FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[-Jef-]

F1 Manager has an absolutely atrocious gameplay and that's coming from someone who preordered and played 20 hours in 2 days. Yes it is pretty and shiny and UI/UX are nice. But you can't have transfers until off season, upgrades are exploitable, game is too easy, tires are mostly the same(no difference between C1 and C5 tires in speed, only degradation), wets are quicker than slicks, drivers dont decline, AI doesnt use overtake ERS nor faster options for tire wear and engine wear (forgot names), they do stupid pit stops, AI doesn't respect blue flags, can't re-lap yourself under safety car, all animations are predetermined and sometimes lockups end up as animation with wheels flying off the barrier... etc

 

ALL essential to the gameplay. It looks pretty. But when every race is sim p1, sim p2, sim p3, get 100% driver set up due to a website (https://f1-manager-calc.vercel.app/), get screwed over in quali due to AI not letting you go on flying lap, go medium - hard with fastest options, overcut everyone, end up higher than should. End the race and develop car using custom sliders cos that's OP. Williams ends up as best team in season two.

 

This is not fun. I'd rather play FM with outdated graphics and gradual improvements because FM already has all the proper stuff in the game. Just need at least fifa 08 graphics. If people have potato pc let them run on 2d.

Edited October 14, 2022 by -Jef-

[(sic)]

10 minutes ago, -Jef- said:

F1 Manager has an absolutely atrocious gameplay and that's coming from someone who preordered and played 20 hours in 2 days. Yes it is pretty and shiny and UI/UX are nice. But you can't have transfers until off season, upgrades are exploitable, game is too easy, tires are mostly the same(no difference between C1 and C5 tires in speed, only degradation), wets are quicker than slicks, drivers dont decline, AI doesnt use overtake ERS nor faster options for tire wear and engine wear (forgot names), they do stupid pit stops, AI doesn't respect blue flags, can't re-lap yourself under safety car, all animations are predetermined and sometimes lockups end up as animation with wheels flying off the barrier... etc

 

ALL essential to the gameplay. It looks pretty. But when every race is sim p1, sim p2, sim p3, get 100% driver set up due to a website (https://f1-manager-calc.vercel.app/), get screwed over in quali due to AI not letting you go on flying lap, go medium - hard with fastest options, overcut everyone, end up higher than should. End the race and develop car using custom sliders cos that's OP. Williams ends up as best team in season two.

 

This is not fun. I'd rather play FM with outdated graphics and gradual improvements because FM already has all the proper stuff in the game. Just need at least fifa 08 graphics. If people have potato pc let them run on 2d.

Nobody's arguing that graphics are more important than gameplay though. I'm sure 99% of us here would agree on that. 

 

But FM already has the gameplay part figured out. It's been figured out for years and years now, so it's only logical that other parts of the game level up as well.

I'd rather have a nice and shiny graphics, and modern UI/UX, on top of the already great gameplay, rather than what we have now.

[2feet]

This may be an unpopular opinion, so shoot me down, but...

I think the FM graphics are OK.

People talk about the FIFA graphics, but that game looks totally fake, the players look like they're running whilst someone is pulling them back with a dog lead, their movements are so robotic, it's androids vs androids.

And the colours looks very artificial, too shiney.

With FM, the animations have improved again this year, you will see ball bobbing up and players hitting it on the volley for example, and better finishing from strikers.

The ME and graphics are apparently separate things, but I don't think you can have these fluid movements and attacking patterns that make the game look so realistic, without having a certain kind of anti-FIFA animation style.

The crowds though I agree on, they should be swarming seas of fans and flags.... not C3PO & friends take a day trip to the Emirates.

It's all about the gameplay and the graphics are a part of what enables that.

[BuryBlade]

Zealand saying what a lot of people have been saying. 

[themadsheep2001]

As I said in the other thread, for every tweet there's a counter tweet. All opinions and everyone has their differing views 

Me? I'd like to see everything improve, who wouldn't? But for me none of it matters on the same scale as the ME and AI. Everything else could literally stay the same, but if the ME and AI takes leaps forward, I'm sold. 

