FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[CaptainPanty]

Honestly, i may understand all the fuss about the match engine graphic, but hoping to see Miles to step down from Sigame is going to far.

 

[kingjericho]

I don't think anyone necessarily wants to see him out, but perhaps stop announcing regen faces and fan confidence as "headline features". The game has stalled in recent years

[CaptainPanty]

il y a 1 minute, kingjericho a dit :

I don't think anyone necessarily wants to see him out, but perhaps stop announcing regen faces and fan confidence as "headline features". The game has stalled in recent years

I said that because i saw these messages in this thread and twitter. Miles said multiple time his twitter account is his personnal account and not FM marketing account.

[andu1]

3 hours ago, XaW said:

No, they don't, and playing a few years into the future makes that very obvious. For me the number one issue in the game is far away from the graphics, and rather into the core of the game. Manager AI in squad building is just not good enough, so when you go 10+ years into a save it becomes easy mode. Now, for me I'd rather they didn't spend a penny on the graphics and rather concentrate on the things OFF the pitch. Such as squad building, AI transfer logic, making Dynamic Youth Rating even more viable, all the things that make the world much more immersive for longer term saves.

And I understand I might go against the grain of a lot of people, at least in this thread where graphics seems to be a key point for a lot of people. But for me personally, if FM23 had been photorealistic amazing graphics but no change to the stuff I mentioned I'd be very disappointed. I'd probably view it for a few matches and put it back on 2D and then sulk about the lack of improving the game outside of the match. If it's not clear yet, I don't care at all about how the match _looks_, that's not to say I don't care about matches, I really want the game to work as a free flowing match and _feel_ like I'm tactically watching a real match.

I was really excited for F1 Manager, but had a look on a few let's plays and some of the logic of the AI drivers there made me just drop the whole thing and go back to Motorsport Manager for my racing manager itch. If F1 Manager was real life every driver who got a blue flag would get a penalty, because I've never seen a driver ignore a blue flag like that! I actually got angry at watching other people play, so that's a hard pass for me!

So for me I'd say that the FM22 ME and graphics could stay just as it is and SI could spend the rest on implementing a more immersive football world where things like the World cup would be as big a thing as it is in real life, making sure the AI is giving the user a battle for signings, that teams are trying to build well balanced squad based on club culture and staff tendencies, that changes from save to save to create a whole new world each time you start a save where things are drastically changed based on happenings in each save. THAT would be my dream for the future of FM.

A big problem that few have addressed to SI and me being one of them was the drop in quality of Newgen Managers created by the game. They lack tactical flexibility and their attributes are often so randomized that its impossible to find one as good as AI Klopp or Pep. This is one of the reasons the game becomes so easy. I hope they improved the generation for AI managers and make their attribute distribution comparable to starting managers

[Siven]

Anyone know if we can turn off the terrible looking headshot for our manager and just use a photo or blank head?

Dont have FM22 installed and not played in a while to check.

[DJ Sir Matthew]

My biggest beef with FM isn't that there are so many inbox items and/or meetings, my beef is that you can't turn most of them off. They are forced down your throath, unless you holiday till next match and then just put all inbox items to "Read" which i've seen many veteran FM'ers do. That and the intermittent processing stops happening for no reason at all, even when you toned it down in the preferences. 

The game keeps feeling sluggish that way. Or like some mentioned, it feels like "Work". Maybe it's SI desire to simulate the life of a English football manager, but imho they are driving it too far and should limit it to only the fun stuff or at least allow players to limit the interaction to what that player finds fun. I for one want a game simulating the game of football, not a simulation of the work life of a football manager. 

[dresden]

2 minutes ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

My biggest beef with FM isn't that there are so many inbox items and/or meetings, my beef is that you can't turn most of them off. They are forced down your throath, unless you holiday till next match and then just put all inbox items to "Read" which i've seen many veteran FM'ers do. That and the intermittent processing stops happening for no reason at all, even when you toned it down in the preferences. 

The game keeps feeling sluggish that way. Or like some mentioned, it feels like "Work". Maybe it's SI desire to simulate the life of a English football manager, but imho they are driving it too far and should limit it to only the fun stuff or at least allow players to limit the interaction to what that player finds fun. I for one want a game simulating the game of football, not a simulation of the work life of a football manager. 

Certainly, one feature that would improve my FM experience greatly right now is "Go on holiday, but stop when a player is unhappy". Because right now I want to skip 2 weeks of pointless email dross, but if one player wanted a playing time meeting at that point you'd come back to a transfer crisis. In other words, the email/meeting bloat is so bad that the most helpful 'feature' would be to help skip most of it.

