*Official* Football Manager 2023 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread

[zzkeg27]

39 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Do you have compiled data to back up this claim? Does every team in your save have an harder time winning on the road or just you?

People I've talked to, including myself, say the difference between all teams in away games and home games is too big.

He also said his team lost the away match even though the opposing team had two sent off. This is not realistic at all.

Several people have said similar things to me.

Edited November 4, 2022 by zzkeg27

[BamBamBam]

Just noticed the main FM twitch streamers, in FM23 Beta week, are ALL playing other games now! 

Now if that doesn't give you confidence, i don't know what will!! 

[andu1]

3 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

Just noticed the main FM twitch streamers, in FM23 Beta week, are ALL playing other games now! 

Now if that doesn't give you confidence, i don't know what will!! 

I think they are waiting for the full release like we all are. I am also waiting for the editor to make some adjustments.

Hopefully the update to full game will be out monday night

[BamBamBam]

Just now, andu1 said:

I think they are waiting for the full release like we all are. I am also waiting for the editor to make some adjustments.

Hopefully the update to full game will be out monday night

Ben just quit the game after some pretty bad animations and decisions by his defence 

[styluz05]

17 hours ago, janrzm said:

I've got 5.7hrs recorded on Steam for FM23. I've not started any form of save just played around. For the first time ever I have zero desire to play at all. I had already made my mind up that I wouldn't get into a proper save until after the Christmas update but now I think I'd be genuinely surprised if I even do that.

I'm past the point of being able to refund but I certainly would have, something else I've never felt before despite buying every iteration of this game since 92.   

I'm used to underwhelming releases, bugged betas, historical neglect of certain game elements but I can't put my finger on what's happened this time, i just feel that ignoring this version is the right thing to do. The nature of the game used to leave me thinking that if you missed a release or two you could struggle to get back into it as it's so involved but to be brutally honest I think I could drop out for a decade and still recognise most of it on my return.

You know, I think I've realised that I'm actually more in love with the idea of this game and what it could be than I actually am in the game itself. Sad times.

Easily done, I got a refund after 30hrs of play, just explained my reasoning and Steam agreed to refund me. I want it to be a success and maybe they'll fix the number of issues and then I'll purchase it later in the year or next year. Gone back to FM22 for now. 

[elt]

Everyone in here micro analysing tiny aspects of the game and working themselves into a shoot.

Just enjoy the game for what it is. Even if its stagnated its still one of the best value for money games ever in existence.

[Peter Taylor]

2 hours ago, b.sinisa said:

@Peter Taylor any word on fixing transfer and wages bug when all the time players/teams accept lower value and wanting x3 times wage and transfer fee from you?

For clarity, my area of the game is design (specifically text). Please report all bugs in the usual way:

https://community.sigames.com/bugtracker/football-manager-2023-early-access-beta-bugs-tracker/

[BamBamBam]

4 minutes ago, elt said:

Everyone in here micro analysing tiny aspects of the game and working themselves into a shoot.

Just enjoy the game for what it is. Even if its stagnated its still one of the best value for money games ever in existence.

And there is the problem. Why fork out money for it if it has stagnated?

[elt]

6 minutes ago, BamBamBam said:

And there is the problem. Why fork out money for it if it has stagnated?

Because youre not buying the potential product you have in your mind of what it could be if it wasnt "stagnated", youre buying a product u can get 100s of hours of entertainment from

[ajw10]

3 hours ago, gunnerfan said:

“Wokeness” comes to FM. Sigh.

What an embarrassing post

[gunnerfan]

2 minutes ago, ajw10 said:

What an embarrassing post

Nothing for you to be embarrassed about. 

[Arnar]

1 hour ago, elt said:

Everyone in here micro analysing tiny aspects of the game and working themselves into a shoot.

Just enjoy the game for what it is. Even if its stagnated its still one of the best value for money games ever in existence.

I was watching work the space last night and seeing gks just rush out of goal then just stoping, letting the attacker through on goal multible times isnt micro analysing tiny aspects.
 

