FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[DementedHammer]

I also have FM installed on 'potato' systems for some use cases. In my case, it's an 8 inch Windows Intel Atom tablet (which I actually bought specifically for FM) and an Intel Compute Stick (admittedly, the up spec M5 processor version, which actually handles FM pretty well). They're both super portable for when I'm traveling and I want to take my main save with me.  It's great having an FM system that, in the case of the Compute Stick literally fits in my pocket. 

I do have a more grunty desktop for FM and my main work though. Albeit, it's still hardly a top of the line setup. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by DementedHammer

[FM1000]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'll try and see if @Neil Brock is not too crazy busy and around to elaborate, but a good chunk of the FM user base aren't your typical gamers, they often only play FM. And if anyone wants see how often this happens anecdotally, have a look at the laptop and PC thread, people constantly looking for the cheapest laptop good enough to play FM, often stating they don't need it for anything else apart from that and work. Now if they represented 1,2, 5%, you could make that gamble, when its significantly more, that's a problem, and that's where @gunner86is spot on with migrating people away to different platforms, organically moving people away, without necessarily losing a big market chunk

I don't understand this line of thought, even if 50% of the people who play FM play it on literal toasters the graphics can still improve without affecting them, this is why we have graphical settings no?

And graphics are just the one part of the visuals, they can add much more animations even with the current graphics, for example the ME is missing dribbling animations....a huge part of football is not shown in the ME.

[BuzzR]

I don't understand why we keep talking about low end PCs as a deal breaker for improvements.. I really don't.

It's not like a future graphically improved version of the game will run the match only in 4k resolution and the textures will be 4k only - bursting out of that poor video card's vram.

No one does that. NO ONE. 

Rest assured, if by a miracle of god - there will be an improvement in graphics, the lower end PCs will still be able to see the puppet show that currently is the match engine.

We keep finding excuses for things that do not need to be excused. SI will not invest in graphical changes - art/ animation / stadiums licenses / geo-location variety until a competitor will outplay them in this field. And they don't have one competitor in any field.

There is a post a couple of pages back, that shows the downgrade in graphics that happened between FM17 and FM18 going forward. Let's not forget it! - because it renders useless all discussions about graphics. If lower end PCs delivered a decent gaming experience in 2016 for FM17, I am pretty sure that they will do fine in 2022+ with at least the same quality of FM17.

 

 

 

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

I don't understand this line of thought, even if 50% of the people who play FM play it on literal toasters the graphics can still improve without affecting them, this is why we have graphical settings no?

And graphics are just the one part of the visuals, they can add much more animations even with the current graphics, for example the ME is missing dribbling animations....a huge part of football is not shown in the ME.

Because there's more to it than graphical settings. We're talking process speeds, complex base interactions. Graphics are probably the least of the concerns when talking about low end machines 

[FM1000]

3 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because there's more to it than graphical settings. We're talking process speeds, complex base interactions. Graphics are probably the least of the concerns when talking about low end machines 

Yeah but the ME is calculated in advance. So by clicking play/start the ME is just rendering the calculations, not doing any calculations...until you make any tactical change then it recalculates from there.

So if they have slower PC's then they can wait an extra 2-3 sec after a tactical change.

[BuzzR]

10 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Because there's more to it than graphical settings. We're talking process speeds, complex base interactions. Graphics are probably the least of the concerns when talking about low end machines 

So it's not graphics "we are concerned" about eventually, so the graphics could improve but .. ?!

I have to remind you the fact that recommended ( not required ) specs for FM23 are:  Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 . 

Intel Core 2 released date is 2006 and Amd Athlon 64 X2 is 2005. ( from Steam Page ).

This year's game runs on hardware that's 16 yo.

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by BuzzR
phrasing

[Piperita]

Just now, FM1000 said:

[...]for example the ME is missing dribbling animations[...]

Can you elaborate? Currently I see quite a lot of visible dribblings. My central players are rocking it, constantly cutting past their opposition, holding onto the ball under pressure, and generally having more 1-v-1 situations. I think there are two big (or rather BIG) problems right now: The system can not handle these situations on the flanks. Players are marked too loosely there and thus what counts as "Dribbling" is just a burst of speed past the opposition. It looks back and it lacks the feeling of achievement and wonder if an aggressive winger opens up spaces and runs into empty outer land or suddenly breaks through towards the goal. In the centre there is more "bunching" and it feels like better marking, resulting in more close encounters.

