*Official* Football Manager 2023 Early Access Beta Feedback Thread

[yuchd]

Anybody feels that IW or W on support duty drop less than before? I mean most of time they just stand high up the pitch and isolate from the back or midfield build up. Is that officially change or just bug?

[david_kax]

hace 49 minutos, RandomGuy. dijo:

Try adding "run at defences" and/or "be more expressive" as team instruction?

My IFs as Santos are constantly cutting in and shooting.

IF/IW cut inside off the ball. With the ball they do it sometimes but the problem comes after doing it, as soon as they see a defender in front, when they have 1 vs 1 situations to dribble they stop and look for the pass or a long shot... You will rarely see them dribbling the defender to enter the box and shoot.

It is not a tactical problem, it is a bug that has been carried over from FM22 that is less bad in FM23 but it continues to distort the play of the IF/IW (also the strikers in counterattack situations and 1 vs 1, stop or long shoot, not dribble) because they are cowardly against the dribble and their options are always: 1 Flee to the wing and back pass , 2 Cut inside and long shot or pass. Cut inside and dribble? No thanks, I'm scared.

[eusebio1]

When starting unemployed with National A licence and Sunday League experience, why is my managerial reputation (5%) as low as starting with no coaching badges? Makes no sense in my opinion

[wazup]

4 minutes ago, eusebio1 said:

When starting unemployed with National A licence and Sunday League experience, why is my managerial reputation (5%) as low as starting with no coaching badges? Makes no sense in my opinion

You have Sunday league experience. How high can a Sunday league players reputation be?

IRL Plenty of coaches in the lower leagues have top badges doesn't mean everyone know about them

[eusebio1]

vor 1 Minute schrieb wazup:

You have Sunday league experience. How high can a Sunday league players reputation be?

IRL Plenty of coaches in the lower leagues have top badges doesn't mean everyone know about them

Got it. But when completing coaching badges in game, each completed coaching badge gives you a reputation boost of 5%, independent of the level you are coaching on. That's why I expected the coaching badge pre-selection to influence reputation as well

[Cam NBH]

6 hours ago, Ferocious289 said:

 

You think that's bad! How many years have the pitch, stadium filler with burger van, ambulance and minecraft level brick walls graphics as well as player interaction limimations been left untouched? The stadium and grass texture is a disgrace to 2023 level gaming, no wonder Zealand felt the need to speak out.

 

 

I would keep all of those if I didnt have to change my taker on every corner and free kick when I change tactics in game 

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, david_kax said:

It is not a tactical problem, it is a bug that has been carried over from FM22 that is less bad in FM23 but it continues to distort the play of the IF/IW (also the strikers in counterattack situations and 1 vs 1, stop or long shoot, not dribble) because they are cowardly against the dribble and their options are always: 1 Flee to the wing and back pass , 2 Cut inside and long shot or pass. Cut inside and dribble? No thanks, I'm scared.

100%. I reported this last year too

It affects all roles that run on the ball

9 times out of 10, a runner on the ball will run around or away from the defender to avoid a 1 vs 1 situation. Very rarely will they directly dribble at an opponent 

It's something I'll report again at some point but I guess it's well known and not something that's easy to fix 

 

[ImDaWeasel]

2 hours ago, Ryanonandon said:

Bin off the intake preview, or make it purely state how many players you're getting from what positions 

Purely cosmetic feature, that is always widely off the mark

Always sign every player from your youth intake and judge them yourself. Staff judgement is next to useless and the constant need to provide more staff feedback every year is making things alot worse.

[DarJ]

2 hours ago, rp1966 said:

This behaviour is all the more disappointing because in FM21 the IF/IWs were responsible for most of the good attacking play - the driving run diagonally into the box from an IF with a shot across goal into the far corner was a signature move of the FM21 ME. Now all the IF/IW seems good for is collecting the ball to pass back to a WB/FB.

I’m happy with how the IW plays now. In FM 21 they were basically the same as IF but a bit less aggressive 

[sonnevillejr]

I noticed that too, hope it’ll be fixed next week

[Jack Joyce]

3 hours ago, zzkeg27 said:

In the modern 4231 formation, like Manchester City's Kevin de Bruyne or Bernardo Silva, there are cases where they play aggressively, moving with Mezzala in the 2CM position rather than the 2DM position.