Or if you go and watch dr benjy’s vod from today starting from 2:41:30, nothing happening in that 30 minutes of ingame time is tiny aspect of the game.

 

i paid 15$ for csgo 10 years ago that is great value for money but buying fm22.5 isnt great value for money.

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, BamBamBam said:

Just noticed the main FM twitch streamers, in FM23 Beta week, are ALL playing other games now! 

Now if that doesn't give you confidence, i don't know what will!! 

Yep, the hype seems to be dying out very fast. A real shame. 

[XaW]

Well, nothing in here gets ignored, even if it doesn't get a direct response from SI staff. And we mods VERY rarely hide stuff here, unless it's users who have been asked to take discussions elsewhere, or if there are abuse or the like. 

If you don't want to "waste your time" giving constructive feedback, then I suggest this to be your last post in this thread, since that's the actual idea here and your post will probably have very little impact since, you know, you don't give any reason for your choice. That said, if you don't enjoy the game any more, I'd suggest playing something else, or just doing something that you enjoy more.

[BamBamBam]

4 hours ago, XaW said:

Well, nothing in here gets ignored, even if it doesn't get a direct response from SI staff. And we mods VERY rarely hide stuff here, unless it's users who have been asked to take discussions elsewhere, or if there are abuse or the like. 

If you don't want to "waste your time" giving constructive feedback, then I suggest this to be your last post in this thread, since that's the actual idea here and your post will probably have very little impact since, you know, you don't give any reason for your choice. That said, if you don't enjoy the game any more, I'd suggest playing something else, or just doing something that you enjoy more.

But people are agreeing with him, so... 

[XaW]

21 hours ago, BamBamBam said:

But people are agreeing with him, so... 

Sure, but it's anyone's guess as to why, since he don't give any reason. I dunno, can't read anyone's mind.

[Wizard boy]

I caved and bought it. Just started my bradford save. Just played my league two match and ME looks nice. Rest of the game seems pretty much the same. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

Despite the graphical talk of the game, one aspect of the game that is often overlooked is the audio. Added music to the Champions League has been a significant advancement in this area, but unfortunately, the atmosphere for such an event is severely lacking outside of the introduction. The audio in the game needs to be overhauled as crowd noise is very dull. This would be a headline feature that people would be interested in—improved crowd noise

Edited November 4, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[FM1000]

In defence of the mods, any criticism of the game is not removed and it's in this thread.

The reason the game is in this state is the development cycle seems to be too short for the complexity that is the ME.

If I was head of SI I would probably increase the dev team for the ME ( probably also hire myself in that team ) and to offset cost I would trim the fat at other teams.... because the heart and soul of this game is the ME (and the graphics, in 2022 you cannot sepperate the two )

But hey, this is just like my opinion (man) 

[Ferocious289]

47 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Despite the graphical talk of the game, one aspect of the game that is often overlooked is the audio. Added music to the Champions League has been a significant advancement in this area, but unfortunately, the atmosphere for such an event is severely lacking outside of the introduction. The audio in the game needs to be overhauled as crowd noise is very dull. This would be a headline feature that people would be interested in—improved crowd noise

Thankfully there is a audio mod, i know you don't like the commentary but it's ten tiimes better than listening to the dulll drone like neutral sounds embedded into the game to the point you have to turn the sound off because there is no point

[sporadicsmiles]

7 hours ago, gunnerfan said:

“Wokeness” comes to FM. Sigh.

Pathetic comment. Grow up.

[Troels Jensen]

Does this make sense? My offer (which was rejected):

What he accepted:

Because:

Benefit how?

[janrzm]

21 hours ago, turgi said:

Quite amazing how every year it returns with issues that had been fixed before.

I want to ask people with more experience of game development. What is the issue in SI’s workflow that enables or increases the risk of this. The fact that even when an issue gets resolved you can’t take it for granted it’s gone for good has troubles me forever.

[Ferocious289]

3 red cards in 3 games without stuck in instructions.

[gunnerfan]

1 hour ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Pathetic comment. Grow up.

