho at the 2002 Corinthians team. Parreira (who won the World Cup in 94) set up the team in a unconventional way, setting up a very strong flank game. By the left, the team had the "meia esquerda", a natural born left-footed winger (Gil) and a bombing Wing Back (Kleber). The three were super technical players and made a very strong overload by that side. Corinthians went to win the regional championship and the Brazilian Cup that year, besides being runner-up in the National League (losing to a Santos side with "only" Robinho, Diego Ribas and Elano).

So, I believe is worth trying the Wide Playmaker on Attack sometimes. Maybe that could give you a spice. However, I dont know how that would work with the Shadow Striker...

The wide playmaker duty really intrigues me and i must agree that is how i see the Great Rivelino role but getting that role to work in fm i have found very difficult. @crusadertsarwhat do you think about this also great work you always make me fall in love with fm with your threads thank you. 

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15 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

That's really cool. Yup, looks like 4-2-3-1! Thanks for sharing :)

I'm just amazed they were even collecting this kind of data back then.

I think all the data was retroactive: FIFA recently released match recordings from 1970 on for free on FIFA+ and Opta I guess just went through them.

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21 hours ago, jdubsnz said:

so I'm finding switching the striker to an AF is getting better returns, although just lost to Atletico Madrid and Wolves.  Both teams completely overpowered us.  In the Wolves game I think we had 1 shot in the first half.  Finding this with the tactic in that sometimes it is just toothless and not sure why - we either play lovely football or are just pants.  Might be playing against 3 at the back?  It's why I'm looking at an alternative tactic to throw on if this is happening.  This is my magic box attempt - plays quite nice and offers something different, although far from finished.  @crusadertsarapart from your 3 at the back, what do you do to switch it up?

1437838298_Screenshot(3).thumb.png.a21a23206c5635aacc6677ec4d81eef6.png

Nice tactic @jdubsnz! I don't really have another tactic for those kinds of situations. I just change up some of the roles like switch CF to attack duty or make my left wingback more attacking. More risk more reward kind of thing.

@HanziZoloman that's very impressive, creating quick pass and move football in lower league. And I really like your choice of roles. Halfback is becoming a constant in many of my tactics. Such a useful role. Keep it up mate! And thanks for the kind words.

Edited by crusadertsar
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13 hours ago, latrell said:

The wide playmaker duty really intrigues me and i must agree that is how i see the Great Rivelino role but getting that role to work in fm i have found very difficult. @crusadertsarwhat do you think about this also great work you always make me fall in love with fm with your threads thank you. 

I'm curious about wide playmaker role too but I'm just not sure how it would affect our quick passing attacking style. Especially with another playmaker already in deep midfield. It's worth a try though.

@bhuvahh check the latest version of tactic, I switched Gerson role into RPM.

Edited by crusadertsar
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Joao Mario has been great for me as a wide playmaker on support. The 12 penalties inflate his numbers massively but still been really good regardless.

image.thumb.png.931ce970d73c72a198d5c991c71c7cd7.png

 

This is the tactic for anyone who is interested. Interesting that myself and @crusadertsar, without planning to, have looked to implement a very similar style and both used Lisbon clubs.

image.png.846ad5cbddfe45aeca80e1ea150a34c7.png

A couple of things to note:
- Would usually be Goncalo Ramos or Henrique Araujo up front, but both are currently injured.
- Right back has been on Full Back (Support) until the last few games, in order to reflect Brazil's 1970 team in which the left back was more conservative. I've obviously had to flip it over because of the players at my disposal. I've brought in Andre, a natural central midfielder, and I'm looking to retrain him to play right back. Gave him a more adventurous role, haven't decided if I'll keep it yet.
- I've also recently moved my striker into the very central role. I found that, when he was offset to the left, he would often occupy the exact same space as Rafa (AML, Inside Forward).
- After looking at the graphic that @Flußkrebs posted, I should probably have my deepest central midfielder on the same side as my more attacking full back (Grimaldo). This would mean swapping Florentino Luis and Enzo Fernandez over.

Current league record (season 2) in case anyone is interested:

image.thumb.png.ad41e57749e71b46de01f2f78113e9c5.png

Edited by ElJefe4
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10 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

Joao Mario has been great for me as a wide playmaker on support. The 12 penalties inflate his numbers massively but still been really good regardless.

image.thumb.png.931ce970d73c72a198d5c991c71c7cd7.png

 

This is the tactic for anyone who is interested. Interesting that myself and @crusadertsar, without planning to, have looked to implement a very similar style and both used Lisbon clubs.

image.png.846ad5cbddfe45aeca80e1ea150a34c7.png

A couple of things to note:
- Would usually be Goncalo Ramos or Henrique Araujo up front, but both are currently injured.
- Right back has been on Full Back (Support) until the last few games, in order to reflect Brazil's 1970 team in which the left back was more conservative. I've obviously had to flip it over because of the players at my disposal. I've brought in Andre, a natural central midfielder, and I'm looking to retrain him to play right back. Gave him a more adventurous role, haven't decided if I'll keep it yet.
- I've also recently moved my striker into the very central role. I found that, when he was offset to the left, he would often occupy the exact same space as Rafa (AML, Inside Forward).
- After looking at the graphic that @Flußkrebs posted, I should probably have my deepest central midfielder on the same side as my more attacking full back (Grimaldo). This would mean swapping Florentino Luis and Enzo Fernandez over.

