FM23 Headline Features Revealed

[alian62]

Im going to wait for FM24 . Once the women's game comes into it I can then see an explosion of graphic and ME quality.  FM23 for me is not giving me enough for a purchase at this stage.  I think everyone at SI are more focused on FM24 and just are using FM23 as a game for small improvements.  I dont see licencing as a new feature or the managers timeline which is actually there anyway . Its been well documented on these forums about stadium graphics since FM17 yet 5 years and MEH no real strides forward. So much micro managing makes the game a chore rather than enjoyable and then they dump FM Touch from PC'S ? 4 weeks to go but disappointed at this stage . Cant see FM23 topping any other game in the series 

Edited October 6, 2022 by prot651

[alian62]

So the UEFA licences are now included but what about the AFC  , CAf etc 

[Powermonger]

6 hours ago, aj6658 said:

Do agree with this. Modern games have moved on significantly but SI are very much being held back by people who dont upgrade their laptops so some will have old machines with integrated crappy graphics.

 

I think the problem with trying to continue to support players with very old machines means you cannot make the brave decisions for the franchise and entice new players to buy the game.

Even in corporate business, continuing to support legacy systems (hardware or software) costs you more in the end due to inefficiencies. 

[DementedHammer]

I wonder if there will be a big FM hardware requirements jump when Windows 10 hits its EOL, as a lot of the old hardware will no longer by supported for use with Windows 11.

In theory, old hardware will become less of an issue at that point. (Assuming that the majority of their old hardware user base is running Windows of course.) 

Edited October 6, 2022 by DementedHammer

[rusty217]

1 hour ago, DementedHammer said:

I wonder if there will be a big FM hardware requirements jump when Windows 10 hits its EOL, as a lot of the old hardware will no longer by supported for use with Windows 11.

In theory, old hardware will become less of an issue at that point. (Assuming that the majority of their old hardware user base is running Windows of course.) 

That's surely very distant future though, no? FM23 is currently listed as requiring Windows 7 or above. So we're probably over a decade away from the end of W10 support.

[HUNT3R]

7 hours ago, ryanlion28 said:

That's a shame, are similar kinds of updates going to come elsewhere?

Miles said there will be blogs via FMFC this year.

 

[rapking67]

Planner, recruitment and agent interactions are pretty massive updates to bring it in line with what scouting looks like at clubs. How it changes the mechanics of gameplay will be another matter but the realism is there.

router login

pikashow

Edited February 9, 2023 by rapking67

[DP]

13 minutes ago, rapking67 said:

Planner, recruitment and agent interactions are pretty massive updates to bring it in line with what scouting looks like at clubs. How it changes the mechanics of gameplay will be another matter but the realism is there.

Planner is an editable squad depth screen, agent interactions don’t look particularly fun - why not just show this info once the player is scouted rather than a new ‘interaction’ screen, it’s just extra clicks?

Interested in recruitment as scouting needed an overhaul tbf. 

[aj6658]

Really hoping that the QoL changes are being moved to the main website rather than from miles because the improvements are going to be bigger/ more substantial.

 

[forameuss]

6 hours ago, Powermonger said:

I think the problem with trying to continue to support players with very old machines means you cannot make the brave decisions for the franchise and entice new players to buy the game.

Even in corporate business, continuing to support legacy systems (hardware or software) costs you more in the end due to inefficiencies. 

I'd argue that this mythical massive group of potential fans of the game who would want to buy the game but don't for whatever reason just doesn't exist, at least not in anywhere near the sort of numbers that would warrant excising what seems to be a sizeable proportion of the user base.  I fully expect that ending support for older machines would lose far more customers than the improvements would gain.

[aj6658]

42 minutes ago, forameuss said:

I'd argue that this mythical massive group of potential fans of the game who would want to buy the game but don't for whatever reason just doesn't exist, at least not in anywhere near the sort of numbers that would warrant excising what seems to be a sizeable proportion of the user base.  I fully expect that ending support for older machines would lose far more customers than the improvements would gain.

Football is the most popular sport in the world. If we take Fifa 22 it sold 9m in its first month (cant actually find YTD sales). In July 22, FM22 sold broke the 1m barrier.  So Fifa basically sells 9x in its first month than FM does in a year. 

https://www.pcgamesn.com/football-manager-2021/football-manager-sales - this suggests that there has been 33m sales for 15 FM games so around 2.2m.

 

Regardless, FM is a niche game so lets say they sell 2m a year. The amount of people who chat about football and football tactics is massive and so more people own some sort of computer vs a console.

Think the issue graphics. Say what you will graphics is what consumers see first. Im at the stage where I cant play fallout 3 because it just looks too dated to me. If a consumer saw these graphics they would think its a poorly made game or just turned off by it. They wouldn't take that first step to experiencing the game and getting hooked.

 

If FM sells 2m a year there is an achievable goal of 4m. Issue is, what is the demographic of people playing the game now. They need new players coming in. Think things like gamepads will help

 

[grade]

7 hours ago, Powermonger said:

I think the problem with trying to continue to support players with very old machines means you cannot make the brave decisions for the franchise and entice new players to buy the game.