Isn't it impossible to position the aggressive movement of the CM position in the 4231 formation of modern football?

You would use a 433 with two advanced CM roles, with Rodri behind and IWBs.

[zzkeg27]

10 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

You would use a 433 with two advanced CM roles, with Rodri behind and IWBs.

However, I remember moving like Mezzala in the 2CM position when pep used the 4231 formation at Manchester City in the past.

and

AI uses 2DM in 4231, isn't the DM's positional role too lacking?

Mourinho's past Chelsea's role of a player like Cesc Fabregas is thought to be a move like an advanced playmaker (support), but it is impossible to implement because of the lack of a role.

Edited October 31, 2022 by zzkeg27

[alian62]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

100%. I reported this last year too

It affects all roles that run on the ball

9 times out of 10, a runner on the ball will run around or away from the defender to avoid a 1 vs 1 situation. Very rarely will they directly dribble at an opponent 

It's something I'll report again at some point but I guess it's well known and not something that's easy to fix 

 

How can it be a bug carried over if the Match Engine is brand new ?

[Johnny Ace]

Just now, alian62 said:

How can it be a bug carried over if the Match Engine is brand new ?

It's not brand new 

[HUNT3R]

1 minute ago, alian62 said:

How can it be a bug carried over if the Match Engine is brand new ?

SI don't write 3,000,000 new lines every year. Certain aspects/modules are re-written and/or re-worked or there are features added to it etc.

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, zzkeg27 said:

However, I remember moving like Mezzala in the 2CM position when pep used the 4231 position at Manchester City in the past.

and

AI uses 2DM in 4231, isn't the DM's positional role too lacking?

Mourinho's past Chelsea's role of a player like Cesc Fabregas is thought to be a move like an advanced playmaker (support), but it is impossible to implement because of the lack of a role.

The difference between a 4231 and 433 is fairly arbitrary, to the point where some coaches wouldn't even consider the 4231 a separate formation, instead seeing it as a variant of a 433.

Pep typically plays a 433 system with two advanced central midfielders, which we'd call a 433, not a 4231. But if you wanted to play a 4231 with a roaming DM, then you can use either the roaming playmaker or the segundo volante role.

As for players like Fabregas - it's very common for advanced playmakers to transition deeper as they get older e.g. Fabregas, Cazorla, Eriksen, and you have the DLP + RP roles, so I don't think it's all that limiting.

[(sic)]

13 minutes ago, Jack Joyce said:

The difference between a 4231 and 433 is fairly arbitrary, to the point where some coaches wouldn't even consider the 4231 a separate formation, instead seeing it as a variant of a 433.

I would agree, but in FM it kinda is different. 

There's a difference between using a single vs double pivot, though in Pep's system, like you said, the IWBs come inside.
Another difference is the AM position. In FM, there's a big difference between using roles like CM-A, Mezzala, etc. in a 4-3-3, vs using an AM in a 4-2-3-1. Those roles in a 4-3-3 will often occupy half-spaces, while the AM in a 4-2-3-1 will be all over the place, often sitting in the middle, which you don't necessarily want. And if you make something asymmetrical, the AM will stand right in front of one of the players in double pivot, and you won't have that player in double pivot move more centrally.

Another thing I've found, is that the double pivot players stand way too close to each other, instead of staying a bit more apart. Even on the widest settings, with stay wider PI.

Edited October 31, 2022 by (sic)

[pedrosantos]

19 minutes ago, (sic) said:

Another thing I've found, is that the double pivot players stand way too close to each other, instead of staying a bit more apart. Even on the widest settings, with stay wider PI.

This 

[GOODNAME]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

100%. I reported this last year too

It affects all roles that run on the ball

9 times out of 10, a runner on the ball will run around or away from the defender to avoid a 1 vs 1 situation. Very rarely will they directly dribble at an opponent 

It's something I'll report again at some point but I guess it's well known and not something that's easy to fix 

 

If you have examples please share it with my topic in order to get a fix 

 

[GOODNAME]

In the full realsese do you think in the editor it will be possible to remove the super league new format from 3rd season in the champions league ? 