And with the strength of Gegenpress, Counters, and high mentalities, the game runs too fast for the good stuff to show most of the time. We get shots or passes or quick dashes first. Since I changed my base formation to be slower in tempo but with an aggressive mentality, DLFa, AMA and IFs have had quite a few nice scenes. They take the risk of a direct duel for space but also take the time to wait for roaming or overlapping teammates.

In my opinion there needs to be a massive upgrade on the flanks and for the centre ot should be more normal to see these scenes. Players should get these scenes more often, particularly if they have the right skillset (dribbling, flair, decision) or right amount of daring (flair, low teamwork) for it, and not just in particular setups.

[themadsheep2001]

12 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

Yeah but the ME is calculated in advance. So by clicking play/start the ME is just rendering the calculations, not doing any calculations...until you make any tactical change then it recalculates from there.

So if they have slower PC's then they can wait an extra 2-3 sec after a tactical change.

The ME recalculates every time you or the AI make a change. Not only that, the more processing power, the greater the number of calculations, so building a more demanding AI system can take advantage of that with higher spec computers but making weaker machines (which a significant minority) wait even longer between tactical changes is not the best way forward, which is why they haven't gone that way. Hence optimising within the current specs, and widening the number of ways to play which hopefully gets people migrating away from older systems without having to lose a significant part of your player base. 

[themadsheep2001]

8 minutes ago, BuzzR said:

So it's not graphics "we are concerned" about eventually, so the graphics could improve but .. ?!

I have to remind you the fact that recommended ( not required ) specs for FM23 are:  Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 . 

Intel Core 2 released date is 2006 and Amd Athlon 64 X2 is 2005. ( from Steam Page ).

This year's game runs on hardware that's 16 yo.

 

I'm not sure what point or question you're trying to make tbh?

[themadsheep2001]

It's not really about whether specs should go up or not (they should), it's about how you do it while maintaining your player base, particularly when it's one that's necessarily typical of gamers across the board. 

[BuzzR]

Just now, themadsheep2001 said:

I'm not sure what point or question you're trying to make tbh?

 

1 minute ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The ME recalculates every time you or the AI make a change. Not only that, the more processing power, the greater the number of calculations, so building a more demanding AI system can take advantage of that but making weaker machines wait even longer between tactical changes is not the best way forward, which is why they haven't gone that way. Hence optimising within the current specs 

What lower end machines are we talking about ?!?! 

I will repeat myself : 

10 minutes ago, BuzzR said:

I have to remind you the fact that recommended ( not required ) specs for FM23 are:  Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 . 

Intel Core 2 released date is 2006 and Amd Athlon 64 X2 is 2005. ( from Steam Page ).

This year's game runs on hardware that's 16 yo.

This games RECOMMENDED specs are from 16 years ago ! That means it delivers a decent gaming experience ( tested and verified by QA ) on hardware that was high end 16  ( sixteen ) years ago. 

What lower-end PCs ( lower than this recommended specs ) do you defend when you talk about demanding AI system, optimizing and compromising from improvements ?

[FM1000]

9 minutes ago, Piperita said:

Can you elaborate? Currently I see quite a lot of visible dribblings. My central players are rocking it, constantly cutting past their opposition, holding onto the ball under pressure, and generally having more 1-v-1 situations. I think there are two big (or rather BIG) problems right now: The system can not handle these situations on the flanks. Players are marked too loosely there and thus what counts as "Dribbling" is just a burst of speed past the opposition. It looks back and it lacks the feeling of achievement and wonder if an aggressive winger opens up spaces and runs into empty outer land or suddenly breaks through towards the goal. In the centre there is more "bunching" and it feels like better marking, resulting in more close encounters.

And with the strength of Gegenpress, Counters, and high mentalities, the game runs too fast for the good stuff to show most of the time. We get shots or passes or quick dashes first. Since I changed my base formation to be slower in tempo but with an aggressive mentality, DLFa, AMA and IFs have had quite a few nice scenes. They take the risk of a direct duel for space but also take the time to wait for roaming or overlapping teammates.

In my opinion there needs to be a massive upgrade on the flanks and for the centre ot should be more normal to see these scenes. Players should get these scenes more often, particularly if they have the right skillset (dribbling, flair, decision) or right amount of daring (flair, low teamwork) for it, and not just in particular setups.