Even in corporate business, continuing to support legacy systems (hardware or software) costs you more in the end due to inefficiencies. 

FM23 is only 64 bit, it is not the first version to be 64 bits as minimum requirements, so that alone, cuts most people with old laptops and PCs. it is not in terms of legacy systems, but the argument should be more inclined of lower spec computers. Those entry level, small laptops, kind of systems.

4 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Miles said there will be blogs via FMFC this year.

 

Okay, so at this pace, just one to three blog posts until the beta is released?

It's been a week since the headline feature video was released. There has been no new news since then. We are about 3 weeks since the launch of the Beta.

Edited October 6, 2022 by grade

[FM1000]

2 hours ago, grade said:

FM23 is only 64 bit, it is not the first version to be 64 bits as minimum requirements, so that alone, cuts most people with old laptops and PCs. it is not in terms of legacy systems, but the argument should be more inclined of lower spec computers. Those entry level, small laptops, kind of systems.

Okay, so at this pace, just one to three blog posts until the beta is released?

It's been a week since the headline feature video was released. There has been no new news since then. We are about 3 weeks since the launch of the Beta.

Maybe there aren't many other things that they can announce?

Like I said I think all of their development is focused on woman's football for the 5 guys (including Miles) that want to play that...

I think this will backfire unless there are massive improvements for the animations and graphic for men's football...

 Because if they put out another game with outdated graphics, but the main focus of that game is woman's football....I can't imagine the reaction on this forum 

[forameuss]

21 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

Maybe there aren't many other things that they can announce?

Like I said I think all of their development is focused on woman's football for the 5 guys (including Miles) that want to play that...

I think this will backfire unless there are massive improvements for the animations and graphic for men's football...

 Because if they put out another game with outdated graphics, but the main focus of that game is woman's football....I can't imagine the reaction on this forum 

Yeah, imagine they deliver essentially a completely new game mode and experience, but still have graphics that you don't even really need to see if you don't want to.  Wouldn't that be just awful...

Something tells me you're projecting just a wee bit here.

[aj6658]

10 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Yeah, imagine they deliver essentially a completely new game mode and experience, but still have graphics that you don't even really need to see if you don't want to.  Wouldn't that be just awful...

Something tells me you're projecting just a wee bit here.

The issue is the game needs major upgrades

• Graphics are what consumers see first so to get more players and more money to invest this needs to be addressed. The fact that the fidelity of the game as decreased since Fm17 is unacceptable. At a minimum we should be seeing Fifa 2004 graphics. 
• ME needs alot of work. Its need a range of viable attacks is not currently possible. Needs a ground up rethink of how it works which is a massive undertaking.
• AI needs so much investment. I want to play against an AI that doesn't hoard players but think about squad building. An AI manager who actually think about the tactics and squad selection. 

alot of these require massive investment and massive time. Women's football should be added to the game but currently money should be spent on fixing the game.Even in SI post about it they acknowledge it would cost millions to do and they want to do it right which is the right way of doing it but when the core game and the fanbase have been asking for big investment to be put into the game is a bit disrespectful to them by ignoring them to pursue womens football first. 

 

 

 

 

[saihtam]

44 minutes ago, FM1000 said:

Maybe there aren't many other things that they can announce?

Like I said I think all of their development is focused on woman's football for the 5 guys (including Miles) that want to play that...

I think this will backfire unless there are massive improvements for the animations and graphic for men's football...

 Because if they put out another game with outdated graphics, but the main focus of that game is woman's football....I can't imagine the reaction on this forum 

I like that they are brining womens football into the game. But that does not give them the excuse to reduce new stuff next year. If we are looking this purely from the view of the game, the womans football biggest resource from SI should be the database, collecting all the info all over the leagues they will cover, reworking the league structures and playtest it. And next big thing is to rework player models from male to female.  It is HUGE thing to have female football in the game. It is very big step in terms of the game yes. But there is no core changes that should be incopriated to the womans football. I doubt they will rework the AI or match engine specificly to the womans football.

 

I am glad to see min specs are getting more talked about. The belt is so tight for using old hardware as minimul requirments. We are not here talking about processing the game or how it looks. They are holding themselfes back how much and what they can write into the AI and ME, there is definetly limit of how many features on features they can insert to the game. Thats why new feature year after year have gone down in their scope and feeling more as a filler. I undersetand the need for having the playerbase from older hardware, thats why we dont leap in this regards. We can add somewhat sliders for graphics but we cant do it for ME. The risky but logical step would have two versions. Just like we already have with touch and full PC version(btw the current ME must run on tablet hardware... this already is blocking point for FM future evolution). Have the touch version for the lower end PC and move a bit step ahead with new version. It definetly be hard to maintain these two versions, but it maybe would act as transitsion plan for few years.

Ofcourse all is not easy and clear like said. But it just feels after more than decade playing FM, being in tech field, playing games and watching the development of them. Then compare this to the evolution that FM has done, feels lacking.   

[TioPatinhax]

2 minutos atrás, aj6658 disse:

Women's football should be added to the game but currently money should be spent on fixing the game

We all know they arent spending any of that money on improving the parts you mentioned, but instead will spend it on this "fantastic and inclusive" new addition that is women´s football. My prediction made when they announced women´s football will become true, unfortunately (but predictably).