Current league record (season 2) in case anyone is interested:

image.thumb.png.ad41e57749e71b46de01f2f78113e9c5.png

i would like to see joao mario on the left to make it more like brazil 1970 in a wide playmaker role as the Rivelino position.

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7 minutes ago, latrell said:

i would like to see joao mario on the left to make it more like brazil 1970 in a wide playmaker role as the Rivelino position.

As would I, but as I mentioned my squad is slightly better suited to how I've got it set up.

I've only recently signed Andre, so up until then my full backs were Grimaldo (left back) and Gilberto (right back). Grimaldo is a much more complete player so it made more sense to have him replicate the Carlos Alberto role and let Gilberto play the more simple role on the opposite side.

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7 minutes ago, ElJefe4 said:

As would I, but as I mentioned my squad is slightly better suited to how I've got it set up.

I've only recently signed Andre, so up until then my full backs were Grimaldo (left back) and Gilberto (right back). Grimaldo is a much more complete player so it made more sense to have him replicate the Carlos Alberto role and let Gilberto play the more simple role on the opposite side.

yes i see where your coming from with there ill wait to see what your team looks like when Andre is up to speed :) 

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It is working out very well:

12 unbeatenThe tactic is mainly like this, with a few changes depending on the chosen players:

(Note that some players are with me since 3rd division, most players are from own youth acadamy which obviously is not the best)

poor mans jogo

Edited by HanziZoloman
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I may be wrong but I think Germany played this way yesterday and it worked well during the first half. Braun was high and wide as a left-back. Sule stayed deep as a right-back forming a back 3 during the build-up. The double-pivot shared the 10 responsibility but Gundogan was doing it a bit more. And the front 4 was very fluid with movements. Musiala played on the inside left channel, Müller did Müller stuff, Havertz did pendulum movement and Gnabry stayed high and wide on the right.

It looked a lot like this system.

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16 minutes ago, bosque said:

I may be wrong but I think Germany played this way yesterday and it worked well during the first half. Braun was high and wide as a left-back. Sule stayed deep as a right-back forming a back 3 during the build-up. The double-pivot shared the 10 responsibility but Gundogan was doing it a bit more. And the front 4 was very fluid with movements. Musiala played on the inside left channel, Müller did Müller stuff, Havertz did pendulum movement and Gnabry stayed high and wide on the right.

It looked a lot like this system.

Yeah I saw that too. Too bad it didn't work for them better. 

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21 minutes ago, crusadertsar said:

Yeah I saw that too. Too bad it didn't work for them better. 

Reading an after-match analysis on The Athletic it was because of a great reading of the game from Japan's manager. They were 4v5 during the first half. So in the second half, he changed from a back 4 to a back 5 to stabilize the defence and stop the big threat Braun was being. This worked very well and Japan started to attack a lot the space left behind by Germany. 

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22 minutes ago, bosque said:

Reading an after-match analysis on The Athletic it was because of a great reading of the game from Japan's manager. They were 4v5 during the first half. So in the second half, he changed from a back 4 to a back 5 to stabilize the defence and stop the big threat Braun was being. This worked very well and Japan started to attack a lot the space left behind by Germany. 

Sounds like Japan pulled of a classic Mourinho. Will need to read more into it for more food for thought for my Defence-First thread :lol:

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@crusadertsarhalfway into the season and I'm still using your 4231 brazilian tactic but I'm noticing that more and more team is now gegenpressing me and I'm having trouble countering it. The only solution that I have right now is to out-press them but then the tactic turns into a gegenpress which I don't want to do. Do you have any suggestions on how to counter a gegenpress tactic without trying to press them back? I did read a couple of people saying that just like in fm 22 that the ME still favors gegenprss tactics.

Edited by sugarbear0511
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9 minutes ago, sugarbear0511 said:

@crusadertsarhalfway into the season and I'm still using your 4231 brazilian tactic but I'm noticing that more and more team is now gegenpressing me and I'm having trouble countering it. The only solution that I have right now is to out-press them but then the tactic turns into a gegenpress which I don't want to do. Do you have any suggestions on how to counter a gegenpress tactic without trying to press them back? I did read a couple of people saying that just like in fm 22 that the ME still favors gegenprss tactics.

I'm not crusaderstar but I will try to answer with football logic.

You can't use gegenpress to counter a gegenpress because both teams are on a different transition. The best way to avoid a high press is to play direct so you skip their high line of pressing.

You could try to ask your team to play more direct and see what happens. Other instructtons you could add are:

- Faster tempo (to avoid give the opposition time to press you).

- Wider width (because sometimes you have more space down the flanks, but depends on the opposition).

- Pass into space (because a team has to leave space behind in order to press high, so maybe there is space behind the defence to exploit).

But don't try everything at the same time. Try one, see if it works. Then the other, etc.

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5 hours ago, bosque said:

I'm not crusaderstar but I will try to answer with football logic.

You can't use gegenpress to counter a gegenpress because both teams are on a different transition. The best way to avoid a high press is to play direct so you skip their high line of pressing.

You could try to ask your team to play more direct and see what happens. Other instructtons you could add are:

- Faster tempo (to avoid give the opposition time to press you).

- Wider width (because sometimes you have more space down the flanks, but depends on the opposition).

- Pass into space (because a team has to leave space behind in order to press high, so maybe there is space behind the defence to exploit).

But don't try everything at the same time. Try one, see if it works. Then the other, etc.

I guess what I mean is that to employ gegenpress myself, not pressing them back while having the ball. The tactic itself already is playing at the highest tempo setting I'm going to tell my players to dribble less and pass into space and see what happen.