[Johnny Ace]

4 minutes ago, GOODNAME said:

If you have examples please share it with my topic in order to get a fix 

 

Looks like you've already got a good report in 

I'm more concerned with the dribbling in general, as in all over the pitch 

[themadsheep2001]

I wouldn't change the behaviour of inverted wingers tbh. But I would make IFs on the ball more aggressive on the ball, making their primary drive to run, dribble, failing that then play the ball into the penalty area. Playing the ball back should be more infrequent, and done so in a one two attempt. But I think this is down to a general need for players to be a bit more aggressive across the pitch 

[Rashidi]

i am actually happy with how inverted wingers and inside forwards are playing. Inverted wingers are creating a lot of havoc in my systems by coming inside to cross the ball, and sometimes staying wide. Their interactions with some roles like the mezzala allow me to create the overloads necessary to free up IFs so that they can dribble diagonally into space to score goals.  Yeah been scoring a lot and I am one of those very happy with the way IFs are playing. So while people might have issues with theem dribbling and cutting inside - that is not an issue I am faced with. Yeah its definitely a tactical issue.

[david_kax]

hace 16 minutos, themadsheep2001 dijo:

I wouldn't change the behaviour of inverted wingers tbh. But I would make IFs on the ball more aggressive on the ball, making their primary drive to run, dribble, failing that then play the ball into the penalty area. Playing the ball back should be more infrequent, and done so in a one two attempt. But I think this is down to a general need for players to be a bit more aggressive across the pitch 

Surely you are right and the problem is not in the IW (surely I was wrong about this, sorry), but in the IF in terms of their attitude with the dribble but, more generally, it is a problem of aggressiveness of the attackers on the pitch, probably if the latter were fixed, the dribblers would tend more to the dribble and less to the pass.

I think you make a good reading of the problem, which is not simply a broken role (although it becomes more evident in the IF) but the lack of aggressiveness of the attackers in the pitch who prefer to secure the pass or finish the play with a long shot instead to lose the ball with a dribble.

I hope the developers see it this way and find a solution... I guess impossible for 8N... Hopefully for the winter patch.

[BrightLad5]

Loving the ME and the Animation engine this year. Still don't think that FM23 should be released or classed as a new game, considering everything new is just an update or polishing of existing features. Sports games are released too quickly. The yearly model is stupid.

ME and Animation engine is the saving grace.

[DiggingForOstrich]

18 hours ago, Oliver Roland said:

WHY IS SO DIFFICULT to repair the collums setting in squad screen? My squad screen got somehow broken and I am not able to get it back...every year the same issue. It is easier to finish Rubik's cube than to set up your squad screen....

I am sorry for non constructive feedback, I just lost my nerves trying to set up ONE SINGLE COLLUM RIGHT KEKW

I've raised a bug for it this year, like I raised one last year, and many talked about since FM started, links to this same problem every year are in the bug thread:

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by DiggingForOstrich

[kertiek]

7 hours ago, Aoyao said:

cut inside

how many feints/dribbles? because they running side by side holding hands is not a dribble.

[(sic)]

30 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

Yeah its definitely a tactical issue.

I'll have to heavily disagree with this.  

Players not willing to take on players and not willing to dribble and cut inside on their stronger foot, definitely isn't a tactical issue but the ME one. They did this absolutely fine, a few years ago. Why it's the case now, we can only speculate. My thoughts are that it's intentional, because the defenders simply wouldn't know how to deal with that, for whatever reason. 

Players are afraid of the opposition players. They're afraid to go near them, and they're especially afraid to dribble past them in tighter spaces, most notably in the final third. 

What they often do, is run with the ball, while making sure to avoid coming close to any opposition players. They aren't dribbling, they're just running and kicking the ball. What this results in, is players just running wide, as that's the only area that they deem has enough free space for them to run into. Or alternatively, they will cut inside, but only when they're completely isolated, and when there isn't an opposition player in sight. Basically, when they don't have to dribble past anyone.
For me that often happens around the middle third, but almost never in the final third. The issue in the final third, is that there's often more defenders in the way, so the player is simply unwilling to go inside with the ball, instead choosing to run wide, and then pass it or cross it.