[forameuss]

5 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

The issue is the game needs major upgrades

• Graphics are what consumers see first so to get more players and more money to invest this needs to be addressed. The fact that the fidelity of the game as decreased since Fm17 is unacceptable. At a minimum we should be seeing Fifa 2004 graphics. 
• ME needs alot of work. Its need a range of viable attacks is not currently possible. Needs a ground up rethink of how it works which is a massive undertaking.
• AI needs so much investment. I want to play against an AI that doesn't hoard players but think about squad building. An AI manager who actually think about the tactics and squad selection. 

alot of these require massive investment and massive time. Women's football should be added to the game but currently money should be spent on fixing the game.Even in SI post about it they acknowledge it would cost millions to do and they want to do it right which is the right way of doing it but when the core game and the fanbase have been asking for big investment to be put into the game is a bit disrespectful to them by ignoring them to pursue womens football first. 

Which would be fine if they hadn't already said a number of times that the focus on the women's football feature is basically sitting in a different pot of resources unrelated to the main game.  And I'm not sure how they can be "disrespectful" in choosing the direction of their own product.  It's not compulsory to buy it, that's your job as a consumer to decide whether you agree with their direction.

Ultimately the problem with the post I replied to isn't the not being interested in women's football as a feature.  I imagine there's going to be loads of people in that boat.  Saying "I'm not interested in women's football" is absolutely fine.  Continually - because this isn't the first time - talking about how no-one else will be interested is something else entirely.  For me the addition of a completely new way of playing will probably be the best addition they've made in a long, long time, and would trump a lot of the things that people talk about as being "essential".  Difference is, I don't pretend like that opinion is somehow the consensus through some weird dislike of women's football.

[aj6658]

12 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Which would be fine if they hadn't already said a number of times that the focus on the women's football feature is basically sitting in a different pot of resources unrelated to the main game.  And I'm not sure how they can be "disrespectful" in choosing the direction of their own product.  It's not compulsory to buy it, that's your job as a consumer to decide whether you agree with their direction.

Ultimately the problem with the post I replied to isn't the not being interested in women's football as a feature.  I imagine there's going to be loads of people in that boat.  Saying "I'm not interested in women's football" is absolutely fine.  Continually - because this isn't the first time - talking about how no-one else will be interested is something else entirely.  For me the addition of a completely new way of playing will probably be the best addition they've made in a long, long time, and would trump a lot of the things that people talk about as being "essential".  Difference is, I don't pretend like that opinion is somehow the consensus through some weird dislike of women's football.

Where has this other pot come from? Its all the same money, they just allocated it to the women game vs other areas. They could easily go they have a pot of resources for redevelopment of the ME

Its disrespectful because there have been changes that the community have asked for for years (Graphics update, set piece editor, genpressing not being OP, international football). The fact that these are just the quick off the top of my head examples that have been asked for years. There will be countless other bugs that have been in the game for years but never fixed. 

Its their own product but we, the consumer are the ones who allow them to make that product. If we didn't buy the game they wouldn't exist. If they started adding mini games to the game and added a first person mode would you not have an issue with at because its their own product and choosing the direction? 

 

Edit: Should make clear, im all for the womens game and should be added. My issue is that the game has stagnated a bit to the point that to see real change you would have to do a 3 year cycle. If you played FM21, there hasn't been massive improvements from that to what has been announced for Fm23 based on "headline" features so might as well wait for FM24.

Adding the womens game isn't gonna shift the needle in sales. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by aj6658

[priority76]

3 hours ago, grade said:

We are about 3 weeks since the launch of the Beta.

I hope not.  If it's not out two weeks today, I'm going to have a breakdown.

[KillYourIdols]

2 minutes ago, priority76 said:

I hope not.  If it's not out two weeks today, I'm going to have a breakdown.

[Erimus1876]

15 hours ago, priority76 said:

Yeah absolutely.  Looking at the pretty graphics or "immersion" is huge for me.  I'm sure there were numerous other things wrong with FM22 but nothing bothered me nearly as much as this.  It's perhaps even more frustrating that's it's been an issue for five years and would be so easy to fix.

Looking at which posts in this thread (and elsewhere) that have gained the most upvotes (some posts with 50+ which is pretty rare!), I don't think the people asking for better graphics and stadiums etc are a minority anymore.  Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, yes, but there's definitely a growing frustration from more and more players at the failure of SI to improve the 3D matchday experience. 

[forameuss]

17 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Where has this other pot come from? Its all the same money, they just allocated it to the women game vs other areas. They could easily go they have a pot of resources for redevelopment of the ME

You'd have to ask SI about the first part.  Second part is wild conjecture.  I believe it's been hinted that this pot was separated and contingent on only being used on that, so it wouldn't have been available otherwise.  

19 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Its their own product but we, the consumer are the ones who allow them to make that product. If we didn't buy the game they wouldn't exist.

If they started adding mini games to the game and added a first person mode would you not have an issue with at because its their own product and choosing the direction? 

