Android Disappointment

[Nickg2424]

I just want to comment on my serious upset and disappointment with football manager.Having just read that FM23 is returning to the apple ipad that leaves android without a serious and proper version of the game (FM mobile is abysmal and awful and I don't acknowledge it) 

What have these guys got against those that own android tablets,their reasoning for not doing the touch on the devices is laughable and ridiculous.

Last year was the first time that I did not play FM in 15 years and I really missed it.

[lcutini]

3 hours ago, Nickg2424 said:

FM mobile is abysmal and awful and I don't acknowledge it

What do you have against mobile? Perhaps you should give it another go as I find it to be thoroughly enjoyable and gives me everything I need in a football management simulation. 

[Marc Vaughan]

I am sorry to hear you don't enjoy the mobile game - with regards to FMT appearing on Android in the future, that will be a purely business decision and whether you wish to play the mobile game in the short-term is obviously your own choice.

PS - If you've never played the mobile game then I'd recommend you give it a whirl, it probably has a lot more depth than you realize - much of it is actually based on earlier versions of our PC products.

[Jpwcanyon]

I cant even watch 3d matches... all I see are dots running around. I'm using galaxy s22ultra...

[Nickg2424]

44 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

I am sorry to hear you don't enjoy the mobile game - with regards to FMT appearing on Android in the future, that will be a purely business decision and whether you wish to play the mobile game in the short-term is obviously your own choice.

PS - If you've never played the mobile game then I'd recommend you give it a whirl, it probably has a lot more depth than you realize - much of it is actually based on earlier versions of our PC products.

I've played the mobile version and it does not even come close to the touch version,having to watch the match being played with big dots is an insult when compared to how the match plays out on touch.

What you and your company have against android tablet users is odd to say the least (I don't buy the whole business decision story)  There are a lot of unhappy and disappointed people like me out there I can tell you.

 

[Nickg2424]

28 minutes ago, Jpwcanyon said:

I cant even watch 3d matches... all I see are dots running around. I'm using galaxy s22ultra...

It's a joke isn't it.I mean to have that kind of thing on a game in 2022 is beyond a joke.They just don't give a monkeys about us lot on Android.

[Nickg2424]

1 hour ago, lcutini said:

What do you have against mobile? Perhaps you should give it another go as I find it to be thoroughly enjoyable and gives me everything I need in a football management simulation. 

I've played it.Its just not good enough when compared to the touch version.

That's fine that you like it and I'm sure there are many others out there who like it to but there are many out there who don't like it.

[Marc Vaughan]

40 minutes ago, Nickg2424 said:

I've played the mobile version and it does not even come close to the touch version,having to watch the match being played with big dots is an insult when compared to how the match plays out on touch.

Cool - glad you've at least given it a whirl, I can understand your reasoning if the most important thing for you is the 3d match. Long-term I hope to bring that visual system into FMM, but its not feasible in the short-term (sorry).

40 minutes ago, Nickg2424 said:

What you and your company have against android tablet users is odd to say the least (I don't buy the whole business decision story)  There are a lot of unhappy and disappointed people like me out there I can tell you.

The studio has nothing against Android users, I definitely myself don't as I implemented the first android product the studio ever did (which was a version of FMM).

I can't go into the business decisions (as that isn't my area), but from a developer perspective I can indicate that making products for Android is very challenging in comparison to most other platforms. This obviously factors into the expense of development and support for those products.

A few reasons behind this:
* Most platforms only have a few OS versions active (very few iOS users aren't running the latest version of the OS, a large amount of android users lag behind the latest versions).
* Most platforms have a finite number of devices supported upon them - for instance on iOS there are a few dozen variants, on Xbox there are maybe a half-dozen. Android has literally thousands of devices which have to be supported. 
* No 'central' OS. Android varies according to the region, manufacturer and device that it is being run upon. This means that code written for one handset might not work upon another handset which is nearly identical in nature. For example on FMM one of the challenges I've had in the past is detecting handsets from certain asian countries which have 8 processors, but only one which has any real 'grunt' behind it, if this is the case it is vital that the game is active within the right processor or the performance is subpar. Ascertaining each of these race conditions and the reasons behind them is incredibly challenging and time consuming because it is impossible for us to have every one of 20,000+ devices available in house. 

As with everything in life its entirely up to you whether to accept my explanation or not, but I'll continue to try and be open and available to peoples questions as much as possible.