The core issue simply isn't a tactical one.

Edited October 31, 2022 by (sic)

[david_kax]

hace 31 minutos, Rashidi dijo:

i am actually happy with how inverted wingers and inside forwards are playing. Inverted wingers are creating a lot of havoc in my systems by coming inside to cross the ball, and sometimes staying wide. Their interactions with some roles like the mezzala allow me to create the overloads necessary to free up IFs so that they can dribble diagonally into space to score goals.  Yeah been scoring a lot and I am one of those very happy with the way IFs are playing. So while people might have issues with theem dribbling and cutting inside - that is not an issue I am faced with. Yeah its definitely a tactical issue.

They make an excellent off ball play, scores and run towards goal, only when they don't have a defender in front of them, if they have one in front of them, they pass or take a long shot, they don't dribble defender.

Of course, it is possible that the dozens of people who have reported it (and all the youtubers in the world, because in their videos don't exist dribbles inside) and have been playing FM for 20 years and making our IFs dribble inside since the role exists have become stupid and you are a genius of the tactic. We cannot rule out possibilities . Jokes aside, I wish it was that simple as you say.

Anyway, this was already a known issue on FM22 and there were those who kept saying that it wasn't and putting videos of an IF running alone against the goalkeeper (whitout defenders nearby) saying that he was dribbling defenders inside... So nothing surprises me anymore... Cutting inside off ball or cutting inside alone against goalkeeper is not the same that "drive to run, dribble, failing that then play the ball into the penalty area" as themadsheep2001 explained brillantly

[kertiek]

the off the ball movement of wide attackers is fine, they move to the correct positions, go into the box to receive passes or crosses for an easy tap ain and/or finish the plays created by teammates.

the problem with dribbling is when the wide attacking players have the ball on their feet and they very rarely attempt to dribble their way into the box, most  of the time they run side by side with their defenders and when they get to the byline they either pass it back, try a blocked cross or lose the ball. is that the correct representation of players like neymar, mbappe, messi and vinicious jr just to name a few of them? ... i think that one of their characteristics in their play is dribbling and creating chances by winning 1vs1 against defenders, but this means getting past their defeender and leaving them behind, not running side by side holding hands.

am not asking to unbalance the match engine and make them gods of soccer so they break the defence every chance they get, but at least a 2/10 or 3/10 times they should be attempting to dribble their way into the box, but they dont even try to do it and when they kind of do try they dont dribble or use any type of feints, they just run side by side holding hands with the opposite defender glued to them until they dont have any more space to run into and just recycle the ball back to the midfield.

[Choi seung won]

There is currently no detailed motion of the dribble.

In the past, there was a motion like stepover, but it disappeared.

Whether it is a future version or a patch, I hope the dribbling motion is detailed.

There is no dribbling motion, so dribbling is always just speed.

The lack of dribbling motion is closely related to the current lack of dribbling inside forwards.

[nb9]

15 hours ago, albertluque said:

found a major problem with the game. french club, french based changing room, uk plugs. please fix this SI.

That's next years headline feature sorted then - I joke of course. But it's probably close to being true.

[Choi seung won]

53 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

i am actually happy with how inverted wingers and inside forwards are playing. Inverted wingers are creating a lot of havoc in my systems by coming inside to cross the ball, and sometimes staying wide. Their interactions with some roles like the mezzala allow me to create the overloads necessary to free up IFs so that they can dribble diagonally into space to score goals.  Yeah been scoring a lot and I am one of those very happy with the way IFs are playing. So while people might have issues with theem dribbling and cutting inside - that is not an issue I am faced with. Yeah its definitely a tactical issue.

Not a tactical matter at all... Have you ever seen the best dribblers play like Neymar, Mbappe, Salah, Vinicius? They don't try to break through the dribble against opposing defenders. They always run to the backpass or side end and then cross.

[zzkeg27]

This season Hibernian manager Lee Johnson,

The formation using many 2CMs has been removed and changed to 4-2-3-1 DM and 5-2-3 DM.

But no player usually uses DM in a first-tier squad.

There are only three players who can play the role of DM in the squad planner.

 

However, there are too many players who can play the role of CM.

None of the players playing CM in real football are fit to use as DM positions.