Well here's an idea, if you're so powerful and the sole reason for why they exist, how about you maybe don't buy the game and send a message that way?  If it makes a difference, then you're right, and if it doesn't, then maybe SI know quite a bit about the direction they feel is best for the game to go rather than cherry-picking single opinions.

And as for the second part, you know what I'd do?  I'd stop buying the game.  That's the power as consumer.  FM's been on the very edge of being a worthwhile buy for me for a while.  It's probably just about scraped through again this year.  Just.  FIFA would've been an auto-buy for a while, but they're utterly shameless in their approach, so I haven't bought the past few editions.  It's really not hard.

22 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Adding the womens game isn't gonna shift the needle in sales. 

I dare say it'll make at least as much difference as improving the graphics* would, and likely more.

 

 

* insert your own personal feature du jour here

[TioPatinhax]

13 minutos atrás, Erimus1876 disse:

Looking at which posts in this thread (and elsewhere) that have gained the most upvotes (some posts with 50+ which is pretty rare!), I don't think the people asking for better graphics and stadiums etc are a minority anymore.  Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, yes, but there's definitely a growing frustration from more and more players at the failure of SI to improve the 3D matchday experience. 

Not having any real competition can lead to this scenario, sadly.

[forameuss]

13 minutes ago, Erimus1876 said:

Looking at which posts in this thread (and elsewhere) that have gained the most upvotes (some posts with 50+ which is pretty rare!), I don't think the people asking for better graphics and stadiums etc are a minority anymore.  Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, yes, but there's definitely a growing frustration from more and more players at the failure of SI to improve the 3D matchday experience. 

Unfortunately the concept of upvotes in this forum is completely tainted by there being no counterpoint.  You could pick a topic, have two people write completely different posts at either extreme and have them both be frankly offensive and they'll both likely get upvotes.

[priority76]

Just now, Erimus1876 said:

Looking at which posts in this thread (and elsewhere) that have gained the most upvotes (some posts with 50+ which is pretty rare!), I don't think the people asking for better graphics and stadiums etc are a minority anymore.  Maybe 4 or 5 years ago, yes, but there's definitely a growing frustration from more and more players at the failure of SI to improve the 3D matchday experience. 

It does look that way and I would love it if the game had graphics to rival Fifa/Pes.  However I don't think the game looks bad as it is. Two simple things they could fix would make a massive difference.  Make all new stadiums have corners and stop the nets flying up and looking stupid when the ball hits them.

[HUNT3R]

38 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Where has this other pot come from? Its all the same money, they just allocated it to the women game vs other areas.

This was mentioned in the blog:

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/how-were-introducing-womens-football-football-manager

Quote

 

I mentioned earlier in the blog that the cost of this project will be substantial. To help offset some of those costs we have already started conversations with some potential commercial partners who share our vision and who will be able to offer financial help in return for a wide integration of their brand into FM.

But we’re also committed to being a commercial partner for women’s football. We have ongoing partnerships with AFC Wimbledon Ladies & Girls and Watford Women as part of our deals with their men’s teams. But that’s not enough. So, today I’m also proud to announce that we’ve signed a commercial partnership agreement for the 2021/22 season with Leicester City Women, which will see FM branding feature on the dugout and interview boards for the club.

 

 

[aj6658]

5 minutes ago, forameuss said:

You'd have to ask SI about the first part.  Second part is wild conjecture.  I believe it's been hinted that this pot was separated and contingent on only being used on that, so it wouldn't have been available otherwise.  

Its not wild conjecture. Its their money. If they siloed it, its mean they have gone and allocated the money and ring fenced it by their choice. Its a sum of money over a few years rather than one 

5 minutes ago, forameuss said:

Well here's an idea, if you're so powerful and the sole reason for why they exist, how about you maybe don't buy the game and send a message that way?  If it makes a difference, then you're right, and if it doesn't, then maybe SI know quite a bit about the direction they feel is best for the game to go rather than cherry-picking single opinions.

errrr sorry, do you think SI would exist without its customers? Never said I solely was the reasoning of their success, I said we the consumer. Pretty embarrassing you cant read 

Can you name one other FM sim out there? I dont want to get into a competition debate but simple fact of the matter is there is no alternative. It scraps through each year like you said below. Manager timeline, nice but headline?!? 

Scouting has had a small change - again headline?!? 

You literally say that FM is on "the very edge of being worthwhile" jheez - what I high bar you set for them. 

 

5 minutes ago, forameuss said:

And as for the second part, you know what I'd do?  I'd stop buying the game.  That's the power as consumer.  FM's been on the very edge of being a worthwhile buy for me for a while.  It's probably just about scraped through again this year.  Just.  FIFA would've been an auto-buy for a while, but they're utterly shameless in their approach, so I haven't bought the past few editions.  It's really not hard.

I dare say it'll make at least as much difference as improving the graphics* would, and likely more.

 

 

* insert your own personal feature du jour here

So agree with me...? cheers 

[aj6658]

3 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

This was mentioned in the blog:

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/how-were-introducing-womens-football-football-manager

 

From reading this, some funding its coming from partners as long as they have their brand integrated into FM

The other money is from women football specific commercial partners. 