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Frustrated to say that my above tactic has gone from scoring 65 goals in 21 league games to looking completely toothless in open play! Thought I was getting pretty close to an accurate representation of 1970 Brazil, but we now we can't create a chance to save our lives.

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19 hours ago, ElJefe4 said:

Frustrated to say that my above tactic has gone from scoring 65 goals in 21 league games to looking completely toothless in open play! Thought I was getting pretty close to an accurate representation of 1970 Brazil, but we now we can't create a chance to save our lives.

When are you losing the ball and why do you think you are losing it? Can you watch back some games and spot patterns on how are you losing the ball?

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On 30/11/2022 at 17:48, bosque said:

When are you losing the ball and why do you think you are losing it? Can you watch back some games and spot patterns on how are you losing the ball?

Seemed to be forcing a lot of killer balls from deep/middle third areas to forward players who were neither dropping off to receive the ball into feet, nor running in behind. 

I got sucked into my bad habit of chopping and changing too many roles and instructions, to the extent that I can't tell what change is benefitting or harming us. Couldn't see the wood from the trees.

Decided a complete reset was needed. Gone away from the 1970 Brazil model towards more of a 4-2-4, although with some similarities. Double pivot midfield. AML who tucks inside allowing space for an overlapping left back. More conservative full back on the right with a wider, more direct winger ahead of him. 

Completely stripped back the Team Instructions to no more than a few and will only add them as necessary from now on. One of our first games, ourselves and Arsenal had an identical xG of 1.72. Somehow ended up in a 5-1 defeat. Just some to be in one of those ruts! :lol:

On a side note, when using 2 striker formations does anyone else find that they seem to struggle to link up with each other? 

image.png.fd0d92c5cb8b04304150c539c6c03d59.png

This is my set up by the way.

image.png.3ec06e148958137a55636e7fddf1cc67.png

Mario told to sit narrower. Neres told to stay wider, although I may just change him to a winger as he'll probably cut inside onto his left anyway given that its his dominant foot and he has the trait to do so.

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Big thank you for taking the time to post this and go through it. Loved a recent journeyman i did in south america and coming across this made me decide to go back. Started a save (fittingly i think) with Santos specifically to try this tactic/play style. I made a few adjustments but nothing major and we were humming along fine but on the topic of the assymetric and whether it's necessary or not. I tried my most recent match with Palmeiras to move to the standard 4231 alignment and it resulted in a 6-1 hammering of them where their 1 goal was a last minute consolation.

Really liking also that it isn't a high press and feels like my players actually have the energy to use in the attack instead of running the length of the pitch chasing the ball all game. 

For me the move to the standard alignment really gave the SV much more room to roam forward and get involved. Something that I felt was lacking a bit with the SS and IW so tight together in front of him. Also as my young ST Leonardo isn't quite developed i've moved him to poacher and he has scored 5 in 4 since the change. Overall really enjoying the setup so far and watching the way it all plays together in the match engine is really enjoyable. 

Here's the minor tweaks and the Palmeiras result. Thanks again @crusadertsar!
 

20221205231358_1.jpg

20221205231222_1.jpg

Edited by mbyrd75
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10 hours ago, mbyrd75 said:

Big thank you for taking the time to post this and go through it. Loved a recent journeyman i did in south america and coming across this made me decide to go back. Started a save (fittingly i think) with Santos specifically to try this tactic/play style. I made a few adjustments but nothing major and we were humming along fine but on the topic of the assymetric and whether it's necessary or not. I tried my most recent match with Palmeiras to move to the standard 4231 alignment and it resulted in a 6-1 hammering of them where their 1 goal was a last minute consolation.

Really liking also that it isn't a high press and feels like my players actually have the energy to use in the attack instead of running the length of the pitch chasing the ball all game. 

For me the move to the standard alignment really gave the SV much more room to roam forward and get involved. Something that I felt was lacking a bit with the SS and IW so tight together in front of him. Also as my young ST Leonardo isn't quite developed i've moved him to poacher and he has scored 5 in 4 since the change. Overall really enjoying the setup so far and watching the way it all plays together in the match engine is really enjoyable. 

Here's the minor tweaks and the Palmeiras result. Thanks again @crusadertsar!
 

20221205231358_1.jpg

20221205231222_1.jpg

Nice! Did you use any individual instructions?

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13 hours ago, mbyrd75 said:

Big thank you for taking the time to post this and go through it. Loved a recent journeyman i did in south america and coming across this made me decide to go back. Started a save (fittingly i think) with Santos specifically to try this tactic/play style. I made a few adjustments but nothing major and we were humming along fine but on the topic of the assymetric and whether it's necessary or not. I tried my most recent match with Palmeiras to move to the standard 4231 alignment and it resulted in a 6-1 hammering of them where their 1 goal was a last minute consolation.

Really liking also that it isn't a high press and feels like my players actually have the energy to use in the attack instead of running the length of the pitch chasing the ball all game. 

For me the move to the standard alignment really gave the SV much more room to roam forward and get involved. Something that I felt was lacking a bit with the SS and IW so tight together in front of him. Also as my young ST Leonardo isn't quite developed i've moved him to poacher and he has scored 5 in 4 since the change. Overall really enjoying the setup so far and watching the way it all plays together in the match engine is really enjoyable. 

Here's the minor tweaks and the Palmeiras result. Thanks again @crusadertsar!
 