 

Hibernian is a team that used 4-2-3-1 and 3-4-1-2 last season, so most of the original players have never played in the role of DM.

Of course, it was a team that didn't need DM based on FM2022 and of course no player plays the role of DM.

The database of famous players will be fed back quickly, Leagues that drop in the rankings do not reflect the player's position.

If you want to remove the tactics that used to use 2CM and use the tactics that use 2DM, don't you need to do something to make these players' positions available as DM?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by zzkeg27

[alian62]

14 minutes ago, nb9 said:

That's next years headline feature sorted then - I joke of course. But it's probably close to being true.

No wonder my game wont load 

[Jack Joyce]

1 minute ago, zzkeg27 said:

Hibernian is a team that used 4-2-3-1 and 3-4-1-2 last season, so most of the original players have never played in the role of DM.

Of course, it was a team that didn't need DM based on FM2022 and of course no player plays the role of DM.

The database of famous players will be fed back quickly, Leagues that drop in the rankings do not reflect the player's position.

If you want to remove the tactics that used to use 2CM and use the tactics that use 2DM, don't you need to do something to make these players' positions available as DM?

 

 

 

 

 

As I've said before, if you see players that regularly play at the base of a 4231/5212 in real life, with no ability to play DM in FM, then it's a research issue to be reported on the research forum.

[Rashidi]

8 minutes ago, csw4228 said:

Not a tactical matter at all... Have you ever seen the best dribblers play like Neymar, Mbappe, Salah, Vinicius? They don't try to break through the dribble against opposing defenders. They always run to the backpass or side end and then cross.

I’ve seen Salah in this game cut inside and twist in and beat 2 players with near control dribbling, so excuse me for saying this . Driver not the car.

[HighFlyingDwarf]

I made a comment in here before about the squad planner but wanted to do a proper comment on the other "headline" features and just some other random points.

Every year these all seem to be less substantiative than the last. Arguably the biggest recent feature hasn't even appeared yet and was done out of season for some bizarre reason (Women's Football). Just going through the features in turn:

1. Recruitment Revamp - NEW Squad Planner & Updated Recruitment Meetings

As I mentioned in my last comment in this thread. The squad planner is so difficult to use with any degree of convenience that it's frankly a waste, and it's also resulted in the removal of the squad depth page, which has regularly been touted as "FM's best hidden feature". The best way to handle this would have been to take the squad depth page, make it the "Squad Planner" and add this to the sidebar. That would have been less galling than what's actually resulted.

For the category of people who use notes and stuff to manage and track their team, I can see why this could appeal, but I don't see how anybody in this bracket would want to do this when it's far less convenient than just, well, using a pen and paper!

Recruitment Meetings? Done once and never again. They're just not relevant enough to matter, especially for experienced players. Add that to the pile that started with press conferences.

2. Match AI & Animations

This match engine is very good, both behaviour and animation wise. There's no need for me to repeat this ad nauseum when others have already pointed it out already, but it is good, barring some minor slip ups that have been aluded to by smarter people than I.

AI manager behaviour is just something that can be touted with no real evidence to back it up. This used to be something that came under the "1000's of minor fixes" moniker. You made the core of your game better. Bravo.

3. Official UEFA Club Competition Licenses

I've had more exposure to the Football League branding which has had some nice touches, but the Champions League stuff all looks very nice. I don't blame SI for touting this as more licenses and recognition is a good thing.

4. Supporter Confidence

A good idea, poorly executed (again).

Anybody with a long enough memory will remember the supporter profiles from FM Live. There they worked because it was relevant to your financial income and min maxing corporate fans felt faintly ironic given the soullessness of such an endeavour when considering the real life game.

Here, it seems to be completely irrelevant. It's definitely something to build on for sure, but the only time I've ever had any real engagement with it so far was when the fans arbitrarily decided we needed to get promoted when the board were simply hoping we'd stay up (I'm doing Dafuge, so naturally, we're not a powerhouse, and it made no sense, and the fans adored me for even getting them to where they were in any case. Immersion breaking.).

Other problems with this are present, namely that I first I realised that this was the case was in the competitions screen, but there's only one expectation shown there and it doesn't seem to be consistently the supporter expectation or the board. The lack of communication or clarity on this is a real problem, and echos around the implementation of this in general.