Nothing pathetic about it at all. The notion that we must abolish gender-based pronouns is silly. I have no issue with referring to a male person (or a person who identifies as male) as "he", or referring to a female person (or a person who identifies as female) as "she". 

Edited November 4, 2022 by gunnerfan

[themadsheep2001]

5 hours ago, ajw10 said:

What an embarrassing post

The vast majority of people who use the word "woke" actually have no idea what its specific context means, they just parrot it blindly. Given the original context arose from emancipated African-American slaves (I am awoken - to be aware of the injustice around them and that being held as slaves was not just the natural order of things), there's something darkly ironic about overwhelmingly white people taking something created by black people, erasing it's original meaning and co-opting it into something else. History repeats...

[janrzm]

22 minutes ago, Marko1989 said:

I have no idea why have these guys even pre-ordered the game when they knew there will be no huge improvements and fixes. And then they brag about how they refunded the game. It makes no sense

I can’t speak for others but I can’t not reply to this.

Most people pre-order because it’s discounted.

Most people hold a not unreasonable belief that the game will at least improve and bugs may be addressed.

It is not a brag, it is letting the developer know the reason why. If you think the game is great I'm happy for you. Please respect my opinion in the same way and don’t attempt to belittle it with such terminology.

It makes total sense.

[Johnny Ace]

A few posts have been hidden for the time being, pending further review 

[TheArsenal63]

1 hour ago, janrzm said:

I want to ask people with more experience of game development. What is the issue in SI’s workflow that enables or increases the risk of this. The fact that even when an issue gets resolved you can’t take it for granted it’s gone for good has troubles me forever.

Because it's clear they've never done a clean up of the ME code, they are building on top of legacy code every year without making it easier to update their match engine. That's my best guess, I work in software and there are some truly ancient applications that clients refuse to spend the time and resource needed to refactor it, at least to make it easier to update and fix for future releases.

So this is what you get, spaghetti code where fixing one thing breaks something else that was a dependent. Software and games are not exact comparisons, but to me this is going to continue to happen because the ME is basically a huge balancing act, just imagine a 1000 tiny bandaids to try and make something work together, when really the actual issue is that the code should be refactored to improve adaptability of the AI to adjust to new concepts introduced.

But I assume that they don't want to complicate it too much because they want to keep supporting ancient machines. That's why it takes me a year to introduce even the smallest improvements, and inevitably they break parts of their code that used to work with the old ME, made defending better with less space? Well good luck now because your CB will launch the ball into the air first change they get because they were not coded to take into account what would happen when space is reduced to that extent.

Basic example but imagine that applied to every role. Make the AI able to adapt better to your changes, and you wouldn't have to patch it with all these bandaids.

[michaeltmurrayuk]

2 hours ago, Troels Jensen said:

Does this make sense? My offer (which was rejected):

What he accepted:

Because:

Benefit how?

They have given him an extra year, a yearly rise and a percentage of next sale (and with a lower release clause which is more likely to be activated) which may have changed the overall package, and depending on who you are managing might have just tipped it in their favour, as I'm not sure if the financially benefit is refering to why they rejected you or just that it is the reason they moved from their original club.

Though if you have a save from before he made his final decision you can raise the issue in the bugs forum so it can be looked at.

[janrzm]

48 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said:

A few posts have been hidden for the time being, pending further review 

I understand why you might choose to hide a post that highlighted how people could usurp Steams refund policy. However, I’m very disappointed to see my post hidden when all it did was respectfully outline my reasons for refunding.

[harrycarrie]

1 minute ago, janrzm said:

I understand why you might choose to hide a post that highlighted how people could usurp Steams refund policy. However, I’m very disappointed to see my post hidden when all it did was respectfully outline my reasons for refunding.

Likewise. My last one was hidden also but I fully get why. You put it far more succinctly.

Edited November 5, 2022 by harrycarrie

[Longhorn]

I decided to take a refund on this version of FM for two main reasons: first, the defense is ridiculous in the matches I've played, and I used different teams with good defensive records for this; second, the feedback seems to indicate problems in the development of young players and my play style is to develop young players in long saves.  It is possible that I may revisit this decision in the future if there is reason to do so, but for now I'll continue with my FM 2022 save.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

Every time I play the game and try to squad build I become increasingly angry at the squad planner. It is such a downgrade from squad depth that it may legitimately be the reason why I go back to FM22.