20221205231358_1.jpg

20221205231222_1.jpg

Amazing result! And good to see that the tactical tweeks are working for your team. Thanks for bringing this up actually as I was thinking to go back to the tactic to test it more with the symmetrical version like you tried. Now I'm inspired by your results to give it a try and continue my save :lol: But I have to stop making new saves every time a new tactical idea strikes my fancy. So far barely finished a season in any of my saves haha. I got a real problem :idiot: But at least it's inspiring others 

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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2 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Amazing result! And good to see that the tactical tweeks are working for your team. Thanks for bringing this up actually as I was thinking to go back to the tactic to test it more with the symmetrical version like you tried. Now I'm inspired by your results to give it a try and continue my save :lol: But I have to stop making new saves every time a new tactical idea strikes my fancy. So far barely finished a season in any of my saves haha. I got a real problem :idiot: But at least it's inspiring others 

 

You absolutely should. I have the same problem with save jumping but this one has really grabbed me. I think the way it plays is just really fun to watch especially now that the SV is really dictating play for my team. Camacho wasn't my first choice SV and had planned to move him on but he's basically acting like a hybrid SV/RPM and it's a joy to watch. I think what I enjoy the most is how varied the attack is with this tactic. There's not one specific "if we're going to score itll be this type of goal" situation. They come from all over and in different ways. Just had a 5-0 destruction of River Plate in the Sundamerica knockout stages where all 5 were scored by different players. 

 

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4 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Amazing result! And good to see that the tactical tweeks are working for your team. Thanks for bringing this up actually as I was thinking to go back to the tactic to test it more with the symmetrical version like you tried. Now I'm inspired by your results to give it a try and continue my save :lol: But I have to stop making new saves every time a new tactical idea strikes my fancy. So far barely finished a season in any of my saves haha. I got a real problem :idiot: But at least it's inspiring others 

 

I also went more symmetrical for the second half of the season after a mid season slump. Getting back to basics really paid off.

image.png.540a3ce2d90ca64d4d9725a33c50a8b8.png

 

image.png.5991414e91b999a775367e7db42267c1.png

7 of the 13 goals we conceded in the 18 games above actually came after the 80th minute, which makes me think we're not used to the added intensity and maybe I need to have a less intense version of the tactic to slow the game down and see it out.

Despite going with the above as a 'back to basics' kind of thing, moving away from the 1970 Brazil side, Having an Advanced Playmaker on Support in the AML position with a 'Sit Narrower' player instruction is actually the closest I've got to replicating the positioning I wanted out of whoever was replicating the Rivelino role. It often looks like a quasi-433 with Mario sitting closer to my central midfielders and Neres pushing up in that Jairzinho role closer to the front 2. As a left footer he naturally comes inside and gets plenty of scoring opportunities moving into the space vacated by Ramos.

The configuration of the full backs and strike partnership is a bit different but suits my team much more. This system is playing some lovely football.

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I had my first youth intake at Sporting and was lucky to get this gem of a player. 

52F4968FD437A92D5EB3A8ADBDC053B27F8D538B (1600×900)

Joao is labelled as one of the best players of his generation, which is game's way of saying that he could turn out to be one really special player that you only get every few decades. His attribute profile looks very similar to Anderlecht's Julien Duranville, who if you don't know already, is probably one of the best wonderkids at the start of the game. 

AD2D0641418B3BF0D6F73F783B84F14069BF0CE8 (1600×900)

Joao is only a few months away from his 16th birth day and his attributes already look good enough to play as a sub in Portuguese League. The only problem is that he has the dreaded "fickle" personality :(. I am haunted by this personality since FM21. Every time I found a truly great player he happened to be fickle. And in the past two games even after 2-3 years of mentoring I could not get rid of it. I know it's gotten pretty hard to change player's personality in the last couple of FM games. Gone are the days of mentoring your youth until they are all determined, driven bastards. But shouldn't it be possible to improve personality even just a little bit, especially at such an early age? So is there any hope for this player? In your own experience in FM22 or FM23 were you ever able to retrain a newgen from fickle to something better. I could even settle for "balanced" haha. 

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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Fickle indicates he has very high Ambition, which is great for player development. But you might struggle to keep him at your club and he might constantly ask for new contracts or for you to strengthen the team, so it's definitely a bit of a headache!

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2 hours ago, Dereka said:

Fickle indicates he has very high Ambition, which is great for player development. But you might struggle to keep him at your club and he might constantly ask for new contracts or for you to strengthen the team, so it's definitely a bit of a headache!

Oh my god that sounds like a second coming of Cristiano to Sporting. Wow, I really had the wrong of idea of this word all these years. For some reason I thought it indicated that his in-game consistency would be crap. It's actually not that bad! Thanks!

 

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I'm still playing FM21, but I also find it very hard to change some personalities. Sometimes it changes, but other times it doesn't. I guess you also need to have a bit of luck. It is what it is.

Unfortunately I had to say no to young talents who could potentially fit the way I want to play because they had personalities like fickle or mercenary, which I find incredibly hard to change. I'm even a bit skeptical when they have a balanced personality, because I hate that one too lol.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb mikcheck:

I'm still playing FM21, but I also find it very hard to change some personalities. Sometimes it changes, but other times it doesn't. I guess you also need to have a bit of luck. It is what it is.

Unfortunately I had to say no to young talents who could potentially fit the way I want to play because they had personalities like fickle or mercenary, which I find incredibly hard to change. I'm even a bit skeptical when they have a balanced personality, because I hate that one too lol.