There are many different ways to simulate a football manager. The game already decides not to simulate other aspects because they wouldn't be fun or would be too different a game. Take player happiness. We know that managing players' feelings is a huge part of the modern manager's job. Fine. But as a customer, I don't enjoy their solution of repeatedly clicking 4 submenu buttons to pass on a generic 'well done' every other week hundreds of times per playthrough - especially because there's not much ingame feedback that makes you feel that something has changed in your playthrough because you have a hard-ass reputation or your players all have crybaby personalities, etc. It just feels like slamming the frowning face in an airport satisfaction terminal again and again.

[FM1000]

I think the ME is the only corner of FM where I think there are improvements every year, not major improvements but not minor either.

Everything else that is in the game feels like it's stuck in the past, it looks like something from a game from 15 years ago...

Championship Manager 01 was more immersive with the various screens from football stadiums and pitches than the latest version of FM...

Simply because in CM you are not asked the same 5 questions every press conference, players won't cry for a new contract when they have 4 years remaining etc...

Instead of press conferences and interaction with players to make you feel more immersed it's the opposite...

Instead of the 3D graphics to make you more immersed it's the opposite....20 years ago these graphics would be mind blowing, can anyone imagine Championship Manager with today's ME graphics?

But today in 2022 the graphics look worse than any football game from 15 years ago....

[2feet]

11 minutes ago, DJ Sir Matthew said:

My biggest beef with FM isn't that there are so many inbox items and/or meetings, my beef is that you can't turn most of them off. They are forced down your throath, unless you holiday till next match and then just put all inbox items to "Read" which i've seen many veteran FM'ers do. That and the intermittent processing stops happening for no reason at all, even when you toned it down in the preferences. 

The game keeps feeling sluggish that way. Or like some mentioned, it feels like "Work". Maybe it's SI desire to simulate the life of a English football manager, but imho they are driving it too far and should limit it to only the fun stuff or at least allow players to limit the interaction to what that player finds fun. I for one want a game simulating the game of football, not a simulation of the work life of a football manager. 

Yeah the emails have become unbearable.

 

[Malicious Penguin]

3 hours ago, dresden said:

I agree so much with this that I've reset my login to post (been playing & reading for years but never really posting here).

It's not just one feature or another, but it's been a consistent general trend last few years: more meetings, almost none of them any fun at all. If SI say that X feature is too hard / costly and can't happen for a while, alright, that's one thing - but it's another thing to see resources & strategy actively go into beefing up FM as a soul-crushing work simulator.

Each year I've become more and more used to simply ignoring various features, many of them new, to retain/improve my playing experience. No press conferences ever. No tunnel interviews ever. Skip reading 90% of the emails in the inbox. And make no mistake, this isn't coming from the typically "casual" segment of the player base - people like me are people who've played FM for a long time and often spend a lot of time learning the ins and outs of the game, people who aren't wanting FM Lite or whatever it's called. It's got nothing to do with 'streamlining' or 'making it easier to understand', it's about the fact that these meetings and emails usually don't add anything useful or fun. I'm fine with playing a difficult and complex RPG, for example, but not if it wants me to file tax forms to sell my loot.

This.

FM needs to decide whether it wants to be a game or a simulation - it's at a point where it can't be both.
 

[XaW]

3 hours ago, janrzm said:

So do I, mostly. I guess It doesn't make it right that we choose to ignore it because its not good enough or as good as we'd like though? After all SI opted to implement the 3D match environment and we pay for that when we buy the game. On a personal level I think it's fine to be not bothered about a particular aspect of the game and elect not to use it but, I always have in mind that what's not important to me will certainly be important to someone else. Hence why I won't bag a feature or dismiss it on the basis that I personally don't use or need it.

Beyond that, if we assess FM from a collective viewpoint we could look at every aspect of the game and then find any number of people that aren't bothered about a particular facet. On that basis we could then put forward a case that there is no need to develop anything because somewhere there are people that aren't bothered about all the elements.

The graphics in the game aren't as good as they should/could be and the sooner there's an open and honest conversation about that between the customers and SI the better for all concerned. 

Well, I don't play 2D because the 3D isn't good enough, I'll probably play 2D as long as it's possible, simply because I enjoy it far more than any amount of realism in 3D. Call me old fashioned (and I probably am), but I just enjoy it more. I usually put 3D on for my initial save on each version, but then go back to 2D within a short while. And that is the key here, while some think the graphics are the most important aspect, there are others, like me, who can't be bothered by them. Then there are people like me who really think the AI squad building should be improved while others don't care at all. So SI have to cater for everyone, but I expect they want to do the things that most people want. I know they do surveys and follow both the forums and social media and probably much more than anyone outside SI knows to track that. I also think it's important to point out that the ones on this forum might not be the average FM player, so while we think X, Y, or Z is key, that might not be true for the masses.