Yeah like I said no dribbling animations (no elasticos, no stepovers, no tricks) just players sprinting past opponents or doing a side step to avoid the defender.

[FM1000]

10 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The ME recalculates every time you or the AI make a change. Not only that, the more processing power, the greater the number of calculations, so building a more demanding AI system can take advantage of that with higher spec computers but making weaker machines (which a significant minority) wait even longer between tactical changes is not the best way forward, which is why they haven't gone that way. Hence optimising within the current specs, and widening the number of ways to play which hopefully gets people migrating away from older systems without having to lose a significant part of your player base. 

Yeah but come on, the android phone I have in my hand has better cpu then the minimum requirements for the game which like someone posted above are Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 .

And FM Is the only game I currently have time to play and still I went and bought a new PC with a decent graphics card 2 years ago...to play only FM 

[themadsheep2001]

6 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

Yeah but come on, the android phone I have in my hand has better cpu then the minimum requirements for the game which like someone posted above are Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 .

And FM Is the only game I currently have time to play and still I went and bought a new PC with a decent graphics card 2 years ago...to play only FM 

You'd be surprised what people play on. I know Neil stuck the metrics on here a couple of years back which was eye opening to say the least. But that doesn't even tell you half the story. Try running the game full detail on that spec with lots of leagues loaded and you'll set your machine on fire. Anyone who does lots of soak tests or simulations, or even many league with full detail saves will quickly tell you how much the demand ramps up. So if you up the base significantly, you'll actually impact far more than you think. 

[BuzzR]

5 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

It's not really about whether specs should go up or not (they should), it's about how you do it while maintaining your player base, particularly when it's one that's necessarily typical of gamers across the board. 

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. 

This discussion is meaningless. We keep hearing on and on every year about lower end computers and protecting the fan base .. When obviously it's not real. It's just not.

When your recommended specs are from the time Borat was lunched and George W. Bush was president - you cannot argue that processing power and AI system is relevant and takes precedence over graphics and that's why there are no graphics improvements. 

You would protect your fanbase by been honest, and deliver meaningful improved products. There is proven evidence of graphics quality downgrade, and this ends the lower specs fan base nonsense argument.

There are numerous issues and discussions on this forums regarding animations, lack of stadium variations, set pieces ! bugs that are inherited year after year.. and we keep hearing " protecting the fan base". 

 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, BuzzR said:

I'm sorry, I don't understand this. 

This discussion is meaningless. We keep hearing on and on every year about lower end computers and protecting the fan base .. When obviously it's not real. It's just not.

When your recommended specs are from the time Borat was lunched and George W. Bush was president - you cannot argue that processing power and AI system is relevant and takes precedence over graphics and that's why there are no graphics improvements. 

You would protect your fanbase by been honest, and deliver meaningful improved products. There is proven evidence of graphics quality downgrade, and this ends the lower specs fan base nonsense argument.

There are numerous issues and discussions on this forums regarding animations, lack of stadium variations, set pieces ! bugs that are inherited year after year.. and we keep hearing " protecting the fan base". 

 

You realise I don't work for SI. And secondly if you feel this discussion is meaningless then I won't waste my time talking to you further. Everyone has different opinions, happy to discuss with those who want to. 

[WhatsGoingON]

I wanted to see changes made to the player promises part of the game. Im always reluctant to make promises as you can never be certain if the player is going to be happy. 
 

They need to be made measurable. For example, if your promise is to “sign a player to help him settle” . It should come with a measurable target such as , sign someone from the same nation as him , or sign one of the following 5 players, who he is close to/ played with previously. 
 

Similarly with “promise to play youth players” make this a realistic target, either playing a certain youth player 15-20 times a season, or have under 21 players to play a certain number of games. 
 

 

[EdL]

Not to get drawn into the argument but the Athlon X2, Intel Core 2 spec, is a minimum not recommended, we don't provide a recommended spec.

I wouldn't recommend anyone plays on such a machine, we just offer a guartentee it will run on that, not how fast.

From my memory of the stats we have very few on PC's that old, but we have significant proportion on 10+ year old machines

[2feet]

If you're a user using an AMD Atholon x2 laptop, how many other companies are out there releasing top quality games for you? Not many probably.

Say you bumped up the minimum recommended from machines that came out 2006 to machines that came out 2010, then you'd lose a lot of customers I would think.