[(sic)]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As I said in the other thread, for every tweet there's a counter tweet. All opinions and everyone has their differing views 

Me? I'd like to see everything improve, who wouldn't? But for me none of it matters on the same scale as the ME and AI. Everything else could literally stay the same, but if the ME and AI takes leaps forward, I'm sold. 

And that tweet has missed the point, as the replies have pointed out. Nobody's playing FM for the graphics, but the graphics would enhance the experience MASSIVELY. 

Obviously I'd also like for ME and AI to improve, but at certain point you have to also improve the visuals. Just one word: immersion. I think we are at that point where graphics need to improve, they've already done a large leap forward with animations, but now there's other stuff like textures, lighting, etc.

But at this point, we are going in circles. Since this is it for FM23, I'm already looking forward to what FM24 brings to the table.

Edited October 14, 2022 by (sic)

[BuryBlade]

The fact the match day graphics look worse than FM17 is my main gripe. 
 

The actual match engine has improved massively but the stadiums look terrible, pitches, weather and lighting have all gone backwards. 
 

I’m not even that bothered for graphical updates to the football side. But I want the stadiums to feel different and realistic, weather to actual look/feel real and the pitches/lighting to go back to what it was like in FM17.

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, (sic) said:

And that tweet has missed the point, as the replies have pointed out. Nobody's playing FM for the graphics, but the graphics would enhance the experience MASSIVELY. 

Obviously I'd also like for ME and AI to improve, but at certain point you have to also improve the visuals. Just one word: immersion. I think we are at that point where graphics need to improve, they've already done a large leap forward with animations, but now there's other stuff like textures, lighting, etc.

But at this point, we are going in circles. Since this is it for FM23, I'm already looking forward to what FM24 brings to the table.

It doesn't. He just has a different opinion, as valid as as anyone elses. And people are free to agree/disagree with his (or indeed anyone elses) 

[grade]

6 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As I said in the other thread, for every tweet there's a counter tweet. All opinions and everyone has their differing views 

Me? I'd like to see everything improve, who wouldn't? But for me none of it matters on the same scale as the ME and AI. Everything else could literally stay the same, but if the ME and AI takes leaps forward, I'm sold. 

No one is playing or will play FM for graphics (match graphics specially).  They go to be manager of the team. However, being manager means that match engine or its 3d graphics is a core feature of the game... at least for me.

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, BuryBlade said:

The fact the match day graphics look worse than FM17 is my main gripe. 
 

The actual match engine has improved massively but the stadiums look terrible, pitches, weather and lighting have all gone backwards. 
 

I’m not even that bothered for graphical updates to the football side. But I want the stadiums to feel different and realistic, weather to actual look/feel real and the pitches/lighting to go back to what it was like in FM17.

On the football side, in many ways they've done loads of the hard work with the actual movement modelling, it's almost about "sharpening the image" as it were. I think the weather of all the graphics bothers me the most, oddly. 

[BuryBlade]

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

On the football side, in many ways they've done loads of the hard work with the actual movement modelling, it's almost about "sharpening the image" as it were. I think the weather of all the graphics bothers me the most, oddly. 

Agreed. As sic said, it’s about immersion. I want it to look and feel more like it should. Make me believe it’s Tuesday night in league 2 on one hand, and the Champions League Final on the other. 

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, BuryBlade said:

Agreed. As sic said, it’s about immersion. I want it to look and feel more like it should. Make me believe it’s Tuesday night in league 2 on one hand, and the Champions League Final on the other. 

Aye. But I think that's why the ME is so important to me personally. It could be the best looking thing in the world, but if the games start doing wierd things or the teams don't feel right, that's when I lose the immersion.  

One thing I think is overlooked, is sound actually. Not necessarily commentary, but crowd ebb and flow. 

[FelixForte]

Why make small immersion upgrades if we’ll be looking at stick figures once match day comes? We’re all playing this for the game experience, otherwise we’d play FIFA or so. But that doesn’t mean that there is no value in enhancing graphics. By that logic, we could have kept the 2D engine.

