COUNTDOWN! 0 days to the World Cup

[Coulthard's Jaw]

 

[oche balboa]

What a Bellend David Beckham is 

[Rob1981]

Why is he even doing it  

Can’t need the money. Is he that desperate to stay relevant when it’s World Cup time?

[Coulthard's Jaw]

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/sep/20/workers-qatar-world-cup-football-stadiums-toil-in-debt-and-squalor

At the end of each shift, they are driven for 40 minutes to the edge of the desert, where they are dropped off at a farm belonging to their employer, Al Sulaiteen Agricultural and Industrial Complex (SAIC). Inside, among rows of giant greenhouses, they return to their rooms in small rundown cabins.

Some house three or four workers in single beds, others five or six in bunks, but all those viewed by the Guardian were windowless, cramped and dirty. Towels draped between the upper and lower bunks provide what little privacy there is. Water bottles, cooking utensils and personal belongings are crammed under the beds. Clothes hang on lines strung across the walls. The camp is as squalid as any this journalist has seen in nine years of reporting from Qatar.

[Rob1981]

Barney spot on as always.

[foolsgold]

Completely agree. Like most of us I like to consider myself quite a 'moral' person, I try to do the right thing, but I'm completely undecided on this.

There's no denying that we should all be avoiding this, but then is it possible to watch the tournament without contributing in some way to Qatar, even if only by paying with your attention? It's going to be a tricky one this.

[VamPook]

 

[oche balboa]

61 days ago we was in that heatwave 

[Coulthard's Jaw]

13 hours ago, foolsgold said:

Completely agree. Like most of us I like to consider myself quite a 'moral' person, I try to do the right thing, but I'm completely undecided on this.

There's no denying that we should all be avoiding this, but then is it possible to watch the tournament without contributing in some way to Qatar, even if only by paying with your attention? It's going to be a tricky one this.

The impetus for a boycott should really have come from the national associations. If UEFA as a body refused to take part then you're talking something that would be noticed. On an individual basis am I willing to boycott? Probably not.

[Rob1981]

God, yeah. Judge me if you like but I’ve got enough stress in my life already without turning off the TV for the sports event that I most look forward to. Staging my own one-man protest on the sofa that nobody else can see.

Do I think it should have been moved from Qatar? Yes. Would I personally fly over there and buy tickets? No. But if UEFA aren’t boycotting and national teams aren’t boycotting then I’m not cutting my nose off to spite my face.

[foolsgold]

3 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

God, yeah. Judge me if you like but I’ve got enough stress in my life already without turning off the TV for the sports event that I most look forward to. Staging my own one-man protest on the sofa that nobody else can see.

Do I think it should have been moved from Qatar? Yes. Would I personally fly over there and buy tickets? No. But if UEFA aren’t boycotting and national teams aren’t boycotting then I’m not cutting my nose off to spite my face.

The post wasn't meant to be judgmental in any way btw, just intrigued to hear others thoughts.

[Barry Cartman]

12 hours ago, VamPook said:

 

So Neymar and a bunch of players in Europe who have a couple of goals and assists  

[Rob1981]

2 hours ago, foolsgold said:

The post wasn't meant to be judgmental in any way btw, just intrigued to hear others thoughts.

Dunno, "no denying that we should all be avoiding this" sounds a bit preachy.

I struggle with it but let's be honest club football is rotten to the core as well.  If people thought about it for more than two minutes they wouldn't watch much of that either.  Venture capitalists siphoning billions off while small clubs go out of business and fans are pushed into fuel poverty.  Rogue states bankrolling PL teams while beheading people at home.  And the pundits wring their hands for 48 hours but then it's back to business.  Because, hey, if Newcastle have got all this money then maybe we might get to see Mbappe on Match of the Day next season.

I don't like that it's in Qatar.  But I find a lot of the perfomative "boycott" stuff a bit much as well.  Especially club fans and journos that are complicit in all the rest of it.  And if the governing bodies and the leagues can't object to any of this in a meaningful way... I'm sure as hell not going to do it for them while everyone else has got the game on

Edited September 21, 2022 by Rob1981

[Rob1981]

In other news, somebody at the National League has finally noticed they have arranged an entire programme of midweek games on the same night as a World Cup semi final.

"Fixtures may be moved" now apparently.  God forbid they might have looked at the WC schedule beforehand.