PS - I would suggest you post in the relevant forum to your commentary rather than the FMM forum if the idea is to get support for your viewpoint and concerns and to show support for the Android platform itself. - FMT Forum

[freakydancin]

Fantastic reply @Marc Vaughan, very incitful. I do understand peoples frustrations. I personally have played the game since day 1 (Champ Man). Having being used to the full game for so many years, but then unable to enjoy the game due to time constraints from real life, Touch was the perfect solution. The mobile game is probably the best football manager sim out there but having being used to the full game for so long, it felt like something was missing, Touch filled this void. I actually purchased an android tablet specifically to play FMT21 (don't tell the missus, she thinks it's from work!!!). The news last year was devastating. Its the first year since the original Champ Man that I hadn't purchased the game. I did try the mobile version again but it wasn't as in depth as I liked so unfortunate to say I requested a refund (sorry, I realise how much hard work you and your team put into it). Personally I would be happy for an android version every 2 or 3 years with maybe a transfer update when the other versions are released. In fact, I'd still be happy to continue with FMT21 right now, with an updated database. What this has allowed me to do is have the longest save since my Champ Man days, currently coming up to season 10. However, seeing my club completely change their team since then has frustrated me, as I want to try a save with those new players. I do understand the business decision, but I am still disappointed. Thanks for taking the time to explain things.

[Guthrie]

@Marc Vaughan What is the impediment behind targeting a restricted number of Android devices as you previously did for FMT21, etc.? Prior devices on the compatibility list were able to run multiple releases of FMT and as evidenced from the forum users actively purchased devices deemed compatible.

https://www.footballmanager.com/news/fm21-touch-compatible-devices

As the issue here is clearly not a development one it would be good to have a definitive "business decision" answer to conclusively put this recurring Android issue to bed.

As for the current Android alternative of Xbox Game Pass, UI issues aside, it is the streaming requirement that is a major hindrance particularly when for many the entire point of FMT on a mobile device or tablet was the ability to play on the go or when traveling.

Alas it looks like I'll be stuck living out every possible way of keeping FMT21 interesting!

Roll on the inevitable "business decision" of releasing a core game then seasonal data updates, challenges and new leagues, with a new game on a n year development cycle as that's the only hope I have of a viable Android future.

Edited September 18, 2022 by Guthrie
Typo

[Nickg2424]

3 hours ago, freakydancin said:

Fantastic reply @Marc Vaughan, very incitful. I do understand peoples frustrations. I personally have played the game since day 1 (Champ Man). Having being used to the full game for so many years, but then unable to enjoy the game due to time constraints from real life, Touch was the perfect solution. The mobile game is probably the best football manager sim out there but having being used to the full game for so long, it felt like something was missing, Touch filled this void. I actually purchased an android tablet specifically to play FMT21 (don't tell the missus, she thinks it's from work!!!). The news last year was devastating. Its the first year since the original Champ Man that I hadn't purchased the game. I did try the mobile version again but it wasn't as in depth as I liked so unfortunate to say I requested a refund (sorry, I realise how much hard work you and your team put into it). Personally I would be happy for an android version every 2 or 3 years with maybe a transfer update when the other versions are released. In fact, I'd still be happy to continue with FMT21 right now, with an updated database. What this has allowed me to do is have the longest save since my Champ Man days, currently coming up to season 10. However, seeing my club completely change their team since then has frustrated me, as I want to try a save with those new players. I do understand the business decision, but I am still disappointed. Thanks for taking the time to explain things.

Would you or @Marc Vaughan know why I can't access FM Touch 21 anymore on the Google play store?.I paid 20 plus pounds for that game when it came out and now I can't find it anywhere.I agree with what you said also that I would be somewhat OK playing FM21 touch with an updated database but that's not likely to happen is it.

[Marc Vaughan]

5 minutes ago, Nickg2424 said:

Would you or @Marc Vaughan know why I can't access FM Touch 21 anymore on the Google play store?.I paid 20 plus pounds for that game when it came out and now I can't find it anywhere.I agree with what you said also that I would be somewhat OK playing FM21 touch with an updated database but that's not likely to happen is it.

Hi - with al the mobile stores you should be able to access any items purchased through the stores history.

I don't have an android device to hand (I'm watching TV with my wife) - but if I look at googleplay on my macbook then there is 'library and devices' section - moving to that and viewing the 'game' filter I can see all the apps I've ever purchased, even if they are no longer available in the store (including Football Manager Mobile 2013 which is long gone from the store now ).  If you click on one of the items then an 'install on devices' option is available.

PS - Please make sure you are logged into the store, its easy sometimes to accidentally have logged yourself out.