 

The game is enormously lagging behind in graphics. It makes up for it in gameplay, but the game would be on a whole another level if we also had decent graphics.

[Hopfrog12]

To me, what it comes down to is: 

1. Do I play FM for the graphics? No.

2. Would better graphics make my experience better? Yes, absolutely.

3. Is it reasonable to expect the graphics to be better than they currently are? I think so.

 

I don't need FIFA-level graphics for FM, but I just think they could look a lot better than they currently do. Stadiums are a big one for me - the lack of variety and strange design choices (what is it with those corners?) hurt immersion. And they would not even have to go to great lengths to design every stadium in existence - a decent in-game stadium designer + the FM mod community would lead to close to real-life replicas in no time. 

Instead we get more coats + watches and scarves for our manager which I guess is nice? But with the graphics as they are, how much of a difference do those additions even make?

Edited October 14, 2022 by Hopfrog12

[2feet]

I made a post in the requests section on this already because I think its more important than graphics.

But I would like to see more involving relationships with players. Developing relationships with players is rewarded by opening up new gameplay. 

Little side quests to try to boost a young players hidden attributes, more faces and drama at press conferences. Imagine a press conference against a timer, the longer you take to answer the more journalists get angry. You see the faces of the journalists getting angrier and then their questions become more hostile. Things like that.

If there is an issue with players getting into trouble so you cant have a story based around that, then only do it for new gens.

People are forever saying they enjoy taking a small club and making them bigger, or developing a youth player into a star player. It's these kinds of things that people love about football.

But the feedback and reward from the game on these things is very minimal. It's a shame because this is where the emotional enjoyment of the game could be very high and the game should be responding in a significant way.

And it's also a massive part of a real managers job.

And if SI want to expand their audience to include more female game players, they're going to have a hard time convincing them if the game is too analytical and doesn't have the drama, relationships and reward to go with it.

Edited October 14, 2022 by 2feet

[BuryBlade]

43 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Aye. But I think that's why the ME is so important to me personally. It could be the best looking thing in the world, but if the games start doing wierd things or the teams don't feel right, that's when I lose the immersion.  

One thing I think is overlooked, is sound actually. Not necessarily commentary, but crowd ebb and flow. 

Great shout! I play on mute because the noise doesn’t reflect what’s happening. Proper sound would be amazing for immersion. Actually hearing your fans make noise celebrating a goal would be a good start. 

[Cro-cop]

The problem is that graphics are not stagnating. It went backwards. Just go and watch some videos of FM17. Its unbelievable, 6 years years ago it looked much better.

Everyone knows that ME and AI are much more important and i agree. But its more than understandable that people are frustrated and disappointed with the treatment of match graphics. Its actually a fact that it looks worse than 6 years ago. Just look at stadiums,  grass texture and lighting, shadows etc. Thats the point. It looks worse than 6 years ago!

[Ferocious289]

9 minutes ago, Cro-cop said:

The problem is that graphics are not stagnating. It went backwards. Just go and watch some videos of FM17. Its unbelievable, 6 years years ago it looked much better.

Everyone knows that ME and AI are much more important and i agree. But its more than understandable that people are frustrated and disappointed with the treatment of match graphics. Its actually a fact that it looks worse than 6 years ago. Just look at stadiums,  grass texture and lighting, shadows etc. Thats the point. It looks worse than 6 years ago!

It's crazy fm17 looks light years ahead of the current graphics and player models look better, look at the backheel at 35 secs

 

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, (sic) said:

And that tweet has missed the point, as the replies have pointed out. Nobody's playing FM for the graphics, but the graphics would enhance the experience MASSIVELY. 

Obviously I'd also like for ME and AI to improve, but at certain point you have to also improve the visuals. Just one word: immersion. I think we are at that point where graphics need to improve, they've already done a large leap forward with animations, but now there's other stuff like textures, lighting, etc.

But at this point, we are going in circles. Since this is it for FM23, I'm already looking forward to what FM24 brings to the table.