But I still wish they would do that and increase the minimum spec in a big leap.

Especially if this meant more variety in animation, a better 'kinetic' sense of collision between players (e.g. hard tackles you can really feel), better stadiums where you feel the swarming presence of the fans like you do at a real game and a better more graphical interface off the pitch (press conferences could be so much fun if they were more graphical and alive rather than just text boxes).

[Rashidi]

7 hours ago, FM1000 said:

for example the ME is missing dribbling animations.

I disagree with you absolutely, people have seen me stream a ball playing defender dribbling all the way to the penalty area to lay off an assist. I have had Inside forwards cutting inside dribbling and taking on defenders, inverted wingers dribbling across the penalty area.

What can be better, is dribbling and changing directions.

[Daveincid]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb BuzzR:

 

What lower end machines are we talking about ?!?! 

I will repeat myself : 

This games RECOMMENDED specs are from 16 years ago ! That means it delivers a decent gaming experience ( tested and verified by QA ) on hardware that was high end 16  ( sixteen ) years ago. 

What lower-end PCs ( lower than this recommended specs ) do you defend when you talk about demanding AI system, optimizing and compromising from improvements ?

I don't think it's about defending lower-end setups. Football Manager can even heating up my whole office with my high-end AMD 5950x. So the game itself is very "flexible" for every PC/Laptop configuration to push it's limits if you load demanding setups.

So I don't see an issue if FM is also supported on a toaster as long as it is also capable of setting my 5950x under fire.

There is still a major benefit of having high-end CPU's for Football Manager. Feel free to check the benchmark (especially benchmark D) here:

 

 

[Powermonger]

13 hours ago, gunner86 said:

hopefully, now the game is available across so many different platforms, a substantial amount of players on lower spec machines migrates to another way of playing, meaning that they can move up the minimum specs without making a business decision that ultimately raises costs for everyone.

I think this is a good step, gives people platform options and SI can develop to the strengths of that platform. 
 

The history of gaming though is closely tied to the history of computer performance, games have naturally become more demanding and more detailed as hardware has become more powerful. 
 

FM seems to try and fight against this trend, I wonder how much of this though is from having to support a legacy code base and the limitations it brings? Other developers will rewrite their games from scratch every few years when doing sequels, I could be wrong but I don’t think SI have ever started from scratch with FM for any releases?

[AndersBC]

I am not tech savvy at all, but wouldn't a deal with a service like GeForce Now be something that SI could use to give people an option to play the game with higher specs?

[gunner86]

34 minutes ago, Powermonger said:

I think this is a good step, gives people platform options and SI can develop to the strengths of that platform. 
 

The history of gaming though is closely tied to the history of computer performance, games have naturally become more demanding and more detailed as hardware has become more powerful. 
 

FM seems to try and fight against this trend, I wonder how much of this thought is from having to support a legacy code base and the limitations it brings? Other developers will rewrite their games from scratch every few years when doing sequels, I could be wrong but I don’t think SI have ever started from scratch with FM for any releases?

Don’t disagree with anything here to be honest. And to my knowledge, no, never a full rewrite, only individual modules. At least as far back as 2005 (could be wrong, but elements of the game are still recognisable).

One thing I did think of, is it depends what you take as the default setup of the game, as the system setup to run one league is vastly different to that required to run all of them. Again, SI will have a fair amount of data on what game setups are used too. So part of me wonders if they are seeing that most people only run 5 countries so optimise the game around that. Just pure speculation though, based on nothing but my own musings.

[Powermonger]

1 hour ago, gunner86 said:

Don’t disagree with anything here to be honest. And to my knowledge, no, never a full rewrite, only individual modules. At least as far back as 2005 (could be wrong, but elements of the game are still recognisable).

One thing I remember from The Football Manager podcast which is probably relevant is there is a couple of SI Staff who’s role it is to review changes other staff propose and overrule any ideas that will break the game performance wise. 

[FM1000]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

I disagree with you absolutely, people have seen me stream a ball playing defender dribbling all the way to the penalty area to lay off an assist. I have had Inside forwards cutting inside dribbling and taking on defenders, inverted wingers dribbling across the penalty area.

What can be better, is dribbling and changing directions.

Well yeah but the "dribbling" in the ME is just players running past defenders or doing side steps to avoid them.

There are no stepovers ( FM 12 had stepovers) no elasticos no start and stop, no change of direction or any other tricks, or even proper duels one on one that look realistic.