Well, I think the game has most of the features it needs, strictly speaking, but I would rather see them enhanced or improved upon (graphics included) than bring in new features. However, look around these feedback threads about how many others complain about the LACK of new features. "You call this headline features" blah blah blah. People obviously want more stuff other than improvements, so once again, another part of the game were I am not in the majority it seems...

I agree, the graphics aren't as good as they should be, but I also don't think that's the most important part of the game.

And just to be 100% clear, since the confusion is there at times, I'm not employed by SI, nor am I told to walk a company line or defend the game. As I've stated here and in other threads, I'm critical of the things I feel are lacking, but graphics is not a big issue for me personally.

1 hour ago, andu1 said:

A big problem that few have addressed to SI and me being one of them was the drop in quality of Newgen Managers created by the game. They lack tactical flexibility and their attributes are often so randomized that its impossible to find one as good as AI Klopp or Pep. This is one of the reasons the game becomes so easy. I hope they improved the generation for AI managers and make their attribute distribution comparable to starting managers

I'm inclined to agree here, but my issue is more on how unbalanced the squads become 15-20 years into the future. Too many in certain positions and too few in others, that type of stuff. So I'm constantly reporting it to SI as bug reports, and I've seen improvements over the years, just not enough to satisfy my (perhaps too high) demands.  

[Mars_Blackmon]

31 minutes ago, Malicious Penguin said:

This.

FM needs to decide whether it wants to be a game or a simulation - it's at a point where it can't be both.
 

I’m here because I want a simulation. Otherwise I would play fifa and just play CPU vs CPU like I did prior to finding text sims. I find joy in loading up every league building a large world and interacting in it. If the game with from match to match, I would personally get bored quickly especially with its current graphics.

[grade]

5 hours ago, grade said:

To be fair, after reading this... it that they're unequivocally and completely guarantee my concerns about FM in general. SI is comfortable with the success of the game and the speed development of the game of these years (specially of recent years). Sure that is their prerogative, plan or Master plan or whatever you wish to call it. They are also very comfortable with the amount of communication with this community they have. Again, their views...

One I cannot simply agree with and i  will not bother everyone with the details, since I explained myself, quite often. If you do change your ways and communicate more with your official community, is a welcome change, but if its not... things will only get worse, as people will loose interest in coming here. If wasn't for especial part of this community, moderators, and users who take piece of their time to help answer and explain question and doubts of other users, a thing that should be your job, these forums would be dead... Dead as door nail. While you state that you closely read these forums and make sure it's amplified into the studio, let me take that with a grain of salt. The true heart and soul of these forums are people like Rashidi, krlenjushka, Lucas, Nine-iron and michaeltmurrayuk and plenty of others, who's name my mind can recall right now (sorry).

To finalize... again, I thank you to take the time to post here, but don't take me wrong when I say I will take with grain of salt. Things in my view, aren't ok, they are far from ok, I for one fed up with these political correct answers... there is severe lack of communication with this community, Not okay with overall development of the game, which I believe can be far better then it is today. and if you don't see that, i start to doubt how much of this community your colleagues do actually read or even listen to you, Neil.

Again Neil, highly respect you, but I starting not believing this corporate response.

Once more, feel free to disagree with me :P

 

So early today, made some nasty comments regarding to Miles, i would like to apologize to him and this community. My comments about Miles are the sort of thing that made devs not participate in these forums and its the complete opposite of what i wish to happen here. More interaction between us and devs. My dislikes towards to certain people here or any of SI devs, will remain private.

3 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

This.

FM needs to decide whether it wants to be a game or a simulation - it's at a point where it can't be both.
 

I think it needs to be both... a Simulation Game. Where you experience the life as manager and also has bits that make the game more fun. The game should be about genuine what makes football, football, not what is portrayed in real life, this money focus world we live in.

it won't never be truly simulation of real life, because I think legally Si can't do it, because it mean, they also should place the game the darkest side of real life football.

[FrazT]

All users have the right to have their views about the game and to express them openly on the forums.  I would however take this opportunity to remind everyone about the basic rules of constructiveness as laid out in the forum rules and ask that all users abide by these guidelines.

https://community.sigames.com/forums/topic/509042-providing-feedback-and-engaging-with-others/

 

[janrzm]

A positive. Just listened to The Football Manger show on The Athletic while mowing the grass……really enjoyed listening to Andrew Sinclair from SI explain the new features with great detail and clarity. You should be able to listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

Any of these links should work you'll just have to endure ads if you're not a subscriber.  

Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/id1539030946

The Athletic - https://theathletic.com/podcast/237-the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/

Spotify - 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by janrzm

[2feet]

13 minutes ago, janrzm said:

A positive. Just listened to The Football Manger show on The Athletic while mowing the grass……really enjoyed listening to Andrew Sinclair from SI explain the new features with great detail and clarity. You should be able to listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

any chance of a quick summary?

[janrzm]

4 minutes ago, 2feet said:

any chance of a quick summary?

It would be defeating the object, he does a great job and I wouldn't do it justice..... 😂 It's over half an hour long. Here's a link though if that helps - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/id1539030946

Edited October 16, 2022 by janrzm

[DementedHammer]

30 minutes ago, janrzm said:

A positive. Just listened to The Football Manger show on The Athletic while mowing the grass……really enjoyed listening to Andrew Sinclair from SI explain the new features with great detail and clarity. You should be able to listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll have a listen later today when I get home. 

[Powermonger]

5 hours ago, Malicious Penguin said:

This.

FM needs to decide whether it wants to be a game or a simulation - it's at a point where it can't be both.
 

I would take this a step further, is the intention of FM to be a glorified spreadsheet, a simulation or is to be a role playing game?

To me the last option is what FM is trying portray but I feel FM does this poorly, there are no ongoing ‘events’ or narrative that feel meaningful. The actions I make as a manager or how games play out do not affect how the game gets presented to you.

The only other game I play a lot is Crusader Kings series which is very event driven and emphasises role playing and driving a narrative, but at its core it’s just painting the map with your colour as you conquer new territory. FM feels like you are just painting the map with your colour, the story narrative and events feel missing. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Powermonger

[GreenTriangle]

It seems that FM will have to be the most complex game on the market. It will have to have very good graphics ("not quite like FIFA, but close to it"), a very complex and realistic match engine, a very complex system of transfers and development of players / other characters, an extremely customizable GUI and various other elements that could allow the game to be transformed, at will, into something very similar to any other game that the user likes.
All these very complex systems will have to be able to be used at their maximum capacity in a very simple way, in such a way that the user can fully use them only by making a maximum of 2-3 clicks.

[Tonton_Zola]

On 15/10/2022 at 06:43, Smurf said:

Do you know how seriously people take this? 

I do - if you're on twitter at all - the amount of people who post a picture of their new smart watch, Apple Ultra, Pixel, Samsung - it's a massive market and very personal to people. 

If you want complete immersion you want a full representation of you within the game - and if that brings you closer to being more involved within the game - then whats the harm? 

For me - this feature is useless - never liked the idea of custom building an AI version represenation of myself. I've no - ZERO - interest in this feature. 

But others like it. And if it's important to create that perfect avatar for the game - then go for it. 

Who am I to judge?

Mate seriously it’s okay for you to judge. 

[Smurf]

1 hour ago, Tonton_Zola said:

Mate seriously it’s okay for you to judge. 

It's just a watch on an avatar. I'm not that bothered. It's added. Big deal. 

My judgement... who cares.

 

[Smurf]

16 hours ago, janrzm said:

With respect. This is a massive reach IMO. You appreciate the difference between the actual purchase of a real smart watch and adding an invisible one to your manager avatar in a computer game?

How is it any different to adding a hair style or a beard? I've a good head of hair and a glorious beard. I can represent myself with that as an avatar - so if I've dropped £800 on a glorfied smart watch - why not represent it in game.

I mean, it's a watch added to an avatar in a game that only you play. If you don't want to use it then don't. You're the only one that will probably see it. 

I find the whole 'build an avatar of yourself' superflous anyway to the point that I don't care what accessories you can give the avatar. 

Other people like it though, so I respect that, I repsect that a lot. 

[Smurf]

16 hours ago, el_manayer said:

For you and for 99.99% of people, and if I am wrong, I invite whoever it is to come here and say that you are excited to have a watch in your manager avatar that you can only see before loading the game. That's the thing, even if they did design the watch in a single day, they'd better spend that day's work on doing anything that remotely improves the game. And the other thing that annoys me more is that they announce it like it is actually "exciting". It is not judging, i also like to have a nice avatar, but it should really really really be down on any kind of priority list to add something like that, that you actually don't even see, to a game with so many other graphical needs.