So I cans see the 2nd part being contingent on being invested in women football but the 1st seems like more general funding approach 

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

From reading this, some funding its coming from partners as long as they have their brand integrated into FM

The other money is from women football specific commercial partners. 

So I cans see the 2nd part being contingent on being invested in women football but the 1st seems like more general funding approach 

I should have added this key quote:

 

Quote

but rest assured that our plan is to make this happen as soon as we possibly can, whilst ensuring that you are still getting all the features you’d expect from new versions of FM by adding resources to the existing team.

 

[aj6658]

1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

I should have added this key quote:

 

 

I would argue that all the features aren't getting delivered. The general consensus from the headline features review and on here has been tepid to say the least. 

• Scouting has had a UI change - wouldn't all it a headline feature but nice improvement 
• Manager timeline - not a headline feature 
• Commercial branding - Not a big headline features 
• Supporter confidence - from the sounds of it, it isn't that dynamic (need to find the tweet) so its just a shallow add. Still waiting on social media being a key part of the game
• The only big headline feature is AI but this is yet to be seen

What im trying to get across is sure you got money for Women game, why not get those commercial deals to really invest in some of the stuff below 

• ME needs big investment 
• Graphics need major investment. Its worse than 5 years ago
• Set pieces 
• International management (I disagree but seems like people want it) 

These have been asked for YEARs so why aren't they getting the love 

 

[grade]

49 minutes ago, priority76 said:

I hope not.  If it's not out two weeks today, I'm going to have a breakdown.

The game is going to be release on 8th November. The beta is going to be around 2 weeks before release, that points to the 25th October exactly two weeks before the 8th. I predict at the earliest is going to be by 21st or at the latest 28th of this month, you know being weekend and all.

[HUNT3R]

21 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Scouting has had a UI change - wouldn't all it a headline feature but nice improvement 

Scouting has had a revamp which involves much more than just changing the UI. 
 

22 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Manager timeline - not a headline feature

That's arguable and I'd even agree with you on this. It could appeal to others perhaps.

23 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Commercial branding - Not a big headline features 

The CL/EL presentation, graphics, music (I think the draws are also unique for them) etc is a decent addition, imo. It's possibly not something that blows you away, but I think it's fair to include as a headline feature.

25 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

Supporter confidence - from the sounds of it, it isn't that dynamic (need to find the tweet) so its just a shallow add. Still waiting on social media being a key part of the game

I like this. How dynamic is it IRL? I do like seeing the % of hardcore fans. As we know, the size of the crowd and how many hardcore fans a club has, does influence performances.

Quote

The only big headline feature is AI but this is yet to be seen

The AI is a big headline feature. Looking forward to seeing this more.

29 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

ME needs big investment 

We know there's been a lot of work on players' decision making etc, so in addition to having more animations, we might see quite a difference between FM22 and FM23. Looking forward to seeing more, but the ME hasn't been forgotten.

32 minutes ago, aj6658 said:

• Graphics need major investment. Its worse than 5 years ago
• Set pieces 

Definitely agree with you on these 2. Was hoping we'd see something this year, but it doesn't look like it.

You didn't mention the fact that we have a lot more interaction with agents this year, so there's been a fair amount of work in this area as well.

I'm going to wait until I get my hands on the game before making up my mind.

 

[priority76]

55 minutes ago, grade said:

The game is going to be release on 8th November. The beta is going to be around 2 weeks before release, that points to the 25th October exactly two weeks before the 8th. I predict at the earliest is going to be by 21st or at the latest 28th of this month, you know being weekend and all.

Yes but we all know the "8th November" means the evening of the 7th and "around two weeks" means two and half to three weeks.  It doesn't look like it's going to have major changes from FM22 so I'm hopeful (counting on) an early beta release.

[(sic)]

5 hours ago, grade said:

FM23 is only 64 bit, it is not the first version to be 64 bits as minimum requirements, so that alone, cuts most people with old laptops and PCs. it is not in terms of legacy systems, but the argument should be more inclined of lower spec computers. Those entry level, small laptops, kind of systems.

I'd argue that even that isn't true.

Minimum requirements are as follows: CPU = Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 - First one launched in 2008, discontinued in 2012, while the second was launched in 2005, discontinued in 2009. 

                                                                      GPU = Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT, AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 - All 3 being released in 2008.

 

If that doesn't scream outdated then I don't know what else will. But let's get to the other point, the "entry level laptops". I'd say anything under £400 is an entry level laptop, so let's look at one.

 

Doing a quick search, this is what I've stumbled upon. 

First off, the CPU has 8 cores. The problem is, FM just wouldn't utilize all of those cores, because it's outdated, and unoptimized to do so. Still, you should have a CPU that's way faster than something that came out, *checks notes* 14 years ago?
The GPU is around 620% faster than Radeon HD 3650, according to the benchmarks.

It also has 8GB of RAM, and an SSD.

 

So the excuse of aiming for entry level laptops is also bs. Maybe it was a good excuse 5 years ago, but in 2022 it's not. 

 

[grade]

15 minutes ago, (sic) said:

I'd argue that even that isn't true.

Minimum requirements are as follows: CPU = Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 - First one launched in 2008, discontinued in 2012, while the second was launched in 2005, discontinued in 2009. 