I am with you mate. In my Scottish save I have medium mentors and my players hardly change at all. In my 1860 save I have very strong mentors who are team icons and personality change is a joke, lots of professional personalities at age 19 and 20 

(I play FM20)

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Off topic but anyone know how to make a 442 into 3-1-4-2 in possession. I tried two ways to produces:

1)       Using narrow formation but wide width

                          PF/AF -------------TQ

                       Mez(s)              (Cm-S stay wider) 

                       Hb(d)                (Regista)

Wb(s).       CD                                       CD              Wb(s)

Both Cb stay wider. Told 2 central midfielders to man mark fullbacks but they didn't so changed my approach to this

 

2)                      PF/AF.                     TQ

Wp(s)                                                           IW (S/A)

                       Hb                         Reg

Wb(s)    Cd                                  Cd                 (WB(S)

Problem was that there wide players didn't tuck in enough as I wanted to and both started wide during the build up. You guys have any suggestions?

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19 hours ago, eddygodwin said:

Off topic but anyone know how to make a 442 into 3-1-4-2 in possession. I tried two ways to produces:

1)       Using narrow formation but wide width

                          PF/AF -------------TQ

                       Mez(s)              (Cm-S stay wider) 

                       Hb(d)                (Regista)

Wb(s).       CD                                       CD              Wb(s)

Both Cb stay wider. Told 2 central midfielders to man mark fullbacks but they didn't so changed my approach to this

 

2)                      PF/AF.                     TQ

Wp(s)                                                           IW (S/A)

                       Hb                         Reg

Wb(s)    Cd                                  Cd                 (WB(S)

Problem was that there wide players didn't tuck in enough as I wanted to and both started wide during the build up. You guys have any suggestions?

PIs and traits would be how I'd achieve that narrow play. If needed, overlap can help even more

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Mini-Update:

 

We Won the League! 

92DA197462D8ADBAB2A14D041900E671BDF29801 (1600×900)

I am the dude in the bright blue polo shirt :cool:

 

87F9C1F628AF9A95BF9F321E65B4441E69ED3E87 (1600×900)

 

Really didn't think it was going to happen as Benfica and Porto are very tough competition in the first season of the game, but somehow Sporting did it, repeating the miracle of two years ago. 

C76F64143A1A29B2FB3432DEA928664007A52CF2 (1600×900)

We definitely clinched it in style with one more match to go (against Porto, so that will be a very fun one with no more pressure for us) with an emphatic 6-0 win against Portimonense.

89A80325A2A663731EE71F092E0F9FFACF5FD1BC (1600×900)

I believe that our Brazilian-inspired 4-2-3-1 performed very well and had a big impact over the course of the season. It especially helped our Front Four to score consistently. Even the aging Paulinho (mostly playing as a sub) chipped in with a decent return. And Marcus was stellar in his creative role with 13 goals and 15 assists. Pedro Goncalves with 25 goals is only one away from tying the record of the current top league goalscorer (Benfica's Henrique Araujo), so here hoping that the final Porto match goes well for him. 

637D7239EC0677D203E48F857E3177746BBD8EFD (1600×900)

Statistically I cannot be more happy with the tactic. Despite being a more attacking top heavy formation, it was very solid defensively. We were second (27) with the fewest goals conceded and had the fewest shots against! Not a bad record for 4-2-3-1. And we had most points per game and most goals scored.

32D4C8AA6981B6229BB4106EEAE741864AC42651 (1600×900)

 

And this is what the tactic looks like at the end of the season,

3C3464C672CE598C09A15B068D798485957A12ED (1600×900)

Edited by crusadertsar
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22 hours ago, crusadertsar said:

Mini-Update:

 

We Won the League! 

92DA197462D8ADBAB2A14D041900E671BDF29801 (1600×900)

I am the dude in the bright blue polo shirt :cool:

 

87F9C1F628AF9A95BF9F321E65B4441E69ED3E87 (1600×900)

 

Really didn't think it was going to happen as Benfica and Porto are very tough competition in the first season of the game, but somehow Sporting did it, repeating the miracle of two years ago. 

C76F64143A1A29B2FB3432DEA928664007A52CF2 (1600×900)

We definitely clinched it in style with one more match to go (against Porto, so that will be a very fun one with no more pressure for us) with an emphatic 6-0 win against Portimonense.

89A80325A2A663731EE71F092E0F9FFACF5FD1BC (1600×900)

I believe that our Brazilian-inspired 4-2-3-1 performed very well and had a big impact over the course of the season. It especially helped our Front Four to score consistently. Even the aging Paulinho (mostly playing as a sub) chipped in with a decent return. And Marcus was stellar in his creative role with 13 goals and 15 assists. Pedro Goncalves with 25 goals is only one away from tying the record of the current top league goalscorer (Benfica's Henrique Araujo), so here hoping that the final Porto match goes well for him. 

637D7239EC0677D203E48F857E3177746BBD8EFD (1600×900)

Statistically I cannot be more happy with the tactic. Despite being a more attacking top heavy formation, it was very solid defensively. We were second (27) with the fewest goals conceded and had the fewest shots against! Not a bad record for 4-2-3-1. And we had most points per game and most goals scored.

32D4C8AA6981B6229BB4106EEAE741864AC42651 (1600×900)

 

And this is what the tactic looks like at the end of the season,

3C3464C672CE598C09A15B068D798485957A12ED (1600×900)

Is there a download for this tactic?