[Weezer]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

I don't like that it's in Qatar.  But I find a lot of the perfomative "boycott" stuff a bit much as well.  Especially club fans and journos that are complicit in all the rest of it.  And if the governing bodies and the leagues can't object to any of this in a meaningful way... I'm sure as hell not going to do it for them while everyone else has got the game on

I'm going and I will enjoy myself while I'm there without feeling like I'm supporting whatever ****** things the Qatari government has been responsible for. 

Most of what you read online from fans claiming their going to boycott it will all come to nothing as soon as the action kicks off. Russia aren't exactly paragons of free speech, democracy and tolerance but I don't seem to remember anybody caring about it while England were on their way to the semi-finals 4 years ago.

If anybody does want to boycott it then more power to them, but I wonder how many claiming they will do will still be watching in November? Just let people enjoy what they want to enjoy, most of us won't survive the winter anyway ffs  

[SouthCoastRed]

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

I'm going and I will enjoy myself while I'm there without feeling like I'm supporting whatever ****** things the Qatari government has been responsible for. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

Just let people enjoy what they want to enjoy, most of us won't survive the winter anyway

So ticket price, offset against November and Decembers heating bills, I reckon you're in profit 

[Lucas]

6 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Dunno, "no denying that we should all be avoiding this" sounds a bit preachy.

I struggle with it but let's be honest club football is rotten to the core as well.  If people thought about it for more than two minutes they wouldn't watch much of that either.  Venture capitalists siphoning billions off while small clubs go out of business and fans are pushed into fuel poverty.  Rogue states bankrolling PL teams while beheading people at home.  And the pundits wring their hands for 48 hours but then it's back to business.  Because, hey, if Newcastle have got all this money then maybe we might get to see Mbappe on Match of the Day next season.

I don't like that it's in Qatar.  But I find a lot of the perfomative "boycott" stuff a bit much as well.  Especially club fans and journos that are complicit in all the rest of it.  And if the governing bodies and the leagues can't object to any of this in a meaningful way... I'm sure as hell not going to do it for them while everyone else has got the game on

You're not wrong.

[foolsgold]

9 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Dunno, "no denying that we should all be avoiding this" sounds a bit preachy.

Alright, why not go ahead and tell me what I meant seeing as you know better than me .

I'm not personally comfortable going to a place built pretty much on slavery so recently, but fair play to those who are. But the fact is, if I or others have that stance, I'd like to know how others justify it before I go ahead and make myself a hypocrite. And as you say, in some cases it's actually hard to distinguish between watching this and watching the EPL. You've made points I absolutely agree with, particularly noting Newcastle fans reacted and behaved post-takeover, so I'm not sure it's 'preachy' whatsoever to want to gather other's opinions (who are usually far more clever than mine!) and make a call from that. If anything it's the absolute opposite.

The only thing I'd disagree with is that any kind of protest is 'performative'. People don't tend to protest for bantz.

Edited September 21, 2022 by foolsgold

[Weezer]

8 hours ago, foolsgold said:

The only thing I'd disagree with is that any kind of protest is 'performative'. People don't tend to protest for bantz.

Virtue signalling is definitely a thing (not suggesting that’s what you’re doing). I don’t call people that were never going to go to the tournament anyway claiming they’re boycotting it, but still watching on TV or down the pub anyway, ‘protesters’. Which is essentially what we’re talking about here.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Weezer

[Rafalution]

14 hours ago, Weezer said:

Just let people enjoy what they want to enjoy, 

the normal second half of this is 'as long as its not hurting anyone else'. not having a go at you or anyone else going over, but the first bit on its own is a bit of a cop-out 'don't judge me' phrase that isn't any different than oche's repeated notion that everyones has a right to an opinion and that this somehow makes them unquestionable or immune to criticism

of course we're all doing it to an extent, whether it be supporting the premier league, or buying stuff that was made under god knows what conditions in east asia, or just the general over-consumption of western lifestyles - but we should be willing to discuss our own failings without trying to excuse them wholesale. 

[Weezer]

3 minutes ago, Rafalution said:

the normal second half of this is 'as long as its not hurting anyone else'. not having a go at you or anyone else going over, but the first bit on its own is a bit of a cop-out 'don't judge me' phrase that isn't any different than oche's repeated notion that everyones has a right to an opinion and that this somehow makes them unquestionable or immune to criticism

of course we're all doing it to an extent, whether it be supporting the premier league, or buying stuff that was made under god knows what conditions in east asia, or just the general over-consumption of western lifestyles - but we should be willing to discuss our own failings without trying to excuse them wholesale. 