[Sean h]

It is squad depth but a more advanced version,  why do you think its a downgrade  ? I think it great because its easier to understand what players you need and what your squad will look like in a few seasons time 

[alian62]

6 hours ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Despite the graphical talk of the game, one aspect of the game that is often overlooked is the audio. Added music to the Champions League has been a significant advancement in this area, but unfortunately, the atmosphere for such an event is severely lacking outside of the introduction. The audio in the game needs to be overhauled as crowd noise is very dull. This would be a headline feature that people would be interested in—improved crowd noise

The crowd noise actually has become worse . Its another Post FM17 issue.  When scoring at home the crowd noise would erupt but when scoring away it was noticeably quieter . Now there is no difference at all . If any game needed to be refunded it was FM18 with the sub standard graphics and interface .Even when players kicked the ball the sound was out of sync . Im guessing once the female version comes it will change .

[harrycarrie]

19 minutes ago, Sean h said:

It is squad depth but a more advanced version,  why do you think its a downgrade  ? I think it great because its easier to understand what players you need and what your squad will look like in a few seasons time 

As proven by Lollujo, any players on trial have to be, one by one, added to each individual position screen so you cannot automatically judge their worth v position. It is actually easier to narrow your squad screen down to GK, DF etc and compare there, which is the old school way.

 

Also if you ask your assistant to sort your squad depth screen, after you've spent 10 minutes adding in the trial players, they all disappear! Wonderful stuff and well tested.

 

However, on squad depth on previous versions, trial players appeared. So if you're a supremely low club relying on short trials and who to approach, prepare for arthritis in your mouse finger.

 

Also it doesn't exist for International Management, the one place it makes absolute sense.

Edited November 5, 2022 by harrycarrie

[Aoyao]

This confuses me

What is the expected benchmark？

 

[dℍaisa]

10 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

Also it doesn't exist for International Management, the one place it makes absolute sense.

International management? What international management? 

[Mars_Blackmon]

11 minutes ago, harrycarrie said:

As proven by Lollujo, any players on trial have to be, one by one, added to each individual position screen so you cannot automatically judge their worth v position. It is actually easier to narrow your squad screen down to GK, DF etc and compare there, which is the old school way.

 

Also if you ask your assistant to sort your squad depth screen, after you've spent 10 minutes adding in the trial players, they all disappear! Wonderful stuff and well tested.

 

However, on squad depth on previous versions, trial players appeared. So if you're a supremely low club relying on short trials and who to approach, prepare for arthritis in your mouse finger.

 

Also it doesn't exist for International Management, the one place it makes absolute sense.

I can see how that can be a problem for players who bring in 30 trialist at a time.

[janrzm]

1 hour ago, Longhorn said:

I decided to take a refund on this version of FM for two main reasons: first, the defense is ridiculous in the matches I've played, and I used different teams with good defensive records for this; second, the feedback seems to indicate problems in the development of young players and my play style is to develop young players in long saves.  It is possible that I may revisit this decision in the future if there is reason to do so, but for now I'll continue with my FM 2022 save.

Don't mention the "R" word....

[Orange2000]

crowd noice?) Really? 15 years i played cm/fm without sound

[Bosey82]

I don't really post on here, but I've been playing Kevin Toms Football Manager, Championship Manager and then FM. So mentioned for context as I've been around a bit. What I am always amazed at is how many people don't realize or have forgotten that this is actually a GAME, and not real life. And so many just don't seem to enjoy it, but consume themselved by analyzing and scrutinizing the hell out of it. Real football is full of bizarre stuff happening in it every weekend. So play the game, it's quite an amazing product and get fired up about serious matters.

[CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon]

1 hour ago, prot651 said:

Im guessing once the female version comes it will change .

Why would it change then? What a bizarre statement to make.

Almost as bad as woke-gate up top.