Summed up, this is something which has been added and has the bones of a good idea and can be built on, but it's been added without any consideration as to the other areas where the board/fan expectations are relevant, and it simply isn't dynamic enough to really care about at this stage.

5. Dynamic Manager Timeline.

Spoon feeding people who don't have an imagination. FM is all about "internal narrative" in the same way as another very good game series described here. We don't need stuff like this, and it's certainly insulting to tout it as being some sort of headline feature. The biography page is sufficient, and far better!

6. International Management

Just another voice to the chorus. Even forgoing an overhaul, at the very least, basic features implemented at a club level need to be introduced to the national game. This was a major miss in a World Cup year.

7. Graphics

I feel the need to defend the in game graphics on principle, in that FM has never been a work of art and most people have never given that much thought.

That being said, I do have to highlight the alarming backslide in both match graphics, environmental diversity of stadiums and face gen even from iterations in the distant past. There's a comparison on reddit between both the match engine and facegens over the past ten years. In both cases they either look the same or look to have gotten worse over time. This simply can't be acceptable in an age where we're increasingly blurring the line between real and fake graphics.

We literally have space age technology that allows for generated portraits of people who look indistinguishable from the real deal, yet there seems to be an insistence to continue down the path of horrible looking 3D graphics, which have barely improved (or arguably gotten worse) over the past half a decade. Even worse, on a yearly basis this is touted by senior SI staff as being some sort of technological marvel. It's nothing short of bemusing.

(Side note, the in match interface originating in FM21 is still a horrible anti PC gamer monstrosity, but that's one of the many sacrifices at the altar of the tablet and console market. Small hint, there's a reason why Windows 8's touch start menu was a failure)

And that leads me nicely onto...

8. Manager Creator Accessories

Something so stupid and ultimately irrelevant that sends me into a complete red faced rage.

I defy any SI employee to try and claim that this is intuitive or good to use. I actually had to go back and check it was as bad as it was when I first spun up the game, and it is. Let me try to explain the thinking of someone who's never used this before.

- My new manager has a ring on. I want to remove this.
- I press the ring button. This takes me to a screen with two hands, one with no rings, one with a ring and "Applied" above it. What does this represent? Presumably, because humans have two hands, one represents the hand without and the other the hand with the ring. So I press the hand with "Applied" and the ring on.
- This page takes me to a page with a hand selection and rings on all the fingers. Okay, a bit finicky, making it a bit difficult here but I shall persevere. I choose the hand with the ring on and press the finger that the ring is on. There is no applied header above this option. Nothing happens when I press it.
- I press cancel, because that doesn't seem to do anything. This takes me back to the main manager creation page. I go back into the ring page. I select the other hand button
- Again I get a hand selection and no rings on any fingers. I select the hand and finger that I don't want a ring on. FINALLY IT'S REMOVED.

Even worse, this is duplicated with the other accessories like watches. So someone actually thought "Yes, this system works so well, that we actually want to replicate it for multiple different elements".

We literally have an entire galaxy of games that do character creation REALLY WELL. They're called RPG's, and Football Manager, arguably, falls into this category. What is wrong with just having a single button that applies the accessory and removes it if you press it again. It is absolutely baffling, and it's seriously ironic given that the attire section seems to work perfectly fine on the principle of a single press to apply a uniform.

More seriously, this is so unintuitive, that it makes people think "If you can't even do this right, how are we going to trust you on the other more important stuff" which leads to stuff like the Squad Planner and Supporter Confidence features being incomplete, or inoperable. I'm not naive enough to think that the team on the manager creator is necessarily responsible for other areas like this, but it makes you think.

Summary

SI doesn't have to worry about my money. I have a good amount of disposable income and time to make FM and gaming my hobby, and to play it yearly as I have done since I first started properly playing in 2001. Reviews and ratings in FM's case, a virtual monopoly of the market, is irrelevant. The expectation, amongst a hardcore and dedicated fan base, is based on what has been built up over the years within the progression of the game and its development, much in the same way as a football club itself funnily enough!