                                                                      GPU = Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT, AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 - All 3 being released in 2008.

 

If that doesn't scream outdated then I don't know what else will. But let's get to the other point, the "entry level laptops". I'd say anything under £400 is an entry level laptop, so let's look at one.

 

Doing a quick search, this is what I've stumbled upon. 

First off, the CPU has 8 cores. The problem is, FM just wouldn't utilize all of those cores, because it's outdated, and unoptimized to do so. Still, you should have a CPU that's way faster than something that came out, *checks notes* 14 years ago?
The GPU is around 620% faster than Radeon HD 3650, according to the benchmarks.

It also has 8GB of RAM, and an SSD.

 

So the excuse of aiming for entry level laptops is also bs. Maybe it was a good excuse 5 years ago, but in 2022 it's not. 

 

Makes sense what you said, and totally agree. 

[aj6658]

56 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Scouting has had a revamp which involves much more than just changing the UI. 
 

• Squad planer - Good change and a big QoL improvement
•  Recruitment focuses - its again a QoL improvement. if you take out "near misses" how different is it really from what we already have? Its not a headline feature
• Agents - adding more depth and hopefully no longer having to wait a month to chat to them again. it is an improvement
• Recruitment meetings - less of them and cleans up inbox = QoL

 

All welcome changes but QoL not headline features 

56 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

That's arguable and I'd even agree with you on this. It could appeal to others perhaps.

The CL/EL presentation, graphics, music (I think the draws are also unique for them) etc is a decent addition, imo. It's possibly not something that blows you away, but I think it's fair to include as a headline feature.

Agree with it - its a nice addition but the fact they talked about seeing arm bands as a good thing?! the graphics aren't good enough. Saying things like that screams they got nothing better to talk about.

I get its nice to have the draws and the logos and the winners podium ec.t. but that it such a small part of the game. Its the icing on top not a headline feature. 

56 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I like this. How dynamic is it IRL? I do like seeing the % of hardcore fans. As we know, the size of the crowd and how many hardcore fans a club has, does influence performances.

But it seems like it would be like club vision. Like as long as you're winning it doesn't matter. How much is it gonna impact. Love the graphics but what impact will it have in game rather than a nice screen to have. 

56 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

The AI is a big headline feature. Looking forward to seeing this more.

We know there's been a lot of work on players' decision making etc, so in addition to having more animations, we might see quite a difference between FM22 and FM23. Looking forward to seeing more, but the ME hasn't been forgotten.

Definitely agree with you on these 2. Was hoping we'd see something this year, but it doesn't look like it.

You didn't mention the fact that we have a lot more interaction with agents this year, so there's been a fair amount of work in this area as well.

I'm going to wait until I get my hands on the game before making up my mind.

 

 

TBH at the end of the day, all I really care about is a match engine that makes me think, makes me adapt and then AI who build squads smartly and run clubs well. Anything else at this point is a bonus 

 

I look forward to what improvements they have made in the ME and the fact that AI managers have had a significant amount of time invested in them I hope it filters apparent straight from the off 

[forameuss]

52 minutes ago, (sic) said:

I'd argue that even that isn't true.

Minimum requirements are as follows: CPU = Intel Core 2 or AMD Athlon 64 X2 - First one launched in 2008, discontinued in 2012, while the second was launched in 2005, discontinued in 2009. 

                                                                      GPU = Intel GMA X4500, NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT, AMD/ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 - All 3 being released in 2008.

 

If that doesn't scream outdated then I don't know what else will. But let's get to the other point, the "entry level laptops". I'd say anything under £400 is an entry level laptop, so let's look at one.

 

Doing a quick search, this is what I've stumbled upon. 

First off, the CPU has 8 cores. The problem is, FM just wouldn't utilize all of those cores, because it's outdated, and unoptimized to do so. Still, you should have a CPU that's way faster than something that came out, *checks notes* 14 years ago?
The GPU is around 620% faster than Radeon HD 3650, according to the benchmarks.

It also has 8GB of RAM, and an SSD.

 

So the excuse of aiming for entry level laptops is also bs. Maybe it was a good excuse 5 years ago, but in 2022 it's not. 

 

That would be fine if people were buying new laptops for FM.  People will be playing on laptops they bought ages ago with specs that were probably entry-level back then.

Again, every time this comes up, SI literally have the metrics on this and know exactly what people are playing on.  They've come out and said that people would be surprised what they use.

EDIT: In fact, it might even be more the case now that tablets are so ever-present.   5 years ago you'd probably find people that had a laptop for sitting on the couch with that they might have chucked FM onto every now and then.  Some of those people have probably migrated to iPads and the like because it does pretty much everything they need (apart from that).  Are they going to go out and buy a current laptop just to play FM?  Unlikely.  Particularly if the potato one they used to muck about on still works, and still plays the game.

Edited October 6, 2022 by forameuss

[(sic)]

13 minutes ago, forameuss said:

That would be fine if people were buying new laptops for FM.  People will be playing on laptops they bought ages ago with specs that were probably entry-level back then.

Again, every time this comes up, SI literally have the metrics on this and know exactly what people are playing on.  They've come out and said that people would be surprised what they use.