[Nickg2424]

5 minutes ago, Marc Vaughan said:

Hi - with al the mobile stores you should be able to access any items purchased through the stores history.

I don't have an android device to hand (I'm watching TV with my wife) - but if I look at googleplay on my macbook then there is 'library and devices' section - moving to that and viewing the 'game' filter I can see all the apps I've ever purchased, even if they are no longer available in the store (including Football Manager Mobile 2013 which is long gone from the store now ).  If you click on one of the items then an 'install on devices' option is available.

PS - Please make sure you are logged into the store, its easy sometimes to accidentally have logged yourself out.

I know the area of the playstore you mean and I checked it out,FM touch 19 and 20 are there but not 21 for some reason.I will try and locate but it just won't be the same playing with out of date players in teams etc.In the end its just heartbreaking not being able to join in the fun that so many others will be experiencing when the new game comes out.

[freakydancin]

10 hours ago, Nickg2424 said:

Would you or @Marc Vaughan know why I can't access FM Touch 21 anymore on the Google play store?.I paid 20 plus pounds for that game when it came out and now I can't find it anywhere.I agree with what you said also that I would be somewhat OK playing FM21 touch with an updated database but that's not likely to happen is it.

Go to Google play and click your avatar. Then follow this...

Manage apps and device > Manage > change "installed" to "not installed".

The game should be listed here.

Enjoy 😎

Edited September 19, 2022 by freakydancin
Mis spelling

[Keyzer Soze]

17 hours ago, Marc Vaughan said:

I can't go into the business decisions (as that isn't my area), but from a developer perspective I can indicate that making products for Android is very challenging in comparison to most other platforms. This obviously factors into the expense of development and support for those products.

A few reasons behind this:
* Most platforms only have a few OS versions active (very few iOS users aren't running the latest version of the OS, a large amount of android users lag behind the latest versions).
* Most platforms have a finite number of devices supported upon them - for instance on iOS there are a few dozen variants, on Xbox there are maybe a half-dozen. Android has literally thousands of devices which have to be supported. 
* No 'central' OS. Android varies according to the region, manufacturer and device that it is being run upon. This means that code written for one handset might not work upon another handset which is nearly identical in nature. For example on FMM one of the challenges I've had in the past is detecting handsets from certain asian countries which have 8 processors, but only one which has any real 'grunt' behind it, if this is the case it is vital that the game is active within the right processor or the performance is subpar. Ascertaining each of these race conditions and the reasons behind them is incredibly challenging and time consuming because it is impossible for us to have every one of 20,000+ devices available in house. 

I dont get the argument that for android the game must be tested for thousand of different devices.

That could be true for FMM, but for FMT, since day one, there were a list, a very small list, of compatible devices, so in truth it's a similar situation in compare with IOS. Very few devices with very few OS versions. 

So, the main reason should be a simple profit/loss situation. Perhaps with such a small amount of compatible devices, the number of users that have those devices and actually buy the game aren't enough to make the android version sustainable.

I dont know the numbers of games boughts, but i'm sure the IOS numbers must be much higher than the Android numbers, and in the end of the day this is a business that need to make a profit.

 

I was hoping, with the increase of Android deviced (tablets) beeing released in the past two years, and with the investment that some companies were making in the tablet market, the number of compatible devices could increase to a point that the global number of users buying the game for android could justify the release of FMT23 for android. Unfortunately that didn't happen. Perhaps next year....

[Invisible Witness]

Stop bashing Mobile version. The game does what it supposed to do and what's meant to do. Every year it gets deeper and deeper without getting "too deep" so to speak. 2D action is pretty good, informative and realistic in my opinion that you won't find in any other football manager games. It gives you great overview of your tactics how they work and if they work.

At the same time I understand your frustration and because of that decision(no Android version for FMT22) I switched to mobile and it managed to satisfy my needs. That being said I still miss Touch version and might get a laptop for that... 

 

[zakbrown96]

On 19/09/2022 at 22:20, Invisible Witness said:

Stop bashing Mobile version. The game does what it supposed to do and what's meant to do. Every year it gets deeper and deeper without getting "too deep" so to speak. 2D action is pretty good, informative and realistic in my opinion that you won't find in any other football manager games. It gives you great overview of your tactics how they work and if they work.

At the same time I understand your frustration and because of that decision(no Android version for FMT22) I switched to mobile and it managed to satisfy my needs. That being said I still miss Touch version and might get a laptop for that... 

 

@Invisible Witnessyou might like the switch version of touch, would be a lot cheaper than a laptop as well. Might be something to look into.