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The Brazilian Box - The Best Things Come in Pairs

 

And now for Christmas, it is time for something different, and fun hopefully :hammer:

While the 4-2-3-1 might require a stronger team (like Sporting for instance) to really make it shine, the Brazilian 4-2-2-2 ("The Magic Box") is probably the easiest entryway into Jogo Bonito. I love the simplicity of Brazilian Magic Box system! And especially because it is easy to set up with almost any team, at any level. You do not need as many specialized attacking players. And especially if your team lacks technical and fast inside forwards, you can make due with two slower (but still quite creative) Number 10s behind two strikers. Then the whole tactic is grounded upon the the strong defensive double pivot either in central midfield or defensive midfield. And in the lower leagues it's usually easier to find good (and affordable) hard-working defensive midfielder types rather than more flashy attacking-focused mezzalas or segundo volantes.

image.jpeg.71075dff8989351f7bbdb398febf3a73.jpeg

The Introduction to The Tactic

The whole formation is built around complimentary interactions between five pairs of players. There is the midfield double pivot of course. These two defensive midfielders are key to the whole formation as they protect the back-four and basically give the front four the freedom to attack (with the support of the two full-backs). The pair of attacking midfielders further up the pitch can move wider but mostly cut inside to support the duo of strikers. At the same time the pair of fullbacks are encouraged to overlap the centrally-positioned AMCs, adding another dimension to attack. And finally the final pairing is the centreback duo which is another important tactical duo. 

With the midfield double pivot and the solid centreback duo, the attack can truly be freed and the idea is to overload the opposition defences with no less than six players. Due to the narrow nature of the tactic, your flanks might seem vulnerable. But thanks to a strong combination of defesively-minded double pivot and tall, strong centrebacks, most the opposition threat can be neutralized. You could technically allow the opponent the advantage of the flanks (and invite low-chance crosses from the byline) safe in the knowledge that they will have little chance getting through your four defending players (especially if all of them have good positioning and jumping reach). Such flank attacks are thus left as collateral and only capable of doing limited damage. In the end, the opposition  still needs to move centre-wise to score. To score from crosses they would require trully great crossers and tall, clinical strikers, a combination that is rare even for the top teams.

image.jpeg.51741c93ec875e5a58eafa1120d350e4.jpeg

The 4-2-2-2 was most famously used by Brazil's National Team at 1982 World Cup. Brazil might not have advanced past the 2nd group stage but their on-pitch magic definitely made it into a memorable tournament (who can forget that 3-1 beating of Argentina!). And once again the chemistry between the pairs of the players in Brazil's 4-2-2-2 is what made the tactic stand out.

The 4-2-2-2 formation was chosen by Telê Santana, Brazil's 1982 manager, because it could accommodate his best players. This was no easy task as he had two of the world's best attacking midfielders. Zico, who at the time was the world's top footballer, and Socrates, the most cerebral player of beautiful game. Zico was a phenomenal fantasista who could string passes, dribbles and score goals like no other footballer at the time (with the possible exception of Maradona). On the other hand there was Socrates - a trained medical doctor and political activist, and Brazil's answer to Holland's Cruyff. The Brain of the formation. Socrates saw the field like no other, putting together complex passes with sublime ease of a general. This was only matched by his precision in hitting the ball.

image.thumb.jpeg.9f07331a65e4c8dd755cef8755631ebb.jpeg

 

The Player Role Combinations

The Two Strikers - Because by nature Jogo Bonito football is very fluid, the strikers are not required to be specialists. If anything more well-rounded complete strikers (especially with good passing, work-rate and physicals) will do well here. As such they wil need to be comfortable dropping deep and playing in midfield too. Or if you do not have tall strikers then definitely someone in the mould of Wayne Rooney or Carlos Tevez will do wonders in this formation. This is because one in the striker pair will need to drop deep to support the other striker (who due to his skill might be the primary goal-scorer) and also allow for the attacking midfielders to overlap.

While one of the two strikers may come deep to create space for the attacking midfielders to run in behind, the two forwards are mainly tasked with remaining central and high up the pitch. From here, the strikers are responsible for creating and finishing chances. They can occupy the opposing centrebacks, link play with midfield runners, attack crosses, through balls and cut-backs. And just generally stretch the opposition centrebacks by threatening the space directly in front of the goal. The central striker threat is great in freeing up valuable space for your other players, like AMCs and fullbacks, who prefer to attack the half-spaces and flanks.

The Two Attacking Midfielders - have multi-functional responsibilities and for that reason they need to be very well-rounded midfielders – good technical ability, passing and clinical in front of the goal. They are also required to be relatively tireless. This is because on attack they have the choice to either run wide to the wings, move into the half-space channels or stay inside to support the strikers. But during defence your #10s need to track back (either to the flanks where the system is most vulnerable or to the deeper midfield in an attempt to overwhelm the opposition with superior numbers there). This is where the fluidity of the system comes into full effect. The two #10s also need to be your most "roaming" players.

box.png.dc9b4ca12b52d6dbe8c795df4e4ffe50.png

I really like the Trequartisa (the more technical passer/creator of the AMC duo) and Shadow Striker (the stronger goal-scorer) combo here. Why? It is the only two AMC roles that allow the unique combination of "stay wider", "move into channels" and "roam from position" instructions. The three things that I need from my AMC strata players. 