And like you said, where do you stop with that? We’re all guilty of turning a blind eye to human suffering in pursuit of our own enjoyment and consumerism. I don’t think attempting to make individuals feel bad for enjoying a football tournament is going to change anything.

[Rafalution]

My point is only that we shouldn't try to shut down conversation on where the line should be drawn, which is what phrases like 'let people enjoy what they want to enjoy' do.

You've also done the common thing of downplaying and dismissing the actions of boycotters as virtue signalling or hypocritical which is always prevalent when ever anyone is trying to justify something questionable. There were definitely plenty of people speaking out against it being in russia. there are definitely plenty of people who will be boycotting the tournament and not watching it down the pub. 

We can accept our own failings without dismissing the actions of those who are trying to do the right thing

Quote

 I don’t think attempting to make individuals feel bad for enjoying a football tournament is going to change anything.

i also don't agree with this, a lot of change is tiny and incremental and comes precisely from making people feel bad about (or not even feel bad about, just bringing up there opposing view)  and therefore question their actions. 

i feel like we can have a conversation about whether its okay to go to Qatar for this tournament without vilifying those individuals who are doing so. I think the former is helpful and and the latter isn't. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Rafalution

[Weezer]

That’s not me shutting down a conversation. That’s me adding my two pennies. Debate it all you want.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

Are you going to feel a bit gross being physically in stadia that people have died building?

Edited September 22, 2022 by Coulthard's Jaw

[Weezer]

38 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Are you going to feel a bit gross being physically in stadia that people have died building?

I’m not going to feel personally responsible for it, no.

[Weezer]

That doesn’t mean I’m not sympathetic to what those people went through or support it, but I’ve been to lots of places in the world that have been built on the deaths of others or have done ****** things in their past. I don’t think that means you’re supporting them.

[Rob1981]

I'm going to keep counting down the days in the thread title btw.  Don't care how annoying it gets with the endless "Rob1981 changed the title" messages

They ought to sell reverse advent calendars for the World Cup.  Every morning you wake up and it's one day less and you open a window with a WC photo from yesteryear.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

11 minutes ago, Weezer said:

That doesn’t mean I’m not sympathetic to what those people went through or support it, but I’ve been to lots of places in the world that have been built on the deaths of others or have done ****** things in their past. I don’t think that means you’re supporting them.

This is a very specific event though isn't it? Very wealthy owners have built a bunch of stadia specifically for this World Cup (think most of them are going to be dismantled or relocated straight afterwards?) using extremely unethical methods. I think in this case people do end up directly supporting these methods if they travel there and actually use these stadia and spend money in this country.

[Coulthard's Jaw]

11 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

I'm going to keep counting down the days in the thread title btw.  Don't care how annoying it gets with the endless "Rob1981 changed the title" messages

They ought to sell reverse advent calendars for the World Cup.  Every morning you wake up and it's one day less and you open a window with a WC photo from yesteryear.

Well be advent calendars in the shops, buy one and adapt it  

[Rob1981]

28 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

I think in this case people do end up directly supporting these methods if they travel there and actually use these stadia

Dunno, that's a bit of a stretch.  They haven't put the WC in Qatar because of market demand.  If people were clamouring to go there and watch a tournament and they'd then awarded the host country for that reason then you might have a point.  But once they've chosen the venue the building work is happening whether people turn up and watch or not.  And match going fans are so far down their list of priorities they won't care whether the stadiums even get filled.

Is it much different to Arsenal/Chelsea fans going to Baku for the Europa League final?  Or Chelsea fans going to UAE for the World Club Cup?  People aren't making a free choice to holiday in these places.  They are going for the football because they to watch the football.  And they are going in spite of the venue that's been chosen, not because of it.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Rob1981

[Gricehead]

1 hour ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

Are you going to feel a bit gross being physically in stadia that people have died building?

By that logic, don't catch a train in the UK.

[Weezer]

9 minutes ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

This is a very specific event though isn't it? Very wealthy owners have built a bunch of stadia specifically for this World Cup (think most of them are going to be dismantled or relocated straight afterwards?) using extremely unethical methods. I think in this case people do end up directly supporting these methods if they travel there and actually use these stadia and spend money in this country.