I agree, his point may have been valid 5 years ago, but just like how everyone still preferred 2D during that time, times change and you have to keep up with the technology. 
 

not to mention that a blog post was about graphics so trying to dismiss graphics in that tweet is kind of pointless.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Mars_Blackmon

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, grade said:

No one is playing or will play FM for graphics (match graphics specially).  They go to be manager of the team. However, being manager means that match engine or its 3d graphics is a core feature of the game... at least for me.

So much of a core that you get to chose a watch.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Hopfrog12 said:

To me, what it comes down to is: 

1. Do I play FM for the graphics? No.

2. Would better graphics make my experience better? Yes, absolutely.

3. Is it reasonable to expect the graphics to be better than they currently are? I think so.

 

I don't need FIFA-level graphics for FM, but I just think they could look a lot better than they currently do. Stadiums are a big one for me - the lack of variety and strange design choices (what is it with those corners?) hurt immersion. And they would not even have to go to great lengths to design every stadium in existence - a decent in-game stadium designer + the FM mod community would lead to close to real-life replicas in no time. 

Instead we get more coats + watches and scarves for our manager which I guess is nice? But with the graphics as they are, how much of a difference do those additions even make?

I personally would have preferred a proper stadium for lower league teams…

[jimbo22]

35 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

As I said in the other thread, for every tweet there's a counter tweet. All opinions and everyone has their differing views 

Me? I'd like to see everything improve, who wouldn't? But for me none of it matters on the same scale as the ME and AI. Everything else could literally stay the same, but if the ME and AI takes leaps forward, I'm sold. 

There is zero doubts that the graphical side of FM needs a big upgrade. Im unsure why anyone would argue against that. The graphic/match side of things has looked almost the same for years now and thats not a good thing. There's a few games out there that have looked the same for a few years, MLB The Show being one but that gets a pass because im not sure where else they could go with the look of it. 

FM on the other hand? The stadiums look awful, the crowds look awful, the players still skate on the pitch. There's a long list of things that dont look right and as the years go by it looks like SI dont really feel like there's a problem. I mean they've put out the info that you manager can no have a watch and gloves... Really? Adding things to something you see on the loading screen and thats it. If they think that these are important additions then there are some real problems with the team that work on the graphical side of the game. 

[janrzm]

11 hours ago, BuryBlade said:

Zealand saying what a lot of people have been saying. 

At times it's felt like the "Emperors New Clothes....." so I for one really appreciate the likes of Zealand and Dr Benjy being more critical and honest with their public opinions. I love this game but some on here would die on any hill to defend it. Reading a  justification and defense of the poor graphics by way of a tweet from someone that isn't bothered about graphics is really doing a disservice to the game and everyone that plays it, however well intentioned it may be.

If graphics are integral to the game and I believe they are as SI keep updating the animations then they have to improve, end of. The stadia, the lighting, the weather, crowds, the pitch textures and players are all in dire need of an upgrade to at least bring them in to the 2000's.

I don't see the point of modeling the UEFA trophy podiums to then drop them in to a blocky toytown stadium. I don't see the point of adding the various armbands for tournaments if I can't see them. Likewise with the avatar attire.

I don't want to read a defense on here that graphics don't matter or that they aren't important to some people, I want to read an acknowledgement that they aren't at the desired level and are being worked on. If they are in the game, improve them so they stand up to the quality of the rest of the gameplay. So much of the game is excellent, it irks when people get knocked for wanting to see the graphics improve. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by janrzm

[jimbo22]

Just now, janrzm said:

I don't want to read a defense on here that graphics don't matter or that they aren't important to some people, I want to read an acknowledgement that they aren't up to scratch and are being worked on. If they are in the game, improve them so they stand up to the quality of the rest of the gameplay. So much of the game is excellent, it irks when people get knocked for wanting to see the graphics improve. 

The question that everyone should ask themselves is, even the people that work at SI... Is the graphical side of Football Manager the best version of itself that it can be in the year 2022. The answer is either Yes or No. 