[DP]

Comes down to peoples definition of ‘dribbling’. 

What I can tell you is that the game is currently very poor at showing individual flavour for flair players. This means a lot of the sprites appear the same with very few differences or unique character. Bringing sprites to life should be a big priority for the studio, imo. I want to see the difference very visibly between Van Dijk and Phil Jones. I want to see Rashford playing different to Jadon Sancho. It’s not enough right now - if you set their roles the same they’ll play the same way.  

Man Utd’s Antony cannot be represented properly in the current engine in terms of how he moves and takes on defenders in real life. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by DP

[alian62]

With costs sky-rocketing across the globe and many people struggling i doubt many are going fork out on new hardware . 

Edited October 7, 2022 by prot651

[gggfunk]

I must say I really like the headline features this year, to me they are much more appealing than last year's innovations. I haven't really used Data Hub (but I plan to understand it better this year), the new wing back role was just a tiny add-on, only the deadline day made a nice difference for me.

I understand most people's complaints that every year we get minor changes, but in my opinion it's better to improve the game by small steps rather than make a big revolution every year. I just hope that thanks to this we will be able to enjoy the game since full release, just imagine how many patches would have to be done if there were bigger changes  

Supporter confidence is my favorite addition so far, it will definitely add more realism to our saves. Squad planner will replace excel for me, so it will be great to have it included in game now.

The default skin on the screenshots also looks nice and tidy, I think I might actually stick to it this year.

Can't wait for info about other improvements.

[ImDaWeasel]

17 minutes ago, prot651 said:

With costs sky-rocketing across the globe and many people struggling i doubt many are going for out on new hardware . 

Hardware from 10 years ago can churn out much better than what we are being given year on year. Every year since FM18 I've stuck 3d on for the first few games of the beta before giving up and going back to 2d despite that being shafted every year too.

[DP]

16 minutes ago, gggfunk said:

I must say I really like the headline features this year, to me they are much more appealing than last year's innovations. I haven't really used Data Hub (but I plan to understand it better this year), the new wing back role was just a tiny add-on, only the deadline day made a nice difference for me.

I understand most people's complaints that every year we get minor changes, but in my opinion it's better to improve the game by small steps rather than make a big revolution every year. I just hope that thanks to this we will be able to enjoy the game since full release, just imagine how many patches would have to be done if there were bigger changes  

Supporter confidence is my favorite addition so far, it will definitely add more realism to our saves. Squad planner will replace excel for me, so it will be great to have it included in game now.

The default skin on the screenshots also looks nice and tidy, I think I might actually stick to it this year.

Can't wait for info about other improvements.

I think most agree with this it’s just what should be the subject of the small changes that can be grating. 
 

Why not refine some of the areas people are interested in such as long term AI manager squad building? Or goalkeepers being able to be sent off? Or general UI?
 

We’re at a point now where it’s difficult to bring in major new features but there is a lot in the game that can be refined - a refinement to the ‘squad depth’ screen, whilst nice, is not what the customers were asking for. 

Edited October 7, 2022 by DP

[Defensive]

Still only the headline features revealed? Or did i miss something, i thought in the last years at this point probably 2,5 weeks before the beta we knew more of the small things that are improved?

[ImDaWeasel]

3 minutes ago, Defensive said:

Still only the headline features revealed? Or did i miss something, i thought in the last years at this point probably 2,5 weeks before the beta we knew more of the small things that are improved?

The reception to the "headline features" has probably put Miles n co on radio silence. Barely heard from anyone since which is unusual.

[autohoratio]

14 minutes ago, Defensive said:

Still only the headline features revealed? Or did i miss something, i thought in the last years at this point probably 2,5 weeks before the beta we knew more of the small things that are improved?

If I had to guess, an FMFC blog will be released next thursday detailing the minor features that Miles used to post on twitter

[gggfunk]

1 minute ago, autohoratio said:

If I had to guess, an FMFC blog will be released next thursday detailing the minor features that Miles used to post on twitter

I thought the blogs will be released every Thursday but since we didn't get any yesterday I believe there are not so many minor features and they all will be presented in just one blog? If yes, I also guess next Thursday.

[themadsheep2001]

18 minutes ago, ImDaWeasel said:

The reception to the "headline features" has probably put Miles n co on radio silence. Barely heard from anyone since which is unusual.