The people that you need to worry about are the people who are looking at this game and saying "This is the same thing as last year, with some irrelevant additions, I'm just going to continue my long save from last years game". This has run through my mind more than once, and it's entirely valid in the middle of a cost of living crisis in the UK, (probably) FM's biggest market, for people to be questioning the choice to buy this years game.

Overall, FM23 is average to fairly good, with some alarming signs of further downwards trends in certain features. That's a real shame, because the match engine is probably nailed on as one of the best of recent times.

[Aoyao]

16 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

I’ve seen Salah in this game cut inside and twist in and beat 2 players with near control dribbling, so excuse me for saying this . Driver not the car.

like this way

[david_kax]

hace 16 minutos, Aoyao dijo:

like this way

Very little happens. When it happens it is usually far from the area. It almost never happens in the last third. Just because it happens once doesn't mean there isn't a problem... The problem is that dribblers try to dribble a lot less than they should. We are not saying that they never do it, but that they abuse the pass or the cross when their natural tendency should be to dribble the defender. They try little, very little 

And... Running with the ball inside is not exactly the same as dribbling... But neither of them do it enough, just rarely.

[Merigold_]

Just one thing I was disappointed about FM23 is that there is no new roles.

Making new tactics with new roles was my favourite game-play. Enganche,Wide playmaker, Wide CB gived me lots of joy.

 

For example I still want to make player-role like 18-19 frenkie de jong at FM

I think De jong should be a playmaker, So I tested deep lying PM(D), deep lying PM(S), roaming PM

But none of these could play like De jong.

Do you have any plan to add new roles at FM24?

[Johnny Ace]

The problem for me is the dribbling 1vs1 in close quarters 

When the player has a load of space to dribble into, that's fine because they can just run around or past the defender, this tends to happen in deeper areas of the field 

When 1vs1 in close quarters, the dribbler is often sent wide, they don't dribble inside because of the traffic or beat their man to advance the ball

Same in and around the box, tricky players shy away from 1vs1 situations and I agree, they look scared of the defender 

I did see a player 1vs1 beat another with an awesome shimmy animation on the counter so I'm not saying they don't exist, they're just very rare 

This lack of dynamic dribbling, was the same in FM22

[(sic)]

And to add further to this point, the dribbling itself is almost non-existent.

Quick changes of pace, quick changes of direction, tricks, flicks, skills... nope.

Instead dribbling just boils down to the player running forward with the ball. So when there's no space to go to, players don't know what to do. Well, they do know, they just try to find a pass, or just cross it into the box.

Edited October 31, 2022 by (sic)

[Nahuelzn]

After playing now a fairly decent amount of games... I can't see the improved AI Managers. I played in full highlights, extensive or key. Yes, sometimes they try an specific flank or press up a little higher, but nothing that much different from FM22. I would say that is even less reactive seems it seems to use only 2 or 3 tactics and that's all.

But maybe it's me and would like to know what everyone thinks.

[Aoyao]

24 minutes ago, david_kax said:

Very little happens. When it happens it is usually far from the area. It almost never happens in the last third. Just because it happens once doesn't mean there isn't a problem... The problem is that dribblers try to dribble a lot less than they should. We are not saying that they never do it, but that they abuse the pass or the cross when their natural tendency should be to dribble the defender. They try little, very little 

And... Running with the ball inside is not exactly the same as dribbling... But neither of them do it enough, just rarely.

It just happened

[akkm]

1 hour ago, (sic) said:

I'll have to heavily disagree with this.  

Players not willing to take on players and not willing to dribble and cut inside on their stronger foot, definitely isn't a tactical issue but the ME one. They did this absolutely fine, a few years ago. Why it's the case now, we can only speculate. My thoughts are that it's intentional, because the defenders simply wouldn't know how to deal with that, for whatever reason. 

Players are afraid of the opposition players. They're afraid to go near them, and they're especially afraid to dribble past them in tighter spaces, most notably in the final third. 

What they often do, is run with the ball, while making sure to avoid coming close to any opposition players. They aren't dribbling, they're just running and kicking the ball. What this results in, is players just running wide, as that's the only area that they deem has enough free space for them to run into. Or alternatively, they will cut inside, but only when they're completely isolated, and when there isn't an opposition player in sight. Basically, when they don't have to dribble past anyone.
For me that often happens around the middle third, but almost never in the final third. The issue in the final third, is that there's often more defenders in the way, so the player is simply unwilling to go inside with the ball, instead choosing to run wide, and then pass it or cross it.