[alian62]

1 hour ago, Ferocious289 said:

It's crazy fm17 looks light years ahead of the current graphics and player models look better, look at the backheel at 35 secs

 

As I understand the Graphics were either outsourced or became in-house after FM17 . They do look better but the Match Engine wasn't as good as it is now . I still play 17 but its frustrating at times with players just standing by while others get the ball . From a kit making point if view its a lot easier now . 

Edited October 15, 2022 by prot651

[priority76]

55 minutes ago, Ferocious289 said:

It's crazy fm17 looks light years ahead of the current graphics and player models look better, look at the backheel at 35 secs

It's the nets most for me.  So smooth and satisfying when the ball hits them, not like these days.  Why oh why did they change it!?!

[DementedHammer]

The graphics aren't particularly high on my priority list, as I mostly play on 2D. The thing that is most important, for me personally, is that the players decision-making and positioning looks authentic, more than the match graphics themselves. In that respect, I think things are very strongly heading in the right direction, as (in my opinion) FM22 has by far the best match engine so far. 

What I will say, regarding graphics, is that I played FM06 for years, right up until I switched FM18. I kept going back to FM06 as I was enjoying my save, and I found the earlier 3D engines unbelievable and immersion breaking. So in that respect, I do have sympathy for those voicing their frustrations. I don't think anybody would complain about a major graphics upgrade, as long as it wasn't at the expense of the other functionality, and you didn't need a $5000 PC to run the game. 

From FM18 onwards, I've been happy with the 3D view. Albeit, I only use it for replays. I prefer watching matches on 2D most of the time anyway. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by DementedHammer

[alian62]

From my years of playing since FM08 I make the comparison to a Great Movie . A great movie isn't great if its let down by the ending because thats what people remember. In comparison a great football manager game isn't great if the end result is poor . All your hard work being a Manager in training , scouting  , tactics and player interactions ect is let down by the final interpretation of a match in 3D . We have to remember its an interpretation of a result thats already been calculated.  Its our interactions with tactics and subs etc during the game that changes that result. So to see that happen we need better visualisation and immersion in the 3D area to make the player appreciate all the hard work . So that's what it is for me but we all play the game differently.  

[janrzm]

1 hour ago, Ferocious289 said:

It's crazy fm17 looks light years ahead of the current graphics and player models look better, look at the backheel at 35 secs

 

Makes me sad. If you squint a little bit and watch that it could almost be real at times....!! 

I've said it before on here, "we" adjust to what's put in front of us really quickly, accepting it and literally forgetting what came before. It's only when you look back like this that you appreciate the magnitude of regression in some aspects of gameplay. Truly startling. 

[Ferocious289]

7 minutes ago, janrzm said:

Makes me sad. If you squint a little bit and watch that it could almost be real at times....!! 

I've said it before on here, "we" adjust to what's put in front of us really quickly, accepting it and literally forgetting what came before. It's only when you look back like this that you appreciate the magnitude of regression in some aspects of gameplay. Truly startling. 

Even the trailor you can see how proud they were of showcasting the progressive graphical engine and effort into it knowing it was majestic pushing the envelope. Today's trailers it's all  filtered fluff of real life cuts of players and fans with no actual footage of the in game footage,  almost as if there is a hint of shame preventing them from showing off that this is the best they can do in the year 2022

[Kloppy]

Would have loved a Japanese League announcement. Few more African leagues also. That along with improvements to the match engine and tactics and instructions and I’d be happy. 

[phd_angel]

As many have said, besides the "revolutionary" new features, I'd love to see what has been FIXED this year: broken set pieces, ad nauseam VAR reviews, poor scouting features, poorly designed interfaces, lousy international management, etc. etc. etc.

I'd rather see less features that actually work, than more fluff features that promise to bog down or break down game flow.

 

[bahmet]

I am sure that the rain in clear sunny weather has not been corrected)

A winter match is a visual horror)

 

[ferrarinseb]

On Graphics : Most don't want FIFA level Graphics. Just want upgrade of FM17 and prior Version Graphical Detail. Some thing already existed in the game 6 years ago

[Powermonger]

7 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It doesn't. He just has a different opinion, as valid as as anyone elses. And people are free to agree/disagree with his (or indeed anyone elses) 

The main gripe I have with the linked Twitter quote is that the guy basically says people are plain wrong if they play FM for graphics and telling others how they should think. We are talking about a PC/console game, not Excel. Gaming is all about pushing boundaries, if that wasn’t the case we’d all still be playing Pong. 