As for sound, I can't recall playing the game with sound in the last ten years. Normally listening to something else.

Edited November 5, 2022 by CoffeeFueledCurmudgeon

[phnompenhandy]

43 minutes ago, Bosey82 said:

I don't really post on here, but I've been playing Kevin Toms Football Manager, Championship Manager and then FM. So mentioned for context as I've been around a bit. What I am always amazed at is how many people don't realize or have forgotten that this is actually a GAME, and not real life. And so many just don't seem to enjoy it, but consume themselved by analyzing and scrutinizing the hell out of it. Real football is full of bizarre stuff happening in it every weekend. So play the game, it's quite an amazing product and get fired up about serious matters.

Well, that sounds like an obvious statement, but for many it's not, really. FM crosses that line from a mere entertaining game to a simulation of real life. I got into FM as CM around the same time as you, but if I'd continued to treat it simply as a game, I'd have lost interest two decades ago. The reason I have never played another computer game in that time and keep loving FM is because of the sheer immersion. Let me bore you with what I'm doing right now: in preparation for firing up the full FM23, then installing a soon-to-be-released Scottish lower League file, I'm currently researching my football team, Loch Ness, from here in Cambodia. I've identified all the real players and staff which I will enter using the pre-game editor; I've cut and saved all their faces ready to add. I'm currently on the local school's Facebook page, where I've identified the PE teacher who will be our Head of Youth Development. I've prepared pictures of our 'stadium'. This is all to bring alive a club that will simply bumble about in the Scottish 6th tier. It's not real life - real life is sat on my sofa faffing about on the internet awaiting climate and societal breakdown; it's better than real life.

[Pasonen]

1 hour ago, Bosey82 said:

I don't really post on here, but I've been playing Kevin Toms Football Manager, Championship Manager and then FM. So mentioned for context as I've been around a bit. What I am always amazed at is how many people don't realize or have forgotten that this is actually a GAME, and not real life. And so many just don't seem to enjoy it, but consume themselved by analyzing and scrutinizing the hell out of it. Real football is full of bizarre stuff happening in it every weekend. So play the game, it's quite an amazing product and get fired up about serious matters.

Thank you! Good choice of words. I couldn't said it better. It seems for some this feedback thread gets turned in to a room where you can pickup a sledgehammer and mash some TV's :D. 

[BamBamBam]

4 hours ago, Bosey82 said:

I don't really post on here, but I've been playing Kevin Toms Football Manager, Championship Manager and then FM. So mentioned for context as I've been around a bit. What I am always amazed at is how many people don't realize or have forgotten that this is actually a GAME, and not real life. And so many just don't seem to enjoy it, but consume themselved by analyzing and scrutinizing the hell out of it. Real football is full of bizarre stuff happening in it every weekend. So play the game, it's quite an amazing product and get fired up about serious matters.

They are getting fired up because they love the game. And they want to pay the £35 to own it, but if the changes are pretty bad and the game actually hasn't improved, they have a right to be disappointed. SI want people like you just to blindly pay the money every year.

[Arnar]

4 hours ago, Bosey82 said:

I don't really post on here, but I've been playing Kevin Toms Football Manager, Championship Manager and then FM. So mentioned for context as I've been around a bit. What I am always amazed at is how many people don't realize or have forgotten that this is actually a GAME, and not real life. And so many just don't seem to enjoy it, but consume themselved by analyzing and scrutinizing the hell out of it. Real football is full of bizarre stuff happening in it every weekend. So play the game, it's quite an amazing product and get fired up about serious matters.

Thing is in real life you can work on stuff like your center backs watching the ball go over their head game after game or gk just running out of goal, just stop and letting the attacker score. This happens no matter what level of player you have…

And also this is a thread named: *Official* Football Manager 2023 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread.

Not feedback thread of telling people what to be passionate about or what to do with their time.

[RHKC]

Just realised I've got £18 in my Steam account from a refund ages ago! Feel like I've just bought the game for half price   

[Dagenham_Dave]

9 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

3 red cards in 3 games without stuck in instructions.

The

Game

Is

Not

Binary