The core issue simply isn't a tactical one.

Actually this is spot on...there's a general issue where players struggle to operate in tight spaces/lack of space/in traffic/when confronted by players close by. Of course in real world football its tricky but not as tricky as in FM and the simulation isn't properly capturing players ability to operate in tighter spaces and in close proximity of players for dribbling/passing/receiving the ball and even for players to select a pass to a player with player/s on him.

Players are very reluctant to dribble into traffic or as you say once closer to people as then it's a turn & pass outside/lay off or generally not try and take on players especially inside and need too much space identified to run into or they won't bother. 

Its similar as I alluded to in tight areas for players to pass into and its especially noticeable sometimes in central areas where this year we see that DMs usage can provide serious blockage to that area so play won't even be attempted there so players will choose to go long or wide too deep and too early in FM to avoid traffic and larger spaces are identified as a higher value/easier pass therefore pass decision making will select this rather than operate TIs/PIs to play through the middle at least as a style...yes it is and should be harder but if players will avoid this the way they do in FM then this a core issue to the engine not allowing it to at least be attempted as a style. It often then gives a sense of a user's team playing on the pitch be disconnected to its tactical inputs.

If my team attempts it and keeps failing I should address that tactically or with personnel...ie signing more creative/technical players who can operate in the tight spaces and move around and find small pockets of space and thread short passes along the ground to create chances and openings directly or in passages of play.

At times it seems idenfication of space in FMs 3D modelling doesn't reflect real world abilities to operate in said tight spaces and too much space is what FM needs to identify as a trigger to pass/move/dribble into. FM may need to re tune this decision making to identify smaller spaces and close proximity of others as being ok/good decision making and not a deterrent to passing/moving/dribbling where currently it can deter all of that too much.

Adding in the welcome introduction this  year of the chaos factor/battling in midfield and pressing factors this means ability for players to operate in tighter spaces should be at a very high level but the dearth of space in the middle has meant play gets directed too wide or too long too quickly and that possession game that requires rich movement and quality pass decision making isn't currently operating as well as it should. I've seen it in previous versions of FM where higher pressing and congestion on central areas knocks out the ability to play through there too much.

A 're calibration' of how 3D space is calculated may be required to allow better play to unfold ie reduce larger identification of space required to operate in...not really sure but this would obviously help to identify how players identify and make good decisions then whether to pass/move/dribble.

Obv not entirely sure but SI will know more. I've seen SI enable better central play/dribbling before in tricky circumstances so all going well they will be able to do this again for FM23...ideally on release as well. It won't be easy but I'm sure providing as many examples of all of this will help them

[andu1]

9 minutes ago, Nahuelzn said:

After playing now a fairly decent amount of games... I can't see the improved AI Managers. I played in full highlights, extensive or key. Yes, sometimes they try an specific flank or press up a little higher, but nothing that much different from FM22. I would say that is even less reactive seems it seems to use only 2 or 3 tactics and that's all.

But maybe it's me and would like to know what everyone thinks.

I reported on the bugs forum that they don't start their second pref formation at all... Maybe you could also add your examples there...

 

[david_kax]

hace 5 minutos, Aoyao dijo:

It just happened

Again... It happens, it doesn't happen enough.

Uploading 1, 2 or 3 videos taking advantage of the few times that happens and saying that there is no problem is cheating because it is easier than uploading the 30 matches that I have seen where it does not happen enough or the dozens of times that I see a dribbler standing scared whitout dribbling in front of his defender in a 1v1 situation.

[KamyKaze]

8 minutes ago, Aoyao said:

It just happened

It didn't. He run to the line, turned back and then when he had huge space he run inside. He didn't actually dribbled past his opponent.

 

Weird thing is my CMs, specially the Mezzalla with Drible More PI is actually dribling to get out of tight spaces. So it's not an issue of players can't do that, is a they don't want to.

[Aoyao]

cut cut and cut

Edited October 31, 2022 by Aoyao