[Rashidi]

I for one won't deny that the aesthetics of the game can be improved. Granted I can see the arguments for and against a better graphics engine. I don't want some cheap fifa knock-off but I want to see those picnic stands leave the stadiums forever. Yes the animation might look smoother but I also want to see collision detection. At times the animation of the game looks like two sides playing "cant touch me" football. And we all know that football is a contact sport in real life, but not in the depicted match and graphics engine. 

The arguments for priority over getting a more accurate match engine cannot be ignored. People want simulated results and statistics to accurately reflect the modern game. People want teams to use strategies that modern managers use. They want to feel that they are playing against an adaptive AI, not some random  program that has a simple IF > THEN logic set up thats guided by two simple tactics > attack or defend at pre-defined moments in the game. I want the AI to recognise the threat of me using an overloaded flank or me targetting a  vulnerable player. And, I want it to respond. 

Last year I played a match on FM22 against Leeds, and this is kudos to the Leeds researcher, he had the tactic set up perfectly. I was stunned when the AI went on an all attacking mentality inside the first 10 minutes of the game. I was down by a goal and then lost the match 4-1 on the opening day. In the twenty years of playing the game I have never played against an AI that has thrown me for a loop like that.  I want to see more of that in the game, the challenge then lies in making other managers adaptive. It will raise the bar of difficulty for the average player.

Having done all that I also want the AI to be more aggressive in the transfer market, I want it to beat me to signing the best youth players. The game has a ridiculously easy mode : Set 3 or less leagues as playable and the others as view only. It creates the illusion of a big gameworld. In reality it is a very small game world, with 3 leagues fighting over transfers, the rest are quiet. The generation of newgens is great in the 3 loaded ones, but their long term development now depends on how many feeder leagues are around for them to go on loan to. And because there are only 3 leagues playable there is a finite number of newgens around. This isn't realistic.

So i bump  my rig up to 40 playable nations and nearly 80 leagues. Now I have 170k players, the world is big fun and realistic. Transfer markets are ferocious, so many newgens are popping up, but the AIs long term planning is not perfect its still using world reputation and CA to choose the starting 11. Over the years the average age of each national team increases. England goes from 27 - 30 in matter of 4 years. The average age of a debut player goes from 20 to 23. And fewer players are showing up.

Yes I want graphics to improve, but I also don't want SI to do cheap attempts that fail to impress me. This is by far the least impressive thing that SI have done in ages

If Si were to provide us with an IN GAME manager camera that switched to us during matches, yeah then this would be cool. Its obvious it could cut to me whenever I do a shout. Imagine me berating a player, it cuts to me throwing my frozen water bottle in disgust. That immersion is what the game needs, but to make the watch a feature?  If there is one criticism I will level : there are features you announce and there are features you don't need to bother with because we don't see it in the game. I don't care about what jersey I am wearing, there are hardly any manager cutaways. 

Its far more effective to devote resources to areas of the game that need improvement, yes SI do that. I will acknowledge that every year. But the watch seriously? 

[Smurf]

13 minutes ago, Rashidi said:

But the watch seriously? 

Do you know how seriously people take this? 

I do - if you're on twitter at all - the amount of people who post a picture of their new smart watch, Apple Ultra, Pixel, Samsung - it's a massive market and very personal to people. 

If you want complete immersion you want a full representation of you within the game - and if that brings you closer to being more involved within the game - then whats the harm? 

For me - this feature is useless - never liked the idea of custom building an AI version represenation of myself. I've no - ZERO - interest in this feature. 

But others like it. And if it's important to create that perfect avatar for the game - then go for it. 

Who am I to judge?

[mielony]

What would i like to see in fm 2023?