Well, if you want to be really horrified it’s not just the World Cup stadiums, it’s the whole region. We know those numbers because it’s a big event and has been reported as such. But all these new cities that have sprung up around the Middle East will have been the same.

[Weezer]

27 minutes ago, Rob1981 said:

They are going for the football because they to watch the football.  And they are going in spite of the venue that's been chosen, not because of it.

There’s an element of that too. I’d rather the World Cup wasn’t in Qatar, but it is so that’s where I’m going. Also my girlfriend works there so I will be visiting the place anyway, football or not.

[Yuko]

22 hours ago, Coulthard's Jaw said:

The impetus for a boycott should really have come from the national associations. If UEFA as a body refused to take part then you're talking something that would be noticed. On an individual basis am I willing to boycott? Probably not.

Why would UEFA be against this when their main source of income, ie Champions League, is funded indirectly by this kind of regimes?

[Barry Cartman]

On 01/09/2022 at 00:01, Coulthard's Jaw said:

 

What a difference a few weeks make

Queue-washing? 

[pearcey_90]

3 hours ago, Rob1981 said:

Dunno, that's a bit of a stretch.  They haven't put the WC in Qatar because of market demand.  If people were clamouring to go there and watch a tournament and they'd then awarded the host country for that reason then you might have a point.  But once they've chosen the venue the building work is happening whether people turn up and watch or not.  And match going fans are so far down their list of priorities they won't care whether the stadiums even get filled.

Is it much different to Arsenal/Chelsea fans going to Baku for the Europa League final?  Or Chelsea fans going to UAE for the World Club Cup?  People aren't making a free choice to holiday in these places.  They are going for the football because they to watch the football.  And they are going in spite of the venue that's been chosen, not because of it.

It’ll be how they showcase the fans being there. It’ll be shown/framed as 10000s of thousands are coming to this fabulous country, book a holiday next year to come and explore/relax in Qatar and make it seem the norm for people to go there, same as people go to Dubai.

[Rob1981]

BBC getting in on the act with a ‘50 days to go’ video:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/63098359

I thought this was going to kickstart 50 daily clips counting down with a different goal on BBC Sport each day. Sadly not. They’ve just stuck the last 50 England goals into the same VT, then gone back to talking about Brighton or Leicester or whoever.

That said, you do get to see Darren Anderton pinging that goal in against Colombia.

[Rob1981]

Do we need to start making a list of any big players that are going to be missing? Any high profile injuries I’ve not picked up on?

[Yuko]

Should I be hyped about this? 

I almost don't even care. And I just realized today that I have booked a flight on the day of the final and not even sure if I'll arrive on time to catch it. 

[oche balboa]

47 days ago was Thursday, 18 August.  West Ham beat Viborg 3-1 

[decapitated]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/oct/04/ukraine-to-bid-for-2030-mens-football-world-cup-with-spain-and-portugal?

 

Ukraine to join Spain and Portugal's 2030 world cup bid.

[Rob1981]

Spain and Portugal going for the sympathy vote then. Just bolt another country in even though they are nowhere near either other.

[Baptista_8]

On 21/09/2022 at 01:38, VamPook said:

Some good depth there now.

[craigcwwe]

7 hours ago, decapitated said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/oct/04/ukraine-to-bid-for-2030-mens-football-world-cup-with-spain-and-portugal?

 

Ukraine to join Spain and Portugal's 2030 world cup bid.

Saw that earlier, ridiculous. Going for the sympathy vote. 

[Weezer]

Got tickets to the England-Wales game, should be a good one. Hopefully not like the last England group game I went to against Costa Rica when we were already out, drew a turgid 0-0 and started Phil Jones.

[oche balboa]

46 days ago 

Albion recorded their only victory of the season against Hull, winning 5-2 

 

[Rob1981]

 

[oche balboa]

45 days ago 

 

Manchester United shocked English Football beating Liverpool 2-1, After everyone expected them to lose heavy after being walloped by Brentford the week before. 

[Barry Cartman]

Neville working for Bein at the World Cup, but defending himself saying he isn't a hypocrite 

 

[oche balboa]

Just now, Barry Cartman said:

Neville working for Bein at the World Cup, but defending himself saying he isn't a hypocrite 

 

What a prat