The number 10s are the tactic's primary creators. And this is both the most interesting and unique aspect of the Brazilian 4-2-2-2. The two AMCs aim to get into positions between the opposition fullbacks and centrebacks and try to pick up the ball in these less well-defended half-space channels. Thus besides being the two creators they are also the two primary "channel runners". From this strategic space they try to avoid opposition markers and try to link the defence and double pivot to your centre-forwards. While at the same time also offering an additional goal threat. If they have good Off The Ball and Anticipation, then you will often see your AMCs bursting forward during counter-attacks and subsequent moves to pick up passes and shoot from distance (so Long Shots attribute is also a bonus). Finally, when appropriate, the #10s will decide to move wide to support the advanced full-backs. Similar to a deeper-sitting mezzala half-winger, the #10s may deliver crosses or make decoy runs to create space for the full-back to cross.

The Midfield Double Pivot - To Be Continued...

 

 

Edited by crusadertsar
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7D0402FE4A39C29443D3A5D541915A9A5B23CBED (1600×900)

HA! Beat my old club Sporting while using the new Magic Box tactic. Using "Portugal's Arsenal" Braga which is actually not a bad little club but definitely does not possess the same quality of players as Sporting. Two other interesting things to note here is that: It was AWAY game and that the Sporting red card actually came late in 84th minute and none of our goals were scored after that time. Our xG was really impressive too. Anyway I am excited to write more about this tactic in the future updates.

box2.png.8a1915da712062fa27b2e3ba92b85a93.png 

Edited by crusadertsar
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So in honour of Pele, I decided to release another little update on my Magic Box tactic. It was a very sad news yesterday but gave me great inspiration to continue testing and writing about this little tactic. And to really try to make it into my best tactical system in FM23. 

The Two Central Midfielders - The double pivot is a key pairing in the tactic. The two central midfielders help out by protecting the central space in front of the centrebacks. They also help in the wider midfield space where we have least coverage due to the narrow formation. Hence the choice of a carrilero role.

car.png.46665aaec30cdcbf7bbdd4b387d5e417.png

I find that carrilero, which was a role that was added to FM a few years back, is practically irreplaceble when one tries to craft narrow formations. These formations will have no dedicated wide midfielders or wingers to occupy the flanks. With such deficiency you need a hard-working midfielder that is dedicated to both covering the general central midfield area and overlaping into the wider flank space. The fullback will help in that coverage in both attack and defence but will do so only partially and will mainly stray into opposition half (less so on support duty).

The carrilero on the other hand is hardcoded to act as a sort of wide box-to-box midfielder. In the sense, that he will "shuttle" from centre of the pitch to his respective flank. And in doing this he will mainly stay in his tactical strata (between DM and AM strata). Sort of in the way that B2B midfielder covers the pitch from box to box vertically, the carrilero will work equally hard horizontally. Thus you can see why carrileros are so unevaluable to a narrow 4-2-2-2 tactic.

Using a pair of carrileros for my double pivot is great because they help bring balance to the part of the tactic that is lacking (width). Also by its under-the-hood coding carrilero is a more conservative role. It is not a holding midfielder (one with defend duty) but a covering one. Which means that the carrileros will try to regain the ball as soon as they can (dictated by our pressing instructions) and then launch it to the closest advancing teammate, be it the two AMCs or the fullbacks. Because they are both on Support duty, the carrileros are not limited to only side-to-side shuttling movements. At times, one may drop back after the full-backs have pushed forward. Alternatively, one of them may provide a delayed forward run to join the attack.

Essentially my dual carrileros are perfect for my formation. The can protect the central spaces in front of the centrebacks, but will also push forward to support a high press if I want them to. They will also be responsible for tracking runs from opposition midfielders beyond the midfield line.

The two midfielders are the only real specialists the system requires. Their main responsibility is to provide cover for the defense. What is crucial here is for them to possess great passing ability. It's up to them to compensate for the system’s weakness between defense and attack. So if you can get two players who are comfortable with long-ball passes then it will make the job easier for your strikers and attacking midfielders.

The Two Fullbacks are under huge pressure in this tactic. They will get forward and overlap with the attacking midfielders, seeking out the free space their teammates leave behind. In doing this, they also have to be constantly aware of what’s going on behind them and should track back to provide wide cover for the two central defenders. To recreate this dual purpose I decided to try the roles of fullbacks (support) with the added instruction to get further forward, stay wide and overlap. Naturally your fullbacks should posses tons of stamina and very good crossing abilities.

finaltac.png.bec387e47f3228c84b3704d8688be6ce.png

The Two Centrebacks. Finally, regarding the centrebacks, I would keep it simple. Just get two of the best you can find. They need to have the classic centreback attributes. That is, they absolutely need to be strong, good jumpers, positionally aware and excel at tackling and marking. In addition to the high-pressing nature of the tactic, you will need relatively fast (acceleration and pace) players here. Of course it is all relative to your league. I always prefer the stopper/sweeper combo but it is not absolutely necessary. Having one centreback who is more comfortable on the ball however is a very good addition to the tactic. If you can set your best passer as a ballplaying defender in either cover or stopper duty it will aid greatly with your build-up from the back.

Edited by crusadertsar
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  • crusadertsar changed the title to Jogo Bonito - "Beautiful Game": Guide to Playing 4-2-3-1(and 4-2-2-2) Like a Brazilian
On 28/12/2022 at 04:25, MattyLewis11 said:

Looking forward to the next update, if you've been reading my thread you will know I have played FM23 with a similar system in Villarreal. Top work as always 💪

Nice! I will definitely need to check out your thread for some insights into this style. So far it seems like a very good way to play in FM23. Not overpowered but surprisingly balanced in its attack and defence, despite the very narrow formation. How did you do with Villareal (my favourite club in FM22 :))? Any trophies won? 