1. A bit more difficult game.

2. Managing, transfers, AI team building.

3. Better ME.

[-Jef-]

10 hours ago, (sic) said:

Nobody's arguing that graphics are more important than gameplay though. I'm sure 99% of us here would agree on that. 

 

But FM already has the gameplay part figured out. It's been figured out for years and years now, so it's only logical that other parts of the game level up as well.

I'd rather have a nice and shiny graphics, and modern UI/UX, on top of the already great gameplay, rather than what we have now.

That is what I said. Only thing misaing is graphics

[Just4Downloads]

Genuine question: 

How does anyone get any sort of realism or immersion playing in the same stadium pretty much every other game, just in different seat colours? Apart from a few select stadiums here and there without a roof, almost everywhere is the same. No matter the country or continent. Completely ruins the experience for me. 
 

Starting in the national league south for example, with a team that has a capacity of 3000. Yet on this game, they have a fully built 4 stand stadium that looks like it holds about 10000. And it’s the same for every team in the division and then the same for the immediate divisions above. FM has to do better…

[Just4Downloads]

How is this even possible after 10 years? Genuinely, how? 
 

Going in the right direction until about FM17 and then something happened and it’s arguably got worse year on year until now.

What has actually happened? Someone must know. 

[alian62]

13 minutes ago, Just4Downloads said:

How is this even possible after 10 years? Genuinely, how? 
 

Going in the right direction until about FM17 and then something happened and it’s arguably got worse year on year until now.

What has actually happened? Someone must know. 

As I understand the Graphics were either outsourced or became in-house after FM17 . They do look better but the Match Engine wasn't as good as it is now . I still play 17 but its frustrating at times with players just standing by while others get the ball . From a kit making point if view its a lot easier now . 

[KeiranShikari]

I assumed the environmental graphical stuff got cut back because the actual football part of it began using more processing power.

[BuryBlade]

31 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

I assumed the environmental graphical stuff got cut back because the actual football part of it began using more processing power.

If this is the case it’s utterly bizarre considering they still haven’t made it so the game runs on multiple cores. 
 

At the end of the day, we are all here because we enjoy playing football manager. I started on CM2 as a child and was hooked immediately. However, I find myself playing much less because each iteration feels to move further away from ‘fun’ and closer to ‘admin work’. (And this is from someone who plays FM Touch!) This coupled with major issues like set pieces and international management not being fixed or even acknowledged.

If SI came out and said they were working to rebuild set pieces, international management, XYZ etc but it wasn’t ready; fine. At least we know you are aware it’s broken and are trying to fix it. But we don’t get this, so every year we raise the same issues and go round in circles as the frustration in the community grows.

I’m actually really pleased that Zealand and others are being more vocal about things needing improvement. They have large audiences and hopefully this might encourage changes for FM24.

Edited October 15, 2022 by BuryBlade

[Erimus1876]

1 hour ago, Just4Downloads said:

How is this even possible after 10 years? Genuinely, how? 
 

Going in the right direction until about FM17 and then something happened and it’s arguably got worse year on year until now.

What has actually happened? Someone must know. 

SI have never commented as to why they undid all the great graphical progress made between FM11 and FM17 with the release of the abomination that was FM18.  People have been asking about this since the day FM18 was first showcased 5 years ago when it was obvious to all that the graphics had been significantly downgraded and all those wonderful camera angles (about 20 of them) were stripped out.  But back then it was only a small minority of people who complained.  Today its a different story, the amount of people now calling SI out on this issue is heartening to see for those of us who loved the whole match day experience of the game prior to FM18.   Hopefully SI will finally begin to take note.

 

BTW, its really good to see some of the big streamers finally mention this.  I get it that people like Zealand, DoctorBenjy and WorkTheSpace make a living off the content they put out, so its a brave call of them to do that.  I hope some of the other "influencers" have the bottle to follow their lead on this issue.  And surely a better looking 3d match is going to attract new players to the series, and thus more viewers to their channels in the long run. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Erimus1876

[DP]

13 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

I was just coming on here to post 'Minecraft', it's literally the most popular game on the planet right now (god knows why, but thats another story...) , and the graphics on that game are primitive at best. 