I can only imagine the next features being announced like "Rather excitingly, this year you are able to choose your manager's underwear color!"

Underwear colour could be important, I know a professionall footballer (well he's retired now) who wore the same underwear for every match, his lucky underwear. 

People have their things. If you don't like it - don't use it. 

Others will like it - and there's no need to belittle what they want to do. If they want to add a watch - then add it - it's so simple and so superflous - but who cares. 

I don't  use the avatars in any game. Where I work people have avatars for their Teams meetings, some use their photos, some have built cartoon characters of themselves, some have not. I personally use my initials (the default).

But if other people get a kick out of it - then go for it. 

What's the big deal?

[Choi seung won]

6 hours ago, janrzm said:

A positive. Just listened to The Football Manger show on The Athletic while mowing the grass……really enjoyed listening to Andrew Sinclair from SI explain the new features with great detail and clarity. You should be able to listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

Any of these links should work you'll just have to endure ads if you're not a subscriber.  

Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/id1539030946

The Athletic - https://theathletic.com/podcast/237-the-football-manager-show-by-the-athletic/

Spotify - 

 

 

Can anyone please summarize.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Choi seung won

[b.sinisa]

Its a fact that graphics have been downgraded the managers make some transfers that they don't make and rl and so more the graphics are the least part to make THE main point

[janrzm]

10 minutes ago, Smurf said:

How is it any different to adding a hair style or a beard? I've a good head of hair and a glorious beard. I can represent myself with that as an avatar - so if I've dropped £800 on a glorfied smart watch - why not represent it in game.

I mean, it's a watch added to an avatar in a game that only you play. If you don't want to use it then don't. You're the only one that will probably see it. 

I find the whole 'build an avatar of yourself' superflous anyway to the point that I don't care what accessories you can give the avatar. 

Other people like it though, so I respect that, I repsect that a lot. 

I have already made a feature request for Avatar gold fillings. 

[stevemc]

13 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

Roadmaps are used differently across all industries, but in gaming they often (but not exclusively) tend to cover a combination of improvements and additions to games. 

Here's an example of Epic Games roadmap as an example - https://trello.com/b/GXLc34hk/epic-games-store-roadmap

I love stuff like this, my job is literally building, maintaining and improving live JIRA boards with people and processes. Not sure if you use JIRA internally but this type of roadmap could be built into a real extensive workflow that runs through different departments via Kanban and/or Sprints that all interlock, I've just migrated the company I work for out of a smaller Trello set-up into an extensive  JIRA workflow system and we are reaping the rewards in all areas of the business, seems absolutely ideal for yearly idea generation/iteration, tracking and improvements for FM.

Edited October 16, 2022 by stevemc

[Smurf]

40 minutes ago, janrzm said:

I have already made a feature request for Avatar gold fillings. 

Great. I'll make a request for wedding rings. 

What are we doing here? 

[FrazT]

Ok- this is getting silly now, so lets move on please.

[Bunkerossian]

Seeing as features are being discussed, and SI staff are commenting, I'll ask: what would be the technical requirements to rework and simplify the set piece creation process? In particular, moving on from position-dependent set piece creator to a system that ties set piece roles to actual players, regardless of their positions.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Bunkerossian

[Federico]

21 ore fa, Rashidi ha scritto:

The only thing I can say about meetings, you can say whatever and do whatever you want and never attend them, you hardly get punished.  And that is the only saving grace for the one feature I have hardly engaged with. At least SI didnt make it mandatory for us to choose the perfect approach all the time. If this game ever turned into min maxing the Meeting Manager I would drop it in a heartbeat.

Fair enough. But seeing it from a different perspective, we're then prompted to a large number of screens of absolute uselessness. And this - my opinion - frustrates me enough to push me away and skip anything as fast as I can, if not quit the game.

I click nervously on the "continue" button marking all the news "as read" skipping any meetings, any interviews, any press conference, any report and any complaint (promises, contracts, lack of playtime....) I see. For my tastes this is "Meeting Manager" already.

And "Interview Manager" too. Or "Media Manager". It's not they shouldn't be there. There is just too much.

[XaW]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

Fair enough. But seeing it from a different perspective, we're then prompted to a large number of screens of absolute uselessness. And this - my opinion - frustrates me enough to push me away and skip anything as fast as I can, if not quit the game.

I click nervously on the "continue" button marking all the news "as read" skipping any meetings, any interviews, any press conference, any report and any complaint (promises, contracts, lack of playtime....) I see. For my tastes this is "Meeting Manager" already.

And "Interview Manager" too. Or "Media Manager". It's not they shouldn't be there. There is just too much.