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On 26/12/2022 at 06:03, crusadertsar said:

 

The Player Role Combinations

The Two Strikers - Because by nature Jogo Bonito football is very fluid, the strikers are not required to be specialists. If anything more well-rounded complete strikers (especially with good passing, work-rate and physicals) will do well here. As such they wil need to be comfortable dropping deep and playing in midfield too. Or if you do not have tall strikers then definitely someone in the mould of Wayne Rooney or Carlos Tevez will do wonders in this formation. This is because one in the striker pair will need to drop deep to support the other striker (who due to his skill might be the primary goal-scorer) and also allow for the attacking midfielders to overlap.

While one of the two strikers may come deep to create space for the attacking midfielders to run in behind, the two forwards are mainly tasked with remaining central and high up the pitch. From here, the strikers are responsible for creating and finishing chances. They can occupy the opposing centrebacks, link play with midfield runners, attack crosses, through balls and cut-backs. And just generally stretch the opposition centrebacks by threatening the space directly in front of the goal. The central striker threat is great in freeing up valuable space for your other players, like AMCs and fullbacks, who prefer to attack the half-spaces and flanks.

First off, I love your write ups. Detail is great. Now into the questions.

 

Why a PF-Su rather than a true creator/drop deeper role like a DLF, trequartista (I guess this may be due the the AMC), F9 or even CF-Su? I get the lack of a TM-Su (although, I think it could work in specific circumstances) but to me the PF isn't screaming 'fluid movement' when I'm thinking of roles and duties. For what you have here I'd have thought F9 or DLF-Su to allow the two AMC's to push ahead while the striker drops deeper.

Is it something to do with player instructions? Are you asking them to stay wider like the AMC's?

On 31/12/2022 at 00:27, crusadertsar said:

The Two Central Midfielders - The double pivot is a key pairing in the tactic. The two central midfielders help out by protecting the central space in front of the centrebacks. They also help in the wider midfield space where we have least coverage due to the narrow formation. Hence the choice of a carrilero role.

car.png.46665aaec30cdcbf7bbdd4b387d5e417.png

I find that carrilero, which was a role that was added to FM a few years back, is practically irreplaceble when one tries to craft narrow formations. These formations will have no dedicated wide midfielders or wingers to occupy the flanks. With such deficiency you need a hard-working midfielder that is dedicated to both covering the general central midfield area and overlaping into the wider flank space. The fullback will help in that coverage in both attack and defence but will do so only partially and will mainly stray into opposition half (less so on support duty).

The carrilero on the other hand is hardcoded to act as a sort of wide box-to-box midfielder. In the sense, that he will "shuttle" from centre of the pitch to his respective flank. And in doing this he will mainly stay in his tactical strata (between DM and AM strata). Sort of in the way that B2B midfielder covers the pitch from box to box vertically, the carrilero will work equally hard horizontally. Thus you can see why carrileros are so unevaluable to a narrow 4-2-2-2 tactic.

Using a pair of carrileros for my double pivot is great because they help bring balance to the part of the tactic that is lacking (width). Also by its under-the-hood coding carrilero is a more conservative role. It is not a holding midfielder (one with defend duty) but a covering one. Which means that the carrileros will try to regain the ball as soon as they can (dictated by our pressing instructions) and then launch it to the closest advancing teammate, be it the two AMCs or the fullbacks. Because they are both on Support duty, the carrileros are not limited to only side-to-side shuttling movements. At times, one may drop back after the full-backs have pushed forward. Alternatively, one of them may provide a delayed forward run to join the attack.

Essentially my dual carrileros are perfect for my formation. The can protect the central spaces in front of the centrebacks, but will also push forward to support a high press if I want them to. They will also be responsible for tracking runs from opposition midfielders beyond the midfield line.

The two midfielders are the only real specialists the system requires. Their main responsibility is to provide cover for the defense. What is crucial here is for them to possess great passing ability. It's up to them to compensate for the system’s weakness between defense and attack. So if you can get two players who are comfortable with long-ball passes then it will make the job easier for your strikers and attacking midfielders.

I haven't used carrileos before - I've never been happy with how they worked within my particular tactics so the use of two here intrigues me. Do you setup one to have some more ballplaying responsibilities (more direct passing, more risky passes)? As they are typically support players does one get some more defensive responsibilities? Is this just me over-thinking it as I haven't used them before?

On 31/12/2022 at 00:27, crusadertsar said:

The Two Fullbacks are under huge pressure in this tactic. They will get forward and overlap with the attacking midfielders, seeking out the free space their teammates leave behind. In doing this, they also have to be constantly aware of what’s going on behind them and should track back to provide wide cover for the two central defenders. To recreate this dual purpose I decided to try the roles of fullbacks (support) with the added instruction to get further forward, stay wide and overlap. Naturally your fullbacks should posses tons of stamina and very good crossing abilities.

finaltac.png.bec387e47f3228c84b3704d8688be6ce.png

Was there a reason for the change form attacking to support? Do you go attacking or even a split between the two due to  the opposition?

 

Overall, you have the fullbacks, carrileros and AMCs staying wider. You also have the team instruction of fairly wide. Do you ever have issues centrally? To me, on the surface I feel there could be some issues through the middle rather than wide as is usual with a narrow tactic.

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