Not really they did say blogs etc would following in October 

[ImDaWeasel]

8 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Not really they did say blogs etc would following in October 

Must've missed that. 

[Double0Seven]

I cant believe all of these graphics discussions. The same ones were happening 5 years ago complaning about graphics and pulling up specs comparing it to other games. Its like nothing has changed. Thats crazy. And sad. 

[bahmet]

1 month before release. 2 weeks to beta. Why is there no information about the game? Except for five headlines.

[aj6658]

2 minutes ago, bahmet said:

1 month before release. 2 weeks to beta. Why is there no information about the game? Except for five headlines.

Yeah this is a bit concerning

This is the first full year since COVID without out the restrictions. Sure it has some impact but from the headline features video is that the studio has expanded. They have health accounts with 5m profit last 2 years.

Even if the headline features are mostly QoL improvements, i do hope that alot of fixes have been completed in the background which will be noted in the blogs.

Disappointed that the blog on the ME was pretty bare on fixes 

 

[themadsheep2001]

Just now, aj6658 said:

Yeah this is a bit concerning

This is the first full year since COVID without out the restrictions. Sure it has some impact but from the headline features video is that the studio has expanded. They have health accounts with 5m profit last 2 years.

Even if the headline features are mostly QoL improvements, i do hope that alot of fixes have been completed in the background which will be noted in the blogs.

Disappointed that the blog on the ME was pretty bare on fixes 

 

QoL fixes like you'd see in a update patch list pretty much never feature in the blogs

[bahmet]

Judging by the fact that the new functions represented juniors, everything is bad.

[Druid DR]

57 minutes ago, Double0Seven said:

I cant believe all of these graphics discussions. The same ones were happening 5 years ago complaning about graphics and pulling up specs comparing it to other games. Its like nothing has changed. Thats crazy. And sad. 

It's even more crazy and sad when you realise the graphics 5 years ago where much better than what they are now.  FM17 looks like it was done by a completely different studio to the 5 versions that followed it.

I can't recall any other game from any genre where its graphics took a huge step backwards from one version to the next - that being FM17 to FM18 - and then still haven't gotten back to how good they were 5 versions later.

[rp1966]

31 minutes ago, Druid DR said:

I can't recall any other game from any genre where its graphics took a huge step backwards from one version to the next - that being FM17 to FM18 - and then still haven't gotten back to how good they were 5 versions later.

The only one I can think of is Sim City, which went from isometric 3D in SC4 to full 3D in SC5* and took a big hit in graphical detail due to the fact that models and textures couldn't be as detailed when they needed to be rendered in a 3D engine compared to being pre-rendered in SC4 (they also screwed up gameplay, but that's a different issue) - it cost them dearly with the result that Sim City is no more and Cities: Skylines, who got 3D and gameplay right, now rules the city builder roost.

* not quite the same as FM due to the technology change. I really can't fathom the FM17 to FM18 change or how anyone signed it off.

Edited October 7, 2022 by rp1966

[BuzzR]

10 hours ago, Daveincid said:

I don't think it's about defending lower-end setups. Football Manager can even heating up my whole office with my high-end AMD 5950x. So the game itself is very "flexible" for every PC/Laptop configuration to push it's limits if you load demanding setups.

So I don't see an issue if FM is also supported on a toaster as long as it is also capable of setting my 5950x under fire.

There is still a major benefit of having high-end CPU's for Football Manager. Feel free to check the benchmark (especially benchmark D) here:

 

 

I think you didn't understand my point. I have no issue with the game supporting toasters / potatoes as recommended hardware.

My issue is that every year we hear the same mantra of " We cannot improve graphics because of lower-end PCs" and people are still buying this argument when it's obviously not true. 

If these toasters could run FM17 back in the day then the same toasters would run a decent improved FM2X. Because right now FM18 to FM22 and FM23 are behind FM17 regarding graphics.

And again honestly, realistically .. who's crawling slowly to death with a Intel Core 2 playing FM ? NO one. So we are not talking about these kind of toasters.

We are talking about toasters from last 7-10 years. If they can run FM22 right now, why can't these toaster run a game with improved graphics engine , with lower settings ? lower setting to the level of the beautiful graphics of FM22 with trees made of 8 pixels.

This argument of lower-end PCs when we talk about graphics has to stop man. It's not the stopper. It's insulting.