EDIT: In fact, it might even be more the case now that tablets are so ever-present.   5 years ago you'd probably find people that had a laptop for sitting on the couch with that they might have chucked FM onto every now and then.  Some of those people have probably migrated to iPads and the like because it does pretty much everything they need (apart from that).  Are they going to go out and buy a current laptop just to play FM?  Unlikely.  Particularly if the potato one they used to muck about on still works, and still plays the game.

But if you were to cater to those people forever, the game wouldn't really progress anywhere. As we are seeing currently in some ways.

At what point do you say, okay, we have to raise the minimum requirements in order to improve the game?

As harsh as it may sound, I have no sympathy for those players. They need to upgrade their systems at some point if they want to continue playing. The game is releasing on PS5, for gods sake.

Other games keep constantly improving, and constantly raising the requirements, yet all of us FM players should be held back, because we need to cater to people who use 10 year old laptops.

Nobody cared about me not being able to run new games back in 2014 and 2015, so I bought a new PC in order to play those games. It's really simple.

Edited October 6, 2022 by (sic)

[Piperita]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb HUNT3R:

It won't be happening this year.

I hope this is just to push FMFC or for other "business reasons" and not because Twitter turned out to be a toxic cesspool.

[themadsheep2001]

11 minutes ago, (sic) said:

But if you were to cater to those people forever, the game wouldn't really progress anywhere. As we are seeing currently in some ways.

At what point do you say, okay, we have to raise the minimum requirements in order to improve the game?

As harsh as it may sound, I have no sympathy for those players. They need to upgrade their systems at some point if they want to continue playing. The game is releasing on PS5, for gods sake.

Other games keep constantly improving, and constantly raising the requirements, yet all of us FM players should be held back, because we need to cater to people who use 10 year old laptops.

Nobody cared about me not being able to run new games back in 2014 and 2015, so I bought a new PC in order to play those games. It's really simple.

You might not care, but SI have to, because its a very sizeable chunk of their player base. It's not like when it was when they dropped linux because less than 2% of the base were on it.

But none of thoughts on this are new tbh. Of course SI think about what is required to push various bits forwards, and how to integrate that into timeframes and spec demands etc

[(sic)]

7 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

You might not care, but SI have to, because its a very sizeable chunk of their player base. It's not like when it was when they dropped linux because less than 2% of the base were on it

I do realize that. But the question is, for how long are they going to do it? Until people gradually stop using those old systems? Why should people change their laptops anyways, when they don't have to fear about system requirements going up?

We might go into 2030 with same system requirements, graphics not looking much better, and the engine/ME holding the game back. 

It's 2022, and it's about time SI had made some radical changes, and revamping certain things like graphics, the engine, etc. We can't go on like this forever.

Edited October 6, 2022 by (sic)

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, (sic) said:

I do realize that. But the question is, for how long are they going to do it? Until people gradually stop using those old systems? Why should people change their laptops anyways, when they don't have to fear about system requirements going up?

We might go into 2030 with same system requirements, graphics not looking much better, and the engine/ME holding the game back. 

It's 2022, and it's about time SI had made some radical changes, and revamping certain things like graphics, the engine, etc. We can't go on like this forever.

For as long as it makes business and game sense

[aj6658]

SI have the numbers of what machines players are playing on. Quite clear that there is a large player base that have less capable machines. Without a doubt that an eye on improvements to anything has the thought of if it could actually work on those machines.

 

Theres only a few options 

1. Optimise as much as possible so new additions and improvements work on less power machines 
2. Cut the player base and shift the minimum requirements 
3. Have two versions of the game. A normal standard version of FM and then a premium version of the game that requires a higher standard of machine and costs more. Lets you capture more markets 

[gunner86]

16 minutes ago, (sic) said:

But if you were to cater to those people forever, the game wouldn't really progress anywhere. As we are seeing currently in some ways.

At what point do you say, okay, we have to raise the minimum requirements in order to improve the game?

As harsh as it may sound, I have no sympathy for those players. They need to upgrade their systems at some point if they want to continue playing. The game is releasing on PS5, for gods sake.

Other games keep constantly improving, and constantly raising the requirements, yet all of us FM players should be held back, because we need to cater to people who use 10 year old laptops.

Nobody cared about me not being able to run new games back in 2014 and 2015, so I bought a new PC in order to play those games. It's really simple.

But someone that only plays FM on that PC simply isn’t going to do that. And why would they? They could spend £400 now on an entry level PC, that in 5 years is obsolete again, because everyone on gaming rigs they use has demanded the game takes another generational leap, means they end up paying basically £120 a year for a £40 a year game.

like @themadsheep2001 says, SI knows what people are using.

hopefully, now the game is available across so many different platforms, a substantial amount of players on lower spec machines migrates to another way of playing, meaning that they can move up the minimum specs without making a business decision that ultimately raises costs for everyone.