The thing is, you can get a _slight_ advantage doing a few of those things yourself, but you are not punished for ignoring it. So it's there for those who strive for realism, but also not mandatory for those who want to press on to the next match. That is the same for loads of aspects of the game, you can ignore it, but doing it can give you the slightest of edges. It's all based on what you enjoy or not. So for you that might be too much, but for others it's not enough. That's exactly why you have the option to delegate away the stuff you don't like to deal with.

[Double0Seven]

10 hours ago, grade said:

So early today, made some nasty comments regarding to Miles, i would like to apologize to him and this community. My comments about Miles are the sort of thing that made devs not participate in these forums and its the complete opposite of what i wish to happen here. More interaction between us and devs. My dislikes towards to certain people here or any of SI devs, will remain private.

I think it needs to be both... a Simulation Game. Where you experience the life as manager and also has bits that make the game more fun. The game should be about genuine what makes football, football, not what is portrayed in real life, this money focus world we live in.

it won't never be truly simulation of real life, because I think legally Si can't do it, because it mean, they also should place the game the darkest side of real life football.

The thing about Miles is that his social media game is very questionable. He is blunt, cant take mild critiscism, arrogant and doesnt seem to have actual social media awareness. He needs a PR assistant badly. But if this is like any other big company, im pretty sure people dont dare actually bring it up with him and just let him do what he wants unless he is really ruining the sales or something. Would you risk your job calling out how your boss is being an ass on social media if it doesnt really matter for sales? Nah. 

This is not just my opinion, I have seen dozens of people agree with this from different forums. Miles has done brilliant things for this game, but his PR game is definitely terrible. 

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, XaW said:

The thing is, you can get a _slight_ advantage doing a few of those things yourself, but you are not punished for ignoring it. So it's there for those who strive for realism, but also not mandatory for those who want to press on to the next match.

Just a quick, off topic question, but does the AI do sarcasm? I delegate all the media guff to my assistant, and the AI keeps describing me as a 'talkative manager'! Joke, right?

[el_manayer]

Here there was a lot of complaints about graphics, problem is that it is not the only thing. People are molested because complaints are not being heard. The sad true that SI does not want to accept is that, in recent years, most changes to the game have given nothing positive to the experience and, in many cases, have made the game worse. This is not my personal opinion, but rather the general consensus on this forum and in other forums I visit or people I played the game with. Things that come up to my mind rapidly without opening the game, are mostly things that were changed for the sake of "realism", and have miserably failed in making the game more immersive or to escape from that cliche that FM was a spreadsheet simulator. Examples:

* The disappearance of the time bar during matches. It makes 0 sense, and back in the days when this changed, people complained about it. Did SI hear and rectify? Absolutely no. It was just ignored.

* The scatter of players during team talk, to make you "feel" that you are in the dressing room. Guess what? You absolutely don't feel that. It is just annoying. Before, you had a nice, clean list, easily accessible and readable. A huge percentage of the players complained about this. SI yet hasn't considered going back.

* Similarly, the arrangement of questions and answers in press conferences. It only makes the game worse and press conferences even more annoying. People complained, but nothing was done.

* Things like when you move to a different screen with a background of your "office" to have a completely inflexible "conversation" with someone. The same office background picture, no matter where your club is or its economy. It doesn't succeed in making the game more immersive either.

All these examples here are, arguably, wrong decisions that have made the game worse and more annoying, and a huge part of the community has expressed this sentiment on many many occasions. Sometimes I might even forget that these small details, a few years back, were better. The game was genuinely better, and the only thing that keeps the game afloat is that the match engine is, generally, a step forward every year. And it is the most important part of the game, so we keep playing new iterations. But many, many things that were added or changed recently were wrong decisions. I know it is hard to acknowledge your own mistakes, and I have no hope of SI doing it. But it is like that; you only need to play an older game and a newer one to notice. If I could only have the match engine of new games but everything else from older games, I would do it without any doubt.

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying that EVERYTHING that has been added in the last few years is negative or has made the game worse. I did not say such a thing, and many things added recently are interesting and make the game more engaging. However, many others are not, and SI should learn from their own mistakes, acknowledge them, and reconsider some of these decisions in order to have a better overall game. People often say that the opinions expressed here do not represent the whole player base, and that's true. But that doesn't mean that the rest of the playerbase does not agree with things said here. And when people in this forum, reddit, in other active communities like fmsite.net, or even in steam or youtube comments, have the same complaints about the same things... well, that's a general opinion then.