You can talk about this in regards of processing, AI everything else but the graphics.

They have to invest money for art, animation, design etc. and they do not want that. That's the stopper. 

 

And please, please .. your PC is heating up your room because of the 180k players in 55 Countries that you've loaded that burn through your i5. This has nothing to do with ME graphics.

[grade]

I'm biases, since the first integration of the 3D, it should have aimed to more FIFA (or whatever is going o called in the future) standards. Let me go ahead and not have people waste there time: BUT "FM isn't FIFA!" or "What SI should focus on, not FIFA-like graphics or 100 animations for a bicycle kick or other cosmetic fluff." or "FM is about the manager part." This is only a few of thousands and thousands of phrases out there defending FM, no matter what. For me the biggest issue of 3D is quite simple, doesn't look real to me. Its like watching Actual Soccer with better graphics. I mean, I get enthusiastic and enjoy to see highlights of Sensible Soccer (90's game) on youtube that actual seeing highlights from any Football Manager game. Yeah, I'm a 2D guy, and SI managed to downgrade that. Top Eleven 3D is far from perfect, has lot of things I have issues with, but for me the fluidity seems more realistic. So yes, I think Top Eleven had better 3D graphics then FM. its what you get when the head of SI has the goal for one main features of the game is so low, that he stated FIFA graphics isn't their goal.

 

Regarding just having headline features announced, for over a week and nothing else, I'm on the fence. At one side, I don't expect nothing exciting or new to FM23. A few improvements here and there. Then we are going to finally have information about other versions, but somehow will not answer some questions raised in the forums. Nothing new there, either. On the other side, I expect more, a lot more announcements and features.
To be fair, if this is the aim of these kind of features, save your money. Make a date release announcement, when pre-orders are available. Then have a few blog posts, a few feature trailers about a week or so before the release of the beta, announcing new improvements and call it a day. Have just, a 40 minute video, when you release Woman's football quality features. I think that is release game plan. You will have pre-orders without any new features announced, anyway. It will be awesome opportunity for Miles to do whatever he did on his twitter... still don't know if it was to say thanks to the fans or to shut up critics... Nor will I loose sleep over this. One of those mysteries of the universe, i guess.

Edited October 7, 2022 by grade

[themadsheep2001]

SI have actively been recruiting more artists designers and animators (among other staff) over the last few years so to say they don't want to is simply wrong. 

[Daveincid]

vor einer Stunde schrieb BuzzR:

I think you didn't understand my point. I have no issue with the game supporting toasters / potatoes as recommended hardware.

My issue is that every year we hear the same mantra of " We cannot improve graphics because of lower-end PCs" and people are still buying this argument when it's obviously not true. 

If these toasters could run FM17 back in the day then the same toasters would run a decent improved FM2X. Because right now FM18 to FM22 and FM23 are behind FM17 regarding graphics.

And again honestly, realistically .. who's crawling slowly to death with a Intel Core 2 playing FM ? NO one. So we are not talking about these kind of toasters.

We are talking about toasters from last 7-10 years. If they can run FM22 right now, why can't these toaster run a game with improved graphics engine , with lower settings ? lower setting to the level of the beautiful graphics of FM22 with trees made of 8 pixels.

This argument of lower-end PCs when we talk about graphics has to stop man. It's not the stopper. It's insulting.

You can talk about this in regards of processing, AI everything else but the graphics.

They have to invest money for art, animation, design etc. and they do not want that. That's the stopper. 

 

And please, please .. your PC is heating up your room because of the 180k players in 55 Countries that you've loaded that burn through your i5. This has nothing to do with ME graphics.

Only SI got the data, so if they come to the conclusion that it will be worth the financial investments I'm pretty sure they will do it. Anyways, I've put my 2 cents about this topic here.

 

[saiyaman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't the console versions have FM Touch and not the full fat version?

If so, then SI doesn't even trust modern cut down PCs to run the full fat version. This should be the solution to those "What about my old PC I got last decade".

FM Touch should be the way forward for ancient configurations.

FM Full should continue to pave forward for innovations.

I see this as the only solution to the forum fighting with FM being designed for old machines vs FM being designed for new machines.

[grade]

21 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

SI have actively been recruiting more artists designers and animators (among other staff) over the last few years so to say they don't want to is simply wrong. 

Let's us see if things improve more that now are more people at SI. But I'm ain't holding my breath.