[themadsheep2001]

I'll try and see if @Neil Brock is not too crazy busy and around to elaborate, but a good chunk of the FM user base aren't your typical gamers, they often only play FM. And if anyone wants see how often this happens anecdotally, have a look at the laptop and PC thread, people constantly looking for the cheapest laptop good enough to play FM, often stating they don't need it for anything else apart from that and work. Now if they represented 1,2, 5%, you could make that gamble, when its significantly more, that's a problem, and that's where @gunner86is spot on with migrating people away to different platforms, organically moving people away, without necessarily losing a big market chunk

[aj6658]

4 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

I'll try and see if @Neil Brock is not too crazy busy and around to elaborate, but a good chunk of the FM user base aren't your typical gamers, they often only play FM. And if anyone wants see how often this happens anecdotally, have a look at the laptop and PC thread, people constantly looking for the cheapest laptop good enough to play FM, often stating they don't need it for anything else apart from that and work. Now if they represented 1,2, 5%, you could make that gamble, when its significantly more, that's a problem, and that's where @gunner86is spot on with migrating people away to different platforms, organically moving people away, without necessarily losing a big market chunk

At the end of the day its a business. To be able to make more games they need to be profitable in quite a niche market.

As a counter point, if people are looking for the cheapest laptop to play FM, then there would be population who would invest in a better machine so they can play if the min spec increased? In the current economic environment maybe not.

One argument could be made is that maybe get those one lower spec machines to use gamepass - is the processing completed off site?

[themadsheep2001]

1 minute ago, aj6658 said:

At the end of the day its a business. To be able to make more games they need to be profitable in quite a niche market.

As a counter point, if people are looking for the cheapest laptop to play FM, then there would be population who would invest in a better machine so they can play if the min spec increased? In the current economic environment maybe not.

One argument could be made is that maybe get those one lower spec machines to use gamepass - is the processing completed off site?

I've not played FM on gamepass but on the experience of every other game I have played on gamepass, the processing would be done on the machine. So it doesn't get round the spec demands 

[Piperita]

The thing about system stats is that it can not capture the full realities of the userbase.

For example, I am one of the people playing on a potato on minimal settings. My hardware probably is below the requirements. But it still runs fast enough for me and I don't care about the look of the matches. I want to see if the movements work, what kind of goals I score, and not be bored by the exact same animations over and over. For that my old system is good enough (with only the low resolution hurting) and so I use it out of convenience. It just is the most transportable!

My (also old but expensive enough to still be usable) gaming laptop is heavy, connected to way too many cables, and uses external cooling. I can not that easily use it to play in bed or the living room or while my job is stalled compiling. The same is even more true for my desktop computer. With my dozens of custom views and at least three concurrently running saves, it also is a hassle to play on multiple systems as I constantly have to export/import and between HD/Full HD/QHD not everything works on all three. 

If the minimum requirements changed, I could easily continue playing on my heavier systems and would consider upgrading somewhere down the line to regain the old convenience. But as long as it works fast enough (the league setup says 4 1/2 stars with three leagues and no background activity, 3 1/2 with a browser open) why change to the heavier systems right now? In the books I am a "Potato player we might lose" but in reality I am a player who just uses the system most suited to the current requirements.

[gunner86]

10 minutes ago, Piperita said:

The thing about system stats is that it can not capture the full realities of the userbase.

For example, I am one of the people playing on a potato on minimal settings. My hardware probably is below the requirements. But it still runs fast enough for me and I don't care about the look of the matches. I want to see if the movements work, what kind of goals I score, and not be bored by the exact same animations over and over. For that my old system is good enough (with only the low resolution hurting) and so I use it out of convenience. It just is the most transportable!

My (also old but expensive enough to still be usable) gaming laptop is heavy, connected to way too many cables, and uses external cooling. I can not that easily use it to play in bed or the living room or while my job is stalled compiling. The same is even more true for my desktop computer. With my dozens of custom views and at least three concurrently running saves, it also is a hassle to play on multiple systems as I constantly have to export/import and between HD/Full HD/QHD not everything works on all three. 

If the minimum requirements changed, I could easily continue playing on my heavier systems and would consider upgrading somewhere down the line to regain the old convenience. But as long as it works fast enough (the league setup says 4 1/2 stars with three leagues and no background activity, 3 1/2 with a browser open) why change to the heavier systems right now? In the books I am a "Potato player we might lose" but in reality I am a player who just uses the system most suited to the current requirements.

Yeah, that's true.

So I'm kind of another example of that. I play on Steam on a laptop, but I do also own an Xbox, so in theory, if my laptop did not support FM anymore, I could use that. I won't - primarily because I like to watch TV while playing, there's no editor, and no mods - but in theory I could. That will also be true of others, same as your situation will be. Are we in the majority? I have no idea. My assumption, based on FM players is, my situation is more common than yours, but still not the majority.

The risk for SI is, if they cut out too many players, they have to increase the game price to cover the cost of the staff needed to make all these improvements that people want (I include myself in that more and more each year). Would everyone be willing to pay £10 more for the game each year? I would, but then I log around 1000 hours most years. Again, this will be true of other players, but there would surely be more casual players that wouldn't be willing to pay more - so again, revenue is lost.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, they need to find some way to find a balance. Personally, I feel that they have been trying to make moves in the right direction - they made changes either last year or the year before optimising save and load speeds. For now, I'm happy enough with the way the game is going to keep giving them my money.