And it makes me sad when someone suggests that there is a trend of "hate" against the games or the company or even Miles himself. That's wrong. Everyone who is here or posting in other forums is someone who cares about the game. The game was and still is a very good game, and we all recognize that and only want the game to be equally good or even better in the future. There will always be different opinions, but if wherever you ask something and >90% of players have the same opinion... then that's the reality. As a company, ignoring it and pretending like every decision, change or addition made the game better is simply the wrong way.

Edited October 16, 2022 by el_manayer

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, Double0Seven said:

I have seen dozens of people agree with this from different forums. Miles has done brilliant things for this game, but his PR game is definitely terrible. 

Lets look at it another way.  Very few people within SI might want to engage with the community, most techies I come across are the last people you'd expect to go out in front of a firing line. Miles isn't forcing anyone becaue it can also be terribly demotivating to face a deluge of questions.  In a game like this where you can never ever make everyone happy, there are always going to be a small group of people who make themselves so loud, its going to be hard to hear anyone else above that. And whoever stands in front of them needs a kevlar jacket, even if they have have fantastic social skills. Eventually,  dealing with people can tax anyone. So Miles instead elects to put himself front and centre because he feels he needs to protect the people who work for him. There are many people who do that, draw the flak and take the flak.  And I doubt they are going to hire a professional PR company to do the job. I remember them doing it once, I struggle to remember anything postiive they did. So Miles does it himself. Does he do a good job? Not always, but he's gonna cop the flak for everyone else.

[aj6658]

 

Seems like the people who have been trying earlier builds are really enjoying it. If the changes to AI and ME are noticeable ill be happy till they bring through the next generation of FM whenever they bring it

Edited October 16, 2022 by aj6658

[pedromexico]

I don’t usually post on here but I often read what peoples opinions are and I have to say it seems a lot of people say the same things and agree on certain areas of the game which has either stagnated or gone backwards! I also agree that the negative of any social platform is always the loudest! 
 

So why can’t there be a poll/questionnaire (with questions we can agree on) things like the post above 

* The scatter of players during team talk, to make you "feel" that you are in the dressing room was better before or is better now  

Better now ———better before

 

Im sure we could find 50 questions from this thread alone which we could take a vote on? I don’t expect si to want to or are able to do all the things the majority want in a year but at least we could see how most of the posters on here feel the game could improve or how the game hasn’t improved and has actually got worse! 🤷‍♂️

 

[Federico]

3 ore fa, XaW ha scritto:

The thing is, you can get a _slight_ advantage doing a few of those things yourself, but you are not punished for ignoring it. So it's there for those who strive for realism, but also not mandatory for those who want to press on to the next match. That is the same for loads of aspects of the game, you can ignore it, but doing it can give you the slightest of edges. It's all based on what you enjoy or not. So for you that might be too much, but for others it's not enough. That's exactly why you have the option to delegate away the stuff you don't like to deal with.

My friend, I'm not talking of being punished or not. I'm talking of how much we waste time on reading and how the game flows and how I see this as a huge malus for FM. I'm pretty sure even the biggest fan of press conferences is completely bored after the second season. I once counted 15 (fifteen!!!) questions in a press conference. Every answer (and there are multiple, forcing me to scroll down the screen to pick what I want) required 2 to 4 (if not worse) lines to read. I'm serious, no kidding. So my point is why to insist on this aspect of the game that basically anyone of us get bored with - from an optimistic point of view - after 3/4 seasons and that inevitably will be skipped/delegated? Why adding local newspaper interviews and what good this brings to the gameplay? Why adding more meetings and more interactions in general if anyone of us will pass them by after few sesons because it's such a boring and repetitive aspect of the game?

I think we all want just more football, better/polished trainings (and I'm still waiting for someone who explains us how they affect our players and for how long), a tactic system that gives us 100% of creativity freedom (included set pieces) and SOME cosmetic stuff. Motorsport manager is fantastic, just like FM07: one random question any now and then and then BOOM let's race!

I feel like I'm loosing the focus on the main subject which is supposed to be football lately. Also that fact that - as said earlier - every FM looks like the previous FM (I just can't believe the only dilemma was which color to pick and associate to purple) doesn't help at all to dive into a new experience. And that all they call "features" in my opinion can be barely classified as "patches". The ME is extraordinary - we all reckon this. There's no other football managing game that can be comparable to FM. But adding a role or a new (one and one only) individual or team instruction or renaming/enhancing what we have already... I'm sorry that's not enough to justify a full price.