I mean, Minecraft isn’t trying to be any sort of simulation and it’s graphics (ie blocks) are actually a fairly fundamental part of the mechanics of the game. 
 

It’s completely non comparable to FM. 

[stevemc]

I play the game on that Data Analyst camera angle purely because I can't stick some of the closer up angles in 3D as it just looks odd. I used to love 2D but for some season the life was stripped out of it, removed the stadiums and now it just feels a bit of an afterthought.

I'd love to see SI improve 3D graphically etc but also make 2D much better so people have a genuine option to either flick between the two, or if you have low spec PC/Mac you can play it on commentary mode (like old CM97/87) or a great-looking 2D.

For me though, the bigger problem is match day immersion, I've mentioned this for years - the current set-up of stadiums, picnic-benches, odd building filling corners etc all contribute to the match-day feeling samey and not being much different between a World Cup final and say a Premier League match. They need to nail that differentiation of different atmospheres from around the world. A stadium editor would go a long way to fixing this as the community would be all over it, without SI having to do the work.

Edited October 15, 2022 by stevemc

[rp1966]

1 hour ago, KeiranShikari said:

I assumed the environmental graphical stuff got cut back because the actual football part of it began using more processing power.

It is unlikely, but within the realms of possibility. that the processing for the animation is significantly heavier than FM17, so requires more processing. But never forget that the actual match calculations do not happen in parallel with the match highlights - they are not real time.  The match events get calculated, highlights are generated from the pkm and when subs or tactical changes happen the pkm gets recalculated from that time in the match and the highlights are displayed from that point.  CPU load is heaviest when doing the matchday or transfer calculations.  When the game is actually playing CPU load drops significantly and GPU notches up slightly.

But even if processing for animating the players was significantly heavier, that doesn't offer any explanation for degrading textures and lighting. Or the backwards step in stadium designs.  

Something went seriously wrong between FM17 and 18 - I doubt we'll ever know the true story.

Edited October 15, 2022 by rp1966

[rp1966]

40 minutes ago, BuryBlade said:

At the end of the day, we are all here because we enjoy playing football manager. I started on CM2 as a child and was hooked immediately. However, I find myself playing much less because each iteration feels to move further away from ‘fun’ and closer to ‘admin work’. 

 

Very much this - I have characterised this as the movement of FOOTBALL manager to football MANAGER.  But if you endured the 40min announcement video, you'll have heard Miles getting all excited about talking to people in football about their day-to-day work - that's where the meetings obsession in FM has come from.  I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but for most people in an office job meetings are the bane of their existence.  The last thing we need is to suffer them in a game as well.  The issue is we're moving beyond football specific management tasks and into just generic any industry management - and it's more and more like work.  

I'm waiting for the revamp of the finance screens where instead of a few tabs of info we'll get a simulated 2 hour 'death by Powerpoint' presentation from the chairman like the tedious quarterly finance director meetings you get at work.

 

[Powermonger]

13 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

Very much this - I have characterised this as the movement of FOOTBALL manager to football MANAGER.  But if you endured the 40min announcement video, you'll have heard Miles getting all excited about talking to people in football about their day-to-day work - that's where the meetings obsession in FM has come from.  I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but for most people in an office job meetings are the bane of their existence.  The last thing we need is to suffer them in a game as well.  The issue is we're moving beyond football specific management tasks and into just generic any industry management - and it's more and more like work.  

I think this is one of the crux of the matters, it is starting to feel more like work than a game and is why I detest the dependency of the Inbox so much.

I get over 200 emails a day to my mailbox at work and it is a tedious process to go through them all and weed out the important emails from the noise, unfortunately FM emulates my day job too well and I feel like I am back to doing a tedious chore again. This is why I would prefer the FM UI to be revamped to be more dashboard focused and less Inbox focused, it needs some streamlining. There should be a central screen used as a launchpad and any information pertaining to an aspect of the game should be found in that particular module. At the moment there just feels like there are competing screens and information with no central focus, except for that blasted Inbox. Even in the current UI, you have the Home screen but for me I barely use it.