It looks like venting but I'm just embittered because of the direction this game took and is driven to

Edited October 16, 2022 by Federico

[GreenTriangle]

1 hour ago, Federico said:

 

In fact, the main problem is not the existence of conferences and meetings in FM, but the insufficient information about their effect. Worse than that, there is a feeling that these conferences and meetings can have only a rather negative effect, and that makes them boring. In fact, absolutely any such interaction should involve possible advantages and possible risks, and the FM player should be informed about most of these advantages and risks. For example, what effect does the fact that a manager has good relations with the mass media ? In real life there are some advantages and also some risks, but are there also in FM ? And what if the manager would be in rather bad relations with the mass media ? Would the game be more difficult ? From what point of view ?

Edited October 16, 2022 by GreenTriangle

[KillYourIdols]

Man, this has all gone downhill in the last week or two. Everyone has an opinion, which is 100% fair, but it's quickly turned into "who can shout loudest the longest".

[SazoJohnno]

I'd really like to type here but the negativity I've seen here in this forum has reached to the level that shouldn't exist. I am sorry for any moderators as well as anyone from SI who have to deal with this. I understand people want to voice their frustration but it needs to be constructive. 

That being said - I cannot wait for FM23 beta to come out and I do hope that there will be a livestream. I am going insane waiting for FM23 already 

[alian62]

18 minutes ago, SazoJohnno said:

I'd really like to type here but the negativity I've seen here in this forum has reached to the level that shouldn't exist. I am sorry for any moderators as well as anyone from SI who have to deal with this. I understand people want to voice their frustration but it needs to be constructive. 

That being said - I cannot wait for FM23 beta to come out and I do hope that there will be a livestream. I am going insane waiting for FM23 already 

There is no negativity ? just people with strong opinions . Ive enjoyed reading them all

[KeiranShikari]

Indeed. Compared to a lot of video game studios I think SI get off pretty lightly. 

They probably laugh at the more extreme opinions because they know there's a 99% chance the guy will be buying the game anyway.

[themadsheep2001]

41 minutes ago, KillYourIdols said:

Man, this has all gone downhill in the last week or two. Everyone has an opinion, which is 100% fair, but it's quickly turned into "who can shout loudest the longest".

There's always been an element of this. And the thing is, that's never really been what SI respond to either 

[Federico]

55 minuti fa, KillYourIdols ha scritto:

Man, this has all gone downhill in the last week or two. Everyone has an opinion, which is 100% fair, but it's quickly turned into "who can shout loudest the longest".

I'm not sure who is shouting the loudest, for what I have seen in this thread the users seem pretty much split in half, but from my perspective FM23 hasn't been welcomed as we all hoped. Users have always been encouraged to give their feedback in a constructive way, something I hope I did, maybe not and I'm sorry if so, and the best way to do it is putting down a post which of course has the possibility to be long to read. I can't see anything more constructive than someone who shows concerns and explains the reasons of those concernes in depth.

This thread hasn't gone downhill, people had expectations and some of them have been disilluded I'm afraid.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Federico

[DMaster2]

19 ore fa, XaW ha scritto:

So SI have to cater for everyone, but I expect they want to do the things that most people want.

So that's why they keep ignoring graphics, regen faces, stadiums, international management, set pieces creator overhaul, etc... despite an overwhelming response from basically any social media for this game?

[DMaster2]

12 ore fa, GreenTriangle ha scritto:

It seems that FM will have to be the most complex game on the market. It will have to have very good graphics ("not quite like FIFA, but close to it"), a very complex and realistic match engine, a very complex system of transfers and development of players / other characters, an extremely customizable GUI and various other elements that could allow the game to be transformed, at will, into something very similar to any other game that the user likes.
All these very complex systems will have to be able to be used at their maximum capacity in a very simple way, in such a way that the user can fully use them only by making a maximum of 2-3 clicks.

The least you should expect for a full price game in 2022...

[DMaster2]

1 ora fa, SazoJohnno ha scritto:

I'd really like to type here but the negativity I've seen here in this forum has reached to the level that shouldn't exist. I am sorry for any moderators as well as anyone from SI who have to deal with this. I understand people want to voice their frustration but it needs to be constructive. 

That being said - I cannot wait for FM23 beta to come out and I do hope that there will be a livestream. I am going insane waiting for FM23 already 

Lmao people have explained what they expect from the game for years now and every years i read the same complaints because those problems (graphics that looks like ps2, ugly regen faces, international management, etc...) keep getting ignored in favor of mostly useless stuff like the watch or new jackets this year and the list of headline features, that once upon a time were real new features are now just either improvement on what was already there (ex. match engine) or a new paint coat of already existing stuff.